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quote:Originally posted by Barzillia
Quite honestly, that sort of gloss over the consequences of the war and the subsequent treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo is very disappointing.
The Mexicans in the annexed territory were given the option of staying or leaving. The vast majority stayed and became full citizens of the US of A.
No attempt to gloss over anything. The Treaty, while obviously Mexico was forced into it, resulted in the US paying 15 million for the new territory and all claims by US citizens against the Mexican government were dropped / compensated for out of the US Treasury.
The war was not one of our finer moments as a nation, but in the context of the time, it was handled fairly well.
Freedom and a submissive populace cannot co-exist.
quote:Originally posted by Rack Ops
quote:Originally posted by jerrywh818
Rac Ops.
For those of you who aren't Christian maybe you should contemplate going to war within your own country with 15,000,000 people. I doubt if you would come out unscathed.
It wouldn't be the first time I picked up a rifle and went to war.
I spent a fair portion of my younger days in the Infantry.
As to whether I come through unscathed, that matters not a bit. We are all dying from the moment we are born. It's just a matter of when.
At any rate, going to war isn't what I advocate. Mass deportations would be horribly inefficient.
Your friend Jesus would have been arrested and returned to Guatemala immediately.
If he returned, he'd be charged with a felony and incarcerated for not less than a year....and then returned to his homeland again.
Make it more difficult to game the system for them and they will go home on their own.
quote:
I never been called a troll before. Can you define that for me? If you win an argument with a liberal your a Racist. If you win an argument with a Know it all your a Troll. Thanks.
You haven't won any argument. You've simply imposed your version of Christianity on everyone else while attacking the faith of those who disagree.
+1000 Grant
"Beam me up Scotty, there's no intelligent life down here." - William Shatner
Rack ops.
" You've simply imposed your version of Christianity on everyone else while attacking the faith of those who disagree." Rack ops.
Well your right about one thing. Jesus is my friend. As far as the
imposition and the attack on others goes, when did that happen?
Sounds like your delusional to me.
The rest of us are having a rational discussion, I think
PS I was a combat medic at age 17.
The immigration mess is too big now to have a easy solution even if the Democrats were trying to help instead of hinder. Deporting most felons and some other criminals plus people with major communicable diseases would be a good start. Long prison terms for those that return. The deportation/or road to citizenship can be open for debate.
quote:Originally posted by bpost
Are we a nation of Laws or a nation of sob stories?
Yep....do I appreciate that many are hard working, and relatively honest, non violent folks sure. Am I going to put them before my family or my country...no
It is intellectually dishonest to call a man that came here illegally, drives illegally and places everyone else on the road at risk because he doesn't have insurance an honest person. My sister was rear ended by a hard working illegal, with no license, and no insurance. Clearly his fault and her car was totaled, so she was out a car because she only had liability and she has life long back injuries. She didn't have a high paying job and was scrapping buy to have that lil paid for Honda Civic. He just disappeared and she was left holding the bag. hardcore criminal, probably not, but there is a cost to him being in this country and I don't want to pay it.
We deal with illegals all the time. Almost all of them are very respectful and compliant. I don't blame them for wanting to come here and make a better life, and send all their money home. The fact remains that they are not entitled to be here. Just like I would not be entitled or welcome to just be in their home country.
Very good point Shilowar. I am truly sorry for the loss to your sister. I lost a daughter to drugs and a Mexican provided them to her. She had three small children. When a man with a family is in a survival situation he does what he has to do. Does that make him dishonest? Every man must be judged for his own crimes not the crimes of others. All Americans have paid a price for this. Hillary was for expanding the problem. The politicians imposed this on us. Now what are we to do. That is the question. I say we build the wall first. Then What, is the question. Our politicians swore to uphold the law. They lied. They should pay a price for this. They are accessories to every crime committed by the illegals
So after the New Year are we going back to the term "Illegals" or keep the "undocumented citizens"? Also being a christen gets you a pass? I don't know why religion got in to illegal topic but it's Friday [:D].
Personally it's jacked up just because folks from South of the border can walk or ride the bus or raft to the US. While folks that cannot do the legal immigration. Only because they can't walk, bus or raft to the US. Or do they go through the legal channel because they're not criminals?
I think it's the "second" and "third" generation that makes them look bad. You know Americans. Monkey see, monkey do. Get knocked up, pop out a few and get on the government teat. Also if they don't die from drugs or gangs some of them turn out okay. After all I am a Vato Loco in good standing.
Example - I was looking at the local rag where "students" in Salinas walked out of school to demonstrate (home of Ceasar Chavez the Mexican MLK more or less). With "teachers" encouraging them. I figure the teachers aren't teaching and the students aren't learning so go out and *. I'll give them 50/50 on graduating any ways. Better odds on dead or preggers. No bets on jail.
If they wanna work at a lower rate for the same task and do a good job. I say it's capitalism baby.
The government need to set a "standard" (I almost made it with a straight face [:D]) where everyone needs to meet. No more anchor babies. More I think about it if I live another 20 years I don't give a fork what happens. The way I see it Rome is burning.
quote:Originally posted by jerrywh818
Most of us Americans do not understand illegals at all because we do not know how they lived before they came here. I knew at least a 1000 of them and probably closer to 3000.
One person in particular made an impression on me....This was not an isolated incident. I knew a lot of them like this from different countries.
There is a small issue with your lionizing of this illegal in my opinion. What you've described doesn't prove much.
Reprobates mimic. They know how to "put on an air" so they seem like a great guy.
They also go out of their way to score points with critics.
When people are looking at them, reprobates can try real hard and even manage to pay back some money and blow someone's mind.
Now he might be the guy he portrays himself as, but what you stated isn't enough proof.
If they're all so honest, how'd they lose the country?
quote:Originally posted by jerrywh818
What I am saying is not all of them should be thrown out. Are you people saying all of them should go? Why not? We don't need the extra help, except for a few corporations who are making a bundle by artificially depressing the labor market.
Why can't we decide based on what Americans need?
If we DO need them, let them go out, get their documents in order, then come back as guests, then we'll be able to tell the bad ones from the good.
They should all go for another reason as well. Let them get back in line behind the ones who are respecting our laws.
Politics, Religion/Theology and fat girls should never be brought into a discussion about some pitiable Guatemalan illegal alien that drives around without a license or insurance, regardless of which forum member is acquainted with his previous lifestyle.
Maybe he should have stopped his Northward trek in Mexico, where they would greet him with open arms & free stuff for life.
quote:Originally posted by shilowar
quote:Originally posted by bpost
Are we a nation of Laws or a nation of sob stories?
Yep....do I appreciate that many are hard working, and relatively honest, non violent folks sure. Am I going to put them before my family or my country...no
It is intellectually dishonest to call a man that came here illegally, drives illegally and places everyone else on the road at risk because he doesn't have insurance an honest person. My sister was rear ended by a hard working illegal, with no license, and no insurance. Clearly his fault and her car was totaled, so she was out a car because she only had liability and she has life long back injuries. She didn't have a high paying job and was scrapping buy to have that lil paid for Honda Civic. He just disappeared and she was left holding the bag. hardcore criminal, probably not, but there is a cost to him being in this country and I don't want to pay it.
We deal with illegals all the time. Almost all of them are very respectful and compliant. I don't blame them for wanting to come here and make a better life, and send all their money home. The fact remains that they are not entitled to be here. Just like I would not be entitled or welcome to just be in their home country.
An extremely well stated argument, for why they should not be here.
It is not up to us, (just making it,) working folk, to support the entire worlds population. Those who decide to waltz across the border, should be shown the door.
You have to draw a line somewhere, that line should be at the border.
Our founding fathers had a revolution and established a unique concentration of power in the hands of the individual citizens of this country. They worked at creating a framework for a country where rights of individuals were paramount. We have enjoyed great success and prosperity thanks to their foresight.
Lets print 10 million or so pocket Constitutions and a brief pamphlet on starting revolutions in Spanish before sending them back to the countries which still need to have a revolution.
No reason why any other country couldn't adopt our Constitution and Bill of Rights and prosper on their own.
The only reason that theology was ever introduced into this topic is to show the hypocrisy of some here. I often see references to Christianity on this forum but when it comes to costing them something that goes away fast for some of them.
Believe me when I say I am a well known hard * and don't fall for sob stories well at all. I repossessed cars for 15 years and I have heard them all. I only got conned once by a women with a baby that I know of.
As far as the deportation of all of them goes it is never going to happen. It is an impossibility. It would start an armed revolution within our ranks. We would have the War of Northern Aggression . You could never deport 10 to 30 million people without armed revolt. Those people have a lot of friends both regular and political. It ain't gonna happen. Therefore we have to look at the best alternative. What is that? There is at least one state that has a good idea in my opinion. They have a drivers license for illegals that is marked so they cannot vote but they can drive and get insurance.
.
quote:Originally posted by jerrywh818
The only reason that theology was ever introduced into this topic is to show the hypocrisy of some here. I often see references to Christianity on this forum but when it comes to costing them something that goes away fast for some of them.
Yes. hypocrisy abounds on this forum. For one example you might go look in a mirror. How so you say? Leading up to the election, you were in the barrel for Trump, big time. You called anybody that dared grumble about Trump a "Hillary supporter". Now you are showing bleeding heart liberal on one of your guy's greatest stands. How's that for hypocrisy?
quote:Originally posted by jerrywh818
The only reason that theology was ever introduced into this topic is to show the hypocrisy of some here. I often see references to Christianity on this forum but when it comes to costing them something that goes away fast for some of them.
Believe me when I say I am a well known hard * and don't fall for sob stories well at all. I repossessed cars for 15 years and I have heard them all. I only got conned once by a women with a baby that I know of.
As far as the deportation of all of them goes it is never going to happen. It is an impossibility. It would start an armed revolution within our ranks. We would have the War of Northern Aggression . You could never deport 10 to 30 million people without armed revolt. Those people have a lot of friends both regular and political. It ain't gonna happen. Therefore we have to look at the best alternative. What is that? There is at least one state that has a good idea in my opinion. They have a drivers license for illegals that is marked so they cannot vote but they can drive and get insurance.
.
It is a proven fact that illegal aliens who received Driver's licenses in one of several states that issue them to illegal aliens (new Mexico), the Secretary of state tried to contact 23,000 "future insurance buyers", and exactly 12 were still at the address on the license.
Further research on those missing individuals found that they all had new licenses in other states, and de facto citizenship as well, since the other states took the nM license as proof of citizenship.
Yeah, what a great idea; like charging for concert tickets, but not fencing it in.
quote:Originally posted by gunnut505
quote:Originally posted by jerrywh818
The only reason that theology was ever introduced into this topic is to show the hypocrisy of some here. I often see references to Christianity on this forum but when it comes to costing them something that goes away fast for some of them.
Believe me when I say I am a well known hard * and don't fall for sob stories well at all. I repossessed cars for 15 years and I have heard them all. I only got conned once by a women with a baby that I know of.
As far as the deportation of all of them goes it is never going to happen. It is an impossibility. It would start an armed revolution within our ranks. We would have the War of Northern Aggression . You could never deport 10 to 30 million people without armed revolt. Those people have a lot of friends both regular and political. It ain't gonna happen. Therefore we have to look at the best alternative. What is that? There is at least one state that has a good idea in my opinion. They have a drivers license for illegals that is marked so they cannot vote but they can drive and get insurance.
.
It is a proven fact that illegal aliens who received Driver's licenses in one of several states that issue them to illegal aliens (new Mexico), the Secretary of state tried to contact 23,000 "future insurance buyers", and exactly 12 were still at the address on the license.
Further research on those missing individuals found that they all had new licenses in other states, and de facto citizenship as well, since the other states took the nM license as proof of citizenship.
Yeah, what a great idea; like charging for concert tickets, but not fencing it in.
Give it up,...you can't argue with liberals.
"Beam me up Scotty, there's no intelligent life down here." - William Shatner
I don't care what their situation was back home, nor do I care what it is now. If they are here illegally, kick their * out. If they want to go through the proper channels, and get their citizenships the right way, fine, but they wouldn't be called illegals then, would they?
I'll be damned if I get talked down to by a hypocrite bozo that would have to be 253 years old to have worked as many jobs as he claims he has. If I want to hear a sermon, I'll go to church.
An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it.
quote:Originally posted by 35 Whelen
I don't care what their situation was back home, nor do I care what it is now. If they are here illegally, kick their * out. If they want to go through the proper channels, and get their citizenships the right way, fine, but they wouldn't be called illegals then, would they?
I'll be damned if I get talked down to by a hypocrite bozo that would have to be 253 years old to have worked as many jobs as he claims he has. If I want to hear a sermon, I'll go to church.
Yep, and crickets
quote:Originally posted by 35 Whelen
I don't care what their situation was back home, nor do I care what it is now. If they are here illegally, kick their * out. If they want to go through the proper channels, and get their citizenships the right way, fine, but they wouldn't be called illegals then, would they?
I'll be damned if I get talked down to by a hypocrite bozo that would have to be 253 years old to have worked as many jobs as he claims he has. If I want to hear a sermon, I'll go to church.
LMAO[:D]
"Beam me up Scotty, there's no intelligent life down here." - William Shatner
Yeah I voted for Trump and supported him. That doesn't mean I believe in everything he proposed. He was the best choice of what we had to choose from. If all the illegals could be deported that might be fine but I,m saying it isn't going to happen and therefore there must be some other solution.
All the name calling and unsubstantiated accusations about me does not contribute to the solution one bit. You must have run out of logic.
For anybody's information I'm 80 years old and worked every single job I said I did. Furthermore I came out fairly well off. Some people only know how to do one thing well. That doesn't mean everybody is like that.
I'm still working. Sounds like I hit a nerve on some one, or two.
If you want to give up deporting all illegals before trying, that is your choice. I say let's at least try deporting them all, and if it fails, so be it.
Pic the low hanging and rotten fruit first. You'll be amazed at the amount of self deportation if a hefty fine and or jail time was involved. (and reparations) What's left will eventually fall or get eaten by the birds.
quote:Originally posted by jerrywh818
Yeah I voted for Trump and supported him. That doesn't mean I believe in everything he proposed. He was the best choice of what we had to choose from. If all the illegals could be deported that might be fine but I,m saying it isn't going to happen and therefore there must be some other solution.
All the name calling and unsubstantiated accusations about me does not contribute to the solution one bit. You must have run out of logic.
For anybody's information I'm 80 years old and worked every single job I said I did. Furthermore I came out fairly well off. Some people only know how to do one thing well. That doesn't mean everybody is like that.
I'm still working. Sounds like I hit a nerve on some one, or two.
Yes you did hit a Nerve or two. A very Anti American Nerve, or two![:(!]
There is no such thing as Liberal Men, only Liberal Women with Penises.'
quote:Originally posted by jerrywh818
Yeah I voted for Trump and supported him. That doesn't mean I believe in everything he proposed. He was the best choice of what we had to choose from. If all the illegals could be deported that might be fine but I,m saying it isn't going to happen and therefore there must be some other solution.
All the name calling and unsubstantiated accusations about me does not contribute to the solution one bit. You must have run out of logic.
For anybody's information I'm 80 years old and worked every single job I said I did. Furthermore I came out fairly well off. Some people only know how to do one thing well. That doesn't mean everybody is like that.
I'm still working. Sounds like I hit a nerve on some one, or two.
Did you hit the nerves in Jesus Jaspar's hands when you decided to hang him from a cross in your OP?
An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it.
I am always struck in conversations about illegal immigrants from somewhere/anywhere South of us to hear how they are such wonderful people, a credit to the human race, and a positive factor in this country, even as a relatively small segment of the population.
Yet their home countries, where these fine and devout folks are an overwhelming majority, are without exception 3rd World crapholes, full of multi-generational poverty, crime, and corruption at every level.
Who is causing those countries to be such cruddy places? Roving bands of Norwegians? Icelandic separatists? Belgian polygamists?
I have this crazy idea that these people belong to a culture that has never formed a successful, functioning 1st World society anywhere on the race of the planet. Coming here, and continuing to follow that failed culture simply brings those problems with them.
It is a false choice to claim that we have to deport all the illegal immigrants, or just live with them. Stop enabling their remaining. Require E-Verify be used. Clamp down on remittances that support the non-functional countries they left behind. Stop supporting their prolific breeding with endless public subsidies. They will self-deport when the gravy train ends, and if they are as wonderful and family oriented as some like to claim, they will take their spawn with them.
Well so far it seems like Dads3040 has come up with the most logical solution in my opinion. E verify is a good idea in my opinion. The only thing that 35 Whelen has proven is he, resents Christianity, has a bad temper a big mouth and no answer so he attacks the messenger. A real bad *.
I said many times don't feed the squirrels. That is the most logical solution. I also think that If we don't close the border and stop the drugs this country will end up the same as those crap holes some of you described. By the way, I never preached to anybody, my post was directed at anybody who professed to be a christian. Apparently that does not apply to Whelen so don't be afraid Whelen your safe. Rant on.
Anybody else have any intelligent solutions?
quote:Originally posted by jerrywh818
Well so far it seems like Dads3040 has come up with the most logical solution in my opinion. E verify is a good idea in my opinion. The only thing that 35 Whelen has proven is he, resents Christianity, has a bad temper a big mouth and no answer so he attacks the messenger. A real bad *.
I said many times don't feed the squirrels. That is the most logical solution. I also think that If we don't close the border and stop the drugs this country will end up the same as those crap holes some of you described. By the way, I never preached to anybody, my post was directed at anybody who professed to be a christian. Apparently that does not apply to Whelen so don't be afraid Whelen your safe. Rant on.
Anybody else have any intelligent solutions?
Jerry, don't you believe that God helps you if you try to lead an honest life and treat people as you would be treated?
SoreShoulder
Maybe God helps you for good behavior as in your question. Can't say for sure but I do think that the world is set up by God so that that those kinds of actions are self rewarding. In other words a person will reap what they sow. I have been accused of being religious but religion is denominational in my opinion. I believe much like Jefferson did. I don't have much use for man made denominations. Can't find that in the bible either. Man has turned Christianity and at least most other theologies into a profit making and power grabbing business and most intelligent people are getting wise to that. That is why so many resent any mention of a God. There has to be some kind of intelligent direction in the universe. Nothing else makes any sense at all.
Almost everybody confuses the subject of a supreme power with religion. I don't think it is the same thing.
I studied a lot of primitive people and all but one tribe Had some belief of a creator. However that doesn't prove there is one. The proof is what is, for anybody who thinks a bout it.
I'm really not trying to sell the idea. I have nothing to gain or loose. I'm just thinking out loud and you asked.
Question for the supporters how many illegals have you taken in and supported or just sit there and pass judgement and how many is to many for us to support.
E-verify and Jail employers that knowingly hire illegals and if we need workers use the Visa system and they go home when the work is done so they can be eligible to come back if we need help. Main point is they have to leave their families home so we don't have to support them. American's and Legal immigrant need our support not law-breakers
quote:Originally posted by jerrywh818
SoreShoulder
Maybe God helps you for good behavior as in your question. Can't say for sure but I do think that the world is set up by God so that that those kinds of actions are self rewarding. In other words a person will reap what they sow. I have been accused of being religious but religion is denominational in my opinion. I believe much like Jefferson did. I don't have much use for man made denominations. Can't find that in the bible either. Man has turned Christianity and at least most other theologies into a profit making and power grabbing business and most intelligent people are getting wise to that. That is why so many resent any mention of a God. There has to be some kind of intelligent direction in the universe. Nothing else makes any sense at all.
Almost everybody confuses the subject of a supreme power with religion. I don't think it is the same thing.
I studied a lot of primitive people and all but one tribe Had some belief of a creator. However that doesn't prove there is one. The proof is what is, for anybody who thinks a bout it.
I'm really not trying to sell the idea. I have nothing to gain or loose. I'm just thinking out loud and you asked.
What I mean is, if they're all so saintly, how'd they lose the country?
quote:Originally posted by jerrywh818
What I am saying is not all of them should be thrown out. Are you people saying all of them should go? I am aware of all the problems that have been stated here. I have had some of them myself. The bad ones have to go. If they all have to go we better get started because there are between 14,000,000 and 30,000,000 of them. In the meantime we will be fighting a revolution. It Ain't gonna happen folks. Get Real. Some of them are more patriotic than we are. The worst part is the Drugs. The drugs have to be stopped no matter what.
MERCURY. I'm for the wall.
Mogley98
They don't have to live in my yard. There are places here where you can't see a house for 50 miles or more.
Throw them all out and let the good ones back in,if they respect our laws.
Let's put it a different way. Lets take a head count. How many here think we can extradite 14,000,000 men women and kids?
How long would it take? What would it cost?
About April I took a trip to Woodburn Oregon. I passed by the high school when it was letting out. I only saw 1 kid that was not Hispanic out of about 50 or 60. those kids are all American citizens but most of their parents are probably not. I'm not making the case one way or another. I'm just pointing out the situation.
Nobody here that I am aware of said those people were all saintly.
quote:Originally posted by Dads3040
I am always struck in conversations about illegal immigrants from somewhere/anywhere South of us to hear how they are such wonderful people, a credit to the human race, and a positive factor in this country, even as a relatively small segment of the population.
Yet their home countries, where these fine and devout folks are an overwhelming majority, are without exception 3rd World crapholes, full of multi-generational poverty, crime, and corruption at every level.
Who is causing those countries to be such cruddy places? Roving bands of Norwegians? Icelandic separatists? Belgian polygamists?
I have this crazy idea that these people belong to a culture that has never formed a successful, functioning 1st World society anywhere on the race of the planet. Coming here, and continuing to follow that failed culture simply brings those problems with them.
It is a false choice to claim that we have to deport all the illegal immigrants, or just live with them. Stop enabling their remaining. Require E-Verify be used. Clamp down on remittances that support the non-functional countries they left behind. Stop supporting their prolific breeding with endless public subsidies. They will self-deport when the gravy train ends, and if they are as wonderful and family oriented as some like to claim, they will take their spawn with them.
You just stated most of the ideas I have been espousing for years. Even most folks that I associate with think I am too much of a hard *,....especially on the 'legal child' issue.
My response is much like yours. If you want to maintain the family unit, take your kid back to your mother country. If you want him/her to be raised in America put them up for adoption.
The parents that came here illegally are the ones responsible for the mess the kids are in,....not me. Breaking the law can have some unpleasant results, and it should.
"Beam me up Scotty, there's no intelligent life down here." - William Shatner
quote:Originally posted by jerrywh818
Well so far it seems like Dads3040 has come up with the most logical solution in my opinion. E verify is a good idea in my opinion. The only thing that 35 Whelen has proven is he, resents Christianity, has a bad temper a big mouth and no answer so he attacks the messenger. A real bad *.
I said many times don't feed the squirrels. That is the most logical solution. I also think that If we don't close the border and stop the drugs this country will end up the same as those crap holes some of you described. By the way, I never preached to anybody, my post was directed at anybody who professed to be a christian. Apparently that does not apply to Whelen so don't be afraid Whelen your safe. Rant on.
Anybody else have any intelligent solutions?
I worship the same God that you do, the difference being that I don't force that belief on anyone. If someone wants to listen to my understanding of faith, they are welcome. You seem to think that your personal relationship with God rests on a level higher than others.
You claim that I have a temper, a big mouth, that I resent God, and that I have no answers.
What I have is the understanding that it's very, very difficult to portray emotion in simple text.
Temper? Nope. Context.
You claim that I have a big mouth. What I have is an opinion. If that qualifies a person to have your definition of a big mouth, I expect to receive my membership card to that exclusive club called "everyone else" shortly.
Big mouth?
You claim that I resent Christianity. You couldn't be more wrong, because at this point in life, my faith has never been stronger. What I don't have is the belief that I'm perfect, because I know that isn't true.
I resent Christianity? Not to your knowledge, I don't, because you simply don't know. Here's a hint from me personally: I worship the same God you do.
You claim that I have no answers. The answer I have is the one you don't want to hear, so you hop on the morality pedestal, in an attempt to make me look bad. Good luck.
Jerry, based on your above comment directed at me, I'd say we're both due to brush up on the Christian view of who should and should not be judgemental, because in God's eyes, we're equal. I hope you're able to accept that fact.
An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it.
Regarding cost, this is a law enforcement issue and not an economic one. How would anyone react if, after someone in their family was killed, the police showed up & said "it costs alot of money to find the guy & put him in jail - plus, most people never kill again ... so what's the point?"
Immigration laws exist to benefit the US and its citizens, not the people trying to legally immigrate. That seems to be forgotten these days. It's not about being fair to the poor fellow trying to get in. There's nothing fair about taking in a Cuban while tossing out a Haitian who floats ashore in FL, nor accepting a "political prisoner" from El Salvador while rejecting an "economic refugee" from the same country. All the Italian, German, Irish that came here - they came to benefit a building a country, to feed the economic machine.
Has anyone noticed the new popular term - migration, or migrant? The concept of a person crossing from one country to the next, that a country granting permission to enter is entirely left out using that term. It's deliberate and I expect we'll hear it more often.
quote:Originally posted by jerrywh818
Let's put it a different way. Lets take a head count. How many here think we can extradite 14,000,000 men women and kids?
How long would it take? What would it cost?
About April I took a trip to Woodburn Oregon. I passed by the high school when it was letting out. I only saw 1 kid that was not Hispanic out of about 50 or 60. those kids are all American citizens but most of their parents are probably not. I'm not making the case one way or another. I'm just pointing out the situation.
Nobody here that I am aware of said those people were all saintly.
Whether we think we can or not, if we don't try, it won't happen.
Financially? Well the ill gotten gains by the illegals should be returned or reimbursed by the illegal. Fair enough. Like drug seizures fund that dept.
And again, once word is out, they will self deport. So after the first 10,000 the next 12 million will be easy. And that is a good start, then go after the lawyers who aid and abet. And families who aid and abet.
Participate in murder? Same deal. Get real tough. Accomplices need to be fined, jailed etc.
quote:Originally posted by jerrywh818
Let's put it a different way. Lets take a head count. How many here think we can extradite 14,000,000 men women and kids?
How long would it take? What would it cost?
About April I took a trip to Woodburn Oregon. I passed by the high school when it was letting out. I only saw 1 kid that was not Hispanic out of about 50 or 60. those kids are all American citizens but most of their parents are probably not. I'm not making the case one way or another. I'm just pointing out the situation.
Nobody here that I am aware of said those people were all saintly.
Seriously?
Enforce the Laws already in place and 75% of them would go home!
Only the Felons would be left!
There is no such thing as Liberal Men, only Liberal Women with Penises.'
Comments
Quite honestly, that sort of gloss over the consequences of the war and the subsequent treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo is very disappointing.
The Mexicans in the annexed territory were given the option of staying or leaving. The vast majority stayed and became full citizens of the US of A.
No attempt to gloss over anything. The Treaty, while obviously Mexico was forced into it, resulted in the US paying 15 million for the new territory and all claims by US citizens against the Mexican government were dropped / compensated for out of the US Treasury.
The war was not one of our finer moments as a nation, but in the context of the time, it was handled fairly well.
Brad Steele
quote:Originally posted by jerrywh818
Rac Ops.
For those of you who aren't Christian maybe you should contemplate going to war within your own country with 15,000,000 people. I doubt if you would come out unscathed.
It wouldn't be the first time I picked up a rifle and went to war.
I spent a fair portion of my younger days in the Infantry.
As to whether I come through unscathed, that matters not a bit. We are all dying from the moment we are born. It's just a matter of when.
At any rate, going to war isn't what I advocate. Mass deportations would be horribly inefficient.
Your friend Jesus would have been arrested and returned to Guatemala immediately.
If he returned, he'd be charged with a felony and incarcerated for not less than a year....and then returned to his homeland again.
Make it more difficult to game the system for them and they will go home on their own.
quote:
I never been called a troll before. Can you define that for me? If you win an argument with a liberal your a Racist. If you win an argument with a Know it all your a Troll. Thanks.
You haven't won any argument. You've simply imposed your version of Christianity on everyone else while attacking the faith of those who disagree.
+1000 Grant
" You've simply imposed your version of Christianity on everyone else while attacking the faith of those who disagree." Rack ops.
Well your right about one thing. Jesus is my friend. As far as the
imposition and the attack on others goes, when did that happen?
Sounds like your delusional to me.
The rest of us are having a rational discussion, I think
PS I was a combat medic at age 17.
Are we a nation of Laws or a nation of sob stories?
Yep....do I appreciate that many are hard working, and relatively honest, non violent folks sure. Am I going to put them before my family or my country...no
It is intellectually dishonest to call a man that came here illegally, drives illegally and places everyone else on the road at risk because he doesn't have insurance an honest person. My sister was rear ended by a hard working illegal, with no license, and no insurance. Clearly his fault and her car was totaled, so she was out a car because she only had liability and she has life long back injuries. She didn't have a high paying job and was scrapping buy to have that lil paid for Honda Civic. He just disappeared and she was left holding the bag. hardcore criminal, probably not, but there is a cost to him being in this country and I don't want to pay it.
We deal with illegals all the time. Almost all of them are very respectful and compliant. I don't blame them for wanting to come here and make a better life, and send all their money home. The fact remains that they are not entitled to be here. Just like I would not be entitled or welcome to just be in their home country.
Personally it's jacked up just because folks from South of the border can walk or ride the bus or raft to the US. While folks that cannot do the legal immigration. Only because they can't walk, bus or raft to the US. Or do they go through the legal channel because they're not criminals?
I think it's the "second" and "third" generation that makes them look bad. You know Americans. Monkey see, monkey do. Get knocked up, pop out a few and get on the government teat. Also if they don't die from drugs or gangs some of them turn out okay. After all I am a Vato Loco in good standing.
Example - I was looking at the local rag where "students" in Salinas walked out of school to demonstrate (home of Ceasar Chavez the Mexican MLK more or less). With "teachers" encouraging them. I figure the teachers aren't teaching and the students aren't learning so go out and *. I'll give them 50/50 on graduating any ways. Better odds on dead or preggers. No bets on jail.
If they wanna work at a lower rate for the same task and do a good job. I say it's capitalism baby.
The government need to set a "standard" (I almost made it with a straight face [:D]) where everyone needs to meet. No more anchor babies. More I think about it if I live another 20 years I don't give a fork what happens. The way I see it Rome is burning.
Most of us Americans do not understand illegals at all because we do not know how they lived before they came here. I knew at least a 1000 of them and probably closer to 3000.
One person in particular made an impression on me....This was not an isolated incident. I knew a lot of them like this from different countries.
There is a small issue with your lionizing of this illegal in my opinion. What you've described doesn't prove much.
Reprobates mimic. They know how to "put on an air" so they seem like a great guy.
They also go out of their way to score points with critics.
When people are looking at them, reprobates can try real hard and even manage to pay back some money and blow someone's mind.
Now he might be the guy he portrays himself as, but what you stated isn't enough proof.
If they're all so honest, how'd they lose the country?
What I am saying is not all of them should be thrown out. Are you people saying all of them should go? Why not? We don't need the extra help, except for a few corporations who are making a bundle by artificially depressing the labor market.
Why can't we decide based on what Americans need?
If we DO need them, let them go out, get their documents in order, then come back as guests, then we'll be able to tell the bad ones from the good.
They should all go for another reason as well. Let them get back in line behind the ones who are respecting our laws.
Maybe he should have stopped his Northward trek in Mexico, where they would greet him with open arms & free stuff for life.
quote:Originally posted by bpost
Are we a nation of Laws or a nation of sob stories?
Yep....do I appreciate that many are hard working, and relatively honest, non violent folks sure. Am I going to put them before my family or my country...no
It is intellectually dishonest to call a man that came here illegally, drives illegally and places everyone else on the road at risk because he doesn't have insurance an honest person. My sister was rear ended by a hard working illegal, with no license, and no insurance. Clearly his fault and her car was totaled, so she was out a car because she only had liability and she has life long back injuries. She didn't have a high paying job and was scrapping buy to have that lil paid for Honda Civic. He just disappeared and she was left holding the bag. hardcore criminal, probably not, but there is a cost to him being in this country and I don't want to pay it.
We deal with illegals all the time. Almost all of them are very respectful and compliant. I don't blame them for wanting to come here and make a better life, and send all their money home. The fact remains that they are not entitled to be here. Just like I would not be entitled or welcome to just be in their home country.
An extremely well stated argument, for why they should not be here.
It is not up to us, (just making it,) working folk, to support the entire worlds population. Those who decide to waltz across the border, should be shown the door.
You have to draw a line somewhere, that line should be at the border.
Lets print 10 million or so pocket Constitutions and a brief pamphlet on starting revolutions in Spanish before sending them back to the countries which still need to have a revolution.
No reason why any other country couldn't adopt our Constitution and Bill of Rights and prosper on their own.
Believe me when I say I am a well known hard * and don't fall for sob stories well at all. I repossessed cars for 15 years and I have heard them all. I only got conned once by a women with a baby that I know of.
As far as the deportation of all of them goes it is never going to happen. It is an impossibility. It would start an armed revolution within our ranks. We would have the War of Northern Aggression . You could never deport 10 to 30 million people without armed revolt. Those people have a lot of friends both regular and political. It ain't gonna happen. Therefore we have to look at the best alternative. What is that? There is at least one state that has a good idea in my opinion. They have a drivers license for illegals that is marked so they cannot vote but they can drive and get insurance.
.
The only reason that theology was ever introduced into this topic is to show the hypocrisy of some here. I often see references to Christianity on this forum but when it comes to costing them something that goes away fast for some of them.
Yes. hypocrisy abounds on this forum. For one example you might go look in a mirror. How so you say? Leading up to the election, you were in the barrel for Trump, big time. You called anybody that dared grumble about Trump a "Hillary supporter". Now you are showing bleeding heart liberal on one of your guy's greatest stands. How's that for hypocrisy?
The only reason that theology was ever introduced into this topic is to show the hypocrisy of some here. I often see references to Christianity on this forum but when it comes to costing them something that goes away fast for some of them.
Believe me when I say I am a well known hard * and don't fall for sob stories well at all. I repossessed cars for 15 years and I have heard them all. I only got conned once by a women with a baby that I know of.
As far as the deportation of all of them goes it is never going to happen. It is an impossibility. It would start an armed revolution within our ranks. We would have the War of Northern Aggression . You could never deport 10 to 30 million people without armed revolt. Those people have a lot of friends both regular and political. It ain't gonna happen. Therefore we have to look at the best alternative. What is that? There is at least one state that has a good idea in my opinion. They have a drivers license for illegals that is marked so they cannot vote but they can drive and get insurance.
.
It is a proven fact that illegal aliens who received Driver's licenses in one of several states that issue them to illegal aliens (new Mexico), the Secretary of state tried to contact 23,000 "future insurance buyers", and exactly 12 were still at the address on the license.
Further research on those missing individuals found that they all had new licenses in other states, and de facto citizenship as well, since the other states took the nM license as proof of citizenship.
Yeah, what a great idea; like charging for concert tickets, but not fencing it in.
quote:Originally posted by jerrywh818
The only reason that theology was ever introduced into this topic is to show the hypocrisy of some here. I often see references to Christianity on this forum but when it comes to costing them something that goes away fast for some of them.
Believe me when I say I am a well known hard * and don't fall for sob stories well at all. I repossessed cars for 15 years and I have heard them all. I only got conned once by a women with a baby that I know of.
As far as the deportation of all of them goes it is never going to happen. It is an impossibility. It would start an armed revolution within our ranks. We would have the War of Northern Aggression . You could never deport 10 to 30 million people without armed revolt. Those people have a lot of friends both regular and political. It ain't gonna happen. Therefore we have to look at the best alternative. What is that? There is at least one state that has a good idea in my opinion. They have a drivers license for illegals that is marked so they cannot vote but they can drive and get insurance.
.
It is a proven fact that illegal aliens who received Driver's licenses in one of several states that issue them to illegal aliens (new Mexico), the Secretary of state tried to contact 23,000 "future insurance buyers", and exactly 12 were still at the address on the license.
Further research on those missing individuals found that they all had new licenses in other states, and de facto citizenship as well, since the other states took the nM license as proof of citizenship.
Yeah, what a great idea; like charging for concert tickets, but not fencing it in.
Give it up,...you can't argue with liberals.
I'll be damned if I get talked down to by a hypocrite bozo that would have to be 253 years old to have worked as many jobs as he claims he has. If I want to hear a sermon, I'll go to church.
I don't care what their situation was back home, nor do I care what it is now. If they are here illegally, kick their * out. If they want to go through the proper channels, and get their citizenships the right way, fine, but they wouldn't be called illegals then, would they?
I'll be damned if I get talked down to by a hypocrite bozo that would have to be 253 years old to have worked as many jobs as he claims he has. If I want to hear a sermon, I'll go to church.
Yep, and crickets
I don't care what their situation was back home, nor do I care what it is now. If they are here illegally, kick their * out. If they want to go through the proper channels, and get their citizenships the right way, fine, but they wouldn't be called illegals then, would they?
I'll be damned if I get talked down to by a hypocrite bozo that would have to be 253 years old to have worked as many jobs as he claims he has. If I want to hear a sermon, I'll go to church.
LMAO[:D]
All the name calling and unsubstantiated accusations about me does not contribute to the solution one bit. You must have run out of logic.
For anybody's information I'm 80 years old and worked every single job I said I did. Furthermore I came out fairly well off. Some people only know how to do one thing well. That doesn't mean everybody is like that.
I'm still working. Sounds like I hit a nerve on some one, or two.
Pic the low hanging and rotten fruit first. You'll be amazed at the amount of self deportation if a hefty fine and or jail time was involved. (and reparations) What's left will eventually fall or get eaten by the birds.
Yeah I voted for Trump and supported him. That doesn't mean I believe in everything he proposed. He was the best choice of what we had to choose from. If all the illegals could be deported that might be fine but I,m saying it isn't going to happen and therefore there must be some other solution.
All the name calling and unsubstantiated accusations about me does not contribute to the solution one bit. You must have run out of logic.
For anybody's information I'm 80 years old and worked every single job I said I did. Furthermore I came out fairly well off. Some people only know how to do one thing well. That doesn't mean everybody is like that.
I'm still working. Sounds like I hit a nerve on some one, or two.
Yes you did hit a Nerve or two. A very Anti American Nerve, or two![:(!]
Yeah I voted for Trump and supported him. That doesn't mean I believe in everything he proposed. He was the best choice of what we had to choose from. If all the illegals could be deported that might be fine but I,m saying it isn't going to happen and therefore there must be some other solution.
All the name calling and unsubstantiated accusations about me does not contribute to the solution one bit. You must have run out of logic.
For anybody's information I'm 80 years old and worked every single job I said I did. Furthermore I came out fairly well off. Some people only know how to do one thing well. That doesn't mean everybody is like that.
I'm still working. Sounds like I hit a nerve on some one, or two.
Did you hit the nerves in Jesus Jaspar's hands when you decided to hang him from a cross in your OP?
Yet their home countries, where these fine and devout folks are an overwhelming majority, are without exception 3rd World crapholes, full of multi-generational poverty, crime, and corruption at every level.
Who is causing those countries to be such cruddy places? Roving bands of Norwegians? Icelandic separatists? Belgian polygamists?
I have this crazy idea that these people belong to a culture that has never formed a successful, functioning 1st World society anywhere on the race of the planet. Coming here, and continuing to follow that failed culture simply brings those problems with them.
It is a false choice to claim that we have to deport all the illegal immigrants, or just live with them. Stop enabling their remaining. Require E-Verify be used. Clamp down on remittances that support the non-functional countries they left behind. Stop supporting their prolific breeding with endless public subsidies. They will self-deport when the gravy train ends, and if they are as wonderful and family oriented as some like to claim, they will take their spawn with them.
I am an immigrant myself, came here 1993 "legally" got my citizenship 2000.
I said many times don't feed the squirrels. That is the most logical solution. I also think that If we don't close the border and stop the drugs this country will end up the same as those crap holes some of you described. By the way, I never preached to anybody, my post was directed at anybody who professed to be a christian. Apparently that does not apply to Whelen so don't be afraid Whelen your safe. Rant on.
Anybody else have any intelligent solutions?
Well so far it seems like Dads3040 has come up with the most logical solution in my opinion. E verify is a good idea in my opinion. The only thing that 35 Whelen has proven is he, resents Christianity, has a bad temper a big mouth and no answer so he attacks the messenger. A real bad *.
I said many times don't feed the squirrels. That is the most logical solution. I also think that If we don't close the border and stop the drugs this country will end up the same as those crap holes some of you described. By the way, I never preached to anybody, my post was directed at anybody who professed to be a christian. Apparently that does not apply to Whelen so don't be afraid Whelen your safe. Rant on.
Anybody else have any intelligent solutions?
Jerry, don't you believe that God helps you if you try to lead an honest life and treat people as you would be treated?
Maybe God helps you for good behavior as in your question. Can't say for sure but I do think that the world is set up by God so that that those kinds of actions are self rewarding. In other words a person will reap what they sow. I have been accused of being religious but religion is denominational in my opinion. I believe much like Jefferson did. I don't have much use for man made denominations. Can't find that in the bible either. Man has turned Christianity and at least most other theologies into a profit making and power grabbing business and most intelligent people are getting wise to that. That is why so many resent any mention of a God. There has to be some kind of intelligent direction in the universe. Nothing else makes any sense at all.
Almost everybody confuses the subject of a supreme power with religion. I don't think it is the same thing.
I studied a lot of primitive people and all but one tribe Had some belief of a creator. However that doesn't prove there is one. The proof is what is, for anybody who thinks a bout it.
I'm really not trying to sell the idea. I have nothing to gain or loose. I'm just thinking out loud and you asked.
E-verify and Jail employers that knowingly hire illegals and if we need workers use the Visa system and they go home when the work is done so they can be eligible to come back if we need help. Main point is they have to leave their families home so we don't have to support them. American's and Legal immigrant need our support not law-breakers
SoreShoulder
Maybe God helps you for good behavior as in your question. Can't say for sure but I do think that the world is set up by God so that that those kinds of actions are self rewarding. In other words a person will reap what they sow. I have been accused of being religious but religion is denominational in my opinion. I believe much like Jefferson did. I don't have much use for man made denominations. Can't find that in the bible either. Man has turned Christianity and at least most other theologies into a profit making and power grabbing business and most intelligent people are getting wise to that. That is why so many resent any mention of a God. There has to be some kind of intelligent direction in the universe. Nothing else makes any sense at all.
Almost everybody confuses the subject of a supreme power with religion. I don't think it is the same thing.
I studied a lot of primitive people and all but one tribe Had some belief of a creator. However that doesn't prove there is one. The proof is what is, for anybody who thinks a bout it.
I'm really not trying to sell the idea. I have nothing to gain or loose. I'm just thinking out loud and you asked.
What I mean is, if they're all so saintly, how'd they lose the country?
What I am saying is not all of them should be thrown out. Are you people saying all of them should go? I am aware of all the problems that have been stated here. I have had some of them myself. The bad ones have to go. If they all have to go we better get started because there are between 14,000,000 and 30,000,000 of them. In the meantime we will be fighting a revolution. It Ain't gonna happen folks. Get Real. Some of them are more patriotic than we are. The worst part is the Drugs. The drugs have to be stopped no matter what.
MERCURY. I'm for the wall.
Mogley98
They don't have to live in my yard. There are places here where you can't see a house for 50 miles or more.
Throw them all out and let the good ones back in,if they respect our laws.
How long would it take? What would it cost?
About April I took a trip to Woodburn Oregon. I passed by the high school when it was letting out. I only saw 1 kid that was not Hispanic out of about 50 or 60. those kids are all American citizens but most of their parents are probably not. I'm not making the case one way or another. I'm just pointing out the situation.
Nobody here that I am aware of said those people were all saintly.
I am always struck in conversations about illegal immigrants from somewhere/anywhere South of us to hear how they are such wonderful people, a credit to the human race, and a positive factor in this country, even as a relatively small segment of the population.
Yet their home countries, where these fine and devout folks are an overwhelming majority, are without exception 3rd World crapholes, full of multi-generational poverty, crime, and corruption at every level.
Who is causing those countries to be such cruddy places? Roving bands of Norwegians? Icelandic separatists? Belgian polygamists?
I have this crazy idea that these people belong to a culture that has never formed a successful, functioning 1st World society anywhere on the race of the planet. Coming here, and continuing to follow that failed culture simply brings those problems with them.
It is a false choice to claim that we have to deport all the illegal immigrants, or just live with them. Stop enabling their remaining. Require E-Verify be used. Clamp down on remittances that support the non-functional countries they left behind. Stop supporting their prolific breeding with endless public subsidies. They will self-deport when the gravy train ends, and if they are as wonderful and family oriented as some like to claim, they will take their spawn with them.
You just stated most of the ideas I have been espousing for years. Even most folks that I associate with think I am too much of a hard *,....especially on the 'legal child' issue.
My response is much like yours. If you want to maintain the family unit, take your kid back to your mother country. If you want him/her to be raised in America put them up for adoption.
The parents that came here illegally are the ones responsible for the mess the kids are in,....not me. Breaking the law can have some unpleasant results, and it should.
Well so far it seems like Dads3040 has come up with the most logical solution in my opinion. E verify is a good idea in my opinion. The only thing that 35 Whelen has proven is he, resents Christianity, has a bad temper a big mouth and no answer so he attacks the messenger. A real bad *.
I said many times don't feed the squirrels. That is the most logical solution. I also think that If we don't close the border and stop the drugs this country will end up the same as those crap holes some of you described. By the way, I never preached to anybody, my post was directed at anybody who professed to be a christian. Apparently that does not apply to Whelen so don't be afraid Whelen your safe. Rant on.
Anybody else have any intelligent solutions?
I worship the same God that you do, the difference being that I don't force that belief on anyone. If someone wants to listen to my understanding of faith, they are welcome. You seem to think that your personal relationship with God rests on a level higher than others.
You claim that I have a temper, a big mouth, that I resent God, and that I have no answers.
What I have is the understanding that it's very, very difficult to portray emotion in simple text.
Temper? Nope. Context.
You claim that I have a big mouth. What I have is an opinion. If that qualifies a person to have your definition of a big mouth, I expect to receive my membership card to that exclusive club called "everyone else" shortly.
Big mouth?
You claim that I resent Christianity. You couldn't be more wrong, because at this point in life, my faith has never been stronger. What I don't have is the belief that I'm perfect, because I know that isn't true.
I resent Christianity? Not to your knowledge, I don't, because you simply don't know. Here's a hint from me personally: I worship the same God you do.
You claim that I have no answers. The answer I have is the one you don't want to hear, so you hop on the morality pedestal, in an attempt to make me look bad. Good luck.
Jerry, based on your above comment directed at me, I'd say we're both due to brush up on the Christian view of who should and should not be judgemental, because in God's eyes, we're equal. I hope you're able to accept that fact.
Regarding cost, this is a law enforcement issue and not an economic one. How would anyone react if, after someone in their family was killed, the police showed up & said "it costs alot of money to find the guy & put him in jail - plus, most people never kill again ... so what's the point?"
Immigration laws exist to benefit the US and its citizens, not the people trying to legally immigrate. That seems to be forgotten these days. It's not about being fair to the poor fellow trying to get in. There's nothing fair about taking in a Cuban while tossing out a Haitian who floats ashore in FL, nor accepting a "political prisoner" from El Salvador while rejecting an "economic refugee" from the same country. All the Italian, German, Irish that came here - they came to benefit a building a country, to feed the economic machine.
Has anyone noticed the new popular term - migration, or migrant? The concept of a person crossing from one country to the next, that a country granting permission to enter is entirely left out using that term. It's deliberate and I expect we'll hear it more often.
Let's put it a different way. Lets take a head count. How many here think we can extradite 14,000,000 men women and kids?
How long would it take? What would it cost?
About April I took a trip to Woodburn Oregon. I passed by the high school when it was letting out. I only saw 1 kid that was not Hispanic out of about 50 or 60. those kids are all American citizens but most of their parents are probably not. I'm not making the case one way or another. I'm just pointing out the situation.
Nobody here that I am aware of said those people were all saintly.
Whether we think we can or not, if we don't try, it won't happen.
Financially? Well the ill gotten gains by the illegals should be returned or reimbursed by the illegal. Fair enough. Like drug seizures fund that dept.
And again, once word is out, they will self deport. So after the first 10,000 the next 12 million will be easy. And that is a good start, then go after the lawyers who aid and abet. And families who aid and abet.
Participate in murder? Same deal. Get real tough. Accomplices need to be fined, jailed etc.
Let's put it a different way. Lets take a head count. How many here think we can extradite 14,000,000 men women and kids?
How long would it take? What would it cost?
About April I took a trip to Woodburn Oregon. I passed by the high school when it was letting out. I only saw 1 kid that was not Hispanic out of about 50 or 60. those kids are all American citizens but most of their parents are probably not. I'm not making the case one way or another. I'm just pointing out the situation.
Nobody here that I am aware of said those people were all saintly.
Seriously?
Enforce the Laws already in place and 75% of them would go home!
Only the Felons would be left!