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quote:Originally posted by PA Shootist
The tone of this forum reflects the tone of the moderator
Another prime example of a new member, coming into the forum ranting and raving, that DOES NOT HAVE A CLUE.
FYI. I came into this forum, UNEDUCATED. It was the members that were/are here, that set the tone, not I. Some of those members have long since departed these forums. Admittedly I was already "leaning" a bit. But my initial reaction, especially to what I was hearing about my beloved NRA, was...shall we say, NOT what I wanted to hear.
I read, I questioned, I investigated, I learned. After a while, and a LOT of reading, I was willing to admit that, maybe -- just maybe, "I" was the one who had been WRONG for so many years, and that "quite possibly" they were RIGHT. Maybe MY NRA didn't deserve to be on the pedestal I had placed them on. My "tone" changed over the years, as I became more educated, I found myself falling more in line with this forum. But you just keep right on making any "claim" that floats your boat.
It NEVER EVEN OCCURRED to me, to try to PREVENT anyone from presenting their opinions, ideas, and/or facts. No matter whether I agreed with it or not. As long as they stayed within the posting guidelines.unlike "some" who WOULD repress the free expression of opinions, ideas, and/or facts.if given half a chance.as proofed by the (not so) veiled threats.
To actually read, that because someone does not like what is being said, someone wants to STOP ANYONE ELSE from BEING ABLE to say it??? I won't even begin to draw the parallels, associating this kind of mentality, to other regimes throughout history. Will we all be invited to the book burnings?
I'll let the readers draw their own conclusions, concerning ANY member(s) who ADVOCATES this kind of CENSORSHIP and/or SUPPRESSION of ideas and/or information. To WANT TO STIFLE ONE SIDE of ANYTHING, simply because someone DOES NOT AGREE with it??? [:0][:0][:0]
Highball
Sure would like to know where you are spending all your money to help the cause. I sure would like to contribute. So who or what or where do I send my check?
pickenup:quote:It NEVER EVEN OCCURRED to me, to try to PREVENT anyone from presenting their opinions, ideas, and/or facts. No matter whether I agreed with it or not. As long as they stayed within the posting guidelines.unlike "some" who WOULD repress the free expression of opinions, ideas, and/or facts.if given half a chance.as proofed by the (not so) veiled threats.
To actually read, that because someone does not like what is being said, someone wants to STOP ANYONE ELSE from BEING ABLE to say it??? I won't even begin to draw the parallels, associating this kind of mentality, to other regimes throughout history. Will we all be invited to the book burnings?
I'll let the readers draw their own conclusions, concerning ANY member(s) who ADVOCATES this kind of CENSORSHIP and/or SUPPRESSION of ideas and/or information. To WANT TO STIFLE ONE SIDE of ANYTHING, simply because someone DOES NOT AGREE with it??? I can attest to every word of that statement(s)!! The rules are few and quite clear. Remain within those guidelines and no problem!! There are some that just find rules to cumbersome, try to push them to the limit or just consider themselves above it all. IMHO your enforcement has been absolute and CONSISTANT during my entire tenure. FWIW: I think you do a great job on this forum and thank you for your patience and service to the forum. It must be trying, to say the least, at times.
USA
82 Posts
Posted - 04/10/2008 : 01:28:01 AM
Highball
Sure would like to know where you are spending all your money to help the cause. I sure would like to contribute. So who or what or where do I send my check?
Sorry...I don't need your kind. Please continue to send your money to the NRA. Weakening the hard core with such as you isn't in the cards.
He doesn't need it...but Pickenup gets my vote as an excellent moderator.
He and I had our hard words, when he came aboard.
The difference between him and the Slumlords (despicable name, bty), TRfoxes, ect. was...he tried really hard to dig out the information to refute what some of us were saying.
The more he dug.the uglier the information, the more damning it got.for the NRA.
He did the research, in other words ..unlike 99% of you followers.
quote:Originally posted by slumlord44
Highball
Sure would like to know where you are spending all your money to help the cause. I sure would like to contribute. So who or what or where do I send my check?
slumlord44, if I may:
If you are serious, may I suggest you look into the GOA? For a simple $ 500.00 Life Membership, you can support an organization that, among many other things, generates and distributes reasoned and thoughtful reports such as the following:
Perhaps you would may consider the following words, taken from the report linked below as well.
Indeed we do. GOA's brief says:
[T]he argument that "the right of the people" is subject to reasonable regulation and restriction tramples on the very words of the Second Amendment, reading the phrase -- "shall not be infringed" -- as if it read "shall be subject only to reasonable regulation to achieve public safety."
"Public safety" is frequently a canard that tyrants hide behind to justify their oppressive policies. Writing in USA Today, our attorneys Herbert Titus and William Olson stated:
No government deprives its citizens of rights without asserting that its actions are "reasonable" and "necessary" for high-sounding reasons such as "public safety." A right that can be regulated is no right at all, only a temporary privilege dependent upon the good will of the very government officials that such right is designed to constrain.
Can you even see such a statement coming out of the NRA? No, you cannot. You cannot because the NRA, though many are well-intentioned, have adopted the very notion that the 2nd is a right that can be regulated. The NRA has chosen to work with the system to further ingrain this notion in the hearts and minds of 10s and 100s of millions of Americans. The GOA indeed shines the light of truth regarding the RKBA, and many in the NRA are found scurrying away.
That being said, each and every citizen needs to do what they believe to the best for them and for their belief system, and support those organizations that are worth supporting. For me, it is being a life member of the GOA.
Freedom and a submissive populace cannot co-exist.
quote: Origianlly posted by tr foxDo the math. Gun owners are in the minority in America
Huh? It has been pointed out hundreds of times here on GB, but why not try again?
90 million gunowners in America.
How is that a minority when only aprox. 110 million people vote?
Gunowners I would say, are easily the largest interest group EVER! Show me a larger one tr. Show me how we are a minority with 90 million members as of last potus election.
quote:I say that if we can get any form of support from moderates/quislings/whatever you wish to call them, we take it. This is not about morals, principles, or beliefs. This is about survival. The survival of the principles that we are 'hardline' about. And even if it survives in a weakened state, I still find that to be better than seeing them die completely.
Death is still death and it is complete whether it is slow and practically un-noticed, or fast and noticeable.
That's what you limp wristed compromisers don't seem to get.
USA
82 Posts
Posted - 04/08/2008 : 12:20:56 AM
Tr Fox
I am one of the few who participate in this forum that prety much agrees with you 100%. Talk is cheap. I spend a little of my cash to help the cause. Many of the so called hardliners do nothing but blow a lot of hot air. A lot of these guys talk tough but when the men with badges and guns come to there door to confiscate their guns, how many will have the gonads to resist?
Follow the sell-out of the NRA to it's sister, the fed govt, to it's LOGICAL CONCLUSION, fool. (If you are capable) When/if you reach that point in your thought process, come to the realization that money wasted on the NRA would be better spent on ammo.
quote:Have bought a couple guns in the past year. I own my own business and in MO you can have a gun at work( if you own it) , at home, in your tent, mobile home etc, and in your vehicle without a CCW. Was thinking about getting one anyways. They have actually made the CCW and gun buying laws easier now. You used to be forced to go to a local sheriff and fill out a form which was mailed in and couple weeks go by and you pay them a permit fee and then you get to buy a single gun. Now they just call it in to make sure you are legal and you buy a gun on the spot. My last gun purchase took about 2 or maybe 3 minutes to call in and get confirmed. Very nice improvement in MO law recently.
Ah yes, that makes infringement much more acceptable. I suppose the NRA won that battle for you? (Don't fight the battles yourself, after all you paid $25 to have someone do it for you)[xx(]
I have not posted over here for some time now, but I still do read!
This is an argument that will never be totally solved, nor agreed on totally. I may not post much, but I guess I am one of the "hardliners."
I see the second amendment very clearly,.....it is a right, and not to be watered down by thousands of "feel good" laws, that have turned it into nothing but a privilege.
It was also the backbone of the entire Constitution, as without it, we would be no better off than the original men who tired of England's tyranny, and created this once great nation.
The NRA is what it is,..they should have stuck to what they were founded for, which was for the purpose of training in the proper use of firearms.
I am in a situation as we speak at the private range I belong to. NRA membership by the primary member is mandatory.
There are a number of us that are not renewing our NRA memberships, of which I am one. I have been told that as of November when it expires that I will no longer be able to come there any longer.
It is a private facility, and I understand they have the right to make their own rules, but I will not be blackmailed into contributing to an organization that I do not believe in.
Unless we can get them to accept GOA as a substitute, I will no longer have a close, and convenient place to shoot. So be it!
My own mother, while she was never "anti-gun", used to be concerned about the number of firearms, and the types. I would get the typical questions like, "Why do you need to own assault rifles, and multiple auto handguns",..and "Why do you have so much ammo?"
I explained over the years, the importance of the second amendment, and what is was meant for. Finally she came to the clear understanding of it, and often mentions about our gun rights when we speak. She knows they are one of the main things guaranteeing our freedom. She owns a gun, and knows how to use it also!
The other plus is,...I no longer get all of the questions, only speeches about I better be watching out for my rights!
I have played the game of "kneeling" for my CCW permit, and the NICS checks,..I do not do it out of servitude, I do it to keep myself as a free man, able to protect my family, and myself, and also to be available should the worst scenario we can imagine happen. I abide by it with "disgust"!
On the subject of the Mod's,..Pickenup, is as fair as can be. He jumped my case once, but it was my fault, as I was violating the TOS of this site.
He was simply doing his "unpaid" job, and this IS a privately owned forum with rules.
Sorry my comments didn't add much of value,..but I do not have lt496's oratory skills!
"Beam me up Scotty, there's no intelligent life down here." - William Shatner
To you "hardliners", may I say, I am proud to know you. I prefer to chat with people that "get it", rather than to talk with people who don't. Even though we may not know each other by faces, we know each other by principals. I would share a foxhole with you guys any day.
Pickenup, Though I may not make much mention of it, you do an excellent job. I know I have pushed your buttons once or twice, but you are ALLWAYS fair, and do you job right. If GB ever DID pay you mods, I would hope you get the biggest lump sum, as you deserve it. I apprecaite your hard work.
Highball
Man, you sure do not play well with others. Do not get your problem with my user name. Using your logic one could assume that you are a drug addict. That would explain a lot. But I guess you know what happens when you assume something. Since you will not name an orginization, there must not be one. The great thing about this country is that we can disagree. If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem.
Don,
I am looking at GOA. Not sure yet. No restrictions would be great, but this not going to happen and would probably create as many problems as it would fix. It is sad that so many of us who support the 2nd ammendment can't even agree to be civil to each other. Sadly, much of what I see here is not a civil discussion.
quote:Originally posted by slumlord44
Highball
Man, you sure do not play well with others. Do not get your problem with my user name. Using your logic one could assume that you are a drug addict. That would explain a lot. But I guess you know what happens when you assume something. Since you will not name an orginization, there must not be one. The great thing about this country is that we can disagree. If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem.
Don,
I am looking at GOA. Not sure yet. No restrictions would be great, but this not going to happen and would probably create as many problems as it would fix.
It is sad that so many of us who support the 2nd ammendment can't even agree to be civil to each other. Sadly, much of what I see here is not a civil discussion.
Your own comment that no restrictions on firearms would probably create as many problems as it would fix, does not reconcile with your claim that you support the "2nd ammendment" (your spelling).
Even if problems were created by "no government restrictions", that is exactly what Amendment II says and what it clearly means, e.g. no government restrictions.
How then do you explain your NRA support and your expressed support of the "trfox" position, at 100% I must add?
Both of those things, supported by you, are contrary to Amendment II as it is written.
Could it be that you, like tr, fail to grasp the meaning of Amendment II, or that you understand it, but willingly and readily accept unconstitutional government regulation (read infringement) on the RTKBA?
How then are you a supporter of the "2nd ammendment" (your spelling, not mine)?
Highball,It495 I am interested in the techniques you have found to be successfull in changing the restrictive laws of the 2nd? Which laws have you had success/input in changing?
Perhaps it might be better to share your secrects with me and others than to ridicule those who are unaware of them. To many the NRA has a false image of supporting guns rights. I almost fell into that years ago but decided to do my homework before joining. I'm glad I did and have never been a member and never will be. However it seems to me you guys have a method from reading your posts for fighting "big brother" why not share it with others instead of slaming the door in our face claiming you need no help. Together we stand divided we fall...remember? Or is your method some type of paranoid Stalinistic purge for all those who you think are against your beliefs? I can't help thinking this, the way you guys belittle every person that isn't in line with your exact thoughts. Have you ever been wrong in your life? Have you learned from your mistakes? with help from someone else? Well lets give others that same chance instead of condeming them from the word go.
Reading this thread really makes me think you guys have lost all compassion for those who have accepted the fact that government restriction of the 2nd will never be completely eliminated. Yet every time we go to buy a firearm we all bow to whatever restrictions have been placed on them in order to aquire them. No, none of us like it and we all make different excuses for abiding by the restrictions as to not alter our fundamental ego's of being staunch constitutionalists.
quote:Originally posted by Hunter Mag
Highball,It495 I am interested in the techniques you have found to be successfull in changing the restrictive laws of the 2nd? Which laws have you had success/input in changing?
Although I can see that your questions are designed to paint a negative picture of Highball and I, I will at this point answer this question in general.
First, "I" have not been successful in changing restrictive laws. I am one man. One man who votes, who writes his representatives (and others) prolifically, one who stays informed, one who has addressed the legislature, one who has attempted to live his life as a free man, one who has adopted a somewhat "confrontational" style of identifying and pointing out government actions that are predatory, restrictive or unconstitutional, both on-line and in my daily life. Also one who has gravitated to groups who support Amendment II in a "no-compromise" fashion such as GOA and JPFO.
About all a man can legally do, at least in my particular circumstance, is to attempt to have others at least confront their positions and those of government in the bright light of day and hope that they think about their beliefs and government's actions in a new light.
Is that okay with you Hunter?
Perhaps it might be better to share your secrects with me and others than to ridicule those who are unaware of them.
Gee Hunter, there is no big "secret" it is called the US Constitution and its Bill of Rights, you should read it some time.
Another part of the big "secret" is called "rugged individualism" and "individual liberty", two concepts that seem lost on many of the New Americans.
As far as ridicule of those unaware of them....I generally don't "ridicule" the ignorant, usually just smart-* like you who seem to display a willful disregard of the above, or at least seem to attempt to paint some "off-base", "paranoid" picture of those who speak about freedom.[;)]
To many the NRA has a false image of supporting guns rights. I almost fell into that years ago but decided to do my homework before joining. I'm glad I did and have never been a member and never will be.
Hooray for you Hunter. You seem to be on the right track.
Nice move, but did you join a group that does lobby, does attempt to kill unconstitutional legislation? Perhaps the GOA, or JPFO, or Second Ammendment Foundation?
However it seems to me you guys have a method from reading your posts for fighting "big brother" why not share it with others instead of slaming the door in our face claiming you need no help.
My "method" is described above. Can't speak for others.
To do nothing, or to advocate acceptance of a predatory government's actions (or at least parts of those actions), or to denigrate those speaking out for freedom, well, that seems counterproductive to the goal of restoring the Republic, which is what my focus is on.
To attempt to wake people up to the reality of government actions and their own actions and beliefs, and to hold up the "yardstick" of individual liberty and the Constitution to measure those actions/positions, that seems a "method" of having people rethink their positions (potentially) and those of government actions....I have something like a "paradigm shift" in mind.
Together we stand divided we fall...remember?
Speaking for myself, I don't want to "stand" with those who either fail to grasp constitutional concepts, or who willfully disregard them. Nor do I choose to "stand" with individuals who willingly accept or advocate for government intrusions into fundamental rights.
To do so would weaken the "cause" and dilute the message IMO.
Or is your method some type of paranoid Stalinistic purge for all those who you think are against your beliefs? I can't help thinking this, the way you guys belittle every person that isn't in line with your exact thoughts.
Well Hunter, you are indeed entitled to your opinion, but to equate passionate advocacy for individual freedom and the restoration of America's Constitutional Republic with some "Stalinistic" (read oppressive/suppressive) activity, well, that places you into a category of quasi if not outright idiocy.
Ooops, there I go belittling again, right? Well sir, you earned it with that cheap shot.
I think that if you do a bit of simple "re-reading" of my posts, you may find an occasional "idiot" comment thrown at someone who said something really, really stupid....see above; but rather you will primarily see forceful, impassioned advocacy for and an attempt to have others see clearly, the issues of individual liberty relating to the US Constitution and spirit of "rugged individualism"....you know, the old attempt by me of a "paradigm shift", or at least a reexamination of views and beliefs for some.
Have you ever been wrong in your life? Have you learned from your mistakes? with help from someone else? Well lets give others that same chance instead of condeming them from the word go.
Again you are ascribing motive and actions to me that are simply not there. Of course I've made mistakes and learned from them. Most humans have.
Again, speaking only for myself, I merely attempt to open eyes and challenge some people's traditional "way of thinking" about freedom and government.
THAT is helping others who may need it Hunter. Don't you think?
Reading this thread really makes me think you guys have lost all compassion for those who have accepted the fact that government restriction of the 2nd will never be completely eliminated.
X-ring Hunter!
I have indeed lost ALL compassion and tolerance for those who accept and/or concede that Amendment II, in its true form, has been lost, never to be returned.
Yet every time we go to buy a firearm we all bow to whatever restrictions have been placed on them in order to aquire them. No, none of us like it and we all make different excuses for abiding by the restrictions as to not alter our fundamental ego's of being staunch constitutionalists.
Yes, we all live under the heel of a predatory government in this area. Yes we all "bow" in a figurative sense to the government when we do so.
The difference, at least in my eyes, is that many willing accept it and have conceded the issue, IF they even ever questioned it to begin with.
This is the dividing line for me reference individuals. You see, I firmly believe that this is the real battle ground, the battleground of ideas and beliefs.
If we citizens can not even grasp the concept of freedom and constitutional government, how then are we to ever turn the tide?
THAT is why I advocate as I do.
I have a modest skill of "written" "oratory". That is something that I take full advantage of when I see it may do some good.
One final point. I generally post these windy replies, not so much for the one being replied to, but primarily for those who may read it and who may then "think" about the issue from a "impersonal, non-involved" position.
Paradigm shift Hunter, paradigm shift. THAT is the ball I keep my eye on.
Our good Captain has the carrot..the well reasoned, civilized approach to educating people about the Second. He reserves the stick for the hopelessly brain-dead..
I am the stick.
I INTEND slapping people across the face .infuriating them. That tells me if there is still a scant trace of blood left in their veins.or if every bit of courage has been sucked out of them by the Beast.
If they are a Man ..they will cool off and think about what is being said .. if for no other reason then they tire of being beaten about the head and shoulders with facts they cannot dispute..
Many of them are forced to actually THINK.for perhaps the first time in their lives.
A thinking man is soon to be a friend.
Only those hopelessly brain-dead can continue to hold up the NRA position as being "Second Amendment Supporting"..for nothing can be father from the truth then that.
"Play well with others".Indeed. Were this a game ..I might attach a bit of credulity to this statement.
NOT a game.but a deadly serious series of maneuvers designed to subvert and destroy America, by the Elites.THAT is the endgame of gun control.
I do not want weak-kneed craven cowards speaking for me .nor defining my position.
I see no point in attempting to `rollback' ANY one or two gun laws any more..and waste no time at all attempting it. They have encroached on freedom in so many areas, even a
LIFETIME of work could gain us naught.
Joining any group today `fighting for the Second Amendment' is counterproductive, in my opinion ..for the truth is, we are losing in EVERY sector of Society.
My study of history tells me that there reaches a point in a declining culture there is little chance to right things by conventional means. I believe we have reached and passed that point.
I advocate nothing except education of as many as possible.and preparing for the worst.
I DO NOT ADVOCATE VIOLENCE.
I advocate being prepared to REPEL violence.for it is coming at us like a fright train.
I am still shocked at the number of folks that don't seem to be able to understand the words "shall not be infringed."
If you do not understand that phrase,.......please, look it up in the dictionary!
I am also amazed at the number of gun owners that I personally know, that do not understand why I wish to own AR's, and AK's, and why I have ammunition stocked by the case for them.
I am friendly with them, but always get a small feeling that some of them think I am a bit of a "nutcase."
Nothing could be further from the truth,.......I have never had a run-in with the "authorities" in my life, nor do I dream of being able to kill an intruder one day.
I simply plan for needs,.....enjoy shooting, and USING my second amendment rights![;)]
"Beam me up Scotty, there's no intelligent life down here." - William Shatner
It496 I agree with 90% of your post but don't have enough time to reply to all of it. Thank you! That's two words we don't much around here...at least not together.LOL
Just to clairify since it's too easy to assume most don't know what the 2nd means.
I am a firm believer in the 2nd. However there's still a small part of me that thinks if someone like Charles(and this is an extreme example)Manson were paroled he certainly should not be given the right to have a gun. He should be given many things which I wount elaborate on but not a gun. Yes I know this is against the 2nd but that's the way I feel about it. Right or wrong I'm being honest here and it wouldn't be right if I wasn't.
Now that the chips are on the table the government/lawmakers are the ones that don't understand what the 2nd is/means. But you guys know that. The government does whats best for the government but I'm not sure they can even do that.
They just find a particular group that's in line with whatever laws/restrictions they're in favor of and go with that.
To me your example of Charles Manson creates a large problem.
First off, he should never be released, and should have been put to death, IMHO.
Here is where the problem comes in!
Say he was released one day,.......not put on parole, as I personally consider a felon on parole, as still serving their sentence, and part of their punishment.
In that case, I do not believe his rights should be restored.
If a felon has served the sentence, and is released, and no longer on parole,......whether I personally like the idea or not, I say they should get their rights back.
At that point, they have served their entire sentence, and should now be considered a free man. If that is not the intent of the legal system, they should still be in the big house.
Where the real problem lies, is in the courts not using the myriad of laws that we already have to eliminate these types. They are given "light" sentences constantly, and often serve 1/3 of the time sentenced.
Remember,......most felons are simple "drug" offenders. While I have never dabbled with illegal drugs many have, and have been convicted for it. One of my best friends served time when he was young.
He has turned his life into a "model" for others, and I helped him get his record expunged so that he could get his right to own firearms back.
I do not feel the least bit bad for doing that, and have no fear that he will ever hurt an innocent citizen because of it.
The folks that are truly dangerous need to be kept locked up, or gotten rid of,.........unfortunately that often is not the case.[xx(]
A free man, is a free man,.......and should have all of their rights back. It is a price we have to pay, to maintain the integrity of our Constitution.
"Beam me up Scotty, there's no intelligent life down here." - William Shatner
Agreed. Plus an unrestricted RTKBA for everyone would in all probability prove to be a deterrent to any former con wishing to do mischief with a firearm he obtained.
Live your truth. Support JPFO, GOA, your state GO league and think long and hard about your next move when your door gets kicked in at 3AM despite what uniform or lack of it is displayed on the other side.
To respond, it hasn't been..yet. But I read accounts about fouled up warrants and innocents being caught in the crossfire by government agencies. Ex spouses with vendettas spreading misinformation. And drug and alcohol induced hoodlums looking for an easy score. I think we need to maintain the mindset to know how we intend to react to adversity before it happens.
tr fox sounds as if those who back the second 100% and do not accept compromise as being a hardliner. He also thinks that since the hardliners (PATRIOTIC AMERICANS) are a minority we can not retain our GOD given rights unless we can convince the majority (dumba** liberals) we deserve them. From what I understand AMERICA was NOT founded as a democracy (mob rule) but America IS founded as a Constitutional Republic (rule of law) so just because a majority of dumba** liberals thinks we no longer need one of our rights it does NOT grant them the authority to take it away. Our founders knew that a democracy would be self destructive and in time will take away any rights and freedoms the people have. THIS IS WHY AMERICA IS A FOUNDED AS A REPUBLIC. It is too bad so few people know this.
quote:Originally posted by triple223tap
He also thinks that since the hardliners (PATRIOTIC AMERICANS) are a minority we can not retain our GOD given rights
God gave you the right to own guns? Really? Chapter, verse?
LMAO!!!
As you well know, the unalienable right refered to as the RTKBA, is about the ability to defend self, family, country and others, or to replace a tyrannical government if necessary.
Swords, sticks, spears, whatever...all, according to the time in history, fit the bill and you know it.
You simply can't help showing your *, can you?
Do you even understand the meaning of "Unalienable Right", "God-given Right", or "Natural Right"?
I thought not.
Well, they are "entitlements" gifted upon everyone by being alive.
Government doesn't grant them and government cannot take them away. All government can do is attempt to restrict them and make it a crime for one to exercise them.....or, as in the case of our Constitutional Republic, government can be formed to secure those rights.
They exist regardless.
Needless to say triple, folks like you are the reason that our government has strayed from their duty to secure those rights and morphed into the predatory state that it now is.
quote:Originally posted by triple223tap
He also thinks that since the hardliners (PATRIOTIC AMERICANS) are a minority we can not retain our GOD given rights
God gave you the right to own guns? Really? Chapter, verse?
Since "God" isn't really responsible for "chapter and verse", your question has no "chapter and verse" answer.
However, your Right to Self Defense exists on a basic animal level. Even cute little bunnies will fight to survive.
Humans are Tool Users. We do not have tooth and claw - the animals' weapons.
By restricting or denying me the tools of Self Defense, you are denying me the MEANS of self defense. You are saying that my LIFE is not worth Defending. That it is WORTH LESS than the lives of those who are "allowed" to use tools.
When any entity - be it person, religion or Government - starts saying, implicitly or explicitly, that the lives of some people are WORTHLESS, then they have created the cachet to begin the wholesale killing.
oh GOD does feel good to be back from the field and back with family[:D]... highball... it's good to see that the "stick" is still sharp and ready for thrusting, and is in the hands of a skilled individual.[xx(] at this point in the argument, i see no need in trying to prove or declare my "hard line" stance on the situation at hand. many of you here know where i stand. i am very sick and tired of topics such as this starting just to provoke us into trying to make ourselves look like the bad guy.[}:)] Maybe possibly some good comes out of discussions such as this one, but there are two "hard lines" here. Ours and theirs, neither one will break easily, and i can guarantee mine will not be the first. On the positive note, i just got paid today and, and mailed off my check to GOA for my life membership. also had a few "converts" while i was out in the field. it was truly a blessing to see other young soldiers such as myself come to the full understanding of "uphold and defend the Constitution of the United States of America and to defend it from ALL enemies foreign and domestic". it was truly beautiful.
Aaron;
Welcome back..been missing your posts.
Congratulations on your positive actions relating to continued freedoms here in America.
My personal opinion is that educating a half-dozen young warriours about what REAL freedom means is more valuble then another 100 missions dreamed up by crooked politicians....designed to increase their power and billfold.
You make an interesting point.." Two Hardlines". I need to process that a bit. Generally, when I hear the "We gotta have gun control" crowd speak, I get the mental picture of Casper Milktoasts type 'man'...eagerly awaiting the government to step in and protect them from all imagined ills...
At this point, I believe that there is no feasible hope for making people realize the tyrannical control that the government already exerts. At least not by using firearms laws.
But I believe that medicare is something that would make the situation much more clear.
Not 20 years ago, surgeries, medications, and even cancer treatments would not break an average family. Now, it costs people everything they own.
Doctors are effectively guaranteed exorbitant amounts of money for their services, given this guarantee by the federal government's regulations on health insurance and medicare. They have no need to make their services affordable, and the government certainly uses that to full advantage.
ALL of the presidential candidates use medicare as a campaign issue. None of them will do anything to fix it. Hillary for one intends to put every single American under the yoke by making it mandatory. This is nothing more than blackmail. They're demanding votes and power, in exchange for medicine and services that some people need to live. There are people already convinced that they cannot survive without money from the government, because they need medicine. This handout keeps them in line.
We can expect to see a trend of gradually criminalizing small business, the same way firearms ownership has been. Big companies are run by those that want more money and power, and are easily kept in the pocket of politicians who can grant more money and power. Small businesses are run by those who wish to be independent, the natural enemy of these tyrants. There's already an increase in the trend of thinking that one would need money from the government in order to START a small business.
None of this has anything to do with firearms. It still has everything to do with tyranny.
Even if these people won't demand the return of gun rights in so many words, they can still be convinced to reject the control of those that are our enemies.
quote:Originally posted by triple223tap
He also thinks that since the hardliners (PATRIOTIC AMERICANS) are a minority we can not retain our GOD given rights
God gave you the right to own guns? Really? Chapter, verse?
LMAO!!!
Trust me, we aren't laughing WITH you. I'm not quite sure why you are still allowed in this forum; if you could debate, I'd enjoy reading your posts and responding but you're just viscous.
There are numerous places where God gave man not only the right but the obligation to protect himself, his family and his possessions and no, I will not cite chapter and verse. Do your own research for a change so that maybe you can sound half intelligent in your future posts.
God is an imaginary being, just like Santa and the Easter Bunny, therefore he has given you nothing.
Might want to reconsider your position Meester Tap. If it were not for God allowing it, your heart would cease to beat, you would take your last gasp, and you would be no more.
You make a lot of references to Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny. What are you? 8? 10? It's close to your bedtime, junior.
Comments
The tone of this forum reflects the tone of the moderator
Another prime example of a new member, coming into the forum ranting and raving, that DOES NOT HAVE A CLUE.
FYI. I came into this forum, UNEDUCATED. It was the members that were/are here, that set the tone, not I. Some of those members have long since departed these forums. Admittedly I was already "leaning" a bit. But my initial reaction, especially to what I was hearing about my beloved NRA, was...shall we say, NOT what I wanted to hear.
I read, I questioned, I investigated, I learned. After a while, and a LOT of reading, I was willing to admit that, maybe -- just maybe, "I" was the one who had been WRONG for so many years, and that "quite possibly" they were RIGHT. Maybe MY NRA didn't deserve to be on the pedestal I had placed them on. My "tone" changed over the years, as I became more educated, I found myself falling more in line with this forum. But you just keep right on making any "claim" that floats your boat.
It NEVER EVEN OCCURRED to me, to try to PREVENT anyone from presenting their opinions, ideas, and/or facts. No matter whether I agreed with it or not. As long as they stayed within the posting guidelines.unlike "some" who WOULD repress the free expression of opinions, ideas, and/or facts.if given half a chance.as proofed by the (not so) veiled threats.
To actually read, that because someone does not like what is being said, someone wants to STOP ANYONE ELSE from BEING ABLE to say it??? I won't even begin to draw the parallels, associating this kind of mentality, to other regimes throughout history. Will we all be invited to the book burnings?
I'll let the readers draw their own conclusions, concerning ANY member(s) who ADVOCATES this kind of CENSORSHIP and/or SUPPRESSION of ideas and/or information. To WANT TO STIFLE ONE SIDE of ANYTHING, simply because someone DOES NOT AGREE with it??? [:0][:0][:0]
And these are our...ALLIES??? [V]
Sure would like to know where you are spending all your money to help the cause. I sure would like to contribute. So who or what or where do I send my check?
To actually read, that because someone does not like what is being said, someone wants to STOP ANYONE ELSE from BEING ABLE to say it??? I won't even begin to draw the parallels, associating this kind of mentality, to other regimes throughout history. Will we all be invited to the book burnings?
I'll let the readers draw their own conclusions, concerning ANY member(s) who ADVOCATES this kind of CENSORSHIP and/or SUPPRESSION of ideas and/or information. To WANT TO STIFLE ONE SIDE of ANYTHING, simply because someone DOES NOT AGREE with it??? I can attest to every word of that statement(s)!! The rules are few and quite clear. Remain within those guidelines and no problem!! There are some that just find rules to cumbersome, try to push them to the limit or just consider themselves above it all. IMHO your enforcement has been absolute and CONSISTANT during my entire tenure. FWIW: I think you do a great job on this forum and thank you for your patience and service to the forum. It must be trying, to say the least, at times.
New Member
USA
82 Posts
Posted - 04/10/2008 : 01:28:01 AM
Highball
Sure would like to know where you are spending all your money to help the cause. I sure would like to contribute. So who or what or where do I send my check?
Sorry...I don't need your kind. Please continue to send your money to the NRA. Weakening the hard core with such as you isn't in the cards.
He doesn't need it...but Pickenup gets my vote as an excellent moderator.
He and I had our hard words, when he came aboard.
The difference between him and the Slumlords (despicable name, bty), TRfoxes, ect. was...he tried really hard to dig out the information to refute what some of us were saying.
The more he dug.the uglier the information, the more damning it got.for the NRA.
He did the research, in other words ..unlike 99% of you followers.
Highball
Sure would like to know where you are spending all your money to help the cause. I sure would like to contribute. So who or what or where do I send my check?
slumlord44, if I may:
If you are serious, may I suggest you look into the GOA? For a simple $ 500.00 Life Membership, you can support an organization that, among many other things, generates and distributes reasoned and thoughtful reports such as the following:
http://www.gunowners.org/ne0702.htm
Perhaps you would may consider the following words, taken from the report linked below as well.
Indeed we do. GOA's brief says:
[T]he argument that "the right of the people" is subject to reasonable regulation and restriction tramples on the very words of the Second Amendment, reading the phrase -- "shall not be infringed" -- as if it read "shall be subject only to reasonable regulation to achieve public safety."
"Public safety" is frequently a canard that tyrants hide behind to justify their oppressive policies. Writing in USA Today, our attorneys Herbert Titus and William Olson stated:
No government deprives its citizens of rights without asserting that its actions are "reasonable" and "necessary" for high-sounding reasons such as "public safety." A right that can be regulated is no right at all, only a temporary privilege dependent upon the good will of the very government officials that such right is designed to constrain.
http://www.gunowners.org/a031908.htm
Can you even see such a statement coming out of the NRA? No, you cannot. You cannot because the NRA, though many are well-intentioned, have adopted the very notion that the 2nd is a right that can be regulated. The NRA has chosen to work with the system to further ingrain this notion in the hearts and minds of 10s and 100s of millions of Americans. The GOA indeed shines the light of truth regarding the RKBA, and many in the NRA are found scurrying away.
That being said, each and every citizen needs to do what they believe to the best for them and for their belief system, and support those organizations that are worth supporting. For me, it is being a life member of the GOA.
Brad Steele
Huh? It has been pointed out hundreds of times here on GB, but why not try again?
90 million gunowners in America.
How is that a minority when only aprox. 110 million people vote?
Gunowners I would say, are easily the largest interest group EVER! Show me a larger one tr. Show me how we are a minority with 90 million members as of last potus election.
quote:I say that if we can get any form of support from moderates/quislings/whatever you wish to call them, we take it. This is not about morals, principles, or beliefs. This is about survival. The survival of the principles that we are 'hardline' about. And even if it survives in a weakened state, I still find that to be better than seeing them die completely.
Death is still death and it is complete whether it is slow and practically un-noticed, or fast and noticeable.
That's what you limp wristed compromisers don't seem to get.
New Member
USA
82 Posts
Posted - 04/08/2008 : 12:20:56 AM
Tr Fox
I am one of the few who participate in this forum that prety much agrees with you 100%. Talk is cheap. I spend a little of my cash to help the cause. Many of the so called hardliners do nothing but blow a lot of hot air. A lot of these guys talk tough but when the men with badges and guns come to there door to confiscate their guns, how many will have the gonads to resist?
Follow the sell-out of the NRA to it's sister, the fed govt, to it's LOGICAL CONCLUSION, fool. (If you are capable) When/if you reach that point in your thought process, come to the realization that money wasted on the NRA would be better spent on ammo.
Ah yes, that makes infringement much more acceptable. I suppose the NRA won that battle for you? (Don't fight the battles yourself, after all you paid $25 to have someone do it for you)[xx(]
This is an argument that will never be totally solved, nor agreed on totally. I may not post much, but I guess I am one of the "hardliners."
I see the second amendment very clearly,.....it is a right, and not to be watered down by thousands of "feel good" laws, that have turned it into nothing but a privilege.
It was also the backbone of the entire Constitution, as without it, we would be no better off than the original men who tired of England's tyranny, and created this once great nation.
The NRA is what it is,..they should have stuck to what they were founded for, which was for the purpose of training in the proper use of firearms.
I am in a situation as we speak at the private range I belong to. NRA membership by the primary member is mandatory.
There are a number of us that are not renewing our NRA memberships, of which I am one. I have been told that as of November when it expires that I will no longer be able to come there any longer.
It is a private facility, and I understand they have the right to make their own rules, but I will not be blackmailed into contributing to an organization that I do not believe in.
Unless we can get them to accept GOA as a substitute, I will no longer have a close, and convenient place to shoot. So be it!
My own mother, while she was never "anti-gun", used to be concerned about the number of firearms, and the types. I would get the typical questions like, "Why do you need to own assault rifles, and multiple auto handguns",..and "Why do you have so much ammo?"
I explained over the years, the importance of the second amendment, and what is was meant for. Finally she came to the clear understanding of it, and often mentions about our gun rights when we speak. She knows they are one of the main things guaranteeing our freedom. She owns a gun, and knows how to use it also!
The other plus is,...I no longer get all of the questions, only speeches about I better be watching out for my rights!
I have played the game of "kneeling" for my CCW permit, and the NICS checks,..I do not do it out of servitude, I do it to keep myself as a free man, able to protect my family, and myself, and also to be available should the worst scenario we can imagine happen. I abide by it with "disgust"!
On the subject of the Mod's,..Pickenup, is as fair as can be. He jumped my case once, but it was my fault, as I was violating the TOS of this site.
He was simply doing his "unpaid" job, and this IS a privately owned forum with rules.
Sorry my comments didn't add much of value,..but I do not have lt496's oratory skills!
Pickenup, Though I may not make much mention of it, you do an excellent job. I know I have pushed your buttons once or twice, but you are ALLWAYS fair, and do you job right. If GB ever DID pay you mods, I would hope you get the biggest lump sum, as you deserve it. I apprecaite your hard work.
Man, you sure do not play well with others. Do not get your problem with my user name. Using your logic one could assume that you are a drug addict. That would explain a lot. But I guess you know what happens when you assume something. Since you will not name an orginization, there must not be one. The great thing about this country is that we can disagree. If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem.
Don,
I am looking at GOA. Not sure yet. No restrictions would be great, but this not going to happen and would probably create as many problems as it would fix. It is sad that so many of us who support the 2nd ammendment can't even agree to be civil to each other. Sadly, much of what I see here is not a civil discussion.
Highball
Man, you sure do not play well with others. Do not get your problem with my user name. Using your logic one could assume that you are a drug addict. That would explain a lot. But I guess you know what happens when you assume something. Since you will not name an orginization, there must not be one. The great thing about this country is that we can disagree. If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem.
Don,
I am looking at GOA. Not sure yet. No restrictions would be great, but this not going to happen and would probably create as many problems as it would fix.
It is sad that so many of us who support the 2nd ammendment can't even agree to be civil to each other. Sadly, much of what I see here is not a civil discussion.
Your own comment that no restrictions on firearms would probably create as many problems as it would fix, does not reconcile with your claim that you support the "2nd ammendment" (your spelling).
Even if problems were created by "no government restrictions", that is exactly what Amendment II says and what it clearly means, e.g. no government restrictions.
How then do you explain your NRA support and your expressed support of the "trfox" position, at 100% I must add?
Both of those things, supported by you, are contrary to Amendment II as it is written.
Could it be that you, like tr, fail to grasp the meaning of Amendment II, or that you understand it, but willingly and readily accept unconstitutional government regulation (read infringement) on the RTKBA?
How then are you a supporter of the "2nd ammendment" (your spelling, not mine)?
Just curious.
Perhaps it might be better to share your secrects with me and others than to ridicule those who are unaware of them. To many the NRA has a false image of supporting guns rights. I almost fell into that years ago but decided to do my homework before joining. I'm glad I did and have never been a member and never will be. However it seems to me you guys have a method from reading your posts for fighting "big brother" why not share it with others instead of slaming the door in our face claiming you need no help. Together we stand divided we fall...remember? Or is your method some type of paranoid Stalinistic purge for all those who you think are against your beliefs? I can't help thinking this, the way you guys belittle every person that isn't in line with your exact thoughts. Have you ever been wrong in your life? Have you learned from your mistakes? with help from someone else? Well lets give others that same chance instead of condeming them from the word go.
Reading this thread really makes me think you guys have lost all compassion for those who have accepted the fact that government restriction of the 2nd will never be completely eliminated. Yet every time we go to buy a firearm we all bow to whatever restrictions have been placed on them in order to aquire them. No, none of us like it and we all make different excuses for abiding by the restrictions as to not alter our fundamental ego's of being staunch constitutionalists.
Highball,It495 I am interested in the techniques you have found to be successfull in changing the restrictive laws of the 2nd? Which laws have you had success/input in changing?
Although I can see that your questions are designed to paint a negative picture of Highball and I, I will at this point answer this question in general.
First, "I" have not been successful in changing restrictive laws. I am one man. One man who votes, who writes his representatives (and others) prolifically, one who stays informed, one who has addressed the legislature, one who has attempted to live his life as a free man, one who has adopted a somewhat "confrontational" style of identifying and pointing out government actions that are predatory, restrictive or unconstitutional, both on-line and in my daily life. Also one who has gravitated to groups who support Amendment II in a "no-compromise" fashion such as GOA and JPFO.
About all a man can legally do, at least in my particular circumstance, is to attempt to have others at least confront their positions and those of government in the bright light of day and hope that they think about their beliefs and government's actions in a new light.
Is that okay with you Hunter?
Perhaps it might be better to share your secrects with me and others than to ridicule those who are unaware of them.
Gee Hunter, there is no big "secret" it is called the US Constitution and its Bill of Rights, you should read it some time.
Another part of the big "secret" is called "rugged individualism" and "individual liberty", two concepts that seem lost on many of the New Americans.
As far as ridicule of those unaware of them....I generally don't "ridicule" the ignorant, usually just smart-* like you who seem to display a willful disregard of the above, or at least seem to attempt to paint some "off-base", "paranoid" picture of those who speak about freedom.[;)]
To many the NRA has a false image of supporting guns rights. I almost fell into that years ago but decided to do my homework before joining. I'm glad I did and have never been a member and never will be.
Hooray for you Hunter. You seem to be on the right track.
Nice move, but did you join a group that does lobby, does attempt to kill unconstitutional legislation? Perhaps the GOA, or JPFO, or Second Ammendment Foundation?
However it seems to me you guys have a method from reading your posts for fighting "big brother" why not share it with others instead of slaming the door in our face claiming you need no help.
My "method" is described above. Can't speak for others.
To do nothing, or to advocate acceptance of a predatory government's actions (or at least parts of those actions), or to denigrate those speaking out for freedom, well, that seems counterproductive to the goal of restoring the Republic, which is what my focus is on.
To attempt to wake people up to the reality of government actions and their own actions and beliefs, and to hold up the "yardstick" of individual liberty and the Constitution to measure those actions/positions, that seems a "method" of having people rethink their positions (potentially) and those of government actions....I have something like a "paradigm shift" in mind.
Together we stand divided we fall...remember?
Speaking for myself, I don't want to "stand" with those who either fail to grasp constitutional concepts, or who willfully disregard them. Nor do I choose to "stand" with individuals who willingly accept or advocate for government intrusions into fundamental rights.
To do so would weaken the "cause" and dilute the message IMO.
Or is your method some type of paranoid Stalinistic purge for all those who you think are against your beliefs? I can't help thinking this, the way you guys belittle every person that isn't in line with your exact thoughts.
Well Hunter, you are indeed entitled to your opinion, but to equate passionate advocacy for individual freedom and the restoration of America's Constitutional Republic with some "Stalinistic" (read oppressive/suppressive) activity, well, that places you into a category of quasi if not outright idiocy.
Ooops, there I go belittling again, right? Well sir, you earned it with that cheap shot.
I think that if you do a bit of simple "re-reading" of my posts, you may find an occasional "idiot" comment thrown at someone who said something really, really stupid....see above; but rather you will primarily see forceful, impassioned advocacy for and an attempt to have others see clearly, the issues of individual liberty relating to the US Constitution and spirit of "rugged individualism"....you know, the old attempt by me of a "paradigm shift", or at least a reexamination of views and beliefs for some.
Have you ever been wrong in your life? Have you learned from your mistakes? with help from someone else? Well lets give others that same chance instead of condeming them from the word go.
Again you are ascribing motive and actions to me that are simply not there. Of course I've made mistakes and learned from them. Most humans have.
Again, speaking only for myself, I merely attempt to open eyes and challenge some people's traditional "way of thinking" about freedom and government.
THAT is helping others who may need it Hunter. Don't you think?
Reading this thread really makes me think you guys have lost all compassion for those who have accepted the fact that government restriction of the 2nd will never be completely eliminated.
X-ring Hunter!
I have indeed lost ALL compassion and tolerance for those who accept and/or concede that Amendment II, in its true form, has been lost, never to be returned.
Yet every time we go to buy a firearm we all bow to whatever restrictions have been placed on them in order to aquire them. No, none of us like it and we all make different excuses for abiding by the restrictions as to not alter our fundamental ego's of being staunch constitutionalists.
Yes, we all live under the heel of a predatory government in this area. Yes we all "bow" in a figurative sense to the government when we do so.
The difference, at least in my eyes, is that many willing accept it and have conceded the issue, IF they even ever questioned it to begin with.
This is the dividing line for me reference individuals. You see, I firmly believe that this is the real battle ground, the battleground of ideas and beliefs.
If we citizens can not even grasp the concept of freedom and constitutional government, how then are we to ever turn the tide?
THAT is why I advocate as I do.
I have a modest skill of "written" "oratory". That is something that I take full advantage of when I see it may do some good.
One final point. I generally post these windy replies, not so much for the one being replied to, but primarily for those who may read it and who may then "think" about the issue from a "impersonal, non-involved" position.
Paradigm shift Hunter, paradigm shift. THAT is the ball I keep my eye on.
I am the stick.
I INTEND slapping people across the face .infuriating them. That tells me if there is still a scant trace of blood left in their veins.or if every bit of courage has been sucked out of them by the Beast.
If they are a Man ..they will cool off and think about what is being said .. if for no other reason then they tire of being beaten about the head and shoulders with facts they cannot dispute..
Many of them are forced to actually THINK.for perhaps the first time in their lives.
A thinking man is soon to be a friend.
Only those hopelessly brain-dead can continue to hold up the NRA position as being "Second Amendment Supporting"..for nothing can be father from the truth then that.
"Play well with others".Indeed. Were this a game ..I might attach a bit of credulity to this statement.
NOT a game.but a deadly serious series of maneuvers designed to subvert and destroy America, by the Elites.THAT is the endgame of gun control.
I do not want weak-kneed craven cowards speaking for me .nor defining my position.
I see no point in attempting to `rollback' ANY one or two gun laws any more..and waste no time at all attempting it. They have encroached on freedom in so many areas, even a
LIFETIME of work could gain us naught.
Joining any group today `fighting for the Second Amendment' is counterproductive, in my opinion ..for the truth is, we are losing in EVERY sector of Society.
My study of history tells me that there reaches a point in a declining culture there is little chance to right things by conventional means. I believe we have reached and passed that point.
I advocate nothing except education of as many as possible.and preparing for the worst.
I DO NOT ADVOCATE VIOLENCE.
I advocate being prepared to REPEL violence.for it is coming at us like a fright train.
If you do not understand that phrase,.......please, look it up in the dictionary!
I am also amazed at the number of gun owners that I personally know, that do not understand why I wish to own AR's, and AK's, and why I have ammunition stocked by the case for them.
I am friendly with them, but always get a small feeling that some of them think I am a bit of a "nutcase."
Nothing could be further from the truth,.......I have never had a run-in with the "authorities" in my life, nor do I dream of being able to kill an intruder one day.
I simply plan for needs,.....enjoy shooting, and USING my second amendment rights![;)]
Just to clairify since it's too easy to assume most don't know what the 2nd means.
I am a firm believer in the 2nd. However there's still a small part of me that thinks if someone like Charles(and this is an extreme example)Manson were paroled he certainly should not be given the right to have a gun. He should be given many things which I wount elaborate on but not a gun. Yes I know this is against the 2nd but that's the way I feel about it. Right or wrong I'm being honest here and it wouldn't be right if I wasn't.
Now that the chips are on the table the government/lawmakers are the ones that don't understand what the 2nd is/means. But you guys know that. The government does whats best for the government but I'm not sure they can even do that.
They just find a particular group that's in line with whatever laws/restrictions they're in favor of and go with that.
Well gotta go guys...[;)]
First off, he should never be released, and should have been put to death, IMHO.
Here is where the problem comes in!
Say he was released one day,.......not put on parole, as I personally consider a felon on parole, as still serving their sentence, and part of their punishment.
In that case, I do not believe his rights should be restored.
If a felon has served the sentence, and is released, and no longer on parole,......whether I personally like the idea or not, I say they should get their rights back.
At that point, they have served their entire sentence, and should now be considered a free man. If that is not the intent of the legal system, they should still be in the big house.
Where the real problem lies, is in the courts not using the myriad of laws that we already have to eliminate these types. They are given "light" sentences constantly, and often serve 1/3 of the time sentenced.
Remember,......most felons are simple "drug" offenders. While I have never dabbled with illegal drugs many have, and have been convicted for it. One of my best friends served time when he was young.
He has turned his life into a "model" for others, and I helped him get his record expunged so that he could get his right to own firearms back.
I do not feel the least bit bad for doing that, and have no fear that he will ever hurt an innocent citizen because of it.
The folks that are truly dangerous need to be kept locked up, or gotten rid of,.........unfortunately that often is not the case.[xx(]
A free man, is a free man,.......and should have all of their rights back. It is a price we have to pay, to maintain the integrity of our Constitution.
Agreed. Plus an unrestricted RTKBA for everyone would in all probability prove to be a deterrent to any former con wishing to do mischief with a firearm he obtained.
That person ought to have stretched rope many years ago...along with most of his groupies.
There would be no doubt about 'handing him his gun back'..no discussion at all.
THAT is the sort of thing we ought to be demanding from 'authorities'..swift and speedy FAIR justice. NOT gun control.
Agreed Marc. It's a pathetic joke, our injustice system. But it plays it's part in this viscious busted circle.
It's real obvious, when the guy growing/selling weed gets 20 years, and the murderer gets 6, that something is not only wrong, but ridiculous.
TR- You should run for president of the NRA.
Tell us, hbolteast...when was your door last kicked in at 3 AM, and why????
God gave you the right to own guns? Really? Chapter, verse?
LMAO!!!
He also thinks that since the hardliners (PATRIOTIC AMERICANS) are a minority we can not retain our GOD given rights
God gave you the right to own guns? Really? Chapter, verse?
LMAO!!!
As you well know, the unalienable right refered to as the RTKBA, is about the ability to defend self, family, country and others, or to replace a tyrannical government if necessary.
Swords, sticks, spears, whatever...all, according to the time in history, fit the bill and you know it.
You simply can't help showing your *, can you?
Do you even understand the meaning of "Unalienable Right", "God-given Right", or "Natural Right"?
I thought not.
Well, they are "entitlements" gifted upon everyone by being alive.
Government doesn't grant them and government cannot take them away. All government can do is attempt to restrict them and make it a crime for one to exercise them.....or, as in the case of our Constitutional Republic, government can be formed to secure those rights.
They exist regardless.
Needless to say triple, folks like you are the reason that our government has strayed from their duty to secure those rights and morphed into the predatory state that it now is.
Thanks for the work that you do......not.[;)]
What a pinhead.[V]
I recognize a higher power then government.
You do not.
Bow to the Northeast, fool....
He also thinks that since the hardliners (PATRIOTIC AMERICANS) are a minority we can not retain our GOD given rights
God gave you the right to own guns? Really? Chapter, verse?
Since "God" isn't really responsible for "chapter and verse", your question has no "chapter and verse" answer.
However, your Right to Self Defense exists on a basic animal level. Even cute little bunnies will fight to survive.
Humans are Tool Users. We do not have tooth and claw - the animals' weapons.
By restricting or denying me the tools of Self Defense, you are denying me the MEANS of self defense. You are saying that my LIFE is not worth Defending. That it is WORTH LESS than the lives of those who are "allowed" to use tools.
When any entity - be it person, religion or Government - starts saying, implicitly or explicitly, that the lives of some people are WORTHLESS, then they have created the cachet to begin the wholesale killing.
Now, for "chapter and verse" I suggest you go read what Rabbi Mermelstein has to say on the subject. http://www.gunownersalliance.com/Rabbi_0363.htm
Welcome back..been missing your posts.
Congratulations on your positive actions relating to continued freedoms here in America.
My personal opinion is that educating a half-dozen young warriours about what REAL freedom means is more valuble then another 100 missions dreamed up by crooked politicians....designed to increase their power and billfold.
You make an interesting point.." Two Hardlines". I need to process that a bit. Generally, when I hear the "We gotta have gun control" crowd speak, I get the mental picture of Casper Milktoasts type 'man'...eagerly awaiting the government to step in and protect them from all imagined ills...
But I believe that medicare is something that would make the situation much more clear.
Not 20 years ago, surgeries, medications, and even cancer treatments would not break an average family. Now, it costs people everything they own.
Doctors are effectively guaranteed exorbitant amounts of money for their services, given this guarantee by the federal government's regulations on health insurance and medicare. They have no need to make their services affordable, and the government certainly uses that to full advantage.
ALL of the presidential candidates use medicare as a campaign issue. None of them will do anything to fix it. Hillary for one intends to put every single American under the yoke by making it mandatory. This is nothing more than blackmail. They're demanding votes and power, in exchange for medicine and services that some people need to live. There are people already convinced that they cannot survive without money from the government, because they need medicine. This handout keeps them in line.
We can expect to see a trend of gradually criminalizing small business, the same way firearms ownership has been. Big companies are run by those that want more money and power, and are easily kept in the pocket of politicians who can grant more money and power. Small businesses are run by those who wish to be independent, the natural enemy of these tyrants. There's already an increase in the trend of thinking that one would need money from the government in order to START a small business.
None of this has anything to do with firearms. It still has everything to do with tyranny.
Even if these people won't demand the return of gun rights in so many words, they can still be convinced to reject the control of those that are our enemies.
He also thinks that since the hardliners (PATRIOTIC AMERICANS) are a minority we can not retain our GOD given rights
God gave you the right to own guns? Really? Chapter, verse?
LMAO!!!
Trust me, we aren't laughing WITH you. I'm not quite sure why you are still allowed in this forum; if you could debate, I'd enjoy reading your posts and responding but you're just viscous.
There are numerous places where God gave man not only the right but the obligation to protect himself, his family and his possessions and no, I will not cite chapter and verse. Do your own research for a change so that maybe you can sound half intelligent in your future posts.
God is an imaginary being, just like Santa and the Easter Bunny, therefore he has given you nothing.
Lose the childish superstitions, maybe then grownups will take you seriously.
God is an imaginary being, just like Santa and the Easter Bunny, therefore he has given you nothing.
Might want to reconsider your position Meester Tap. If it were not for God allowing it, your heart would cease to beat, you would take your last gasp, and you would be no more.
You make a lot of references to Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny. What are you? 8? 10? It's close to your bedtime, junior.
Sorta inflames them.
you may be on to something there, however, I believe our friend 3x223tap only is into worshipping himself.
Sorta inflames them.
heh, heh, heh. Pun intended?[:D]