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ECC
Yes you are very close to my setting.
at 1000 drop is -365" based on 146 clicks at 1/4".( 2.5" at 1000 )
At 1500 the nearest I can figure is about 1177"drop or close to 78.5 moa.
It would be a good test to see what range my bullets keyhole.
I test with 2 cardboard targets one is 60"X60" with a 15" orange dot on it,This is for finding aim point because a bigger target cost less in ammo than missed shots.The second target is 40"X40" with a 15" orange dot on it. I use this after I get my aim point worked out.
I set the scope at its 1000yd zero,aim it at the target then set the power down to about 3.5X with the target still in sight (this changes the mil size bigger)raze it up 5 mils and shoot. you need calm conditions.
Yes 36.5MOA ( or 146 clicks )+ 5 mils on 3.5X at 1500yards.
If you have a Leupold M1 or a Super Sniper 10X with 20moa scope base you should be able to turn it up with about 5 turns on the turret or about 78 moa.(This is an estimation! )
I am new to this form, But I have been an target shooter for a long time, and I have shot against $400 and up scopes. Your scope is only as good as you are. I seen someone write that shooting at 100 yards doesn't mean a thing. it shows that you don't shoot as much as you say you do. I have 5 5X20X50 tasco's and they work just fine. 2 are on magnum calibers and they are in line time after time. I will shoot between 700 1000 rounds in a years time and I have never had an issue with the scopes I use. I think people should post the facts on here instead of hammering people who don't use what you use. I'll take my $100 tasco and shoot in the same hole at 100 yards with more than 1 of my guns. so put that in your $1000 dollar scope and look through it.
I will agree that your scope is only as good as you are but we are not talking about that. We are talking about the quality of glass.
100.00 to 200.00 scopes vs stuff in the 1000.00 range. Some claim that the 100.00 and 200.00 scopes can do what these higher end pieces of glass can do. I am just simply saying NO they can't.
Now if you spent most of your days sitting on the 100yard line, sure your Tasco can do the same thing as my Loopy or NF. Now lets back it up a few hundred yards and then tweek with your elevation and windage over and over and see if it holds zero.
Also lets see that piece of glass resolve mirage on a 100 degree day.
Don't get your panties in a bunch for no reason bud, I am not bashing anyone and any piece of equipment. Just saying some do things others cant and you get what you pay for.
Moderators: If I am out of line, sorry. Will stop posting if "feelings" are getting hurt due to my difference in opinion. [:D]
100 yard shooting doesn't have to take into account all the factors that go into shooting 1000 yards. so i would suggest that you take your tasco, find a 100 yard range, and go see what you can see, or hit with it. i had a 223 heavy barrel 700 with a 4-16x tasco on it and it would shoot a ragged hole at 100 yards. 100 yard shooting doesn't really mean a thing at 1000 yards. you aren't but a 10th of the way there. i believe it shows what little you really know about 1000 yard shooting. also while writing this, i recall that the burris fullfield has a light transmission of 95% vari-x 1 is from 83-87% and a vx-II is from 85-88%. food for thought.
Okay, a free opinion. You get what you pay for (this included). If you shoot mostly range, or varmints, or casual, the quality is not as critical. My wife uses a Simmons for her indoor small bore competition, and it works exceedingly well for that. I prefer Leupold,or Burris, as I might be out in sub zero temps, wind,rain,and snow for days. In poor light. In heavy timber. In open fields. At dusk. In hot weather. Leupold has world class customer service. Try sending a Weaver back. They have changed hands more than a dollar bill. And they won't recognize anything not made by the current owner. I have a Simmons on my .22. The brand name was put on upside down. How's that for quality control? On a technical note, the better scopes usually have much more eye relief (up to an inch more), a big factor when shooting heavy kickers, or from awkward positions (hunting). And you get larger exit pupils, for low light resolution. If I have a problem (caused usually by me) Burris or Leupold fixes it. Usualy at "No charge". Most ot the other brands I have used can't (or Won't) do that. I can't afford better, but I won't settle for less.And granted, we are all prisoners of our own experience. DEP
The simmons and tasco stuff is fine for 100yds, BUT, that is relative. I competed in a 100yd factory class match a few months back. The day was 103* under the roof of the firing line[xx(] and with that heat and very little wind, I had a great chance to check out some optics. I mosied around just bending over and looking through various scopes down the line (being careful not to touch anyones equipment). The leuoplds beat the simmons and tascos scopes HANDS DOWN for resolving mirage (that is not to say it was gone, but much better). Another very improtant thing is the ability to adjust out parallax. These $200 scopes had noticeable parallax as well. In the end, I was very pleased with my choice to top that rifle with the 5.5-22x56 Nightforce NXS as I knew for a fact that my glass was the best on the line, and in 103* temps with a rolling boil at even 100yds, glass makes a lot of points possible that the other scopes leave to the shooters who have the glass.
contacfront. What I was trying to say was that unless you are shooting in comp groups you don't need to buy high end scopes to shoot well. and as far as backing up a couple 100 more yards lets say 300 to 350 i still don't need to adjust my windage or elevation. and it's hot here also. the point I am trying to make is if you want to shoot well and hit what you are shooting at on the range and while hunting you do not need to shell out $1000 of dollars on overpriced optics. Would you take a 1000 dollar scope in the brush. I would not.
I came to this form to see if anyone has any first hand experance with Browning A-Bolt Varmint Stalker in 25 WSSM. Then when I got to reading about the optics I had to comment. So if anyone out there has first hand tested A-Bolt varmint Stalker in 25 WSSM i would like to hear from you.
bperdue21. You are truly the type of person I would like to shoot against. I Have shot in 1000 yard matches and I did not use a Tasco. What I was commenting on was that you don't need them Unless you are a comp shooter.
How many Gold medals do you have for shooting.
To answer your first question about taking my expensive glass in the field. Yes I do, each and every time I go out to do long range training (not on a range) or hunt I take my Loopy Mark 4 or my NF NXS.
Why? Not because I am some rich A-HOLE that can afford to buy this stuff, but I am a * A-HOLE that would rather save a extra 6 months to buy equipment that has a less chance of failure out in the field.
Think about all the time, effort, resources, time away from family that you have to put in to go hunting or shooting...then to have a piece of equipment fail and ruin the trip? How screwed up would that be?
Or when there is a nice pig or deer showing up at dusk I want to be able to make that shot in low light conditions with confidence.
No hard feelings with anyone here man, just difference in opinions. We are all out here supporting the same cause....[:)]
[:D][:D][:D] All I can say, is what I said in my original post in this thread (I think). You get what you pay for. Contact and Bperdue could not have said it better. I don't have much extra $$$, so I have to save longer to get good optics...but I'm not going to put a junk scope on any of my rifles. The cheapest scope I have is on a .22 Mag and it's a $300 Bushnell that I bought before I knew any better. Optics are one thing not worth skimping on...especially when you are shooting for ulitmate accuracy and at long distances.
Shooot. I am just glad I am not the only one pinching pennies to buy good optics. My friends think I am nuts for waiting 6 to 8 months to buy ONE piece of glass.
quote:Originally posted by ContacFront
Shooot. I am just glad I am not the only one pinching pennies to buy good optics. My friends think I am nuts for waiting 6 to 8 months to buy ONE piece of glass.
It takes me at least that long...and I have not made the leap to NightForce yet[^]...I cannot wait to get one though![:p]
Once you go to the DARK SIDE you will not go back. Let me know when you are ready.... I may be able to find you a decent deal out this way with a buddy of mine that is a dealer.
Now I am trying to make the leap to US Optics and Schmidt & Bender. [}:)]
My first post on this sight. I hunt with my equipment so it must hold up. So I have learned through the years to purchase "enough". What that means is buy at least the minimum neccessary for what you are doing. Here we hunt deer with shotguns or muzzle loaders. No need for 1000 yard optics. I have Bushnel Trophy scopes mounted on my (and my son's) slug guns and have shot a couple pretty nice bucks the last 2 years in the last 5 minutes of legal light on cloudy days. The last one at 131 yards (measured later with a brother in law and a range finder). If I could rifle hunt here and wanted to shoot 400+ yards I would but enough scope to do it. And yes I have in the past done that. My advice is buy the best you can reasonably afford without getting carried away. Then take the extra $1000 and go on another hunt. If shooting is your hobby by all means out buy your competition. I wouldn't race the Indy 500 in my pickup.
Another thought, given the choice of going hunting with a 300 yard rifle or sitting at home looking at my 600 yard rifle, I'm going hunting. If you can afford it buy the best, if not hunt within the limits of what you have. I am wrestling with this subject lately myself. I want to buy one rifle to hunt everything from antelope to moose. I'm probably going to buy one of the 300 mags, maybe a 300 wsm, and would like optics capable of 600 yards. But I have never tried to go that far and I don't know for sure what to put on it. I like the raingaurd on the 4200 (it is going to be a hunting rifle) but I don't know if it has enough optics. I'll probably never shoot at an animal at 600 yards but would like my equipment to be capable. I, like most I assume, want to know if I miss it is my fault and not my equipment. Thoughts????
Have always owned Leupolds and they have done me well in all kinds of hunting situations. However, I lived in Europe for a while and put a Schmidt & Bender on my Sako, and what a difference. Save and go big, you will not regret it.
Hot Topic!!! It seems that certain folks have made ample justification for both the "expensive"...and the "not so" expensive.
My big game hunting began in 1958...and with the Lord and dollars providing...hopefully I will continue to get "out there"! Most of my scopes early-on were Redfields. They worked great...and if one fogged-up, Redfield would fix it quick...at no charge. In 1971 I purchased a Leupold M-8 four power and put it on a new Ruger 77 270.
Both gun and scope are right on target...over 30 years later! I think back then I paid about $60 bucks for that scope. Now it seems anything over $150 is sticker shock!
In the last few years I have found what I think is one of the best values around...Bushnell Sportview 3-9x38. These scopes can be purchased at SWFA (riflescopes.com) for $37. OK...Don't laugh but I swear by them! They have a gloss finish and I don't believe Bushnell makes them anymore...but the last I checked SWFA had over a hundred of them.
Another one is a VERY INEXPENSIVE Tasco in 2 1/2 power with very brilliant optics...first it's hard to find a straight 2 1/2 power anything...and second...don't laugh but they cost about $29!!!
Let me finish by saying...I do not hunt "Dangerous Game"!!!
Thanks for reading!!!
David
An add-on experience...A few years ago I went to a guy's house who was selling his collection of "Big Dangerous Game Rifles"...Most were .338's (He loved the .338)! I believe he had a couple of .375's and a couple of .300 Mags.
Guess what??? ALL of them had inexpensive Bushnell Scopes! He told me that he had owned some Bausch & Lomb's...but he could not tell the difference! He was a true Big Game hunter who had many trophy's from Africa...and other places.
Like most of the previous post state....you will not see a dramatic difference through a scope at close ranges or in fair conditions.
Also I am not surprised at all that that your buddy that hunted big game in Africa did not have some high end piece of glass because most of the game taken there are at very close ranges, 50 meters or so. No need to dial for windage or elevation at that range.
I will add to this discussion based on my experience with cheap scopes and I've tried them all. Leave the $30 dollar ones alone period regardless of brand. I shoot mostly slug guns here and they don't hold up. What I use is Bushnel Trophy 3x9x40 rifle scopes on my slug guns. They draw more light than shotgun scopes and let me get the range these new slug guns are capable of. Lesser won't work and more is a waste of money for the intended use. I've shot a deer this year on a cloudy day in the last 5 minutes of shooting time at 131 yards (later measured).
My experience is with the cheaper scopes ( I mean $80-120) Bushnel is the best performer. You go on up to 500+ and I need advice which I ask for and got here.
The scope that came with my new rifle package will work for the time being as I acclimate my self to the new rifle and best load while punching paper at 100yds. When the time comes to hit the field and start looking for the 300+yd shots I will have purchased and sited and better quality scope.
One of the biggest differences in the less expensive scopes and a medium priced scope like a Leupold or Burris is the eye relief. The greater eye relief is a great benefit in larger caliber rifles and to quickly find your target.
Comments
So when do you think the 168 goes subsonic?
So do you get keyholing on your target?
What rifle and tube is this out of?
Yes you are very close to my setting.
at 1000 drop is -365" based on 146 clicks at 1/4".( 2.5" at 1000 )
At 1500 the nearest I can figure is about 1177"drop or close to 78.5 moa.
It would be a good test to see what range my bullets keyhole.
So you dial in your 1000yard Zero and then hold over 5 mils to get out to 1500yards?
37MOA + 5 mils @ 1500yards?
I set the scope at its 1000yd zero,aim it at the target then set the power down to about 3.5X with the target still in sight (this changes the mil size bigger)raze it up 5 mils and shoot. you need calm conditions.
Yes 36.5MOA ( or 146 clicks )+ 5 mils on 3.5X at 1500yards.
If you have a Leupold M1 or a Super Sniper 10X with 20moa scope base you should be able to turn it up with about 5 turns on the turret or about 78 moa.(This is an estimation! )
This is with your XOTIC correct?
Because they only go down to 4X, not 3.5X.
Sendero 06
I will agree that your scope is only as good as you are but we are not talking about that. We are talking about the quality of glass.
100.00 to 200.00 scopes vs stuff in the 1000.00 range. Some claim that the 100.00 and 200.00 scopes can do what these higher end pieces of glass can do. I am just simply saying NO they can't.
Now if you spent most of your days sitting on the 100yard line, sure your Tasco can do the same thing as my Loopy or NF. Now lets back it up a few hundred yards and then tweek with your elevation and windage over and over and see if it holds zero.
Also lets see that piece of glass resolve mirage on a 100 degree day.
Don't get your panties in a bunch for no reason bud, I am not bashing anyone and any piece of equipment. Just saying some do things others cant and you get what you pay for.
Moderators: If I am out of line, sorry. Will stop posting if "feelings" are getting hurt due to my difference in opinion. [:D]
100yard is fine but i've learned that loads that shoot great at 100yards don't mean jack down range sometimes.
I learned my lesson with my 308. Now I load test at 300yards to start.
I came to this form to see if anyone has any first hand experance with Browning A-Bolt Varmint Stalker in 25 WSSM. Then when I got to reading about the optics I had to comment. So if anyone out there has first hand tested A-Bolt varmint Stalker in 25 WSSM i would like to hear from you.
How many Gold medals do you have for shooting.
To answer your first question about taking my expensive glass in the field. Yes I do, each and every time I go out to do long range training (not on a range) or hunt I take my Loopy Mark 4 or my NF NXS.
Why? Not because I am some rich A-HOLE that can afford to buy this stuff, but I am a * A-HOLE that would rather save a extra 6 months to buy equipment that has a less chance of failure out in the field.
Think about all the time, effort, resources, time away from family that you have to put in to go hunting or shooting...then to have a piece of equipment fail and ruin the trip? How screwed up would that be?
Or when there is a nice pig or deer showing up at dusk I want to be able to make that shot in low light conditions with confidence.
No hard feelings with anyone here man, just difference in opinions. We are all out here supporting the same cause....[:)]
Shooot. I am just glad I am not the only one pinching pennies to buy good optics. My friends think I am nuts for waiting 6 to 8 months to buy ONE piece of glass.
It takes me at least that long...and I have not made the leap to NightForce yet[^]...I cannot wait to get one though![:p]
Now I am trying to make the leap to US Optics and Schmidt & Bender. [}:)]
My first post on this sight. I hunt with my equipment so it must hold up. So I have learned through the years to purchase "enough". What that means is buy at least the minimum neccessary for what you are doing. Here we hunt deer with shotguns or muzzle loaders. No need for 1000 yard optics. I have Bushnel Trophy scopes mounted on my (and my son's) slug guns and have shot a couple pretty nice bucks the last 2 years in the last 5 minutes of legal light on cloudy days. The last one at 131 yards (measured later with a brother in law and a range finder). If I could rifle hunt here and wanted to shoot 400+ yards I would but enough scope to do it. And yes I have in the past done that. My advice is buy the best you can reasonably afford without getting carried away. Then take the extra $1000 and go on another hunt. If shooting is your hobby by all means out buy your competition. I wouldn't race the Indy 500 in my pickup.
I am going to start a new thread.
600yard rig for hunting.
My big game hunting began in 1958...and with the Lord and dollars providing...hopefully I will continue to get "out there"! Most of my scopes early-on were Redfields. They worked great...and if one fogged-up, Redfield would fix it quick...at no charge. In 1971 I purchased a Leupold M-8 four power and put it on a new Ruger 77 270.
Both gun and scope are right on target...over 30 years later! I think back then I paid about $60 bucks for that scope. Now it seems anything over $150 is sticker shock!
In the last few years I have found what I think is one of the best values around...Bushnell Sportview 3-9x38. These scopes can be purchased at SWFA (riflescopes.com) for $37. OK...Don't laugh but I swear by them! They have a gloss finish and I don't believe Bushnell makes them anymore...but the last I checked SWFA had over a hundred of them.
Another one is a VERY INEXPENSIVE Tasco in 2 1/2 power with very brilliant optics...first it's hard to find a straight 2 1/2 power anything...and second...don't laugh but they cost about $29!!!
Let me finish by saying...I do not hunt "Dangerous Game"!!!
Thanks for reading!!!
David
Guess what??? ALL of them had inexpensive Bushnell Scopes! He told me that he had owned some Bausch & Lomb's...but he could not tell the difference! He was a true Big Game hunter who had many trophy's from Africa...and other places.
Interesting...
Also I am not surprised at all that that your buddy that hunted big game in Africa did not have some high end piece of glass because most of the game taken there are at very close ranges, 50 meters or so. No need to dial for windage or elevation at that range.
My experience is with the cheaper scopes ( I mean $80-120) Bushnel is the best performer. You go on up to 500+ and I need advice which I ask for and got here.
Anyway my 2 cents if it helps........Scout