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Best 1860 colt army replica

Sam06Sam06 Member Posts: 21,254 ✭✭✭✭
Who makes the replica for the money? I am looking for a shooter.

Thanks
RLTW

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    allen griggsallen griggs Member Posts: 35,274 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    It is hard to beat the Uberti.
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    44caliberkid44caliberkid Member Posts: 925 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Of the currently manufactured replicas, Uberti would be the best. They also offer the most options in the 1860. You can get a military (cut for shoulder stock) or civilian (no stock cut or screws), fluted cylinder or not, and steel grip frames or brass. Texas Jack's is the retail arm of Cimmaron and Uberti and has most of the variations in stock. Although I had to call them about every 2 months for a year to finally catch them when they had a Civilian model with steel backstrap.
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    odenthevikingodentheviking Member Posts: 523 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    The Uberti's are very nice, Colt even uses the Uberti parts to build thier copies. I have a 1860, a 1851 Navy, and a 1858 Remington by Pietta and they fire nice and the fit and finish looks good. About two year ago I picked up a Model 1860 Uberti/Cimmeron rework. The pistol looked very nice but the action was very ruff and tight. I smoothed out a lot of the parts my self and she functions much better now, but have not taken her to the range as of yet. I know the CASS boys love the Uberti/Cimmeron re-works but think your money is better spent having a good gunsmith go over a Pietta! Just my 2 cents.
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    44caliberkid44caliberkid Member Posts: 925 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Pietta quality has improved the last few years. The Pietta's made for EMF are the best. They will apparently do a better job for some importers than others. I looked at 3 1860's made by Pietta for Cabellas once and all three had quality control problems, but I've bought two from EMF that were excellent.
    Quality control can vary no matter who makes it. Just don't be afraid to send it back and ask for another one if there's a problem.
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    stegsteg Member Posts: 871 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    If you want the best, try to find a 2nd generation Colt....even a used one that has been fired but not abused. They are pricey, but worth every cent. None of the Italians even come close to their finish and fit. As for accuracy, they beat all of the Italians hands down. Lastely, they keep their value.
    If you can't find a 2nd gen. gun, try a Signature Series (3rd generation) Colt. Don't believe the nay sayers, most of whom have never owned on not to say even handled one.
    They are the next best for all the reasons cited for the r2nd gen. guns.
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    flyingcollieflyingcollie Member Posts: 197 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    ?? On another thread, it was posted that the Colts re-issues were made by Uberti . . . the parts were shipped stateside, and final fit and finish were done by . . . Iver-Johnson as I recall the post. ?? Any road, that probably makes them the best "repros".

    I bought an "Italian" '61 Navy years before the Colt re-issues. I found out later it was made by Uberti. That was about 1968. I have shot it a lot, still do, and have found it to be a pretty decent piece. Not long ago, I picked up a recent Uberti, same model, and by comparison, it's nowhere near as good as my old one. It has required a lot of "fiddling" to get it up to par with my old one. I have a Pietta '51 Navy, which I never shot, because it is really a piece of junk. [:(]

    I've flirted with the Colts re-issues, but alas, so far, I've been too cheap to spring for one. [:D]
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    stegsteg Member Posts: 871 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Do not pre-judge the 2nd and 3rd gen. Colt percussion revolvers until you have held one in your hand and fired it.
    For both 2nd and 3rd gen. Colt percussion revolvers, Uberti provided rough castings for the barrel,loading lever, cylinder, frame, hammer, and trigger. These parts were machined and forged into their final shapes (including the rifling of the barrel) by Colt for the 2nd gen. "C" Series and by Ivor Johnson for the 2nd gen. "F" series. All screws and internal parts were made under various sub-contracts in the U.S. Ivor Johnson also blued and case hardened the appropriate parts using Colt's proprietary processes. The Colt factory provided the quality control system and personnel for their manufacture.
    The 3rd gen. "Signature Series" Colts were made under a licensing agreement with Colt by the successor to Ivor Johnson, Colt Blackpowder, Inc. Colt Blackpowder had the same assembly line crew, supervisors, and gunsmiths as did Ivor Johnson. In other words, the same people who put together the 2nd gen. guns.
    Considering Colt's history of subcontracting, I guess you couldn't call most Colt Patersons or the Colt Walker as genuine Colts, because Sam Colt did not own the Paterson Factory, and did not oversee production there; and, the Colt Walkers were actually manufactured under contract by Eli Whitney, Jr. at his factory in what is now part of New Haven, Conn.
    I would suggest you search the net for a good used (i.e. one that has been fired) 2nd or 3rd gen. colt percussion revolver. They are definately not repos! And, the best of the Italians cannot compare with them.
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    Sam06Sam06 Member Posts: 21,254 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I think I will look for a 2nd or 3rd gen Colt based on what ya'll have said. I was looking at the Uberti because I had be "Told" that the made the guns for Colt and all Colt did was blue them and sell them for more $$.

    Thanks to all the replies now I need to start hunting one down

    Sam
    RLTW

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    ken44-40ken44-40 Member Posts: 201 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    What Steg said +1
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    flyingcollieflyingcollie Member Posts: 197 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Dang it Steg, you're a heckuva salesman. Now i'm hankering for a 2nd gen Colt - again - i was lusting after 'em when they first came out. Damn my Scots ancestry !! [:(]
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    stegsteg Member Posts: 871 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Thanks to one and all for your kind remarks.
    For all of you who are tempted to buy a 2nd or 3rd generation percussion Colt, I suggest that you do so in the near future. If you have any doubt as to their prices, simply compare what they originally sold for and what they are fetching now on the various internet sales sites. One that has been fired are now selling for what Colt originally sold them for.
    It has been my experience as a long time Colt collector, that when you see a Colt at a reasonable price, grab it if you have the money. It will hardly ever again be available at that price. This holds for all stores, gun shows and internet sales.
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    odenthevikingodentheviking Member Posts: 523 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Hey Steg,
    I think you better check your facts here because what you are preaching about the 2nd and 3rd Gen. Colts is just wrong!

    There is no way that Colt could have machined ANY Mdl 1851 parts,(not to mention barrels, cylinders, frames, etc.....), because all thier toolings and machinery was lost for the Mdl.1851 Navy in the Feb. 4th Factory Fire of 1864.
    Everything for the early "C" model, 2nd Gen. Colts came from Italy. It is true that Colt did all the fit and finish on the small internal parts, but all the barrels, cylinders, frames, etc..... all were Italian made. It was this high labor cost in the fit/finish of these parts that had Colt struggling to build the early 1851 Navy's from 1971 to 1973. However, late in 1973 Colt decided to seek a new supplier of components and the following year Lou Imperato, its largest American distributor, took over. But all the major parts still came in from Italy, it is just that Lou over at I.J. was now doing the fit/finish work.
    Now if you wanna talk 3rd Gen. now you are getting back to the old way that Colts were made........ but "Colt" was NOT doing any of the work! Unlike their first arrangement, Imperato was now responsible for the entire production of Colt black-powder models. Here is a quote from Lou in an article about the 3rd Gen. Colts: "They were all hand-fitted. There was no way to do mass production," explains Imperato. "We had the barrels, cylinders and backstraps cast in Italy (as Forgett had done), but we finished them off in-house. We made the frames, the center pins, nipples, all of the screws, springs, and built every F Series gun at Iver Johnson Arms. We even used the old style color-case hardening method with the charcoal and bone meal, and Colt's exclusive Colt Blue Finish. They turned out pretty good. In fact, I think our finishes were actually better than Colt's single actions being done in Hartford."
    So here is the information straight from the horses mouth.....
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    stegsteg Member Posts: 871 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by odentheviking
    Hey Steg,
    I think you better check your facts here because what you are preaching about the 2nd and 3rd Gen. Colts is just wrong!

    There is no way that Colt could have machined ANY Mdl 1851 parts,(not to mention barrels, cylinders, frames, etc.....), because all thier toolings and machinery was lost for the Mdl.1851 Navy in the Feb. 4th Factory Fire of 1864.
    Everything for the early "C" model, 2nd Gen. Colts came from Italy. It is true that Colt did all the fit and finish on the small internal parts, but all the barrels, cylinders, frames, etc..... all were Italian made. It was this high labor cost in the fit/finish of these parts that had Colt struggling to build the early 1851 Navy's from 1971 to 1973. However, late in 1973 Colt decided to seek a new supplier of components and the following year Lou Imperato, its largest American distributor, took over. But all the major parts still came in from Italy, it is just that Lou over at I.J. was now doing the fit/finish work.
    Now if you wanna talk 3rd Gen. now you are getting back to the old way that Colts were made........ but "Colt" was NOT doing any of the work! Unlike their first arrangement, Imperato was now responsible for the entire production of Colt black-powder models. Here is a quote from Lou in an article about the 3rd Gen. Colts: "They were all hand-fitted. There was no way to do mass production," explains Imperato. "We had the barrels, cylinders and backstraps cast in Italy (as Forgett had done), but we finished them off in-house. We made the frames, the center pins, nipples, all of the screws, springs, and built every F Series gun at Iver Johnson Arms. We even used the old style color-case hardening method with the charcoal and bone meal, and Colt's exclusive Colt Blue Finish. They turned out pretty good. In fact, I think our finishes were actually better than Colt's single actions being done in Hartford."
    So here is the information straight from the horses mouth.....

    FYI I have checked my facts. The speciality machinery that was scrapped, was of the order of machines that drilled and tapped the nipple holes in one operation, and machined a dozen one piece grips in a single operation. The machinery used in finishing the rough Italian made parts were standard machine tools found in any modern gun works and machine shop. The same goes for the machine tools in the Brooklyn factory.
    Incidentally, I was in the Colt plant in the early 1970's and got the $5.00 super tour. I also was in Lou Imperato's Brooklyn plant on numerous occasions and actually saw them working on various parts for the 3rd generation pistols.
    You are quoting from Adlers book. Let's put it this way. His pictures are better and more accurate than his text....And if you believe everything that he writes about 2nd and 3rd gen. Colt percussion revolvers, I have a bridge going to Brooklyn for sale!
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    odenthevikingodentheviking Member Posts: 523 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Hey Steg, Not trying to be a dick here but you are talking up the 2nd Gen. Colts, asking folks to pay big bucks for basicly a really nice Uberti that any gunsmith could fine tune and refinish for a lot less $$$$! The 3rd gen. that I have handled/fired are much nicer and more closer to a fair price, fit, and finish than the 2nd Gen. I know some guys that are Civil War Re-enactors that want real colts so they can show the correct markings in a reproduction, but the the guy asking for advice wanted to know about the best shooter.

    In your earlier post you said this: "For both 2nd and 3rd gen. Colt percussion revolvers, Uberti provided rough castings for the barrel,loading lever, cylinder, frame, hammer, and trigger. These parts were machined and forged into their final shapes (including the rifling of the barrel) by Colt for the 2nd gen. "C" Series and by Ivor Johnson for the 2nd gen. "F" series. All screws and internal parts were made under various sub-contracts in the U.S. Ivor Johnson also blued and case hardened the appropriate parts using Colt's proprietary processes. The Colt factory provided the quality control system and personnel for their manufacture."
    This is not true, special toolings are needed to bore and rifle, this are not available at Colt for these Models.
    So help me understand this....... because you claim to have visited the Colt factory over 40 years ago this makes you more of an expert than the guys that wrote the books or worked at the factory for all those years????
    Are you also the guy that in another BP post told a guy to load his revolver with live caps on the nipples to avoid chain-fire???
    Maybe you should avoid giving advice unless you really know what you are talking about.
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    stegsteg Member Posts: 871 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I am not going to go any further in a p**sing match with you. You are like so many nay sayers about the 2nd and 3rd generation Colts.
    Why do you think that most of the cowboy action shooters in the percussion categories choose the Colt pistols over any of the Italians-including Uberti's? In addition, if you look up any of the many articles in gun magazines written about them from the 1970's to the 1990's all comment about how well they shot and their accuracy as compared to the Italians. The only modern made percussion revolvers that can even compare to the 2nd and 3rd gen. Colts are those made by Old Navy.
    You are entitled to your opinions, as ill informed as they may be.
    There is an old expression we have in New York City you should remember: "Never, ever, try to con an old con man!"
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    odenthevikingodentheviking Member Posts: 523 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    "New York City!?!?!?....... Get the rope!"

    You know what Steg, that is fine with me. But the facts speak for themselves, Uberti produced all the cylinders, barrels and the rifleing so your 2nd and 3rd Colt are just dressed up, fancy, over priced Uberti's!
    The problem comes when you give advice to someone that is dangerous or costs them a whole lot more money....... that makes us all look bad. There are many posts here that I think I know the answer to but do not speak because I know there are folks here with more knowledge or can just say it better than I. But I do know that there are more Italian made Reproduction Colts being used in SASS and CAS than 2nd and 3rd Gen Colts!*Note: Most of these have been converted to cartridge Fire!* And that most of the real SAA Colts used in SASS shoots have been reworked and tricked out by some very talented gunsmiths to make them shoot they way they do. A Colt out of the box is average at best and mostly eye candy in somebodies "Investment Safe".
    I have never understood this love affair with Colt, when all he ever did was make the cheapest, Govt. contract, low bid, mass production firearms. But when you are in LOVE, you can think only of your next piece!(Why do you think they call it the "Peace Maker"?????
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    flyingcollieflyingcollie Member Posts: 197 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Guys, I know how frustrating it can be not to have your posts accepted gracefully when opinions conflict. The problem with a forum like this is that none of us have any way to "prove" the absolute correctness of the facts we hold true. It would be best to keep posts friendly and gentlemanly, and not get all emotional. The truth will out eventually, and folks will tend to make their own evaluations in any debate, as more reasonable posts are contributed.

    This is compounded by the problem of these pistols themselves. In any manufacturer's "run of the mill", there will be a few lemons, and a few superlative pieces . . . neither of 'em is the whole picture.
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    62fuelie62fuelie Member Posts: 1,069 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I have been shooting a "Signature" 1860 for couple of years now and really am impressed with it. The fit and finish are excellent and I can put two out of six on a standard B-27 target at 100 yards consistently. Compared to the Pietta 1858 Remington I have the Colt is A Rolls and the 1858 is a Jeep.
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    flyingcollieflyingcollie Member Posts: 197 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Thanks again, Steg. I wouldn't have needed a whole lot of convincing anyhow, but over the weekend I was able to handle a 2nd generation Colt at a gun show, and now I'm a "true believer". Neither of my Uberti replicas even compare with the Colt 2nd . . . the action was smooth as silk, and the exterior finish far superior. First one I've seen in the flesh, and they're definitely worth the tab. They're out there, and not too hard to find . . . there are several on Gunbroker right now. I "won" a 51 Navy NIB this morning at a reasonable price . . . the guy at the gun show was a bit steep IMHO for a gun that had been fired.
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    stegsteg Member Posts: 871 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Thanks for your remarks, and welcome to the club. Just call me "el Corrupto"! Like I have said, most of the "gun nuts" that damn the 2nd and 3rd generation Colts, either have never handled them, not to say haven't shot tme, but rely oonly on what they have read. To them I say "reading about fireing Colts and not actually doing it is like trying to learn how to swim on a sofa."
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    flyingcollieflyingcollie Member Posts: 197 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by steg
    . . . Just call me "el Corrupto"! . . .

    !!@#%**$!! you, steg, thanks to you, I now own an 1851 Colt Navy "Signature Series". Found it NIB on the auctions, and it is incredible. I doubt if it had ever been taken out of the original package. It is so well timed the bolt doesn't leave the slightest trace on the cylinder, and the comparison makes my Ubertis look positively "junky", and I always thought they were pretty decent repros. Now to shoot the hell out of it !!! [:)]

    (thanks for shaming me into this . . . after 40 years, too soon old, too late smart, but not quite too late !! [:D] )
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    Fokker TriplaneFokker Triplane Member Posts: 15 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Say Mr. Steg: I'm a Uberti Colt guy but you sure defended yourself in that exchange. What it boils down to one must have an open mind (correct). So I put a bid in on a 3rd. Model Dragoon revolver signature series.. Now if I win I'm going to give that Colt and Uberti a good test run at the range. Nice talking to you a former Brooklyn guy. Mike
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    flyingcollieflyingcollie Member Posts: 197 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Hi there, Fokker Triplane, stay tuned !! I want to compare notes with you, soon as I can get out and shoot my new Navy. [:)]
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    stegsteg Member Posts: 871 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Fokker Triplane
    Say Mr. Steg: I'm a Uberti Colt guy but you sure defended yourself in that exchange. What it boils down to one must have an open mind (correct). So I put a bid in on a 3rd. Model Dragoon revolver signature series.. Now if I win I'm going to give that Colt and Uberti a good test run at the range. Nice talking to you a former Brooklyn guy. Mike

    Being from Brooklyn, you'll appreciate the fact that the Signature Series were made in Brooklyn!!!! and like most things from Brooklyn are put together right and work better than things made elsewhere.
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    Fokker TriplaneFokker Triplane Member Posts: 15 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Good Morning Guys: Now I did not know that about the signature series. Be happy to compare notes with you Mr. Flyingcollie. Being a retired gent I have more time on my hands now! Just put a bid on a Colt 1860 Army. Both the Colts will be the first ones I ever owned or fired. Like I said I'm a Uberti guy. Take care gents.
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    Fokker TriplaneFokker Triplane Member Posts: 15 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Mr. Steg: Just won ownership of two Colts Signature Series: (1) 3rd. Gen Dragoon (2) 1860 Army. Can you tell me anything about them? I will put both of them to the test with my Uberti's. Unbias and open minded this test will be. Howthe kicker will be I have Parkinson. We will see what is the performanace of the two (2) manufactors with a condition, I still am a good shot. I will be using Goex BP. 3F, 25gr. in the Army and 50gr. in the Dragoons. Home made felt wad between powder and ball. The ball(s) will be Hornady .44cal .454" rd. ball(s). Topped with Bore Butter. No brench rest will be standing right arm extended.. Distance will be 25yds. on my range outdoors. Weather: as long it is not raining on my range in the UP. of Michigan: outside of Iron River. Mike
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    stegsteg Member Posts: 871 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I can't tell you too much about either gun, except that if they are 3rd gen., both will have the Colt signature roll engraved on the backstrap, and the case hardening pattern is to die for!
    If you have never fired a dragoon before, I feel I must warn/remind you that 50 grains of BP was the load that many ACW muskets used, and firing that load by hand is indeed an experience!
    If you haven't fired a dragoon before, I would load a blank of about 30 grains and work up from there. It will let your body get accustomed to the shock of the recoil. If you load a smaller than 50 grain of powder with a projectile, make up the volume difference of the lesser BP charge with corn meal between the blackpowder and the projectile.
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    v35v35 Member Posts: 12,710 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I've had two 2nd Gen Colts: a Pocket Police and a stainless 1860 Army.
    The Army is a perfectly made piece. It's at least as well made as a 95% original I had. Conversely, the Pocket Police presentation set had a hammer that wouldn't reach the nipples, flask that didn't seal & a mold that wouldn't seal; all in a cheap case unlike any original. In short good looking junk.It came with a belt buckle which for some reason has value. The company sent me another set with a better revolver but the accessories were still unrepairable junk. Their story was that this set was not intended to be functional.
    I sold it asap.
    Their plan was to produce a line in stainless. However they later sent me a letter saying they changed their plans.
    I bought Uberti's display model stainless Pocket Police off the wall. It's a well made piece except for a too heavy hammer spring.
    With it's 5 1/2" barrel it chronographs not much less than the '51 Navy.
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    odenthevikingodentheviking Member Posts: 523 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by steg
    quote:Originally posted by Fokker Triplane
    Say Mr. Steg: I'm a Uberti Colt guy but you sure defended yourself in that exchange. What it boils down to one must have an open mind (correct). So I put a bid in on a 3rd. Model Dragoon revolver signature series.. Now if I win I'm going to give that Colt and Uberti a good test run at the range. Nice talking to you a former Brooklyn guy. Mike

    Being from Brooklyn, you'll appreciate the fact that the Signature Series were made in Brooklyn!!!! and like most things from Brooklyn are put together right and work better than things made elsewhere.


    Mr. "Fokker Triplane", (if that is who you really are and not Steg writing to himself!!!!), it is very easy to "defend youself" in that exchange when you just make things up and have NO facts to support what you are saying. The facts are that the Colt BP line are Italian made parts built, fit and finished at one of the Colt factories or subcontractors here in the states. You could get the same thing or better by taking any Uberti or Pietta to a gunsmith that knows what he is doing and having it fine tuned, for a fraction of the cost.

    And for those folks that wanna shot these BP Colt reproductions, PLEASE DO NOT LISTEN TO ANYTHING STEG SAYS!!!!! He does not know what he is taking about, you are gonna get hurt following his crazy suggestions! I have never heard of placing "corn meal" in with the BP of any weapon! That is just nuts and you are gonna get someone hurt bad! Just like your other suggestion on another post that someone should put live caps on thier C&B BP pistol before loading! If you wanna kill yourself go ahead, but do not tell others to do things that are dangerous!
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    odenthevikingodentheviking Member Posts: 523 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    P.S. Steg, You are correct...... The 3rd Gen. Signature Series models were made in Brooklyn, NY by John Jovino and Co. and NOT by Colt or any Colt employees!

    2nd Gens were made in Middlesex NJ by Iver Johnson using parts made in Italy (Case hardening for these was done in Hartford). They were inspected, marketed, and warranteed by Colt's. Some later F series models were assembled in Arkansas.
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    odenthevikingodentheviking Member Posts: 523 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    "If you haven't fired a dragoon before, I would load a blank of about 30 grains and work up from there. It will let your body get accustomed to the shock of the recoil."

    Just to prove that "Steg" has no idea what he is talking about, here he suggests that you use a "blank" round to get "accustomed" to the "shock" and "recoil". But anyone that has ever shot a "blank" in any weapon knows that a "blank" has NO shock or recoil!
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    stegsteg Member Posts: 871 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by odentheviking
    "If you haven't fired a dragoon before, I would load a blank of about 30 grains and work up from there. It will let your body get accustomed to the shock of the recoil."

    Just to prove that "Steg" has no idea what he is talking about, here he suggests that you use a "blank" round to get "accustomed" to the "shock" and "recoil". But anyone that has ever shot a "blank" in any weapon knows that a "blank" has NO shock or recoil!

    OK you win! I'm outta her, because I am sick and tired of your insults! I have been shooting cap and ball revolvers regularly for more than 50 years. You are just one of those people who has to have the last word!!!!
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    odenthevikingodentheviking Member Posts: 523 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by steg
    quote:Originally posted by odentheviking
    "If you haven't fired a dragoon before, I would load a blank of about 30 grains and work up from there. It will let your body get accustomed to the shock of the recoil."

    Just to prove that "Steg" has no idea what he is talking about, here he suggests that you use a "blank" round to get "accustomed" to the "shock" and "recoil". But anyone that has ever shot a "blank" in any weapon knows that a "blank" has NO shock or recoil!

    OK you win! I'm outta her, because I am sick and tired of your insults! I have been shooting cap and ball revolvers regularly for more than 50 years. You are just one of those people who has to have the last word!!!!


    You know what Steg? You posted the same thing back on 11/26/2012 on this very thread! And I let that go until you gave some more crazy advice about putting "corn meal" in with Black Powder! But yet you piped in another 3 or 4 times and I say that this "Folkker Triplane" guy is you also as a "Troll". There is a real good chance that you are a really nice guy and a lot of fun to hang around with...... but you clearly are not a safe handgunner when it comes to BP weapons. Unless you have firearms training other than the "stuff" you have done or would suggest that others do..... you should not give that advice. There are a lot of first time BP shooters here and the last thing they need is bad advice...... not to mention dangerous advice.

    Now lets go back to the original point of this post. The guy asked what is the best Mdl 1860 Army repro, for shooting, at the best price. Clearly the Colt Signature Seriers at what about $600 is not the answer this guy was looking for. The Colt You suggested is a collector piece and not a shooter. I know what..... I feel like I am talking to a rock right now, so lets just call it done for now.

    Until Steg or some other stonehead tells someone to do something stupid or dangerous..... and one of us has to jump in and yell "STOP"!!!!
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    JohnnyBGoodJohnnyBGood Member Posts: 1,443 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by odentheviking
    I have never heard of placing "corn meal" in with the BP of any weapon! That is just nuts and you are gonna get someone hurt bad!



    Oden. There is so much misinformation in your posts (mixed in with a little bit of truth), I don't know exactly where to begin. But I'll start with the cornmeal filler since it's so easy to prove you wrong.

    Cornmeal has looooong been used as filler for shooters who use a less than maximum load and need to fill up the air space between the powder and the bullet. Since you are reluctant to believe authoritative information, I have included a photo from page 69 of the Lyman Black Powder Handbook, 1975 Edition, noting the use of cornmeal filler.

    So, 1 point for Steg, and 0 for you [:)]

    Johnny

    meal_zps5d9e74e0.jpg
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    odenthevikingodentheviking Member Posts: 523 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Good morning Johnny! How nice of you to join us.

    Let me make something very clear here..... I never wanted this to turn into a contest, I just don't want to see anybody hurt. Also, I don't want a"New BP Shooter" to be turned off from BP due to gross misinformation to a direct question. The direct question was : What is the best 1860 Army for the money..... for a shooter? Clearly the very expensive and collectable Colt Sig Ser. is not the right one to suggest. Now lets talk about "Cornmeal"!

    Johnny has given us one paragraph from the LBPML guide that was written almost 40 years ago! that is talking about filling the air gap when using BP cartridges, with a very brief note about doing this w/a muzzle loader to improve accuracy on the range,(loading one round at a time. Johnny I am sure you will agree that this is NOT good advice for a beginner shooter. This was fair advice ,at best, 40 years ago but only when using BP. This can hurt someone when using modern BP substitutes that many "Modern" shooters have today as real BP is getting harder and harder to find. Techniques like this should only be offered in person buy folks that have tried it before and found it safe..... AND for the purpose of accuracy for target shooting , NOT to reduce recoil/shock,(whatever "shock" is???). Modern BP substitutes and fillers for BP cartridges have made vast improvements over the last 40 years and the K.I.S.S. system should be advised for first time shooters!

    Johnny if you know anything about BP revolvers you should know this is very dangerous! On 11/03/2012, Steg wrote this: "Sometimes, an inexperienced cap and ball shooter will load his revolver without first capping the cylinders in the mistaken guise of a safety factor. This can allow minute amounts of powder to leak out of the cylinder through the nipples when the ball is rammed home. Then when the cap goes off, this ignites and can cause a chain fire.
    If one has concerns about caps going off prematurely during loading, why not cap the nipples with spent caps before loading. Then, after loading with powder, wonder wads and ball, replace the spent caps with live ones. Then, one doesn't have to worry about loading a live capped cylinder.
    steg"
    This information could not be more WRONG or more DANGEROUS!!!!!!

    To Steg, I am so very sorry if I have caused you any pain or embarrassment in these posts, but please don't give advice to new shooters when you don't know what you are talking about. If you want to use 50 year old tech to shoot your BP then fine..... just get far away from other folks on the range. But please do not give out 40-50 year old advice to folks that may be taking their family and friends to the range.
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    stegsteg Member Posts: 871 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    To all concerned: I am not going to indulge in a "Mine is bigger than your" contest on this or any other site.
    In the loading proceedures I outlined, I know that what I was saying is not according to modern practice. I was just following the original loading instructions "of the period". This can be found in the literature about "period colts".
    If capping a cylinder first is so dangerous, then how come when reloading cartridges with either black or smokeless powder the primers are loaded into the cartridge cases first, before the powder?
    As for chain fires, many of these happenings were caused by loose powder in the area around the nipples and/or in the frame of the revolver due to careless loading.
    I bought my first Colt percussion revolver from Bannerman's in New York in 1957, and have been a regular shooter ever since. Old man Bannerman (the son) gave me my first instruction as to how to load the Colt. Since that time, I have never had a hang fire or mis-fire or have injured any living creature due to a gun accident. I rather think I have a bit of experience.
    So, mr Odin the viking, I leave you being the great percussion loading guru you wish to be, as I am sure you will have a caustic last word here.
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    swopjanswopjan Member Posts: 3,292
    edited November -1
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    odenthevikingodentheviking Member Posts: 523 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    You know what Swopjan....... that is what it feels like right now!
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    inkn221inkn221 Member Posts: 2 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    For my money you can't beat a 1960's vintage Centaur made in Belgium. Many of the parts are interchangeable with the Gen 1 Colts and better steel.
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    stegsteg Member Posts: 871 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by inkn221
    For my money you can't beat a 1960's vintage Centaur made in Belgium. Many of the parts are interchangeable with the Gen 1 Colts and better steel.

    With all due respect for the Centaur's, which are very well made, All of the parts of 2nd and 3rd generation Colts, except those internal parts which require hand fitting, are interchangable with their original counterparts. This is not so for many of the Italian replicas.
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