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One reason I support limited capital punishment is because in some actual criminal cases, the suspect has plea bargained to avoid the death penalty.
And by such plea bargaining, many times a crime was solved, guilt was proven, and the guilty punished that without that plea bargain the guilty party would have gone unpunished and the crime unsolved.
The way to avoid having vicious criminals going to their gas chambers withholding knowledge of victims is simple.
Once convicted by a jury of 12..they are tranported to the 'truth chamber'...wherein electrodes are implanted into their brains....and One simple question is asked.
"Did you commit this crime you are convicted of..?" A truthful answer
of "No" would lead to immediate release and compensation. The very next act would be to round up the arresting cop and supporting actors..those testifing to the guilt of the accused. Within 8 hours, we could find out who is lying.....and that person would take the place of the accused. Meanwhile, the hunt would begin again for the guilty party....
A truthful answer of "yes" would lead to total draining of every crime the perp had committed all the way back to 5 years old....by whatever means necessary.
quote:Originally posted by Highball
The way to avoid having vicious criminals going to their gas chambers withholding knowledge of victims is simple.
Once convicted by a jury of 12..they are tranported to the 'truth chamber'...wherein electrodes are implanted into their brains....and One simple question is asked.
"Did you commit this crime you are convicted of..?" A truthful answer
of "No" would lead to immediate release and compensation. The very next act would be to round up the arresting cop and supporting actors..those testifing to the guilt of the accused. Within 8 hours, we could find out who is lying.....and that person would take the place of the accused. Meanwhile, the hunt would begin again for the guilty party....
A truthful answer of "yes" would lead to total draining of every crime the perp had committed all the way back to 5 years old....by whatever means necessary.
God,Guts,& Guns<BR>Have we lost all 3 ??<BR>
I don't think the technology is available yet to allow us to do this Highball.
Not in general usage...no. But there has been some cutting edge stuff being done in the relm of discovering exactly HOW the brain works. Spending some of the billions the government wastes every day on some camel jockey, or secretary grabass...would accomplish wonders.
Lacking that...Sodium Pentathal might work till the breakthru comes...
My method dictates that upon being convicted..the perp loses his 'rights'..this of course only for violent crimes.
The way the 'Justice System' works today...one never really knows if the subject is really guilty...or just the victim of cops/D.A./Judges or some wealthy member of the area needing a scapegoat...
quote:Once convicted by a jury of 12..they are tranported to the 'truth chamber'...wherein electrodes are implanted into their brains....and One simple question is asked.
"Did you commit this crime you are convicted of..?" A truthful answer
of "No" would lead to immediate release and compensation. The very next act would be to round up the arresting cop and supporting actors..those testifing to the guilt of the accused. Within 8 hours, we could find out who is lying.....and that person would take the place of the accused. Meanwhile, the hunt would begin again for the guilty party....
Highball, I think you have found your calling! You have got to put this down on paper and send it to Hollywood. I think you could be a millionaire!
I can't wait to see "Truth Chamber" at my local theater.
[:D]
-WW
"...That the people have a right to keep and bear arms; that a well-regulated militia, composed of the body of the people trained to arms, is the proper, natural, and safe defence of a free state."
-The Debates in the Convention of the Commonwealth of Virginia, on the Adoption of the Federal Constitution. June 27, 1788.
Use cell phones ? Computers/Laser technology/Thermal Imaging/..I could go on and on.
All Science Fiction..for you smart guys. Either you are too young..or not smart enough to remember not many years back when the idea the government could moniter every call in the U.S....was considered "Parnoid"...every E-Mail...oh ya...I forget....20 years ago..there was no such thing as the Internet...
The problem with the death penalty is that there is no do-overs.
Regardless of what all think, we as humans, are subject to having our opinions or thoughts clouded by what is presented. We are ALL guilty of passing judgment based on what we see or hear.
We've all sat and watched the T.V. shows and see how the truth is bent/broken to fit a particular scenario. The ending is nothing like what is presented which, by the way, makes for good movies) and yet, for some undefinable reason we generally have some deluded thought that our legal system is different.
Everyday, in every location, people are found guilty based on evidence (loosely presented) by what prosecutors WANT us to see. However, unless you have a lot of money (OJ Simpson for example)you are going to be found guilty.
How many of you have ever received a ticket for something involving your driving habits but yet you really were innocent? A lot.
Most of you have never stood in front of a judge and seen just how bizarre a courtroom really is. How ridiculous the whole system is. Understand that courtrooms are really just big business. Now, imagine the big business types; Trump, Gates for eg.. Think they've made that much money by being honest? LMAO
They've got "henchmen" that do their bidding.
Those two are poor compared to the government in general. Think the government is honest? puleaase.
If I had the time or the funds, I could demonstrate to all those that think murder for murder is an answer. I could pretty much guarantee that if you had absolutely nothing to do with a crime in particular, that I could have you arrested, convicted and sentenced to death based merely on circumstantial evidence.
Don't get me wrong; if someone harms me or mine (more on the mine part) better watch out, you'll pay and I mean on a personal level.
The government which you all are supporting by saying "hang em' high" is the self-same government that is continuously removing your rights. So, I guess for the hard core types that think something is resolved by big brother kicking a** for you, remember, if you have a big brother you know all to well that he'll kick your a** just 'cause he can as well.
I am 100% for and really demand that violent criminals be executed at/during the attempted commission of their crime. That's what Self Defense IS.
After that, aside from positive DNA testing for Child Rape, there is just too much chance of an erronius or malicious false conviction. Jurors are Stupid and witnesses are falible. The Victim knows who is trying to hurt them, WHEN they are being hurt.
If you don't have the will to defend yourself I don't have much pity.
Now, that said: I AM for the execution of violent recividists. A man may be railroaded or otherwise falsely convicted. It doesn't happen twice. If it does, you have serious enemies you didn't move away from and are too stupid to live anyway.
quote:Originally posted by clfergy
The problem with the death penalty is that there is no do-overs.
Regardless of what all think, we as humans, are subject to having our opinions or thoughts clouded by what is presented. We are ALL guilty of passing judgment based on what we see or hear.
We've all sat and watched the T.V. shows and see how the truth is bent/broken to fit a particular scenario. The ending is nothing like what is presented which, by the way, makes for good movies) and yet, for some undefinable reason we generally have some deluded thought that our legal system is different.
Everyday, in every location, people are found guilty based on evidence (loosely presented) by what prosecutors WANT us to see. However, unless you have a lot of money (OJ Simpson for example)you are going to be found guilty.
How many of you have ever received a ticket for something involving your driving habits but yet you really were innocent? A lot.
Most of you have never stood in front of a judge and seen just how bizarre a courtroom really is. How ridiculous the whole system is. Understand that courtrooms are really just big business. Now, imagine the big business types; Trump, Gates for eg.. Think they've made that much money by being honest? LMAO
They've got "henchmen" that do their bidding.
Those two are poor compared to the government in general. Think the government is honest? puleaase.
If I had the time or the funds, I could demonstrate to all those that think murder for murder is an answer. I could pretty much guarantee that if you had absolutely nothing to do with a crime in particular, that I could have you arrested, convicted and sentenced to death based merely on circumstantial evidence.
Don't get me wrong; if someone harms me or mine (more on the mine part) better watch out, you'll pay and I mean on a personal level.
The government which you all are supporting by saying "hang em' high" is the self-same government that is continuously removing your rights. So, I guess for the hard core types that think something is resolved by big brother kicking a** for you, remember, if you have a big brother you know all to well that he'll kick your a** just 'cause he can as well.
It is my belief that this post is as spot on, as a post can be.
The "death penalty" should be administered by the VICTIM at the time of the CRIME.
Beyond that, in a BETTER system, let the DNA evidence condem the perp.
Capital punishment as it exists in this country is a travesty. It is no deterrent that is for sure.
Bring back public executions either by hanging or firing squads. I will be the first in line to take my kid to see it. Do it within a mile of where the crime was committed too. That should jerk some idiots out of their gang banger MTV fantasy world real f-ing quick.
I remember my grandfather telling me about witnessing a public hanging when he was a kid .
He said he knew he did not want to get in trouble after that .
We could easily "watch" those that are violent or in need of serious discipline. Small transmitters could be installed and take the burden off the prison system or more to the point, the taxpayers.
Again, death for death is not going to solve anything. I believe that it is statistical that capital punishment is not a cure-all for violent crimes. A deterrent, yes, but if you look around, you'll note that rape, murder and incest, molestation, etc... is still going on. Has damn near since the beginning of time. (Cane and Able)
The transmitter mentioned above could easily be made to release a sleeping agent, a toxin, many things, if one were to travel outside a given perimeter. No big deal.
Just about all crimes could be justified; the only one I cannot justify is rape or molestation. Absolutely no reason one has to do that, none whatsoever. Those transmitters would release toxins that either paralyze or debilitate so that the person can then be justly dealt with. I guess that a device as such would be deemed "cruel and unusual".
Anyway, just some thoughts.
quote:Originally posted by clfergy
We could easily "watch" those that are violent or in need of serious discipline. Small transmitters could be installed and take the burden off the prison system or more to the point, the taxpayers.
Again, death for death is not going to solve anything. I believe that it is statistical that capital punishment is not a cure-all for violent crimes. A deterrent, yes, but if you look around, you'll note that rape, murder and incest, molestation, etc... is still going on. Has damn near since the beginning of time. (Cane and Able)
The transmitter mentioned above could easily be made to release a sleeping agent, a toxin, many things, if one were to travel outside a given perimeter. No big deal.
Just about all crimes could be justified; the only one I cannot justify is rape or molestation. Absolutely no reason one has to do that, none whatsoever. Those transmitters would release toxins that either paralyze or debilitate so that the person can then be justly dealt with. I guess that a device as such would be deemed "cruel and unusual".
Anyway, just some thoughts.
I disagree with the premise that it does not cure anything. It does. It guarantees that the offender will never do another thing to another person ever again. It deals specifically with the individual, and does not attempt to place the blame or responsibility elsewhere. Using the death penalty as something other than as ultimate punishment for absolutely horrific malum in se acts is assinine. It should not be a deterrent. the only real deterrent should be the fact that if you are in the process of commiting a death-penalty worthy act, it's open season on you, that is all the deterrent that should be necessary.
Death penalty statistics are just numbers. It is impossible to draw conclusions from any of the observations, because the people commiting these acts are of the belief that they will get away with it. that is not deterrence.
I say if you are going to use a transmitter, it should be equipped with a small shaped high explosive charge, instead. trigger it, and it blasts your head off. Cruel or unusual?? no. Why, because this is not punishment. It is a contingency for when a hardened criminal needs neutralized after an escape attempt. Since they "punished" themselves, this wouldn't apply.
Under the flawed system we have I would say no death penalty. There have been to many people wrongly convicted and sentanced to time in prison or to actual death for mistakes the defense attorney made, or from an over eager prosecutor, or sadly, from lying cops.
When we go to court the whole purpose of the prosecutor is to prove you guilty. This is crazy. His job should be to find out the truth. To many times their overzelous actions have convicted the wrong person. To many times evidence has been hidden from the court for whatever reason. Our system is so flawed it is really crazy.
I am speaking from personal experience on this subject. Myself and several family members and friends were enjoying a night at a local watering hole and I happen to be playing pool with this guy that we had never seen in there before. He had lost like 4 games to me and all of a sudden he started yelling that I was cheating and he wanted his money back. I told him he was crazy and walked off. He decides to come up behind me and hit me in the back of the head with his pool stick. He put 12 stiches in my head. After I got my senses back, I commense to whoop up on this little punk. I got him on the ground and hit him a few more times and finally I let him go. He leaves and a few minutes later the whole bar fills up with cops looking for me and harrassing everyone in the bar. Come to find out this guy was a cop that I had beat up for hitting me in the head with his pool stick.
Well, I was arrested for assault on a police officer and I went straight to jail. I tried to press charges on him but was not allowed to. At the trial I had a court room full of witnesses even the owner of the bar telling what had happened. Didn't matter, he was a police office and according to the DA they do not lie. He said the exact opposite to what had happened. He said that I jumped him first and he was just protecting himself. He also claimed that he had informed me that he was a police officer. Several people testified that this was a lie but the judge went along with the officer and convicted me. I ended up with 6 months of work release and 3 years probation and worse of all a record. I even got up on the stand and demanded that we both take a lie detector test to see who was lying. Of course the DA shut me down really quick on that one. There was no way they were let that officer take a lie detector test.
After I got off of work release, I could not go anywhere without being harraseed by the local cops. I got ticket after ticket. I got pulled over and searched for no reason. They were out to get me for kicking butt on one of their own. Fianlly I had to pay a lawyer $3800.00 to get the Charlotte city cops off my butt.
Well I moved to SC from my home town of over 50 years. I still have to work in Charlotte but the cops no longer harass me any more.
Pro, with serious proof of guilt as I would not care to kill someone who was innocent. I would like to expand it to politicians that knowingly put our kids, brothers, sisters, mothers and fathers in harms way to fullfill their delusions
Comments
And by such plea bargaining, many times a crime was solved, guilt was proven, and the guilty punished that without that plea bargain the guilty party would have gone unpunished and the crime unsolved.
Once convicted by a jury of 12..they are tranported to the 'truth chamber'...wherein electrodes are implanted into their brains....and One simple question is asked.
"Did you commit this crime you are convicted of..?" A truthful answer
of "No" would lead to immediate release and compensation. The very next act would be to round up the arresting cop and supporting actors..those testifing to the guilt of the accused. Within 8 hours, we could find out who is lying.....and that person would take the place of the accused. Meanwhile, the hunt would begin again for the guilty party....
A truthful answer of "yes" would lead to total draining of every crime the perp had committed all the way back to 5 years old....by whatever means necessary.
God,Guts,& GunsHave we lost all 3 ??
The way to avoid having vicious criminals going to their gas chambers withholding knowledge of victims is simple.
Once convicted by a jury of 12..they are tranported to the 'truth chamber'...wherein electrodes are implanted into their brains....and One simple question is asked.
"Did you commit this crime you are convicted of..?" A truthful answer
of "No" would lead to immediate release and compensation. The very next act would be to round up the arresting cop and supporting actors..those testifing to the guilt of the accused. Within 8 hours, we could find out who is lying.....and that person would take the place of the accused. Meanwhile, the hunt would begin again for the guilty party....
A truthful answer of "yes" would lead to total draining of every crime the perp had committed all the way back to 5 years old....by whatever means necessary.
God,Guts,& Guns<BR>Have we lost all 3 ??<BR>
I don't think the technology is available yet to allow us to do this Highball.
Lacking that...Sodium Pentathal might work till the breakthru comes...
My method dictates that upon being convicted..the perp loses his 'rights'..this of course only for violent crimes.
The way the 'Justice System' works today...one never really knows if the subject is really guilty...or just the victim of cops/D.A./Judges or some wealthy member of the area needing a scapegoat...
"Did you commit this crime you are convicted of..?" A truthful answer
of "No" would lead to immediate release and compensation. The very next act would be to round up the arresting cop and supporting actors..those testifing to the guilt of the accused. Within 8 hours, we could find out who is lying.....and that person would take the place of the accused. Meanwhile, the hunt would begin again for the guilty party....
Highball, I think you have found your calling! You have got to put this down on paper and send it to Hollywood. I think you could be a millionaire!
I can't wait to see "Truth Chamber" at my local theater.
[:D]
-WW
"...That the people have a right to keep and bear arms; that a well-regulated militia, composed of the body of the people trained to arms, is the proper, natural, and safe defence of a free state."
-The Debates in the Convention of the Commonwealth of Virginia, on the Adoption of the Federal Constitution. June 27, 1788.
All Science Fiction..for you smart guys. Either you are too young..or not smart enough to remember not many years back when the idea the government could moniter every call in the U.S....was considered "Parnoid"...every E-Mail...oh ya...I forget....20 years ago..there was no such thing as the Internet...
Shadow83
Love My Country,
Fear My Government
Regardless of what all think, we as humans, are subject to having our opinions or thoughts clouded by what is presented. We are ALL guilty of passing judgment based on what we see or hear.
We've all sat and watched the T.V. shows and see how the truth is bent/broken to fit a particular scenario. The ending is nothing like what is presented which, by the way, makes for good movies) and yet, for some undefinable reason we generally have some deluded thought that our legal system is different.
Everyday, in every location, people are found guilty based on evidence (loosely presented) by what prosecutors WANT us to see. However, unless you have a lot of money (OJ Simpson for example)you are going to be found guilty.
How many of you have ever received a ticket for something involving your driving habits but yet you really were innocent? A lot.
Most of you have never stood in front of a judge and seen just how bizarre a courtroom really is. How ridiculous the whole system is. Understand that courtrooms are really just big business. Now, imagine the big business types; Trump, Gates for eg.. Think they've made that much money by being honest? LMAO
They've got "henchmen" that do their bidding.
Those two are poor compared to the government in general. Think the government is honest? puleaase.
If I had the time or the funds, I could demonstrate to all those that think murder for murder is an answer. I could pretty much guarantee that if you had absolutely nothing to do with a crime in particular, that I could have you arrested, convicted and sentenced to death based merely on circumstantial evidence.
Don't get me wrong; if someone harms me or mine (more on the mine part) better watch out, you'll pay and I mean on a personal level.
The government which you all are supporting by saying "hang em' high" is the self-same government that is continuously removing your rights. So, I guess for the hard core types that think something is resolved by big brother kicking a** for you, remember, if you have a big brother you know all to well that he'll kick your a** just 'cause he can as well.
I am 100% for and really demand that violent criminals be executed at/during the attempted commission of their crime. That's what Self Defense IS.
After that, aside from positive DNA testing for Child Rape, there is just too much chance of an erronius or malicious false conviction. Jurors are Stupid and witnesses are falible. The Victim knows who is trying to hurt them, WHEN they are being hurt.
If you don't have the will to defend yourself I don't have much pity.
Now, that said: I AM for the execution of violent recividists. A man may be railroaded or otherwise falsely convicted. It doesn't happen twice. If it does, you have serious enemies you didn't move away from and are too stupid to live anyway.
The problem with the death penalty is that there is no do-overs.
Regardless of what all think, we as humans, are subject to having our opinions or thoughts clouded by what is presented. We are ALL guilty of passing judgment based on what we see or hear.
We've all sat and watched the T.V. shows and see how the truth is bent/broken to fit a particular scenario. The ending is nothing like what is presented which, by the way, makes for good movies) and yet, for some undefinable reason we generally have some deluded thought that our legal system is different.
Everyday, in every location, people are found guilty based on evidence (loosely presented) by what prosecutors WANT us to see. However, unless you have a lot of money (OJ Simpson for example)you are going to be found guilty.
How many of you have ever received a ticket for something involving your driving habits but yet you really were innocent? A lot.
Most of you have never stood in front of a judge and seen just how bizarre a courtroom really is. How ridiculous the whole system is. Understand that courtrooms are really just big business. Now, imagine the big business types; Trump, Gates for eg.. Think they've made that much money by being honest? LMAO
They've got "henchmen" that do their bidding.
Those two are poor compared to the government in general. Think the government is honest? puleaase.
If I had the time or the funds, I could demonstrate to all those that think murder for murder is an answer. I could pretty much guarantee that if you had absolutely nothing to do with a crime in particular, that I could have you arrested, convicted and sentenced to death based merely on circumstantial evidence.
Don't get me wrong; if someone harms me or mine (more on the mine part) better watch out, you'll pay and I mean on a personal level.
The government which you all are supporting by saying "hang em' high" is the self-same government that is continuously removing your rights. So, I guess for the hard core types that think something is resolved by big brother kicking a** for you, remember, if you have a big brother you know all to well that he'll kick your a** just 'cause he can as well.
It is my belief that this post is as spot on, as a post can be.
The "death penalty" should be administered by the VICTIM at the time of the CRIME.
Beyond that, in a BETTER system, let the DNA evidence condem the perp.
Bring back public executions either by hanging or firing squads. I will be the first in line to take my kid to see it. Do it within a mile of where the crime was committed too. That should jerk some idiots out of their gang banger MTV fantasy world real f-ing quick.
He said he knew he did not want to get in trouble after that .
Again, death for death is not going to solve anything. I believe that it is statistical that capital punishment is not a cure-all for violent crimes. A deterrent, yes, but if you look around, you'll note that rape, murder and incest, molestation, etc... is still going on. Has damn near since the beginning of time. (Cane and Able)
The transmitter mentioned above could easily be made to release a sleeping agent, a toxin, many things, if one were to travel outside a given perimeter. No big deal.
Just about all crimes could be justified; the only one I cannot justify is rape or molestation. Absolutely no reason one has to do that, none whatsoever. Those transmitters would release toxins that either paralyze or debilitate so that the person can then be justly dealt with. I guess that a device as such would be deemed "cruel and unusual".
Anyway, just some thoughts.
We could easily "watch" those that are violent or in need of serious discipline. Small transmitters could be installed and take the burden off the prison system or more to the point, the taxpayers.
Again, death for death is not going to solve anything. I believe that it is statistical that capital punishment is not a cure-all for violent crimes. A deterrent, yes, but if you look around, you'll note that rape, murder and incest, molestation, etc... is still going on. Has damn near since the beginning of time. (Cane and Able)
The transmitter mentioned above could easily be made to release a sleeping agent, a toxin, many things, if one were to travel outside a given perimeter. No big deal.
Just about all crimes could be justified; the only one I cannot justify is rape or molestation. Absolutely no reason one has to do that, none whatsoever. Those transmitters would release toxins that either paralyze or debilitate so that the person can then be justly dealt with. I guess that a device as such would be deemed "cruel and unusual".
Anyway, just some thoughts.
I disagree with the premise that it does not cure anything. It does. It guarantees that the offender will never do another thing to another person ever again. It deals specifically with the individual, and does not attempt to place the blame or responsibility elsewhere. Using the death penalty as something other than as ultimate punishment for absolutely horrific malum in se acts is assinine. It should not be a deterrent. the only real deterrent should be the fact that if you are in the process of commiting a death-penalty worthy act, it's open season on you, that is all the deterrent that should be necessary.
Death penalty statistics are just numbers. It is impossible to draw conclusions from any of the observations, because the people commiting these acts are of the belief that they will get away with it. that is not deterrence.
I say if you are going to use a transmitter, it should be equipped with a small shaped high explosive charge, instead. trigger it, and it blasts your head off. Cruel or unusual?? no. Why, because this is not punishment. It is a contingency for when a hardened criminal needs neutralized after an escape attempt. Since they "punished" themselves, this wouldn't apply.
When we go to court the whole purpose of the prosecutor is to prove you guilty. This is crazy. His job should be to find out the truth. To many times their overzelous actions have convicted the wrong person. To many times evidence has been hidden from the court for whatever reason. Our system is so flawed it is really crazy.
I am speaking from personal experience on this subject. Myself and several family members and friends were enjoying a night at a local watering hole and I happen to be playing pool with this guy that we had never seen in there before. He had lost like 4 games to me and all of a sudden he started yelling that I was cheating and he wanted his money back. I told him he was crazy and walked off. He decides to come up behind me and hit me in the back of the head with his pool stick. He put 12 stiches in my head. After I got my senses back, I commense to whoop up on this little punk. I got him on the ground and hit him a few more times and finally I let him go. He leaves and a few minutes later the whole bar fills up with cops looking for me and harrassing everyone in the bar. Come to find out this guy was a cop that I had beat up for hitting me in the head with his pool stick.
Well, I was arrested for assault on a police officer and I went straight to jail. I tried to press charges on him but was not allowed to. At the trial I had a court room full of witnesses even the owner of the bar telling what had happened. Didn't matter, he was a police office and according to the DA they do not lie. He said the exact opposite to what had happened. He said that I jumped him first and he was just protecting himself. He also claimed that he had informed me that he was a police officer. Several people testified that this was a lie but the judge went along with the officer and convicted me. I ended up with 6 months of work release and 3 years probation and worse of all a record. I even got up on the stand and demanded that we both take a lie detector test to see who was lying. Of course the DA shut me down really quick on that one. There was no way they were let that officer take a lie detector test.
After I got off of work release, I could not go anywhere without being harraseed by the local cops. I got ticket after ticket. I got pulled over and searched for no reason. They were out to get me for kicking butt on one of their own. Fianlly I had to pay a lawyer $3800.00 to get the Charlotte city cops off my butt.
Well I moved to SC from my home town of over 50 years. I still have to work in Charlotte but the cops no longer harass me any more.
[xx(]