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LEO's what do you think?
96harley
Member Posts: 3,992 ✭✭
Yesterday a taxpayer complained about a fed agency going to his brother's house in turn out gear to serve a warrant. He asked if I was aware of it or knew it happened here in town? Of course I as caught off guard and told him I would find something out for him as I was totally in the dark. I called the local sheriff who knew about as much about it as I did, NOTHING.
I told this guy it was usually common courtesy to inform an agency in whose jurisdiction you were operating to alert them to potential problems.
All this was spelled out in detail in my initial report. Today I review my report and a supplement has been added regarding what happened. It seems two of our patrolman, one a prior drug interdiction officer, the other a member of our "ELITE SWAT TEAM"
documnented they were informed of the situation. One stated "SINCE IT WAS A FEDERAL AGENCY I SAW NOT NEED TO WORRY ABOUT JURSIDICTION."
He and I had a little chat. He now knows he is to follow chain of command, not when it benefits him, but all the time when an incident like this takes place. First reason: When a taxpayer asked me what's going on in the area he pays me to work in, I had better have an informed answer due department structure. Second: Any time any agency operates in the area this taxpayer pays me to work in and protect them in; it puts the neighborhood at rest if they see a local officer in uniform instead of storm troopers assaulting the neighborhood.
What do any of you think? I guess I'm ranting, I'll shut up.
"Save the Whalers, they need jobs too."
I told this guy it was usually common courtesy to inform an agency in whose jurisdiction you were operating to alert them to potential problems.
All this was spelled out in detail in my initial report. Today I review my report and a supplement has been added regarding what happened. It seems two of our patrolman, one a prior drug interdiction officer, the other a member of our "ELITE SWAT TEAM"
documnented they were informed of the situation. One stated "SINCE IT WAS A FEDERAL AGENCY I SAW NOT NEED TO WORRY ABOUT JURSIDICTION."
He and I had a little chat. He now knows he is to follow chain of command, not when it benefits him, but all the time when an incident like this takes place. First reason: When a taxpayer asked me what's going on in the area he pays me to work in, I had better have an informed answer due department structure. Second: Any time any agency operates in the area this taxpayer pays me to work in and protect them in; it puts the neighborhood at rest if they see a local officer in uniform instead of storm troopers assaulting the neighborhood.
What do any of you think? I guess I'm ranting, I'll shut up.
"Save the Whalers, they need jobs too."
Comments
it is good that we meet in the struggle of life or death.. .....it shall be life!
You are exactly right in the way you see it. The extreme case of the feds out of control and not using local law enforcement was the Branch Dividians...and we all know what happened there.
The local sheriff in that case was personally acquainted with Koresh and could have solved the whole thing with a telephone call. Koresh would have come in to his office or invited them all to come look around at Mount Carmel. But no! The fed storm troopers had to kick * to show the public how needed they were, and a bunch of folks died as a result. A perfect example of how not to do law enforcement.
No, bud. You have it right. Keep the feds out of your business...which is your taxpayers.
My humble opinion,
Rafter-S
P.S. I am not LEO but I could not resist commenting.
God Bless America and...
NEVER Forget WACO
NEVER, EVER Forget 911
The local sheriff, a passing acquaintance, later called me to appologize for having let them assult my home because he had not been notified they were coming. They came without paper so figured they didn't have to inform the local LEOs.
I'm no longer a LEO, my boy is, and he thought it stank. He is a FED but with a different agency.
These guys were dressed like bikers. I'm a biker but would not approach a man's home dressed like a hood and not expect to be viewed with caution.
People demand freedom of speech to make up for the freedom of thought which they avoid.
BTW even Bondsmen notify the Sheriffs Office before arresting a fugitive to prevent any misunderstanding.
Rugster
"Toujours Pret"
As a matter of procedure the feds will usually call them in at the last minute just to have their recognizable uniforms present. This way there's less chance of either innocent citizens or their target mistaking what's going on.
Now consider what happens if you haven't notified the locals, it goes bad and you need assistance in a hurry. When the local agency shows up they won't know who or what's there. At best, your assistance is delayed by their trying to figure it all out before taking action. The other possibility is that they'll mistake the unknown LEO's for bad guys. For example, during the infamous Miami FBI shootout the local PD was called by citizens reporting a gunfight in the street. These citizens later said they had assumed it was a shootout between drug dealers. It's not widely known, but uniformed Miami PD officers arrived to assist during this prolonged gunfight and also assumed it was two groups of drug dealers having a dispute. A couple of the feds were wearing FBI marked raid jackets but the responding officers had no way of knowing if they were actually bad guys and were forced to just sit and watch it all play out.
Be aware that if it's a federal agency who has rolled in to take action the local agency can't tell them how to handle the situation. However, unless there are compelling reasons to do otherwise it makes good tactical sense to notify them, brief them on what's about to take place and have their members present. Who knows, they might be able to just knock on the door and gain cooperation without a $h!tstorm.
Elaborating a bit more on Txs's post about the Miami shootout. A LE training video was made about the incident. Also, one of the first "In the Line of Fire" tv movies was made about it. The tv movie was very accurate in depicting the shootout. The FBI knew the bank robbers were armed with automatic weapons. The FBI agents were armed with 38's, 357's, 9mm's, and 12 ga. shotguns. (An FBI rule at the time made them carry the shotguns in the car trunks.) The FBI agents were not wearing any tactical gear, even though they knew the bad guys were heavily armed, and had murdered at least 2 people in earlier incidents. When the lead FBI agents pulled alongside the bad guys' vehicle and ordered them to pull over, one of them put a mag in a Mini-14. THAT was enough, considering their past, to shoot them then. But they didn't, and most of us know what happened next. That incident caused me to do 2 things.
1. The best shooter among the FBI agents lost his glasses in the car wreck, and was killed in the firefight because he couldn't see.
1a. I now wear contact lenses.
2. The FBI agents did not have a rifle with them.
2a. I bought an AR-15 A2. I carry it, and enough ammo, that if a bad guy ever gets me, it won't be cause I'm outa bullets!
"If they won't give us good terms, come back and we'll fight it out."
-- Gen. James Longstreet
Response: We told the dispatcher. I don't hold the dispatcher accountable as she was only told some federal agents would be here on business and the two officers were aware of it. It was as if they really didn't want to divulge any information other than the feds were here. Of course there would be no need to give her the details but what they should have done was told her to pass it on the chief or assistant chief and let them make a decision regarding the matter.
The problem arises when a citizen asked what's going on and you have a blank look on your face without a plausable answer.
"Save the Whalers, they need jobs too."
A lot has to do with the reason they notify at the last minute or not at all.
They don't want the person they are going after notified. Someones brother/sister/aunt/uncle/high school friend on the force may want to help or tell them. Or even just one local PD officer telling their friends that they know what's going down.
I dont agree or disagree with this, just telling you what I have heard by fed. agents at one time or another.
Ted Kennedy's car has killed more people than my gun has!
Also, the involved agent's shotguns were being carried in the back seats of their cars that day, but no extra ammo was handy.
Big Daddy my heros have always been cowboys,they still are it seems