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quote:Originally posted by dan55362
quote:
If you had done your "research" as you claim, you would know that what I stated is not refutable.
I agree. The whining you state is not refutable, but your your topics are.
Have at it sir....refute away. Nothing you have said thus far has done it though.[;)] In fact, you aren't going to come out of the argument in good shape if you choose to go there. You may rationalize and justify, but refute......not.
quote:And before you try to turn this into a "yeah, well they have done more than you" smoke-screen, lets stay focused on the issue shall we. It isn't about me, it is about the NRA. I'm not a massive lobbying and hunters/shooters "rights" organization, claiming to be the "staunch defenders" of "YOUR Second Amendment Rights".
This one confuses me. If you don't consider yourself as a defender of the 2nd Amendment than why the hell do you care what the NRA does?
Somehow I am not surprised at your confusion. It is likely based on a reading comprehension problem and failure to focus on the issue and on what was actually said, rather than what you "thought" was said.
quote:I could give a rats * whether you "hate" the NRA or love the NRA. I am merely pointing out factual information, NOT regurgitating what the NRA spews to its members and what those members subsequently blindly spew to anyone who will listen.
If your merely pointing out factual information than why don't you point out the great things the NRA has done? It seems that you only point out the negative things about the NRA and put so much time and effort and go on and on about how evil the NRA is.
Oh boy.....I thought you said that you did research here on the forum and found only anti-NRA whiners. Perhaps you didn't "actually" research at all, but are merely stepping up to defend a group you believe in strongly, but that has had you fooled for a long time.
Facing the facts is kind of like finding out that your wife of many years has been secretly and regularly cheating on you since before you were married. That analogy fits the NRA and their actions pretty well actually.
Well sir, I have in fact pointed out that the NRA is a good organization in the areas of range development, firearms safety, youth firearms education, hunting defense etc...They simply suck as the self-appointed "staunch defender" of the 2A.
Since they have a clear history of deliberately facilitating the increasing government regulation and control into the RTKBA, the danger lays in the organization itself, as a whole.
Promoting any "good" things they may do only means that more unwitting people will support the organization, thus giving them more numbers, more credibility and more ability to do the absolute wrong things in the realm of gun-control that they consistently do.
Gonna be too late soon, but you go ahead and do as you see fit. By the way, how is the weather in the State of Denial?
quote:Originally posted by Highball
Well, Dan, it really disappoints you that you and your compromising buddies don't control the news any more, eh ?
Before the internet. one had to dig really hard to understand what was going on with the NRA...unless you looked at how we were steadily losing gun rights in this country.
Once again..the topic IS the NRA...the poster wanted to know the good/bad about the organization.
You may well wish to turn this discussion into an attack on individual members..that may well distract the simpler minded from the MAIN topic.
Whinning, Dan, is what YOU are doing..instead of refuting the fact that since 1935 the NRA has either agreed with or helped write most of the gun control laws we have existing in America today.
The NRA, Dan...the NRA.
THAT is the subject.
I agree the NRA has helped write most of the gun control laws on the books today, but If you think we would be less restricted today if the NRA didn't help write the laws you would be mistaken. I also agree that I think the NRA could have done more and should have done more. Now tell me if the NRA wasn't there helping write the laws where do you think the laws be today?
There are a few of what I would call extreme Anti NRA bashers (and they are easly spotted) on this forum and that's fine they are entitled to their opinions. They claim to only be posting the facts about the NRA, but why only the negative things. Why cant you guys post anything good about the NRA?
Pick up the American Rifleman, then go to the NRA website and wallow in all the good things being said.
This is the other side of the story ..brought to you by a very few with the balls to actually stand up to the endless attacks on their personal character by the NRA faithful ..which sometimes appears to be almost Messianic.
As far as your statement that
quote:Now tell me if the NRA wasn't there helping write the laws where do you think the laws be today?I think that we might well be back to the spirit and meaning of the Second Amendment as written ..WITHOUT government interference in out daily lives.had the NRA not compromised us away.
quote:Originally posted by dan55362
quote:Originally posted by Highball
Well, Dan, it really disappoints you that you and your compromising buddies don't control the news any more, eh ?
Before the internet. one had to dig really hard to understand what was going on with the NRA...unless you looked at how we were steadily losing gun rights in this country.
Once again..the topic IS the NRA...the poster wanted to know the good/bad about the organization.
You may well wish to turn this discussion into an attack on individual members..that may well distract the simpler minded from the MAIN topic.
Whinning, Dan, is what YOU are doing..instead of refuting the fact that since 1935 the NRA has either agreed with or helped write most of the gun control laws we have existing in America today.
The NRA, Dan...the NRA.
THAT is the subject.
I agree the NRA has helped write most of the gun control laws on the books today, but If you think we would be less restricted today if the NRA didn't help write the laws you would be mistaken. I also agree that I think the NRA could have done more and should have done more. Now tell me if the NRA wasn't there helping write the laws where do you think the laws be today?
This is the rationalizing and justifying that is always the end result when some of the facts are finally accepted.
The illogic in this admitted understanding is astounding. Kind of like..."Well I know my husband beats me really badly and pretty often, but I love him and I am sure he doesn't really mean it, after all, where would I be if it wasn't for him. How would I survive if I left him?".
There are a few of what I would call extreme Anti NRA bashers (and they are easly spotted) on this forum and that's fine they are entitled to their opinions. They claim to only be posting the facts about the NRA, but why only the negative things. Why cant you guys post anything good about the NRA?
I have answered the "why" in my above response to you.
Regardless, even though I have now been promoted to "extreme Anti NRA basher" (wow, I feel honored and do I get a pay raise?), this General in the "anti-NRA legion" HAS made mention of the good they do in a number of past posts.
That good is simply outweighed by the horrible damage they have done and will continue to do to Amendment II. Therefore, supporting them for the "good" they do, gives them the power and ability to continue to do bad. Nothing more, nothing less.
I just can't understand the idea of condemning the NRA for not doing enough when it has been the only organization that has continuously held the line against those that would kill the 2nd Amendment for the past 40+ yrs. For a hundred years has supported, trained and informed millions of gun owners and police and military. And this with only a fraction of gun owners as members. If only half of the gun owners in the US would join, you could vote in any leader, make any change and run any organized program the majority wanted. The NRA is about the only power that has kept you from being like England and Australia already. This "what have you done for me lately?" attitude is childish, ignorant and narrow minded, and I can't believe that people cannot see that they are helping the gun banners by this foolishness. So don't support the NRA, what are you doing that's better? I suspect that regardless of what anyone says or does we may have one more generation of private gun ownership in this country. Then we will not longer have a NRA or a country. You'll be happy then, right?
I did not join the NRA for more than twenty years simply because of the idiots that represented it at the local gun clubs. They are rheir own worst enemy and drove a lot of people away from joining. You just can't call people communists because they have questions about the organizatiuon or do not immediately sign and shell out the bucks to join.
I continue to see this same type of attitude by NRA recruiters at various public venues and I still question why I should belong having more than once been called a communist for not immediately joinging. How many others have not joined and left with a negative impression of the organization.
I am a member now and have been for the past 15 years except for a 2 year stretch when the NRA was bombarding me with telemarketers and junk mail...........so I cancelled my membership for some peace and quiet during the dinner hour.
I've been a member for a while. My feeling in mixed ... I think the NRA has done some good, maybe even a lot of good for gun owners. But I think they are also a bit paranoid! I don't think that we need to be able to purchase ANYthing just because it is a gun.
Could it be for the overall good that some things just are not accessible to anyone ... whether they are law abiding or not?
It is for the food of society that kids do not play with matches ... that you have to have a license to drive a car ... that they don't let me try to pilot jet planes or throw bricks off of tall buildings.
It is all about the MONEY. Money is the bottom line. Those top dogs in the NRA need to keep their fancy mansions and big cars and take 30 day paid (Business) vacations to Hawaii..Ask the NRA if you are a member for a financial statement.. I got one. what a freakin Joke that was..[:0] They bury everything under the guise of "General Operating fund" I ask for their financial report on saleries, Yep! got that one in a hurry, buried in a pile of crap crunched numbers that their accountant couldnt understand..
Some one ask what others that didnt belong to the NRA did, Well I can tell you here in Florida the
Gun owners have passed more favorable gun legislation than the NRA will ever attempt.. All without the Help of the NRA GOD..
Gun owners are going to lose serious ground regardless of who wins the election. The NRA holds politicians in awe because of it's large membership and vocal leadership. Regardless of your differences, they should have your support.
Long ago when studying how government works, we learned it was lobbyists and pressure groups that got things done or undone.
The NRA is our lobbyist.
Not long ago the only legitimate reason for gun ownership was for formal target shooting or hunting. We have since gained ground that will soon again be threatened.
Years back, I was faced with confiscation of my guns after dropping out of a target shooting club. The NRA refused to support my case so I dropped out for years.
Like many of you, I have issues with the NRA but I realize the Antis
need to be faced with a solid front so I now keep up a membership.
They may be far from what we'd like them to be but they are the only game in town and we need them.
quote:Originally posted by huntergarret
I just wish I would stop getting 3-4 phone calls a day making me out to be a bad guy because I won't send more money.
???
Never once have I receive a phone call????
I get some junk mail every now and then, It makes for good fire starter
so what??
We have done a lot of good things here at the range, threw NRA grants we have made shooting opportunities more accessible in this area. I don't see the GOA shelling out money to local ranges
NRA is good for small local ranges
GOA is good for fighting the anit's
Originally posted by fideau
I just can't understand the idea of condemning the NRA for not doing enough when it has been the only organization that has continuously held the line against those that would kill the 2nd Amendment for the past 40+ yrs.
I call Bullsnit on the above statement as to their actions. Held what line?
How about facilitated, compromised, supported and/or assisted in drafting gun-control legislation since the 30's?
How about being complicit in turning a God-given, fundamental right into a government granted, thus government revocable privilege?
For a hundred years has supported, trained and informed millions of gun owners and police and military.
Informed them of what?
They should have stuck to the training function, as they were formed to do. They are pretty good at that.
Instead, the NRA decided that they would self-appoint as the "staunch defender of your Second Amendment Rights" (as they like to trumpet). The problem is that they fail to recognize the basic and true meaning of Amendment II to the US Constitution.
The Second Amendment that the NRA "supports and defends" is one where it is perfectly okay for the government to regulate what, how, when, where and who can exercise the "privilege" to bear arms.
They support a different Amendment than the one in the Bill of Rights ladies and gentlemen. It is what it is.
And this with only a fraction of gun owners as members. If only half of the gun owners in the US would join, you could vote in any leader, make any change and run any organized program the majority wanted.
Bullsnit again. The organization has staked out the position as the "behind the scenes" facilitator for increased government regulation of all things firearm. This has been their pattern, except for a short period when the leadership was taken over by Knox and the "no-compromise" faction. They were quickly dispelled and it was business as usual and as it has been since the 30's.
The NRA is about the only power that has kept you from being like England and Australia already.
This "what have you done for me lately?" attitude is childish, ignorant and narrow minded, and I can't believe that people cannot see that they are helping the gun banners by this foolishness.
Gotta comment on this abortion. None of what I posted is about "me", got it? The issue is the NRA and the US Constitution, particularly and in this case, Amendment II.
What is foolish is that so many purported gun-owners and those who think they are supporting the Second Amendment, are the very group that consistently either willfully fails to abide by the provisions of the US Constitution and its Bill of Rights and/or are so abjectly stupid or ignorant that they have no understanding of its clear and simple meaning.
You folks are a danger to American Freedom with your consistent willingness to compromise away our basic and fundamental rights, whether in the name of "reasonable regulation", "public safety", "common sense regulation", the "public good" or some other such garbage.
It angers and sickens me that your ilk has the unmitigated gall to then attempt to hammer those of us who understand the basic meaning of freedom and the clear meaning and intent of our founding documents and who have the balls to step up and call a spade a spade, all the while getting attacked for doing so.
So don't support the NRA, what are you doing that's better?
Trying to get people like you to quit f**king up America's Constitution and our RTKBA, thats what I am doing that is better.
Much better than blind obedience to an organization that is slowly facilitating the destruction of our last and final hope of remaining a free people.
Much better than the NRA's continuing duplicity and their assisting in the erosion of Amendment II.
Much better than those of you who continue to throw support to an organization that supports gun-control.
I suspect that regardless of what anyone says or does we may have one more generation of private gun ownership in this country. Then we will not longer have a NRA or a country. You'll be happy then, right?[/b]
As to the NRA's existence, if it stays as it is and how it has historically been, we'd be better off without it. Then the former membership could join a group that actually supports Amendment II and give it the numbers needed to do some real good.
As to my being happy if America is gone, that is a ridiculous statement. That eventuality will only happen if those like yourself continue to do what you are doing, particularly, by allowing the NRA to take the insidious actions that it does.
Originally posted by fideau
I just can't understand the idea of condemning the NRA for not doing enough when it has been the only organization that has continuously held the line against those that would kill the 2nd Amendment for the past 40+ yrs.
I call Bullsnit on the above statement as to their actions. Held what line?
How about facilitated, compromised, supported and/or assisted in drafting gun-control legislation since the 30's?
How about being complicit in turning a God-given, fundamental right into a government granted, thus gevernment revokable privilege?
For a hundred years has supported, trained and informed millions of gun owners and police and military.
Informed them of what?
They should have stuck to the training function, as they were formed to do. They are pretty good at that.
Instead, the NRA decided that they would self-appoint as the "staunch defender of your Second Amendment Rights" (as they like to trumpet). The problem is that they fail to recognize the basic and true meaning of Amendment II to the US Constitution.
The Second Amendment that the NRA "supports and defends" is one where it is perfectly okay for the government to regulate what, how, when, where and who can exercise the "privilege" to bear arms.
They support a different Amendment than the one in the Bill of Rights ladies and gentlemen. It is what it is.
And this with only a fraction of gun owners as members. If only half of the gun owners in the US would join, you could vote in any leader, make any change and run any organized program the majority wanted.
Bullsnit again. The organization has staked out the position as the "behind the scenes" facilitator for increased government regulation of all things firearm. This has been their pattern, except for a short period when the leadership was taken over by Knox and the "no-compromise" faction. They were quickly dispelled and it was business as usual and as it has been since the 30's.
The NRA is about the only power that has kept you from being like England and Australia already.
This "what have you done for me lately?" attitude is childish, ignorant and narrow minded, and I can't believe that people cannot see that they are helping the gun banners by this foolishness.
Gotta comment on this abortion. None of what I posted is about "me", got it? The issue is the NRA and the US Constitution, particularly and in this case, Amendment II.
What is foolish is that so many purported gun-owners and those who think they are supporting the Second Amendment, are the very group that consistently either wilfully fails to abide by the provisions of the US Constitution and its Bill of Rights and/or are so abjectly stupid or ignorant that they have no understanding of its clear and simple meaning.
You folks are a danger to American Freedom with your consistent willingness to compromise away our basic and fundemental rights, whether in the name of "reasonable regulation", "public safety", "common sense regulation", the "public good" or some other such garbage.
It angers and sickens me that your ilk has the unmitigated gall to then attempt to hammer those of us who understand the basic meaning of freedom and the clear meaning and intent of our founding documents and who have the balls to step up and call a spade a spade, all the while getting attacked for doing so.
So don't support the NRA, what are you doing that's better?
Trying to get people like you to quit f**king up America's Constitution and our RTKBA, thats what I am doing that is better.
Much better than blind obedience to an organization that is slowly facilitating the destruction of our last and final hope of remaining a free people.
Much better than the NRA's continuing duplicity and their assisting in the erosion of Amendment II.
Much better than those of you who continue to throw support to an organization that supports gun-control.
I suspect that regardless of what anyone says or does we may have one more generation of private gun ownership in this country. Then we will not longer have a NRA or a country. You'll be happy then, right?[/b]
As to the NRA's existance, if it stays as it is and how it has historically been, we'd be better off without it. Then the former membership could join a group that actually supports Amendment II and give it the numbers needed to do some real good.
As to my being happy if America is gone, that is a ridiculous statement. That eventuality will only happen if those like yourself continue to do what you are doing, particularly, by allowing the NRA to take the insidious actions that it does.
+100
You are not going to be able to reason with these folks until they get their heads out of the sand and actually research the issue for themselves. They have absolutely NO idea of what is actually going on and they are content in existing in their ignorant blissful state. Apathy is what it is...and Apathy is what will destroy this nation.
Did you know that the NRA is also very much alive in the United Kingdom. They were so good in england that Handguns were banned 1n 1997.. Hurray for the NRA..[:(]
Look I am new to the fourm so I don't want to start crap with the pro or con NRA crowd but there is only a few org. that are standing up for gun owners and gun rights. The NRA is the largest, so I am and have been a member for about 9 years, so do I agree with everything the NRA does, no but they are still making compromises that allows me to own my firearms so until that changes I will pay my dues.
quote:Originally posted by Flowtom
but they are still making compromises that allows me to own my firearms so until that changes I will pay my dues.
LMAO!!!!
Really?
Let me 'splain something about "comprimise" as it relates to the Second Amendment.
Pro(NRA) and Anti(Brady bunch) go to the table. Anti tells Pro "We want the banning of ALL arms". Pro tells Anti"No, we have rights. Just take a little. Here is what WE will give away."
End of conversation. Pro (NRA) "comprimises" or gives up what we allready have. The Anti gains all and GIVES UP NOTHING. See why that view you have is foolish? As long as the NRA or ANYONE else GIVES AWAY rights, WE are the ONLY ones loosing.
well I see it didnt take me long to piss off the anti NRA people. Just like any forum, look we must agree to disagree on this one. I will continue to pay my NRA dues regardless.
quote:Originally posted by freemind
quote:Originally posted by Flowtom
but they are still making compromises that allows me to own my firearms so until that changes I will pay my dues.
LMAO!!!!
Really?
Let me 'splain something about "comprimise" as it relates to the Second Amendment.
Pro(NRA) and Anti(Brady bunch) go to the table. Anti tells Pro "We want the banning of ALL arms". Pro tells Anti"No, we have rights. Just take a little. Here is what WE will give away."
End of conversation. Pro (NRA) "comprimises" or gives up what we allready have. The Anti gains all and GIVES UP NOTHING. See why that view you have is foolish? As long as the NRA or ANYONE else GIVES AWAY rights, WE are the ONLY ones loosing.
quote:Originally posted by Flowtom
well I see it didnt take me long to piss off the anti NRA people. Just like any forum, look we must agree to disagree on this one. I will continue to pay my NRA dues regardless.
You think it honked me off? Wrong.
Yet you FAIL to tell me WHERE I am wrong with my statement.
So either correct me, or please admit that you just don't care about YOUR rights and the rights of all U.S. citizens. Buying a membership to a club doesn't make you a patriot. Paying someone else to care about your rights, doesn't protect them either.
I can agree with you post but I agree to continue to pay my NRA dues. Maybe I am misred about the NRA who truly knows on the internet, I respect your opinion. I am just saying I will continue to support gun rights and gun owners and if you are willing to show me another org. I will be a happy supportive member of such. I am glad I found this thread on the forum because we can all argue and to each other, but I hope you understand that I have already seen that regardless of how we feel about the NRA we all are gun owners and I would like to think we all stand for the same thing.
quote:Originally posted by freemind
quote:Originally posted by Flowtom
well I see it didnt take me long to piss off the anti NRA people. Just like any forum, look we must agree to disagree on this one. I will continue to pay my NRA dues regardless.
You think it honked me off? Wrong.
Yet you FAIL to tell me WHERE I am wrong with my statement.
So either correct me, or please admit that you just don't care about YOUR rights and the rights of all U.S. citizens. Buying a membership to a club doesn't make you a patriot. Paying someone else to care about your rights, doesn't protect them either.
quote:Originally posted by Flowtom
I can agree with you post but I agree to continue to pay my NRA dues. Maybe I am misred about the NRA who truly knows on the internet, I respect your opinion. I am just saying I will continue to support gun rights and gun owners and if you are willing to show me another org. I will be a happy supportive member of such. I am glad I found this thread on the forum because we can all argue and to each other, but I hope you understand that I have already seen that regardless of how we feel about the NRA we all are gun owners and I would like to think we all stand for the same thing.
Great, how about this proposal. You stop sending money to the NRA. Then you pick another organization to send your money to instead.
Like www.goa.org or www.jfpo.org or www.firearmscolition.org ? See, I don't mind so much a man/woman supports an organization to SUPPORT our rights (an UNCOMPRIMISING organization), but sending money to the NRA equates to sending money to handgun control. You really WANT to support Sarah Brady? The internet may be a place for information/misinformation, BUT if you do the research, you can separate FACT from fiction.
quote:Originally posted by moonshine
quote:How about being complicit in turning a God-given, fundamental right into a government granted, thus government revocable privilege?
and just where do you find that statement.
I didn't "find" it anywhere. I expressed what the NRA is complicit in.
Pick your favorite NRA "compromise of the day" and apply the statement to it. Hold up "background checks", "bans" on imports of certain ammo, "CCW laws" and many others to the statement and see how it fits.
When government is granted, or acknowledged, to have the power to "permit" a citizen to exercise what is a fundamental Constitutionally guaranteed right, then government has been given the power to revoke that "act"(formerly a fundamental right).
Take a moment and tell me about all the fundamental "freedoms" you have to keep and bear arms, that the government has no control of, or has no veto over, or has no regulation over and/or the ability to remove it from you by the stroke of a pen, or some bureaucratic decision.
Take another moment then, to explain how it is preferable and/or recommended that we support the NRA. Do this after your eyes are open to the cold hard reality.
Finally, explain to me what is "good" for America and for the RTKBA, about the NRA's support, facilitation, compromise, or their assistance in the drafting of such infringements.....how these actions are somehow "good" for America and how these action reconcile with Amendment II of the US Constitution's Bill of Rights.
quote:Originally posted by Flowtom
I can agree with you post but I agree to continue to pay my NRA dues. Maybe I am misred about the NRA who truly knows on the internet, I respect your opinion. I am just saying I will continue to support gun rights and gun ownersand if you are willing to show me another org. I will be a happy supportive member of such. I am glad I found this thread on the forum because we can all argue and to each other, but I hope you understand that I have already seen that regardless of how we feel about the NRA we all are gun owners and I would like to think we all stand for the same thing.
_________________________________________
If you support the NRA you support continual loss of gun-rights. There is no other way to put it.
We may all be gun owners, but we sure as hell do NOT stand for the same thing.
Not personal to you sir and not intended as an individual slam, but to those who either fail to see what the NRA is doing and/or those who can see, but who willfully ignore or disregard it....well sir, we don't stand for the same thing at all.
Many of us stand for freedom, harsh and "fanatic" as that "loonie-fringe" position may seem to many here. Those who knowingly ride the NRA Bandwagon stand opposite to those in my camp and opposite to the Constitution and its Bill of Rights, particularly Amendment II.
It is that simple.
quote:Originally posted by freemind
quote:Originally posted by Flowtom
well I see it didnt take me long to piss off the anti NRA people. Just like any forum, look we must agree to disagree on this one. I will continue to pay my NRA dues regardless.
You think it honked me off? Wrong.
Yet you FAIL to tell me WHERE I am wrong with my statement.
So either correct me, or please admit that you just don't care about YOUR rights and the rights of all U.S. citizens. Buying a membership to a club doesn't make you a patriot. Paying someone else to care about your rights, doesn't protect them either.
quote:Originally posted by Flowtom
Look I am new to the fourm
Being new here, you may not have read the link below.
At least the first page.
This is for the OP as well.
Captain;
That post of yours is a classic...the reply to Fideau.
Covers ALL the bases..and uses words as a sword to cut off ANY debate from a reasoning man.
Naturally, you will get lots of guff from those who don't....in fact, you are in FINE form throughout the entire exchange on this thread.
Thank you from the bottom of my heart for taking the time to compose your responses.
I have been simmering over here...debating with myself to do my typical 'thing' about this subject.....and indeed you have done it SOO much better then I ever could.
People, go back and read and REREAD the long post in red above...and the later one. You will hear the ring of truth as resoundingly as the ring of a pure ANVIL..one that is alive and responding to the blacksmiths' hammer.
That hammer is nailing the coffin shut on the myth of the NRAs' "Defending the Second Amendment' bullsnit....
quote:Originally posted by Highball
Captain;
That post of yours is a classic...the reply to Fideau.
Covers ALL the bases..and uses words as a sword to cut off ANY debate from a reasoning man.
Naturally, you will get lots of guff from those who don't....in fact, you are in FINE form throughout the entire exchange on this thread.
Thank you from the bottom of my heart for taking the time to compose your responses.
I have been simmering over here...debating with myself to do my typical 'thing' about this subject.....and indeed you have done it SOO much better then I ever could.
People, go back and read and REREAD the long post in red above...and the later one. You will hear the ring of truth as resoundingly as the ring of a pure ANVIL..one that is alive and responding to the blacksmiths' hammer.
That hammer is nailing the coffin shut on the myth of the NRAs' "Defending the Second Amendment' bullsnit....
Thank you for the kind critique Highball my friend.
Feedback like this from you is always welcome, since you give such feedback sparingly, it carries that much more weight.
I know that the individuals I am replying to are probably set so far in their ways as to be a lost cause, but those who happen to read OUR replies may be prompted to think about things a bit. If so, it is worth it.
On a lighter note, crank up and jump in on this. I like nothing better than reading your direct, often brutal, yet delightfully scathing posts. No one and I mean NO ONE, can cut to the heart of the matter like you do.
It is a beautiful thing to see.[;)]
Frankly, I am about out of gas on this thread, unless something new jumps out to get me going again.
Wow. Lot went on while I was gone. Expected it. Vitriol attacks are about all some people can do and then smugly think they are defenders of freedom. I think ripping the NRA is about all they care about doing. Fact is, the NRA didn't form its Legislative Affairs Division until 1934. It was to INFORM members of attacks on the 2nd Amendment that was going on at the time so that THEY (the MEMBERS) could take action. The NRA did not directly lobby for legislation until 1975 when the Institute for Legislative Action was formed. Whatever has happened since would have been far worse without them. Actually I had not even read the respondent's comments and was not directing anything at him personally. I appreciate other's opinions, I see no reason to be obnoxious about it. But I'm so happy I could bring some folks together by my little opinions so they could hug and snuggle each other in their dark little caves.
Fideau;
Think your reply was 'cute' ? That somehow you scored points with its dazzling brilliance ?
Let me clue you .it wasn't and didn't.
The good Captain treated you as a gentleman would.with kindness, given your position.
See ..any time a free man communicates with a subject, he tries to handle it delicately.until the subject attempts to impress the uninformed about the rightness of chains.
Now ..every time you and yours DO score points ..we free men lose more of our Rights ..and the more secure you folks feel.
The Real ENEMY isn't over in Washington, attempting to pass more gun laws.Nosir.
The real snake in the grass is the gun-owners out here that agree with most gun laws.
That is the real reason the NRA is still in existence ..the dirty secret being that most all the 4 million that the NRA brags about are gun-owners that have no problem what-so-ever wearing chains.
Cave..? Wish I lived in that cave. Then I wouldn't have to witness my fellow gun-owners selling out my Rights as an American ..and more importantly ..selling our AMERICA ..as they continue to support those that actively do so.
quote:Originally posted by pickenup
quote:Originally posted by Flowtom
Look I am new to the fourm
Being new here, you may not have read the link below.
At least the first page.
This is for the OP as well.
To no one in particular: When someone constantly rips the NRA, and openly declares the NRA is their enemy, have they not become the friend of the anti 2nd Amendment gerbils, who , like it or not, see the NRA as THEIR main enemy? "The enemy of my enemy is my friend." And so they aid the Bradys, etc. with their vehement condemnations. Better to support your choice and keep it to yourself than give comfort to the enemy.
SLFN-YOYO
The NRA is a lot like McCain: not my favorite pick, but the only one to get behind for the Big Fight. Better than nothing by far, and I realize it's easy for others to find fault with any political organization.
In an unrecorded voice vote the gun grabbing bill once known at HR
297, HR 2640 also known as "The Veteran's Disarmament Act" by Pro 2nd
Amendment grass roots organizations across America, passed, and will
soon be on the way to President Bush for signature or veto.
The bill calls for a guilty before being proven innocent program of
separating which Americans may realize the 2nd amendment and which may not. According to the bill any past, present, or future "thought
crime" may threaten your right to purchase or own a firearm. Without a trial!
The core of the bill's problems is section 101(c)(1)(C), which makes
you a "prohibited person" on the basis of a "medical finding of
disability," so long as a citizen or veteran had an "opportunity" for
some sort of "hearing" before some "lawful authority" (other than a
court). Presumably, this "lawful authority" could even be the
psychiatrist himself.
*Note that unlike with an accused murderer, the hearing doesn't have
to occur. The "lawful authority" doesn't have to be unbiased. The
citizen or veteran is not necessarily entitled to an attorney - much
less an attorney financed by the government. Children with past
diagnosis for ADHD, People diagnosed with Alzheimer's, veterans
dealing with PTSD and who seek psychiatric help, men and woman who are charged or suspected of domestic violence, and anyone currently under medication for psychiatric reasons what so ever. Are targets of HR 2640.
We are forcing people choose between what may be essential mental help and counseling, or their 2nd amendment rights.
Funding for implementation on a state level is based on a "secret
formula" set by the US Attorney General in order for the states to
obtain the funding necessary to pay for this very expensive data base.
We have alerted the public to the nascent no fly lists, the coming no
work lists, now we must alert you to the no gun list. We have in
effect become a nation of lists, in the order of Stalin's Russia,
Hitler's Germany, or Mao's China. Unless we want to realize the
communism, socialism, or fascism of these failed prison states, we
must act NOW or lose everything the United States of America and its
constitution stands for.
So where is the NRA in all of this? It was in fact the NRA that helped legislate this bill all along. They own this lock stock and barrel!
Here is what NRA spokesperson Rachel Parsons had to say about
supporting HR 2640 with Ted Kennedy, Chuck Schumer, Diane Feinstein,
Frank Lautenberg, and Carolyn McCarthy: "We want a clean bill. If this becomes a Christmas tree of gun control, we will absolutely remove support from this bill" Three months later they did NOT remove
support.
And this is exactly what we ended up with. A Rockefeller Center style
Christmas tree lit up with more gun CONTROL than all previous gun
control bills combined. Like thieves in the night, in a secret vote,
with NO PUBLIC debate, with no mention by all but one of the
Republican presidential candidates (that one is Ron Paul) with no
coverage by the big 5 media companies, without a care for liberty and
the Constitution. Our 2nd amendment rights have been put in the hands
of George W. Bush.
Keep your Powder dry and your Musket well oiled.
NRA Lifetime Benefactor Member.
quote:To no one in particular: When someone constantly rips the NRA, and openly declares the NRA is their enemy, have they not become the friend of the anti 2nd Amendment gerbils, who , like it or not, see the NRA as THEIR main enemy? "The enemy of my enemy is my friend." And so they aid the Bradys, etc. with their vehement condemnations. Better to support your choice and keep it to yourself than give comfort to the enemy.
Sorry..wrong again.
Better by FAR the enemy within be revealed for ALL to see..then to clasp the asp in a warm embrace, and allow others to think that ALL we gun owners are comfortable with gun laws...and eager for more, yet...
Allowing the gun-owning anti-gunners free reign to expound their anti-gun tripe without redress is deadly dangerous to the Republic.
I kept silent about the NRA for many years..until I gained enough wisdom to see the error of my ways. It is NEVER a bad thing to call out the snake in the grass for others to take warnings about.
Comments
quote:
If you had done your "research" as you claim, you would know that what I stated is not refutable.
I agree. The whining you state is not refutable, but your your topics are.
Have at it sir....refute away. Nothing you have said thus far has done it though.[;)] In fact, you aren't going to come out of the argument in good shape if you choose to go there. You may rationalize and justify, but refute......not.
quote:And before you try to turn this into a "yeah, well they have done more than you" smoke-screen, lets stay focused on the issue shall we. It isn't about me, it is about the NRA. I'm not a massive lobbying and hunters/shooters "rights" organization, claiming to be the "staunch defenders" of "YOUR Second Amendment Rights".
This one confuses me. If you don't consider yourself as a defender of the 2nd Amendment than why the hell do you care what the NRA does?
Somehow I am not surprised at your confusion. It is likely based on a reading comprehension problem and failure to focus on the issue and on what was actually said, rather than what you "thought" was said.
quote:I could give a rats * whether you "hate" the NRA or love the NRA. I am merely pointing out factual information, NOT regurgitating what the NRA spews to its members and what those members subsequently blindly spew to anyone who will listen.
If your merely pointing out factual information than why don't you point out the great things the NRA has done? It seems that you only point out the negative things about the NRA and put so much time and effort and go on and on about how evil the NRA is.
Oh boy.....I thought you said that you did research here on the forum and found only anti-NRA whiners. Perhaps you didn't "actually" research at all, but are merely stepping up to defend a group you believe in strongly, but that has had you fooled for a long time.
Facing the facts is kind of like finding out that your wife of many years has been secretly and regularly cheating on you since before you were married. That analogy fits the NRA and their actions pretty well actually.
Well sir, I have in fact pointed out that the NRA is a good organization in the areas of range development, firearms safety, youth firearms education, hunting defense etc...They simply suck as the self-appointed "staunch defender" of the 2A.
Since they have a clear history of deliberately facilitating the increasing government regulation and control into the RTKBA, the danger lays in the organization itself, as a whole.
Promoting any "good" things they may do only means that more unwitting people will support the organization, thus giving them more numbers, more credibility and more ability to do the absolute wrong things in the realm of gun-control that they consistently do.
Gonna be too late soon, but you go ahead and do as you see fit. By the way, how is the weather in the State of Denial?
Well, Dan, it really disappoints you that you and your compromising buddies don't control the news any more, eh ?
Before the internet. one had to dig really hard to understand what was going on with the NRA...unless you looked at how we were steadily losing gun rights in this country.
Once again..the topic IS the NRA...the poster wanted to know the good/bad about the organization.
You may well wish to turn this discussion into an attack on individual members..that may well distract the simpler minded from the MAIN topic.
Whinning, Dan, is what YOU are doing..instead of refuting the fact that since 1935 the NRA has either agreed with or helped write most of the gun control laws we have existing in America today.
The NRA, Dan...the NRA.
THAT is the subject.
I agree the NRA has helped write most of the gun control laws on the books today, but If you think we would be less restricted today if the NRA didn't help write the laws you would be mistaken. I also agree that I think the NRA could have done more and should have done more. Now tell me if the NRA wasn't there helping write the laws where do you think the laws be today?
There are a few of what I would call extreme Anti NRA bashers (and they are easly spotted) on this forum and that's fine they are entitled to their opinions. They claim to only be posting the facts about the NRA, but why only the negative things. Why cant you guys post anything good about the NRA?
Fine.
Pick up the American Rifleman, then go to the NRA website and wallow in all the good things being said.
This is the other side of the story ..brought to you by a very few with the balls to actually stand up to the endless attacks on their personal character by the NRA faithful ..which sometimes appears to be almost Messianic.
As far as your statement that
quote:Now tell me if the NRA wasn't there helping write the laws where do you think the laws be today?I think that we might well be back to the spirit and meaning of the Second Amendment as written ..WITHOUT government interference in out daily lives.had the NRA not compromised us away.
quote:Originally posted by Highball
Well, Dan, it really disappoints you that you and your compromising buddies don't control the news any more, eh ?
Before the internet. one had to dig really hard to understand what was going on with the NRA...unless you looked at how we were steadily losing gun rights in this country.
Once again..the topic IS the NRA...the poster wanted to know the good/bad about the organization.
You may well wish to turn this discussion into an attack on individual members..that may well distract the simpler minded from the MAIN topic.
Whinning, Dan, is what YOU are doing..instead of refuting the fact that since 1935 the NRA has either agreed with or helped write most of the gun control laws we have existing in America today.
The NRA, Dan...the NRA.
THAT is the subject.
I agree the NRA has helped write most of the gun control laws on the books today, but If you think we would be less restricted today if the NRA didn't help write the laws you would be mistaken. I also agree that I think the NRA could have done more and should have done more. Now tell me if the NRA wasn't there helping write the laws where do you think the laws be today?
This is the rationalizing and justifying that is always the end result when some of the facts are finally accepted.
The illogic in this admitted understanding is astounding. Kind of like..."Well I know my husband beats me really badly and pretty often, but I love him and I am sure he doesn't really mean it, after all, where would I be if it wasn't for him. How would I survive if I left him?".
There are a few of what I would call extreme Anti NRA bashers (and they are easly spotted) on this forum and that's fine they are entitled to their opinions. They claim to only be posting the facts about the NRA, but why only the negative things. Why cant you guys post anything good about the NRA?
I have answered the "why" in my above response to you.
Regardless, even though I have now been promoted to "extreme Anti NRA basher" (wow, I feel honored and do I get a pay raise?), this General in the "anti-NRA legion" HAS made mention of the good they do in a number of past posts.
That good is simply outweighed by the horrible damage they have done and will continue to do to Amendment II. Therefore, supporting them for the "good" they do, gives them the power and ability to continue to do bad. Nothing more, nothing less.
I continue to see this same type of attitude by NRA recruiters at various public venues and I still question why I should belong having more than once been called a communist for not immediately joinging. How many others have not joined and left with a negative impression of the organization.
I am a member now and have been for the past 15 years except for a 2 year stretch when the NRA was bombarding me with telemarketers and junk mail...........so I cancelled my membership for some peace and quiet during the dinner hour.
Could it be for the overall good that some things just are not accessible to anyone ... whether they are law abiding or not?
It is for the food of society that kids do not play with matches ... that you have to have a license to drive a car ... that they don't let me try to pilot jet planes or throw bricks off of tall buildings.
Some one ask what others that didnt belong to the NRA did, Well I can tell you here in Florida the
Gun owners have passed more favorable gun legislation than the NRA will ever attempt.. All without the Help of the NRA GOD..
evil NRA logo ^ (fake phone call)
Long ago when studying how government works, we learned it was lobbyists and pressure groups that got things done or undone.
The NRA is our lobbyist.
Not long ago the only legitimate reason for gun ownership was for formal target shooting or hunting. We have since gained ground that will soon again be threatened.
Years back, I was faced with confiscation of my guns after dropping out of a target shooting club. The NRA refused to support my case so I dropped out for years.
Like many of you, I have issues with the NRA but I realize the Antis
need to be faced with a solid front so I now keep up a membership.
They may be far from what we'd like them to be but they are the only game in town and we need them.
They supported Guilianni's presidential bid[8]
evil NRA logo ^ (fake phone call)
How did they support Guilianni's bid?
They invited all canadates to come speak
I just wish I would stop getting 3-4 phone calls a day making me out to be a bad guy because I won't send more money.
???
Never once have I receive a phone call????
I get some junk mail every now and then, It makes for good fire starter
so what??
We have done a lot of good things here at the range, threw NRA grants we have made shooting opportunities more accessible in this area. I don't see the GOA shelling out money to local ranges
NRA is good for small local ranges
GOA is good for fighting the anit's
join both
get the best of both
JMO
+100
You are not going to be able to reason with these folks until they get their heads out of the sand and actually research the issue for themselves. They have absolutely NO idea of what is actually going on and they are content in existing in their ignorant blissful state. Apathy is what it is...and Apathy is what will destroy this nation.
http://www.nra.org.uk/
and just where do you find that statement.
but they are still making compromises that allows me to own my firearms so until that changes I will pay my dues.
LMAO!!!!
Really?
Let me 'splain something about "comprimise" as it relates to the Second Amendment.
Pro(NRA) and Anti(Brady bunch) go to the table. Anti tells Pro "We want the banning of ALL arms". Pro tells Anti"No, we have rights. Just take a little. Here is what WE will give away."
End of conversation. Pro (NRA) "comprimises" or gives up what we allready have. The Anti gains all and GIVES UP NOTHING. See why that view you have is foolish? As long as the NRA or ANYONE else GIVES AWAY rights, WE are the ONLY ones loosing.
Why is this so hard for people to understand?
GOA = the common man [;)]
quote:Originally posted by freemind
quote:Originally posted by Flowtom
but they are still making compromises that allows me to own my firearms so until that changes I will pay my dues.
LMAO!!!!
Really?
Let me 'splain something about "comprimise" as it relates to the Second Amendment.
Pro(NRA) and Anti(Brady bunch) go to the table. Anti tells Pro "We want the banning of ALL arms". Pro tells Anti"No, we have rights. Just take a little. Here is what WE will give away."
End of conversation. Pro (NRA) "comprimises" or gives up what we allready have. The Anti gains all and GIVES UP NOTHING. See why that view you have is foolish? As long as the NRA or ANYONE else GIVES AWAY rights, WE are the ONLY ones loosing.
Why is this so hard for people to understand?
well I see it didnt take me long to piss off the anti NRA people. Just like any forum, look we must agree to disagree on this one. I will continue to pay my NRA dues regardless.
You think it honked me off? Wrong.
Yet you FAIL to tell me WHERE I am wrong with my statement.
So either correct me, or please admit that you just don't care about YOUR rights and the rights of all U.S. citizens. Buying a membership to a club doesn't make you a patriot. Paying someone else to care about your rights, doesn't protect them either.
quote:Originally posted by freemind
quote:Originally posted by Flowtom
well I see it didnt take me long to piss off the anti NRA people. Just like any forum, look we must agree to disagree on this one. I will continue to pay my NRA dues regardless.
You think it honked me off? Wrong.
Yet you FAIL to tell me WHERE I am wrong with my statement.
So either correct me, or please admit that you just don't care about YOUR rights and the rights of all U.S. citizens. Buying a membership to a club doesn't make you a patriot. Paying someone else to care about your rights, doesn't protect them either.
I can agree with you post but I agree to continue to pay my NRA dues. Maybe I am misred about the NRA who truly knows on the internet, I respect your opinion. I am just saying I will continue to support gun rights and gun owners and if you are willing to show me another org. I will be a happy supportive member of such. I am glad I found this thread on the forum because we can all argue and to each other, but I hope you understand that I have already seen that regardless of how we feel about the NRA we all are gun owners and I would like to think we all stand for the same thing.
Great, how about this proposal. You stop sending money to the NRA. Then you pick another organization to send your money to instead.
Like www.goa.org or www.jfpo.org or www.firearmscolition.org ? See, I don't mind so much a man/woman supports an organization to SUPPORT our rights (an UNCOMPRIMISING organization), but sending money to the NRA equates to sending money to handgun control. You really WANT to support Sarah Brady? The internet may be a place for information/misinformation, BUT if you do the research, you can separate FACT from fiction.
quote:How about being complicit in turning a God-given, fundamental right into a government granted, thus government revocable privilege?
and just where do you find that statement.
I didn't "find" it anywhere. I expressed what the NRA is complicit in.
Pick your favorite NRA "compromise of the day" and apply the statement to it. Hold up "background checks", "bans" on imports of certain ammo, "CCW laws" and many others to the statement and see how it fits.
When government is granted, or acknowledged, to have the power to "permit" a citizen to exercise what is a fundamental Constitutionally guaranteed right, then government has been given the power to revoke that "act"(formerly a fundamental right).
Take a moment and tell me about all the fundamental "freedoms" you have to keep and bear arms, that the government has no control of, or has no veto over, or has no regulation over and/or the ability to remove it from you by the stroke of a pen, or some bureaucratic decision.
Take another moment then, to explain how it is preferable and/or recommended that we support the NRA. Do this after your eyes are open to the cold hard reality.
Finally, explain to me what is "good" for America and for the RTKBA, about the NRA's support, facilitation, compromise, or their assistance in the drafting of such infringements.....how these actions are somehow "good" for America and how these action reconcile with Amendment II of the US Constitution's Bill of Rights.
I'll be curious to see the answers.
I can agree with you post but I agree to continue to pay my NRA dues. Maybe I am misred about the NRA who truly knows on the internet, I respect your opinion. I am just saying I will continue to support gun rights and gun ownersand if you are willing to show me another org. I will be a happy supportive member of such. I am glad I found this thread on the forum because we can all argue and to each other, but I hope you understand that I have already seen that regardless of how we feel about the NRA we all are gun owners and I would like to think we all stand for the same thing.
_________________________________________
If you support the NRA you support continual loss of gun-rights. There is no other way to put it.
We may all be gun owners, but we sure as hell do NOT stand for the same thing.
Not personal to you sir and not intended as an individual slam, but to those who either fail to see what the NRA is doing and/or those who can see, but who willfully ignore or disregard it....well sir, we don't stand for the same thing at all.
Many of us stand for freedom, harsh and "fanatic" as that "loonie-fringe" position may seem to many here. Those who knowingly ride the NRA Bandwagon stand opposite to those in my camp and opposite to the Constitution and its Bill of Rights, particularly Amendment II.
It is that simple.
quote:Originally posted by freemind
quote:Originally posted by Flowtom
well I see it didnt take me long to piss off the anti NRA people. Just like any forum, look we must agree to disagree on this one. I will continue to pay my NRA dues regardless.
You think it honked me off? Wrong.
Yet you FAIL to tell me WHERE I am wrong with my statement.
So either correct me, or please admit that you just don't care about YOUR rights and the rights of all U.S. citizens. Buying a membership to a club doesn't make you a patriot. Paying someone else to care about your rights, doesn't protect them either.
Look I am new to the fourm
Being new here, you may not have read the link below.
At least the first page.
This is for the OP as well.
http://forums.gunbroker.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=263795
That post of yours is a classic...the reply to Fideau.
Covers ALL the bases..and uses words as a sword to cut off ANY debate from a reasoning man.
Naturally, you will get lots of guff from those who don't....in fact, you are in FINE form throughout the entire exchange on this thread.
Thank you from the bottom of my heart for taking the time to compose your responses.
I have been simmering over here...debating with myself to do my typical 'thing' about this subject.....and indeed you have done it SOO much better then I ever could.
People, go back and read and REREAD the long post in red above...and the later one. You will hear the ring of truth as resoundingly as the ring of a pure ANVIL..one that is alive and responding to the blacksmiths' hammer.
That hammer is nailing the coffin shut on the myth of the NRAs' "Defending the Second Amendment' bullsnit....
Captain;
That post of yours is a classic...the reply to Fideau.
Covers ALL the bases..and uses words as a sword to cut off ANY debate from a reasoning man.
Naturally, you will get lots of guff from those who don't....in fact, you are in FINE form throughout the entire exchange on this thread.
Thank you from the bottom of my heart for taking the time to compose your responses.
I have been simmering over here...debating with myself to do my typical 'thing' about this subject.....and indeed you have done it SOO much better then I ever could.
People, go back and read and REREAD the long post in red above...and the later one. You will hear the ring of truth as resoundingly as the ring of a pure ANVIL..one that is alive and responding to the blacksmiths' hammer.
That hammer is nailing the coffin shut on the myth of the NRAs' "Defending the Second Amendment' bullsnit....
Thank you for the kind critique Highball my friend.
Feedback like this from you is always welcome, since you give such feedback sparingly, it carries that much more weight.
I know that the individuals I am replying to are probably set so far in their ways as to be a lost cause, but those who happen to read OUR replies may be prompted to think about things a bit. If so, it is worth it.
On a lighter note, crank up and jump in on this. I like nothing better than reading your direct, often brutal, yet delightfully scathing posts. No one and I mean NO ONE, can cut to the heart of the matter like you do.
It is a beautiful thing to see.[;)]
Frankly, I am about out of gas on this thread, unless something new jumps out to get me going again.
Think your reply was 'cute' ? That somehow you scored points with its dazzling brilliance ?
Let me clue you .it wasn't and didn't.
The good Captain treated you as a gentleman would.with kindness, given your position.
See ..any time a free man communicates with a subject, he tries to handle it delicately.until the subject attempts to impress the uninformed about the rightness of chains.
Now ..every time you and yours DO score points ..we free men lose more of our Rights ..and the more secure you folks feel.
The Real ENEMY isn't over in Washington, attempting to pass more gun laws.Nosir.
The real snake in the grass is the gun-owners out here that agree with most gun laws.
That is the real reason the NRA is still in existence ..the dirty secret being that most all the 4 million that the NRA brags about are gun-owners that have no problem what-so-ever wearing chains.
Cave..? Wish I lived in that cave. Then I wouldn't have to witness my fellow gun-owners selling out my Rights as an American ..and more importantly ..selling our AMERICA ..as they continue to support those that actively do so.
The Jabberwodk with eyes of flame,
Came whiffling through the tulgey wood,
And burbled as it came.
quote:Originally posted by pickenup
quote:Originally posted by Flowtom
Look I am new to the fourm
Being new here, you may not have read the link below.
At least the first page.
This is for the OP as well.
http://forums.gunbroker.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=263795
SLFN-YOYO
HR. 2640 AKA: THE VETERAN'S DISARMAMENT ACT 2008
In an unrecorded voice vote the gun grabbing bill once known at HR
297, HR 2640 also known as "The Veteran's Disarmament Act" by Pro 2nd
Amendment grass roots organizations across America, passed, and will
soon be on the way to President Bush for signature or veto.
The bill calls for a guilty before being proven innocent program of
separating which Americans may realize the 2nd amendment and which may not. According to the bill any past, present, or future "thought
crime" may threaten your right to purchase or own a firearm. Without a trial!
The core of the bill's problems is section 101(c)(1)(C), which makes
you a "prohibited person" on the basis of a "medical finding of
disability," so long as a citizen or veteran had an "opportunity" for
some sort of "hearing" before some "lawful authority" (other than a
court). Presumably, this "lawful authority" could even be the
psychiatrist himself.
*Note that unlike with an accused murderer, the hearing doesn't have
to occur. The "lawful authority" doesn't have to be unbiased. The
citizen or veteran is not necessarily entitled to an attorney - much
less an attorney financed by the government. Children with past
diagnosis for ADHD, People diagnosed with Alzheimer's, veterans
dealing with PTSD and who seek psychiatric help, men and woman who are charged or suspected of domestic violence, and anyone currently under medication for psychiatric reasons what so ever. Are targets of HR 2640.
We are forcing people choose between what may be essential mental help and counseling, or their 2nd amendment rights.
Funding for implementation on a state level is based on a "secret
formula" set by the US Attorney General in order for the states to
obtain the funding necessary to pay for this very expensive data base.
We have alerted the public to the nascent no fly lists, the coming no
work lists, now we must alert you to the no gun list. We have in
effect become a nation of lists, in the order of Stalin's Russia,
Hitler's Germany, or Mao's China. Unless we want to realize the
communism, socialism, or fascism of these failed prison states, we
must act NOW or lose everything the United States of America and its
constitution stands for.
So where is the NRA in all of this? It was in fact the NRA that helped legislate this bill all along. They own this lock stock and barrel!
Here is what NRA spokesperson Rachel Parsons had to say about
supporting HR 2640 with Ted Kennedy, Chuck Schumer, Diane Feinstein,
Frank Lautenberg, and Carolyn McCarthy: "We want a clean bill. If this becomes a Christmas tree of gun control, we will absolutely remove support from this bill" Three months later they did NOT remove
support.
And this is exactly what we ended up with. A Rockefeller Center style
Christmas tree lit up with more gun CONTROL than all previous gun
control bills combined. Like thieves in the night, in a secret vote,
with NO PUBLIC debate, with no mention by all but one of the
Republican presidential candidates (that one is Ron Paul) with no
coverage by the big 5 media companies, without a care for liberty and
the Constitution. Our 2nd amendment rights have been put in the hands
of George W. Bush.
NRA Lifetime Benefactor Member.
Sorry..wrong again.
Better by FAR the enemy within be revealed for ALL to see..then to clasp the asp in a warm embrace, and allow others to think that ALL we gun owners are comfortable with gun laws...and eager for more, yet...
Allowing the gun-owning anti-gunners free reign to expound their anti-gun tripe without redress is deadly dangerous to the Republic.
I kept silent about the NRA for many years..until I gained enough wisdom to see the error of my ways. It is NEVER a bad thing to call out the snake in the grass for others to take warnings about.
Did ghyre and gimble in the wabe,
All mimsy were the borogoves,
And the mome raths outgrabe.