The unmitigated gall of some people is a real head shaker.

bpost

My neighbor has sheep, he is a retired school teacher.  This spring we were having issues with his sheep getting out and decimating the deer corn piles, mineral blocks and trampling the food plots.  Two week ago they went through 800 pounds of corn in about 12 days.  trampled the food plots all to hell and made a mess.  I called Dave and offered to help find the hole in the fence.  He said "we have looked for the hole and can't find it".  I took the Honda 500 out and found the hole in 15 seconds.  Dave had "fixed" it with a length of 14/2 Romex.  the sheep pushed right through it, like a gate.  So I got fence wire, some posts had a couple of friends help patch this fence.  Dave and his wife live like slobs and of course being retired they have no time to do ANYTHING right but expect me to figure out their fence problems for them and then fix it.

Today, I was out mowing around the food plots.  I can't mow because the damm sheep are eating all the corn.  The guys dumped a 4X8 trailer load of corn there last Sunday, it is GONE.  I went back got the Honda and chased the sheep out with it.  They went to the hole we fixed and seemed flustered but headed down the hill where I could not go with the Honda.

I called Dave, I said "I think they are getting out down by Kathy's pond.  He said "Oh, we are letting them out and thought they were behaving".  I was incredulous. "Dave, they ate an entire trailer load of corn, you have to keep your sheep on your land and out of our food plots."  He seemed surprised saying "we thought they were behaving".  Well, they are they are "behaving" they are acting like sheep and going beeline to my food plots eating my plots, corn and mineral licks.

This idiot is letting his sheep out of his pasture ON PURPOSE, ignoring them and expecting them to not act like sheep.  He thinks they will be staying on their property when the sheep know corn is piled high only 500 yards away.

Grrrrrrr, this is really bad.  The corn is expensive, the sheep are not mine and he is LETTING them out of his pasture to free graze on my land.  The messed up thought processes of some people amaze me.  Oh, imagine this they are Obama, Biden lovers......

Brookwood

I would force myself to start learning to like mutton!  

mac10

load um up and head um put  vidieo will protect ya

Ricci.Wright

Get a stock trailer. Dump some corn in the stock trailer with the ramp down. When the trailer is full of sheep close it up and go for a long drive. 

mogley98

I like the first answer sounds like his "free range" sheep are now free for you

4205raymond

bpost, me thinks you have been nice long enough. Almost time to fire up the grill and throw on some lamb chops.--------------------------Ray

chme

Sheep?  What sheep?

4205raymond

KenK/84Bravo said:

Not me Ray.

Bruce.

I'm the guy that "Had" an aggresive dog problem.

Ken, hit me before your post. Maybe there is still hope for me. Getting old is no fun.--Ray

grdad45

Last deer season we had a problem with people's yard dogs chasing deer on one end of our lease. I rounded a curve on the road to one of my stands and saw 4 dogs (3 pitts and 1 big cur) attacking a small doe.  I pulled my 45 auto and fired toward them, and they took off. Two days later, I'm in my stand and here they come again, trailing some does that passed by 15 minutes earlier. Three of them failed to go home that morning. We pay thousands of dollars to hunt on that land, only to have loose dogs ruin it for us! We talked to the sheriff, and he talked to the dog owners, who claimed that their dogs wouldn't chase deer!! The result is: Dog Gone! The law is on our side, loose domestic animals are considered feral here.
I hope we don't have that trouble this season. We get no pleasure doing what we have to do.

nononsense

I'm not a lawyer but it seems to me that maybe the County Attorney should step in and send an envoy to discuss legal actions. Failing that, Certified letters containing bills for the cost of the feed and salt blocks is certainly acceptable. Push comes to shove, pay the consultation fee to a good lawyer to find out what your options are.

Otherwise, I like mutton, too... What's the wool market like these days?

Best.

bustedknee

Someone said, "Good Fences Make Good neighbors".

Around here, It is something of a gentleman's understanding that a fence is half-and-half.  Meaning, if it is between my house and your house we should each pay 50% of the cost of the fence and each has a 50% say in the design.  Some people disagree with this thought.

But, ideally, one person says, "I think I'll put up a fence to keep my kids and pets out of your yard." 

The other guy says, "Great idea, especially since I just reseeded.  Make it a white picket fence and send me half the bill".

Both are friendly; both benefit, and they stay friends.

However, on the property next to mine is a section with two parallel fences.  One owner, (un-named) feels 3 strands of electric fence will keep his livestock in.  But he is lax about fence maintenance and clearing vegetation which shorts out the fence.

The other owner, only a foot away, has installed a woven fence.  Problem solved.

Since reasoning with the guy, in your case, has not worked, document the number of times, his sheep got out, the cost of your losses, including your time and present him the bill, backed by the promise of a lawsuit. (You cannot, try as you may, just cannot get along with some people).  You may get some satisfaction but generally, your relationship with your neighbor will erode even further.

The option I like best is to put up your own fence, complete with "NO TRESPASSING" signs  Your fence should keep out, not just your neighbor's livestock but everyone's livestock..  

How miles of fence are we talking about?

montanajoe

If I write what I'm thinking, I'd ban myself.   
Just dang!!!

select-fire

Shot a deer a few yrs back and called my buddies house. His son was home and helped me load it. Took it to the processor. He was cleaning a hog. Buddies son says... that is a nice wild hog.... Man who shot it was standing there and snickered.  told him that is not a wild hog . Man says the neighbors hog kept getting in his garden ..so he shot it with his 30/06... It won't eat the maters anymore.

chollagardens

I had a problem like that but it was cows not sheep. It was a five year problem and it got ugly. Then I found out about the Brand Inspector. Problem solved. I wonder if sheep come under the same regulations?

bpost

Flying Clay Disk said:

You might want to check your State laws.  Edit - Here are the fencing and livestock laws for the State of Ohio which is where you are, correct?

https://nationalaglawcenter.org/wp-content/uploads/assets/fencelaw/ohio.pdf

The good news in your situation is; Ohio is not an "Open Range" state (where you are required to keep animals out, not the other way around).  HOWEVER, there are also some caveats to this which you should be aware of, so you need to read ALL the laws, not just the livestock laws.  Here are some relevant examples for you:

951.02 Animals not to be permitted to run at large

No person, who is the owner or keeper of horses, mules, cattle, bison, sheep, goats, swine, llamas, alpacas, or geese, shall permit them to run at large in the public road, highway, street, lane, or alley, or upon unenclosed land, or cause the animals to be herded, kept, or detained for the purpose of grazing on premises other than those owned or lawfully occupied by the owner or keeper of the animals.

951.10 Damages; prima facie evidence of negligence

(A) The owner or keeper of an animal described in section 951.02 of the Revised Code, who negligently permits it to run at large in violation of that section, is liable for all damages resulting from injury, death, or loss to person or property caused by the animal in any of the places specified in section 951.02 of the Revised Code or upon the premises of another without reference to the fence that may enclose the premises.

951.11 Confining animal found at large; publication of notice; lien

A person finding an animal at large in violation of section 951.02 of the Revised Code, may, and a law enforcement officer of a county, township, city, or village, on view or information, shall, take and confine that animal, promptly giving notice of the taking and confining of the animal to the owner or keeper, if known, and, if not known, by publishing a notice describing the animal at least once in a newspaper of general circulation in the county, township, city, or village where the animal was found. If the owner or keeper does not appear and claim the animal and pay the compensation prescribed in section 951.13 of the Revised Code for so taking, advertising, and keeping it within ten days from the date of the notice, that person or the county shall have a lien for that compensation, and the animal may be sold at public auction as States’ Fence Laws STATE OF OHIO 3 provided in section 1311.49 of the Revised Code. The residue of the proceeds of sale shall be paid and deposited by the treasurer in the general fund of the county.

951.13 Compensation and expenses recoverable from owner or keeper

The person or county, township, city, or village whose law enforcement officer takes an animal running at large in violation of section 951.02 of the Revised Code is entitled to receive from the owner or keeper of the animal the following compensation:

(A) For taking and advertising each horse, mule, head of cattle, bison, swine, sheep, goat, llama, alpaca, or goose, five dollars;

(B) Reasonable expenses actually incurred for keeping each animal described in division (A) of this section.

Compensation for taking, advertising, and keeping a single herd or flock shall not exceed fifty dollars when the flock or herd belongs to one person.

NOTE - Now, here is where the HOWEVER part comes in (and why you need to read ALL the laws...

971.071 Sharing of cost

Notwithstanding any other provision in this chapter, an owner of land as defined in division (D)(2) of section 971.01 of the Revised Code is responsible for fifty per cent of the total cost of building and maintaining in good repair a partition fence between that owner and the owner of adjoining property unless a written agreement has been entered into under section 971.04 of the Revised Code.

NOTE - As you will see (when you read the link), Section 971.01(D)(2) you are likely an "owner" as defined in this section because the fence partitions your property from your neighbor, regardless of any other provision (as stated).

Fence and range laws can be complicated.  Every fence has a story, and it's usually a long one.  Many people see a fence and they just think "oh, it's just a fence".  I look at a fence and wonder things like "I wonder what the story is behind this fence?", or, "I wonder how many people died over this fence?".  I've had more than a couple disputes over fences around here too.  When I look at a fence along my property, I automatically assume I am 50% responsible for that fence.  Others have a real hard time getting that through their head.  From their perspective, the fence was always there, so why should they pay for something.  Well, because that's the law.

The only thing more contested than fences is water.  As the old saying goes..."Whiskey's for drinkin'; an' Water is for Fightin'!"

Anyway, hope this helps.

I have helped with the property line fence several times and know the Ohio law on shared costs for property line fences.  At first I was not happy with the law but understand a lazy farmer would wait until his neighbor put up fence as he just drank Grog all day getting free fence that served him well.  To me it is no biggie to fix some fence line and the work is good for your soul.

What pisses me off is even after knowing his sheep were causing issues, damage and consuming my corn on my land he PURPOSEFULLY is letting them out untended expecting them to "behave".  I have had constant issues with his dogs running deer chasing chickens, some are dog gone now.  I have offered many times to help with the fence.  He is LAZY, his leaf licking bunny hugging Hillary loving wife won't allow trees to be trimmed or dead branches removed so they fall on the fence and I am back to square one.  All that is fine, it is something I can deal with; it is his letting them out in the first place that blows my mind.

bpost

The fence in question is probably 750 yards long my property line.  A busted fence happens,I'm happy to help fix and maintain it, it seems the right thing to do law or not.  His letting them out is the issue.  Many a time I have had to stop because his sheep are in the road and won't move.

It is gonna end one way or the other.

SCOUT5

grdad45 said:

I hope we don't have that trouble this season. We get no pleasure doing what we have to do.

You didn't do what you had to do you did what you wanted to do.   

Dogs chase things, it's what they do.  Did you talk to the owners of the dogs and ask them to keep the dogs restrained during deer season?    I've never understood this attitude from people over dogs chasing deer.  Deer are not cattle or other livestock.   I have no problem with someone shooting a dog that needs shot.   Chasing deer doesn't make the cut.   Until broken from the habit any dog with game drive will run deer.  Any dog, mine yours, pure breed mixed it doesn't matter.

SCOUT5

bpost said:

The fence in question is probably 750 yards long my property line.  A busted fence happens,I'm happy to help fix and maintain it, it seems the right thing to do law or not.  His letting them out is the issue.  Many a time I have had to stop because his sheep are in the road and won't move.

It is gonna end one way or the other.

I hope you find a remedy.   Trying to be a good neighbor means tolerating something now and then even helping out, which you've done, it also means taking responsibility for what is yours which it seems you neighbor hasn't.     Being a rural county there is probably someone in the county that addresses these issues. 

Butchdog2

Dogs without collars and not know, SSS.

spasmcreeksrun

past time to stop this chit on you stupid stuff......call the sheriff EVERYTIME one is on you and give yourself a history to get nasty...many years ago NE of here had one let his livestock run all over ....several neighbors got together and drove them down a twp road about 15 miles and left them on main street of a small town ..loaded horses up and went home ...NO more problems.....i had a neighbor rent pasture to a local feed lot and they had their beef out in my alfalfa EVERY day...finally called the feedlot and told them next day i was shooting every beef out on my crop.....and went to the owner they were renting from and told him he needed to get a GOOD tenant and he did ....problem solved

BobJudy

I live in a rural area with a few good neighbors. Farms get sold off because the farmers kids want nothing to do with working the land. Breaking up the acreage into 5 - 10 acre home sites is more profitable than selling it for farming. Now we have folks that want to escape from their city life by moving to the country. I don't blame them for wanting to do that but they make no effort to fit in with their neighbors. First thing they do is buy a dog and let it run loose. Any livestock they buy is also free to roam. Their kids don't respect fences and run their ATVs and snowmobiles wherever they please. A few years back we had an early snow and they decided our wheat field would be a good place to ride their new snowmobiles. Doesn't help the wheat to be ground down into the mud under the snow. Flippin' democrats probably figure that what I have they should get a share of too. How dare I have land and not let them use it. Bob

spasmcreeksrun

and to add to this is i have NEVER had a livestock owner offer to pay for the feed consumed....i do NOT owe them free feed and a profit 

grdad45

SCOUT5 said:

grdad45 said:

I hope we don't have that trouble this season. We get no pleasure doing what we have to do.

You didn't do what you had to do you did what you wanted to do.   

Dogs chase things, it's what they do.  Did you talk to the owners of the dogs and ask them to keep the dogs restrained during deer season?    I've never understood this attitude from people over dogs chasing deer.  Deer are not cattle or other livestock.   I have no problem with someone shooting a dog that needs shot.   Chasing deer doesn't make the cut.   Until broken from the habit any dog with game drive will run deer.  Any dog, mine yours, pure breed mixed it doesn't matter.

The Sheriff talked to the dog's owners. They denied that the dogs even came onto our lease. The dogs chase animals year-round, not just during deer season. We also suspect that those dog owners are the ones trespassing and turning our deer stands over. We have cameras set up to get proof of the people as well as the dogs. If they prove to be the perps, we will prosecute to the max!

bustedknee

Butchdog2 said:

Dogs without collars and not know, SSS.

SSS!     Shoot, Shovel, Shut-up.

I have a backhoe. 

I tell folks I can dig a grave in less than 12 minutes. 

And that is in the dark!

Then I laugh heartily (like I'm joking).

JimmyJack

In the State where I live,  you are responsible for the right hand half of the boundary fence as you look at the property line.  Even if you have no need for a fence and you neighbor does,  it is your responsibility for the right hand half.  If you refuse to do your half ,  he can do it and bill you.  Works for me!

nononsense

Flying Clay Disk said:

@nononsense - No need for the DA; it's all right there in the link I posted.  Describes cause, obligations on all parties and remedies for both

We were posting at the same time so I missed your post as I was writing. This is the first I've read it.

Best.

papernicker

 Does sheep taste like lamb?

hillbille

if they do happen to disapear in the near future, you may not want to post it in this thread.....

diver-rig

Good fences are one thing, purposely opening gates is hard to wrap my head around.

That is wild.

susie

Lazy and letting you repair the fence, scratch your head and mumble. Purposely letting them out to obtain your corn and plots, no Bueno. Time to send him a bill for the feed.

dreher

I think it is past time to turn into a major league pain in the butt.  Call the cops every time his sheep are out.  Call animal control every time his sheep are out.  Send a bill registered mail, return receipt requested on all damage to date.  Send a new bill every time they are out again and eat anything at all.  Go to small claims court.  Ask the township trustees (you are in Ohio right) have them decide which half of the line fence between you is yours.  Build a new fence on your half.  Call the township trustees again to put up his half of the fence and it goes on his tax bill.  I'm guessing 6 weeks of doing all these things and he will either get his fence fixed or sell his sheep.
Also, I can't remember what the law says in Ohio, but in some States you can load them up and take them to a livestock auction.  Have fun!!!!! 

chme

 Does sheep taste like lamb?
No,  Tastes like a sweater.

susie

https://forums.gunbroker.com/discussion/comment/11221729#Comment_11221729

Too funny.

griz

With credit to Johnny Cash....
A sheepherder came,
And put up a fence.
I saw him once,
But I ain't seen him since.
But if it's mutton you're wantin'
We got mutton to sell,
Cause we're cowpunchers
And mean as hell.

Ditch-Runner

I truly hate to dispose of a  animal just doing there thing   at the owners carelessness  
 just video and report it and have the local lawyer sue  for damages and hardships loss of property and food sources  have the lawyer tack on his 90% fee ( LOL ) 
       but then again  ( green font and in fun no way suggestion )  a fence of dead sheep  bodies on the property line would have a visual impact 

bpost

I pulled the game camera SD cards this morning and sure enough they devoured the corn over 4 days.  I am going to point out to Dave that Ohio law prevents them from free roaming their flock on other peoples land, they must be kept fenced on HIS property.  I sure can't blame the sheep, they are just doing what comes natural, they are gentle domesticated creatures.  The owner is 100% at fault for letting them out on purpose, untended to roam properties of several people eating lawn grass and being a nuisance flock blocking the roads.

Locust Fork

I'd be tempted to trap them when they get on my property and start keeping them.    Make him come ask for them and tell him the ones you have are wild ones that you captured on your own land and you don't know where "his" sheep are because he obviously has a fence and they couldn't possibly be the same sheep.

Wild Turkey

Back in the '60's in the Texas Panhandle some feral dogs got into a pen of calves dad had just received attacked several.  As a result the calves broke through a 5-wire fence and scattered several miles across the county.  Some got hit on a divided highway and some got killed on the Santa Fe right of way.
Santa Fe had agreed to pay for any livestock it hit that was contained in a "quality fence" and there was no question of that, but the lawyers had to bill some hours and found ways to make dad jump through hoops, etc before judge ordered them to pay.
That was mid July and calves had gotten hit in February.  Lawyers wanted them dug up and counted.  Judge said they'd been counted and for them to pay the claim immediately.

What the city lawyers didn't notice is that the dead calves weighed the same as their brothers -- they'd gained weight every time the lawyers pulled some nonsense on dad!

The sheriff knew it was feral dogs since the nose membrane on several was torn.  Wild canines go for the legs.
Time for a sheriff or lawyer to visit them and explain their responsibilities.   Maybe their insurance agent?

Paintball guns, different color each time you find them on your property.  Mark the "habitual" fence crossers.

BobJudy

Just out of curiosity, do you know anyone that shears sheep? If you do tell them you will give them the wool and afterwards see if your neighbor notices his bald sheep. If he does tell him it sounds like to much corn in their diet is causing their hair to fall out.  Bob

roswellnative

Go buy a bucket of red ink. 

Hang several ropes around with inked ropes. 

When the red sheep show up he will start being more careful. 

bpost

To drill down to the real issue is pretty straightforward. 

The hole in the fence, the one he said he could not find was EASY to find and fix.  His "repair" of this hole with a length of house wire was a joke, the sheep had been getting out for weeks.  My repair is still there and holding the sheep in, most of his fencing along the Township road and another landowner is a mess but seems to keep his sheep in his pasture.  The issue is the owner of the sheep has a pasture too small for the number of sheep he has.  It is over grazed.

He owns PLENTY of land (three times what I own) to make a new fall/winter pasture for his sheep.  He has that land planted with deer plots and of course does not want his sheep tearing up his deer plots so he was opening the gate letting them roam the area untended eating the neighbors lawns, my pastures and of course my corn piles.

If it happens again I will not be so neighborly and my "conversation" with him will be more of a stern lecture and a final warning before I call the sheriff and file a complaint.  I want to help, I will help fix any fence issues he has even if they are not on my property line.  But, his letting his sheep roam over hill and dale is going to end!