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wait until after hunting season and you can problly get a good used crossbow at half it price because alot of people willbe selling them some folks likes it and some folks don't try a use first to see if you want to invest in a new one
quote:Originally posted by bang250
I haven't seen a release with a safety. Never heard of a release called a trigger. Just me though. I do tend to go with salzo on this.
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Carter Releases Solution 3 Four Finger Release. The Carter Solution 3 is a culmination of years of hard work and dedication to creating the finest archery products in the world. With the Solution 3, the archer has the ability to shoot the release as a back-tension style release with a safety, or as a thumb trigger release, all with the simple tuning of a single set screw. The release allows adjustment of both travel and tension of the trigger and safety. There is also a travel adjustment screw for the rotating head if the release is shot as a back tension release. With a case design that will fit just about any hand size, the Solution 3 may very well be the greatest release ever put on the market! Carter Release Aids Solution 3 4-Finger Back Tension Release.
Point is it's archery season in ohio, and you're allowed to use either or. So what's the difference? In my mind bow hunters have my respect, it takes skill to shoot a bow. But just because you get my respect don't give you the right to say that they're unworthy!
You tell him Dave [;)] I know I wouldn't want to do it that way my hats off to ya bud [:)]
1 shot is all ya get so make it a " SUREKILL " (T/C Encore-/-Contender/ MATHEWS SWITCHBACK Shooter)
I think crossbows are beep beep beep blah blah blah. [:D]
No problem here, I think crossbows are fine for regular archery season. I have one, haven't used it this year, thought about it, but never did. It's almost like they are easier, yet harder all in the same. Yes, you can scope a crossbow and all you do if pull the trigger, but they are louder, hard as heck to cock, limited for distance/accuracy.
As far as a good brand, go with a Horton.
NRA Life Member ---"A pocket knife, a clean hankey, and a pistol... things I can use." - Ted Nugent
So from my point of veiw I have a hard enough time so why would you say I should have to use my crossbow during gun season?
It is very simple. Archery hunting is a lot more involved than gun hunting. You have to practice a lot more, it is physically more demanding. A lot fewer people want to put the time, dedication, conditioning, into archery, than those who want to gun hunt.
I am sure that there are those who are disabled, like yourself, who wish they could do what it takes to hunt with a bow. Do I think you should be prohibited from hunting? Does not being allowed to hunt with a crossbow prevent you from deer hunting? The answer to both is "NO". You can hunt during the regular season, just like EVERYONE ELSE does who do not shoot a bow.I do not think that there is some inalienable right to bow hunt. If you cant do it, you cant do it. I do think you have a right to hunt, and you can hunt during the season that the people who do not shoot a bow, hunt.
No one is saying you shouldnt bel allowed to go into the woods during archery season. Archery season is the best time of the year for deer activity, so go enjoy it with a video camera-just dont hunt. You can do that a few weeks later with the gun folks.
"Waiting tables is what you know, making cheese is what I know-lets stick with what we know!"
-Jimmy the cheese man
Do you have to ship a cross-bow to someone with an FFL if you win it on an auction or can it be shipped straight to your home address? Anyone know? TENNESSEE THAT IS. Thanks...
[red]Really can I? , oh wait that is just your idea. I still have a problem that does not go away when bow season ends. Lets see I have to use a handgun because I cant use both hands,
Really? Well Geez, how do you use a crossbow? Are you saying, that you cant fire a rifle with one hand, but you are able to do so with a crossbow?
I think you are full of poop Dave.
"Waiting tables is what you know, making cheese is what I know-lets stick with what we know!"
-Jimmy the cheese man
do all states consider crossbows as archery?(even if not legal)
Were crossbows around long before compound bows?
Where in the Cabelas or Bass Pro Shop Catalog is the crossbow equipment located? Gun or Archery?
So it really does seem that YOU are saying that it is not archery when by definition AND by common sense useing a crossbow is considered archery.
EhlerDave in my opinion people with handicaps should have a preseason anyway. I would love to see them with a week or two before any other season starts to shoot whatever they choose to shoot.(weapon wise) My hat's off to you for hunting in whatever way you can. From what I have seen you are a good man and I wish you were closer so you could go hunting with David and me.
Crossbows were invented a LOOOOOOONG time before compound bows were. So unless you say you're all using the old english style bows then I don't think you can say using a crossbow is not part of archery!
Yup. Were long bows around before COMPOUND crossbows? YUP!! Were compound bows around longer than COMPOUND CROSSBOWS?? Yup.
Has the long bow been around lo0nger than the crossbow? Yup.
Is it not assanine to try and make the claim that crossbows have been around longer than bows, by making the age comparison between the crossbow and the MODERN COMPOUND BOW? Yup.
And besides, what has been around longer is completely irrelevant, as are most of your assinine defenses of "crossbow should be used during archery season" horsepoop.
"Waiting tables is what you know, making cheese is what I know-lets stick with what we know!"
-Jimmy the cheese man
and your answers the the rest of my questions.. or are you avoiding the reality that crossbows are indeed archery?
also I was saying that crossbows were around long before what YOU use today and call archery. You want to use what makes your life easier...I mean why not use a long bow or recurve? That is where the true difficulty lies.
Your questions are so silly, I didnt really find the need to respond-but since you insist:
1. No
2.Already answered
3. Located in the crossbow section.
"Waiting tables is what you know, making cheese is what I know-lets stick with what we know!"
-Jimmy the cheese man
quote:Originally posted by salzo
Your questions are so silly, I didnt really find the need to respond-but since you insist:
1. No
2.Already answered
3. Located in the crossbow section.
"Waiting tables is what you know, making cheese is what I know-lets stick with what we know!"
-Jimmy the cheese man
1. your first answer is a lie
2. and where is the cross bow section found?
oh wait you may not want to go there because it says ARCHERY... then Crossbow Arrows & Accessories and that would just make you have to wake up and realize you are way off in left field on this one.
Yes... Bass Proshop does put Crossbows under archery and if you would look you would see that there are MANY manufactures of crossbow accs that call them ARROWS....
quote:Originally posted by gagirl
quote:Originally posted by salzo
Your questions are so silly, I didnt really find the need to respond-but since you insist:
1. No
2.Already answered
3. Located in the crossbow section.
1. your first answer is a lie
2. and where is the cross bow section found?
oh wait you may not want to go there because it says ARCHERY... then Crossbow Arrows & Accessories and that would just make you have to wake up and realize you are way off in left field on this one.
Yes... Bass Proshop does put Crossbows under archery and if you would look you would see that there are MANY manufactures of crossbow accs that call them ARROWS....
A lie?? Prove it numb nuts.
"Do all states consider crossbows as archery?"-What kind of stupid question is that? I would be suprised if ANY STATE takes a position on whether or not a crossbow is archery. Why would you look to the states to define whether or not crossbow is archery??? It is mind boggling!
Where does Pope and Young stand on the issue? Do they recognize deer harvested with a crossbow for their scoring? Nope, they sure as hell dont.
How many bowhunting organizations do you know that recognize the crossbow as a bowhunting implement? I cant think of any except the "Dave and GA Girl wanna be bowhunting equals crossbow hunting club".
Where is the crossbow section found? Well, when I have been in both bass pro and Cabelas, they BOTH have crossbow sections in ytheir stores. If you go to their on line site, I guess ya have to go through the archery section-but the point is COMPLETELY IRRELEVANT as to the question at hand.
I did notice that basspro refers to bolts as "arrows"-they probable got tired of numb nuts like yourself complaining you couldnt find the crossbow "arrow" section. I also noticed that Cabelas did not succumb to the ignorant folk-they still refer to them as bolts-but give them time- Im sure after dealing with bozos like yourself, unable to find "crossbow arrows"-they to will change with time.
"Waiting tables is what you know, making cheese is what I know-lets stick with what we know!"
-Jimmy the cheese man
A lie?? Prove it numb nuts.
"Do all states consider crossbows as archery?"-What kind of stupid question is that? I would be suprised if ANY STATE takes a position on whether or not a crossbow is archery. Why would you look to the states to define whether or not crossbow is archery??? It is mind boggling!
WELL CONSIDERING THAT STATES THAT THAT ALLOW THEM CONSIDER THEM PART OF ARCHERY SEASON AND THE OTHER STATES THAT ALLOW ONLY HANDICAPPED PEOPLE TO USE THEM ALSO CONSIDER THEM IN THE ARCHERY SEASON.
COMPOUND BOWS IN BASS PROSHOP ARE HANGING RIGHT ON THE SAME RACK AS THE CROSSBOWS. IN THE ARCHERY DEPT.
SALZO.... LOOK UP THE DEFINITION OF BOLT....A SHORT HEAVY ARROW....LOOK IT UP.
I CAN TELL YOU ARE THE TYPE PERON THAT CAN NEVER ADMIT HE IS WRONG EVEN WHEN THE PROOF IS PLACED INFRONT OF HIM. GROW UP AND ACT LIKE A MAN.
Dang. Guess I need to apologize for posting the original question. Didn't know it would open up this big a can of worms. One last word on the topic from me though...Salzo, your attitude exhibited toward Dave, and handicapped people in general, is reprehensible. Until you've walked in those shoes you can't even pretend to know. I have a brother who had MS. HAD a brother. The pain he went through was terrible. And the things he wanted to do but couldn't just weren't fair. But by your definition, that was OK. Just life. Get over it. It ain't that easy buddy.
Once again...I apologize to all for opening up the original can of words.
I don't think you need to iluvguns,,,,,IT's just "RICHARD NOGGINS" like salzo that do.[B)]
1 shot is all ya get so make it a " SUREKILL " (T/C Encore-/-Contender/ MATHEWS SWITCHBACK Shooter)
Indeed, I apologize for emphasizing my points as well...but I think some people that are on this site should grow up. I mean not to be rude but the guys was fighting with me over it...I'm 17!
What a bunch of emotional pussies we have around here.
Myt behavior was reprehensible? Well so be it. I am opposed to crossbow hunting during archery
I state my opinion, and why, and a bunch of crybabies take it personal.
I didnt go after anyone personally, until the crybabies thought it was appropriate to go into the gutter.
Anyone has a problem with it-go bleen yourselves.
"Waiting tables is what you know, making cheese is what I know-lets stick with what we know!"
-Jimmy the cheese man
Policy on the Crossbow
NYB Statement Of Policy
Equipment Comparison Chart
Comparison Photos
Information On Crossbow Discussions
Additional Crossbow Information
PBS It's Not A Bow Brochure
When ads in the early 1990's started showing up in catalogs and magazines in New York State depicting the crossbow as a legitimate hunting implement it was time for New York Bowhunters, Inc. to address the issue. We needed to determine if the crossbow met the definition of a bow or if it was in fact a superior hunting implement when compared to the traditional longbow, recurve and compound bow. Some ads in New York State depicted the crossbow as a device with a "unique instant-adjust range system" with a maximum hunting range of 60 yards. This type of ad was in direct contrast to what the public was being told about the crossbow today. Because of this new awareness with the crossbow in NYS we began a research project on the subject. It should be noted that this was not a project taken lightly by the organization. We looked at the information available objectively and with an open mind. The pluses and minuses that the crossbow could provide to hunters within NYS were evaluated, as well as its effect on bowhunting within the state. One of the first official acts we performed in our research was to actually purchase a crossbow and to shoot it as described by the crossbow manufacturer. Many hours were spent deciphering data and reading present and prior research on the crossbow and after a thorough investigation and actual shooting experience, it was determined that the crossbow "was not a bow" and NYB's official Statement of Policy on the crossbow was developed. Why is it that when the crossbow was first introduced into New York State, it had an effective range of 60 yards but now after over a decade of technological advances in crossbow technology by the crossbow manufacturers, it was been reduced to having an effective range equal to a modern compound bow? The reason is simple, NYB exposed the truth about the crossbow and the crossbow manufacturers have softened their marketing in an attempt to fool the general public. Thankfully, NYB understands that our fellow New Yorkers are smart enough to sort out crossbow fact from fiction and thankfully the crossbow has been kept from entering archery only seasons here in New York State.
New York Bowhunters Inc. Statement of Policy
New York Bowhunters, Inc. (NYB) is opposed to the use of any weapon; other than those bows drawn, held and released by hand in any archery season or archery only area.
Furthermore, NYB is opposed to the creation of any new hunting or fishing season or the extension of any existing season which will decrease the length of the archery only season or displace the season into less favorable dates.
While NYB recognizes and supports the rights of hunters who chose to use other weapons in separate hunting and fishing seasons, we will oppose any effort to establish hunting and fishing seasons where the ultimate aim is inclusion in the archery only seasons or archery only areas.
NYB acknowledges the 1995 and 1999 DEC/Cornell University deer hunting regulations survey that determined that the majority of all big game hunters are opposed to the use of the crossbow during the "regular" firearms season. These surveys were paid for by tax payer dollars in order to determine the opinions of the majority of hunters in NYS and the results of these surveys should not be taken lightly by any parties in NY. Please see the Equipment Comparison Table depicted below for a comparison of the modern firearm, crossbow, compound bow and traditional bow.
As can be seen from the above table, the crossbow more closes resembles a modern firearm than a traditional or compound bow. In the fall 2004 issue of "CROSSBOW" Magazine, the author of an article entitled "The Scoop on Crossbows" states "Due to the crossbow's rifle-like nature, it takes less time and practice to attain or maintain sufficient shooting skills." At least this crossbow author understands the relationship of the crossbow when compared to a rifle or conventional bow. We believe that when presented with the accurate crossbow facts, a majority of all individuals will do the same. For additional comparisons, please review the following photos of crossbows, firearms, compound and traditional bows. It is said that a picture is worth a thousand words.
Modern Compound Bow
Traditional Long Bow
Traditional Recurve Bow
Information for Crossbow Discussions
Bowhunting was meant to be, and is a difficult and demanding sport. It requires a high level of dedication from its participants. Today's modem compound bows, coupled with sight pins and mechanical releases, have done much to make it easier for archers to reach and maintain levels of proficiency necessary for hunting. Unfortunately, there are still those sportsmen and women who are not willing to put forth the time and effort to learn to shoot archery equipment proficiently. The crossbow is the answer for today's opportunistic hunter who lacks the dedication and commitment required to be a bowhunter. The crossbow is simply a superior weapon that is much easier to use than archery equipment and therefore should not be allowed in any archery season or archery only areas. Many archers have taken up the sport because they love and appreciate the commitment that is required to shoot a bow and arrow correctly, accurately and proficiently. This same attitude is why some fishermen decide to fly fish over conventional type fishing or why some hunters choose to use a muzzleloader during the regular season instead of using a rifle or shotgun. It is the added challenge of using a primitive weapon that drives many bowhunters and the crossbow simple does not challenge a hunter like a compound, recurve or longbow does. Frankly, an inexperienced individual could literally pick up a scope mounted crossbow and with a few adjustments to the scope be shooting a crossbow with extreme precision. This same level of accuracy would take much more time for an archer to achieve and we accept and embrace this. It helps us to become closer to our sport and this adds to our level of enjoyment. Even the crossbow proponents understand that the crossbow does not take the time nor dedication required to master a conventional compound, recurve or longbow. In the fall 2004 issue of "CROSSBOW" Magazine, the author of an article entitled "The Scoop on Crossbows" states "A second crossbow advantage is the time it takes to become proficient enough to successfully hunt with one. Due to the crossbow's rifle-like nature, it takes less time and practice to attain or maintain sufficient shooting skills. Attaining good shooting form, the primary requirement for becoming an effective compound bowhunter, requires constant practice and significantly more time to maintain a sufficient competence level." This statement is absolutely true and is one of the main reasons why bowhunters choose to hunt in the first place. In this time of fast food, disposable products and reduced time for all things in life, the dedicated bowhunter embraces their bow and looks forward to the hours of enjoyment that shooting it will bring.
A survey of NYB membership opposed the introduction of the crossbow during any hunting season, which is consistent with the current law, by a margin of 99.9%. The Pope & Young Club will not accept entries taken with crossbows and the Professional Bowhunters Society is opposed to the use of the crossbow in any archery season worldwide.
The crossbow does not fit into the category of archery equipment. It has a stock, cheek plate, trigger, and rifle style sights. The crossbow can be fitted with a telescopic sight, carried cocked, shot out of a vehicle window, and has an average effective range of 69 yards (Marlow Report).
Additionally, there is no demand by the gun hunting community for the use of crossbows. We as gun hunters would not drop our shotguns or rifles to use a crossbow. The bowhunting seasons have wide support among all sports persons because we accept the challenge of using "primitive" equipment. A crossbow in the archery seasons would no longer allow us to classify the season as "primitive". We choose to hunt by placing voluntary limits on ourselves. The argument that bowhunters do not want to share the woods with any one is totally untrue. Technical improvements in modern archery equipment make bowhunting accessible to almost everyone but the severely handicapped. The bowhunting season is not a closed season. Anyone who wishes to accept the challenge and complete the necessary education course may take part.
Some archers bowhunt for the challenge of close range encounters with game, others bowhunt to take advantage of the early season and the additional opportunity to bag a deer. But what all these bowhunters have in common is the dedication to learn their equipment and to accept the challenge of getting within ethical range of their game.
The presence of any superior implement defeats the purpose of the archery seasons. The crossbow manufacturers will argue that the crossbow will bring more hunters into the sport. They are absolutely correct; the crossbow will bring people into the sport that are not interested in bowhunting, they are only interested in taking advantage of the early bow season. Any one can pick up a crossbow and pull the trigger. Shooting modern archery equipment requires a moderate amount of practice and dedication and shooting traditional equipment requires almost constant practice to maintain proficiency. Bowhunting takes commitment and dedication; virtues that our society is throwing by the wayside all too often these days.
The crossbow manufacturers, especially those active in NY, have millions of dollars to make by allowing crossbow into the archery seasons. These manufacturers are attempting to open new markets by alienation of the sporting public against the bowhunter in order to achieve their goals. These same manufacturers when speaking to potential crossbow hunters will push the speed, power, accuracy and superior range of the device. If they speak to bowhunters or archers, they will say it is ineffective beyond 20 yards due to the noise and poor trajectory. Some crossbow manufacturers even have a "Dial a Range" system that allows the shooter to zero in on a target out to 65 yards. If the crossbow is ineffective past 20 yards, why then, would a crossbow manufacturer have such a system?
If crossbow manufacturers fail in their attempt to get into the archery season, their next target will be to try to get into the firearms season. It's not very difficult to figure out that once they legalize the crossbow in a firearms season, crossbow manufacturers will build a constituency to lobby for the legalization in the more lucrative archery season. This is in fact their primary goal and to them the end will justify the means.
Bowhunters as well as other sports persons must step forward and stop the manufacturing community from dictating the future direction that the sport of bowhunting will take. If we are to continue to enjoy the status of a "primitive" season, we must place restrictions on our equipment in order to in fact keep them primitive.
Crossbow manufacturers can change their sales literature and institute catch phases such as the "horizontal bow" in order to try and persuade public opinion. They can continue to promote the crossbow for the youth, women, elderly and the Physically Challenged but when presented with the scientific facts as available the public can only come to the same conclusion as drawn by New York Bowhunters, Inc. and so many others and that is that the crossbow is simply not a bow.
Additional Crossbow Information Sources and Definitions
NATIONAL BOWHUNTER EDUCATION FOUNDATION
The International Bowhunter Education Program (IBEP) is a program designed and administered by the National Bowhunter Education Foundation (NBEF) to train Bowhunters throughout North America and the world.
The IBEP definition of a bow is one that is hand held, hand drawn, and released with nothing attached to the bow that will allow the bow to be mechanically held in a drawn or cocked position. Therefore, the crossbow is not a bow and should not be considered for use in any "bowhunting only" season.
The NBEF does not offer an educational program for any hunting device except the bow and arrow, and recommends that if states and provinces approve the crossbow for hunting that its use be restricted to the firearms' seasons.
THE POPE & YOUNG CLUB
The Pope and Young Club (P&Y) was founded to promote bowhunting and to record for posterity the outstanding examples of North American big game animals taken solely with the hunting bow.
A hunting bow is defined as a longbow, recurve, or compound bow that is hand held and hand drawn, and that has no mechanical device to enable the hunter to lock the bow at full or partial draw, other than the energy stored by the drawn bow, no device to propel the arrow will be permitted.
The P&Y Club does not consider the crossbow to be a hunting bow and will not accept any trophies collected by crossbow hunters. Furthermore, the club considers the use of the crossbow during bowhunting seasons to be a serious threat to the future of bowhunting.
Therefore, the club recommends that the crossbow not be considered for use in any bowhunting only season. The club strongly recommends that crossbow hunting be abolished from all existing bowhunting only seasons and the use of the crossbow for hunting be restricted to firearms' seasons.
For more information, contact the Pope & Young Club, 6471 Richard Avenue, Placerville, California 95667
MARYLAND DEPT. OF NATURAL RESOURCES
The Maryland department of Natural Resources defines a crossbow as a "normally shoulder-mounted weapon, which may be operated with only one hand". Furthermore, they define a bow as "a longbow or compound bow, which is normally operated by using both hands".
THE PROFESSIONAL BOWHUNTERS SOCIETY
The Professional Bowhunters Society (PBS) is opposed to the use of any weapon, other than those bows drawn, held and released by hand, in any archery-only season.
Furthermore, PBS is opposed to the creation of any new hunting season or the extension of any existing hunting season which will decrease the length of the archery-only hunting season or displace the archery-only season into less favorable dates. While PBS recognizes and supports the rights of hunters who choose to use other weapons in separate hunting seasons, they oppose any efforts to establish hunting seasons where the ultimate aim is inclusion in the archery-only season.
For more information, contact the Professional Bowhunters Society, P. O. Box 246 Terrell, NC 28682
THE MULLANEY REPORT
Mr. Norb Mullaney, a professional engineer, is recognized as the leading authority on the physics of bows and endows. He states that "The hand held bow has one characteristic that distinguishes it from a crossbow or any type of firearm. The internal ballistics are a function of the shooter, his or her physical geometry and capabilities, shooting form, consistency and reaction to stress and trauma. In the crossbow and firearms, the internal ballistics are fixed. The action of the shooter in triggering a release of energy does nothing more than initiate a process that is consistent and repetitive. The hand held bow is different. Every action of the shooter contributes something either positive or negative to the interior ballistic process. As the interior ballistics vary, so do the exterior ballistics. Shooting the hand held bow and arrow is much more complicated than aiming a fixed system of ballistics and touching off the energy discharge. The total energy to draw, hold and release the bow must come directly and unassisted from the shooter's muscle power."
Copies of the Mullaney Report can be obtained from Mr. Mullaney, Engineer, Writer, 8425 North Greenvale Rd., Milwaukee, WI 53217
THE MARLOW REPORT
The technical information on equipment contained in the "Marrow Report" was compiled by Roy S. Marlow and associates; titled "The Modem Hunting Crossbow-- A Study of it's Effectiveness Compared to the Hand Held Bow, 1989".
Roy S. Marlow's areas of expertise are in design, theoretical analysis, and experimental evaluation of structural and mechanical systems. He holds a BS degree in aerospace engineering, an MS degree in mechanical engineering, and an MBA degree in management with a concentration in the management of research and development activities. He is a member of several national engineering societies and scholastic fraternities, is active on industrial committees, and task groups, and has written widely on technical subjects. In 1984 he received the Eugene W. Jacobs Award, which is awarded annually by the American Mechanical Engineers for technical excellence.
The Marlow Report concludes that the crossbow is technically superior to the modem hand held bow in almost every category of comparison. Further, the report concludes that the crossbow is more similar to a fireman than a hand held bow and that crossbows should not be considered as archery equipment. The crossbow which is always cocked, shoulder held, shot from a rest, fired by a trigger and has over twice the effective range of a bow is closer to being a firearm than a hand held bow.
Copies of the Marrow Report can be obtained from R.S. Marlow & Associates, 12503 Chapel Bell, San Antonio, TX 78230
CORNELL UNIVERSITY SURVEY
A 1995 survey titled "Evaluation of Proposals for Change in Deer Hunting Regulation" conducted by Cornell University at the request of the New York State Department of Environmental Conservation concluded that "hunters generally do not support the use of the crossbow."
When deer hunters were asked if they were in support of the use of crossbows during the regular firearms season three quarters of the respondents (75.5%) said their satisfaction would change. Of those, a majority (68.2%) said their satisfaction would decrease if the crossbow was allowed and most of the hunters (87.1%) said their satisfaction would greatly decrease.
Copies of the survey can be obtained from the Human Dimensions Research Unit, Department of Natural Resources, Cornell University, Ithaca, NY 14853-3001
NEW YORK CONSERVATION OFFICERS ASSOCIATION (NYCOA)
February 1996, the NYCOA has had lengthy discussions about this issue at many of our regular membership meetings. The votes indicate that our members are unanimously opposed to the use of the crossbow for any hunting in New York State.
Many, including the NYCOA, see this movement toward the use of crossbows as one that would only draw more heated criticism from those already questioning the fairness, ethics, or the sporting nature of the modern hunt; partly because of advancements made in the implements already available to legally take wildlife/fish. These groups also feel, and the facts will support this conclusion, that there are already plenty of options when choosing hunting and fishing implements and aids to take wildlife/fish. These options are there for any individual and provide a reasonable chance for success when used within each implement's limitation to take wildlife whether the hunter is young, old, mobile, healthy, non-ambulatory, or physically challenged in any way.
NYCOA feels that when all the facts are reviewed, the evidence to not support any legalization of the crossbow in New York State at this time is overwhelming, and probably will not be supportable any time in the near future, if ever.
"Waiting tables is what you know, making cheese is what I know-lets stick with what we know!"
-Jimmy the cheese man
quote:Originally posted by iluvguns
Salzo, your attitude exhibited toward Dave, and handicapped people in general, is reprehensible. Until you've walked in those shoes you can't even pretend to know. I have a brother who had MS. HAD a brother. The pain he went through was terrible. And the things he wanted to do but couldn't just weren't fair. But by your definition, that was OK. Just life. Get over it. It ain't that easy buddy.
7052 Posts
Posted - 10/27/2004 : 09:25:30 AM
Bow or crossbow? You first have to ask yourself for what purpose.
If the sole purpose is to harvest some deer, get a crossbow.
But if you are looking for a hobby to dedicate a lot of time to, and get a lot of personal enjoyment/challenge, then get a bow.
I shoot both. I bought a crossbow for ONE reason-to shoot deer and turkey in my backyard. My backyard, for many reasons, is better suited for the crossbow.
Is the crossbow easier to master enough to harvest a deer? I dont care what any crossbow enthusiast says, it is easier. But one has to know that as far as distance is concerned, the crossbow is as limited, if not more so, as the bow. I have shot the crossbow quite nicely out to 50 yards, I know a few people who shoot farther-but am I going to shoot at a deer fifty yards away?? Hell no. That deer will no doubt jump the string. I have shot a few ground hogs in my back yard, 25 yards away, while a deer was standing forty yards away. The way they jump when they hear that string go, no way would I feel confident beyond 25 yards. I think I read on the excalibut web site that a der hears the string, when the bolt has traveled 30% the distance to the target. At twenty five yards or less, by the time the deer reacts to the sound, the bolt will be planted. Beyond that, well, I wouldnt chance it, especially considering how I have seen them react at farther distances.
You want something thats going to drop deer out to 25 yards, with the minimum amount of dedication of time? Crossbow.
You want something that will keep you dedicated to something that you really enjoy doing, whether there is a deer at the end of your sight, a 3d target, an apple, a woodchuck, turkey, etc-go with a bow.
"Waiting tables is what you know, making cheese is what I know-lets stick with what we know!"
-Jimmy the cheese man
Just a bit of FYI for those who want to see how he speaks out of both side of his mouth.
You came back GA girl?
You have this wonderful way of making a declaration, without anything whatsoever to back it up.
Just a bit of FYI for those who want to see how he speaks out of both side of his mouth.
What is the doublespeak you are refering to????
Can you point out ANYTHING in my posts, that conflict with what I wrote in the historical post you decided to dig up???
ONE THING!!! JUST ONE!!!
"Waiting tables is what you know, making cheese is what I know-lets stick with what we know!"
-Jimmy the cheese man
To the board... I said I was done with any converstation with salzo, not the rest of y'all, and since have not directed any post towards him and will not respond to any of his posts.
Comments
I haven't seen a release with a safety. Never heard of a release called a trigger. Just me though. I do tend to go with salzo on this.
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Carter Releases Solution 3 Four Finger Release. The Carter Solution 3 is a culmination of years of hard work and dedication to creating the finest archery products in the world. With the Solution 3, the archer has the ability to shoot the release as a back-tension style release with a safety, or as a thumb trigger release, all with the simple tuning of a single set screw. The release allows adjustment of both travel and tension of the trigger and safety. There is also a travel adjustment screw for the rotating head if the release is shot as a back tension release. With a case design that will fit just about any hand size, the Solution 3 may very well be the greatest release ever put on the market! Carter Release Aids Solution 3 4-Finger Back Tension Release.
its all about pucks and bucks
Lt. Col. Winky Girl
Ben[:)]
President: Loyal Order of Teletubbies
Distinguished Kuwaiti Observer
1 shot is all ya get so make it a " SUREKILL " (T/C Encore-/-Contender/ MATHEWS SWITCHBACK Shooter)
No problem here, I think crossbows are fine for regular archery season. I have one, haven't used it this year, thought about it, but never did. It's almost like they are easier, yet harder all in the same. Yes, you can scope a crossbow and all you do if pull the trigger, but they are louder, hard as heck to cock, limited for distance/accuracy.
As far as a good brand, go with a Horton.
NRA Life Member ---"A pocket knife, a clean hankey, and a pistol... things I can use." - Ted Nugent
So from my point of veiw I have a hard enough time so why would you say I should have to use my crossbow during gun season?
It is very simple. Archery hunting is a lot more involved than gun hunting. You have to practice a lot more, it is physically more demanding. A lot fewer people want to put the time, dedication, conditioning, into archery, than those who want to gun hunt.
I am sure that there are those who are disabled, like yourself, who wish they could do what it takes to hunt with a bow. Do I think you should be prohibited from hunting? Does not being allowed to hunt with a crossbow prevent you from deer hunting? The answer to both is "NO". You can hunt during the regular season, just like EVERYONE ELSE does who do not shoot a bow.I do not think that there is some inalienable right to bow hunt. If you cant do it, you cant do it. I do think you have a right to hunt, and you can hunt during the season that the people who do not shoot a bow, hunt.
No one is saying you shouldnt bel allowed to go into the woods during archery season. Archery season is the best time of the year for deer activity, so go enjoy it with a video camera-just dont hunt. You can do that a few weeks later with the gun folks.
"Waiting tables is what you know, making cheese is what I know-lets stick with what we know!"
-Jimmy the cheese man
1 shot is all ya get so make it a " SUREKILL " (T/C Encore-/-Contender/ MATHEWS SWITCHBACK Shooter)
NO FFL is needed to send a crossbow any where
Neither is one necessary to buy a muzzleloader.
Or a hairdryer, for that matter
"Waiting tables is what you know, making cheese is what I know-lets stick with what we know!"
-Jimmy the cheese man
[red]Really can I? , oh wait that is just your idea. I still have a problem that does not go away when bow season ends. Lets see I have to use a handgun because I cant use both hands,
Really? Well Geez, how do you use a crossbow? Are you saying, that you cant fire a rifle with one hand, but you are able to do so with a crossbow?
I think you are full of poop Dave.
"Waiting tables is what you know, making cheese is what I know-lets stick with what we know!"
-Jimmy the cheese man
do all states consider crossbows as archery?(even if not legal)
Were crossbows around long before compound bows?
Where in the Cabelas or Bass Pro Shop Catalog is the crossbow equipment located? Gun or Archery?
So it really does seem that YOU are saying that it is not archery when by definition AND by common sense useing a crossbow is considered archery.
EhlerDave in my opinion people with handicaps should have a preseason anyway. I would love to see them with a week or two before any other season starts to shoot whatever they choose to shoot.(weapon wise) My hat's off to you for hunting in whatever way you can. From what I have seen you are a good man and I wish you were closer so you could go hunting with David and me.
its all about pucks and bucks
Lt. Col. Winky Girl
)
Were crossbows around long before compound bows?
Yup. Were long bows around before COMPOUND crossbows? YUP!! Were compound bows around longer than COMPOUND CROSSBOWS?? Yup.
Has the long bow been around lo0nger than the crossbow? Yup.
Is it not assanine to try and make the claim that crossbows have been around longer than bows, by making the age comparison between the crossbow and the MODERN COMPOUND BOW? Yup.
And besides, what has been around longer is completely irrelevant, as are most of your assinine defenses of "crossbow should be used during archery season" horsepoop.
"Waiting tables is what you know, making cheese is what I know-lets stick with what we know!"
-Jimmy the cheese man
also I was saying that crossbows were around long before what YOU use today and call archery. You want to use what makes your life easier...I mean why not use a long bow or recurve? That is where the true difficulty lies.
its all about pucks and bucks
Lt. Col. Winky Girl
1. No
2.Already answered
3. Located in the crossbow section.
"Waiting tables is what you know, making cheese is what I know-lets stick with what we know!"
-Jimmy the cheese man
Your questions are so silly, I didnt really find the need to respond-but since you insist:
1. No
2.Already answered
3. Located in the crossbow section.
"Waiting tables is what you know, making cheese is what I know-lets stick with what we know!"
-Jimmy the cheese man
1. your first answer is a lie
2. and where is the cross bow section found?
here is a link for you
http://www.basspro.com/servlet/catalog.TextId?hvarTextId=62640&hvarDept=400&hvarEvent=&hvarClassCode=13&hvarSubCode=4&hvarTarget=browse
oh wait you may not want to go there because it says ARCHERY... then Crossbow Arrows & Accessories and that would just make you have to wake up and realize you are way off in left field on this one.
Yes... Bass Proshop does put Crossbows under archery and if you would look you would see that there are MANY manufactures of crossbow accs that call them ARROWS....
its all about pucks and bucks
Lt. Col. Winky Girl
quote:Originally posted by salzo
Your questions are so silly, I didnt really find the need to respond-but since you insist:
1. No
2.Already answered
3. Located in the crossbow section.
1. your first answer is a lie
2. and where is the cross bow section found?
here is a link for you
http://www.basspro.com/servlet/catalog.TextId?hvarTextId=62640&hvarDept=400&hvarEvent=&hvarClassCode=13&hvarSubCode=4&hvarTarget=browse
oh wait you may not want to go there because it says ARCHERY... then Crossbow Arrows & Accessories and that would just make you have to wake up and realize you are way off in left field on this one.
Yes... Bass Proshop does put Crossbows under archery and if you would look you would see that there are MANY manufactures of crossbow accs that call them ARROWS....
A lie?? Prove it numb nuts.
"Do all states consider crossbows as archery?"-What kind of stupid question is that? I would be suprised if ANY STATE takes a position on whether or not a crossbow is archery. Why would you look to the states to define whether or not crossbow is archery??? It is mind boggling!
Where does Pope and Young stand on the issue? Do they recognize deer harvested with a crossbow for their scoring? Nope, they sure as hell dont.
How many bowhunting organizations do you know that recognize the crossbow as a bowhunting implement? I cant think of any except the "Dave and GA Girl wanna be bowhunting equals crossbow hunting club".
Where is the crossbow section found? Well, when I have been in both bass pro and Cabelas, they BOTH have crossbow sections in ytheir stores. If you go to their on line site, I guess ya have to go through the archery section-but the point is COMPLETELY IRRELEVANT as to the question at hand.
I did notice that basspro refers to bolts as "arrows"-they probable got tired of numb nuts like yourself complaining you couldnt find the crossbow "arrow" section. I also noticed that Cabelas did not succumb to the ignorant folk-they still refer to them as bolts-but give them time- Im sure after dealing with bozos like yourself, unable to find "crossbow arrows"-they to will change with time.
"Waiting tables is what you know, making cheese is what I know-lets stick with what we know!"
-Jimmy the cheese man
A lie?? Prove it numb nuts.
"Do all states consider crossbows as archery?"-What kind of stupid question is that? I would be suprised if ANY STATE takes a position on whether or not a crossbow is archery. Why would you look to the states to define whether or not crossbow is archery??? It is mind boggling!
WELL CONSIDERING THAT STATES THAT THAT ALLOW THEM CONSIDER THEM PART OF ARCHERY SEASON AND THE OTHER STATES THAT ALLOW ONLY HANDICAPPED PEOPLE TO USE THEM ALSO CONSIDER THEM IN THE ARCHERY SEASON.
COMPOUND BOWS IN BASS PROSHOP ARE HANGING RIGHT ON THE SAME RACK AS THE CROSSBOWS. IN THE ARCHERY DEPT.
SALZO.... LOOK UP THE DEFINITION OF BOLT....A SHORT HEAVY ARROW....LOOK IT UP.
I CAN TELL YOU ARE THE TYPE PERON THAT CAN NEVER ADMIT HE IS WRONG EVEN WHEN THE PROOF IS PLACED INFRONT OF HIM. GROW UP AND ACT LIKE A MAN.
CONVERSATION OVER.
its all about pucks and bucks
Lt. Col. Winky Girl
"Waiting tables is what you know, making cheese is what I know-lets stick with what we know!"
-Jimmy the cheese man
Once again...I apologize to all for opening up the original can of words.
1 shot is all ya get so make it a " SUREKILL " (T/C Encore-/-Contender/ MATHEWS SWITCHBACK Shooter)
Myt behavior was reprehensible? Well so be it. I am opposed to crossbow hunting during archery
I state my opinion, and why, and a bunch of crybabies take it personal.
I didnt go after anyone personally, until the crybabies thought it was appropriate to go into the gutter.
Anyone has a problem with it-go bleen yourselves.
"Waiting tables is what you know, making cheese is what I know-lets stick with what we know!"
-Jimmy the cheese man
NYB Statement Of Policy
Equipment Comparison Chart
Comparison Photos
Information On Crossbow Discussions
Additional Crossbow Information
PBS It's Not A Bow Brochure
When ads in the early 1990's started showing up in catalogs and magazines in New York State depicting the crossbow as a legitimate hunting implement it was time for New York Bowhunters, Inc. to address the issue. We needed to determine if the crossbow met the definition of a bow or if it was in fact a superior hunting implement when compared to the traditional longbow, recurve and compound bow. Some ads in New York State depicted the crossbow as a device with a "unique instant-adjust range system" with a maximum hunting range of 60 yards. This type of ad was in direct contrast to what the public was being told about the crossbow today. Because of this new awareness with the crossbow in NYS we began a research project on the subject. It should be noted that this was not a project taken lightly by the organization. We looked at the information available objectively and with an open mind. The pluses and minuses that the crossbow could provide to hunters within NYS were evaluated, as well as its effect on bowhunting within the state. One of the first official acts we performed in our research was to actually purchase a crossbow and to shoot it as described by the crossbow manufacturer. Many hours were spent deciphering data and reading present and prior research on the crossbow and after a thorough investigation and actual shooting experience, it was determined that the crossbow "was not a bow" and NYB's official Statement of Policy on the crossbow was developed. Why is it that when the crossbow was first introduced into New York State, it had an effective range of 60 yards but now after over a decade of technological advances in crossbow technology by the crossbow manufacturers, it was been reduced to having an effective range equal to a modern compound bow? The reason is simple, NYB exposed the truth about the crossbow and the crossbow manufacturers have softened their marketing in an attempt to fool the general public. Thankfully, NYB understands that our fellow New Yorkers are smart enough to sort out crossbow fact from fiction and thankfully the crossbow has been kept from entering archery only seasons here in New York State.
New York Bowhunters Inc. Statement of Policy
New York Bowhunters, Inc. (NYB) is opposed to the use of any weapon; other than those bows drawn, held and released by hand in any archery season or archery only area.
Furthermore, NYB is opposed to the creation of any new hunting or fishing season or the extension of any existing season which will decrease the length of the archery only season or displace the season into less favorable dates.
While NYB recognizes and supports the rights of hunters who chose to use other weapons in separate hunting and fishing seasons, we will oppose any effort to establish hunting and fishing seasons where the ultimate aim is inclusion in the archery only seasons or archery only areas.
NYB acknowledges the 1995 and 1999 DEC/Cornell University deer hunting regulations survey that determined that the majority of all big game hunters are opposed to the use of the crossbow during the "regular" firearms season. These surveys were paid for by tax payer dollars in order to determine the opinions of the majority of hunters in NYS and the results of these surveys should not be taken lightly by any parties in NY. Please see the Equipment Comparison Table depicted below for a comparison of the modern firearm, crossbow, compound bow and traditional bow.
As can be seen from the above table, the crossbow more closes resembles a modern firearm than a traditional or compound bow. In the fall 2004 issue of "CROSSBOW" Magazine, the author of an article entitled "The Scoop on Crossbows" states "Due to the crossbow's rifle-like nature, it takes less time and practice to attain or maintain sufficient shooting skills." At least this crossbow author understands the relationship of the crossbow when compared to a rifle or conventional bow. We believe that when presented with the accurate crossbow facts, a majority of all individuals will do the same. For additional comparisons, please review the following photos of crossbows, firearms, compound and traditional bows. It is said that a picture is worth a thousand words.
Modern Compound Bow
Traditional Long Bow
Traditional Recurve Bow
Information for Crossbow Discussions
Bowhunting was meant to be, and is a difficult and demanding sport. It requires a high level of dedication from its participants. Today's modem compound bows, coupled with sight pins and mechanical releases, have done much to make it easier for archers to reach and maintain levels of proficiency necessary for hunting. Unfortunately, there are still those sportsmen and women who are not willing to put forth the time and effort to learn to shoot archery equipment proficiently. The crossbow is the answer for today's opportunistic hunter who lacks the dedication and commitment required to be a bowhunter. The crossbow is simply a superior weapon that is much easier to use than archery equipment and therefore should not be allowed in any archery season or archery only areas. Many archers have taken up the sport because they love and appreciate the commitment that is required to shoot a bow and arrow correctly, accurately and proficiently. This same attitude is why some fishermen decide to fly fish over conventional type fishing or why some hunters choose to use a muzzleloader during the regular season instead of using a rifle or shotgun. It is the added challenge of using a primitive weapon that drives many bowhunters and the crossbow simple does not challenge a hunter like a compound, recurve or longbow does. Frankly, an inexperienced individual could literally pick up a scope mounted crossbow and with a few adjustments to the scope be shooting a crossbow with extreme precision. This same level of accuracy would take much more time for an archer to achieve and we accept and embrace this. It helps us to become closer to our sport and this adds to our level of enjoyment. Even the crossbow proponents understand that the crossbow does not take the time nor dedication required to master a conventional compound, recurve or longbow. In the fall 2004 issue of "CROSSBOW" Magazine, the author of an article entitled "The Scoop on Crossbows" states "A second crossbow advantage is the time it takes to become proficient enough to successfully hunt with one. Due to the crossbow's rifle-like nature, it takes less time and practice to attain or maintain sufficient shooting skills. Attaining good shooting form, the primary requirement for becoming an effective compound bowhunter, requires constant practice and significantly more time to maintain a sufficient competence level." This statement is absolutely true and is one of the main reasons why bowhunters choose to hunt in the first place. In this time of fast food, disposable products and reduced time for all things in life, the dedicated bowhunter embraces their bow and looks forward to the hours of enjoyment that shooting it will bring.
A survey of NYB membership opposed the introduction of the crossbow during any hunting season, which is consistent with the current law, by a margin of 99.9%. The Pope & Young Club will not accept entries taken with crossbows and the Professional Bowhunters Society is opposed to the use of the crossbow in any archery season worldwide.
The crossbow does not fit into the category of archery equipment. It has a stock, cheek plate, trigger, and rifle style sights. The crossbow can be fitted with a telescopic sight, carried cocked, shot out of a vehicle window, and has an average effective range of 69 yards (Marlow Report).
Additionally, there is no demand by the gun hunting community for the use of crossbows. We as gun hunters would not drop our shotguns or rifles to use a crossbow. The bowhunting seasons have wide support among all sports persons because we accept the challenge of using "primitive" equipment. A crossbow in the archery seasons would no longer allow us to classify the season as "primitive". We choose to hunt by placing voluntary limits on ourselves. The argument that bowhunters do not want to share the woods with any one is totally untrue. Technical improvements in modern archery equipment make bowhunting accessible to almost everyone but the severely handicapped. The bowhunting season is not a closed season. Anyone who wishes to accept the challenge and complete the necessary education course may take part.
Some archers bowhunt for the challenge of close range encounters with game, others bowhunt to take advantage of the early season and the additional opportunity to bag a deer. But what all these bowhunters have in common is the dedication to learn their equipment and to accept the challenge of getting within ethical range of their game.
The presence of any superior implement defeats the purpose of the archery seasons. The crossbow manufacturers will argue that the crossbow will bring more hunters into the sport. They are absolutely correct; the crossbow will bring people into the sport that are not interested in bowhunting, they are only interested in taking advantage of the early bow season. Any one can pick up a crossbow and pull the trigger. Shooting modern archery equipment requires a moderate amount of practice and dedication and shooting traditional equipment requires almost constant practice to maintain proficiency. Bowhunting takes commitment and dedication; virtues that our society is throwing by the wayside all too often these days.
The crossbow manufacturers, especially those active in NY, have millions of dollars to make by allowing crossbow into the archery seasons. These manufacturers are attempting to open new markets by alienation of the sporting public against the bowhunter in order to achieve their goals. These same manufacturers when speaking to potential crossbow hunters will push the speed, power, accuracy and superior range of the device. If they speak to bowhunters or archers, they will say it is ineffective beyond 20 yards due to the noise and poor trajectory. Some crossbow manufacturers even have a "Dial a Range" system that allows the shooter to zero in on a target out to 65 yards. If the crossbow is ineffective past 20 yards, why then, would a crossbow manufacturer have such a system?
If crossbow manufacturers fail in their attempt to get into the archery season, their next target will be to try to get into the firearms season. It's not very difficult to figure out that once they legalize the crossbow in a firearms season, crossbow manufacturers will build a constituency to lobby for the legalization in the more lucrative archery season. This is in fact their primary goal and to them the end will justify the means.
Bowhunters as well as other sports persons must step forward and stop the manufacturing community from dictating the future direction that the sport of bowhunting will take. If we are to continue to enjoy the status of a "primitive" season, we must place restrictions on our equipment in order to in fact keep them primitive.
Crossbow manufacturers can change their sales literature and institute catch phases such as the "horizontal bow" in order to try and persuade public opinion. They can continue to promote the crossbow for the youth, women, elderly and the Physically Challenged but when presented with the scientific facts as available the public can only come to the same conclusion as drawn by New York Bowhunters, Inc. and so many others and that is that the crossbow is simply not a bow.
Additional Crossbow Information Sources and Definitions
NATIONAL BOWHUNTER EDUCATION FOUNDATION
The International Bowhunter Education Program (IBEP) is a program designed and administered by the National Bowhunter Education Foundation (NBEF) to train Bowhunters throughout North America and the world.
The IBEP definition of a bow is one that is hand held, hand drawn, and released with nothing attached to the bow that will allow the bow to be mechanically held in a drawn or cocked position. Therefore, the crossbow is not a bow and should not be considered for use in any "bowhunting only" season.
The NBEF does not offer an educational program for any hunting device except the bow and arrow, and recommends that if states and provinces approve the crossbow for hunting that its use be restricted to the firearms' seasons.
THE POPE & YOUNG CLUB
The Pope and Young Club (P&Y) was founded to promote bowhunting and to record for posterity the outstanding examples of North American big game animals taken solely with the hunting bow.
A hunting bow is defined as a longbow, recurve, or compound bow that is hand held and hand drawn, and that has no mechanical device to enable the hunter to lock the bow at full or partial draw, other than the energy stored by the drawn bow, no device to propel the arrow will be permitted.
The P&Y Club does not consider the crossbow to be a hunting bow and will not accept any trophies collected by crossbow hunters. Furthermore, the club considers the use of the crossbow during bowhunting seasons to be a serious threat to the future of bowhunting.
Therefore, the club recommends that the crossbow not be considered for use in any bowhunting only season. The club strongly recommends that crossbow hunting be abolished from all existing bowhunting only seasons and the use of the crossbow for hunting be restricted to firearms' seasons.
For more information, contact the Pope & Young Club, 6471 Richard Avenue, Placerville, California 95667
MARYLAND DEPT. OF NATURAL RESOURCES
The Maryland department of Natural Resources defines a crossbow as a "normally shoulder-mounted weapon, which may be operated with only one hand". Furthermore, they define a bow as "a longbow or compound bow, which is normally operated by using both hands".
THE PROFESSIONAL BOWHUNTERS SOCIETY
The Professional Bowhunters Society (PBS) is opposed to the use of any weapon, other than those bows drawn, held and released by hand, in any archery-only season.
Furthermore, PBS is opposed to the creation of any new hunting season or the extension of any existing hunting season which will decrease the length of the archery-only hunting season or displace the archery-only season into less favorable dates. While PBS recognizes and supports the rights of hunters who choose to use other weapons in separate hunting seasons, they oppose any efforts to establish hunting seasons where the ultimate aim is inclusion in the archery-only season.
For more information, contact the Professional Bowhunters Society, P. O. Box 246 Terrell, NC 28682
THE MULLANEY REPORT
Mr. Norb Mullaney, a professional engineer, is recognized as the leading authority on the physics of bows and endows. He states that "The hand held bow has one characteristic that distinguishes it from a crossbow or any type of firearm. The internal ballistics are a function of the shooter, his or her physical geometry and capabilities, shooting form, consistency and reaction to stress and trauma. In the crossbow and firearms, the internal ballistics are fixed. The action of the shooter in triggering a release of energy does nothing more than initiate a process that is consistent and repetitive. The hand held bow is different. Every action of the shooter contributes something either positive or negative to the interior ballistic process. As the interior ballistics vary, so do the exterior ballistics. Shooting the hand held bow and arrow is much more complicated than aiming a fixed system of ballistics and touching off the energy discharge. The total energy to draw, hold and release the bow must come directly and unassisted from the shooter's muscle power."
Copies of the Mullaney Report can be obtained from Mr. Mullaney, Engineer, Writer, 8425 North Greenvale Rd., Milwaukee, WI 53217
THE MARLOW REPORT
The technical information on equipment contained in the "Marrow Report" was compiled by Roy S. Marlow and associates; titled "The Modem Hunting Crossbow-- A Study of it's Effectiveness Compared to the Hand Held Bow, 1989".
Roy S. Marlow's areas of expertise are in design, theoretical analysis, and experimental evaluation of structural and mechanical systems. He holds a BS degree in aerospace engineering, an MS degree in mechanical engineering, and an MBA degree in management with a concentration in the management of research and development activities. He is a member of several national engineering societies and scholastic fraternities, is active on industrial committees, and task groups, and has written widely on technical subjects. In 1984 he received the Eugene W. Jacobs Award, which is awarded annually by the American Mechanical Engineers for technical excellence.
The Marlow Report concludes that the crossbow is technically superior to the modem hand held bow in almost every category of comparison. Further, the report concludes that the crossbow is more similar to a fireman than a hand held bow and that crossbows should not be considered as archery equipment. The crossbow which is always cocked, shoulder held, shot from a rest, fired by a trigger and has over twice the effective range of a bow is closer to being a firearm than a hand held bow.
Copies of the Marrow Report can be obtained from R.S. Marlow & Associates, 12503 Chapel Bell, San Antonio, TX 78230
CORNELL UNIVERSITY SURVEY
A 1995 survey titled "Evaluation of Proposals for Change in Deer Hunting Regulation" conducted by Cornell University at the request of the New York State Department of Environmental Conservation concluded that "hunters generally do not support the use of the crossbow."
When deer hunters were asked if they were in support of the use of crossbows during the regular firearms season three quarters of the respondents (75.5%) said their satisfaction would change. Of those, a majority (68.2%) said their satisfaction would decrease if the crossbow was allowed and most of the hunters (87.1%) said their satisfaction would greatly decrease.
Copies of the survey can be obtained from the Human Dimensions Research Unit, Department of Natural Resources, Cornell University, Ithaca, NY 14853-3001
NEW YORK CONSERVATION OFFICERS ASSOCIATION (NYCOA)
February 1996, the NYCOA has had lengthy discussions about this issue at many of our regular membership meetings. The votes indicate that our members are unanimously opposed to the use of the crossbow for any hunting in New York State.
Many, including the NYCOA, see this movement toward the use of crossbows as one that would only draw more heated criticism from those already questioning the fairness, ethics, or the sporting nature of the modern hunt; partly because of advancements made in the implements already available to legally take wildlife/fish. These groups also feel, and the facts will support this conclusion, that there are already plenty of options when choosing hunting and fishing implements and aids to take wildlife/fish. These options are there for any individual and provide a reasonable chance for success when used within each implement's limitation to take wildlife whether the hunter is young, old, mobile, healthy, non-ambulatory, or physically challenged in any way.
NYCOA feels that when all the facts are reviewed, the evidence to not support any legalization of the crossbow in New York State at this time is overwhelming, and probably will not be supportable any time in the near future, if ever.
"Waiting tables is what you know, making cheese is what I know-lets stick with what we know!"
-Jimmy the cheese man
Carolina you can use a crossbow if you're over 62
Salzo, your attitude exhibited toward Dave, and handicapped people in general, is reprehensible. Until you've walked in those shoes you can't even pretend to know. I have a brother who had MS. HAD a brother. The pain he went through was terrible. And the things he wanted to do but couldn't just weren't fair. But by your definition, that was OK. Just life. Get over it. It ain't that easy buddy.
+1
its all about pucks and bucks
Lt. Col. Winky Girl
Advanced Member
7052 Posts
Posted - 10/27/2004 : 09:25:30 AM
Bow or crossbow? You first have to ask yourself for what purpose.
If the sole purpose is to harvest some deer, get a crossbow.
But if you are looking for a hobby to dedicate a lot of time to, and get a lot of personal enjoyment/challenge, then get a bow.
I shoot both. I bought a crossbow for ONE reason-to shoot deer and turkey in my backyard. My backyard, for many reasons, is better suited for the crossbow.
Is the crossbow easier to master enough to harvest a deer? I dont care what any crossbow enthusiast says, it is easier. But one has to know that as far as distance is concerned, the crossbow is as limited, if not more so, as the bow. I have shot the crossbow quite nicely out to 50 yards, I know a few people who shoot farther-but am I going to shoot at a deer fifty yards away?? Hell no. That deer will no doubt jump the string. I have shot a few ground hogs in my back yard, 25 yards away, while a deer was standing forty yards away. The way they jump when they hear that string go, no way would I feel confident beyond 25 yards. I think I read on the excalibut web site that a der hears the string, when the bolt has traveled 30% the distance to the target. At twenty five yards or less, by the time the deer reacts to the sound, the bolt will be planted. Beyond that, well, I wouldnt chance it, especially considering how I have seen them react at farther distances.
You want something thats going to drop deer out to 25 yards, with the minimum amount of dedication of time? Crossbow.
You want something that will keep you dedicated to something that you really enjoy doing, whether there is a deer at the end of your sight, a 3d target, an apple, a woodchuck, turkey, etc-go with a bow.
"Waiting tables is what you know, making cheese is what I know-lets stick with what we know!"
-Jimmy the cheese man
Just a bit of FYI for those who want to see how he speaks out of both side of his mouth.
its all about pucks and bucks
Lt. Col. Winky Girl
You have this wonderful way of making a declaration, without anything whatsoever to back it up.
Just a bit of FYI for those who want to see how he speaks out of both side of his mouth.
What is the doublespeak you are refering to????
Can you point out ANYTHING in my posts, that conflict with what I wrote in the historical post you decided to dig up???
ONE THING!!! JUST ONE!!!
"Waiting tables is what you know, making cheese is what I know-lets stick with what we know!"
-Jimmy the cheese man
its all about pucks and bucks
Lt. Col. Winky Girl
Go hide in your hole now chicken lips.
"Waiting tables is what you know, making cheese is what I know-lets stick with what we know!"
-Jimmy the cheese man