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Have guns really progressed at all?
ElMuertoMonkey
Member Posts: 12,898
Of course guns have progressed from the days of muzzle-loading muskets, but after the introduction of the AK-47, have firearms really changed all that much?
One could argue that the introduction of polymer (ie, plastic) framed guns was a step forward, but what real progress has been made? What development has taken firearms into that next stage?
Take a look around at items in your house. A computer that's twenty years old has likely spent the last fifteen years gathering dust in your garage. A twenty year old AR-15, however, has lived long enough to be called a "pre-ban" and still functions as well as one Bushmaster made just last week.
When gun companies introduce "new" models, what's new about them? Oh sure, they might be made out of some rare metal that justifies charging an arm and a kidney for them or they might have a rail cut along the bottom, but all in all they look like and function akin to what's been out for years if not decades. Heck, Ruger's idea of a brand new gun was taking their Super Redhawk, lopping the barrel off, and tacking on "Alaskan" as a suffix.
Maybe I'm being overly harsh on the gun industry here, but I find it hard to believe that guns have reached the apex of design. As a gun owner and enthusiast, I look forward to each SHOT Show report (I can't attend as I am not an industry professional) and am disappointed each and every year as Armalite comes out with yet another AR-15 with another overly-long acronym to distinguish it from the other fifty-billion models they churn out.
I readily admit - it's the greedy, short-attentioned American in me that craves something new and novel every year... every six months if possible. But all joking aside, is it too much to ask the gun industry to provide both quality and ingenuity?
One could argue that the introduction of polymer (ie, plastic) framed guns was a step forward, but what real progress has been made? What development has taken firearms into that next stage?
Take a look around at items in your house. A computer that's twenty years old has likely spent the last fifteen years gathering dust in your garage. A twenty year old AR-15, however, has lived long enough to be called a "pre-ban" and still functions as well as one Bushmaster made just last week.
When gun companies introduce "new" models, what's new about them? Oh sure, they might be made out of some rare metal that justifies charging an arm and a kidney for them or they might have a rail cut along the bottom, but all in all they look like and function akin to what's been out for years if not decades. Heck, Ruger's idea of a brand new gun was taking their Super Redhawk, lopping the barrel off, and tacking on "Alaskan" as a suffix.
Maybe I'm being overly harsh on the gun industry here, but I find it hard to believe that guns have reached the apex of design. As a gun owner and enthusiast, I look forward to each SHOT Show report (I can't attend as I am not an industry professional) and am disappointed each and every year as Armalite comes out with yet another AR-15 with another overly-long acronym to distinguish it from the other fifty-billion models they churn out.
I readily admit - it's the greedy, short-attentioned American in me that craves something new and novel every year... every six months if possible. But all joking aside, is it too much to ask the gun industry to provide both quality and ingenuity?
Comments
What they fire can be improved, or at least made different.
How about a chemical laser in a self-contained cartridge that can be fired in a standard rifle or pistol? The cartridge would emit a focused energy beam down the line of sight for a quarter second or less and then be spent.
Automatic and semi-automatic weapons would require some type of powererd ejection device but pumps, revolvers, bolt actions, single shots would need nothing but the introduction of the cartridges.
The beam would not have a trajectory, but would be straight. Power would be similar to the present, small cartridges would have less power than larger cartridges.
Benefits? No lead, no riccochet except off a mirror, no barrel erosion, no projectile falling back to earth, no supersonic crack, in fact, weapons would be almost silent. Untraceable as to the weapon for those non-PC assassinations.
Okay Uncle Sam, this is a freebie. Turn to with the ammo makers.
Liquid clean burning propellent and electronic ignition. Imagine never having to clean a gun. If the propellent was carried in the frame (a la Buell) you could have a magazine holding dozens of rounds.
No cleaning? [V]
quote:Originally posted by Joe Drees
Liquid clean burning propellent and electronic ignition. Imagine never having to clean a gun. If the propellent was carried in the frame (a la Buell) you could have a magazine holding dozens of rounds.
No cleaning? [V]
Yep!
No more huffin Hoppes #9[:0]
Not sure if anyone had it before they did, but I know it is on the 8000 cougar.
http://www.popularmechanics.com/outdoors/sports/1277311.html
Could you imagine if guns were still hand made and hand fitted.
Your Ruger P89 would cost over 1000.00 if it were done the old fashion way.
Your Ruger P89 would cost over 1000.00 if it were done the old fashion way.
But it would probably rate right up there with a custom gun.
quote:Could you imagine if guns were still hand made and hand fitted.
Your Ruger P89 would cost over 1000.00 if it were done the old fashion way.
But it would probably rate right up there with a custom gun.
wouldnt that make it a custom gun??
the real question seems to be "what else can they do?" There is not much more that can be had in firearms design, the only time you will see something truly new is when they invent a rocket powered bullet, Oops, thats been done (Gyrojet). Or maybe a self consuming casing, also been done (HK Caseless). The only thing you will see from now on will be improvements on exsisting designs such as electronic ignition and hydro numatic veriable dependent recoil systems
Hand held particle beam or laser 'gun' - using hunks of heavy metal flying through the air, IS quite primitive!, Mr. Spock![:D]
Why fix what isn't broken?
As an example, today's cars are not better at getting you from point A to point B than granddad's Packard was. Faster? Yes. Smaller? Yes. Quieter? Yes. More economical on fuel? Yes. Air Conditioning, radio, CD, VCR, DVD, seat warmers, buckets, GPS, etc.? All a resounding "Yes". But granddad's Packard will still take you from Point A to Point B while you're sitting on your *.
And, if something goes wrong with granddad's Packard en route, a hairpin, paper clip, book of matches, roll of tape, etc. might just get you back and running again.[;)]
Right now, EM guns are still practically impossible due to the power supply requirements and the requirment of extremely resilient and tough counductive materials to withstand the extreme forces of the gun. Maybe in a century or so we will get to see them.
Who said "Really Progressed at all"
http://tromix.com/Welcome.htm
Bet you never dreamed of these.
Brad Steele
What about metalstorm those asuuies invented in that POS country of theirs.
Is that the one that fires nearly a million rounds per min., and nearly
as many grenades per min.?
If so, that's the first thing that came to mind when seeing the title
of this thread.[:D][8D]
Who said "Really Progressed at all"
http://tromix.com/Welcome.htm
Bet you never dreamed of these.
There is still nothing "NEW" here, just modifications of exsisting systems, cool mods, but still just mods
Its a pair of siamesed M16's sharing a mutual gas system, thus the "Siamese 223".
Never did sell very well, although.
Look at the advancements made in manufacturing, and the benefits we have gained. We can buy relatively inexpensive 1911's, based on a 100 year old design, that shoot as well as custom guns that cost 3x the price. Savage builds a very affordable, and very accurate rifle.
Interesting innovations still happen, though. What about the Russian assault rifle that drops two shots in the space of one cycle?
It is hard to design a hammer that is much more then it has always been designed to be. They have made advancements in hamer ergonomics but it is still a hammer in the basist of form.
Firearms will remain similar to what they have been for the last 100 years. Anything that will be a major advancement will not be a firearm as we know it.
The hammer has been the same for hundreds of years and was designed to deliver a heavy blow to persuade an object in a certain direction.
It is hard to design a hammer that is much more then it has always been designed to be. They have made advancements in hamer ergonomics but it is still a hammer in the basist of form.
Firearms will remain similar to what they have been for the last 100 years. Anything that will be a major advancement will not be a firearm as we know it.
That is a good point about the hammer. In terms of updating and new idea would be the air or eletric nail guns. In this case the "ammo" (nail) is basicaly the same, but the delivery system is something totaly new. In gun terms the "bullet" has been the same all along. Now we have "bullets" in cases with all the stuff need to make them go boom (improved nail). The hammer would be like a muzzle loader and the air/eletric nail gun would be like a modern firearm.
Didn't Beretta introduce the rotating barrel locking assembly in 1994?
Not sure if anyone had it before they did, but I know it is on the 8000 cougar.
Steyr used that on the Model 1911/1912 Steyr-Hahn pistol
One could argue
One can not argue here. Don