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Illegals.
jerrywh818
Member Posts: 2,573 ✭✭✭✭✭
Most of us Americans do not understand illegals at all because we do not know how they lived before they came here. I knew at least a 1000 of them and probably closer to 3000.
One person in particular made an impression on me. His name was Jesus Jesus Jaspar. He and his family were from Guatemala. He was a farm worker. He got a car because without the car it was impossible for him to even get anything to eat unless he stole it. He was a Christian and extremely honest. After some time the police gave him a ticket for no license or insurance. He could not get a license because it was against the law therefore he could not get insurance. He came to me for help. The ticket was for $1000.00. I asked him how he could ever pay the ticket. He replied I can't. $1000.00 to him was like $100.000 to one of us. I asked him if he was afraid the police would put him in jail and he said NO. That puzzled me so I asked him why not. He replied "you don't have jails in this country"
Again I was puzzled. I asked, what do you mean? He replied, When we were in Guatemala we lived in a cave in the jungle. There were outlaw gangs everywhere who were antigovernment. Every time they found us they took everything we had, food and all. I asked, why didn't you report them to the government? He replied the government did the same thing as the gangs. I asked him, how did you escape from there. He said a bunch of them stole a bus and ran the border, and then they made their way to America.
He owed me money for the car. I told him not to worry about the money but he could pay if and when he ever could.
He told me where he and his family were living. The next day I went there. There were about 12 or 15 people living in one room with one bathroom and nothing to eat but a couple of tomatoes and some cheese and tortillas, about enough for three people. When I saw that I gave them money for food and left. That man eventually paid me every Penney he owed.
How many of you would send that family back to Guatemala?? I would not want to face a living god for that.
This was not an isolated incident. I knew a lot of them like this from different countries.
One person in particular made an impression on me. His name was Jesus Jesus Jaspar. He and his family were from Guatemala. He was a farm worker. He got a car because without the car it was impossible for him to even get anything to eat unless he stole it. He was a Christian and extremely honest. After some time the police gave him a ticket for no license or insurance. He could not get a license because it was against the law therefore he could not get insurance. He came to me for help. The ticket was for $1000.00. I asked him how he could ever pay the ticket. He replied I can't. $1000.00 to him was like $100.000 to one of us. I asked him if he was afraid the police would put him in jail and he said NO. That puzzled me so I asked him why not. He replied "you don't have jails in this country"
Again I was puzzled. I asked, what do you mean? He replied, When we were in Guatemala we lived in a cave in the jungle. There were outlaw gangs everywhere who were antigovernment. Every time they found us they took everything we had, food and all. I asked, why didn't you report them to the government? He replied the government did the same thing as the gangs. I asked him, how did you escape from there. He said a bunch of them stole a bus and ran the border, and then they made their way to America.
He owed me money for the car. I told him not to worry about the money but he could pay if and when he ever could.
He told me where he and his family were living. The next day I went there. There were about 12 or 15 people living in one room with one bathroom and nothing to eat but a couple of tomatoes and some cheese and tortillas, about enough for three people. When I saw that I gave them money for food and left. That man eventually paid me every Penney he owed.
How many of you would send that family back to Guatemala?? I would not want to face a living god for that.
This was not an isolated incident. I knew a lot of them like this from different countries.
Comments
That is what must be decided.
Congress is at fault 100% for this situation.
This country is not Noah's ark, it's more like the Titanic and she's going down with the weight of all the illegal aliens and welfare slugs.
Capt. Jack Sparrow.
We can not take every person with a bad story to tell, into this country. Nor should we be expected to.
Yes it is, with help from the U.S. Chamber of Commerce. The Republicans want cheap labor and the Democrats want succeeding generations of Democrats beating the old Liberal drum. The people living in these countries, wanting to emigrate LEGALLY here have no bed of roses either. Some have been trying for years to get Visas to come here and work. Not many succeed. If you're a doctor or engineer or a computer specialist, maybe. If you're an unskilled worker, rarely. If you're a single female, forget it.
Basically, there is no way that this country can absorb the world's poor to the extent that it would actually make a difference.
The poorest countries are those that have refused to accept birth control pills & equipment from us.
Neal
All to many of us forgot that we took a lot of this country from Mexico by force of arms. Most of you people are correct when you say our so called leaders created this problem. We should be merciful to some but they have allowed millions to enter no matter who or where they came from just for votes and to subvert us working people and hold down wages. Most of us have become so resentful that we have lost all empathy for anybody. Perhaps that was part of their agenda.
Create chaos as Saul Alinski suggested. We are caught in the middle but we cannot allow them to destroy our ethics and beliefs.
This is supposed to be a Christian nation or it was. I am not in favor of unlimited illegal immigration but there must be some mercy applied with the law or else our profession of belief in Christ is nothing but a total phony. If any of you profess to believe you better go read Luke chapter 6. There is a price for being a Christian and part of that price is mercy for others. At present we have political asylum. That is good. How many people profess to be Christians until it cost them something? Somehow many Americans have been convinced by politicians and their talking heads that being a total hard * is admirable. Firm but fair should be our objective. Trump has said that all must go but some can come back. Sounds good but he has no idea what some of these people have come from. He will temper his stance very soon if he hasn't yet because some of these people cannot go back. Back to hell is their option.
All to many of us forgot that we took a lot of this country from Mexico by force of arms. Most of you people are correct when you say our so called leaders created this problem. We should be merciful to some but they have allowed millions to enter no matter who or where they came from just for votes and to subvert us working people and hold down wages. Most of us have become so resentful that we have lost all empathy for anybody. Perhaps that was part of their agenda.
Create chaos as Saul Alinski suggested. We are caught in the middle but we cannot allow them to destroy our ethics and beliefs.
BS!
A nation is not a nation without borders and its own culture. A nation without laws, and adherence to said laws is existing under anarchy.
We can not take every person with a bad story to tell, into this country. Nor should we be expected to.
Nothing else needs to be said. It's not like we don't care about this man, and his family as human beings, but we need to enforce our laws and boarders. Why should we be saddled with people from another country, to feed and take care of, when we can't even take care of our own homeless and vets. While my heart feels one way, my conscience and head say,Sorry guy, time to go home.
This is supposed to be a Christian nation or it was. I am not in favor of unlimited illegal immigration but there must be some mercy applied with the law or else our profession of belief in Christ is nothing but a total phony. If any of you profess to believe you better go read Luke chapter 6. There is a price for being a Christian and part of that price is mercy for others. At present we have political asylum. That is good. How many people profess to be Christians until it cost them something? Somehow many Americans have been convinced by politicians and their talking heads that being a total hard * is admirable. Firm but fair should be our objective. Trump has said that all must go but some can come back. Sounds good but he has no idea what some of these people have come from. He will temper his stance very soon if he hasn't yet because some of these people cannot go back. Back to hell is their option.
All to many of us forgot that we took a lot of this country from Mexico by force of arms. Most of you people are correct when you say our so called leaders created this problem. We should be merciful to some but they have allowed millions to enter no matter who or where they came from just for votes and to subvert us working people and hold down wages. Most of us have become so resentful that we have lost all empathy for anybody. Perhaps that was part of their agenda.
Create chaos as Saul Alinski suggested. We are caught in the middle but we cannot allow them to destroy our ethics and beliefs.
A lot of people do not like to hear this. But we are not a Christian Nation and never have been. We are a nation with a lot of Christians, but we are not governed by a religion or a church. Our system was purposely set up to avoid this, and for good reasons.
"The government of the United States is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion" GEORGE WASHINGTON, Treaty of Tripoli 1796
We have plenty of means for people to migrate and stay in this country. We can't baby sit all the poor of the world. I understand there are a lot of good people that are desperate that come here. Yes, I have empathy for them, sometimes sympathy. But I have the future generations of my own family to consider also. I would like for them to not have to live in a cave and risk their lives daily just to eat.
We were founded on Christian principals. Originally the bible was taught in public schools. The constitution says "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof". The congress has never made a law establishing a religion but our Government had prohibited the free exercise thereof and so far has gotten away with it. Anybody who tells you Jefferson was a atheist is a liar or ignorant. Nobody ever said we were governed by religion nor did anybody suggest it since King George the 3rd. The colonies were partially governed by religion. That is why we have the religion clause.
Probably 80% of the entire WORLD lives like crap, but that isn't our problem. We can't save everyone, nor should we even try.
I own property four miles north of the Mexican border, and I can tell you a million sob stories of my own!
From drug runners crossing my property, to cut fences, to constant trash and filth, plus a ton of other problems.
What about MY sob stories?
Merc
quote:Originally posted by bpost
Are we a nation of Laws or a nation of sob stories?
That is what must be decided.
Congress is at fault 100% for this situation.
Matthew 25:35-40
To some it will mean something, to others it will not.
And they will not see the judgement coming.
Is this the new motto for the border fence and the 200 yard no mans land?
MERCURY. I'm for the wall.
Mogley98
They don't have to live in my yard. There are places here where you can't see a house for 50 miles or more.
My family comes first.
- No more catch and release
- If they commit a crime that is a felony or a violent misdemeanor do the time and then get deported
- Actually control the border to stop the influx
- Anyone else may apply to be a temporary guest worker. If you have not declared yourself and been issued a temporary permit within a year, you get deported.
What I am saying is not all of them should be thrown out. Are you people saying all of them should go? I am aware of all the problems that have been stated here. I have had some of them myself. The bad ones have to go. If they all have to go we better get started because there are between 14,000,000 and 30,000,000 of them. In the meantime we will be fighting a revolution. It Ain't gonna happen folks. Get Real. Some of them are more patriotic than we are. The worst part is the Drugs. The drugs have to be stopped no matter what.
MERCURY. I'm for the wall.
You do know they will never send obama back to Kenya where he was born right?
ToBig
Nobody I know of ever proposed bringing them here. It is amazing how far off some of you can get from the subject at hand. Can't you read?
Practically speaking, they aren't all ever going back. There are simply too many and they provide too much cheap labor for the economy to continue chugging along without them. But I think it is pretty clear that reforms are needed:
- No more catch and release
- If they commit a crime that is a felony or a violent misdemeanor do the time and then get deported
- Actually control the border to stop the influx
- Anyone else may apply to be a temporary guest worker. If you have not declared yourself and been issued a temporary permit within a year, you get deported.
Don't kid yourself, it is not cheap labor. The cost to taxpayers is tremendous. Since SB1070, the bill that requires the police to enforce the law, in the first year crime dropped 43% car theft dropped 50%, schools enrollment from illegals dropped 23%, other resources dropped for illegals dropped tremendously.
To hire an illegal, you still pay them cash, not into ss or workers comp or other stuff that we all pay.
Illegal labor only helps the one hiring them, and that needs to end to keep business competition fair.
quote:Originally posted by brewer12345
Practically speaking, they aren't all ever going back. There are simply too many and they provide too much cheap labor for the economy to continue chugging along without them. But I think it is pretty clear that reforms are needed:
- No more catch and release
- If they commit a crime that is a felony or a violent misdemeanor do the time and then get deported
- Actually control the border to stop the influx
- Anyone else may apply to be a temporary guest worker. If you have not declared yourself and been issued a temporary permit within a year, you get deported.
Don't kid yourself, it is not cheap labor. The cost to taxpayers is tremendous. Since SB1070, the bill that requires the police to enforce the law, in the first year crime dropped 43% car theft dropped 50%, schools enrollment from illegals dropped 23%, other resources dropped for illegals dropped tremendously.
To hire an illegal, you still pay them cash, not into ss or workers comp or other stuff that we all pay.
Illegal labor only helps the one hiring them, and that needs to end to keep business competition fair.
Absolutely agree that a lot of the costs get dumped on society as a whole rather than the employer. But add 50% to the wages of, say, migrant fruit pickers to account for the social costs. You think we will have US citizens lining up to take those jobs?
5 Billion people live below the poverty level of Mexico so where are you going to put them is the question
I don't think there are 5 billion people in the Western Hemisphere.
This is supposed to be a Christian nation or it was. I am not in favor of unlimited illegal immigration but there must be some mercy applied with the law or else our profession of belief in Christ is nothing but a total phony. If any of you profess to believe you better go read Luke chapter 6. There is a price for being a Christian and part of that price is mercy for others. At present we have political asylum. That is good. How many people profess to be Christians until it cost them something? Somehow many Americans have been convinced by politicians and their talking heads that being a total hard * is admirable. Firm but fair should be our objective. Trump has said that all must go but some can come back. Sounds good but he has no idea what some of these people have come from. He will temper his stance very soon if he hasn't yet because some of these people cannot go back. Back to hell is their option.
All to many of us forgot that we took a lot of this country from Mexico by force of arms. Most of you people are correct when you say our so called leaders created this problem. We should be merciful to some but they have allowed millions to enter no matter who or where they came from just for votes and to subvert us working people and hold down wages. Most of us have become so resentful that we have lost all empathy for anybody. Perhaps that was part of their agenda.
Create chaos as Saul Alinski suggested. We are caught in the middle but we cannot allow them to destroy our ethics and beliefs.
Illegal immigration is definitely a controversial issue in the United States (and some other countries) today. Some argue that the immigration laws are unfair, unjust, and even discriminatory-thus giving individuals justification to immigrate illegally. However, Romans 13:1-7 does not give any permission to violate a law just because it is perceived as unjust. Again, the issue is not the fairness of a law. The only biblical reason to violate a government's law is if that law violates God's Word. When Paul wrote the book of Romans, he was under the authority of the Roman Empire, led by Emperor Nero. Under that reign, there were many laws that were unfair, unjust, and/or blatantly evil. Still, Paul instructed Christians to submit to the government.
Are the immigration laws of the United States unfair or unjust? Some think so, but that is not the issue. All developed countries in the world have immigration laws, some more strict than the USA's, and some less strict, and all have to deal with illegal immigration. There is nothing in the Bible to prohibit a country from having completely open borders or to have completely closed borders. Romans 13:1-7 also gives the government the authority to punish lawbreakers. Whether the punishment is imprisonment, deportation, or even something more severe, it is within the rights of the government to determine.
NRA Lifetime Benefactor Member.
Practically speaking, they aren't all ever going back. There are simply too many and they provide too much cheap labor for the economy to continue chugging along without them. More precisely put, they provide the cheap labor for certain corporations with powerful lobbyists, and society has to bear the costs of the illegals as well as the people they have displaced from the workforce.
They do probably pay taxes in some cases where they can't be paid under the table but even regular citizens are a net debit to the government unless they make a good deal more than the median wage.
quote:Originally posted by mag00
quote:Originally posted by brewer12345
Practically speaking, they aren't all ever going back. There are simply too many and they provide too much cheap labor for the economy to continue chugging along without them. But I think it is pretty clear that reforms are needed:
- No more catch and release
- If they commit a crime that is a felony or a violent misdemeanor do the time and then get deported
- Actually control the border to stop the influx
- Anyone else may apply to be a temporary guest worker. If you have not declared yourself and been issued a temporary permit within a year, you get deported.
Don't kid yourself, it is not cheap labor. The cost to taxpayers is tremendous. Since SB1070, the bill that requires the police to enforce the law, in the first year crime dropped 43% car theft dropped 50%, schools enrollment from illegals dropped 23%, other resources dropped for illegals dropped tremendously.
To hire an illegal, you still pay them cash, not into ss or workers comp or other stuff that we all pay.
Illegal labor only helps the one hiring them, and that needs to end to keep business competition fair.
Absolutely agree that a lot of the costs get dumped on society as a whole rather than the employer. But add 50% to the wages of, say, migrant fruit pickers to account for the social costs. You think we will have US citizens lining up to take those jobs?
First off, we have a guest worker pass, it is a myth that most illegals are picking food.
They are in construction more so. They will work without safety gear and for cash, then use the ER and never pay the bills.
They are in Landscape, hotels, and for goodness sakes, didn't one illegal get some major award in the last few years?
Trump got in because of his stance on the border, sure hope he follows through.
This is truly scary but in this I agree with Barz. Anybody here that professes to be a Christian better read that part of Mathew he posted. Most Hispanics are christian.
If we're not Christian, do you have another argument besides the faith based trolling?
quote:Originally posted by brewer12345
quote:Originally posted by mag00
quote:Originally posted by brewer12345
Practically speaking, they aren't all ever going back. There are simply too many and they provide too much cheap labor for the economy to continue chugging along without them. But I think it is pretty clear that reforms are needed:
- No more catch and release
- If they commit a crime that is a felony or a violent misdemeanor do the time and then get deported
- Actually control the border to stop the influx
- Anyone else may apply to be a temporary guest worker. If you have not declared yourself and been issued a temporary permit within a year, you get deported.
Don't kid yourself, it is not cheap labor. The cost to taxpayers is tremendous. Since SB1070, the bill that requires the police to enforce the law, in the first year crime dropped 43% car theft dropped 50%, schools enrollment from illegals dropped 23%, other resources dropped for illegals dropped tremendously.
To hire an illegal, you still pay them cash, not into ss or workers comp or other stuff that we all pay.
Illegal labor only helps the one hiring them, and that needs to end to keep business competition fair.
Absolutely agree that a lot of the costs get dumped on society as a whole rather than the employer. But add 50% to the wages of, say, migrant fruit pickers to account for the social costs. You think we will have US citizens lining up to take those jobs?
First off, we have a guest worker pass, it is a myth that most illegals are picking food.
They are in construction more so. They will work without safety gear and for cash, then use the ER and never pay the bills.
They are in Landscape, hotels, and for goodness sakes, didn't one illegal get some major award in the last few years?
Trump got in because of his stance on the border, sure hope he follows through.
What is missing in all of this is prosecution of the people who employ illegals. Given the corrupt nature of our government, I will not be holding my breath to see that change any time soon. If we can get the border policed regularly and start deporting the criminals, I will call it as good as we can likely hope for.
For those of you who aren't Christian maybe you should contemplate going to war within your own country with 15,000,000 people. I doubt if you would come out unscathed. Like Chief Joseph said " it is easy to pick up the rifle now we will see how hard it is to put it down" that is a paraphrase.
I never been called a troll before. Can you define that for me? If you win an argument with a liberal your a Racist. If you win an argument with a Know it all your a Troll. Thanks.
Christianity is not a religion it is a theology. You are partially wrong when you say this nation was never a christian nation. You better go read some more history. Jefferson is a good place to start.
We were founded on Christian principals. Originally the bible was taught in public schools. The constitution says "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof". The congress has never made a law establishing a religion but our Government had prohibited the free exercise thereof and so far has gotten away with it. Anybody who tells you Jefferson was a atheist is a liar or ignorant. Nobody ever said we were governed by religion nor did anybody suggest it since King George the 3rd. The colonies were partially governed by religion. That is why we have the religion clause.
Everyone who feels this way should take in someone in need and not force their belief system upon the nation as a whole. A nation's borders, particularly our borders, are to there to signify and protect our sovereignty.
You stated earlier that a portion of the US was taken from Mexico through force of arms. This is true.
How many former Mexicans were forced out of their homes and their lands? They became Americans, and those outside the new borders remained Mexicans. If your concern is for the individual, perhaps you should consider how much better the lives became for those who were included in the new American territories because of the governing structure we had and have.
I have never heard anyone suggest that Americans of Mexican heritage are not welcome, Christian or otherwise.
Brad Steele
Bull.
I have been involved with the fruit industry in VA for several decades. Commercial apple orchards. 600 to 1500 acres. I don't see any $5 apples. Come picking season, there is not enough local labor to harvest the crop. Every year, it gets harvested the same way. LEGAL migrant workers- usually from Haiti and Jamaica. They come in to the US on an agricultural migrant work permit. The crews start in GA, and work they way North, following the harvest.
They are paid a legal wage- with taxes, SS and Worker's Comp. I can't speak for other grower's, but the crew quarters that I inspected met standards for safety and sanitation. When they finish, THEY GO HOME. WITH their earnings. Most will live decently at home, and return next year. Hard work? Oh HELL yes! But it not slavery, it is not inhumane. And you ain't paying $5 for an apple.
Now go sit in your local court for a day. Tell me how many of the people facing criminal charges need an interpreter. Go visit the prisons, and tell me the same. Go visit the hospital ERs, and tell me who pays the bills for the people that have no insurance, no money (hint- everybody reading this pays). Tell me who is paying the bill for welfare, food stamps, and funding the schools that are overwhelmed with students whose parents do not pay taxes.
Go talk to the people that live close to the border that are barricaded in their houses after dark. This is not 20-30-40 people a night coming over the border- it is in the thousands- every night.
You said he was an honest man. Remember. Trump said he wanted to deport CRIMINAL illegals. You are talking like a liberal. Stop it.
I have never heard anyone suggest that Americans of Mexican heritage are not welcome, Christian or otherwise.
This all started awhile back. The United Statesers took American to mean United States of Americans. Mexican Americans, (Americans from Mexico), should not be confused with United States of Americans of Mexican decent.
Rac Ops.
For those of you who aren't Christian maybe you should contemplate going to war within your own country with 15,000,000 people. I doubt if you would come out unscathed.
It wouldn't be the first time I picked up a rifle and went to war.
I spent a fair portion of my younger days in the Infantry.
As to whether I come through unscathed, that matters not a bit. We are all dying from the moment we are born. It's just a matter of when.
At any rate, going to war isn't what I advocate. Mass deportations would be horribly inefficient.
Your friend Jesus would have been arrested and returned to Guatemala immediately.
If he returned, he'd be charged with a felony and incarcerated for not less than a year....and then returned to his homeland again.
Make it more difficult to game the system for them and they will go home on their own.
quote:
I never been called a troll before. Can you define that for me? If you win an argument with a liberal your a Racist. If you win an argument with a Know it all your a Troll. Thanks.
You haven't won any argument. You've simply imposed your version of Christianity on everyone else while attacking the faith of those who disagree.