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Teachers with guns
calrugerfan
Member Posts: 18,209 ✭
Would you feel more comfortable or less comfortable knowing that your child's teacher was armed?
I don't have kids but my wife is a teacher. Today, she texted me that there were "gun threats" at a different high school in the city she works in. She wanted to leave and come home. I have been tempted so many times to get her a Flashbang holster and a small(ish) gun to have at work. Nobody would ever know she had it unless she needed it in which case, I wouldn't really care.
I don't have kids but my wife is a teacher. Today, she texted me that there were "gun threats" at a different high school in the city she works in. She wanted to leave and come home. I have been tempted so many times to get her a Flashbang holster and a small(ish) gun to have at work. Nobody would ever know she had it unless she needed it in which case, I wouldn't really care.
Comments
I do like the idea of a couple of armed people on every campus. Train an admin staffer like the Principle, plus have a School Resource Officer.
Even more important than that I'd want schools to do what is done around some school districts here. Same way the US Secret Service protects politicians:
- Early Detection
- Threat Assessment
- Planned Intervention
I've sent these documents to dozens of teachers, administrators, school resource officers and local politicians. Wish I could get everyone to read up and learn how to stop attacks before they happen, it does work:
http://www.secretservice.gov/ntac_ssi.shtml
1. It is voluntary on the part of the teacher,
2. Teachers receive both psychological and firearms training,
3. Firearms are kept concealed and are in no manner used for intimidation.
Chris, with a Flashbang holster and my wife's physique, they would literally have to sexually assault her to know she had a gun. Obviously, that is not the case for everybody but it is for my wife.
Sounds like your wife has a certain "Natural Advantage" going on for her, that's great!
My preference in my post above is about effectiveness only. Have nothing against teachers being armed and don't want there to be laws or rules banning it. Just saying doesn't seem the most practical way to go.
Does reminds me of when I was an EMT. Some of us always carried concealed, I did. It was known but frowned upon then, laws against it too. Today it would still be against the rules and illegal under Federal law on school grounds especially.
Yet I know of EMT's and Paramedics who certainly carried a concealed gun onto school grounds back when I was active, when responding to medical calls. Never me, just never got called to a school myself.
Likely still happens to this day here in Arizona and other places, and no one the wiser.
Have never heard of any EMT/Paramedic having to pull a gun, wonder if anyone here has? Must be some who have?
I don't have a problem with teachers being armed provided the following conditions are met:
1. It is voluntary on the part of the teacher,
2. Teachers receive both psychological and firearms training,
3. Firearms are kept concealed and are in no manner used for intimidation.
I would be in favor also, but would add one other caveat:
4.The firearm must be on the teacher's person at all times, not in a desk drawer or locker.
I don't have a problem with teachers being armed provided the following conditions are met:
1. It is voluntary on the part of the teacher,
2. Teachers receive both psychological and firearms training,
3. Firearms are kept concealed and are in no manner used for intimidation.
"Remember how I told you the next time would be the last time you didn't have your homework? Well, what do you know. . ."
Don't know any teachers I'd trust with a weapon. I'm sure they are out tbere, but I bet there are more who would give them a hard time over it.
I have no idea how to respond to that. It sounds like something a liberal would say ("I just don't trust people with guns unless they're the police.")
You would trust a teacher with your child but not with a weapon? You charge them with caring and protecting your child for a large portion of the day but you want them to have no means of defense?
quote:Originally posted by rhythm_guy
Don't know any teachers I'd trust with a weapon. I'm sure they are out tbere, but I bet there are more who would give them a hard time over it.
I have no idea how to respond to that. It sounds like something a liberal would say ("I just don't trust people with guns unless they're the police.")
You would trust a teacher with your child but not with a weapon? You charge them with caring and protecting your child for a large portion of the day but you want them to have no means of defense?
Excellent point...
(We just had a former High School Teacher arrested for molesting some Boy's).
wwhat is a 'flashbang' holster?
Flashbang Bra Holsters:
http://www.looperlawenforcement.com
http://flashbangholsters.publishpath.com/
YouTube Videos:
http://tinyurl.com/lxx2ywq
For the record, our local HS just approved teachers being armed!!
I'm serious too!
The measure met not a single objection!
[^]
EXCELLENT !
Teacher that want to and are qualified should. Just like airline pilots.
Amen!
Here in AR this is a continuing debate. Legislature authorized employees to be armed on college campuses unless administrators chose to opt out each year. So far not one college has allowed guns (surprise, surprise). Some public schools had staff who were licensed as private security guards but state ed agency said no good. Now they are being trained as reserve law officers so they will have full police powers.
I think in this state it will eventually become common for school/college employees to be armed. I think that eventually the logic will overcome the knee-jerk liberal emotional reaction against guns.
Too old to live...too young to die...
Second, what you are saying is that teachers deal with more youth than cops on a regular basis and without the aid of the appearance of major authority nor the availability of weapons yet somehow they are LESS qualified to deal with youth in a violent situation?
Third, why do you say that students will know which teachers are armed even if it is concealed?
My wife is a perfect example of a teacher that would benefit from being armed. We talked about shooter situations in her school. She said, "Well, first, the only two unlocked entrances are on the opposite side of the building so the likely hood that they make it to my classroom first is low. Second, if there WAS a shooting going on, I am lucky enough to have an external exit from my classroom that opens up to a vacant lot. I would lock the classroom door, check that the exit was clear to the best of my ability, then tell the kids to make a beeline to the business across the vacant lot. A gun would only be used as a last resort."
Tell me how somebody unprepared would think that far through. Somebody that would "run around panicking, waving a gun" shouldn't be a teacher at all. Ever seen teachers handle a fire? They do surprisingly well.
But there are a few I would and many of the teachers who taught me as a kid I would have no fear of them carrying matter of fact I cannot be sure they didn't carry in school.
Capgun, first, please tell me that you didn't teach English. Paragraphs man. MY COMPUTER WILL NOT FORM PARAGRAPHS, I WISH IT WOULD.
Second, what you are saying is that teachers deal with more youth than cops on a regular basis and without the aid of the appearance of major authority nor the availability of weapons yet somehow they are LESS qualified to deal with youth in a violent situation? EXACTLY. THAT IS THE REASON THE SCHOOL POLICE RESOURCE OFFICER OR THE POLICE ARE CALLED TO THE SCHOOL WHEN THERE IS A PHYSICAL PROBLEM. THE VAST MAJORITY OF TEACHERS ARE NOT PHYSICALLY OR MENTALLY PREPARED TO DEAL WITH LIFE THREATENING SITUATIONS. IT IS NOT THEIR JOB.
Third, why do you say that students will know which teachers are armed even if it is concealed? KIDS ARE SMART. TEACHERS ARE PHYSICALLY CLOSE TO KIDS ALL DAY, THEY BEND OVER, TURN THEIR BACK ON KIDS, THEY BUMP UP TO KIDS WHEN SUPERVISING THE LUNCH LINE OR OTHER CLOSE CONTACT SITUATIONS. KIDS WILL FIGURE IT OUT. THEY WILL BE LOOKING AT EVERY TEACHER, TRYING TO SEE A GUN.
Tell me how somebody unprepared would think that far through. Somebody that would "run around panicking, waving a gun" shouldn't be a teacher at all. Ever seen teachers handle a fire? They do surprisingly well. TEACHERS ARE NOT POLICE OFFICERS. TRAINED POLICE OFFICERS HAVE ENOUGH TROUBLE HANDLING THESE SITUATIONS. BUT THEY ARE SPECIFICALLY TRAINED IN ACTIVE SHOOTER SCENARIOS, AND CONTINUALLY PRACTICE. THEY HAVE THE PROPER EQUIPMENT AND THE MEANS FOR COMMUNICATING AND COORDINATING WITH EACH OTHER. YOUR EXPERIENCE WITH TEACHERS AT A FIRE OR OTHER EMERGENCY IS VERY DIFFERENT THAN MINE. FIRE DRILLS WORK OUT OK, BECAUSE THERE IS NO ACTUAL DANGER. IN REAL EMERGENCIES IT IS USUALLY A CLUSTER UNTIL THE REAL PROS ARRIVE.
IF teachers were allowed to carry, I'm sure it would be on a volunteer basis and I'd suspect they would be required to take and maintain the training to become & stay proficient with a gun...I have no problem at all with teachers carrying.
I'm for everyone carrying, everywhere, the scumbags should need to have to guess everytime they want to jump anyone...[;)]
As for teachers not being prepared, I was pointing out that they deal with students more than cops do. If anything, they are MORE prepared to deal with students.
Concealed means concealed. Nobody has EVER questioned if I had a gun. And my wife specifically, would wear a flashbang holster. For somebody to know she had a gun, she would have to draw it or be sexually assaulted. It is a lot easier for kids to bring a gun than to try to wrestle one from a teacher.
And yes, my experience is way different than yours regarding fires. There was only one teacher that didn't handle it well. She is actually the one that caused the evacuation. She isn't returning next year.
need to see some more pictures of flash-bang holsters [:p][:D]
more comfortable if they are proficient with them
need to see some more pictures of flash-bang holsters [:p][:D]
Some folks aim to please ...
Me, I'm just pleased to aim [:p]
Enjoy:
http://tinyurl.com/jwglzv9
That sucks about the paragraphs. I just hit enter and it works fine. MAYBE I WILL FIGURE IT OUT.
As for teachers not being prepared, I was pointing out that they deal with students more than cops do. If anything, they are MORE prepared to deal with students. TEACHERS ARE NOT MORE PREPARED TO HANDLE STUDENTS POSING SERIOUS PHYSICAL THREATS, OUR OFFICERS ARE FREQUENTLY CALLED TO SCHOOLS TO HANDLE THOSE PROBLEMS. ACTIVE SHOOTER SITUATIONS ARE THE BIGGEST THREAT. THEY ARE A JOB FOR THE PROS, AND THE PROS SHOULD BE AT THE SCHOOL TO HANDLE THE SITUATION.
Concealed means concealed. Nobody has EVER questioned if I had a gun. And my wife specifically, would wear a flashbang holster. For somebody to know she had a gun, she would have to draw it or be sexually assaulted. It is a lot easier for kids to bring a gun than to try to wrestle one from a teacher. SCHOOLS ARE KEPT WARM, AND TEACHERS DO NOT WEAR BULKY JACKETS, USUALLY LIGHT SHIRTS OR TOPS. AND THE KIDS WOULD BE WATCHING YOUR EVERY MOVE VERY CLOSELY. TO REALLY TRY TO CONCEAL YOUR HANDGUN, IT WOULD HAVE TO BE A VERY SMALL WEAPON. NOT VERY GOOD FOR CONFRONTING AN ACTIVE SHOOTER. I DO NOT KNOW HOW MANY WOMEN WOULD WEAR A FLASHBANG HOSTER EVERY DAY. IT COULD NOT BE COMFORTABLE, PARTICULARLY IN HOT WEATHER, AND THE GUN WOULD HAVE TO BE VERY SMALL. MY WIFE IS A RETIRED SCHOOL TEACHER. I SHOWED HER THE PICTURES ABOVE, AND SHE SAID "ARE YOU NUTS?". AS FAR AS WRESTLING A GUN FROM A TEACHER GOES, THERE WAS NOT A FEMALE TEACHER I HAD IN JR. OR SR. HIGH SCHOOL THAT I COULD NOT HAVE EASILY OVERPOWERED. MOST OF THE MALE TEACHERS ALSO.
And yes, my experience is way different than yours regarding fires. There was only one teacher that didn't handle it well. She is actually the one that caused the evacuation. She isn't returning next year.TEACHERS DO NOT FIGHT THE FIRE, THEY VERY RARELY EVEN US A FIRE EXTINGUISHER. THEIR FUNCTION IS TO GET THE KIDS TO SAFETY. THAT'S HOW IT SHOULD BE. LEAVE THE WORK FIGHTING THE FIRE, OR FIGHTING THE ARMED THREAT, TO THE PROS (OR THOSE VERY FEW TEACHERS WHO MEET MY CRITERIA FOR CCW).
Connecticut has gun free zones.
Now, lets have a math quiz:
Which state has never had a mass school shooting?
Which state has had a mass school shooting?
Got brains? How's your math
Wulfmann
"Fools learn from their own mistakes. I learn from the mistakes of others"
Otto von Bismarck
Florida schools have armed resource officers either police or deputies on campus all the time. Larger high schools have a sub station.
Connecticut has gun free zones.
Now, lets have a math quiz:
Which state has never had a mass school shooting?
Which state has had a mass school shooting?
Got brains? How's your math
Wulfmann
I know lots of retired police officers who would volunteer to be at schools. They could help with other activities also, like athletics. The schools and police agencies just never got with the program. Those experienced retired officers would be prepared to properly handle any emergency.
Custodians have less up-close contact with students, and one extra key to a gun cabinet in the boiler room won't be a problem. Most of the custodians around here are deer hunters already.
I would rather see the school custodians armed, or at least with access to a firearm.
Custodians have less up-close contact with students, and one extra key to a gun cabinet in the boiler room won't be a problem. Most of the custodians around here are deer hunters already.
What good are guns locked in Cabinets.
quote:Originally posted by Zinderbloc
I would rather see the school custodians armed, or at least with access to a firearm.
Custodians have less up-close contact with students, and one extra key to a gun cabinet in the boiler room won't be a problem. Most of the custodians around here are deer hunters already.
What good are guns locked in Cabinets.
Exactly!
And as for teachers having to call the police for issues, of course they do! But call the police for an active shooter? Why bother? He'll run out of ammo or targets before they make entry.
Volunteers would be great but it wouldn't work. Volunteers would quickly get tired of walking the halls. They retired for a reason.
quote:Originally posted by rhythm_guy
Don't know any teachers I'd trust with a weapon. I'm sure they are out tbere, but I bet there are more who would give them a hard time over it.
I have no idea how to respond to that. It sounds like something a liberal would say ("I just don't trust people with guns unless they're the police.")
You would trust a teacher with your child but not with a weapon? You charge them with caring and protecting your child for a large portion of the day but you want them to have no means of defense?
You have no idea how to respond, so you respond. OK.
My point is that most teachers I know wouldn't know which end of the gun to hold. In case you haven't heard many educators are liberals. I trust my child with a teacher to do what they are trained to do - teach. I have no problem with educators carrying as long as they are competent, but my original statement (which obviously didn't convey my idea very well) stands - of the teachers I know, there are not many I'd want carrying.
IF the States would kick the FEDS out of ALL the administrative areas COMPLETELY, squelch the Teachers Union, reinstae REAL disipline...all this debate would not need to be taking place.
...The way the Feds have hijacked, raped and destroyed the education abilities of the public school system, is the ROOT and sole reason this debate can take place.
Feds & Liberal School Boards (BACKED by the Feds) neutered the good teachers 2-3 DECADES ago, those who actually care(d).
...What is wrong with this picture?
1)...Collected State school district funds are sent to DC once collected thru property taxes or school taxes.
2)...DC keeps a big % percent of the funds, sends adjusted amount back to school districts with INSTRUCTIONS/RULES/REGS on HOW the district is to utilize those funds. DC did not steal the percent of funds they confiscated, DC considers that % percent payment due for deciding how THEY want the districts to utilize the monies.
...What a wonderful system the Feds have worked out!
I mean... WHO knows BETTER how a school district in up State New York...a small southern town in Alabama or a a school district in far west Texas should BEST spend their collected school tax dollars than a little fat pencil headed twit behind a desk in DC?...[^]
quote:Originally posted by calrugerfan
quote:Originally posted by rhythm_guy
Don't know any teachers I'd trust with a weapon. I'm sure they are out tbere, but I bet there are more who would give them a hard time over it.
I have no idea how to respond to that. It sounds like something a liberal would say ("I just don't trust people with guns unless they're the police.")
You would trust a teacher with your child but not with a weapon? You charge them with caring and protecting your child for a large portion of the day but you want them to have no means of defense?
You have no idea how to respond, so you respond. OK.
My point is that most teachers I know wouldn't know which end of the gun to hold. In case you haven't heard many educators are liberals. I trust my child with a teacher to do what they are trained to do - teach. I have no problem with educators carrying as long as they are competent, but my original statement (which obviously didn't convey my idea very well) stands - of the teachers I know, there are not many I'd want carrying.
I responded after much thought. I realize that many are liberals. But on the flip side, many are not. The ones that don't like guns wouldn't carry them. I know plenty of conservative teachers. I even know some liberal gun enthusiasts. Being a liberal doesn't mean you don't know how to use a gun.
MIKE
The problem with your point is the assumption reason and logic have a part in today's education system designed to make progressive children into compliant adults but then your point is also correct regarding what has caused this problem.
In Florida (at least the counties I have lived) schools have on duty cops/deputies not retired not armed security guards.
These LEOs are armed and what most don't seem to get is the fact it is known that armed police are stationed at schools gives the perception of of a strong deterrent to wackos like the Sandy Hook and Virginia Tech psychos who are looking for easy victims not a strong defense against their insanity.
If the intention is to make schools safer from attack then a know defense as compared to a nice sign begging you don't hurt our defenseless children cause we admit we can't stop you is common sense. Oops, common sense, i see the flaw in that logic with today's liberals
Wulfmann
"Fools learn from their own mistakes. I learn from the mistakes of others"
Otto von Bismarck