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260 remington build
uni82
Member Posts: 416 ✭✭
Alright fellas, I have a couple of questions. Finally going to pull the trigger on a 260 build (no long the 7mm wsm due to recoil and lots of research).
If I were to buy a remington 700 ADL in a youth 243 with the x pro trigger, will that suffice? I.E. Sell the barrel, stock, xpro trigger scope (its a package) and mounts just to keep the action. Then...
Upgrade to a mcmillian a-3 adjustable stock, 26" krieger barrel, better mounts and optics, detachable magazine and then a jewell trigger and a bipod.
Can that be done to a youth 700 action or am I figuring something wrong? Are all Remington 700 actions created equal (SPS, XCR, VTR, BDL, ADL)???? I am only talking about the action. I am aware that they are all are different bolt faces, long vs short, etc.
This build (hopefully) will introduce me to the 600 yard club with a nice tactical 260 remington?
The 260 is a light recoiling round that can send bullets down range at exceptional FPS with great B.C. I think that it is a great round. Now that lapua makes brass for it as well with maximum consistency.
The main purpose of this build is to shoot at 600+ yards and maybe hunting long range.
Thank you for all your help and time that is invested to my confusing question.
I really appreciate it.
Best,
-Joe
p.s. anyone want to buy a 1938 Nagoya arisaka with the mum intact to fund my new project (all original).
Thanks!
If I were to buy a remington 700 ADL in a youth 243 with the x pro trigger, will that suffice? I.E. Sell the barrel, stock, xpro trigger scope (its a package) and mounts just to keep the action. Then...
Upgrade to a mcmillian a-3 adjustable stock, 26" krieger barrel, better mounts and optics, detachable magazine and then a jewell trigger and a bipod.
Can that be done to a youth 700 action or am I figuring something wrong? Are all Remington 700 actions created equal (SPS, XCR, VTR, BDL, ADL)???? I am only talking about the action. I am aware that they are all are different bolt faces, long vs short, etc.
This build (hopefully) will introduce me to the 600 yard club with a nice tactical 260 remington?
The 260 is a light recoiling round that can send bullets down range at exceptional FPS with great B.C. I think that it is a great round. Now that lapua makes brass for it as well with maximum consistency.
The main purpose of this build is to shoot at 600+ yards and maybe hunting long range.
Thank you for all your help and time that is invested to my confusing question.
I really appreciate it.
Best,
-Joe
p.s. anyone want to buy a 1938 Nagoya arisaka with the mum intact to fund my new project (all original).
Thanks!
Comments
All of the Remington M700 actions are the same no matter which model is chosen as long as you specify Long Action or Short Action. Obviously the M7 and the XR actions are different.
You can buy the youth model and strip/sell it but I suggest that you consider the following:
The action will still need to be 'blueprinted' in order to create the best potential for consistent accuracy at the longer ranges. So instead of doing the above then investing money in the blueprinting, you can go online to find just an action which has already been blueprinted. Be sure that the blueprinting was done by an accuracy gunsmith and not some internet wannabe.
The McM A3 is a fine stock for both types of shooting. Krieger barrels are top-of-the-line, although I will suggest that you talk with them about the 5R rifling instead of the standard.
This starts to sound redundant but be sure to invest in the best glass available, you will never regret it. Also buy the best rings and base for your pursuit.
Detachable magazines are not all created equal no matter what the price. The less expensive brands are exactly that, less expensive and will rattle or not function reliably.
I can make suggestions but only if you want them.
Best.
Thank you for your expedient response. I was unaware of "blue printing". What does that entail for the gunsmith? I know of a really good gunsmith in my area. People say that he is great at what he does. I would like to check him out first. Never know, maybe he can blueprint. If I were to purchase a blueprinted action, how much is that going to run me indifferent if I bought the action and see if a qualified gunsmith could do it himself?
I'm glad to hear that all Remington 700 actions are created equal. Makes me feel better about myself. Haha.
Also, the detachable magazine I was looking into is the badger ordinance. It is right around 300 bucks. I read reviews of the Wyatt company and was not impressed. Is Badger Ordinance a decent DBM?
As for the Barrel, I have seen that the 5R is a great barrel. I think that is what I will be deciding on.
I am aware about the glass. That will be my second purchase. I will be looking at a Nightforce/Nikon Monarch/Leupold Mark 3 or Mark 4. I know a Nightforce is superior to the other two, but they are also really good scopes for a slightly better price (I can get a really good discount on a Nikon and a Leupold). That will take more researching. Main thing on the scope is I still do not know what reticle to buy. I have a mil dot and enjoy shooting it. Ranging targets for practice. I would like something different. Thinking Fine Cross Hairs/ FCH with a Dot. Only reason is I want to use the scope adjustments instead of Kentucky windage and hold over. Any suggestions on the reticle? Again the purpose of this rifle is tactical/long range shooting/maybe some long range hunting when I get good with it.
I a do apologize for amateur questions. I know that questions aren't stupid questions but I believe they can get annoying. haha
Again Nononsense thank you for all your help and time you have invested in my questions. It shows that you are an experienced marksmen and know what you are talking about. I am only 24 years old and just getting into long range shooting. I know my rifles and I know the reloading processes. I want to take that a little further.
Thanks again!
-Joe
I also wouldn't worry about which trigger comes on the rifle if you buy a complete one. Youre going to swap with a jewel anyway.
http://www.randbrifles.com/stiller.htm
Anybody have any input on Stiller actions?
Good luck with your build!
Squaring the action face
squaring the bolt face
truing the locking lugs
squaring the lug seats
squaring and opening the mount holes to 8x40 (if desired)
bushing the firing pin hole (if desired)
squaring the action threads (if desired)
You can spend quite a bit of money on the action at the machine shop. The first 4 things listed, I see as a minimum.
I suppose this is what you are after?
"blueprinting" the action involves
Squaring the action face
squaring the bolt face
truing the locking lugs
squaring the lug seats
squaring and opening the mount holes to 8x40 (if desired)
bushing the firing pin hole (if desired)
squaring the action threads (if desired)
You can spend quite a bit of money on the action at the machine shop. The first 4 things listed, I see as a minimum.
I suppose this is what you are after?
Just had to rub it in didn't ya? I think that's what we're ALL after[:p] Nice rifle!
quote:Originally posted by JustC
"blueprinting" the action involves
Squaring the action face
squaring the bolt face
truing the locking lugs
squaring the lug seats
squaring and opening the mount holes to 8x40 (if desired)
bushing the firing pin hole (if desired)
squaring the action threads (if desired)
You can spend quite a bit of money on the action at the machine shop. The first 4 things listed, I see as a minimum.
I suppose this is what you are after?
Just had to rub it in didn't ya? I think that's what we're ALL after[:p] Nice rifle!
He's not rubbing it in, he's helping us to set goals. Baby steps first then big steps like this...
JustC,
Is that the 6.5x55 Ackley? Or, which rifle is it?
There is nothing wrong with any of your questions. We have to know what spaces you have in your knowledge base before we can fill in the blanks.
Blueprinting or 'truing' an action can be handled by any one of several variations in process. But the overriding concept is that we choose to use the center line of the bolt body as the initial reference point for all of the work to done. All other surfaces have to be brought into a particular relationship to that line whether it's parallel, perpendicular or concentric. In essence we machine all of the surfaces based on the center line. These surfaces are:
Lug seats
Tenon threads
Front of the action
Rear of the bolt lugs
Front to the bolt nose
Outside diameter of the bolt nose
For a complete accurizing, we will do the firing pin hole and the base screws.
The variations in process will have a range of cost also. You should check online with some of the best gunsmiths to get that range.
The Badger system is what I use most of the time. Surgeon has a good on as do a couple of others.
I suggest that you look into the Vortex scopes before making a decision. They have great glass and good pricing.
I'm on the run so I'll try to post a little more tonight if I finish early enough.
Best.
here is the 6.5x55 Ackley
never thought I would have one built on a model 70 action, but the way she shoots, I just can't get rid of her
sandwarrior, that is what USED to be a 308 benchrest rifle (hunter class). The recoil was just too much in the BR stock it came with and the automotive paint with clearcoat. It seemed to speed up before it hit you[B)] But for what I gave the guy, I can't complain. She wears a 20" Hart barrel, and I actually traded the BR stock for the Mcmillan tactical, even up[:D] She isn't made for factory ammo though, she has a .337" neck dia, so brass necks have to be turned to fit. The trigger is a shilen set at 6oz. It was a BR trigger that we set as high as we could until I put something else in it more suited to it's build design. this is also the rifle I had the tactical bolt knob put on last year. She LOVES a 168gr pill.
here is the 6.5x55 Ackley
never thought I would have one built on a model 70 action, but the way she shoots, I just can't get rid of her
SSSUUHHWWEEET!!!!
UNI82,
Many have long held the belief that no matter what the M700 action is the best. I will agree with that to the point it's because many years ago when accurizing rifles came along it was sort of the "go-to" already.
Anyhow, as noted all the things mentioned, in my mind anyway, are critical in improving your accuracy potential. But this last post by JustC also shows that a very similar Win 70 (post '64 action I assume) can be made just as accurate as a Rem M700. I personally prefer them over the 700 for simple reason they have a square bottom. I think in the long run that will give you a better fit than the round bottom. I also think the integral recoil lug is preferable over the separate recoil lug. I also like the safety better but that has nothing to do with accuracy.
Those are my opinions on it. You can find many a used post '64 Winchester for less than an M700 action.
I will also note that my opinion is only that. The clear fact of the matter is that many M700's have been made into extremely precise rifles.
Bottom metal:
Badger, Seekins, Surgeon, CDI, etc all use the AI (Accuracy International) mags. HS Precision and Wyatts use proprietary magazines.
The Wyatt and HS can be a little noisy to use and carry but the simple solution is to wrap a layer of black electrical tape around the area of contact. I know this sounds cheap and like a work around but most magazines will wiggle a little make some noise (yes, even the Badger). It's the price we pay for average yet reliable function unfortunately.
Scopes:
Right now I'm using the Vortex Viper FFP, NightForce and a very special US Optics scope. The Viper is the most affordable when you consider the second focal plane reticles.
I really think you need to consider the Vortex Viper PST series scopes:
http://www.vortexoptics.com/category/viper_pst_riflescopes
Or maybe just a simpler reticle:
http://www.burrisoptics.com/pdf/BALLPLEX.pdf
Nikon has the BDC 600 reticle which was ostensibly developed for the 5.56mm cartridge but can be sighted for anything really.
Before locking in on a 140 class bullet, I suggest trying some of the newer 130 class bullets with this cartridge. You might be surprised...
Actions:
There is absolutely nothing wrong with either the Winchester Pre-'64 or Post-'64 actions for target shooting or hunting. They have been successful with the silhouette crowd and position shooters for a couple of decades, longer really.
The round actions lend themselves to being modified more readily than the flat bottom actions, that's all. There are also many more accessories for the Remington actions and clones than for others.
Check the prices for used Remingtons, blueprinted Remingtons and clones because they don't require accurizing usually. This is not 100% but in most cases. I lap ALL actions no matter who manufactured them with the only exception being the Surgeon actions, they go straight on a barrel with no changes.
Best.
Is the Ruger M77 a Good action to make into a BR/Tactical model?
Thanks!
-Joe
Before you even consider it, you need to ask yourself what kind of accuracy you want. 1"@ 100yds? 1/2"@ 100 yds? .002" @ 100yds? Your actual requirements/desires will dictate the work that needs to be done.
For a tactical rifle, id honestly say 1/2"@ 100yds should be enough. If that's the case, you may not need the action blueprinted at all or even a barrel swap. Bed the action in the stock, adjust the factory trigger or replace it, and dialing in handloads with the factory barrel should be able to meet that accuracy standard.
Now you've gone and done it! [:D]
Ruger M77 MkII or Hawkeye have that distinctive slanted recoil lug on the bottom front of the receiver. This receiver does NOT lend itself to accurizing or blueprinting as with the other actions but can show some slight improvements from the effort. You can true up the surfaces but when it comes to bedding the barreled action havoc can ensue. We even tried custom pillars to bed to and still had problems with the action. I have opted to take that lug off and create a new lug in certain circumstances but the expense is really not worth it in my opinion. There are much better actions out there which require little effort to get straight.
Now, on the other hand, you do have an action suited to the use you're looking for. All that's needed is a barrel with the proper chamber, crown, etc. and a good stock. This would be the least expensive excursion into your attempts at longer range shooting.
Stockys Stocks has some laminated varmint-style stocks which will work and they're on sale...
http://www.stockysstocks.com/servlet/the-332/*NEW!*-Long-Range-Varmint/Detail
McMillan has a 'special' stock right now for the Ruger:
#2679 A5 PAINTED BLACK, RH RUGER MK II, FAC F/P, FAC SPORTER B/C, SADDLE C/P, SPACER SYSTEM, FRONT STUD. $650.00 7/8/11
http://www.mcmfamily.com/mcmillan-specials-aseries.php
The barrel channel can be opened up for your choice of barrel contour. Then some paint of choice and you're all set.
There will be some limits with accessories for the Ruger but as I stated, it might be the least expensive alternative for the beginning.
Best.
I think you convinced me. I can use this action as a basis. This is my first rifle build. So I can start here with this build and start other projects. This project can get my feet wet just a little bit. I hope to ping a 6" gong at 600 yards. That is my only objective of this build mission. That means maintaining a 1 MOA up to 600 yards. I think that is doable. It will be also a great hunting rifle as well as a decent pinger. Thanks for your advise. This project will so start!
Thank you guys for all your help. Your experiences are more than any article or book can tell. Thanks again!
-Joe
Be sure to remember that technique, practice and concentration will rule the day when shooting at greater distances and smaller targets. The best bench set up or prone bipod or rest will also show great benefits.
Good Luck with the project!
Best.
Rugers are hunting rifles.
I called Kriger yesterday. They are located in Richfield, WI. That is only 1.5 hours away from me. That will save on shipping. I got a "quote" of roughly 600 bucks (565 + tax) for the installation/chambering of the barrel with the action that I bring. I pretty pumped right now.
This build will take a lot of time. I currently do not have the immediate funds. I will be purchasing an action shortly. I am still in the air between the 700 and the savage target. ( I don't know what I want. I'm a flip flopper). I have read other forums and they state that the savage action comes blueprinted and true because it is the Target action. But currently I am in no rush. I don't need a repeater, I shoot ALL of my bolt actions like a single shot any way. Never takes more than on for hunting. Once I buy the action I will buy the optics next then the barrel stock, etc.
Another questions, I will be shooting at 600 yards maybe, if I am lucky a little more. What MOA elevation scope base should I get? 10,15 or a 20 MOA base? Thanks again for all your time investments.
I Love guns.
-JD
I can't sell the Ruger. My father bought the Ruger 243 right when the MKII Hawkeye came out in a SS. Never fired it. When I graduated College he gave me a choice of a Non fired rifle (he had 6 of them) and I chose that one. The other ones are worth too much to put a round through it ( 22 year old with an unfired gun isn't a good match) so I took the 243. It was a graduation gift. It will never be sold by me. It will be my sons first rifle. I am eventually going to put SOME work on it. But right now it can sit in the safe
I called Kriger yesterday. They are located in Richfield, WI. That is only 1.5 hours away from me. That will save on shipping. I got a "quote" of roughly 600 bucks (565 + tax) for the installation/chambering of the barrel with the action that I bring. I pretty pumped right now.
This build will take a lot of time. I currently do not have the immediate funds. I will be purchasing an action shortly. I am still in the air between the 700 and the savage target. ( I don't know what I want. I'm a flip flopper). I have read other forums and they state that the savage action comes blueprinted and true because it is the Target action. But currently I am in no rush. I don't need a repeater, I shoot ALL of my bolt actions like a single shot any way. Never takes more than on for hunting. Once I buy the action I will buy the optics next then the barrel stock, etc.
Another questions, I will be shooting at 600 yards maybe, if I am lucky a little more. What MOA elevation scope base should I get? 10,15 or a 20 MOA base? Thanks again for all your time investments.
I Love guns.
-JD
If getting the .260 you won't need any cant in the bases to get you out to 1k with most scopes. Most scopes with at least 50 moa total travel. My counterpart in Nevada, with a 6.5 Creedmoor, was using 23 moa to get to 1000 yds. I needed 29 total with my 7mm-08. With my NF 12-42x56 NXS I only have 45 moa total travel so I needed a canted base. In my case at least 20 degrees to get me over 1k. So, I would suggest 20 degrees. Because that will get you out to 1k at least. And if you ever get out West and shoot as far as you want, it'll give you that much more before you have to use reticle hold.
20 MOA base. That way you don't have to go back later and get it.
As far as the difference between the Savage precision action and the standard Rem 700 action, I would say the precision action. I don't know they come blueprinted or not as you said. I do know everyone I've known who uses them says they are great. And, I've seen the accuracy to prove it. It can make life easier for switching barrels if you so choose, i.e. going from F-open to F/TR (whatever to .308...on the same rifle)
One caveat here is I don't know if you get a standard Savage recoil lug with it. The problem is it does no good to blueprint and true an action only to stick a stamped recoil lug in front of it. Ask Savage if they machine or stamp the recoil lug. And if you go with Savage and they have a stamped lug, then buy a machined lug. That'll true up with the receiver and the stock.
Edit:
JustC, The Savage precision action comes as an action only
And yes, the holdover was so bad at one mile in my scope it was literally painful from the prone position. [;)][:D] But any day shooting a mile is still shooting a mile!!![:D][:D][:D]
as to the savage action being trued out of the box, that is a fairy tale. NO ACTION is trued from the box. I have a BAT action that was $1400 without the trigger, and I would bet it could still be trued to some small degree.
as far as a MOA base, 20MOA is the minimum you need to look at. The guys who shoot at 1 mile, are using 60MOA bases, before they even dial in the elevation in the scope. Watch sandwarriors video about shooting at 1 mile,...he had some enormous amount of holdover, even after the scope was dialed all the way up. I suggest Badger Ordnance or IOR Valdada bases and rings (only because those are what I have, and I know they work). They are rock solid systems, and well worth the money. I am a huge fan of Burris products ( sold all my leupolds and replaced them with burris signatures, MK IV's were replaced with Nightforce), but they havn't ventured into the longrange/tactical arena yet. Yes their rings with the inserts (10moa-20moa) are great, but they are IMHO not up to what you want to do. A superior platform is needed to be competitive at 600yds. Even if you think you just want to "get in the game", you are still better off to buy the best from the start, and increase your skill from there.
handloading is also a MUST in this game. The BEST dies you can afford are crucial to ammunition consistency. I would suggest Redding competition dies, if you don't go all the way to a custom die cut by the gunsmith using the same reamer he uses for your chamber.
Does anyone replying to the thread know of a quality smith that specializes in Sako actions? i have a L579 w/ AII bolt (came factory that way) i would like to have some action work done to improve accuracy. Granted i wont be shooting 1k yrds any time soon but would enjoy some longer range shooting. I dont reload at current time but plan on it in the near future. The gun on a good day shoots .75" moa with FMJ boat tail but soft point MAYBE 1.5" moa. whether or not action is my problem would that improve accuracy to have "bluprinted" as you state?
No. Handloading is the key. You cannot have accuracy with ammo that is not a perfect match to YOUR chamber. You can have the most precise benchrest rifle in the world, but if you feed it factory ammo, its not going to perform. Instead of paying a gunsmith to blueprint your action, pillar bed your stock, and free float your barrel, invest your money in reloading equipment first. THEN, when you start loading decent ammo, you can do the work to the rifle and fine tune the ammo.
quote:Originally posted by fl23in
Does anyone replying to the thread know of a quality smith that specializes in Sako actions? i have a L579 w/ AII bolt (came factory that way) i would like to have some action work done to improve accuracy. Granted i wont be shooting 1k yrds any time soon but would enjoy some longer range shooting. I dont reload at current time but plan on it in the near future. The gun on a good day shoots .75" moa with FMJ boat tail but soft point MAYBE 1.5" moa. whether or not action is my problem would that improve accuracy to have "bluprinted" as you state?
No. Handloading is the key. You cannot have accuracy with ammo that is not a perfect match to YOUR chamber. You can have the most precise benchrest rifle in the world, but if you feed it factory ammo, its not going to perform. Instead of paying a gunsmith to blueprint your action, pillar bed your stock, and free float your barrel, invest your money in reloading equipment first. THEN, when you start loading decent ammo, you can do the work to the rifle and fine tune the ammo.
ok i kinda figured this to the case but was not 100% sure. What is the best "starter kit" for reloading that will have all i will need? And what is the "best" book to read for a novice to learn with out TONS of tech stuff i may not understand?
Btw what kinda of number of reloads does a case normally do before it is discarded.
look at the RCBS rockchucker press, the lee handpriming tool, the RCBS digital powder dispensor combo, and whatever dies you need.
Sako actions are usually pretty darn square from the box, not as much as they could be, but much better than your standard remchester action will be.
also is there a paarticular bullet design that has better coefficency than others? say ballistic tip over soft point. Or is it all about getting bullet to how the gun likes the bullet distance to the lands (amoung other things from what i read). Meaning should i try and load to a bullet style the go from there?
This build will NOT happen over night. I have all the reloading stuff I need (except the reloading dies). I am very far away from that point. Thanks again for everyone help.
I would like to thank everyone for the time that was invested into my post. A LOT of questions have been answered. Some were generated but answered in a prompt manner. When the build starts (which will be VERY SHORTLY) I will keep everyone posted on the progress. I also will have questions generate as the build is coming through. Thanks again Everyone!
-Joe
Ok, I think I have it down. I have just sold my Marlin 30/30 so I will be purchasing a Savage action. Remember, This is my first build and I have good 200 yard accuracy right now (.523 inch group at 200 yards with my 223). I want to reach out and touch at 600. Not produce 2" groups just yet. I want to get my feet wet with long distance shooting. Get the fundmentals down and create a NICE long ditance shooting rifle that might be kind of a "beater" but not really? I KNOW that my second build will be in a better caliber and on a BAT or surgeon action. But for right now. I will be just getting the bare essentials to get it started with a quality products, not crazy expensive quality products. I have access to a GREAT deal on a Savage action with the dual port and target accu-trigger and on optics (leupold, Nikon and Trijicon). I value everyone's opinion. I will spend more money on the optics then anything else. Just one part at a time.
This build will NOT happen over night. I have all the reloading stuff I need (except the reloading dies). I am very far away from that point. Thanks again for everyone help.
I would like to thank everyone for the time that was invested into my post. A LOT of questions have been answered. Some were generated but answered in a prompt manner. When the build starts (which will be VERY SHORTLY) I will keep everyone posted on the progress. I also will have questions generate as the build is coming through. Thanks again Everyone!
-Joe
Joe,
As I mentioned up above, and if you read JustC's post on our mile shooting excursion, you will see that the .260 is not only an excellent starting cartridge it's an excellent competition cartridge. It beats the 7mm out to 1k. I needed 29 moa and my counterpart, Chuck, only needed 23. His was shooting like a magnum without the kick, or powder usage, or barrel burn.
Read this regarding cartridge size:
http://tinyurl.com/3s273by
I think that you're on the right track with the 6.5mm over the 6mm's. Many of the Benchrest records I've seen are usually from one match in the year when conditions are perfect. The nasty days are the ones that tell how well the 6mm does vs. the 6.5's and 7mm's because they all get affected. The 6mm Dasher in the article has one very telling thing though. When you're not fighting the rifle you're not fighting to get a good group. They just come naturally. In great conditions the 6BR and improved cartridges based on it really shine as they put good bullets out at great velocities with great accuracy. Overall bullet weight helps buck winds, but all bullets move. I found that a 6 mph L wind reversing to a 2 mph R wind will make both you and a 6.5 moving 250 fps faster miss if you don't see it. But a 4 mph wind change my bullets were still hitting and the 6.5's weren't. That was at 950. So, IMO overall highest BC is what's going to help with the wind. Even when the BC is high due to weight and maybe not as much as bullet form. But, if you reduce the bullets time in the wind, you'll reduce it's drift. That is bottom line no matter how you explain it.
It's the best combination of speed and high BC
Edit:
Note of interest. I know the article is calling the round in question the 6mm Dasher. But, when I went to 6mmBR they show the dasher as the 6mm BR improved in it's original form. The form of the case Tom Mousel is using looks more like the 6mm BRX imp. The dasher has the long neck, .004" shorter body than the 6mm BR but shoulders blown forward to 40 deg. The 6mm BRX has the body lengthened by blowing the shoulders forward .100" or so, but maintaining the 30 deg. shoulder of the 6mm BR. The case Tom Mousel is demonstrating not only has the shoulder blown forward like the BRX it is also @ 40 deg. Which is about as much improvement from that case as you can really get.
If someone has clearer information please help out. But that is what I see.
EditII:
Uni82,
The whole point to my rambling rant was, you aren't going to need a better cartridge. Not for a long while anyways. You have what is about perfect for the 6.5mm
The stock will need to be pillar bedded if you want the best accuracy you can get. The use of the Kreiger tube you have mentioned is a superb choice.
Here are the two descriptions for comparison:
6mm DASHER
The popular Dasher is very accurate and has set many records. It has a bit more neck than the BRX. Gunsmith Dan Dowling is credited with its invention. It offers about 3.5 grains (10%) more case capacity than the standard 6BR--good for an extra +130 fps with a 105gr bullet. Effective out to 1000 yds, the Dasher holds the NBRSA 6-target 1000-yard world record Agg. Pacific Tool & Gauge (Dave Kiff) is a good source for 6 Dasher reamers. Specs: 40? shoulder, blown forward .10", Neck-length = .246". Requires Custom Dies.
6 BRX
The 6 BRX is the brainchild of champion F-class shooter Bob Crone. It leaves the shoulder angle unchanged so you can use regular 6mm BR dies, though a custom reamer is required to cut the chamber. While 6 Dashers seem more common, the 6 BRX offers equivalent performance with lower tooling cost. For that reason, the 6 BRX may be the smart "improved" choice if you want more velocity from your 6BR. Clymer Tools has the reamer for the 6 BRX, using Crone's original design. Pacific Tool & Gauge also has BRX-style reamers. Specs: 30? standard shoulder, blown forward .10", neck-length = .210". Can use standard dies, but the case will not fit a standard chamber.
While the BRX gives up a little capacity by using the standard shoulder angle of the 6mm BR Norma case, velocities will be right up there with the 6 Dasher. Here is a report we received recently from Scott Parker in California: "I have just worked up loads for my 6BRX. It is a Barnard action in a Mastin stock with a Broughton barrel at 31". I started by trying a ladder test at 100 yds. I loaded 11 rounds covering 32.5 grains to 35.0 grains of Varget with mollied Sierra 107s. All 11 rounds went into a group .464" tall by .397" wide. So, I repeated the test only this time I fired 3 shot groups. I found 2 nice spots at 33.5 grains and 34.5 grains. The groups were tiny--like .16-.18". I then shot two, 5-shot grups with both loads. Both loads produced 5-shot groups under .185". The velocity for the lighter load was 3020 fps. The higher load was 3104 fps. I took the scope off and put on my rear sight. I posted a 100yd reduced prone target. I laid down and shot 100-9x. This is the most accurate rifle I have ever owned, shot or seen.
I doubt that the XC with any bullet can match this cartridge's accuracy. I haven't tried the Clinch River 106 bullet yet. But shooters in the know have measured its BC at .55. This bullet at 3100 fps will give up little to no wind drift to the XC with the 115gr bullet. The inherent accuracy will prove superior to the XC cartridge.--Scott Parker."
From my notes on cartridge comparisons.
Best.
This post has A LOT of GREAT information to the amateur long distance shooter. A lot to soak in!!!
Thank you all for your expertise.
One of the biggest reasons that I chose the 260 Remington is the case. I have a 243, 308 and a 358 Winchester. All are based on the same case. Eventually I want to own all of the wild cats of the 308 case. All are great firearms that I reload and have good accuracy to 200 (the range I shoot at is only 200 but I have a couple of friends that have over 300+ acres that have the ability to shoot a very long distance).
I think later I will buy/build get a AR platform fire arm in a 338 federal or a 7mm-08 (probably the 338). But that is in a different year.
Thanks again every body for all of your help!
-Joe
Ok, so the Dasher does have the shoulder blown forward. The way I'd read an article about it was the shoulder angle (not length) had been blown forward. And in the BRX's case, it was as I stated, the shoulder was moved forward but the angle retained.
I do find it ironic about Scott Parkers statement that the 6XC could never be as 'inherently accurate' as the 6mm Dasher. Mostly because a couple of the 6mm Dasher shooters feel there is too much recoil with a bigger case. "The rifle tends to get away with the shooter," was one such statement. The irony in the statement is the smallest group is held by Tom Sarver shooting a .300 Hulk (something of a modified .300 RUM). And of course Lee Rasmussen's .50 cal record group of 1.997". Both guys have days where their aggregates are pretty small as well.
And, FWIW, Uni82, Tom Sarver recommends the .260 over any cartridge out there. He and I talked after the Nevada trip as he was interested in how the 7mm stacked up against the 6.5mm. As noted it really came down to a very slight edge in wind ability to the 7mm. But, that wasn't much of an advantage if you didn't see the wind to call it. A good wind caller in 6.5 would overwhelm someone just thinking the 7mm will buck wind better. It took more elevation out of similar sized cases to get the 7mm where the 6.5 was. The mechanical repeatability of the scope has a lot to do with how well you perform at long range.
Understand that you could chamber either cartridge in a purpose built accuracy rifle and do well...if you make the effort to do well. As good as a rifle is, they don't shoot tight groups by themselves. Also, for a later date, I wouldn't recommend the .338 Fed over the 7mm-08 in an AR-10 platform. But, that's a discussion for when you cross that bridge.
I have the opportunity to get a GREAT deals on a (+50% off) Nikon, Leupold or a Trijicon. Out of those companies which one would be the best?
Anyone use Leupold Mark scopes for 600 + yards? Are they ok?
Thanks!
-Joe
quote:It will be also a great hunting rifle as well as a decent pinger.
is not the case in my experience.
If it is heavy enough to be comfortable shooting long strings with, it is heavier than I want to hump in the woods. If it is at hunting weight, it kicks more than I want to shoot many rounds in a row out of, even in a mild caliber like .260. But then you are a lot younger than I am.
Another quick question.
I have the opportunity to get a GREAT deals on a (+50% off) Nikon, Leupold or a Trijicon. Out of those companies which one would be the best?
Anyone use Leupold Mark scopes for 600 + yards? Are they ok?
Thanks!
-Joe
What is the Trijicon? That is the best name by far there.
quote:Originally posted by uni82
Another quick question.
I have the opportunity to get a GREAT deals on a (+50% off) Nikon, Leupold or a Trijicon. Out of those companies which one would be the best?
Anyone use Leupold Mark scopes for 600 + yards? Are they ok?
Thanks!
-Joe
What is the Trijicon? That is the best name by far there.
their adjustment increments puts them out of the running. as much as I like them[;)]
quote:Originally posted by sandwarrior
quote:Originally posted by uni82
Another quick question.
I have the opportunity to get a GREAT deals on a (+50% off) Nikon, Leupold or a Trijicon. Out of those companies which one would be the best?
Anyone use Leupold Mark scopes for 600 + yards? Are they ok?
Thanks!
-Joe
What is the Trijicon? That is the best name by far there.
their adjustment increments puts them out of the running. as much as I like them[;)]
Amazing isn't it. They act like their scopes are the best thing since sliced bread. And the price reflects it. Yet when it comes down to it, they gave up adjustments. The Trijicon sights and scopes I've had the chance to shoot with were great. It don't mean much for a long range scope/rig if you don't have the adjustments to get it where you need it. Unfortunately, I didn't get that far.
In retrospect of my last post, go with what is known to work, the Leupold Mk IV.