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Black powder choices

lee shermanlee sherman Member Posts: 405 ✭✭✭
I am new to black powder but not firearms. I may be interested in using 30 grain pellets in my Remington 1858 New Army. I hear negative comments about the pellets. 1. By weight they are more $ than loose powder. 2. Inconsistant energy release. 3. They don't burn as clean as say Pyrodex. You guys have already figured this all out. Any suggestions would of course be much appreciated. Thanks in advance. Lee[?]

Comments

  • hillbillehillbille Member Posts: 11,386 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I would personally never use them, let alone in a pistol. I'm not sure you can get enough spark to light the pellets from the pistol, as they can be finicky. Save yourself some headaches and get loose, black powder preferably, if not try pyrodex..
  • Gunny0321Gunny0321 Member Posts: 25 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Lee, I am a huge porponent of shooting Black Powder in black Powder firearms. I mean the real stuff and not the Fake powders. I also realize that a lot of you guys cannot find real BP and have to use the Substitute's -- You Think.

    BP is readily available here on the net. You can order it mail order and the big Brown truck (UPS) will deliver it to your door. Most of the Powder Co's that deal in BP do have a minimun order and that usually is as low as 5 lbs. You will have to pay a Hazmet Fee of $25.00 but you have to do that with smokeless as well. I shoot a lot of Black Powder and always order mine by the case which is 25 lbs I pay the same $25.00 Hazmet.

    By far in my opinion "Today" the best BP is Swiss. I have shot them all. Wano, KIK, Elephant, Goex, Schuetzen and finally settled on Swiss. It has always been very consistant lot to lot, the load I have for the currant lot of Swiss powder is exactly the same load for the last Lot I had and the one before that. Goex was never that way, once I had used up a case of powder and reordered, with Goex it was always a different lot #, and I had to start load workup from the begining. That load workup could use up 5 or 6 lbs of powder easy.

    Cleanup with BP is much easier than with any of the Sub's, and BP while corrosive by its very nature is nothing when it comes to corrosion like any of the Sub's and Pyrodex is the worst junk I have ever had to clean up.

    Look around and try and find some real Black Powder, I would prefer Swiss but use what you can find if you don't order it, you will be much better off, your piece will shoot bout twice as well with the real thing than with any of the Fake powders.

    RS
  • lee shermanlee sherman Member Posts: 405 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I much appreciate both posts by you two guys. Ordering over the net is about my only option I'm afraid. I am a resident of Nor. Kalif. and believe it or not no one stocks black powder in these parts to my knowledge. I would despise buying the wrong powder at todays prices. I was able to purchase one LB. of straight BP thru a friend for $20.00. It's a start anyway. I'll be shooting a Rem. 1858 New Army in .44. So, no Pyrodex, or pellets, as the real deal is just that! That narrows it down a bunch. Thanks again.[:)]
  • Gunny0321Gunny0321 Member Posts: 25 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Lee, I understand your problem there in Ca. I lived there for years and just moved about 3 years ago back to the South. While we were living in Sunnyvale, Ca thats about 8 miles North of San Jose. I ordered powder on a regular basis as I was shooting a lot then. I was going through 4 or 5 cases a year. No problems getting it there mail order. You also might try Reeds Sporting Goods in San Jose they at one time had BP there.

    RS
  • dandak1dandak1 Member Posts: 450 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Good luck. While I would like to use and recommend the "real stuff" , my experience with it (GOEX, old Curtis and Harvey and elephant brand) has been negative. Never tried Swiss tho. Try to get a pound of Pyrodex P or RS, as well as black powder, and see what works best for YOU. Using real BP I have had cylinders bind after 6 shots (Colt 1851 Navy (3rd gen), a few Colt 1849 pockets (original)), usually horrible accuracy, and with muzzleloaders jammed lead balls after only 2 or 3 shots. Pyrodex avoids all that for me. It isnt a matter of the cleanup, that is the same for all of the powders. Probably tested 20 or so guns (original and repro) over the last 20 years and black only shot better in 1 (a trapdoor 45-70), and that only when it was clean. Different strokes for different folks, but if you are paying the hazmat fee for black powder, what would it cost to add a pound of Pyrodex for your experimentation? That is the fun of shooting!! Again, good luck an keep us posted.
  • Gunny0321Gunny0321 Member Posts: 25 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    dandak, While I do not shoot revolers. I do shoot and compete with both BPCR and Muzzle loaders, and have been doing so many, many years. My "Experiance" is complettly different than you descripe, complettly.

    Old Curtis and Harvey has not been available in the USA for almost 40 years, as the plant in Ayrshire Scotland had a severe explosion and never reopened . I do have a few cans in my collection though. Elephant powder was a so, so powder. I shot a ? case of Elephant, about 10 years ago and finally gave up on it. It shot OK but was inconsistant from can to can much less from lot to lot. Goex has always been the old standared and easist to obtain. it has been around for many, many years. Goex can be made to shoot, but it also varies wildly from lot to lot. And for me always shot very dirty.

    Back in 1999 Goex's newest lot of powder was very slow, and was very bad about fouling. It was slower in my 45/70 model 1885 Winchester by over 150 FPS, in a rifle that has a almost subsonic bullet like the 45/70 shoot with BP that is almost 10%. I quit using Goex and went to Swiss powder at that time. I did try almost all of the powders available to us shooters at the time. The best powder was KIK but it was so inconsistant that it could just not be used for Match Competition. It was hot though and provided about 100 to 175 FPS added velocity in almost anything I tried it in.

    Swiss powder is a whole Nuther Deal complettly. Some say it is the charcoal, they do use a Willow Charcoal and maybe thats the difference, the old powders of old that were excellent powders used a Wood for the Charcoal that is just not to be found anymore, that was a Black Thorn Alder. Swiss is easy to load and work up a load for. Over the years I have had many different Lot #'s and all loaded almost exactly the same. Fouling is soft and easy to deal with,I use a blow tube between shots, cleanup after a average shooting session for me is around a 100 rounds or so, I do with plan water nothing added to that water. Usually two to maybe four wet patches and two dry patches oil and treat the barrel with my lube and the rifle is ready for the next time. Muzzle loaders are a little more of a pain but cleanup with them is very easy as compared to any other powder I have used.

    If you are having cylinder bind after only six shots then you for certain have a fouling problem. What bullet lube are you using? Pyrodex is just about the most horrible powder there is, it fouls at least twice as bad as almost any Black Powder out there today. Accuracy wise it will not hold a candle to most of the BP available today, any of them. It is also ""Very"" corrisive about double or trible as corrisive as BP, I have done the test and know this to be true.

    As to the Accuracy of BP. Have you ever looked at any of the results of the Black Powder Creedmoor or 1,000 Yd matches? In these matches
    almost all of them have gone to Straight Black Powder. The 1,000 Yd match at the NRA Whittington Center a few years ago was won in a shoot off at a 1,000 yds. It was 15 shots with the NRA continuation rule was in effect ( this rule allows the shooter to continue shooting after the 15 shots for record if all shots are in the X ring for a World Record) This match was won with a score of 150X23X. Sounds to me like somebody found a little accuracy with straight BP. Oh and by the way dan that is all shot with Iron Sights no scopes. allowed. Also just to be-labor the accuracy thing, the last year I competed at BPCR Silhouette on the Rams which are shot at 500 meters or 546.8 Yds or 320 Ft further than a 1/4 mile. In the 1st 19 matches I competed in that year my Ram count was 188 of a possible 190 and that was over a 5 month period, and shooting three different BPCR rifles One a Winchester 1885 45/70 and a Ballard 1875 in 40/82 Crossno and a Shiloh Sharps 1874 in 45/90. All shot with open sights. I would say that Straight Black Powder "IS" Very accurate, much more so than any of the Sub's and particularly more so than Pyrodex.

    I do agree with you about one thing "dan" If you are going to pay the Hazmet anyway I would also suggest to order one lb of each Pyrodex P and RS. While I don't think that is money well spent, it will allow the shooter to try them and see for thereself how bad the stuff is
    In My Opinion---.......

    RS
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