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Carry,... cocked & locked Y/N Why?
Irish 8802
Member Posts: 1,301 ✭✭✭
Just got a Kimber Pro carry,pros and cons of c/l. thanks.
Comments
And fiery auto crashes
Some will die in hot pursuit
While sifting through my ashes
Some will fall in love with life
And drink it from a fountain
That is pouring like an avalanche
Coming down the mountain
I don't see any issue with it. That is how it was designed to be carried.
+100
My Glock is always ready to rock
why let the pucker factor come into play?
+ eleventy billion.
GLOCKS ROCK!
There is never another question about safety or readiness.
An unloaded gun is useless. A gun is not loaded unless it is ready to fire.
These are all my opinions and not worth a durn!! [8D]
When in doubt, go read the patent.
You dont have to worry about it with a revolver.
or a sa/da Beretta or sig, glock if you must...
Although I must say, that first double action trigger pull is something you need to practice. but if you carry, your pistol should have one in the pipe. guys running at you arrive quickly.
I don't see any issue with it. That is how it was designed to be carried.
+1000
Not doing so could very well cost you your life. If you are not comfortable carrying a 1911 this way, look for another carry gun.
quote:Originally posted by dennisnielsen
My Glock is always ready to rock
why let the pucker factor come into play?
+ eleventy billion.
GLOCKS ROCK!
[xx(]
edit: can't see carrying a practically empty gun if you need it in a hurry......
I don't see any issue with it. That is how it was designed to be carried.
Yep.
quote:Originally posted by Mr. Perfect
I don't see any issue with it. That is how it was designed to be carried.
Yep.
Not even close to being correct, but what did JMB know?
quote:Originally posted by lt496
quote:Originally posted by Mr. Perfect
I don't see any issue with it. That is how it was designed to be carried.
Yep.
Not even close to being correct, but what did JMB know?
dadgumit, If'n I'm that wrong show me how.
And fiery auto crashes
Some will die in hot pursuit
While sifting through my ashes
Some will fall in love with life
And drink it from a fountain
That is pouring like an avalanche
Coming down the mountain
quote:Originally posted by dennisnielsen
My Glock is always ready to rock
why let the pucker factor come into play?
+ eleventy billion.
GLOCKS ROCK!
yup.
And fiery auto crashes
Some will die in hot pursuit
While sifting through my ashes
Some will fall in love with life
And drink it from a fountain
That is pouring like an avalanche
Coming down the mountain
quote:Originally posted by iceracerx
quote:Originally posted by lt496
quote:Originally posted by Mr. Perfect
I don't see any issue with it. That is how it was designed to be carried.
Yep.
Not even close to being correct, but what did JMB know?
dadgumit, If'n I'm that wrong show me how.
Patent US1070582
Page 2
Right hand column
Paragraph starts around 100 and runs to page 3.
quote:Originally posted by Mr. Perfect
quote:Originally posted by iceracerx
quote:Originally posted by lt496
quote:Originally posted by Mr. Perfect
I don't see any issue with it. That is how it was designed to be carried.
Yep.
Not even close to being correct, but what did JMB know?
dadgumit, If'n I'm that wrong show me how.
Patent US1070582
Page 2
Right hand column
Paragraph starts around 100 and runs to page 3.
perhaps you're referring to page 3 beginning at line 98 continuing to page 4 line 17? In this section it says it is designed TO be carried cocked and locked, counter to previous designs which did not permit the gun to be so readied.
http://www.google.com/patents/about?id=bRNgAAAAEBAJ&dq=1070582&safe=strict
And fiery auto crashes
Some will die in hot pursuit
While sifting through my ashes
Some will fall in love with life
And drink it from a fountain
That is pouring like an avalanche
Coming down the mountain
JMB was probably right, but then parts have come a long way since 19?? when the patent was applied for.
KC
I don't see any issue with it. That is how it was designed to be carried.
Nope. That's a myth. It wasn't designed to be carried that way...by Browning or anyone else.
The manual safety wasn't Browning's idea. The first eight pistols that were submitted to the Ordnance Board didn't even have manual safeties. That part was added on request of the US Cavalry so that the mounted trooper could safely reholster the gun in order to free both hands up when he found himself tryin' to hang onto a frightened, unruly horse. Even in those ancient times, the boys understood that a
man under stress is likely to forget to remove his finger from the trigger before jamming the piece into its holster...a point that Gaston Glock apparently either failed to consider, or chose to ignore.
So...The thumb safety is there for reholstering...not carrying. The gun was designed so that it can be carried cocked and locked, but not specifically to be. It was designed to be carried in any one of several modes, at the choice of the owner. Even Condition zero is safe...or at least as safe as a loaded gun can be.
Another point that will probably bring on howls of warning is the fact that the half-cock is a safety, and is clearly referenced as such in the 1910 patents by Browning himself, along with instruction on the technique for lowering the hammer to the safety position with one hand...which also addresses another "Never do" warning. So, if Browning had any intent at all on how to carry the pistol...which is doubtful...it was to carry it on half-cock. He utilized the captive half-cock on all his other exposed hammer guns...so there's at least strong evidence of it.
I don't see any issue with it. That is how it was designed to be carried.
See above. No question about it. Mine stays that way.
quote:Originally posted by Mr. Perfect
I don't see any issue with it. That is how it was designed to be carried.
Nope. That's a myth. It wasn't designed to be carried that way...by Browning or anyone else.
The manual safety wasn't Browning's idea. The first eight pistols that were submitted to the Ordnance Board didn't even have manual safeties. That part was added on request of the US Cavalry so that the mounted trooper could safely reholster the gun in order to free both hands up when he found himself tryin' to hang onto a frightened, unruly horse. Even in those ancient times, the boys understood that a
man under stress is likely to forget to remove his finger from the trigger before jamming the piece into its holster...a point that Gaston Glock apparently either failed to consider, or chose to ignore.
So...The thumb safety is there for reholstering...not carrying. The gun was designed so that it can be carried cocked and locked, but not specifically to be. It was designed to be carried in any one of several modes, at the choice of the owner. Even Condition zero is safe...or at least as safe as a loaded gun can be.
Another point that will probably bring on howls of warning is the fact that the half-cock is a safety, and is clearly referenced as such in the 1910 patents by Browning himself, along with instruction on the technique for lowering the hammer to the safety position with one hand...which also addresses another "Never do" warning. So, if Browning had any intent at all on how to carry the pistol...which is doubtful...it was to carry it on half-cock. He utilized the captive half-cock on all his other exposed hammer guns...so there's at least strong evidence of it.
Those are good points; however, I am not a fan of "half-cock" position. It is quicker for me to draw, lower the safety with my thumb, and aim in a smooth motion. Rather than draw, reach my thumb up to the hammer, and pulling it back. It does not seem as natural to me. On the other hand I can see where it may have been more natural for someone of that era that may have been used to a single action revolver. It may have been and after thought, but he did update it with the safety himself.
Condition 0
Empty Chamber loaded magazine in the gun.
Condition -1
Loaded magazine separate from gun.
Condition -2
Gun and magazine in a zippered case.
Condition -3
Cased firearm in buckled laptop case.
Condition -4
Buckled laptop case in locked vehicle.
Condition -4 is still better than a gun sitting in the safe at home.
Not until the cavalry requested it. The 1911 was an assignment. No more and no less. Browning also had a lot of help and input from a team of Colt's top engineers, so he didn't do it alone.
The first ones submitted had no manual safeties. Six were retrofitted and resubmitted. The modification was approved and the rest is history. I have a picture of one of the remaining two 1910 models sans thumb safety. I'll find it and post it.
No argument that half-cocked isn't a good way to carry, much less the best way. The only point is that it was...by design and intent...a de-facto safety.
Assuming the original captive half cock notch, when the hammer is in that position, hammer and sear are interlocked, and neither one can move by pulling the trigger. Even the trigger is frozen, and the entire fire control group effectively disabled. If that doesn't meet the requirements for a safety...I'd like to know what does.
Stand by. I'll go find the picture.
"mmmmmnot yet, Mose. We need a safety on it to make sure that the troops don't kill their horses, and make it lock the slide while you're at it so it won't get pushed out of battery. Dirty old battlefields bein' hard on equipment and all...it might not go back into battery when the pistol is reaquired. Bad show.
Photo courtesy of Charles W. Clawson
quote:Originally posted by Mr. Perfect
I don't see any issue with it. That is how it was designed to be carried.
+1000
Not doing so could very well cost you your life. If you are not comfortable carrying a 1911 this way, look for another carry gun.
Great advise^^^
When I carried a 1911 I carried it C&L. I carry a G26 or a revolver now but every once in a while I go back to the 1911. When I do its carried C&L. That is the way it was made to be carried.
The 1911 should be carried in a good holster as any SA Pistol should be.
quote:Originally posted by Mr. Perfect
I don't see any issue with it. That is how it was designed to be carried.
+100
+1000[;)]
Civilians should be careful to not try to act like cops, or Rambo, or Chuck Norris. Besides, if there is a shooting, authorities and courts will be influenced by such details. I would rather impress them with my apparent reluctance to use deadly force.
C-2 also greatly reduces the possibility of the hammer being damaged by a side blow because it's supported on the sides. Not a small consideration if the going gets rough.
Cocking the hammer with the gun still in the holster makes it faster and less fumble-prone than trying to cock it after the presentation...and is surprisingly fast if practiced a bit before it's needed.
The 1911 was designed to be carried in several ways. Like Conditions 2 and 3, Condition One is an option...not a mandate.
quote:Originally posted by Mr. Perfect
I don't see any issue with it. That is how it was designed to be carried.
Nope. That's a myth. It wasn't designed to be carried that way...by Browning or anyone else.
The manual safety wasn't Browning's idea. The first eight pistols that were submitted to the Ordnance Board didn't even have manual safeties. That part was added on request of the US Cavalry so that the mounted trooper could safely reholster the gun in order to free both hands up when he found himself tryin' to hang onto a frightened, unruly horse. Even in those ancient times, the boys understood that a
man under stress is likely to forget to remove his finger from the trigger before jamming the piece into its holster...a point that Gaston Glock apparently either failed to consider, or chose to ignore.
So...The thumb safety is there for reholstering...not carrying. The gun was designed so that it can be carried cocked and locked, but not specifically to be. It was designed to be carried in any one of several modes, at the choice of the owner. Even Condition zero is safe...or at least as safe as a loaded gun can be.
Another point that will probably bring on howls of warning is the fact that the half-cock is a safety, and is clearly referenced as such in the 1910 patents by Browning himself, along with instruction on the technique for lowering the hammer to the safety position with one hand...which also addresses another "Never do" warning. So, if Browning had any intent at all on how to carry the pistol...which is doubtful...it was to carry it on half-cock. He utilized the captive half-cock on all his other exposed hammer guns...so there's at least strong evidence of it.
As to that being a myth, I will direct you to the patent link above. You even contradict yourself here, stating that it was an optional method. So, either it was designed to be carried that way or it wasn't. The patent filed by JMB says it was.
Now, you are correct about him not originally designing the gun with a safety. He added it at the request of the military like you say. Since then all of them have had a safety in which cocked and locked carry is not only possible, but part of the design intent as stated by JMB himself.
I read it in the patent, but what do I know. JMB was probably lying or under duress when he wrote that. [:o)]
And fiery auto crashes
Some will die in hot pursuit
While sifting through my ashes
Some will fall in love with life
And drink it from a fountain
That is pouring like an avalanche
Coming down the mountain
quote:Originally posted by JohnT
quote:Originally posted by Mr. Perfect
I don't see any issue with it. That is how it was designed to be carried.
Nope. That's a myth. It wasn't designed to be carried that way...by Browning or anyone else.
The manual safety wasn't Browning's idea. The first eight pistols that were submitted to the Ordnance Board didn't even have manual safeties. That part was added on request of the US Cavalry so that the mounted trooper could safely reholster the gun in order to free both hands up when he found himself tryin' to hang onto a frightened, unruly horse. Even in those ancient times, the boys understood that a
man under stress is likely to forget to remove his finger from the trigger before jamming the piece into its holster...a point that Gaston Glock apparently either failed to consider, or chose to ignore.
So...The thumb safety is there for reholstering...not carrying. The gun was designed so that it can be carried cocked and locked, but not specifically to be. It was designed to be carried in any one of several modes, at the choice of the owner. Even Condition zero is safe...or at least as safe as a loaded gun can be.
Another point that will probably bring on howls of warning is the fact that the half-cock is a safety, and is clearly referenced as such in the 1910 patents by Browning himself, along with instruction on the technique for lowering the hammer to the safety position with one hand...which also addresses another "Never do" warning. So, if Browning had any intent at all on how to carry the pistol...which is doubtful...it was to carry it on half-cock. He utilized the captive half-cock on all his other exposed hammer guns...so there's at least strong evidence of it.
As to that being a myth, I will direct you to the patent link above. You even contradict yourself here, stating that it was an optional method. So, either it was designed to be carried that way or it wasn't. The patent filed by JMB says it was.
Now, you are correct about him not originally designing the gun with a safety. He added it at the request of the military like you say. Since then all of them have had a safety in which cocked and locked carry is not only possible, but part of the design intent as stated by JMB himself.
I read it in the patent, but what do I know. JMB was probably lying or under duress when he wrote that. [:o)]
Patent agent eh?
You read the words (even if you didn't get the page No. correct) and you "walk away" with the understanding that a 1911 was DESIGNED to be carried C&L in ANYTHING other than a combat situation by soldiers for short (or long) periods of time? You appear to be neglecting military SOP which would cover when C&L was acceptable and it was far from 100% of the time.
Example? MP/SP/AP carried the 1911A1 sidearm holstered, chamber empty, hammer down while on duty.