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When I read your second post I saw where you said "Taurus 1911 Al with factory goodies."
Being a 1911 Snob, I basically stopped reading right there, and determined that your problem was the brand name...[;)]
Sounds like you are pretty much convinced what caused the discharge, but if I were you I would put a lot of faith in anything Perry Shooter or 1911a1-fan says about your problem.
I have seen primers "back out" on fired ammo, but I don't recall ever seeing a primer extrude into the firing pin hole. It seems to me if the firing pin struck the primer, there should be a normal looking firing pin indent in the primer. My limited knowledge aside, and unless I am missing something, this would rule out a negligent discharge. As has been stated, in a series 80 system, a lot of things have to happen for a firing pin to strike the primer. Somewhere there has to be an explanation.
quote:Originally posted by lkannes
I have seen primers "back out" on fired ammo, but I don't recall ever seeing a primer extrude into the firing pin hole. It seems to me if the firing pin struck the primer, there should be a normal looking firing pin indent in the primer. My limited knowledge aside, and unless I am missing something, this would rule out a negligent discharge. As has been stated, in a series 80 system, a lot of things have to happen for a firing pin to strike the primer. Somewhere there has to be an explanation.
Have a really close look at the raised portion of the primer.
Is it perfectly rounded, or is there a mark in the middle of the "weld"?
Since it fired & ejected the round, my money is on a firing pin strike that got pushed back out somehow.
Try to duplicate the half-cocked situation with a primed, but not loaded round. Bump the slide, jiggle the grip safety, shuffle your butt around on the seat covers, comb your hair, etc. and see if it goes off.
If that doesn't work, seat a primer a tad high & try again.
Unless Taurus is secretly building guns with extra firing pins, super strong springs, or dysfunctional grip safeties; my money is on operator error.
quote:Originally posted by 1911a1-fan
quote:Originally posted by lkannes
I have seen primers "back out" on fired ammo, but I don't recall ever seeing a primer extrude into the firing pin hole. It seems to me if the firing pin struck the primer, there should be a normal looking firing pin indent in the primer. My limited knowledge aside, and unless I am missing something, this would rule out a negligent discharge. As has been stated, in a series 80 system, a lot of things have to happen for a firing pin to strike the primer. Somewhere there has to be an explanation.
ever hear of primer blanking ?
Your previous post about static electricity.. I don't believe it for a moment. If that were the case it would have went off when I touched it in the console. Weld location is exact to where primer would strike. The pic you posted is similar but worse. Not quite that high of a raise in the primer. But damn close.
quote:Originally posted by select-fire
I have played out exactly the sequence of what happened. I got up in the truck, opened the console, picked up my leather wallet and comb that was on top of the gun. Put the wallet in my rear pocket and combed my hair. Put the comb in my back pocket. Picked up the gun with my right hand and moved it from the console to approx the angle of the glove box and it discharged into the lower part of the box. It was not in position to look down sights but sideways like a gang banger would shoot. Nothing was bumped and I had a light grip on it, not a death grip. gun almost jumped out of my hand after going off. I do have a problem. I shot the gun two days ago and ran some ball ammo thru it. When I reloaded the gun with the magtech guardian gold, I installed the mag and hand charged the round. IF that primer was out too far , it should have went off when I charged it. The spot in the center of the primer looks like it is welded to the primer. I did clean my truck two days ago and installed seat covers over the leather seats. They have been on the truck before with no issue. IF this firearm went off because I combed my hair and put my wallet in the back pocket while in the drivers seat because of static electricity. Never heard of that before and is it possible to ignite a primer. NO primer indentation at all, looks like it is welded together. I took the gun out and shot it numerous times no faults.... If the gun is faulty I will cut it up in little pieces.
your pics are horrid but a raised center REVERSED firing pin indentation shows the firing pin was retraced and did not fire the gun. Chamber pressure extruded the primer cup into the firing pin hole. It seems like a faulty primer caused the discharge. The ammo company owes you a bit of body work and a new pair of underwear.
quote:Originally posted by select-fire
quote:Originally posted by 1911a1-fan
quote:Originally posted by lkannes
I have seen primers "back out" on fired ammo, but I don't recall ever seeing a primer extrude into the firing pin hole. It seems to me if the firing pin struck the primer, there should be a normal looking firing pin indent in the primer. My limited knowledge aside, and unless I am missing something, this would rule out a negligent discharge. As has been stated, in a series 80 system, a lot of things have to happen for a firing pin to strike the primer. Somewhere there has to be an explanation.
ever hear of primer blanking ?
Your previous post about static electricity.. I don't believe it for a moment. If that were the case it would have went off when I touched it in the console. Weld location is exact to where primer would strike. The pic you posted is similar but worse. Not quite that high of a raise in the primer. But damn close.
Scientist don't even know what static electricity is. They played with electricity for fifty years before they were able to describe what it was.
There was an incident about 30 years or so ago where a flyer was carrying loose MK79 pencil flares in the foot pocket of his flight suit. The flares have mechanical primers similar to cartridges. One flare ignited and it was determined static electricity had ignited it. It was the first time on record.
Static electricity is still very much a mystery that Tesla thought could power the world for free.
I don't know what fired the cartridge in question, but until a definite cause is determined it is not prudent to dismiss a possible cause just because you've never seen it happen before. I have.
The primer shows signs of an overpressure, so it's not a routine firing, accident or otherwise.
I totally agree aside the underwear.It would take a lot more than that to get me to a point of over excitement. I still cannot see how it went off just picking it up. Drove 550 mile rd trip today thinking about the gun. Screw the gun I am selling it. Not taking any risk, I have another SR 1911 Ruger in the computer cabinet. The ammo manufacturer will get notice of what happened. They probably want to see the casing or want it mailed to brush the incident under the rug. Just the fact the gun went off and could have hurt someone is enough for me. The brass doesn't lie.. no primer strike.
quote:Originally posted by fugawe
Have you removed the primer? Maybe a misshapen anvil, or two anvils, stacked?
I want to leave the casing alone. If I pull the primer the manufacturer can deny anything is wrong and I made this all up. I could not tell if it was an overcharged rd.. No clue, the noise itself in the cab was real loud. Surprised it didn't break any windows. Thanks everyone for the knowledge.
My vote is that the primer cup was punched out of material that was too thin. Random thin spot in the material. Probably the proverbial one-in-a-million.
An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it.
I re examined other casings compared to it of the same ammo. Primer did not back out of the casing on any of them. Just an abnormal buildup in the center with no primer mark in the one in the truck. I looked at the boxes I have left. Made in Brazil and imported. Also about a zillion disclosures about hand loaded ammo. I don't think it will be worth the time to even call the company in the USA. It was +P ammo and hot stuff but factory made. No telling what caused it but it sure as wasn't me pulling the trigger. Taking my seat covers out of the truck in case it was static electricity, shooting up all the Magtech ammo I have and trust me never buying anymore in any caliber. I just wonder why thy have a V etched in the face of the primers. Might mean V Very careful .
quote:Originally posted by bpost
quote:Originally posted by select-fire
I have played out exactly the sequence of what happened. I got up in the truck, opened the console, picked up my leather wallet and comb that was on top of the gun. Put the wallet in my rear pocket and combed my hair. Put the comb in my back pocket. Picked up the gun with my right hand and moved it from the console to approx the angle of the glove box and it discharged into the lower part of the box. It was not in position to look down sights but sideways like a gang banger would shoot. Nothing was bumped and I had a light grip on it, not a death grip. gun almost jumped out of my hand after going off. I do have a problem. I shot the gun two days ago and ran some ball ammo thru it. When I reloaded the gun with the magtech guardian gold, I installed the mag and hand charged the round. IF that primer was out too far , it should have went off when I charged it. The spot in the center of the primer looks like it is welded to the primer. I did clean my truck two days ago and installed seat covers over the leather seats. They have been on the truck before with no issue. IF this firearm went off because I combed my hair and put my wallet in the back pocket while in the drivers seat because of static electricity. Never heard of that before and is it possible to ignite a primer. NO primer indentation at all, looks like it is welded together. I took the gun out and shot it numerous times no faults.... If the gun is faulty I will cut it up in little pieces.
your pics are horrid but a raised center REVERSED firing pin indentation shows the firing pin was retraced and did not fire the gun. Chamber pressure extruded the primer cup into the firing pin hole. It seems like a faulty primer caused the discharge. The ammo company owes you a bit of body work and a new pair of underwear.
a 1911 firing pin when fired retracts, it does not have to be retracted to cause that, in the millisecond it takes to fire a lot happens
firing pin hits primer, that area becomes instantly weaker, over pressure can cause that to go into the firing pin hole as the spring retracts the firing pin
as stated i have seen it, send a few hundred thousand rounds down range you see allot, not just with your own gun but all those you meet at the range, when something like this happens it gets passed around the ranges at lightning speed
edit: i have personally had a beard hair fall into my press and put a crease on every primer i seated, if it happened as the man stated the primer may have had a burr on it, and just the right movement of the gun set it off, i have seen primers that had a piece of brass on it like a drip of solder
i rub my thumbnail over every single round, i check for seating and burs
And another gun/ammo bashing myth is born.
Can't be anything I did, it's the gun! No wait, the ammo coincidentally is made in Brazil, that must be the problem. No wait, the gun AND the ammo are made in Brazil, since I wasn't born there,never been there, and know nothing about it except the rumors I heard from a interweb site...........
quote:Originally posted by gunnut505
And another gun/ammo bashing myth is born.
Can't be anything I did, it's the gun! No wait, the ammo coincidentally is made in Brazil, that must be the problem. No wait, the gun AND the ammo are made in Brazil, since I wasn't born there,never been there, and know nothing about it except the rumors I heard from a interweb site...........
I knew some NUT would come out of the woodwork . Its the web. Thanks for 99% of y'all.
quote:Originally posted by select-fire
I re examined other casings compared to it of the same ammo. Primer did not back out of the casing on any of them. Just an abnormal buildup in the center with no primer mark in the one in the truck. I looked at the boxes I have left. Made in Brazil and imported. Also about a zillion disclosures about hand loaded ammo. I don't think it will be worth the time to even call the company in the USA. It was +P ammo and hot stuff but factory made. No telling what caused it but it sure as wasn't me pulling the trigger. Taking my seat covers out of the truck in case it was static electricity, shooting up all the Magtech ammo I have and trust me never buying anymore in any caliber. I just wonder why thy have a V etched in the face of the primers. Might mean V Very careful .
While it would be foolish to totally rule anything out, static electricity would be almost impossible. Contrary to what has been stated previously, static electricity is very well understood. It is the creation of a voltage difference across an insulator. If the difference becomes great enough, electrons on the negative side will 'jump the gap' and create a spark. I do not see how you get a spark in either the primer or the shell casing, as the brass shell of both will conduct virtually any charge around the volatile contents of the primer and the powder charge.
Obviously anything is possible, but it is pretty safe to say that a static charge did not cause the problem. Have you contacted either Taurus or Magtech? A responsible manufacturer would want to know about such things, I would think, and they may be able to offer an explanation based upon past experience.
Freedom and a submissive populace cannot co-exist.
quote:Originally posted by Don McManus
quote:Originally posted by select-fire
I re examined other casings compared to it of the same ammo. Primer did not back out of the casing on any of them. Just an abnormal buildup in the center with no primer mark in the one in the truck. I looked at the boxes I have left. Made in Brazil and imported. Also about a zillion disclosures about hand loaded ammo. I don't think it will be worth the time to even call the company in the USA. It was +P ammo and hot stuff but factory made. No telling what caused it but it sure as wasn't me pulling the trigger. Taking my seat covers out of the truck in case it was static electricity, shooting up all the Magtech ammo I have and trust me never buying anymore in any caliber. I just wonder why thy have a V etched in the face of the primers. Might mean V Very careful .
While it would be foolish to totally rule anything out, static electricity would be almost impossible. Contrary to what has been stated previously, static electricity is very well understood. It is the creation of a voltage difference across an insulator. If the difference becomes great enough, electrons on the negative side will 'jump the gap' and create a spark. I do not see how you get a spark in either the primer or the shell casing, as the brass shell of both will conduct virtually any charge around the volatile contents of the primer and the powder charge.
Obviously anything is possible, but it is pretty safe to say that a static charge did not cause the problem. Have you contacted either Taurus or Magtech? A responsible manufacturer would want to know about such things, I would think, and they may be able to offer an explanation based upon past experience.
If static electricity is so well understood, why has it not been harnessed commercially and put to productive use? As alluded to before, you can use something like AC and DC electricity without actually understanding it. It was done for decades.
If static electricity is so well understood, why has it not been harnessed commercially and put to productive use? As alluded to before, you can use something like AC and DC electricity without actually understanding it. It was done for decades.
Van de Graaff generator understands it very well, and it takes more energy to make it than it produces
quote:Originally posted by p3skyking
quote:Originally posted by Don McManus
quote:Originally posted by select-fire
I re examined other casings compared to it of the same ammo. Primer did not back out of the casing on any of them. Just an abnormal buildup in the center with no primer mark in the one in the truck. I looked at the boxes I have left. Made in Brazil and imported. Also about a zillion disclosures about hand loaded ammo. I don't think it will be worth the time to even call the company in the USA. It was +P ammo and hot stuff but factory made. No telling what caused it but it sure as wasn't me pulling the trigger. Taking my seat covers out of the truck in case it was static electricity, shooting up all the Magtech ammo I have and trust me never buying anymore in any caliber. I just wonder why thy have a V etched in the face of the primers. Might mean V Very careful .
While it would be foolish to totally rule anything out, static electricity would be almost impossible. Contrary to what has been stated previously, static electricity is very well understood. It is the creation of a voltage difference across an insulator. If the difference becomes great enough, electrons on the negative side will 'jump the gap' and create a spark. I do not see how you get a spark in either the primer or the shell casing, as the brass shell of both will conduct virtually any charge around the volatile contents of the primer and the powder charge.
Obviously anything is possible, but it is pretty safe to say that a static charge did not cause the problem. Have you contacted either Taurus or Magtech? A responsible manufacturer would want to know about such things, I would think, and they may be able to offer an explanation based upon past experience.
If static electricity is so well understood, why has it not been harnessed commercially and put to productive use? As alluded to before, you can use something like AC and DC electricity without actually understanding it. It was done for decades.
It is put to use everyday. Ever hear of a capacitor?
No sure what the economic benefits would be to harnessing it commercially. One possibility would be to attempt to harness lightening strikes and store the energy, but one would think the cost of the infrastructure would never be repaid.
As 1911A1 fan states, the mechanical generation of static electricity is much less efficient than our current generation techniques.
Freedom and a submissive populace cannot co-exist.
I measured the overall length of the shell casing. .890 with one out of the same mag. .896 with one in truck.. build up on where primer would normally strike.
I also just measured the thickness of the metal behind the glove box. It is 14 gauge or .075 thick. Put a dent in the rear of it after traveling thru the plastic glove box. Did not go thru the metal.
quote:Originally posted by select-fire
I also just measured the thickness of the metal behind the glove box. It is 14 gauge or .075 thick. Put a dent in the rear of it after traveling thru the plastic glove box. Did not go thru the metal.
because its not supposed to , it is a 185 +p HP designed for humans not trucks
quote:Originally posted by 1911a1-fan
quote:Originally posted by select-fire
I also just measured the thickness of the metal behind the glove box. It is 14 gauge or .075 thick. Put a dent in the rear of it after traveling thru the plastic glove box. Did not go thru the metal.
because its not supposed to , it is a 185 +p HP designed for humans not trucks
I shot a well bladder tank a while back with a .45 and it would not penetrate it. Made a big dent but didn't go thru the first side. Even reconsidering the .45 at all. Don't think it would have made a difference for me if I had 230 ball ammo in the gun. Took this off another forum..
My friend and I shot a 1/16" stainless steel sheet today. We used .45ACP ball ammo (Remington UMC, Taurus HexHead copper JHPs), I used my S&W 66 3" barrel (Winchester .38 130gr. FMJ, .38+p 125gr., and Speer 158 gr. gold dot .357magnum). We shot it from about 50ft. away
Here are the results:
.45 UMC: no penetration
.45 taurus JHP: no penetration
.38 FMJ: no penetration
.38+P 125JHP: 1 out of 10 penetrated, because it hit a weakened spot
.357 158JHP: every shot penetrated
This is it: 1/16" of crap sheet steel stopped a 230gr. .45 every time! I don't know if that is good for the steel, bad for the .45, or both, but it surprised me. A little steel goes a long way. The bullets that didn't penetrate fell right to the ground. I was not surprised that the .38s didn't penetrate, and I knew that the .357s would penetrate. It was very enlightening...
About the only thing I could ever think that would do that is that either the primer pocket was not cut out deep enough or there was something stuck in between the primer and the case making it to where it wouldn't seat to the proper depth. Now I know you said that you jacked that cartridge in long before it went off,but but it could've been a delay fire.if the primer is partially pierced c if the primer is partially pierced,it wouldn't take much of a bump or shake to finish piercing it, even an inconceivable pump or shake could do it. That's what I would lay my money on as to what happened m.
By the way don't let these people that are telling you that you pulled the trigger but I have cock gun that caused it. There's no way that the firing pin ever touch that primer. It is clearly evident even with the port forward to grab that that is not a concave indentation it's convex . And anybody that is ever seen a spent cartridge could tell you that. even a five-year-old. So if anybody tells you that you pulled the trigger, or that the hammer dropped from half cock position has never even seen a spare cartridge let alone a firearm. The evidence contradicts their claims
You can bet I will be paying attention to primers and running my thumb across them to see if they are seated or look abnormal. Going to sell both .45's. The PT1911 and the SR1911 Ruger with the laser sight. I want a gun that will penetrate and expand with ammo. Gel tests are nice. They are not metal. Ball ammo should shoot hard. My 9mm and .40 both shot thru the well bladder tank. The .45 wouldn't go thru one side. Maybe that was a sign to carry something else.
quote:Originally posted by TrinityScrimshaw
When I read your second post I saw where you said "Taurus 1911 Al with factory goodies."
Being a 1911 Snob, I basically stopped reading right there, and determined that your problem was the brand name...[;)]
Sounds like you are pretty much convinced what caused the discharge, but if I were you I would put a lot of faith in anything Perry Shooter or 1911a1-fan says about your problem.
quote:Originally posted by jimdeere
Pfft. Everyone knows a .45 bullet will go through an engine block.
Must have been a short powder charge.
I'd just chalk this one up to "chit happens".
Of course!
That's why our military guys often use 50bmg on engine blocks!....or 22lr...small and fast always wins!
Comments
Being a 1911 Snob, I basically stopped reading right there, and determined that your problem was the brand name...[;)]
Sounds like you are pretty much convinced what caused the discharge, but if I were you I would put a lot of faith in anything Perry Shooter or 1911a1-fan says about your problem.
Trinity +++
I have seen primers "back out" on fired ammo, but I don't recall ever seeing a primer extrude into the firing pin hole. It seems to me if the firing pin struck the primer, there should be a normal looking firing pin indent in the primer. My limited knowledge aside, and unless I am missing something, this would rule out a negligent discharge. As has been stated, in a series 80 system, a lot of things have to happen for a firing pin to strike the primer. Somewhere there has to be an explanation.
ever hear of primer blanking ?
Is it perfectly rounded, or is there a mark in the middle of the "weld"?
Since it fired & ejected the round, my money is on a firing pin strike that got pushed back out somehow.
Try to duplicate the half-cocked situation with a primed, but not loaded round. Bump the slide, jiggle the grip safety, shuffle your butt around on the seat covers, comb your hair, etc. and see if it goes off.
If that doesn't work, seat a primer a tad high & try again.
Unless Taurus is secretly building guns with extra firing pins, super strong springs, or dysfunctional grip safeties; my money is on operator error.
Brad Steele
quote:Originally posted by lkannes
I have seen primers "back out" on fired ammo, but I don't recall ever seeing a primer extrude into the firing pin hole. It seems to me if the firing pin struck the primer, there should be a normal looking firing pin indent in the primer. My limited knowledge aside, and unless I am missing something, this would rule out a negligent discharge. As has been stated, in a series 80 system, a lot of things have to happen for a firing pin to strike the primer. Somewhere there has to be an explanation.
ever hear of primer blanking ?
Your previous post about static electricity.. I don't believe it for a moment. If that were the case it would have went off when I touched it in the console. Weld location is exact to where primer would strike. The pic you posted is similar but worse. Not quite that high of a raise in the primer. But damn close.
I have played out exactly the sequence of what happened. I got up in the truck, opened the console, picked up my leather wallet and comb that was on top of the gun. Put the wallet in my rear pocket and combed my hair. Put the comb in my back pocket. Picked up the gun with my right hand and moved it from the console to approx the angle of the glove box and it discharged into the lower part of the box. It was not in position to look down sights but sideways like a gang banger would shoot. Nothing was bumped and I had a light grip on it, not a death grip. gun almost jumped out of my hand after going off. I do have a problem. I shot the gun two days ago and ran some ball ammo thru it. When I reloaded the gun with the magtech guardian gold, I installed the mag and hand charged the round. IF that primer was out too far , it should have went off when I charged it. The spot in the center of the primer looks like it is welded to the primer. I did clean my truck two days ago and installed seat covers over the leather seats. They have been on the truck before with no issue. IF this firearm went off because I combed my hair and put my wallet in the back pocket while in the drivers seat because of static electricity. Never heard of that before and is it possible to ignite a primer. NO primer indentation at all, looks like it is welded together. I took the gun out and shot it numerous times no faults.... If the gun is faulty I will cut it up in little pieces.
your pics are horrid but a raised center REVERSED firing pin indentation shows the firing pin was retraced and did not fire the gun. Chamber pressure extruded the primer cup into the firing pin hole. It seems like a faulty primer caused the discharge. The ammo company owes you a bit of body work and a new pair of underwear.
quote:Originally posted by 1911a1-fan
quote:Originally posted by lkannes
I have seen primers "back out" on fired ammo, but I don't recall ever seeing a primer extrude into the firing pin hole. It seems to me if the firing pin struck the primer, there should be a normal looking firing pin indent in the primer. My limited knowledge aside, and unless I am missing something, this would rule out a negligent discharge. As has been stated, in a series 80 system, a lot of things have to happen for a firing pin to strike the primer. Somewhere there has to be an explanation.
ever hear of primer blanking ?
Your previous post about static electricity.. I don't believe it for a moment. If that were the case it would have went off when I touched it in the console. Weld location is exact to where primer would strike. The pic you posted is similar but worse. Not quite that high of a raise in the primer. But damn close.
Scientist don't even know what static electricity is. They played with electricity for fifty years before they were able to describe what it was.
There was an incident about 30 years or so ago where a flyer was carrying loose MK79 pencil flares in the foot pocket of his flight suit. The flares have mechanical primers similar to cartridges. One flare ignited and it was determined static electricity had ignited it. It was the first time on record.
Static electricity is still very much a mystery that Tesla thought could power the world for free.
I don't know what fired the cartridge in question, but until a definite cause is determined it is not prudent to dismiss a possible cause just because you've never seen it happen before. I have.
The primer shows signs of an overpressure, so it's not a routine firing, accident or otherwise.
Have you removed the primer? Maybe a misshapen anvil, or two anvils, stacked?
I want to leave the casing alone. If I pull the primer the manufacturer can deny anything is wrong and I made this all up. I could not tell if it was an overcharged rd.. No clue, the noise itself in the cab was real loud. Surprised it didn't break any windows. Thanks everyone for the knowledge.
quote:Originally posted by select-fire
I have played out exactly the sequence of what happened. I got up in the truck, opened the console, picked up my leather wallet and comb that was on top of the gun. Put the wallet in my rear pocket and combed my hair. Put the comb in my back pocket. Picked up the gun with my right hand and moved it from the console to approx the angle of the glove box and it discharged into the lower part of the box. It was not in position to look down sights but sideways like a gang banger would shoot. Nothing was bumped and I had a light grip on it, not a death grip. gun almost jumped out of my hand after going off. I do have a problem. I shot the gun two days ago and ran some ball ammo thru it. When I reloaded the gun with the magtech guardian gold, I installed the mag and hand charged the round. IF that primer was out too far , it should have went off when I charged it. The spot in the center of the primer looks like it is welded to the primer. I did clean my truck two days ago and installed seat covers over the leather seats. They have been on the truck before with no issue. IF this firearm went off because I combed my hair and put my wallet in the back pocket while in the drivers seat because of static electricity. Never heard of that before and is it possible to ignite a primer. NO primer indentation at all, looks like it is welded together. I took the gun out and shot it numerous times no faults.... If the gun is faulty I will cut it up in little pieces.
your pics are horrid but a raised center REVERSED firing pin indentation shows the firing pin was retraced and did not fire the gun. Chamber pressure extruded the primer cup into the firing pin hole. It seems like a faulty primer caused the discharge. The ammo company owes you a bit of body work and a new pair of underwear.
a 1911 firing pin when fired retracts, it does not have to be retracted to cause that, in the millisecond it takes to fire a lot happens
firing pin hits primer, that area becomes instantly weaker, over pressure can cause that to go into the firing pin hole as the spring retracts the firing pin
as stated i have seen it, send a few hundred thousand rounds down range you see allot, not just with your own gun but all those you meet at the range, when something like this happens it gets passed around the ranges at lightning speed
edit: i have personally had a beard hair fall into my press and put a crease on every primer i seated, if it happened as the man stated the primer may have had a burr on it, and just the right movement of the gun set it off, i have seen primers that had a piece of brass on it like a drip of solder
i rub my thumbnail over every single round, i check for seating and burs
Can't be anything I did, it's the gun! No wait, the ammo coincidentally is made in Brazil, that must be the problem. No wait, the gun AND the ammo are made in Brazil, since I wasn't born there,never been there, and know nothing about it except the rumors I heard from a interweb site...........
And another gun/ammo bashing myth is born.
Can't be anything I did, it's the gun! No wait, the ammo coincidentally is made in Brazil, that must be the problem. No wait, the gun AND the ammo are made in Brazil, since I wasn't born there,never been there, and know nothing about it except the rumors I heard from a interweb site...........
I knew some NUT would come out of the woodwork . Its the web. Thanks for 99% of y'all.
I re examined other casings compared to it of the same ammo. Primer did not back out of the casing on any of them. Just an abnormal buildup in the center with no primer mark in the one in the truck. I looked at the boxes I have left. Made in Brazil and imported. Also about a zillion disclosures about hand loaded ammo. I don't think it will be worth the time to even call the company in the USA. It was +P ammo and hot stuff but factory made. No telling what caused it but it sure as wasn't me pulling the trigger. Taking my seat covers out of the truck in case it was static electricity, shooting up all the Magtech ammo I have and trust me never buying anymore in any caliber. I just wonder why thy have a V etched in the face of the primers. Might mean V Very careful .
While it would be foolish to totally rule anything out, static electricity would be almost impossible. Contrary to what has been stated previously, static electricity is very well understood. It is the creation of a voltage difference across an insulator. If the difference becomes great enough, electrons on the negative side will 'jump the gap' and create a spark. I do not see how you get a spark in either the primer or the shell casing, as the brass shell of both will conduct virtually any charge around the volatile contents of the primer and the powder charge.
Obviously anything is possible, but it is pretty safe to say that a static charge did not cause the problem. Have you contacted either Taurus or Magtech? A responsible manufacturer would want to know about such things, I would think, and they may be able to offer an explanation based upon past experience.
Brad Steele
quote:Originally posted by select-fire
I re examined other casings compared to it of the same ammo. Primer did not back out of the casing on any of them. Just an abnormal buildup in the center with no primer mark in the one in the truck. I looked at the boxes I have left. Made in Brazil and imported. Also about a zillion disclosures about hand loaded ammo. I don't think it will be worth the time to even call the company in the USA. It was +P ammo and hot stuff but factory made. No telling what caused it but it sure as wasn't me pulling the trigger. Taking my seat covers out of the truck in case it was static electricity, shooting up all the Magtech ammo I have and trust me never buying anymore in any caliber. I just wonder why thy have a V etched in the face of the primers. Might mean V Very careful .
While it would be foolish to totally rule anything out, static electricity would be almost impossible. Contrary to what has been stated previously, static electricity is very well understood. It is the creation of a voltage difference across an insulator. If the difference becomes great enough, electrons on the negative side will 'jump the gap' and create a spark. I do not see how you get a spark in either the primer or the shell casing, as the brass shell of both will conduct virtually any charge around the volatile contents of the primer and the powder charge.
Obviously anything is possible, but it is pretty safe to say that a static charge did not cause the problem. Have you contacted either Taurus or Magtech? A responsible manufacturer would want to know about such things, I would think, and they may be able to offer an explanation based upon past experience.
If static electricity is so well understood, why has it not been harnessed commercially and put to productive use? As alluded to before, you can use something like AC and DC electricity without actually understanding it. It was done for decades.
If static electricity is so well understood, why has it not been harnessed commercially and put to productive use? As alluded to before, you can use something like AC and DC electricity without actually understanding it. It was done for decades.
Van de Graaff generator understands it very well, and it takes more energy to make it than it produces
quote:Originally posted by Don McManus
quote:Originally posted by select-fire
I re examined other casings compared to it of the same ammo. Primer did not back out of the casing on any of them. Just an abnormal buildup in the center with no primer mark in the one in the truck. I looked at the boxes I have left. Made in Brazil and imported. Also about a zillion disclosures about hand loaded ammo. I don't think it will be worth the time to even call the company in the USA. It was +P ammo and hot stuff but factory made. No telling what caused it but it sure as wasn't me pulling the trigger. Taking my seat covers out of the truck in case it was static electricity, shooting up all the Magtech ammo I have and trust me never buying anymore in any caliber. I just wonder why thy have a V etched in the face of the primers. Might mean V Very careful .
While it would be foolish to totally rule anything out, static electricity would be almost impossible. Contrary to what has been stated previously, static electricity is very well understood. It is the creation of a voltage difference across an insulator. If the difference becomes great enough, electrons on the negative side will 'jump the gap' and create a spark. I do not see how you get a spark in either the primer or the shell casing, as the brass shell of both will conduct virtually any charge around the volatile contents of the primer and the powder charge.
Obviously anything is possible, but it is pretty safe to say that a static charge did not cause the problem. Have you contacted either Taurus or Magtech? A responsible manufacturer would want to know about such things, I would think, and they may be able to offer an explanation based upon past experience.
If static electricity is so well understood, why has it not been harnessed commercially and put to productive use? As alluded to before, you can use something like AC and DC electricity without actually understanding it. It was done for decades.
It is put to use everyday. Ever hear of a capacitor?
No sure what the economic benefits would be to harnessing it commercially. One possibility would be to attempt to harness lightening strikes and store the energy, but one would think the cost of the infrastructure would never be repaid.
As 1911A1 fan states, the mechanical generation of static electricity is much less efficient than our current generation techniques.
Brad Steele
I also just measured the thickness of the metal behind the glove box. It is 14 gauge or .075 thick. Put a dent in the rear of it after traveling thru the plastic glove box. Did not go thru the metal.
because its not supposed to , it is a 185 +p HP designed for humans not trucks
quote:Originally posted by select-fire
I also just measured the thickness of the metal behind the glove box. It is 14 gauge or .075 thick. Put a dent in the rear of it after traveling thru the plastic glove box. Did not go thru the metal.
because its not supposed to , it is a 185 +p HP designed for humans not trucks
I shot a well bladder tank a while back with a .45 and it would not penetrate it. Made a big dent but didn't go thru the first side. Even reconsidering the .45 at all. Don't think it would have made a difference for me if I had 230 ball ammo in the gun. Took this off another forum..
My friend and I shot a 1/16" stainless steel sheet today. We used .45ACP ball ammo (Remington UMC, Taurus HexHead copper JHPs), I used my S&W 66 3" barrel (Winchester .38 130gr. FMJ, .38+p 125gr., and Speer 158 gr. gold dot .357magnum). We shot it from about 50ft. away
Here are the results:
.45 UMC: no penetration
.45 taurus JHP: no penetration
.38 FMJ: no penetration
.38+P 125JHP: 1 out of 10 penetrated, because it hit a weakened spot
.357 158JHP: every shot penetrated
This is it: 1/16" of crap sheet steel stopped a 230gr. .45 every time! I don't know if that is good for the steel, bad for the .45, or both, but it surprised me. A little steel goes a long way. The bullets that didn't penetrate fell right to the ground. I was not surprised that the .38s didn't penetrate, and I knew that the .357s would penetrate. It was very enlightening...
By the way don't let these people that are telling you that you pulled the trigger but I have cock gun that caused it. There's no way that the firing pin ever touch that primer. It is clearly evident even with the port forward to grab that that is not a concave indentation it's convex . And anybody that is ever seen a spent cartridge could tell you that. even a five-year-old. So if anybody tells you that you pulled the trigger, or that the hammer dropped from half cock position has never even seen a spare cartridge let alone a firearm. The evidence contradicts their claims
take your 9mm and .40 and shoot your truck again for an honest comparison [:D]
When I read your second post I saw where you said "Taurus 1911 Al with factory goodies."
Being a 1911 Snob, I basically stopped reading right there, and determined that your problem was the brand name...[;)]
Sounds like you are pretty much convinced what caused the discharge, but if I were you I would put a lot of faith in anything Perry Shooter or 1911a1-fan says about your problem.
Trinity +++
This!
Must have been a short powder charge.
I'd just chalk this one up to "chit happens".
Pfft. Everyone knows a .45 bullet will go through an engine block.
Must have been a short powder charge.
I'd just chalk this one up to "chit happens".
Of course!
That's why our military guys often use 50bmg on engine blocks!....or 22lr...small and fast always wins!