In order to participate in the GunBroker Member forums, you must be logged in with your GunBroker.com account. Click the sign-in button at the top right of the forums page to get connected.
Options
S&W M&P15 rifles
Txs
Member Posts: 18,801
Any stories on how the new S&W AR15-type rifles are....besides expensive?
Comments
Any stories on how the new S&W AR15-type rifles are....besides expensive?
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=44263955 (under a grand for a high-quality clone?)
Recent G&A magazine article indicated they demonstrated HIGH accuracy right out of the box. I know, I know--can't trust a gun magazine that sells ads, but I'm still naive.
Just another AR clone..nothing to get too excited about.
Exactly! This is a forty year old design folks. There are dozens of contract suppliers for every part of the AR. They've got it down so that any Tom, Dick or Harry, can build an AR clone, so I guess Smith and Wesson should be able to handle stamping their name on one.
quote:Originally posted by Chris8161
Just another AR clone..nothing to get too excited about.
Exactly! This is a forty year old design folks. There are dozens of contract suppliers for every part of the AR. They've got it down so that any Tom, Dick or Harry, can build an AR clone, so I guess Smith and Wesson should be able to handle stamping their name on one.
I guess this is why there's never any controversy over who makes the better one. [:D]
Finally got time to fire again about 10 days later.... every one of 5 rounds didn't extract, ripped the groove off every round - low and behold - the chamber is BADLY scored.[:(!]
Called S&W - first question is "have you fired any 5.56 NATO from it?". Answered NO. Processing for return & repair.
THEN, as I'm lookin it over I re-discover the barrel is stamped "5.56 NATO". WTH - Over!
Send email to S&W asking for the "short answer" IS THIS CHAMBERED FOR 5.56 NATO or NOT. Still waiting for the answer!
Accuracy is as good as I can shoot it. Can usually hold 2" to 2.5" 5 round groups at 100 yds with a 3 MOA dot Holosight. At 100 yds, 3 MOA is approximately 3" so I suspect the rifle is putting the round right where it is supposed to put it.
It was made by Stag, don't know who is making parts for S $ W now.
Brad Steele
Why again did I pay almost 200% for a S&W? Maybe I'm still just a little pi$$ed about it tho.
Still nothing from S&W about the "5.56 NATO" chambering other than they have "read" the email.
Anybody have any factual info on the actual chambering? .223 or 5.56?
Lance
pay particular attention to the lower case r dimensions. These cartridges headspace on the shoulder. Changes in the shoulder dimensions such as one radius being sharper than the other may not seem like it's that big a deal, but it is a bigger deal than most realize.
Cartidge dimensions .223 and 5.56
quote:Originally posted by sandsmojoe
It's somewhat understandable that "one" slips thru now and then, but this chamber was a galded MESS! If you read the jargon on the S&W website, they make it sound like every one is tested so thoroughly as to be impossible to get a defective one.
Why again did I pay almost 200% for a S&W? Maybe I'm still just a little pi$$ed about it tho.
Still nothing from S&W about the "5.56 NATO" chambering other than they have "read" the email.
Anybody have any factual info on the actual chambering? .223 or 5.56?
Got 2 replies from S&W today. First, my rifle IS chambered fro 5.56 NATO.
According to the reply, they use a 5.56 field gauge to verify the chambering.
I take that to mean that the throating or leade is "mil-spec" for 5.56 NATO. YEAH FOR ME, since that is what I wanted.
I still have concerns about the difference between SAAMI pressure measurement method and that used by NATO. A potential 20,000psi difference is HUGE, potentially fatal!
In the users manual, S&W continually quotes using SAAMI approved ammunition.
I'll post again as the story unfolds.
In 5.56 NATO the leade is longer, allowing the bullet a longer "jump" to the rifling, thus reducing pressure slightly before the bullet engages the rifling.
According to many sources the difference, between .223 throating and that of 5.56 NATO, translates to as much as a 20,000psi difference in operating pressures!
I like my head and want to keep it! Shooting ammunition that could remove it is against my religion[:)]
Finally got time to fire again about 10 days later.... every one of 5 rounds didn't extract, ripped the groove off every round - low and behold - the chamber is BADLY scored.[:(!]If I remember correctly, all S&W's AR-type barrels are (were?) actually manufactured by Wilson.
I started this thread way back in '06 before I'd personally examined one and just wanted to hear from those who had. I've since gained a bit of hands on with them and have no complaints.
My pointing out the actual manufacturer of their barrels was just to inform. Wilson products have an outstanding reputation for quality.
Called at 14:15 last Wednesday.
[xx(]
Called S&W on Tuesday, (28th). Recited whole "we'll send you a prepaid shipping label" bit. Told it would be emailed - within 48 hours.
07/29/09 - received email - label illegible - can't view/print it.
Called S&W - recited whole story AGAIN! Told prepaid return label would be USPS Mailed - should have it within 1 WEEK!
Hmmm, and maybe the "checks in the mail"?
NOT impressed thus far! Still got a busted-*, brand new, unusable rifle.
It's out with the shipper 08/04/09.
Well yippy-skippy! It's now spent the first 35 days of it's warranted life BROKE!
As a commentary: S&W people ARE NOT the most friendly or personable.
Work order said - Hone chamber.
In the meantime, I've fired about 20 rounds and none of the brass came out rough. It looks like the problem is fixed!! [:D]
S&W is really a higher priced Stag!!
.
Broke down and bought one on the 7th of July, the basic m4 configuration. Fired 5 rounds over the first weekend - worked fine, didn't check accuracy. Cleaned it, put it away.
Finally got time to fire again about 10 days later.... every one of 5 rounds didn't extract, ripped the groove off every round - low and behold - the chamber is BADLY scored.[:(!]
Called S&W - first question is "have you fired any 5.56 NATO from it?". Answered NO. Processing for return & repair.
THEN, as I'm lookin it over I re-discover the barrel is stamped "5.56 NATO". WTH - Over!
Send email to S&W asking for the "short answer" IS THIS CHAMBERED FOR 5.56 NATO or NOT. Still waiting for the answer!
Mine exploded on the 27th round.
Upper cracked, bolt completely split in 2, dust cover bowed....
They claim bad ammo and wont replace it. I just got a letter yesterday stating "we wont replace it but you can buy a new one for a discount"
Pics Here....
http://www.flickr.com/photos/22508772@N00/sets/72157621153101432/
Mine exploded on the 27th round.
Upper cracked, bolt completely split in 2, dust cover bowed....
They claim bad ammo and wont replace it. I just got a letter yesterday stating "we wont replace it but you can buy a new one for a discount"
Pics Here....
http://www.flickr.com/photos/22508772@N00/sets/72157621153101432/
Wow, that sucks a fat one. I take it at least no one was hurt anyway. That makes for twice I've heard of S&W screwing people over on M&P 15s.
Was it commercial .223 ammunition or 5.56 NATO ammunition?
The first question S&W asked when I called for service was "have you fired 5.56 NATO ammunition".
Several emails later with S&W before I got a final answer of "Yes, it is chambered for 5.56 NATO and checked with a 5.56 NATO field gauge".
Apparently MINE wasn't, cause the chamber was rough as a file, right out of the box! Almost 1.5 months of warranty down the drain with a BRAND NEW rifle.
Actually I think maybe I need to go back to a REAL rifle.... FN/FAL!
Upper cracked, bolt completely split in 2, dust cover bowed....
They claim bad ammo and wont replace it. I just got a letter yesterday stating "we wont replace it but you can buy a new one for a discount"
Pics Here....
http://www.flickr.com/photos/22508772@N00/sets/72157621153101432/[:0][:(!]
I think S&W should stick to wheel guns. I would contact them and ask whats cheaper, replace my gun or loose sales after I spread my story with pics across the web?
If I did not hate S&W I would own one.
quote:Mine exploded on the 27th round.
Upper cracked, bolt completely split in 2, dust cover bowed....
They claim bad ammo and wont replace it. I just got a letter yesterday stating "we wont replace it but you can buy a new one for a discount"
Pics Here....
http://www.flickr.com/photos/22508772@N00/sets/72157621153101432/[:0][:(!]
I think S&W should stick to wheel guns. I would contact them and ask whats cheaper, replace my gun or loose sales after I spread my story with pics across the web?
I would ... If i could get a hold of someone...
Never had any problems talking to someone, after wading thru the phone system.
Be insistent... if you don't get the answer you want, ask to talk to a senior supervisor![:(!]
P.S. Didn't see a reply to whether you were shooting 223 or 5.56 NATO ??
S&W 1-800-331-0852
Never had any problems talking to someone, after wading thru the phone system.
Be insistent... if you don't get the answer you want, ask to talk to a senior supervisor![:(!]
P.S. Didn't see a reply to whether you were shooting 223 or 5.56 NATO ??
Sorry, I posted this in another forum. I thought i had answered you.
Remington .223
I'm still hesitant[:(]
I paid to darned much money for my rifle to have it blow up on me and S&W disclaim it's own warranty.[xx(]