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Vet kills self after being carded at movie theater
legionkahn
Member Posts: 4,055
MUNCIE, Ind. - Police say a 21-year-old military veteran fatally shot himself inside a central Indiana movie theater shortly after he argued with employees over being asked to produce ID to see an R-rated film.
Muncie police say no one else was hurt at the theater, including the man's two brothers, a friend and eight others attending the horror comedy "Zombieland."
Sgt. Mike Engle told The Star Press that officers were called to the theater about 10:30 p.m. Monday, some 20 minutes into the film's run.
Engle says that witnesses said he told theater workers he had killed 18 people while in the military. Engle said the man had been drinking and that one of his companions gave him the handgun just before he shot himself in the head.[V]
Muncie police say no one else was hurt at the theater, including the man's two brothers, a friend and eight others attending the horror comedy "Zombieland."
Sgt. Mike Engle told The Star Press that officers were called to the theater about 10:30 p.m. Monday, some 20 minutes into the film's run.
Engle says that witnesses said he told theater workers he had killed 18 people while in the military. Engle said the man had been drinking and that one of his companions gave him the handgun just before he shot himself in the head.[V]
Comments
what a thing to kill himself over...poor bugger[V]
Suppose it could have been suicide, but maybe not.
The first is that I haven't seen many veterans willing to pop off a body count to total strangers after only a few minutes conversation.
Vet or not, that's a really stupid thing to kill yourself over.
In absence of detailed information I'm not going to make the leap that this was due to the argument or that it was even an intentional act.
There is more to this than being carded to get in the movie. This kid had some serious underlying problems brought on from the war.
+1 ...looks like he had problems understanding why he could kill folks without an ID, but couldn't get in to watch a R rated film without one.
I can remember being carded (I wasn't 21 yet) when I came back...just shook my head and walked out...most of the time I didn't get carded.
quote:Originally posted by ElMuertoMonkey
Vet or not, that's a really stupid thing to kill yourself over.
In absence of detailed information I'm not going to make the leap that this was due to the argument or that it was even an intentional act.
Had a case several years ago down in texas. Young Marine Just back from Iraq. We get the word he had Killed himself.
Had a few Marines on a Web Site who knew him. One was in his reserve Unit. It took a while, but he did not kill himself but was a victim. Someone else did kill him.
So I as always now hold my tounge till the full story comes out. Cause I was not there.
Tragic yet sadly some will still blame the gun
No, you need to blame the "friend" who gave a pistol to a drunken angry man. This idiot needs to be penalized for his actions
I'm not buying all his war trauma BS. [V]
I think, maybe, that you have never watched your Buddies killed.
Doug
quote:Originally posted by mogley98
Tragic yet sadly some will still blame the gun
No, you need to blame the "friend" who gave a pistol to a drunken angry man. This idiot needs to be penalized for his actions
That's a slippery slope. Imagine, a close friend of yours grabs your ccw and shoots himself. Should you now be held responsible for his actions?
I'm not buying all his war trauma BS. [V]
Then you sir are an uneducated idiot. PTSD is a very real problem.
1. Calling names is not allowed. Stop it or be gone.
2. I don't know whether PTSD is a real deal or not. My son, who served in Iraq, and who survived 43 IED incidents and over 10 firefights, says it is not.
When he was home on R&R, and had no "decompression" time, I had to keep my M-16 in his room so he could sleep.
When he came home for good, after being retained at Fort Riley for counseling and re-training, he was the same old Travis, only older and more mature.
3. A friend's son, who served in Iraq, says PTSD is the real deal, and he takes medication for it.
I have no personal experience with it, so I won't call anyone an "idiot" for believing either way.
Oh Yes! PTSD, [xx(], millions of men have seen war and watched their friends die and then moved on with their lives without any excuses.
Many thousands have suffered from it and had no idea they had it. PTSD is not an EXCUSE. It is a medical problem, just like heart disease or cancer, and should be treated as such. It comes in many forms and degrees, and believe me no one wants to suffer from it. It is knucklheads like you that make it more difficult to deal with the problem because of the idea that if you suffer from PTSD you are somehow weak or not MAN enough.
quote:Originally posted by wipala
quote:Originally posted by mogley98
Tragic yet sadly some will still blame the gun
No, you need to blame the "friend" who gave a pistol to a drunken angry man. This idiot needs to be penalized for his actions
That's a slippery slope. Imagine, a close friend of yours grabs your ccw and shoots himself. Should you now be held responsible for his actions?
story says the friend GAVE the gun to him, not that he TOOK it.
That is not what I said. Too many jump on the PTSD bandwagon just to get on the government teat, its too easy to get. too easy to lie your way into getting it. too easy to use it as an excuse to do what you want and get away with it. lots of guys came home and just got on with their lives.
There's no cure, only abatement of the recall, and it's horrors. Eventually most can blur the events so they can cross the line into 'normalcy' (if the line was crossed outbound in the first place-didn't happen to me, thank God!).
What this entire string is about, is that some can do the 'push-back' more quickly/efficiently than others. Some may be so slow in improvement, that their lifetime is gone prior to re-crossing the line. Best, Joe
Honestly? suicide is the ultimate sign of self determination, he got EXACTLY what he wanted...otherwise he wouldn't have done it...I feel sorry for his family and the rest of the people that were exposed to it.
quote:Then you sir are an uneducated idiot. PTSD is a very real problem.
1. Calling names is not allowed. Stop it or be gone.
2. I don't know whether PTSD is a real deal or not. My son, who served in Iraq, and who survived 43 IED incidents and over 10 firefights, says it is not.
When he was home on R&R, and had no "decompression" time, I had to keep my M-16 in his room so he could sleep.
When he came home for good, after being retained at Fort Riley for counseling and re-training, he was the same old Travis, only older and more mature.
3. A friend's son, who served in Iraq, says PTSD is the real deal, and he takes medication for it.
I have no personal experience with it, so I won't call anyone an "idiot" for believing either way.
1. Calling names IS allowed, as long as you are one of the mods favored posters.
2. I've seen both with vet friends: ones affected and ones not affected. The behavior of some who claim they have it is just too extreme and bizarre for it to be anything else IMO. There is a definite pattern and identifiable symptoms to those who have been diagnosed with it, so I tend to think it's real. It was called shell shock in WWI, battle fatigue in WWII, and PTSD since Vietnam, so the fact that we have different names for the same thing, used by different armies going back almost 100 years lends credence to it being a real phenomenon, however misunderstood it is.
A professor friend of mine who forgot more about military history and strategy than everyone on this board combined will ever know, told me that how we bring men back from the combat zone significantly affects how they deal with their experiences.
Until Vietnam, a whole unit would be demobilized or sent for R&R in the rear. This allowed them to decompress and debrief with their comrades, their battle buddies. With Vietnam, we would send back and replace individual soldiers; they had no one to "blow off steam with" from their own units who knew what they were going through or talking about specifically. While seemingly more "efficient" from the bean counter perspective, this approach seemingly brought an unintended consequence: the increase of PTSD (or whatever you want to call it) and more serious symptoms in those suffering from it.
The fact that there are plenty of vets who DON'T suffer from just goes to show that one can never predict the outcome of various stimuli and inputs into any human with any degree of certainty. Some people are affected by trauma (in whatever form it takes) in different and more intense ways than others. We just never know.
Mr. ikeda, please knock it off.
quote:Calling names IS allowed, as long as you are one of the mods favored posters.
Mr. nemesisenforcer, we have gone over this ground before. You lie. I would just say you are wrong, but you know better.
Maybe you would like to volunteer to read every word of every post and take necessary corrective action? Probably not, since that would be more than a full time job.
For the UMP-TEENTH time, moderators have to depend on the membership to point out problem posts. The choice is yours, whether to curse the darkness or light a candle.
The military makes a halfassed effort to diagnose and treat PTSD. The VA does the same but for different reasons. The VA doesn't want to pay for the disability it causes. The military doesn't care as long as they get what they want out of the person, they care less what happens to them after their service.
There is a finite amount of crap someone can deal with before they go off the deep end. That magical number is different for everyone. In war some people can be totally unaffected by killing the enemy, but lose their mind when a friend gets killed. Others can be very much affected by just seeing someone die, enemy or not. Some get PTSD, some don't, some get it later. Some people get better by talking about it, and talking makes it worse for others. PTSD can range from nightmares, cold sweats, checking behind doors, remembering things triggered by a sound, a smell, or a sight. It can manifest itself as anger, aggressiveness, laziness, being aloof, sleep disorders, and in this guy's case obvious mental illness and suicide.
The military makes a halfassed effort to diagnose and treat PTSD. The VA does the same but for different reasons. The VA doesn't want to pay for the disability it causes. The military doesn't care as long as they get what they want out of the person, they care less what happens to them after their service.
+1...and well said.
...and in this guy's case obvious mental illness and suicide.I wouldn't say either of these are obvious based upon the information given.
All we really know is that he appeared to be intoxicated, he came into possession of a gun, it ended up discharging and he died. Everything else is supposition.
There's an awful lot of wandering around out in left field going on with this thread. Not only are people deeming this is a suicide with very little to back it up, now thet're even claiming to know what led him to it. Jeez.
quote:Originally posted by wittynbear
...and in this guy's case obvious mental illness and suicide.I wouldn't say either of these are obvious based upon the information given.
All we really know is that he appeared to be intoxicated, he came into possession of a gun, it ended up discharging and he died. Everything else is supposition.
There's an awful lot of wandering around out in left field going on with this thread. Not only are people deeming this is a suicide with very little to back it up, now thet're even claiming to know what led him to it. Jeez.
Well I am listening Dr Phil.
Well I am listening Dr Phil.That's a bit misdirected. How about instead you voice this to those filling gaps in the story and reaching a diagnosis based solely upon assumptions.
Did it cross your mind this could've simply been an accidental discharge?
Read over the info again and you'll see there's actually nothing that would cause you to rule this out. Notice also there's nothing to lead to some of the conclusions I'm seeing thrown out here.
quote:Originally posted by wittynbear
Well I am listening Dr Phil.That's a bit misdirected. How about instead you voice this to those filling gaps in the story and reaching a diagnosis based solely upon assumptions.
Did it cross your mind this could've simply been an accidental discharge?
Read over the info again and you'll see there's actually nothing that would cause you to rule this out. Notice also there's nothing to lead to some of the conclusions I'm seeing thrown out here.
relax I'm just messing with ya.
quote:Originally posted by nunn
quote:Then you sir are an uneducated idiot. PTSD is a very real problem.
1. Calling names is not allowed. Stop it or be gone.
2. I don't know whether PTSD is a real deal or not. My son, who served in Iraq, and who survived 43 IED incidents and over 10 firefights, says it is not.
When he was home on R&R, and had no "decompression" time, I had to keep my M-16 in his room so he could sleep.
When he came home for good, after being retained at Fort Riley for counseling and re-training, he was the same old Travis, only older and more mature.
3. A friend's son, who served in Iraq, says PTSD is the real deal, and he takes medication for it.
I have no personal experience with it, so I won't call anyone an "idiot" for believing either way.
1. Calling names IS allowed, as long as you are one of the mods favored posters.
2. I've seen both with vet friends: ones affected and ones not affected. The behavior of some who claim they have it is just too extreme and bizarre for it to be anything else IMO. There is a definite pattern and identifiable symptoms to those who have been diagnosed with it, so I tend to think it's real. It was called shell shock in WWI, battle fatigue in WWII, and PTSD since Vietnam, so the fact that we have different names for the same thing, used by different armies going back almost 100 years lends credence to it being a real phenomenon, however misunderstood it is.
A professor friend of mine who forgot more about military history and strategy than everyone on this board combined will ever know, told me that how we bring men back from the combat zone significantly affects how they deal with their experiences.
Until Vietnam, a whole unit would be demobilized or sent for R&R in the rear. This allowed them to decompress and debrief with their comrades, their battle buddies. With Vietnam, we would send back and replace individual soldiers; they had no one to "blow off steam with" from their own units who knew what they were going through or talking about specifically. While seemingly more "efficient" from the bean counter perspective, this approach seemingly brought an unintended consequence: the increase of PTSD (or whatever you want to call it) and more serious symptoms in those suffering from it.
The fact that there are plenty of vets who DON'T suffer from just goes to show that one can never predict the outcome of various stimuli and inputs into any human with any degree of certainty. Some people are affected by trauma (in whatever form it takes) in different and more intense ways than others. We just never know.
Man...I remember sitting in Ohare airport waiting for a flight home in February 1968 when I saw three guys in tropical utility uniforms walking around like they were lost. Some MPs latched onto them..
It was right around the time the White House announced draw downs of units in Vietnam. I always wondered if these guys were part of that and they on a lay over maybe checking out the sites..
I personally know a few that claim the PTSD,,They were drunks and druggies before Nam, and found the easy road...[:(]