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quote:Originally posted by codenamepaul
KYplumber- In light of your current situation, I offer at my expense, a one year NRA membership and 25 dollar gift to the NRA-ILA (that'll get you a pocketknife)send me the info via e-mail.
Paul
Dang codenamepaul! You are a generous and good gun person.
Hey fox. Consider what I am about to print a matter of my philosophic opinion, and perhaps a way to clarify and reequip you and all of the readers with a new perspective. I will be using a post of your to demonstrate.
quote: KYFatboy, I had a moment to think about this and I probably shouldn't miss a chance to post this reply. This is in regards to your stated ability to continue buying, owning (and maybe selling)items covered by the so-called AWB during the 10 year period the AWB was in effect. There is a subtle nuance you, and probably NUMEROUS others, seem to miss. In 1994 a very powerful group of anti-gun US senators and representatives put together the very restrictive and falsely labeled "assault weapons ban". As you may know, that AWB prohibited numerous types of guns and accessories. And anti-gun President Bill Clinton of course signed that bill into law.
This is, of course a history lesson. I have nothing to add to this that the rest of us didn't already know.
quote:Now, just as a side note, generally speaking the law was a lie, was worthless, and did little or nothing to provide any extra safety or security to the American public.
A little side note of my own. The law was definitely a deceit of epic proportions, but probably not the way the rest of us think. The law was NOT worthless, as that would indicate that it did nothing good or bad, but it did do something bad, which is why it is counterproductive. It endangered the people of the US by taking away certain necessary firearms and support equipment, without considering that criminals would not obey, thereby making the people victims. Political motivation to make the people dependent on the system for protection led to this conclusion, which was diabolic and evil.
quote:Reason being that the AWB banned something that 99.9% of American gun owners are ALREADY banned from owning; and that is a TRUE assault weapon.
No it didn't. All of the firearms listed in the 1994 Viktim Disarmament Edikt were not a single one NFA weapon was listed (later, the Street Sweeper would be added to the NFA list because it was short barreled, not automatic). This did restrict ownership of otherwise perfectly legal rifles. It also restricted supply of high capacity magazines, which was big time Bravo Sierra.
quote:A TRUE assault firearm will fire more than one shot with a single pull of the trigger and arre used exclusively by police and military. I myself have owned guns for almost 50 years and yet I have NEVER been legally allowed to buy ANY firearm that will fire more than one bullet with only one pull of the trigger.
So what? Ownership of even a full auto rifle should not constitute a crime. I would definitely be steering clear of justifying the existence of one weapon at the expense of another. This is an area that should always have remained unrestricted.
quote:Now there were also some accessories that were also banned, and I could make a pretty good story here and show just how stupid, ridiculous and worthless, for trying to provide more safety to the general public, that part of the AWB actually was.
See above under "counterproductive". The idea of restricting the general public of anything available (legal or otherwise) to everyone else is waging war on the populace, plain and simple. A note on ethics, here. If you know what you are doing is counterproductive to the populace, and yet, you continue for selfish reasons, YOU ARE EVIL!!!
quote: But just one small example. The AWB banned bayonet lugs on all "assault rifles". Now just when and where before the AWB went into effect had there been any crime problems with criminals using bayonets in the USA? That one example shows the typical naive, ignorant left-wing, liberal thinking. The AWB was a "solution" for a "problem" that didn't "exist". Anyway, moving on.
Left wingers are not naive or ignorant. They are diabolical and evil. They are hoping to capitalize on your naivety and ignorance, in an attempt to control you, and that is all. A minor correction to the AWB analogy would read something like this: the KVD was a cure worse than the original disease.
quote:I believe that I remember what happened. If anyone has hard facts that says otherwise, please chime in. During the fight over trying to pass the AWB, our side saw that it clearly could not be stopped from passing into law. The anti-gun people were just too strong in the US Senate, House and Clinton. So our side did the next best thing and COMPROMISED in at least two ways.
With the minor insert that we compromised, no. They compromised in order to get the thing passed. It is speculated that the sunset clause may have been a redeeming factor for those who voted for it, but yet, it wasn't. Many pro-gunners in congress knew this was about to turn the tide on the Demonkrats, and voted against it to keep from suffering the wrath of the voters the way Demonkrats were about to suffer. It did exactly that. It was all political leverage... nothing more.
quote:One way. We got the proponents to agree to a 10 year "sunset clause" in which unless, after 10 years, both sides of congress passed either a temporary or even a permanent extension of the AWB, the ban would AUTOMATICALLY expire in 10 years.
That was them. Without this clause, it would have never passed.
quote:Which it did and that "compromise by our side" is the ONLY reason we no long suffer and struggle under the AWB. So for those of you who foam at the mouth every time the word "compromise" is mentioned or suggested, in such a case as I have just describe I'll take such a compromise each and every time .
Here lies the problem. You were willing to compromise when you didn't need to. It was them compromising the whole time, not us. There were a lot of people in congress that knew it would never be passed all at once, and were hopeful that it was a conditioning process that would lead to better things, and proved to be the turning point of their marginal zenith, dropping them to their nadir.
quote:The "compromise" I just mentioned is the ONLY reason we no longer have the AWB.
True, but not for the reason listed, as I'm sure you now know. The beauty of it was, the KVD is what demolished Demonkrat majorities in all facets of the legislative branch of gov't, and now it no longer exists.
quote:And here is another "compromise" I'll bet you will be happy that it happened. In 1994 the AWB gun banners wanted to get ALL items they considered to be "assault weapons and accesssories out of the hands of EVERY citizen.
Correct. They were going to piecemeal this at a later time, probably in Klinton's lame duck term. The voters screwed this up for them, big time.
quote:Now, the AWB did pass, yet you tell me that you gunners in KY continued to buy, sell, trade, keep and use the items that were "banned" by the AWB. Well, I sure you did as did I here in KS. But we were ONLY able to do this because of yet ANOTHER
"compromise".
This really wasn't a compromise. It is the ex post facto/grandfathering clause. The other side knew the populace would not agree to mass confiscation, and inserted that as a relief to the public which already owned these items. They needed this stuff registered, first, but due to the voter's wrath, never got to it.
quote:That compromise was the "grandfather clause" inserted at the insistance of our side ONLY after our side cleary saw that passage of the AWB could NOT be stopped.
I think you now know better. Antigunners always want to assure the public that they are not after all guns (even though they are), and did this to not alarm the populace all at once.
quote:And this second "compromise" was that any of the so-called and outlawed assault weapons and accessories, if made BEFORE the bank went into effect, could still legally be bought, sold, owned and used (except in states that had their own laws against it).
It was a stepping stone, no doubt. This may have also been the law meant to pave the way for state laws more restrictive, so that, once the federal law lapsed, it wouldn't matter.
quote:All of what I have described above could not have been accomplished if all gun owners sat around doing nothing but clinging to their guns and claiming they could do so becasue of their "God-given rights". Instead it took millions of gun owners banding together and pooling their time, money, effort and political clout. And again, no offense intended (for now ), but any gun owner who does not help with such efforts is a "free rider".
Most of the real pressure was put on by voters, because 4 million members of the NRA was not enough to shift the balance against the Demonkrats at any time.
quote:Originally posted by tr fox
quote:Originally posted by codenamepaul
KYplumber- In light of your current situation, I offer at my expense, a one year NRA membership and 25 dollar gift to the NRA-ILA (that'll get you a pocketknife)send me the info via e-mail.
Paul
Dang codenamepaul! You are a generous and good gun person.
quote:Originally posted by kyplumber
Should we have to line some politicians pocket via a lobby group (NRA) to purchase trickle down freedom?
quote:Originally posted by codenamepaul
KYplumber- In light of your current situation, I offer at my expense, a one year NRA membership and 25 dollar gift to the NRA-ILA (that'll get you a pocketknife)send me the info via e-mail.
Paul
thanks anyways that is a very generous offer... but i do not support lobbyist.
quote:Originally posted by kyplumber
quote:Originally posted by kyplumber
Should we have to line some politicians pocket via a lobby group (NRA) to purchase trickle down freedom?
quote:Originally posted by codenamepaul
KYplumber- In light of your current situation, I offer at my expense, a one year NRA membership and 25 dollar gift to the NRA-ILA (that'll get you a pocketknife)send me the info via e-mail.
Paul
thanks anyways that is a very generous offer... but i do not support lobbyist.
Send that money to www.woundedwarriors.com
Went to the site and could not ascertain what they are all about. Besides, I was willing to support them (lobbyists)for you. Oh well,
I was under the impression that it was a lack of funding that caused a withholding of support, not a disagreement in principle.
quote:Originally posted by codenamepaul
quote:Originally posted by kyplumber
quote:Originally posted by kyplumber
Should we have to line some politicians pocket via a lobby group (NRA) to purchase trickle down freedom?
quote:Originally posted by codenamepaul
KYplumber- In light of your current situation, I offer at my expense, a one year NRA membership and 25 dollar gift to the NRA-ILA (that'll get you a pocketknife)send me the info via e-mail.
Paul
thanks anyways that is a very generous offer... but i do not support lobbyist.
Send that money to www.woundedwarriors.com
Went to the site and could not ascertain what they are all about. Besides, I was willing to support them (lobbyists)for you. Oh well,
I was under the impression that it was a lack of funding that caused a withholding of support, not a disagreement in principle.
In fighting the "soft" war, in an attempt to avoid haaving to fight the "hard" war, I have encountered many who were content to sit on the sidelines and do absolutely nothing to help. The way America works, unless you are Bill Gates using the power of his billons, one person can do little or nothing by themselves to help save our citizens rights. It is a fact of life that if anyone want to help with the soft war, they must pool their resources and political clout.
I am very disappointed and worried about America's future whenever I encounter free riders. Especially smug and happy free riders.
Especially those with a moving target of reasons not to.
I can't say I agree with every move the NRA makes. But as I said before. It is inexcusable to justify a physical battle over guns, when you failed to do some part in the paper one. Any part, in some way, as small as it may be. Every little bit can be of help.
quote:Originally posted by codenamepaul
Especially those with a moving target of reasons not to.
I can't say I agree with every move the NRA makes. But as I said before. It is inexcusable to justify a physical battle over guns, when you failed to do some part in the paper one. Any part, in some way, as small as it may be. Every little bit can be of help.
In red above.
Ah, yes. Your move kinda smoked him out in that regard. But it's not just the NRA, there are several other good gun rights groups out there they could join. And if anyone thinks that those groups are nothing more than "lobbists", they are sadly mistaken.
After actually looking at woundedwarriors.com i seen what i did wrong. Then I thought to myself wow this website right here is a little deceptive.. shame on the guy that runs woundedwarriors.com it is obvious that he is trying to fool noobs into sending him money.
I can understand where kyplumber is coming from. The hard fight is not a fight any of us are looking forward to, but to some of us, even me, to a degree, there appears to be no other way. All I can say is hang in there. I know it sucks, and it seems we are paying for the preceeding generation's lack of action, and you're right, but now is the time to turn it around, and it still can happen. There are lots of malcontents out there, and once enough of them come forward (closer than you all may think), things may get better quick.
quote:Originally posted by codenamepaul
Gotta pipe in here. First for you TR-Long time member of NRA. Supporter of ILA. GOAL member-5 years (since moving to MA)
TR your belief in the effect of the NRA is unfounded. LaPierre makes how much per year? They do little more than slow the march to tyranny and are little impediment to that. To believe that they have done as much as you give them credit for is little more than foolish. However,I still support them. Why? My reasoning is this and this alone:
If you come for my stuff, I will fire upon you. I supported my end of the soft conflict until I see there is no longer a soft conflict to have. Don't say you weren't warned, that I did not "compromise", or am being unreasonable. All this was tried and still the anti crowd would not stop. Now you come to me,on my terms and turf, to take what is mine. In collusion with the government, you (the anti's) will have sent, perhaps, good men to die over something you believe in. Have not the guts yourself to face my wrath, but sent minions for me to pile in your way.
Got it?
I reread this whole thread, and now understand why you did what you did paul. You are a very adept thinker and i sincerely thank you for the thought
It aint about money yall, to me its about deciet. I understand what TR is A saying, but understand what we are saying. While the NRA did good to get the 10 year limit with the AW ban, the act of what was it 86, when no more full autos than are out there went through,and the so called cop killers, and then telling us that was A victory, no man I ain't buying what they are selling. As well as many of us here in KY tend to tell folks what they can do, when they tell us what we have to do. I let my NRA membership run out this year when I sent them emails concerning this thread, and the sorry b8stards didn't reply. As well as emails concerning other things, and the sorry b8stards don't reply. Screw'em. I aint giving my money to em. If you want to, your business, I ain't gonna any more, and thats it.
Well, I can sure relate to the "sorry meanies" not even replying. One would think with e-mail they could at least send back some kind of reply. And yeah, it is not just about money. But the money used by the anti-gun, anti-citizens right groups is the main thing that is hurting us in that money buys action and attention.
So we pro-gun,pro-citizens rights people have not choice but to fight back. And sadly, in this day and age you have to fight money with money.
Besides I never tell anyone they HAVE to join the NRA, there are other good pro-gun organizaions out there. And just as when good Americans had to fight the Germans and Japs during WWII, each American soldier didn't just go and do it his own way. He joined with millions of others and they COMBINED their strength. And don't forget that without money to supply the troops, we would have lost the war.
Message to KYPlumber. If it matters to you, even though I disagree with you on some issues, you seem like a pretty good sport and I certainly don't want us to be enemies. Even though you and I might growl at each other from time to time I don't want us to be enemies. If that matters to you.
EXCELLENT !!!
Ties forged out of adversity...the best kind. Being independent, strong-minded INDIVIDUALS..unlike the termites on the other side...we WILL disagree about tactics.
The main thing being...let us not lose sight of the goal.
Freedom from tyranny.
Message to KYPlumber. If it matters to you, even though I disagree with you on some issues, you seem like a pretty good sport and I certainly don't want us to be enemies. Even though you and I might growl at each other from time to time I don't want us to be enemies. If that matters to you.
Nah im not upset. I just could do without the stabs at me I enjoy the debate.. I have much to learn.
quote:Originally posted by kyplumber
quote:Originally posted by codenamepaul
Gotta pipe in here. First for you TR-Long time member of NRA. Supporter of ILA. GOAL member-5 years (since moving to MA)
TR your belief in the effect of the NRA is unfounded. LaPierre makes how much per year? They do little more than slow the march to tyranny and are little impediment to that. To believe that they have done as much as you give them credit for is little more than foolish. However,I still support them. Why? My reasoning is this and this alone:
If you come for my stuff, I will fire upon you. I supported my end of the soft conflict until I see there is no longer a soft conflict to have. Don't say you weren't warned, that I did not "compromise", or am being unreasonable. All this was tried and still the anti crowd would not stop. Now you come to me,on my terms and turf, to take what is mine. In collusion with the government, you (the anti's) will have sent, perhaps, good men to die over something you believe in. Have not the guts yourself to face my wrath, but sent minions for me to pile in your way.
Got it?
I reread this whole thread, and now understand why you did what you did paul. You are a very adept thinker and i sincerely thank you for the thought
Glad to see that. Thought things were gonna get ugly. No harm, no foul. Rest assured, when time comes to pass the ammo, I'll be there to hand you some of what I have left.
quote:Originally posted by kyplumber
quote:Originally posted by tr fox
Message to KYPlumber. If it matters to you, even though I disagree with you on some issues, you seem like a pretty good sport and I certainly don't want us to be enemies. Even though you and I might growl at each other from time to time I don't want us to be enemies. If that matters to you.
Nah im not upset. I just could do without the stabs at me I enjoy the debate.. I have much to learn.
(ONTOPIC)
Any news on kevin?
A very reasonable request. I'm now cutting w-a-y back on the stabs at you
hello to the gun broker forum community, this kevin redrick
once again the los angeles police department, continues to toss road blocks, in the path of my false arrest, fabricated criminal charge, and illegal weapon seizure.
on march 10 2006, i attended my new trial date, at the los angeles
superior court div 134 15th floor, residing judge mark v mooney.
however, again there was another delay.
posted on the door of court room 134, was a note stating that all
matters, for court room 134, will be heard today in court room dept 133, assigned judge patricia m schneeg.
as i was called to the bench of judge patricia m schneeg, i was told my court assigned public defender salvador salgado, was not in court today?
it was his day off.
instead i was represented by public defender sheri lyn.
miss lyn asked the judge for a continuance until may 1 2006, also due to the fact,that my public defender mr. salgado, would be taking a vacation soon also?
however, the district attorney, asked the judge for permission, to approach the bench, for a side bar.
afterwards, the judge told me she was rescheduling my return court date, to march 23 2006.
also she said i must return to my original court room div 134 judge mark v mooney.
i was elated, due to the fact i want to move this case, fast, and asap.
this will be my 14th court appearance, after getting a new trial, and new judge, to try my case.
be advised i am %1000 sure i will be exonerated, from these groundless, fabricated, false, without merit criminal charges.
the los angeles police chief william bratton, simply used these false criminal charges, as a mean to illegally seize my firearms, and to retaliate against me for my filing of lapd internal affairs complaint, and the informing of outside law enforcement agencies,
concerning lapd crimes against me.
the national rifle association, has not responded , to my pleas for their assistance, via mail, telephone, email etc.
i have decided, to cancel my membership with the n.r.a., and have advised my n.r.a constituents, to do the same.
i want to thank wounded wolf,
ky plumber, and the entire gun broker forum, for your support.
those of you who are new to my case, please read the previously 2 posted subjects/lapd chief seized my 30 guns kevin redrick.
my case will set the stage, on gun seizures in los angeles california.
according to the department of justice, own web site, in california/there are 200,000 owners of assult weapons.
only 20,000 are registered with the department of justice.
i can not understand why more californians, are not taking a stand, and joining my fight to preserve rightful ownership, of firearms?
once i prevail in this nightmare case, i will relocate to the state of texas.
well any take care, i will keep you guys posted.
kevin redrick
Friends, all I can say is that if the NRA, GOA, SAF, JPFO, or whatever alphabet 2A organization is not going to stand up for Kevin Redrick, then this task falls upon OUR shoulders.
This is a man that needs our help and support, I'm not going to say anymore. You all know what to do, I've seen many of you step up to the plate before. Before you spend that money on a 12-pack before tomorrow's NASCAR race, think of Kevin.
I'm willing to send him a check, but hell even at $25.00 per person here on the gunrightsforum I doubt that would even be noticed in regards to his legal bills. And I have to add I have been on unpaid medical leave since Feb. 1 and probably won't get back to work until April 8 and my first full check not until May 1. Gotta take care of myself and family so I don't have much to spare for awhile.
quote:Originally posted by tr fox
I'm willing to send him a check, but hell even at $25.00 per person here on the gunrightsforum I doubt that would even be noticed in regards to his legal bills. And I have to add I have been on unpaid medical leave since Feb. 1 and probably won't get back to work until April 8 and my first full check not until May 1. Gotta take care of myself and family so I don't have much to spare for awhile.
He's got a public defender. I don't think money is an issue really. I think a competent defense is. Of couse money will buy more competent defense.
Don't let that happen. We should always worry when a fellow gun owner is being railroaded (from the sounds of it) because it could be anyone of us one day.
Changing counsel can be a very difficult thing to do mid-trial. Having a public defender is a poor choice when it comes to an issue such as this, but if its the only choice, you have to go with it. I would personally have a 2A specialist look over the documents and try and lay out a plan.
quote:Originally posted by WoundedWolf
I contacted all the "pro-gun" groups I could think of via e-mail on Kevin's behalf. The only response I have received thus far has been from JPFO:
quote:Hello,
Unfortunately JPFO does not have a legal defense fund. Your best bet is to
contact Gunowners of America and talk to a Mr.Wenzl, an attorney.
Hope this helps, and good luck!
- The Liberty Crew
Thanks for taking that action Wounded Wolf. It was a good idea that might have paid off. I believe that if some smart insurance executive wanted to get creative he could sell a butt load of insurance for gun owners. Kinda structure it as a combination liability insurance in case we or our guns (in wrong hands) hurt someone or if we get arrested and need legal defense. I myself would be willing to pay $20.00 per month for such insurance (maybe more) and if you multiply that by the number of NRA and GOA members that would profit the insurance company to the tune of about 120 million dollars per year. Even after paying out 100 million per year on legal fees, settling lawsuits or paying damages, that would leave the insurance company $20 million profit per year and also to plow into next year's claims/problems.
Anybody want to or know how to get some insurance company's attention on this?
quote:Originally posted by tr fox
quote:Originally posted by WoundedWolf
I contacted all the "pro-gun" groups I could think of via e-mail on Kevin's behalf. The only response I have received thus far has been from JPFO:
quote:Hello,
Unfortunately JPFO does not have a legal defense fund. Your best bet is to
contact Gunowners of America and talk to a Mr.Wenzl, an attorney.
Hope this helps, and good luck!
- The Liberty Crew
Thanks for taking that action Wounded Wolf. It was a good idea that might have paid off. I believe that if some smart insurance executive wanted to get creative he could sell a butt load of insurance for gun owners. Kinda structure it as a combination liability insurance in case we or our guns (in wrong hands) hurt someone or if we get arrested and need legal defense. I myself would be willing to pay $20.00 per month for such insurance (maybe more) and if you multiply that by the number of NRA and GOA members that would profit the insurance company to the tune of about 120 million dollars per year. Even after paying out 100 million per year on legal fees, settling lawsuits or paying damages, that would leave the insurance company $20 million profit per year and also to plow into next year's claims/problems.
Anybody want to or know how to get some insurance company's attention on this?
you have done it TR...
You have just made the NRA obsolete... I would carry this insurance, as it would help me if i needed it or any other gunowner! that was what the NRA was 'supposed' to do.
That insurance ain't gonna help you when the govt. outlaws guns and they come to take yours. Some will say that the NRA won't stop that either but with all the powerful anti-gun politicians out there, the fact that we still have guns means SOMEBODY has been stopping them. Until I find out for sure I'm going to keep on supporting the NRA, GOA, SAF as well as me writing cards and letters to politicians.
What a saga! The real problem is LA and KA (formerly known as California) has been screwing gun owners for decades and the gneral populus has accepted it, other than the immediate victims. I recall reading LAPD has a policy they do NOT return guns, legal guns or not. Neither do they give a da$$ about their policy being illegal as they are getting away with it! We need to throw some cops in jail for bad actions, that will get their attention and probably nothing else at this point.
You can bad mouth EVERY 2A alphabet organization you wish, they ALL have faults. But until EVERY one of the 70+ million gun owners in this country tell Hollywood, the UN, and Feinstein, and Schumer, the main stream media, and.....to pack sand, not reelect 'em, etc. they are going to keep up what has been working - asking for the farm and taking an acre at a time from us as a compromise.
Until that force gets ACTIVE we will continue to get screwed! Bush had a port deal done, until millions screamed NO, remember?
But it takes money AND time. The NRA is the big player, whether you like it or not. But even they only have ~4 million members (yes, including me), only a small fraction (<2%) of gun owners. I'd prefer a more hard line but the policial support ain't there; its because Joe Six-pack will not contribute, call his Congressman weekly, or take time to protest or write monthly letters to the editor to make others know the status quo 2A issue SUCKS! Course they will scream when it is their door being broken down, but its too late then. Besides, now you are the bad guy not just another good guy trying to be involved in the system.
How many in this discussion know who their local NRA rep is by name? Ever met 'em? When did you talk with him/her last? Who is your Congressman (both state and federal)? Ever been in their offices?
Well, the other side is working the system very well and they are doing what is needed to send us down the river! Until we work the system like they are (with time and money), we are going to be in need of a life vest.
Grassroots efforts stopped a bad gun training bill here a few years ago in WA, Mrs. Brady screamed foul as the NRA mobilized the tens of thousands of average Joe and the initiative died hard and fast. Until KA does the same, it will continue to sink.
That's why when when a job recruiter calls me for a task in KA, I tell 'em HE** NO after I stop laughing at 'em.
It could be too late for this case (hope not), but what are YOU going to do in an effort to prevent a repeat?
FYI - Last Friday I spent the day at a Friends of the NRA fund raiser (as the Chairman) with the regional NRA rep raising funds for youth shooting programs and range development. I too the day off, unpaid, putting my tail where my mouth is. The local TV station was there. The system can be worked, but its slow and costly.
You are either part of the cure or part of the problem; which is it?
Appears some have missed a couple of my statements, like
"But until EVERY one of the 70+ million gun owners in this country tell Hollywood, the UN, and Feinstein, and Schumer, the main stream media, and.....to pack sand, not reelect 'em, etc. they are going to keep up what has been working - asking for the farm and taking an acre at a time from us as a compromise."
No, read it AGAIN - I WANT a more hard line organization which is supported by 50 million gun owners (not 4). I'm open to ideas. Till then, I'll work the best option I think I have available. That is trying to teach the next generation that a piece of wood (ok, many today are synthetic) and steel is not the problem.
Or would you rather we just let 'em be brainwashed by the left and the UN? I think going down fighting is better than giving in (or doing nothing while complaining about it).
Comments
KYplumber- In light of your current situation, I offer at my expense, a one year NRA membership and 25 dollar gift to the NRA-ILA (that'll get you a pocketknife)send me the info via e-mail.
Paul
Dang codenamepaul! You are a generous and good gun person.
quote: KYFatboy, I had a moment to think about this and I probably shouldn't miss a chance to post this reply. This is in regards to your stated ability to continue buying, owning (and maybe selling)items covered by the so-called AWB during the 10 year period the AWB was in effect. There is a subtle nuance you, and probably NUMEROUS others, seem to miss. In 1994 a very powerful group of anti-gun US senators and representatives put together the very restrictive and falsely labeled "assault weapons ban". As you may know, that AWB prohibited numerous types of guns and accessories. And anti-gun President Bill Clinton of course signed that bill into law.
This is, of course a history lesson. I have nothing to add to this that the rest of us didn't already know.
quote:Now, just as a side note, generally speaking the law was a lie, was worthless, and did little or nothing to provide any extra safety or security to the American public.
A little side note of my own. The law was definitely a deceit of epic proportions, but probably not the way the rest of us think. The law was NOT worthless, as that would indicate that it did nothing good or bad, but it did do something bad, which is why it is counterproductive. It endangered the people of the US by taking away certain necessary firearms and support equipment, without considering that criminals would not obey, thereby making the people victims. Political motivation to make the people dependent on the system for protection led to this conclusion, which was diabolic and evil.
quote:Reason being that the AWB banned something that 99.9% of American gun owners are ALREADY banned from owning; and that is a TRUE assault weapon.
No it didn't. All of the firearms listed in the 1994 Viktim Disarmament Edikt were not a single one NFA weapon was listed (later, the Street Sweeper would be added to the NFA list because it was short barreled, not automatic). This did restrict ownership of otherwise perfectly legal rifles. It also restricted supply of high capacity magazines, which was big time Bravo Sierra.
quote:A TRUE assault firearm will fire more than one shot with a single pull of the trigger and arre used exclusively by police and military. I myself have owned guns for almost 50 years and yet I have NEVER been legally allowed to buy ANY firearm that will fire more than one bullet with only one pull of the trigger.
So what? Ownership of even a full auto rifle should not constitute a crime. I would definitely be steering clear of justifying the existence of one weapon at the expense of another. This is an area that should always have remained unrestricted.
quote:Now there were also some accessories that were also banned, and I could make a pretty good story here and show just how stupid, ridiculous and worthless, for trying to provide more safety to the general public, that part of the AWB actually was.
See above under "counterproductive". The idea of restricting the general public of anything available (legal or otherwise) to everyone else is waging war on the populace, plain and simple. A note on ethics, here. If you know what you are doing is counterproductive to the populace, and yet, you continue for selfish reasons, YOU ARE EVIL!!!
quote: But just one small example. The AWB banned bayonet lugs on all "assault rifles". Now just when and where before the AWB went into effect had there been any crime problems with criminals using bayonets in the USA? That one example shows the typical naive, ignorant left-wing, liberal thinking. The AWB was a "solution" for a "problem" that didn't "exist". Anyway, moving on.
Left wingers are not naive or ignorant. They are diabolical and evil. They are hoping to capitalize on your naivety and ignorance, in an attempt to control you, and that is all. A minor correction to the AWB analogy would read something like this: the KVD was a cure worse than the original disease.
quote:I believe that I remember what happened. If anyone has hard facts that says otherwise, please chime in. During the fight over trying to pass the AWB, our side saw that it clearly could not be stopped from passing into law. The anti-gun people were just too strong in the US Senate, House and Clinton. So our side did the next best thing and COMPROMISED in at least two ways.
With the minor insert that we compromised, no. They compromised in order to get the thing passed. It is speculated that the sunset clause may have been a redeeming factor for those who voted for it, but yet, it wasn't. Many pro-gunners in congress knew this was about to turn the tide on the Demonkrats, and voted against it to keep from suffering the wrath of the voters the way Demonkrats were about to suffer. It did exactly that. It was all political leverage... nothing more.
quote:One way. We got the proponents to agree to a 10 year "sunset clause" in which unless, after 10 years, both sides of congress passed either a temporary or even a permanent extension of the AWB, the ban would AUTOMATICALLY expire in 10 years.
That was them. Without this clause, it would have never passed.
quote:Which it did and that "compromise by our side" is the ONLY reason we no long suffer and struggle under the AWB. So for those of you who foam at the mouth every time the word "compromise" is mentioned or suggested, in such a case as I have just describe I'll take such a compromise each and every time .
Here lies the problem. You were willing to compromise when you didn't need to. It was them compromising the whole time, not us. There were a lot of people in congress that knew it would never be passed all at once, and were hopeful that it was a conditioning process that would lead to better things, and proved to be the turning point of their marginal zenith, dropping them to their nadir.
quote:The "compromise" I just mentioned is the ONLY reason we no longer have the AWB.
True, but not for the reason listed, as I'm sure you now know. The beauty of it was, the KVD is what demolished Demonkrat majorities in all facets of the legislative branch of gov't, and now it no longer exists.
quote:And here is another "compromise" I'll bet you will be happy that it happened. In 1994 the AWB gun banners wanted to get ALL items they considered to be "assault weapons and accesssories out of the hands of EVERY citizen.
Correct. They were going to piecemeal this at a later time, probably in Klinton's lame duck term. The voters screwed this up for them, big time.
quote:Now, the AWB did pass, yet you tell me that you gunners in KY continued to buy, sell, trade, keep and use the items that were "banned" by the AWB. Well, I sure you did as did I here in KS. But we were ONLY able to do this because of yet ANOTHER
"compromise".
This really wasn't a compromise. It is the ex post facto/grandfathering clause. The other side knew the populace would not agree to mass confiscation, and inserted that as a relief to the public which already owned these items. They needed this stuff registered, first, but due to the voter's wrath, never got to it.
quote:That compromise was the "grandfather clause" inserted at the insistance of our side ONLY after our side cleary saw that passage of the AWB could NOT be stopped.
I think you now know better. Antigunners always want to assure the public that they are not after all guns (even though they are), and did this to not alarm the populace all at once.
quote:And this second "compromise" was that any of the so-called and outlawed assault weapons and accessories, if made BEFORE the bank went into effect, could still legally be bought, sold, owned and used (except in states that had their own laws against it).
It was a stepping stone, no doubt. This may have also been the law meant to pave the way for state laws more restrictive, so that, once the federal law lapsed, it wouldn't matter.
quote:All of what I have described above could not have been accomplished if all gun owners sat around doing nothing but clinging to their guns and claiming they could do so becasue of their "God-given rights". Instead it took millions of gun owners banding together and pooling their time, money, effort and political clout. And again, no offense intended (for now ), but any gun owner who does not help with such efforts is a "free rider".
Most of the real pressure was put on by voters, because 4 million members of the NRA was not enough to shift the balance against the Demonkrats at any time.
quote:Originally posted by codenamepaul
KYplumber- In light of your current situation, I offer at my expense, a one year NRA membership and 25 dollar gift to the NRA-ILA (that'll get you a pocketknife)send me the info via e-mail.
Paul
Dang codenamepaul! You are a generous and good gun person.
Thank you. Still waiting on that e-mail.
Should we have to line some politicians pocket via a lobby group (NRA) to purchase trickle down freedom?
quote:Originally posted by codenamepaul
KYplumber- In light of your current situation, I offer at my expense, a one year NRA membership and 25 dollar gift to the NRA-ILA (that'll get you a pocketknife)send me the info via e-mail.
Paul
thanks anyways that is a very generous offer... but i do not support lobbyist.
Send that money to www.woundedwarriors.org
Kevin Redrick, good luck in court tomorrow.
-WoundedWolf
quote:Originally posted by kyplumber
Should we have to line some politicians pocket via a lobby group (NRA) to purchase trickle down freedom?
quote:Originally posted by codenamepaul
KYplumber- In light of your current situation, I offer at my expense, a one year NRA membership and 25 dollar gift to the NRA-ILA (that'll get you a pocketknife)send me the info via e-mail.
Paul
thanks anyways that is a very generous offer... but i do not support lobbyist.
Send that money to www.woundedwarriors.com
Went to the site and could not ascertain what they are all about. Besides, I was willing to support them (lobbyists)for you. Oh well,
I was under the impression that it was a lack of funding that caused a withholding of support, not a disagreement in principle.
quote:Originally posted by kyplumber
quote:Originally posted by kyplumber
Should we have to line some politicians pocket via a lobby group (NRA) to purchase trickle down freedom?
quote:Originally posted by codenamepaul
KYplumber- In light of your current situation, I offer at my expense, a one year NRA membership and 25 dollar gift to the NRA-ILA (that'll get you a pocketknife)send me the info via e-mail.
Paul
thanks anyways that is a very generous offer... but i do not support lobbyist.
Send that money to www.woundedwarriors.com
Went to the site and could not ascertain what they are all about. Besides, I was willing to support them (lobbyists)for you. Oh well,
I was under the impression that it was a lack of funding that caused a withholding of support, not a disagreement in principle.
In fighting the "soft" war, in an attempt to avoid haaving to fight the "hard" war, I have encountered many who were content to sit on the sidelines and do absolutely nothing to help. The way America works, unless you are Bill Gates using the power of his billons, one person can do little or nothing by themselves to help save our citizens rights. It is a fact of life that if anyone want to help with the soft war, they must pool their resources and political clout.
I am very disappointed and worried about America's future whenever I encounter free riders. Especially smug and happy free riders.
I can't say I agree with every move the NRA makes. But as I said before. It is inexcusable to justify a physical battle over guns, when you failed to do some part in the paper one. Any part, in some way, as small as it may be. Every little bit can be of help.
Especially those with a moving target of reasons not to.
I can't say I agree with every move the NRA makes. But as I said before. It is inexcusable to justify a physical battle over guns, when you failed to do some part in the paper one. Any part, in some way, as small as it may be. Every little bit can be of help.
In red above.
Ah, yes. Your move kinda smoked him out in that regard. But it's not just the NRA, there are several other good gun rights groups out there they could join. And if anyone thinks that those groups are nothing more than "lobbists", they are sadly mistaken.
If you cant understand what i have wrote that is your problem not mine.
I said no thanks. So shove that freerider crap where the sun dont shine.
I would rather fight the "hard" fight because i am not a lazy puss.
Send that money to www.woundedwarriors.com
OMG!
its www.woundedwarriors.org
please excuse my absence
Gotta pipe in here. First for you TR-Long time member of NRA. Supporter of ILA. GOAL member-5 years (since moving to MA)
TR your belief in the effect of the NRA is unfounded. LaPierre makes how much per year? They do little more than slow the march to tyranny and are little impediment to that. To believe that they have done as much as you give them credit for is little more than foolish. However,I still support them. Why? My reasoning is this and this alone:
If you come for my stuff, I will fire upon you. I supported my end of the soft conflict until I see there is no longer a soft conflict to have. Don't say you weren't warned, that I did not "compromise", or am being unreasonable. All this was tried and still the anti crowd would not stop. Now you come to me,on my terms and turf, to take what is mine. In collusion with the government, you (the anti's) will have sent, perhaps, good men to die over something you believe in. Have not the guts yourself to face my wrath, but sent minions for me to pile in your way.
Got it?
I reread this whole thread, and now understand why you did what you did paul. You are a very adept thinker and i sincerely thank you for the thought
So we pro-gun,pro-citizens rights people have not choice but to fight back. And sadly, in this day and age you have to fight money with money.
Besides I never tell anyone they HAVE to join the NRA, there are other good pro-gun organizaions out there. And just as when good Americans had to fight the Germans and Japs during WWII, each American soldier didn't just go and do it his own way. He joined with millions of others and they COMBINED their strength. And don't forget that without money to supply the troops, we would have lost the war.
Message to KYPlumber. If it matters to you, even though I disagree with you on some issues, you seem like a pretty good sport and I certainly don't want us to be enemies. Even though you and I might growl at each other from time to time I don't want us to be enemies. If that matters to you.
Ties forged out of adversity...the best kind. Being independent, strong-minded INDIVIDUALS..unlike the termites on the other side...we WILL disagree about tactics.
The main thing being...let us not lose sight of the goal.
Freedom from tyranny.
Message to KYPlumber. If it matters to you, even though I disagree with you on some issues, you seem like a pretty good sport and I certainly don't want us to be enemies. Even though you and I might growl at each other from time to time I don't want us to be enemies. If that matters to you.
Nah im not upset. I just could do without the stabs at me
(ONTOPIC)
Any news on kevin?
quote:Originally posted by codenamepaul
Gotta pipe in here. First for you TR-Long time member of NRA. Supporter of ILA. GOAL member-5 years (since moving to MA)
TR your belief in the effect of the NRA is unfounded. LaPierre makes how much per year? They do little more than slow the march to tyranny and are little impediment to that. To believe that they have done as much as you give them credit for is little more than foolish. However,I still support them. Why? My reasoning is this and this alone:
If you come for my stuff, I will fire upon you. I supported my end of the soft conflict until I see there is no longer a soft conflict to have. Don't say you weren't warned, that I did not "compromise", or am being unreasonable. All this was tried and still the anti crowd would not stop. Now you come to me,on my terms and turf, to take what is mine. In collusion with the government, you (the anti's) will have sent, perhaps, good men to die over something you believe in. Have not the guts yourself to face my wrath, but sent minions for me to pile in your way.
Got it?
I reread this whole thread, and now understand why you did what you did paul. You are a very adept thinker and i sincerely thank you for the thought
Glad to see that. Thought things were gonna get ugly. No harm, no foul. Rest assured, when time comes to pass the ammo, I'll be there to hand you some of what I have left.
quote:Originally posted by tr fox
Message to KYPlumber. If it matters to you, even though I disagree with you on some issues, you seem like a pretty good sport and I certainly don't want us to be enemies. Even though you and I might growl at each other from time to time I don't want us to be enemies. If that matters to you.
Nah im not upset. I just could do without the stabs at me
(ONTOPIC)
Any news on kevin?
A very reasonable request. I'm now cutting w-a-y back on the stabs at you
once again the los angeles police department, continues to toss road blocks, in the path of my false arrest, fabricated criminal charge, and illegal weapon seizure.
on march 10 2006, i attended my new trial date, at the los angeles
superior court div 134 15th floor, residing judge mark v mooney.
however, again there was another delay.
posted on the door of court room 134, was a note stating that all
matters, for court room 134, will be heard today in court room dept 133, assigned judge patricia m schneeg.
as i was called to the bench of judge patricia m schneeg, i was told my court assigned public defender salvador salgado, was not in court today?
it was his day off.
instead i was represented by public defender sheri lyn.
miss lyn asked the judge for a continuance until may 1 2006, also due to the fact,that my public defender mr. salgado, would be taking a vacation soon also?
however, the district attorney, asked the judge for permission, to approach the bench, for a side bar.
afterwards, the judge told me she was rescheduling my return court date, to march 23 2006.
also she said i must return to my original court room div 134 judge mark v mooney.
i was elated, due to the fact i want to move this case, fast, and asap.
this will be my 14th court appearance, after getting a new trial, and new judge, to try my case.
be advised i am %1000 sure i will be exonerated, from these groundless, fabricated, false, without merit criminal charges.
the los angeles police chief william bratton, simply used these false criminal charges, as a mean to illegally seize my firearms, and to retaliate against me for my filing of lapd internal affairs complaint, and the informing of outside law enforcement agencies,
concerning lapd crimes against me.
the national rifle association, has not responded , to my pleas for their assistance, via mail, telephone, email etc.
i have decided, to cancel my membership with the n.r.a., and have advised my n.r.a constituents, to do the same.
i want to thank wounded wolf,
ky plumber, and the entire gun broker forum, for your support.
those of you who are new to my case, please read the previously 2 posted subjects/lapd chief seized my 30 guns kevin redrick.
my case will set the stage, on gun seizures in los angeles california.
according to the department of justice, own web site, in california/there are 200,000 owners of assult weapons.
only 20,000 are registered with the department of justice.
i can not understand why more californians, are not taking a stand, and joining my fight to preserve rightful ownership, of firearms?
once i prevail in this nightmare case, i will relocate to the state of texas.
well any take care, i will keep you guys posted.
kevin redrick
again where is the N.R.A.?
This is a man that needs our help and support, I'm not going to say anymore. You all know what to do, I've seen many of you step up to the plate before. Before you spend that money on a 12-pack before tomorrow's NASCAR race, think of Kevin.
-WW
I'm willing to send him a check, but hell even at $25.00 per person here on the gunrightsforum I doubt that would even be noticed in regards to his legal bills. And I have to add I have been on unpaid medical leave since Feb. 1 and probably won't get back to work until April 8 and my first full check not until May 1. Gotta take care of myself and family so I don't have much to spare for awhile.
He's got a public defender. I don't think money is an issue really. I think a competent defense is. Of couse money will buy more competent defense.
Changing counsel can be a very difficult thing to do mid-trial. Having a public defender is a poor choice when it comes to an issue such as this, but if its the only choice, you have to go with it. I would personally have a 2A specialist look over the documents and try and lay out a plan.
quote:Hello,
Unfortunately JPFO does not have a legal defense fund. Your best bet is to
contact Gunowners of America and talk to a Mr.Wenzl, an attorney.
Hope this helps, and good luck!
- The Liberty Crew
I contacted all the "pro-gun" groups I could think of via e-mail on Kevin's behalf. The only response I have received thus far has been from JPFO:
quote:Hello,
Unfortunately JPFO does not have a legal defense fund. Your best bet is to
contact Gunowners of America and talk to a Mr.Wenzl, an attorney.
Hope this helps, and good luck!
- The Liberty Crew
Thanks for taking that action Wounded Wolf. It was a good idea that might have paid off. I believe that if some smart insurance executive wanted to get creative he could sell a butt load of insurance for gun owners. Kinda structure it as a combination liability insurance in case we or our guns (in wrong hands) hurt someone or if we get arrested and need legal defense. I myself would be willing to pay $20.00 per month for such insurance (maybe more) and if you multiply that by the number of NRA and GOA members that would profit the insurance company to the tune of about 120 million dollars per year. Even after paying out 100 million per year on legal fees, settling lawsuits or paying damages, that would leave the insurance company $20 million profit per year and also to plow into next year's claims/problems.
Anybody want to or know how to get some insurance company's attention on this?
quote:Originally posted by WoundedWolf
I contacted all the "pro-gun" groups I could think of via e-mail on Kevin's behalf. The only response I have received thus far has been from JPFO:
quote:Hello,
Unfortunately JPFO does not have a legal defense fund. Your best bet is to
contact Gunowners of America and talk to a Mr.Wenzl, an attorney.
Hope this helps, and good luck!
- The Liberty Crew
Thanks for taking that action Wounded Wolf. It was a good idea that might have paid off. I believe that if some smart insurance executive wanted to get creative he could sell a butt load of insurance for gun owners. Kinda structure it as a combination liability insurance in case we or our guns (in wrong hands) hurt someone or if we get arrested and need legal defense. I myself would be willing to pay $20.00 per month for such insurance (maybe more) and if you multiply that by the number of NRA and GOA members that would profit the insurance company to the tune of about 120 million dollars per year. Even after paying out 100 million per year on legal fees, settling lawsuits or paying damages, that would leave the insurance company $20 million profit per year and also to plow into next year's claims/problems.
Anybody want to or know how to get some insurance company's attention on this?
you have done it TR...
You have just made the NRA obsolete... I would carry this insurance, as it would help me if i needed it or any other gunowner! that was what the NRA was 'supposed' to do.
You can bad mouth EVERY 2A alphabet organization you wish, they ALL have faults. But until EVERY one of the 70+ million gun owners in this country tell Hollywood, the UN, and Feinstein, and Schumer, the main stream media, and.....to pack sand, not reelect 'em, etc. they are going to keep up what has been working - asking for the farm and taking an acre at a time from us as a compromise.
Until that force gets ACTIVE we will continue to get screwed! Bush had a port deal done, until millions screamed NO, remember?
But it takes money AND time. The NRA is the big player, whether you like it or not. But even they only have ~4 million members (yes, including me), only a small fraction (<2%) of gun owners. I'd prefer a more hard line but the policial support ain't there; its because Joe Six-pack will not contribute, call his Congressman weekly, or take time to protest or write monthly letters to the editor to make others know the status quo 2A issue SUCKS! Course they will scream when it is their door being broken down, but its too late then. Besides, now you are the bad guy not just another good guy trying to be involved in the system.
How many in this discussion know who their local NRA rep is by name? Ever met 'em? When did you talk with him/her last? Who is your Congressman (both state and federal)? Ever been in their offices?
Well, the other side is working the system very well and they are doing what is needed to send us down the river! Until we work the system like they are (with time and money), we are going to be in need of a life vest.
Grassroots efforts stopped a bad gun training bill here a few years ago in WA, Mrs. Brady screamed foul as the NRA mobilized the tens of thousands of average Joe and the initiative died hard and fast. Until KA does the same, it will continue to sink.
That's why when when a job recruiter calls me for a task in KA, I tell 'em HE** NO after I stop laughing at 'em.
It could be too late for this case (hope not), but what are YOU going to do in an effort to prevent a repeat?
FYI - Last Friday I spent the day at a Friends of the NRA fund raiser (as the Chairman) with the regional NRA rep raising funds for youth shooting programs and range development. I too the day off, unpaid, putting my tail where my mouth is. The local TV station was there. The system can be worked, but its slow and costly.
You are either part of the cure or part of the problem; which is it?
Best wishes in court!
He says all the things that have gotten us 20,000 some gun laws.
"But until EVERY one of the 70+ million gun owners in this country tell Hollywood, the UN, and Feinstein, and Schumer, the main stream media, and.....to pack sand, not reelect 'em, etc. they are going to keep up what has been working - asking for the farm and taking an acre at a time from us as a compromise."
No, read it AGAIN - I WANT a more hard line organization which is supported by 50 million gun owners (not 4). I'm open to ideas. Till then, I'll work the best option I think I have available. That is trying to teach the next generation that a piece of wood (ok, many today are synthetic) and steel is not the problem.
Or would you rather we just let 'em be brainwashed by the left and the UN? I think going down fighting is better than giving in (or doing nothing while complaining about it).