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when will this madness end?

Aaron.Combs1Aaron.Combs1 Member Posts: 217 ✭✭✭
what do you all, in your honest opinion, think it would take to change America back to the why it is supposed to be from the way that it is now? i was thinking about this quite abit last night as i was going to bed. i did not like the answer. just curious as to what your thoughts are. i will reopst with my thoughts and beliefs here in a few days. i am finishing up my draft of all of my thoughts that i am writing down. untill then i look forward to your responses.
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Comments

  • n/an/a Member Posts: 168,427
    edited November -1
    Force.

    Force from the people who understand and know what REAL freedom is.
  • HighballHighball Member Posts: 15,755
    edited November -1
    I have nothing to add to that.
  • jpwolfjpwolf Member Posts: 9,164
    edited November -1
    It certainly won't happen from freewill. We can all see how abused that has become, if we choose to see it.
  • slumlord44slumlord44 Member Posts: 3,702 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Anybody see the recent HBO series on John Adams and the Revoloutionary War?
    The same conditions that caused us to break away from England exist again today. Unreasonable taxes. Taking away various freedoms, and the list goes on. Seems very familiar. The question is, is another revoloution posssible with the people we have in this country today?
  • nyforesternyforester Member Posts: 2,575 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    History has a way of repeating itself............
    Abort Cuomo
  • wsfiredudewsfiredude Member Posts: 7,769 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Sorry for hijacking this thread, but I am going to need some help:


    I have a car. I acquired it used. When it was new, in it's unaltered factory condition, there was no other car like it. But the car has had several owners over the years. Those owners have added parts to the car, and some have taken parts off the car. Some of the parts taken/added have just changed the appearance of the vehicle, but some of the parts taken/added have changed it significantly beneath the exterior, such that it does not operate as it should. The vehicle has been altered to the point where it is almost unrecognizeable from what it was in it's original state. Although it will take major restorative efforts, some of which seem insurmountable, what I want more than anything is to return the vehicle to it's original, unaltered condition so it will function as it was designed to.
  • Lucky_LeftyLucky_Lefty Member Posts: 7,971
    edited November -1
    a problem with a revolution is that it would mean change to the laws that we have now and the constitution would also be changed, and the people are scared now. with the FEMA camps popping up everywhere and the fact that the govnment can throw you in prison for anything for no reason is just to much for people to stand up and fight. I am actually ashamed to say i served my country.. twice it did no good. now i see myself as a true patriot, i want my country back to the way it was. i also think if a woman or a african american( or what ever he is) gets in office it will be worse. we need a leader that can stand up against the government from within and stop all the lobbies from outside influences. as for the people, we are screwed. we are just a number they can track and not enought of us are willing to put everything on the line for that, some are some arent. i personally would love to see a new civil war or revolution because that would mean change, but then the new question would be at what price. each and everyone of us whould have to ask " do i fight or stay out of it and hope i dont get sucked in?".
  • Lucky_LeftyLucky_Lefty Member Posts: 7,971
    edited November -1
    Did i say something wrong?
  • WoundedWolfWoundedWolf Member Posts: 1,658 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    You said nothing wrong Tierne. Look at your service to this country as training and preparation, which will one day be necessary to restore true Liberty to this nation.

    Many of us here know what is required... we are just biding our time.

    -WoundedWolf
  • Lucky_LeftyLucky_Lefty Member Posts: 7,971
    edited November -1
    ok the tread looked to go dead after i posted that.
  • spasmcreekspasmcreek Member Posts: 38,925
    edited November -1
    at earlier times almost all citizens had weapons & knew how to use them to eat & survive...no all powerful federal military to force compliance....now fat wimpy complacent subjects would dither in a panic when their credit card was denied at the checkout counter of wall marts grocery....revolution or force will never be an option in my opinion to hasten a return but rather an overwhelming 3rd party created in original constitutional bent guided by a charismatic leader of great strength & integrity....if not squashed by the power structure in place????
  • 1moreaug1moreaug Member Posts: 11 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I will preface by saying "we" in the following opinion is a general term not necessarily including myself or others reading this but the majority of Americans.

    There will not be a civil war. We have become too "civilized" for that. There will not be a 3rd party to save us because the amount of money that takes is far greater that we are willing to sacrifice. I mean...go without my big screen TV and 900 channels to give $50 to someone who could help us... God forbid. Even if we could rally to get some elected officials in that could turn things around, people would vote them out before they could finish...the pain would be too great. There will not be a return to the U.S.A that we grew up with because those values have been replaced by greed and laziness. If you want to know what will happen to our once great country, study the ancient Romans. We will become less and less powerful and more and more self serving until we simply hand our lives over to someone else to control because it is just easier than doing it ourselves. By that time we will have created such debt that it is impossible to repay. We will have an economy that is solely based on government transactions with nothing really being produced. The people that are subsidized by the government will be the majority and will only vote to receive more subsidizations. Those that still hold to the dreams of their great country will have their rights stripped as traitors or terrorists then be scorned and/or jailed.

    We are close to this point now. This makes me sick. I have 2 beautiful daughters that will have to live in the mess "WE" have made.
  • IAMAHUSKERIAMAHUSKER Member Posts: 2,479 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Yeah, I have twins that will be born (God willing) on the 3rd of June. I sometimes think....what have I done to my kids?? I then just think to myself that, God will not put anything before me that I can not handle.
  • kyplumberkyplumber Member Posts: 11,111
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by 1moreaug
    I will preface by saying "we" in the following opinion is a general term not necessarily including myself or others reading this but the majority of Americans.

    There will not be a civil war. We have become too "civilized" for that. There will not be a 3rd party to save us because the amount of money that takes is far greater that we are willing to sacrifice. I mean...go without my big screen TV and 900 channels to give $50 to someone who could help us... God forbid. Even if we could rally to get some elected officials in that could turn things around, people would vote them out before they could finish...the pain would be too great. There will not be a return to the U.S.A that we grew up with because those values have been replaced by greed and laziness. If you want to know what will happen to our once great country, study the ancient Romans. We will become less and less powerful and more and more self serving until we simply hand our lives over to someone else to control because it is just easier than doing it ourselves. By that time we will have created such debt that it is impossible to repay. We will have an economy that is solely based on government transactions with nothing really being produced. The people that are subsidized by the government will be the majority and will only vote to receive more subsidizations. Those that still hold to the dreams of their great country will have their rights stripped as traitors or terrorists then be scorned and/or jailed.

    We are close to this point now. This makes me sick. I have 2 beautiful daughters that will have to live in the mess "WE" have made.


    bravo...

    now I will go cry...
  • chaoslodgechaoslodge Member Posts: 790 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Aaron.Combs1
    what do you all, in your honest opinion, think it would take to change America back to the why it is supposed to be from the way that it is now? i was thinking about this quite abit last night as i was going to bed. i did not like the answer. just curious as to what your thoughts are. i will reopst with my thoughts and beliefs here in a few days. i am finishing up my draft of all of my thoughts that i am writing down. untill then i look forward to your responses.




    When you do, have someone proof read it and do a spell check. General punctuation and good grammar go a long way in getting your point across whether it is ludicrous or not.
  • Allison9Allison9 Member Posts: 388 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    If we just shoot some of the politicians, thats how it will happen.I can't imagen large field armies like the civil war and revolution. Some sniper fire and few bombs here and there might do the trick.

    The problem, who do we shoot to get a better country. Thats liable to be the real civil war in this country. everyone deciding that they must think like they do.
  • chaoslodgechaoslodge Member Posts: 790 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Anyone who doesn't truly love JESUS should die. That will keep it simple.
  • 1776-19761776-1976 Member Posts: 284 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    As much as I hate to say it nothing short of another revolution could RESTORE our rights, freedoms, and limit government powers to those that OUR founders granted. I believe America needs to return to the AMERICA our founders created. As hard as it is for some to accept our government has become FAR to corrupt to reform on its own.
  • RogueStatesmanRogueStatesman Member Posts: 5,760
    edited November -1
    Amen to All who support the upcoming, necessary revolution! Praise be to GOD and ... pass the ammunition!
  • 1moreaug1moreaug Member Posts: 11 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    All of the people that think a revolution would be fun must not have thought about this too well.
    Everyone thinks they are going to join together and start shooting??? What/Who are you shooting? Your neighbor that works for Game & Fish? Cops? The clerk at the grocery store because they believe in strict anti-gun laws?? The parents of the kid that sits next to yours in 5th grade because they live on welfare? Maybe a senator or mayor or some other politician because their views are different than yours?

    Think it through. A civil war is ugly. Good-bye to the comfort of your bed. Good-bye to your morning Starbucks. Good-bye to your hobbies. Good-bye to sleeping, eating, working, when you feel like it. You will be hungry, thirsty, sick, cold (or hot), tired, dirty, in pain, desperate, and weak.

    I know... you will steal everything you need and kill those that get in your way. To me that sounds more like a gang or the mafia. Who makes the decision on what you are actually fighting for? Who makes the decision on who lives and who dies? Every man for himself? That would work out great for the government because that only leads to internal fighting and eventually dissolution.

    It makes me nervous that so many people think starting a civil war begins with killing people. If your life is not physically in danger watching people die is not fun. You will begin to think of their kids, wives, parents. You will begin to wonder what that death really achieved to reach your end result.
  • chaoslodgechaoslodge Member Posts: 790 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by 1moreaug
    All of the people that think a revolution would be fun must not have thought about this too well.
    Everyone thinks they are going to join together and start shooting??? What/Who are you shooting? Your neighbor that works for Game & Fish? Cops? The clerk at the grocery store because they believe in strict anti-gun laws?? The parents of the kid that sits next to yours in 5th grade because they live on welfare? Maybe a senator or mayor or some other politician because their views are different than yours?

    Think it through. A civil war is ugly. Good-bye to the comfort of your bed. Good-bye to your morning Starbucks. Good-bye to your hobbies. Good-bye to sleeping, eating, working, when you feel like it. You will be hungry, thirsty, sick, cold (or hot), tired, dirty, in pain, desperate, and weak.

    I know... you will steal everything you need and kill those that get in your way. To me that sounds more like a gang or the mafia. Who makes the decision on what you are actually fighting for? Who makes the decision on who lives and who dies? Every man for himself? That would work out great for the government because that only leads to internal fighting and eventually dissolution.

    It makes me nervous that so many people think starting a civil war begins with killing people. If your life is not physically in danger watching people die is not fun. You will begin to think of their kids, wives, parents. You will begin to wonder what that death really achieved to reach your end result.



    SISSY!
  • n/an/a Member Posts: 168,427
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by 1moreaug
    All of the people that think a revolution would be fun must not have thought about this too well.
    Everyone thinks they are going to join together and start shooting??? What/Who are you shooting? Your neighbor that works for Game & Fish? Cops? The clerk at the grocery store because they believe in strict anti-gun laws?? The parents of the kid that sits next to yours in 5th grade because they live on welfare? Maybe a senator or mayor or some other politician because their views are different than yours?

    Think it through. A civil war is ugly. Good-bye to the comfort of your bed. Good-bye to your morning Starbucks. Good-bye to your hobbies. Good-bye to sleeping, eating, working, when you feel like it. You will be hungry, thirsty, sick, cold (or hot), tired, dirty, in pain, desperate, and weak.

    I know... you will steal everything you need and kill those that get in your way. To me that sounds more like a gang or the mafia. Who makes the decision on what you are actually fighting for? Who makes the decision on who lives and who dies? Every man for himself? That would work out great for the government because that only leads to internal fighting and eventually dissolution.

    It makes me nervous that so many people think starting a civil war begins with killing people. If your life is not physically in danger watching people die is not fun. You will begin to think of their kids, wives, parents. You will begin to wonder what that death really achieved to reach your end result.



    Sounds to me like your the one whom needs to do some thinking. Revolutionaries ARE NOT looking to bleed our neighbors.

    They want the return of their liberties and for the government to leave them the hell alone.

    The government has ALLREADY needlessly shed the blood of the citizens. They have attacked US both psyically, mentally, and financially. Perhaps you enjoy life in chains, but those that UNDERSTAND what liberty is all about, will not stand for it.


    "If there is to be trouble, let it be in MY day, so that my CHILDREN may have peace."

    Those words mean multitudes to those whom love God, Country, and family.
  • 1moreaug1moreaug Member Posts: 11 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    So are you suggesting that we begin by taking our guns and killing people? Who do you want to start with? The people you want to go to war with don't even know you are at war with them. Shouldn't you at least begin with a list of demands?

    I am not the one that is a sissy. I never said I wouldn't fight for my rights BUT I am not a vigilante. I expect that there would first be some type of structured organization. Then I would think those in that organization would somehow elect leaders that pretty much held the same beliefs as the rest of the organization. After that I would expect that group to begin acting as if they were a separate entity from those that were not part of the group. New currency, different laws, new allegiances, etc. I would not expect any bloodshed until there was some type of opposition from the current leaders for creating this new entity. I don't know at what point this opposition would occur. Maybe at the first meeting...maybe the group would become quite strong before it was opposed. Considering how no one wants to tread on anyone elses "right" to do whatever they want, maybe they would just laugh about it until they began to feel uncomfortable.

    Whatever the case, there is no country I know of where a successful revolution began by random terrorists committing random acts of violence against people that the majority of the population felt were not deserving of such violence. There is usually a funded organization (whether funded by its' own members or by others) that follows a strict plan and a direct line of leadership. What most of you have suggested is anarchy. That would be worse than the current conditions since there would be no central values and everyone would fight for whatever he feels is right.
  • chaoslodgechaoslodge Member Posts: 790 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
  • 1moreaug1moreaug Member Posts: 11 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Oh, I didn't get it before but now I see. Thanks.
  • firstfireeaterfirstfireeater Member Posts: 9 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I think the name of that structured organization you mentioned was the Confederate States of America. Didn't work out too well for them.
  • 1moreaug1moreaug Member Posts: 11 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by firstfireeater
    I think the name of that structured organization you mentioned was the Confederate States of America. Didn't work out too well for them.


    EXACTLY! What makes anyone think that a revolution would work without structure or leadership when it failed even with those things. They gave it a good try though. I think some people think anarchy is a form of government.
  • firstfireeaterfirstfireeater Member Posts: 9 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Anarchy only lasts quite a little while. By and by the Big Stick policy seems to take over and those with the most power (whatever form it may be) have the most control. Very seldom can these people give up this power in the name of democracy.
  • BlairweescotBlairweescot Member Posts: 2,014 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I have met and talked to anarchists. First I ask them who gets rid of the trash that they generate when it's anarchy rule

    Mostly they look at me as if they can't imagine the trash doesn't dispose of itself. If they don't, I say, "Give me your wallet"

    If they don't like the idea that I'm demanding their possessions, I tell them that anarchy is more than a fashion statement. If they say "take it if you can", I reply that if I actually wanted it, I would have kicked them in the nuts by now instead of talking to them. Incidentally, I have never talked to a female pro-anarchist. They are all tough guy males. Apparently women like the idea of trash removal, so on at least one subject, they and I agree

    Anarchy seems like Step One on the road to Communism to me
  • 1moreaug1moreaug Member Posts: 11 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    So at least some of agree that grabbing a gun and shooting people that disagree with us is not the answer to bringing America back to her once powerful and envied position. Nor is it the solution to bringing the rights back to the honest, hard-working, patriotic, citizens and taking them away from the criminals and deadbeats.

    That said, is there actually a solution? Is it too late? Is there any way for us to agree on a basic set of fundamentals that we are willing to actually work for? Not a bunch of people with guns waving in the face of those that don't agree but a bunch of people willing to spend their time and money to fight for those values. Buying only from others that feel the same way, hiring only others that feel the same way, spending time writing letters explaining the movement, talking freely about the changes that need to take place, helping those that need help but not those that are trying to get something for nothing.

    We would need to move beyond thinking about race, religion, financial status, education, etc... and be a united group based on moving our country back into the worlds most coveted piece of dirt on earth.

    Is that too much to ask?
  • HighballHighball Member Posts: 15,755
    edited November -1
    The simple minded.or perhaps the apologists for the Beast ..seem to feel that any departure from tyranny leads inevitably to anarchy.

    They seem to forget the 100 years before the war ..before the government got big enough to meddle in everybody's life. Then the next hundred ..as the citizens built on the foundations laid previously.and ignore what has taken place in the last 50 years as the government strangled free enterprise and replaced it with capitalism.

    Pick up your trash, indeed. In a functioning society, private enterprise does these jobs.I see no conflict at all with freedom.

    You that see no possibility of society functioning without the heavy hand of government back-handing you for any departure from its deadening influence are indeed New Americans.unfit to shine a free mans boots.
  • 1moreaug1moreaug Member Posts: 11 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    It seems that I am being misunderstood. I am not against taking up arms to defend myself or my constitutional rights. I believe that there are times when that is required. I just fear that too many people see that as the first event in a reformation. Today is not 100 years before the war. Today is a time when law abiding citizens are jailed for breaking the same laws that criminals are put on probation for. I don't believe that an individual will make much headway in convincing others that their rights are about to be stripped by using force. The media, the liberal groups, the politicians will all make it seem to be just another reason to promote their anti-gun rhetoric.

    I simply believe there must be some type of united effort to protest before all hell breaks out. I think a good start would be not buying or doing business with any organization that doesn't defend our constitution. Rosie O'Donnell, Wal-Mart, NBC... Yes, everyone thinks it is easy to pull a trigger and solve the problem. Try not buying from anyone that advertises on NBC, CBS, or ABC for awhile. Try sending a letter explaining what is happening to our country to your liberal co workers. Doesn't anyone want to make a clear statement to the public what we are fighting for before we all start doing the very things they scorn us for?

    Finally, a story:
    A man was walking home wearing a heavy overcoat. The wind made a bet with the sun that he could get the coat off the man faster than the sun could. The sun took the bet and the wind began to blow. The harder he blew the tighter the man wrapped himself in the coat...turning his back to the wind and even bending down to hold on tighter. When the wind gave up, the sun came out. As the sun shone down the man began to get warm and eventually took off his coat. The moral... people tend to do what you want them to do if they think they are not being forced to do it.
  • HighballHighball Member Posts: 15,755
    edited November -1
    You see anyone here advocating taking a rifle and running out into the street today ?
    If so...you terrible misjudge the intelligence of the posters.

    Naturally, if you are on the other side, this is a good thing.

    I cannot speak for the rest.but for myself, the `protests', the letters, the begging of politicians, the voting for a `good man'.are over.

    We have had our preliminary petitioning of the King to please obey the rule of law..to enforce the Constitution.

    I have no more time, energy, money or thought processes to waste on a hopeless effort.

    No.I am content to peacefully await for the Beast to stick its stinking claws far enough into the fabric of Americans Lives it cannot withdraw it in time.and then aid my fellow countrymen in the effort to cut that stinking claw off.
  • 1moreaug1moreaug Member Posts: 11 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Highball
    You see anyone here advocating taking a rifle and running out into the street today ?
    If so...you terrible misjudge the intelligence of the posters.

    Rogue statesman on 5-19-08 seemed to imply that
    Allison9 says we need to kill politicians

    Naturally, if you are on the other side, this is a good thing.

    I am on the side that wants the entire country to know what is going on and how it hurts us all. Every one of us here knows that our rights are being slowly, quietly pulled from us but the general public thinks it is only crazies they are after. Most people don't know crime rises when the population is not allowed to have weapons. Most people don't realize that gun owners are normal men and women that have other similar interests and families that they have. Thanks to the media portraying us as blood starved lunatics that are itching for the first opportunity to pull the trigger.

    I cannot speak for the rest.but for myself, the `protests', the letters, the begging of politicians, the voting for a `good man'.are over.
    Voting for the good man is certainly over. It is all about money. The media and Hollywood have it and the politicians want it. The current best tactic is to give your money to the businesses and services that support our views and do not patronize those businesses that don't. The second best tactic is educate the public as mentioned above

    We have had our preliminary petitioning of the King to please obey the rule of law..to enforce the Constitution.

    The King only cares about your money. Quit giving your money to him until he enforces the Constitution and eventually he will. This is where it gets tough. You will go to jail as an individual and everyone will only know you as another tax evader or loony. As a group of millions, they will either be heard or dealt with.

    I have no more time, energy, money or thought processes to waste on a hopeless effort.

    Actually, our entire lives are a hopeless effort. From the moment you are born, you are destined for death. For some reason we find a reason to fight through every new day.

    No.I am content to peacefully await for the Beast to stick its stinking claws far enough into the fabric of Americans Lives it cannot withdraw it in time.and then aid my fellow countrymen in the effort to cut that stinking claw off.

    And by acting alone and not attempting to educate others you will be remembered as another nut that the government had to crack. The media will portray you as a criminal and a terrorist. I think you are just a guy that wants to be a proud American but has become frustrated with the way the system has been raped by self serving politicians. I think that only because I often feel that way myself.
  • springmanspringman Member Posts: 6 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by chaoslodge
    Anyone who doesn't truly love JESUS should die. That will keep it simple.

    As a non-religious vet I find the above insulting and is more dangerous to OUR country than anything else. I did not serve and bleed to live in a theocracy.

    For ever vigilant!
    For ever armed!
  • springmanspringman Member Posts: 6 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by 1776-1976
    As much as I hate to say it nothing short of another revolution could RESTORE our rights, freedoms, and limit government powers to those that OUR founders granted. I believe America needs to return to the AMERICA our founders created. As hard as it is for some to accept our government has become FAR to corrupt to reform on its own.

    I hate to be the one to tell you but the US Gov. has been corrupt since the beginning. During the Revolution many of the pols. were as bad as G.W. bushy when it came to war profitering etc.
  • jedwiljedwil Member Posts: 41 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Aaron.Combs1
    what do you all, in your honest opinion, think it would take to change America back to the why it is supposed to be from the way that it is now? i was thinking about this quite abit last night as i was going to bed. i did not like the answer. just curious as to what your thoughts are. i will reopst with my thoughts and beliefs here in a few days. i am finishing up my draft of all of my thoughts that i am writing down. untill then i look forward to your responses.



    I am afraid it would take several events larger than 911....
    Thanks for your service......2ID '69-'70
  • torquimatatorquimata Member Posts: 200 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I, for one, am taking the easy way out, Bought a small farm in Pa. and my view of the world ends at my fence line. Any politoco, or their ilk, that shows up to "help" me will be sent packing. I will do my best to develop a cash business so my income will be,more or less, unable to be quantified thereby reducing how much of it I am forced to have re-distributed by the King's tax men.


    I used to be a Republican but switched to being a Libertarian a number of years ago.Less government is more but can't see that changing in several lifetimes. Consequently, I'm preparing my farm for my son so his exposure to the government machine will be minimized. By the way, I was born and raised right out side NYC so I've seen firsthand all the societal ills that plague this country. I would encourage all that can to start a trend exactly opposite of the migration to the cities that occurred in the late 1800's- move the heck away from the urban areas whenever possible!
  • firstfireeaterfirstfireeater Member Posts: 9 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I hate to think that the system can't be fixed, but I have trouble seeing how it could. Speaking in terms of revolution means that the system has completely collapsed or at the very least our rights (priveleges as it were) have been removed. I don't want either situation. I don't want the system contuinuing into communism. And I sure don't want the revolution to begin. I am not at all looking forward to having to defend my home. Am I able to? I can certainly defend against knuckleheads attempting to break in and remove what is mine. Or those with more malignant purposes in mind. But the government? Not really. Not if they are intent on removing me. Does this mean I wouldn't still fight? Of course not. But to look at this as anything more than simply standing for what I believe in is ridiculous. I don't think we can change the course of history like others before us. I think that even though there are so many of us gun owners, we are unable to change policy through the conventional means because public opinion seems to be shifting away from our ideals. And these are the people who oppose us. I am sure almost all of us know people who would quietly lay down their arms if it came down to keeping them and dying or giving them up and seeing their children every day. Until the day comes when someone in some official capacity comes to take my liberties from me, I don't know what I can do beyond weep for what should be.
  • 1moreaug1moreaug Member Posts: 11 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote: But to look at this as anything more than simply standing for what I believe in is ridiculous.


    AMEN! There are people here that don't see the difference in that and a revolution. Maybe that is a personal revolution or something but not something that will change the course of history.
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