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So I got pulled over for speeding weeks ago...
ruger270man
Member Posts: 9,361 ✭✭
The cop asked me if I was a lawyer. And then he rightfully assumed I wasn't signing the ticket without a lawyer being provided and present, seeing as when I asked him if I was being detained, he said yes.
So the next day I sent a registered letter asking for the Oaths of Office of the district judge and the cop, in accordance with the Open Records Act, Sunshine Act, etc etc.. stated the law, the whole 9 yards.
I never sent the ticket in within the "10 day allotment". I have yet to receive copies of the oaths or a subpoena for the summary offense.
I couldn't care less about the summary offense. But theyre starting to pi$$ me off by ignoring my request for public records, and without their oaths, they are impersonating a judge and an officer.
What is my next course of action? Should I go to the county sheriff?
So the next day I sent a registered letter asking for the Oaths of Office of the district judge and the cop, in accordance with the Open Records Act, Sunshine Act, etc etc.. stated the law, the whole 9 yards.
I never sent the ticket in within the "10 day allotment". I have yet to receive copies of the oaths or a subpoena for the summary offense.
I couldn't care less about the summary offense. But theyre starting to pi$$ me off by ignoring my request for public records, and without their oaths, they are impersonating a judge and an officer.
What is my next course of action? Should I go to the county sheriff?
Comments
If so then pay the ticket.
If not fight it but don't expect to win, even if you don't have to pay the ticket you will lose the next time you get pulled over.
Mike
The cop asked me if I was a lawyer. And then he rightfully assumed I wasn't signing the ticket without a lawyer being provided and present, seeing as when I asked him if I was being detained, he said yes.
So the next day I sent a registered letter asking for the Oaths of Office of the district judge and the cop, in accordance with the Open Records Act, Sunshine Act, etc etc.. stated the law, the whole 9 yards.
I never sent the ticket in within the "10 day allotment". I have yet to receive copies of the oaths or a subpoena for the summary offense.
I couldn't care less about the summary offense. But theyre starting to pi$$ me off by ignoring my request for public records, and without their oaths, they are impersonating a judge and an officer.
What is my next course of action? Should I go to the county sheriff?
get a lawyer, you're going to need one to fight that ticket [B)]
quote:Originally posted by ruger270man
The cop asked me if I was a lawyer. And then he rightfully assumed I wasn't signing the ticket without a lawyer being provided and present, seeing as when I asked him if I was being detained, he said yes.
So the next day I sent a registered letter asking for the Oaths of Office of the district judge and the cop, in accordance with the Open Records Act, Sunshine Act, etc etc.. stated the law, the whole 9 yards.
I never sent the ticket in within the "10 day allotment". I have yet to receive copies of the oaths or a subpoena for the summary offense.
I couldn't care less about the summary offense. But theyre starting to pi$$ me off by ignoring my request for public records, and without their oaths, they are impersonating a judge and an officer.
What is my next course of action? Should I go to the county sheriff?
get a lawyer, you're going to need one to fight that ticket [B)]
A lawyer? Sounds like a waste of money. I know my rights.
You could go make your pleas at the location that the officer works or the judges office for what you are wanting. What does their oath have to do with the ticket? Do you not think the officer was acting lawfully? Why did you pull over if you don't think he was acting lawfully?
I would contact the court before too long, wouldn't want it to go to a warrant and have them lock you up.
My oath is in my file and I have a copy on my person, was he not in uniform in a marked police car? Or are you just jacking around trying to get out of the ticket?
Good luck.
I forgot, it used to be this way, I think it still is. In Texas, if you don't sign the ticket, you will probably take a ride then and have to pay for the traffic violation. The signature on the ticket is not a plea of guilty, but a promise to appear within the 10 days. Speeding I think is different, you might have 10 days for the ticket but when you don't sign, it used to be violate promise to appear. I guess its different up in PA.
So the Failure to Appear and everything else are separate acts.
the Oaths of Office have nothing to do with your violation.
Margaret Thatcher
"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies and statistics."
Mark Twain
PA Constitution, Article I, Section 9
"In all criminal prosecutions the accused hath a right to be heard by himself and his counsel, to demand the nature and cause of the accusation against him, to be confronted with the witnesses against him... " etc etc etc.
The supreme court as ruled that the cop or the judge can't legally act as a prosecutor and a witness at the same time. Neither can act in a dual capacity. They know as well as I do that its not worth the money to pay for a prosecutor for an hour when were talking a couple hundred bucks.
But thats neither here nor there. I'm not going to even bother attending a hearing without them proving to me that they are legitimate.
I see trouble for you when it is time to renew your drivers license.
What does their oath have to do with the ticket?
To make sure I don't bother wasting my time with a fake judge and a fake cop. If your neighbor came over and gave you a piece of paper that says you were speeding, and you have to send him $200, would you send it to him? No. Just because some guy is wearing a badge and drives a crown vic doesn't make him a cop, and just because some guy is wearing a black robe doesn't make him a judge.
PA Constitution, Article VI, Section 3.
Senators, Representatives and all judicial, State and county officers shall, before entering on the duties of their respective offices, take and subscribe the following oath or affirmation before a person authorized to administer oaths. "I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support, obey and defend the Constitution of the United States and the Constitution of this Commonwealth and that I will discharge the duties of my office with fidelity." The oath or affirmation shall be administered to a member of the Senate or to a member of the House of Representatives in the hall of the House to which he shall have been elected. Any person refusing to take the oath or affirmation shall forfeit his office.
But thats not the point. I dont care about the citation. I'm trying to get their oaths. What course of action should I take? If they don't produce their oaths, they need to be removed from office. I'm tired of this bullcrap.
The ticket is just a promise to appear. The judge and court are the adjudicating authority.
So the Failure to Appear and everything else are separate acts.
the Oaths of Office have nothing to do with your violation.
The oaths have everything to do with the "violation". If they don't have the oaths, their intent to prosecute me is null and void. Not to mention any act of authority they have make in the past is also nullified, and gives each victim legal recourse.
Oh Boy.
I see trouble for you when it is time to renew your drivers license.
My license has been expired for months.
What did the cop say about that when you gave him an expired DL?
Well when he asked for the documents, I asked him "Would you punish me if I refused to provide evidence that can be used against myself in court?"
To which he replied "you are illegally required to give those documents to travel on my highway." (I got a crack out of that)
So I gave it to him.. which I regret doing now. And he goes "har har I see why you were hestitant to give them to me"
Besides, even if for some reason I did pay the fine for expired license, if its within 1 year of expiration, they can only charge $25.
Okay, so does anyone want to help me with my course of action for getting copies of the oath, and if not, getting these guys removed from office?
Thanks.
An oath of office is something done at the time they are sworn to office and is open to the public.
If you didn't go then you missed it. It is not something they have to provide to you. It was done and recorded.
Believe me I have been down the trail you are headed and it is a deep hole to climb back out of. Thats the only help I can offer you.
You can fight, but you can't beat city hall!
How do you know he's not a fake cop? How does he know your not a taliban terrorist. Thats an equally valid question.
Maybe he should have arrested you and turned you over to ICE.
As it's been mentioned pay the man and give me back my time I spent reading this and the time spent on typing, while you're at it Ruger270man[:D].
Oh heck. Just wait for the warrant to come out.
When the warrant comes, barracade yourself in your house and ask the swat team for their papers.
Oh heck. Just wait for the warrant to come out.
?
How would he know if its a real warrant and not one of those fake warrants they make these days[:o)]
your going to lose. big. why were you driving on an expired license? why were you speeding? more to the point, why were you speeding while knowing full well you were expired? now, add to those the failure to answer the citation and im sure you'll rack up a few more charges by the time your done with this fiasco.
you laughed at him calling it his road? while you may pay the taxes to fund it, he's the law. it is his road. you were on it, in violation of at least two laws. you've made a mockery of his duty to enforce the law and are planning to engage in frivolous litigation. its lawyers like you that cause people to have a deep seated hatred for lawyers. i wish they could pull your bar card for this crap. i hope they throw the book at you.
Do Nothing.
Just wait until you are pulled over again and they will be glad to advise you that you are driving on a Suspended License due to an Outstanding Traffic Ticket.
Here in WV it is not that bad for first offense DWR.
Just a mandatory 48 hours in Jail, Nice Fine and a Hefty Court Cost.
Then you must go back and pay the Original Traffic Ticket and Court Cost, Pay a Good Reinstatement Fee, maybe have to attend Driving Class that cost a bundle to attend and wait anywhere from 30 Days to a Year before you can get your Driver Licenses back (depending on the judge).
Then you will have a Driving While Suspended or Revoked going on your Driving Record for at least Seven Years and possible Huge Hike on the Auto Insurance Premium once the news gets transfered back to your Auto Insurance Company.
You are doing a good job at fighting a traffic ticket that most likely would or could have been dismissed or lowered to an offense that would have cost you very little considering what it will cost you to fight the system and still LOSE.
We don't generally go knock doors to serve traffic warrants. If he got stopped once, he will get stopped again. The warrant will be discovered, he will be arrested, and his vehicle impounded. And, of course, his trip, whether he was on his way to work or out for an evening with his lady friend, will be interrupted.
your right nunn some jurisdiction don't.. but some do. in my sons case they did. his bail was not only for the fine of $100.00 but he had to pay $80.00 for the warrant fee and another $50.00 for the extradition fee because his ticket was in a different city than here he lived. and if rugg270mans license is suspended, and gets pulled over driving, then he'll get another ticket for driving on a suspended license. that could amount to a $300- 400.00 fine
Probably, if I stopped a feller for speeding, and he had an expired license, and he refused to sign the citation, he would have an opportunity to visit with a judge the next morning, after a night on a concrete bunk.
I have a question for you. Maybe you can answer it and maybe not.
For example.
Lets say that I got a speeding ticket and did not pay it by mailing it in or appearing in court.
Now my question is. Do you know about how long it takes for the court system to suspend a licenses through the DMV after the dead line for mailing in the fine and/or court date?
It is just something that I have wondered about.
Pluse your car goes to jail and the storage and towing fees. Adds up quick.
Bode
(deleted) has been calling people various (deleted) names over in the newest ria thread for a while now. no edits there...
Name calling is not allowed. Pointing out bad behavior of others as a defense for your own is childish. I will watch for the other fella.
nunn
Nunn
I have a question for you. Maybe you can answer it and maybe not.
For example.
Lets say that I got a speeding ticket and did not pay it by mailing it in or appearing in court.
Now my question is. Do you know about how long it takes for the court system to suspend a licenses through the DMV after the dead line for mailing in the fine and/or court date?
It is just something that I have wondered about.
here in Utah when you time is up, they issue warrant and suspend your license the next day. can't say when your state does
I'd be careful if this goes to court. You may be legally right, but never piss off a traffic judge. The judge will end up giving you the stiffest penalty he can, which may involve jail time as well.
You can fight, but you can't beat city hall!
Been ther done that! Got the orange jump suit![B)]
Lemme know if the money and time you spend jerking around with this is worth the final outcome.
Compared to the exorbitant cost of obeying the speed limits, that is.
Oh heck. Just wait for the warrant to come out.
And it will! Might take a while but it will.
An oath of office is something done at the time they are sworn to office and is open to the public.
If you didn't go then you missed it. It is not something they have to
Thats incorrect. At least in PA anyway.
GEE! Are you really a real cop? How about you Judge, were you elected or appointed? Can I see your credentials? Yep I can see it now..[:D][:D][:D][:D] [8][8][8] OH! did I mention I was breaking the law by driving on an expired License???ROFLMAO
There have been a few judges and cops arrested for impersonating their positions due to a lack of an oath of office, in Butler county, not far from me.
i've never heard of anyone trying to challenge a traffic ticket from the angle that they cant secure a copy of the policeman's oath. thats probably because its the most ridiculous theory possible. what was you plan if they gave you copies of their oaths and they were all in order? this was a stupid plan from the get go. now you've made it worse by not answering the ticket within the prescribed time. i would say your lucky that you dont live in a state that requires you to sign it or face a trip to jail. remember, signing the ticket is not a admission of guilt, its merely a verification that the ticket was received by you and a promise to pay or appeal within the time frame.
your going to lose. big. why were you driving on an expired license? why were you speeding? more to the point, why were you speeding while knowing full well you were expired? now, add to those the failure to answer the citation and im sure you'll rack up a few more charges by the time your done with this fiasco.
you laughed at him calling it his road? while you may pay the taxes to fund it, he's the law. it is his road. you were on it, in violation of at least two laws. you've made a mockery of his duty to enforce the law and are planning to engage in frivolous litigation. its lawyers like you that cause people to have a deep seated hatred for lawyers. i wish they could pull your bar card for this crap. i hope they throw the book at you.
If they have an oath, they have to follow it. If they don't have an oath, see ya later.
you were driving on an expired license.
you were speeding.
lets see....
1 wrong + 1 wrong = 2 wrongs.
[:0][:I][:D]
GUILTY!
Former Member U.S. Navy Shooting Team
Former NSSA All American
Navy Distinguished Pistol Shot
MO, CT, VA.