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quote:Originally posted by tr fox
quote:Originally posted by gunphreak
What was the point of that???
Some of these people around here are truly slower on the uptake than others, methinks....
What was the point of me answering your question?
Actually no. I was in the process of replying above, and you posted before me.
Thank you for your honesty, Fox.
Now I'm going to tell you what I think...
You are right about the fact that the NRA made a huge mistake when they sided with antigun forces of any sort. This is not a good idea. It upsets those of us who will be divided on the issue, and many of us want the Brady bill and NICS dead; not revamped; not improved.
You see, neither of these bills accomplish anything productive. What they do is hinder those they should not be. Insisting on revising, or improving something like this emphasizes that it is needed, when clearly, it is part of the problem, if not the whole problem. If you have a broken bone, you don't break it even further in the hopes that it will fix itself. You see where I'm going with this.
We have a right to be upset, and a petition may be a good idea, but even moreso, it may be time to get an audience with the leaders of the NRA and explain to them how we feel about this, and urge them not to do it. The way I see it, one of their board members is not in favor of this; Ted Nugent. Love 'em or hate'em, he is right on this issue. He may be the man to contact, though he may not readily respond.
How old are some of you guys? I'm old enough to remember when I could order two S&W .38 Specials with a two gun holster rig thru the mail from Martin B. Retting, for $25!Everything was pretty much wide open until GC '68, thanks mainly to Senator Thomas Dodd, Democrat, that idiot who later was shown to be a criminal, and father of that now dumbazz Senator also named Dodd. The NRA was the only organized group around at the time. They had already been around for 3 quarters of a century, supporting gun sports, training law enforcement officers and the military, promoting gun safety, etc. Any pro-gun rights action had to be ramped up from there. So the NRA has let me down sometimes, I know that without them it would have been goodbye 2nd. Amendment a long time ago. If you got something better may your God bless you, have at it. If all you can do is complain about the other guy's efforts you must be a Democrat. If any other organization can do better why haven't they? I'll join. But if all they want to do is whine about the NRA then as we say down heah, (insert the usual "tits on a boar hog" thing here). Why not some positive suggestions to help us out. Too much "bashing" can have a negative effect on you opinion. "Lets work together, now now people," Canned Heat
answered that earlier............51 yrs.,used to teach hunter safety in maine and new hampshire,used to be a republican.....notice a recurring theme....losse the 2nd over 50 years,loode it all at once,guess what,its still lost.period.
fideau:
quote: How old are some of you guys? So old that I can remember when men had honor and respected their Fellow Americans. When people looked you in the eye when they spoke. When a man's word meant something. When a man's word WAS his bond and a handshake sealed a deal.
Old enough to remember when everyone knew everyone. Neighbor?? They had a name!! They looked out for you and could be counted on in time of need. And visa versa. (And here I refer not to just the people next door.) A time before the government tit ruled supreme.
Old enough to have witnessed the complete moral decay of a great nation. To have seen God removed from the vocabulary of a nation founded on the principle of freedom of religion. A time when life was held sacred and had value. A time when our youth were our future, and we cherished that thought. We made sacrifices to protect them and to secure their future well-being.
Old enough to remember when youngsters were taught to be self-reliant and responsible for their own actions. A time when parents made and enforced rules in the home. To break them had consequences and double jeopardy didn't apply if you violated even the most minor rules of society. You paid at home and then you paid the man. Yourself!! And you accepted that responsibility as a man.
Old enough to remember when schools were a place of learning!! Not the Nanny. Not the surrogate disciplinarian. And certainly NOT the moral/political indoctrination centers of today. Old enough to see parental rights usurped by the Board Of Education and children used as guinea pigs for the pharmaceutical Industry.
Old (and young) enough to remember when you didn't have to mail order a firearm. Old enough to remember when firearm ownership and hunting was considered a right of passage. When regardless of age and without a pile of paperwork, you could purchase a firearm, legally, practically anywhere. When every male classmate, and most of the females, owned a firearm of some sort. Old enough to remember NEVER seeing one in school. Not because everyone else was armed, but because it was irresponsible and there were consequences. A time when people respected the rule of law.
Old enough to remember the NRA was something country folks had little or no use for simply because they took the time and the personal responsibility of training their progeny/prot?g? themselves. They were free to exercise their rights. Old enough to remember the NRA as a revered organization even though they had already begun a tradition of compromise. As the migration from agrarian to urban life took place, city dwellers were more inclined to utilize membership in an attempt to perpetuate the time honored tradition. They joined, and enrolled their children for the training that was offered. So began the shedding of personal responsibility. So also, began the clout, in numbers, and the invasion by anti-gun life-members, like Levin, that brought us the era of gun control and lose of rights. And not JUST our 2nd Amendments rights.
Old enough to have seen the work and sacrifice of generations of Patriots negated/diluted by irresponsibility, greed, corruption and apathy. Old enough to know the difference between what this country used to be and what it has become!!
Old enough to see the direction in which we are being led and not like it. Old enough to know when enough is enough, stand up, speak out and do my part as a patriotic American to stop the total collapse of our society.
Old enough to be called an "OLD FOOL". And proud of it!!!
Wagon Wheel, I wouldn't disagree with any of that. I think we can put some blame on ourselves however, because our generation (you sound like you and I have been around about the same time) did not find a way to stop the liberal takeover. Maybe it was inevitable. Wiser men than I have written that a democracy can last about 200 years before it begins to reverse and eventually becomes the exact opposite. This process has begun in America. It will continue unless good men again rise to stop it. I'm not sure anymore that this is possible, since anything like another revolution would allow our enemies to take advantage and that would be all for us. Divide and conquor. That's what the liberals are doing to us and that's what worries me about fellow gun owners criticizing each other. It's hard to be optomistic about the future. I wish someone could convince me otherwise. If you're an "old fool" so am I. Thanks for putting in words my own feelings.
quote:I think we can put some blame on ourselves however, because our generation (you sound like you and I have been around about the same time) did not find a way to stop the liberal takeover. Maybe it was inevitable.
Oh yes. We failed to heed the warnings of the "Old Fools" of our youth. I can honestly tell you I have never voted for a Demorat in my life but I am guilty of allowing the lesser of two evil mentality to persist. Now I know how that Old Fool of MY youth felt when he tried to warn me.
quote:Divide and conquer. That's what the liberals are doing to us and that's what worries me about fellow gun owners criticizing each other.
History will verify it is always a successful tactic. There is, in every camp, a dissenting faction that allows ego to trump intelligence, self interest to trump common good and of course, those whom, for one reason or another, see compromise as victory. The liberals see this and feed upon it. As gun owners, all the good intentions in the world have led to nothing but more and more compromise. Until more gun owners finally realize they are being compromised out of all their rights the feeding frenzy will continue!
quote:It's hard to be optimistic about the future. I wish someone could convince me otherwise. If you're an "old fool" so am I.
I have been Mr. Optimistic, much to the chagrin of many here, but as has been obvious lately, even to myself, I too, am losing hope. The operate span of the average American is no longer than the last attack. If they can be rallied in opposition of something like a gun control bill, immigration reform etc..; they seem to ignore, or be indifferent when the same attack is made from a different direction or venue. The lack of concern is frustrating. The liberals are winning by wearing us down, constant attacks and, unfortunately, attrition.
quote:If you're an "old fool" so am I.
A title that I can finally appreciate the meaning of!!
quote:I'm old enough to remember when I could order two S&W .38 Specials with a two gun holster rig thru the mail from Martin B. Retting, for $25!Everything was pretty much
Impossible for me to grasp how one that lived thru this can look at the present situation and still say with a straight face that the NRA has HELPED us.
Helped us...HOW..by greasing the way into slavery and tyranny ?
I have decided for MY part...I want NO MORE HELP like they have provided over the last 70 years.
Unless crawling on you belly, begging Daddy for permission to buy a gun, gives you some sort of perverse pleasure..
The utter INSANITY of standing by and allowing rotten Elites the power to know EXACTLY what, where, and from WHOM the threat to their ultimate takeover is..just blows me out of the saddle.
HOW could a populace of free men be so utterly stupid as to encourage, aid, and abet such abysmal degradation of the ideas of the Founders leaves me ice-cold.
Better to encourage the Elites to make their final grab NOW...let us see which side has the bigger balls.
What a concept in TODAY'S society. We have doled out our RESPOSIBILITIES so long to "organizations" they have forgotton what responsibilities are OURS(the people). It is OUR responsibility as AMERICANS to stand for what is OURS. Not the NRA, GOA, JFPO, ect.
You want to support an organization? Join a citizen's militia, or form one yourself. With LIBERTY comes RESPONSIBILITY, friends. The government is SUPPOSED to fear it's citizens, NOT the other way around.
AlterNet: Rights and Liberties: Gun Love in America Is Strong as Ever
Pro or Con ? I'll leave that up to the reader.
quote:One federal study estimated there were 215 million guns, with about half of all US households owning one. Such a staggering number makes America's gun culture thoroughly mainstream.
'They have made what was once unthinkable thinkable,' said Patrick, a liberal academic. He should know. He owns a gun himself. Even the US critics of gun culture are armed.
In the 2006 mid-term elections the NRA was able to back a historically high 58 Democrats running for office. Every one of them went on to win.
A close check of their voting records would not be a waste of your time. Every Demorat they backed in my state votes the party line on gun control!!
quote:Hence the fact that gun ownership is still a constitutional right, in case America is ever invaded and needs to form a popular militia (as hard as that event might be to imagine).
Even those who advocate much tighter laws have long accepted defeat of the ideal of creating a society where guns are rare in public life, or even completely absent. 'That notion is absurd. There is no way to de-gun America,' said Patrick. http://www.alternet.org:80/rights/65194/
quote:Even those who advocate much tighter laws have long accepted defeat of the ideal of creating a society where guns are rare in public life, or even completely absent. 'That notion is absurd. There is no way to de-gun America,' said Patrick.
Oddly enough, I think this IS accepted fact among the Elite. Thuse the conditions leading to the easy expediture of BILLONS of dollars on 'Black Bag' technology...cheered on by much of the masses.
The useful idiots forget that when vast power is conferred on a few men...they misuse it.
The day will come when you may well eagerly line up to turn in your guns..(You being enemy of the state)..while the NRA and their supporters keep THEIRS...the NRA/supporters caring nothing about the Constitution..so they represent no threat to the State.
All after one of their black boxes is turned in your direction....
quote:Originally posted by Highball
quote:Even those who advocate much tighter laws have long accepted defeat of the ideal of creating a society where guns are rare in public life, or even completely absent. 'That notion is absurd. There is no way to de-gun America,' said Patrick.
Oddly enough, I think this IS accepted fact among the Elite. Thuse the conditions leading to the easy expediture of BILLONS of dollars on 'Black Bag' technology...cheered on by much of the masses.
The useful idiots forget that when vast power is conferred on a few men...they misuse it.
The day will come when you may well eagerly line up to turn in your guns..(You being enemy of the state)..while the NRA and their supporters keep THEIRS...the NRA/supporters caring nothing about the Constitution..so they represent no threat to the State.
All after one of their black boxes is turned in your direction....
and it will be to late.......whenever it happens,in 2yrs.or twenty.
"If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen." ~ Samuel Adams
Really cool but I don't understand why the creator didn't use the proper author. It would be just as good. Maybe someone here can photo-shop it and re-post.
If ye love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains set lightly upon you; and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen. - Samuel Adams
why do some people think a person have to be a regestered democrat or republican to either support or not support an anti gun bill?
do we have to follow blindly an organization that jumps into bed with the most antigun people on earth? why can't questions be asked and proposed bills be oposed without being called a hipocrite?
it seems there are some people on this forum who would jump off a clift if the nra officers told them it is a good thing to do. that is just plain dumb. each person has to decide for themselves weather they want to jump or not. when something bad is in the air i try to stay away. if you want to be a good little puppet be one, but don't call me a hipocrite because i ask questions and opose a bad law that is not needed anyway.
quote:Why do some people think a person have to be a registered democrat or republican to either support or not support an anti gun bill?
Do we have to follow blindly an organization that jumps into bed with the most antigun people on earth? Why can't questions be asked and proposed bills be opposed without being called a hypocrite?
It seems there are some people on this forum that would jump off a cliff if the NRA officers told them it is a good thing to do. That is just plain dumb. Each person has to decide for himself or herself whether they want to jump or not. When something bad is in the air I try to stay away. If you want to be a good little puppet be one, but don't call me a hypocrite because I ask questions and oppose a bad law that is not needed anyway.A very insightful post; the short answer being:
Because the MSM leads them to believe that way and they don't have the time (or the inclination) to investigate themselves, let alone question the motives!! The truth would burst the "bubble of comfort" they seem to live in and thrive upon. Until more people start to "question the motive" the politicians will continue support the motives of the lobbyists over the will of the people and the Constitution!!! Because they can!!
quote:Why do some people think a person have to be a registered democrat or republican to either support or not support an anti gun bill?
Do we have to follow blindly an organization that jumps into bed with the most antigun people on earth? Why can't questions be asked and proposed bills be opposed without being called a hypocrite?
It seems there are some people on this forum that would jump off a cliff if the NRA officers told them it is a good thing to do. That is just plain dumb. Each person has to decide for himself or herself whether they want to jump or not. When something bad is in the air I try to stay away. If you want to be a good little puppet be one, but don't call me a hypocrite because I ask questions and oppose a bad law that is not needed anyway.A very insightful post; the short answer being:
Because the MSM leads them to believe that way and they don't have the time (or the inclination) to investigate themselves, let alone question the motives!! The truth would burst the "bubble of comfort" they seem to live in and thrive upon. Until more people start to "question the motive" the politicians will continue support the motives of the lobbyists over the will of the people and the Constitution!!! Because they can!!
Relative to the blind support and obedience that the NRA seems to enjoy from a large part of the gun-owning public, this simply goes back to the NRA's historical status. You know, the status as an American Institution, with the "institutional support" that accompanies that status. Kind of like the Repub and Demo parties enjoy, regardless of the direction and actions they take.
The "fact" that we would not have a Second Amendment if not for the NRA, right?
The comfort of knowing that the NRA has been "standing tall" for YOUR gun-rights since the late 1800's, right?
The sure knowledge that many in your family, Dad, Mom, Grandpa and Uncle Skippy, have ALL been "proud members" of the NRA, right?
The sure knowledge that with 4 million members, this proves that the NRA is looking out for us, doesn't it?
At least they are "trying" and/or DOING something, right?
These sentiments seem to be the norm among American gun-owners.
It is also important to remember that the vast majority of America's gun-owners are hunters, or those who have a few guns "just because we've always had guns" and/or "they were handed down from Grandpa".
These gun-owners are generally ignorant of constitutional matters, except in the generic sense.
These gun owners are primarily not "politically active" or savvy.
These gun-owners are like most right here on the GB Forums.
These gun-owners are mostly apathetic, until and unless someone slaps them upside the head with "an issue".
These gun-owners make up the lions share of NRA membership and the NRA itself is the "someone" who slaps them upside the head with "an issue", e.g. "the big bad wolf" is trying to take your guns away, support us and we will fight the fight to preserve your Second Amendment rights, trust us.... Then these gun-owners get the NRA knocking on their door saying to them "well, we couldn't stop the whole bill, but we made sure it was not as bad as it could have been", by the way, your continued support is critical to the preservation of your Second Amendment, so please continue to supports us. WE, the NRA, will keep you informed about the dangers and the actions we will take to "stand tall" for YOUR rights, trust us...
Wounded Wolf is right. We shouldn't be supporting the Republicans because they are as broken as the NRA. I plan to write in Ron Paul in the fall, instead of voting for F- rated McCain, or the old govenor of Taxachussetts.
example: patric purdy incident in ca. result: no more ak's in ca.quote:Originally posted by dheffley
My problem with the NRA is, they've taken my money, given me promises, then sold me out every time the going gets tough. They don't even walk close to the line, they step over it and trample all the good work that has already been done.
Do they do some good, yes, but when it counts, they fold.
WTH fellas, I see just as much GOA rhetoric and propaganda nowadays as I see coming from the NRA! Both are which supposed to be standing up for our rights as Americans and protecting those rights. In my eyes they all have just turned into polititians! It is like a damn union that isn't worth a poop, it's not the members that are at fault, but yet the way and/or people representing those members. Whether you are a member of the NRA or the GOA, or etc. I will stand beside you, not for your organization, but for you, as Americans and Gun Owners. Just because a person stands with a organization that may have other motives doesn't mean they are intentionally underminding the rights we have. Don't lynch them for it because quite possibly they are just misinformed. In my opinion TrFox is just misinformed, and has become extremely hostile in defense of the NRA because of the hostility shown towards the NRA. It is most likely a lost cause to convience him otherwise now due to his stubborness.
And TrFox,
GET OVER IT!! Anything and everything will be BASHED at some point in time, whether it is justified or not.
What we need is less bashing of the NRA and more work at informing the current members of the NRA. If we can acomplish that then we as gun owners will be able to shift the power in the NRA to people that have the same motives as damn near everyone on here, PROTECTING THE SECOND AMENDMENT! When we acomplish that, then we can unite the NRA,GOA,etc.,etc. and show the GUN BANNING TRASH that we are motivated and will not allow them to fulfill their desires. Yes I will admit I am still a member of the NRA, and in fact am anxious to soon become a member of the GOA as well. But by no means does this mean I support the NRA's every thought, they are consistently bombarded by my disapproval on many subjects. I do disapprove on many of there so called successes, but at the same time I also commend them on some of their acomplishments that have helped to benefit us all. As time goes on the NRA has slipped deeper into blindsiding us, but it is time now that we stop this. Not by destroying them, this would not work to our advantage, but to reorganize the representatives of the NRA.
I hope that I have made some sense of what I am trying to say, it isn't always easy saying what you are thinking. The solution to a problem isn't always the destruction of the source!
The problem I see with your dissertation is one word you chose to use.
'Bashing'.
One mans 'bashing' is another mans' "revealing the truth of the matter."
I fully understand the dynamics of the situation..those of you supporting the NRA feel that any save glowing remarks of the NRA is bashing them.
I understand how those of us ripping the smooth, honeyed words of whomever is currently leading the NRA off...and showing the slimy underbelly...is resented by many.
GET OVER IT.
Much as a boil must be lanced in order to effect healing...the pus-ridden boil that the NRA has become MUST be lanced..if they are ever again to be capable of speaking for the Second Amendment.
Once again..I extend the hand of friendship to ALL that wish to support the Second Amendment. Join those of us resisting in whatever way we each are capable of..the forces of darkness and the Beast.
That, unfortunately, also now includes the NRA.
Trfoxs problem is rather simple. He supports gun control. That precludes him standing with us.and leaves him stranded with the NRA.
quote:Originally posted by Highball
Much as a boil must be lanced in order to effect healing...the pus-ridden boil that the NRA has become MUST be lanced..if they are ever again to be capable of speaking for the Second Amendment.
I have been making a similar argument for years. Thanks for putting it so eloquently.
I voted for Ron Paul in my primary two weeks ago here in Nevada. We got him a second place showing next to Romney, his best anywhere. He got more votes here than Hilary.
So what does it mean in the big picture? Nothing. Ron is a non-candidate at this point. The Repubs are down to McCain vs. Romney, and Romney is failing fast. Huckabee is making sure that the Liberal McCain is the nominee. So Highball's dream may come true. We may get another Liberal gun-grabber in office, pushing us closer to the breaking point.
Except that I have learned that the Liberals will never let this happen. Their game is INCREMENTALISM. The "final solution" will come during the generation of our grandchildren or great-grandchildren, in a time when Liberty and Freedom have become totally cliche. I am urging my California friends and family (and all other Super-Tuesday voters) to vote for Romney. Why? I know he is imperfect, I know he is inconsistent on the 2nd Amendment, but he is the closest thing to a conservative that the Republicans have left to offer. If Romney doesn't win, then John McCain will be portrayed as a wacko right-winger through this election and into any presidency he may win.
This nation will have shifted so far to the left that there will be no going back. Socialism will have surely taken a firm root. The only response will be for all of us to take up arms immediatley (which will be a vain effort because we represent such a small portion of the current population). Likely instead our kind will grow old and die. Our banter on these forums will be seen as an archaic throwback to a confused time, and our posterity will spit on our memory as an embarrasment to them and their New World Order.
quote:Originally posted by Highball
The problem I see with your dissertation is one word you chose to use.
'Bashing'.
One mans 'bashing' is another mans' "revealing the truth of the matter."
I fully understand the dynamics of the situation..those of you supporting the NRA feel that any save glowing remarks of the NRA is bashing them.
I understand how those of us ripping the smooth, honeyed words of whomever is currently leading the NRA off...and showing the slimy underbelly...is resented by many.
GET OVER IT.
Much as a boil must be lanced in order to effect healing...the pus-ridden boil that the NRA has become MUST be lanced..if they are ever again to be capable of speaking for the Second Amendment.
Once again..I extend the hand of friendship to ALL that wish to support the Second Amendment. Join those of us resisting in whatever way we each are capable of..the forces of darkness and the Beast.
That, unfortunately, also now includes the NRA.
Trfoxs problem is rather simple. He supports gun control. That precludes him standing with us.and leaves him stranded with the NRA.
Pretty good shooting there Highbail. You got both me and the NRA with one shot. Of course, and sadly, it could not just be a case of you and me, both gun lovers, being on the same side of the table in the gun rights war and both of us being against the REAL gun grabbers. No, you as usual have to carry your position to an extremen and make me, a gun lover, protrayed as a traitor to gun rights.
You are so extreme and angry I even wonder if you should own guns at all.
TR;
quote:Pretty good shooting there Highbail. You got both me and the NRA with one shot. Of course, and sadly, it could not just be a case of you and me, both gun lovers, being on the same side of the table in the gun rights war and both of us being against the REAL gun grabbers.
No, Fox..we are NOT on the same side of the table. A gun grabber is a gun grabber..you just wish to grab guns of other people..through the power of government.
quote:No, you as usual have to carry your position to an extremen and make me, a gun lover, protrayed as a traitor to gun rights.
Either you support gun control...or you don't. No such thing as being a 'little bit pregnant' either.
quote:
You are so extreme and angry I even wonder if you should own guns at all.
What you think of me is of supreme indifference in the scheme of things.
The fact remains that you support gun control. Just because you feel 'your' gun control is reasonable and good..doesn't change the facts at all.
Now..Freemind; I used to think as you do. Today, I believe that gun owners supporting gun laws are a greater threat then ANY avowed, out spoken anti-gunner. They represent a weakness in our position..and we are fighting for our lives here.
I could support taking guns away from gun controllers...on the basis that they are a deadly threat to our freedoms...FAR more then the unarmed anti-gunners.
Now..Freemind; I used to think as you do. Today, I believe that gun owners supporting gun laws are a greater threat then ANY avowed, out spoken anti-gunner. They represent a weakness in our position..and we are fighting for our lives here.
I could support taking guns away from gun controllers...on the basis that they are a deadly threat to our freedoms...FAR more then the unarmed anti-gunners.
I can honestly say Highball, that I 110% agree with your position. I have come to the conclusion that after TRYING to show those the error of their ways, I am usually unable to make them understand.
I await the rebirth of liberty. This time we MUST do a better job of clarifying the restrictions on the beast.
I am more than ready to water the tree, even if my own blood must be spilled in the process. Much like the first time, the second time will not be in vain.
quote: This time we MUST do a better job of clarifying the restrictions on the beast.
I have spent much time attempting to figure a way to regulate the Beast..were we to actually regain control of America.
A most imperative objective..one that would have to be instituted instantly..the day we won.
Arm chair revolutionaries disappoint me. Monthly (or at least yearly) they, for just one example, meekly allow the IRS to extort tax money from them. Extorted money that is then mostly wasted, spent by people who should not even have it, or just given to other countries that hate us, or given to Americans who just refuse to work.
And this happens on a regular basis and the armchair revoluntionaries full well know they are being robbed. Yet they can't even exercise enough power to put a stop to that government theft and waste. Yet they want me to believe they are just waiting until they can reveal their power and might and rise up and conduct an armed revolution against the very government that is now robbing them.
Go ahead and relax in that armchair and dream all you to whom this applies..
Now don't any particular person(s) get mad, because I explained myself in red.
TR,
You have a misconception of the "revolutionary" types.
They don't want to make war with "government" though they are smart enough to understand ANY government is an "evil".
No, a true patriot of the constitution DESPISES the politicians. Their anger is aimed at the "driver" not the "car".
You are also misconstrued to think that "arm chair revolutionaries" give meekly to the system. If you are employed, they take your paycheck and let you have back what THEY think is proper for you to have. The self employed are the ONLY ones that can avoid that. Look how well that worked for Ed and Elain Brown.
When people awaken, and they will, you can then put your theory to the test.
quote:Originally posted by freemind
TR,
You have a misconception of the "revolutionary" types.
They don't want to make war with "government" though they are smart enough to understand ANY government is an "evil".
No, a true patriot of the constitution DESPISES the politicians. Their anger is aimed at the "driver" not the "car".
You are also misconstrued to think that "arm chair revolutionaries" give meekly to the system. If you are employed, they take your paycheck and let you have back what THEY think is proper for you to have. The self employed are the ONLY ones that can avoid that. Look how well that worked for Ed and Elain Brown.
When people awaken, and they will, you can then put your theory to the test.
Not true at all. If you wanted to fight back badly enough, you could lie and raise your number of dependent deductions so high that then only thing deducted from your paycheck would be Social Security and Medicare. A total deduction of about only 7.65% as compared to the probably 15-25% that is being deducted from every working person's paycheck now.
Or, you, Highball and all the other revolutionaires could even file bogus tax returns and get back money that, while it doesn't belong to you, the government should not possess either. Or, you could lie on your tax return and get back all you paid in (except for the SS & Medicare already mentioned) or even more than you paid in.
Of course if you did any of this it would get you in trouble with the government. But for anybody willling to get into a shooting war with that same government, such tax trouble with the government should not bother them.
People like you, TR, would DEARLY LOVE somebody like me to do something stupid like that.
That way, you could point out to the REST of the people like you..90 % of the population..just how much I 'hated America..sorry sumbetch couldn't even be honest on his taxes'..after all.."I gotta pay My taxes"..
No..TR;..You are going to have to try some other form of discrediting me and my facts.
You see..I obey all the laws I can, today..speeding being one that is dicey..just SO people like you cannot use that as a club to FUTHER beat the Second Amendment about the head and shoulders.
No..I have no intention of sitting in prison and leaving the field to flawed, compliant people like you, TR...preaching your message of obedience to the Beast...rather then the Constitution.
When I go to war, TR;...It is going to be at a time where people like you have allowed your neighbors to be dragged away and shot..while you think seriously about informing the Beast about the guy on the OTHER side of the street with the guns.
You think that is ugly ? I am getting tired of your incessent promotion of gun control.
Comments
Some of these people around here are truly slower on the uptake than others, methinks....
What was the point of that???
Some of these people around here are truly slower on the uptake than others, methinks....
What was the point of me answering your question?
quote:Originally posted by gunphreak
What was the point of that???
Some of these people around here are truly slower on the uptake than others, methinks....
What was the point of me answering your question?
Actually no. I was in the process of replying above, and you posted before me.
Thank you for your honesty, Fox.
Now I'm going to tell you what I think...
You are right about the fact that the NRA made a huge mistake when they sided with antigun forces of any sort. This is not a good idea. It upsets those of us who will be divided on the issue, and many of us want the Brady bill and NICS dead; not revamped; not improved.
You see, neither of these bills accomplish anything productive. What they do is hinder those they should not be. Insisting on revising, or improving something like this emphasizes that it is needed, when clearly, it is part of the problem, if not the whole problem. If you have a broken bone, you don't break it even further in the hopes that it will fix itself. You see where I'm going with this.
We have a right to be upset, and a petition may be a good idea, but even moreso, it may be time to get an audience with the leaders of the NRA and explain to them how we feel about this, and urge them not to do it. The way I see it, one of their board members is not in favor of this; Ted Nugent. Love 'em or hate'em, he is right on this issue. He may be the man to contact, though he may not readily respond.
quote: How old are some of you guys? So old that I can remember when men had honor and respected their Fellow Americans. When people looked you in the eye when they spoke. When a man's word meant something. When a man's word WAS his bond and a handshake sealed a deal.
Old enough to remember when everyone knew everyone. Neighbor?? They had a name!! They looked out for you and could be counted on in time of need. And visa versa. (And here I refer not to just the people next door.) A time before the government tit ruled supreme.
Old enough to have witnessed the complete moral decay of a great nation. To have seen God removed from the vocabulary of a nation founded on the principle of freedom of religion. A time when life was held sacred and had value. A time when our youth were our future, and we cherished that thought. We made sacrifices to protect them and to secure their future well-being.
Old enough to remember when youngsters were taught to be self-reliant and responsible for their own actions. A time when parents made and enforced rules in the home. To break them had consequences and double jeopardy didn't apply if you violated even the most minor rules of society. You paid at home and then you paid the man. Yourself!! And you accepted that responsibility as a man.
Old enough to remember when schools were a place of learning!! Not the Nanny. Not the surrogate disciplinarian. And certainly NOT the moral/political indoctrination centers of today. Old enough to see parental rights usurped by the Board Of Education and children used as guinea pigs for the pharmaceutical Industry.
Old (and young) enough to remember when you didn't have to mail order a firearm. Old enough to remember when firearm ownership and hunting was considered a right of passage. When regardless of age and without a pile of paperwork, you could purchase a firearm, legally, practically anywhere. When every male classmate, and most of the females, owned a firearm of some sort. Old enough to remember NEVER seeing one in school. Not because everyone else was armed, but because it was irresponsible and there were consequences. A time when people respected the rule of law.
Old enough to remember the NRA was something country folks had little or no use for simply because they took the time and the personal responsibility of training their progeny/prot?g? themselves. They were free to exercise their rights. Old enough to remember the NRA as a revered organization even though they had already begun a tradition of compromise. As the migration from agrarian to urban life took place, city dwellers were more inclined to utilize membership in an attempt to perpetuate the time honored tradition. They joined, and enrolled their children for the training that was offered. So began the shedding of personal responsibility. So also, began the clout, in numbers, and the invasion by anti-gun life-members, like Levin, that brought us the era of gun control and lose of rights. And not JUST our 2nd Amendments rights.
Old enough to have seen the work and sacrifice of generations of Patriots negated/diluted by irresponsibility, greed, corruption and apathy. Old enough to know the difference between what this country used to be and what it has become!!
Old enough to see the direction in which we are being led and not like it. Old enough to know when enough is enough, stand up, speak out and do my part as a patriotic American to stop the total collapse of our society.
Old enough to be called an "OLD FOOL". And proud of it!!!
quote:I think we can put some blame on ourselves however, because our generation (you sound like you and I have been around about the same time) did not find a way to stop the liberal takeover. Maybe it was inevitable.
Oh yes. We failed to heed the warnings of the "Old Fools" of our youth. I can honestly tell you I have never voted for a Demorat in my life but I am guilty of allowing the lesser of two evil mentality to persist. Now I know how that Old Fool of MY youth felt when he tried to warn me.
quote:Divide and conquer. That's what the liberals are doing to us and that's what worries me about fellow gun owners criticizing each other.
History will verify it is always a successful tactic. There is, in every camp, a dissenting faction that allows ego to trump intelligence, self interest to trump common good and of course, those whom, for one reason or another, see compromise as victory. The liberals see this and feed upon it. As gun owners, all the good intentions in the world have led to nothing but more and more compromise. Until more gun owners finally realize they are being compromised out of all their rights the feeding frenzy will continue!
quote:It's hard to be optimistic about the future. I wish someone could convince me otherwise. If you're an "old fool" so am I.
I have been Mr. Optimistic, much to the chagrin of many here, but as has been obvious lately, even to myself, I too, am losing hope. The operate span of the average American is no longer than the last attack. If they can be rallied in opposition of something like a gun control bill, immigration reform etc..; they seem to ignore, or be indifferent when the same attack is made from a different direction or venue. The lack of concern is frustrating. The liberals are winning by wearing us down, constant attacks and, unfortunately, attrition.
quote:If you're an "old fool" so am I.
A title that I can finally appreciate the meaning of!!
Impossible for me to grasp how one that lived thru this can look at the present situation and still say with a straight face that the NRA has HELPED us.
Helped us...HOW..by greasing the way into slavery and tyranny ?
I have decided for MY part...I want NO MORE HELP like they have provided over the last 70 years.
Unless crawling on you belly, begging Daddy for permission to buy a gun, gives you some sort of perverse pleasure..
The utter INSANITY of standing by and allowing rotten Elites the power to know EXACTLY what, where, and from WHOM the threat to their ultimate takeover is..just blows me out of the saddle.
HOW could a populace of free men be so utterly stupid as to encourage, aid, and abet such abysmal degradation of the ideas of the Founders leaves me ice-cold.
Better to encourage the Elites to make their final grab NOW...let us see which side has the bigger balls.
If you want the job done right, do it YOURSELF.
What a concept in TODAY'S society. We have doled out our RESPOSIBILITIES so long to "organizations" they have forgotton what responsibilities are OURS(the people). It is OUR responsibility as AMERICANS to stand for what is OURS. Not the NRA, GOA, JFPO, ect.
You want to support an organization? Join a citizen's militia, or form one yourself. With LIBERTY comes RESPONSIBILITY, friends. The government is SUPPOSED to fear it's citizens, NOT the other way around.
Pro or Con ? I'll leave that up to the reader.
quote:One federal study estimated there were 215 million guns, with about half of all US households owning one. Such a staggering number makes America's gun culture thoroughly mainstream.
'They have made what was once unthinkable thinkable,' said Patrick, a liberal academic. He should know. He owns a gun himself. Even the US critics of gun culture are armed.
In the 2006 mid-term elections the NRA was able to back a historically high 58 Democrats running for office. Every one of them went on to win.
A close check of their voting records would not be a waste of your time. Every Demorat they backed in my state votes the party line on gun control!!
quote:Hence the fact that gun ownership is still a constitutional right, in case America is ever invaded and needs to form a popular militia (as hard as that event might be to imagine).
Even those who advocate much tighter laws have long accepted defeat of the ideal of creating a society where guns are rare in public life, or even completely absent. 'That notion is absurd. There is no way to de-gun America,' said Patrick.
http://www.alternet.org:80/rights/65194/
Oddly enough, I think this IS accepted fact among the Elite. Thuse the conditions leading to the easy expediture of BILLONS of dollars on 'Black Bag' technology...cheered on by much of the masses.
The useful idiots forget that when vast power is conferred on a few men...they misuse it.
The day will come when you may well eagerly line up to turn in your guns..(You being enemy of the state)..while the NRA and their supporters keep THEIRS...the NRA/supporters caring nothing about the Constitution..so they represent no threat to the State.
All after one of their black boxes is turned in your direction....
quote:Even those who advocate much tighter laws have long accepted defeat of the ideal of creating a society where guns are rare in public life, or even completely absent. 'That notion is absurd. There is no way to de-gun America,' said Patrick.
Oddly enough, I think this IS accepted fact among the Elite. Thuse the conditions leading to the easy expediture of BILLONS of dollars on 'Black Bag' technology...cheered on by much of the masses.
The useful idiots forget that when vast power is conferred on a few men...they misuse it.
The day will come when you may well eagerly line up to turn in your guns..(You being enemy of the state)..while the NRA and their supporters keep THEIRS...the NRA/supporters caring nothing about the Constitution..so they represent no threat to the State.
All after one of their black boxes is turned in your direction....
and it will be to late.......whenever it happens,in 2yrs.or twenty.
"If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen." ~ Samuel Adams
WHAT A PICTURE !!
PLEASE..please, please...somebody post this over to General..give 'em a shaking up again !!
Don't believe I have ever seen such a powerful message.
The only flaw I can see...do we know for SURE that Jeffeson said that ?
The only flaw I can see...do we know for SURE that Jeffeson said that ?
It seems as if he did. A few links to quotes sites, but no reference to whether he said it wrote it or when or where can be found.
Really cool but I don't understand why the creator didn't use the proper author. It would be just as good. Maybe someone here can photo-shop it and re-post.
If ye love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains set lightly upon you; and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen. - Samuel Adams
Quotes from America's Forefathers
(This page, 11th one down):
http://americanrevival.org/quotes/forefathers.htm
A second Source of Verification:
Samuel Adams Quotes:
http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/s/samuel_adams.html
do we have to follow blindly an organization that jumps into bed with the most antigun people on earth? why can't questions be asked and proposed bills be oposed without being called a hipocrite?
it seems there are some people on this forum who would jump off a clift if the nra officers told them it is a good thing to do. that is just plain dumb. each person has to decide for themselves weather they want to jump or not. when something bad is in the air i try to stay away. if you want to be a good little puppet be one, but don't call me a hipocrite because i ask questions and opose a bad law that is not needed anyway.
quote:Why do some people think a person have to be a registered democrat or republican to either support or not support an anti gun bill?
Do we have to follow blindly an organization that jumps into bed with the most antigun people on earth? Why can't questions be asked and proposed bills be opposed without being called a hypocrite?
It seems there are some people on this forum that would jump off a cliff if the NRA officers told them it is a good thing to do. That is just plain dumb. Each person has to decide for himself or herself whether they want to jump or not. When something bad is in the air I try to stay away. If you want to be a good little puppet be one, but don't call me a hypocrite because I ask questions and oppose a bad law that is not needed anyway.A very insightful post; the short answer being:
Because the MSM leads them to believe that way and they don't have the time (or the inclination) to investigate themselves, let alone question the motives!! The truth would burst the "bubble of comfort" they seem to live in and thrive upon. Until more people start to "question the motive" the politicians will continue support the motives of the lobbyists over the will of the people and the Constitution!!! Because they can!!
rsr1950:
quote:Why do some people think a person have to be a registered democrat or republican to either support or not support an anti gun bill?
Do we have to follow blindly an organization that jumps into bed with the most antigun people on earth? Why can't questions be asked and proposed bills be opposed without being called a hypocrite?
It seems there are some people on this forum that would jump off a cliff if the NRA officers told them it is a good thing to do. That is just plain dumb. Each person has to decide for himself or herself whether they want to jump or not. When something bad is in the air I try to stay away. If you want to be a good little puppet be one, but don't call me a hypocrite because I ask questions and oppose a bad law that is not needed anyway.A very insightful post; the short answer being:
Because the MSM leads them to believe that way and they don't have the time (or the inclination) to investigate themselves, let alone question the motives!! The truth would burst the "bubble of comfort" they seem to live in and thrive upon. Until more people start to "question the motive" the politicians will continue support the motives of the lobbyists over the will of the people and the Constitution!!! Because they can!!
Relative to the blind support and obedience that the NRA seems to enjoy from a large part of the gun-owning public, this simply goes back to the NRA's historical status. You know, the status as an American Institution, with the "institutional support" that accompanies that status. Kind of like the Repub and Demo parties enjoy, regardless of the direction and actions they take.
The "fact" that we would not have a Second Amendment if not for the NRA, right?
The comfort of knowing that the NRA has been "standing tall" for YOUR gun-rights since the late 1800's, right?
The sure knowledge that many in your family, Dad, Mom, Grandpa and Uncle Skippy, have ALL been "proud members" of the NRA, right?
The sure knowledge that with 4 million members, this proves that the NRA is looking out for us, doesn't it?
At least they are "trying" and/or DOING something, right?
These sentiments seem to be the norm among American gun-owners.
It is also important to remember that the vast majority of America's gun-owners are hunters, or those who have a few guns "just because we've always had guns" and/or "they were handed down from Grandpa".
These gun-owners are generally ignorant of constitutional matters, except in the generic sense.
These gun owners are primarily not "politically active" or savvy.
These gun-owners are like most right here on the GB Forums.
These gun-owners are mostly apathetic, until and unless someone slaps them upside the head with "an issue".
These gun-owners make up the lions share of NRA membership and the NRA itself is the "someone" who slaps them upside the head with "an issue", e.g. "the big bad wolf" is trying to take your guns away, support us and we will fight the fight to preserve your Second Amendment rights, trust us.... Then these gun-owners get the NRA knocking on their door saying to them "well, we couldn't stop the whole bill, but we made sure it was not as bad as it could have been", by the way, your continued support is critical to the preservation of your Second Amendment, so please continue to supports us. WE, the NRA, will keep you informed about the dangers and the actions we will take to "stand tall" for YOUR rights, trust us...
And so it goes.
My problem with the NRA is, they've taken my money, given me promises, then sold me out every time the going gets tough. They don't even walk close to the line, they step over it and trample all the good work that has already been done.
Do they do some good, yes, but when it counts, they fold.
Don't pee on my foot and tell me it's raining.[V]
And TrFox,
GET OVER IT!! Anything and everything will be BASHED at some point in time, whether it is justified or not.
What we need is less bashing of the NRA and more work at informing the current members of the NRA. If we can acomplish that then we as gun owners will be able to shift the power in the NRA to people that have the same motives as damn near everyone on here, PROTECTING THE SECOND AMENDMENT! When we acomplish that, then we can unite the NRA,GOA,etc.,etc. and show the GUN BANNING TRASH that we are motivated and will not allow them to fulfill their desires. Yes I will admit I am still a member of the NRA, and in fact am anxious to soon become a member of the GOA as well. But by no means does this mean I support the NRA's every thought, they are consistently bombarded by my disapproval on many subjects. I do disapprove on many of there so called successes, but at the same time I also commend them on some of their acomplishments that have helped to benefit us all. As time goes on the NRA has slipped deeper into blindsiding us, but it is time now that we stop this. Not by destroying them, this would not work to our advantage, but to reorganize the representatives of the NRA.
I hope that I have made some sense of what I am trying to say, it isn't always easy saying what you are thinking. The solution to a problem isn't always the destruction of the source!
Goodnight my brothers, and Good Luck to us all!
Jeremy
'Bashing'.
One mans 'bashing' is another mans' "revealing the truth of the matter."
I fully understand the dynamics of the situation..those of you supporting the NRA feel that any save glowing remarks of the NRA is bashing them.
I understand how those of us ripping the smooth, honeyed words of whomever is currently leading the NRA off...and showing the slimy underbelly...is resented by many.
GET OVER IT.
Much as a boil must be lanced in order to effect healing...the pus-ridden boil that the NRA has become MUST be lanced..if they are ever again to be capable of speaking for the Second Amendment.
Once again..I extend the hand of friendship to ALL that wish to support the Second Amendment. Join those of us resisting in whatever way we each are capable of..the forces of darkness and the Beast.
That, unfortunately, also now includes the NRA.
Trfoxs problem is rather simple. He supports gun control. That precludes him standing with us.and leaves him stranded with the NRA.
Much as a boil must be lanced in order to effect healing...the pus-ridden boil that the NRA has become MUST be lanced..if they are ever again to be capable of speaking for the Second Amendment.
I have been making a similar argument for years. Thanks for putting it so eloquently.
So what does it mean in the big picture? Nothing. Ron is a non-candidate at this point. The Repubs are down to McCain vs. Romney, and Romney is failing fast. Huckabee is making sure that the Liberal McCain is the nominee. So Highball's dream may come true. We may get another Liberal gun-grabber in office, pushing us closer to the breaking point.
Except that I have learned that the Liberals will never let this happen. Their game is INCREMENTALISM. The "final solution" will come during the generation of our grandchildren or great-grandchildren, in a time when Liberty and Freedom have become totally cliche. I am urging my California friends and family (and all other Super-Tuesday voters) to vote for Romney. Why? I know he is imperfect, I know he is inconsistent on the 2nd Amendment, but he is the closest thing to a conservative that the Republicans have left to offer. If Romney doesn't win, then John McCain will be portrayed as a wacko right-winger through this election and into any presidency he may win.
This nation will have shifted so far to the left that there will be no going back. Socialism will have surely taken a firm root. The only response will be for all of us to take up arms immediatley (which will be a vain effort because we represent such a small portion of the current population). Likely instead our kind will grow old and die. Our banter on these forums will be seen as an archaic throwback to a confused time, and our posterity will spit on our memory as an embarrasment to them and their New World Order.
The problem I see with your dissertation is one word you chose to use.
'Bashing'.
One mans 'bashing' is another mans' "revealing the truth of the matter."
I fully understand the dynamics of the situation..those of you supporting the NRA feel that any save glowing remarks of the NRA is bashing them.
I understand how those of us ripping the smooth, honeyed words of whomever is currently leading the NRA off...and showing the slimy underbelly...is resented by many.
GET OVER IT.
Much as a boil must be lanced in order to effect healing...the pus-ridden boil that the NRA has become MUST be lanced..if they are ever again to be capable of speaking for the Second Amendment.
Once again..I extend the hand of friendship to ALL that wish to support the Second Amendment. Join those of us resisting in whatever way we each are capable of..the forces of darkness and the Beast.
That, unfortunately, also now includes the NRA.
Trfoxs problem is rather simple. He supports gun control. That precludes him standing with us.and leaves him stranded with the NRA.
Pretty good shooting there Highbail. You got both me and the NRA with one shot. Of course, and sadly, it could not just be a case of you and me, both gun lovers, being on the same side of the table in the gun rights war and both of us being against the REAL gun grabbers. No, you as usual have to carry your position to an extremen and make me, a gun lover, protrayed as a traitor to gun rights.
You are so extreme and angry I even wonder if you should own guns at all.
You are so extreme and angry I even wonder if you should own guns at all.
It is responses like that, that make us wonder where you really stand.
I don't belive I have ever stated that, person X should NOT own arms. I doubt you will ever hear me say that either.
quote:Pretty good shooting there Highbail. You got both me and the NRA with one shot. Of course, and sadly, it could not just be a case of you and me, both gun lovers, being on the same side of the table in the gun rights war and both of us being against the REAL gun grabbers.
No, Fox..we are NOT on the same side of the table. A gun grabber is a gun grabber..you just wish to grab guns of other people..through the power of government.
quote:No, you as usual have to carry your position to an extremen and make me, a gun lover, protrayed as a traitor to gun rights.
Either you support gun control...or you don't. No such thing as being a 'little bit pregnant' either.
quote:
You are so extreme and angry I even wonder if you should own guns at all.
What you think of me is of supreme indifference in the scheme of things.
The fact remains that you support gun control. Just because you feel 'your' gun control is reasonable and good..doesn't change the facts at all.
Now..Freemind; I used to think as you do. Today, I believe that gun owners supporting gun laws are a greater threat then ANY avowed, out spoken anti-gunner. They represent a weakness in our position..and we are fighting for our lives here.
I could support taking guns away from gun controllers...on the basis that they are a deadly threat to our freedoms...FAR more then the unarmed anti-gunners.
Now..Freemind; I used to think as you do. Today, I believe that gun owners supporting gun laws are a greater threat then ANY avowed, out spoken anti-gunner. They represent a weakness in our position..and we are fighting for our lives here.
I could support taking guns away from gun controllers...on the basis that they are a deadly threat to our freedoms...FAR more then the unarmed anti-gunners.
I can honestly say Highball, that I 110% agree with your position. I have come to the conclusion that after TRYING to show those the error of their ways, I am usually unable to make them understand.
I await the rebirth of liberty. This time we MUST do a better job of clarifying the restrictions on the beast.
I am more than ready to water the tree, even if my own blood must be spilled in the process. Much like the first time, the second time will not be in vain.
I have spent much time attempting to figure a way to regulate the Beast..were we to actually regain control of America.
A most imperative objective..one that would have to be instituted instantly..the day we won.
And this happens on a regular basis and the armchair revoluntionaries full well know they are being robbed. Yet they can't even exercise enough power to put a stop to that government theft and waste. Yet they want me to believe they are just waiting until they can reveal their power and might and rise up and conduct an armed revolution against the very government that is now robbing them.
Go ahead and relax in that armchair and dream all you to whom this applies..
Now don't any particular person(s) get mad, because I explained myself in red.
He needs lots of supporters.
You have a misconception of the "revolutionary" types.
They don't want to make war with "government" though they are smart enough to understand ANY government is an "evil".
No, a true patriot of the constitution DESPISES the politicians. Their anger is aimed at the "driver" not the "car".
You are also misconstrued to think that "arm chair revolutionaries" give meekly to the system. If you are employed, they take your paycheck and let you have back what THEY think is proper for you to have. The self employed are the ONLY ones that can avoid that. Look how well that worked for Ed and Elain Brown.
When people awaken, and they will, you can then put your theory to the test.
TR,
You have a misconception of the "revolutionary" types.
They don't want to make war with "government" though they are smart enough to understand ANY government is an "evil".
No, a true patriot of the constitution DESPISES the politicians. Their anger is aimed at the "driver" not the "car".
You are also misconstrued to think that "arm chair revolutionaries" give meekly to the system. If you are employed, they take your paycheck and let you have back what THEY think is proper for you to have. The self employed are the ONLY ones that can avoid that. Look how well that worked for Ed and Elain Brown.
When people awaken, and they will, you can then put your theory to the test.
Not true at all. If you wanted to fight back badly enough, you could lie and raise your number of dependent deductions so high that then only thing deducted from your paycheck would be Social Security and Medicare. A total deduction of about only 7.65% as compared to the probably 15-25% that is being deducted from every working person's paycheck now.
Or, you, Highball and all the other revolutionaires could even file bogus tax returns and get back money that, while it doesn't belong to you, the government should not possess either. Or, you could lie on your tax return and get back all you paid in (except for the SS & Medicare already mentioned) or even more than you paid in.
Of course if you did any of this it would get you in trouble with the government. But for anybody willling to get into a shooting war with that same government, such tax trouble with the government should not bother them.
People like you, TR, would DEARLY LOVE somebody like me to do something stupid like that.
That way, you could point out to the REST of the people like you..90 % of the population..just how much I 'hated America..sorry sumbetch couldn't even be honest on his taxes'..after all.."I gotta pay My taxes"..
No..TR;..You are going to have to try some other form of discrediting me and my facts.
You see..I obey all the laws I can, today..speeding being one that is dicey..just SO people like you cannot use that as a club to FUTHER beat the Second Amendment about the head and shoulders.
No..I have no intention of sitting in prison and leaving the field to flawed, compliant people like you, TR...preaching your message of obedience to the Beast...rather then the Constitution.
When I go to war, TR;...It is going to be at a time where people like you have allowed your neighbors to be dragged away and shot..while you think seriously about informing the Beast about the guy on the OTHER side of the street with the guns.
You think that is ugly ? I am getting tired of your incessent promotion of gun control.