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The only improvement in the last 40 years
torosapo
Member Posts: 4,946
It has become my opinoin that the only improvement in automobiles in the last 40 years, is the disc brakes. Sure there has been luxuaries and cosmetics added. But the basic car has not improved.
In 1973 my sister drove a 4000+ lb car that got around 25 mpg hgwy.
How many vehicles today can do that. In the 90's I drove an old beater 3/4 ton Chevy van, got around 15 mpg, my 1994 Chrysler gets the same.
Yeah I know, electronic ignition gives more dependable and more consistant spark, they had that in 1973.
In 1973 my sister drove a 4000+ lb car that got around 25 mpg hgwy.
How many vehicles today can do that. In the 90's I drove an old beater 3/4 ton Chevy van, got around 15 mpg, my 1994 Chrysler gets the same.
Yeah I know, electronic ignition gives more dependable and more consistant spark, they had that in 1973.
Comments
All the technology, fancy bs, this and that. And the only thing all this eps bs was about was pushing up the cost of the vehicles.
Hey Perry, you are right. I get a full 1/2 mpg better mileage if I can fill up with the real stuff.
Fuel Injection and better engine Management systems(Computer) Sure they are hard to work on but do they ever make better Power.
Oh yeah, you can work on them, if you have the computerized equipment an books to tell you what the codes are. The 1970 Chevy truck I'm looking at has 3 wires and one fuel line. The fuel pump is on the engine, not in the tank. Most work can be done with a crescent wrench, pliers and 2 screwdrivers, alongside the road.
quote:Originally posted by grumpygy
Fuel Injection and better engine Management systems(Computer) Sure they are hard to work on but do they ever make better Power.
Oh yeah, you can work on them, if you have the computerized equipment an books to tell you what the codes are. The 1970 Chevy truck I'm looking at has 3 wires and one fuel line. The fuel pump is on the engine, not in the tank. Most work can be done with a crescent wrench, pliers and 2 screwdrivers, alongside the road.
Suggest changing the Fuel pump to Electric in Line Just After the Line leaves the tank. Get stuck in the summer and have the underside heat build up get Vapor Lock. That gets to be a pain.
I think Radial tires became mainstream in the last 40 years.
Now if you look at motorcycles from 40 years ago to motorcycles of today- Every bike out there is far superior to their predecessor, EXCEPT Harley Davidson...
Yea, not many improvements...... [;)][;)][;)]
Back in the mid-70's most any car you saw with over 100,000 miles on it was ready for the scrap yard, with most not even making it that far. This was a factory acknowledged fact of life, with odometer designs topping out at 120k.
Nowadays it's not uncommon at all to see cars with over twice this number of miles still rolling strong.
quote:Originally posted by bartman45
I miss my '68 & '74 VW bugs.........
Rust protection
That's for dang sure, they got a pretty good handle on that finally.
Now if you look at motorcycles from 40 years ago to motorcycles of today- Every bike out there is far superior to their predecessor, EXCEPT Harley Davidson...
Your kidding right?
My 06 vrod is fuel enjected and liquid cooled, 100, 000 is break in on these
Cup Holders, we've surpassed our grandparents wildest dreams in cup holders.
Yeah, I lost count at about 84 and that is just in front.
today's cars do self destruct instead of what is inside self destructing on all that steel. At least that is the sales pitch, I don't believe I have seen any stats on survival rates now compared to then. I know I would rather hit todays dashboards than 50's dash boards of steel.
And don't discount all the luxuries, I deserve 'em.[^]
Fuel Injection and better engine Management systems(Computer) Sure they are hard to work on but do they ever make better Power.
The 195 Chevy 283 was fuel injected.[:I]
And fiery auto crashes
Some will die in hot pursuit
While sifting through my ashes
Some will fall in love with life
And drink it from a fountain
That is pouring like an avalanche
Coming down the mountain
quote:Originally posted by grumpygy
Fuel Injection and better engine Management systems(Computer) Sure they are hard to work on but do they ever make better Power.
The 195 Chevy 283 was fuel injected.[:I]
But compared to today's standards it was not very efficient.
Most of todays 4 and 6 cylinders only wish they could do so well!
Very comfortable too. [;)][^][:D]
quote:Originally posted by Mr. Perfect
quote:Originally posted by grumpygy
Fuel Injection and better engine Management systems(Computer) Sure they are hard to work on but do they ever make better Power.
The 195 Chevy 283 was fuel injected.[:I]
But compared to today's standards it was not very efficient.
Slight improvement at best. The only real improvements I've noticed are the suspension systems. Old cars just don't handle as well.
And fiery auto crashes
Some will die in hot pursuit
While sifting through my ashes
Some will fall in love with life
And drink it from a fountain
That is pouring like an avalanche
Coming down the mountain
My '69 Buick Electra with a 430 CID engine, 4bbl. carb and 4300 lb. curb weight got 25+ mpg on the highway and 17-18 mpg in town.
Most of todays 4 and 6 cylinders only wish they could do so well!That duece-and-a-quarter going 150-200k miles with only minor maintenance was also only a wish.
With today's cars no less should be expected.
New cars are miles better than old. I had my share of carbureted vehicles in the past and I tell you, I will take an fuelie over a carb any day. I always hated having to tinker with fuel systems and ignition systems all weekend just so I could drive it during the week.
quote:Originally posted by Horse Plains Drifter
quote:Originally posted by cartod
Rust protection
That's for dang sure, they got a pretty good handle on that finally.
They had no choice. Before the early 90's, cars had real steel in them and body shops could fix body damage. Today with tin foil fenders, body shops only replace parts.
[:(]
That is also why modern cars are safer. The structure is designed to absorb energy. The old, solid cars didn't have any "give" and just transferred the impact energy to the fleshy bits on the inside.
Edit:
Chances are that your modern 4 banger is getting poor (relatively) gas millage because it is tuned (ECU) for lowest emissions instead of peak millage. It's a trade off with smaller engines when it comes to gas millage, emissions, and power.
quote:Originally posted by gesshots
My '69 Buick Electra with a 430 CID engine, 4bbl. carb and 4300 lb. curb weight got 25+ mpg on the highway and 17-18 mpg in town.
Most of todays 4 and 6 cylinders only wish they could do so well!That duece-and-a-quarter going 150-200k miles with only minor maintenance was also only a wish.
With today's cars no less should be expected.
Still going strong at 123K when she was trashed by a rear ender.
Only repairs a fuel pump, oil pump and radiator. [^]
First production car with all 4 having discs was the Porsche 356C and SC, first rolled off the assembly line in late '63 and sold as '64 model year. The 356B from mid '62 thru end of production in '63 had discs up front and drums in rear.
quote:Originally posted by torosapo
It has become my opinoin that the only improvement in automobiles in the last 40 years, is the disc brakes. Sure there has been luxuaries and cosmetics added. But the basic car has not improved.
In 1973 my sister drove a 4000+ lb car that got around 25 mpg hgwy.
How many vehicles today can do that. In the 90's I drove an old beater 3/4 ton Chevy van, got around 15 mpg, my 1994 Chrysler gets the same.
Yeah I know, electronic ignition gives more dependable and more consistant spark, they had that in 1973.
quote:Originally posted by cartod
Rust protection
That's for dang sure, they got a pretty good handle on that finally.
Another Porsche process... galvanized steel bodies started in '74 or 75 IRRC
It has become my opinoin that the only improvement in automobiles in the last 40 years, is the disc brakes. Sure there has been luxuaries and cosmetics added. But the basic car has not improved.
In 1973 my sister drove a 4000+ lb car that got around 25 mpg hgwy.
How many vehicles today can do that. In the 90's I drove an old beater 3/4 ton Chevy van, got around 15 mpg, my 1994 Chrysler gets the same.
Yeah I know, electronic ignition gives more dependable and more consistant spark, they had that in 1973.
Now you're exactly right! In fact, so many things haven't improved over the years! Back in 1962 I have a 12 shot Smith revolver that could print 1 inch groups at 400 yards shooting one handed while I held a beer in the other hand and while I was smoking a cigarette. I have a pocket knife so sharp I once cut down a 36 inch red oak in one swipe. Every girl I dated in high school went on to be a Playboy playmate and I killed 34,000,000 Viet Cong in one year in southeast Asia!
Saying cars haven't improved in 40 years is an astoundingly stupid statement. If you asked me to sit and think of one thing that HASN'T improved on cars in the past 40 years, I'd have trouble doing so.
Could you please name that 1973 4,000 car that got 25 miles to the gallon? Did perhaps quite a few of those miles come as she was rolling down Pike's Peak? Yes, the 1994 Chrysler mini-van with a 6 cylinder got 15 mpg, but the 2012 mini-van with a 6 cylinder gets 17. Oh, and BTW, the 1994 produced 150 horsepower while the 2012 produced 197. But that's no improvement, is it?
And two things to note about miles per gallon: In 1975 when the government required catalytic converters this was a massive DISADVANTAGE to gas mileage. The fact that gas mileage has increased despite this is a testament to the hard work of many automotive engineers. And if you're pissing and moaning about gas mileage, you might want to remember that it's that horrible, rotten, bad federal government and its CAFE regulations that made the automakers really work to get cars with better gas mileage. Oh, that and the Japanese producing much better cars that were more reliable and got much better miles per gallon. But then again, under your whole "Cars have never gotten better" hypothesis that didn't happen either.
Safety equipment, emissions, crumple zones, engines with much tighter tolerances, reliability, aerodynamics, handling, fit and finish, horsepower, comfort, paint quality--anybody who knows jack squat about cars knows there's light years of difference between the cars of 1973 and 2013.
quote:Originally posted by Dave W.
Now if you look at motorcycles from 40 years ago to motorcycles of today- Every bike out there is far superior to their predecessor, EXCEPT Harley Davidson...
Your kidding right?
My 06 vrod is fuel enjected and liquid cooled, 100, 000 is break in on these
This is turning into a theme... the vrod engine was designed by Porsche
I owned a few bugs in my days,one a 66 had no gas gauge,I would run out of gas every month forgetting to gas up.[:D]
quote:Originally posted by bartman45
I miss my '68 & '74 VW bugs.........
I thought some of the gauge less VW's had a screw valve that opened a small fuel reserve. Often toyed with the idea of getting a VW of that era; however,prices seem to start at about $5K and go way up.
quote:Originally posted by catpealer111
Fuel Injection, modern oil, hardened valve seats, radial tyres, low profile tires, aerodynamics, electronic ignition....
New cars are miles better than old. I had my share of carbureted vehicles in the past and I tell you, I will take an fuelie over a carb any day. I always hated having to tinker with fuel systems and ignition systems all weekend just so I could drive it during the week.
That is also why modern cars are safer. The structure is designed to absorb energy. The old, solid cars didn't have any "give" and just transferred the impact energy to the fleshy bits on the inside.Yep.
People look at a torn up car from what seemed to be a minor crash and walk away spouting how it was a cheaply built POS, but those engineered crumple zones are really a very good thing. I've seen hoods and trunk lids become guillotines from crashes that today would be nothing more than a serious inconvenience.
I'd MUCH rather deal with repair/replacement of sheet metal and plastic than having a family member injured or killed. That's just money and there'll always be more out there.
quote:Originally posted by torosapo
It has become my opinoin that the only improvement in automobiles in the last 40 years, is the disc brakes. Sure there has been luxuaries and cosmetics added. But the basic car has not improved.
In 1973 my sister drove a 4000+ lb car that got around 25 mpg hgwy.
How many vehicles today can do that. In the 90's I drove an old beater 3/4 ton Chevy van, got around 15 mpg, my 1994 Chrysler gets the same.
Yeah I know, electronic ignition gives more dependable and more consistant spark, they had that in 1973.
Now you're exactly right! In fact, so many things haven't improved over the years! Back in 1962 I have a 12 shot Smith revolver that could print 1 inch groups at 400 yards shooting one handed while I held a beer in the other hand and while I was smoking a cigarette. I have a pocket knife so sharp I once cut down a 36 inch red oak in one swipe. Every girl I dated in high school went on to be a Playboy playmate and I killed 34,000,000 Viet Cong in one year in southeast Asia!
Saying cars haven't improved in 40 years is an astoundingly stupid statement. If you asked me to sit and think of one thing that HASN'T improved on cars in the past 40 years, I'd have trouble doing so.
Could you please name that 1973 4,000 car that got 25 miles to the gallon? Did perhaps quite a few of those miles come as she was rolling down Pike's Peak? Yes, the 1994 Chrysler mini-van with a 6 cylinder got 15 mpg, but the 2012 mini-van with a 6 cylinder gets 17. Oh, and BTW, the 1994 produced 150 horsepower while the 2012 produced 197. But that's no improvement, is it?
And two things to note about miles per gallon: In 1975 when the government required catalytic converters this was a massive DISADVANTAGE to gas mileage. The fact that gas mileage has increased despite this is a testament to the hard work of many automotive engineers. And if you're pissing and moaning about gas mileage, you might want to remember that it's that horrible, rotten, bad federal government and its CAFE regulations that made the automakers really work to get cars with better gas mileage. Oh, that and the Japanese producing much better cars that were more reliable and got much better miles per gallon. But then again, under your whole "Cars have never gotten better" hypothesis that didn't happen either.
Safety equipment, emissions, crumple zones, engines with much tighter tolerances, reliability, aerodynamics, handling, fit and finish, horsepower, comfort, paint quality--anybody who knows jack squat about cars knows there's light years of difference between the cars of 1973 and 2013.
You seem to have your opinion, he has his. Good bet he thinks yours is stupid as well.