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Wildcat 12GA From Hell.--

15681011

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    hubel458hubel458 Member Posts: 427 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Here is a neat idea for a 5 shot 12ga,
    a 12ga revolver. Nice looking gun.
    Also I found a company that would rebore 10ga
    NEF heavy barreled guns to 8ga, if they can
    get 5-6 guys lined up to do it, so that they can
    make tooling and charge less than
    300 bucks to do it. Delta Reboring.
    Let me know and we'll get arrangements made
    if enough are interested.I have two now.ED

    zrevolver.bmp
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    quickmajikquickmajik Member Posts: 16,324
    edited November -1
    This is some amazing stuff. Thank you..
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    hubel458hubel458 Member Posts: 427 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    The long brass 10GA FH case shown above has a Lyman
    slug in a thickwall 10ga steel shotcup that BPI sells.
    That's a 12ga 525gr Lyman.Makes nice lighter slug for 10ga.
    The slug has bottom chamfered to set in cup tight
    and a little epoxy makes it one piece that makes it a discarding
    sabot style like a SPW. That makes it front heavy so that it
    is as accurate as Brenekke KOs in smoothbore. I'm
    also working with a guys to cast long hollowbase 10ga slugs
    like the ones Federal loads. We are figuring out molds now,
    will probably make slugs about 850gr. Here is picture of
    my 10GA FH NEF with long brass case started in the chamber.
    Chamber is set for that 4.050" brass case and will shoot 3.5"
    plastic cases also. I am going to put on a thumbhole Survivor
    stock like I have on NEF 8ga we did.Ed

    10gafhbg
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    hubel458hubel458 Member Posts: 427 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    e talk about liking the use of heavier slug barrels
    in using our slow powder and handling recoil better.
    Guy out west has this heavy muzzled, Hastings, rifled
    barrel, for his REM 870. In first pic is a comparison to the
    original 870 barrel. It shows a muzzle as heavy as on
    a NEF Ultra Slug GUN. 2nd picture is the gun itself.
    That makes a neat slug gun..Ed

    maw1.jpg

    maw2.jpg
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    hubel458hubel458 Member Posts: 427 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    The heavy rifled barrel in previous post was made by
    Hastings for the Remington 870. It is 26" long and a
    muzzle diameter of over an inch. Hastings is gone now,
    but we'd like to find some of these barrels. The Hastings
    number of the barrel is 560H90.

    In the meantime Remington has come out with their
    SPS Super Magnum Slug Gun with 25.5" rifled barrel and
    a 1" diameter muzzle, with more solid barrel, and extra
    pins in mounting barrel, so a scope can be put on action. Ed

    main-1933.jpg
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    hubel458hubel458 Member Posts: 427 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I am now putting a 3.5" 20ga on the FBW action.
    We are having RMC make 3.5" brass 20ga cases. I also
    bought a huge box of 3.5" plastic case Hastings
    hot rod sabot slugs at their out if business auction.
    Picture is of FBW with brass case in the feed trough.
    Any wanting to do 20 ga brass cases, at same time,
    contact RMC, they'd like to make a big batch this spring..
    I also got few of the cases to make the 10ga FH
    brass 4.050" long case. Anyone wanting one. I'll part
    with them, but I'll only will have a few. The brass is hard
    to find and costly.. Ed

    nfb600.jpg
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    hubel458hubel458 Member Posts: 427 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I get asked about presses used for big cases.
    Here is a picture of my 2 big presses on
    the heavy bench, with the case spinner/lathe
    on the back of the bench. Blue one is a Walnut
    Hill and the green is beefed up Ammomaster.
    Both are braced so I can lean on them.Bench is
    braced to wall supports and benches behind.

    You can see the expanders laid out on the press
    brace arms, and a whole bunch of shorty dies laid
    out, that fit everything from 10ga down to
    my 700HE. And variety of large cases and real large
    4ga dies and parts I work with. On the right is a
    stack of my 585HE dies in the die boxes.Ed

    ben1.jpg
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    hubel458hubel458 Member Posts: 427 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Now might get real exciting load developement wise,
    If we could make brass cases as long as the paper
    one on the right. In picture is 3.5" 10ga plastic
    case, our 10GA FH brass 4.05" case I made by putting
    a 10ga basecup on 50cal Russian brass, and third
    a 6" long 10ga bomb disposal case used to shoot
    liquid/gel in to bomb packages, I think.
    Anyone knows for sure let me know.ED

    10ga6.jpg
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    CbtEngr01CbtEngr01 Member Posts: 4,340
    edited November -1
    Sure hope you have a muzzle break
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    hubel458hubel458 Member Posts: 427 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    On the bigger stuff I port the top of barrel.
    Here is picture showing surplus 50 Russian case before
    and the 10ga brass case we make using it with
    10ga bases pressed and epoxied on and expanding
    case out straight, making the 4.050" long
    10ga case.Makes a great 10ga FH...ED

    10gafhbef.jpg
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    hubel458hubel458 Member Posts: 427 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    We have put 4 different cartridges in the Savage 210
    bolt gun. We added various 12ga and .700"
    heavy thick barrels.
    The first was our 12ga FH long case.
    The second was my 700H 3.25" belted case.
    Third was the 3.5" 12ga that Bret did, and
    fourth is the 700NE that we wanted to see
    how it works. It shoots fine, has weighted stock,
    and a 27 inch barrel.Has a double thick pad.
    I even have cast slugs for 700.
    Cases are expensive, ones in picture are
    20 bucks each...Ed

    matt700.jpg
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    hubel458hubel458 Member Posts: 427 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Here is picture of my Mossy 695 that has heavy barrel for
    the our long 12ga cases, in fact it chambers the 12ga
    belted shown in picture ok that I use for testing.
    I set chamber to do belted as well as rimmed.

    Second picture is some of my 585 Short HE cases, that work
    great in regular length actions.We have these in Ruger,
    Enfields, Mausers already. I have available supply of
    brass for these of about 8-9000. Ed

    mobelt.jpg

    585shbr.jpg
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    hubel458hubel458 Member Posts: 427 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Getting to some more 4ga/bore work.With barrel and
    falling block action locked down fired off some blank
    type loads to test the breach and firing pin I set up.
    I fired it by hitting the back of firing pin with a rod,
    as I now have get hammer and trigger setup. Firing pin
    dents primers ok, breach works and headspace is ok.

    For loads I have wads to take up space above powder.
    Others with same 4ga case in doubles fill case about
    1/6 full of Blue Dot (110gr), with 2000gr slug.

    I'll use 1600 gr hollowbase slugs, with about 1/3 of a case
    of IMR 4759 or 1/2 to 5/8 case of RE17, rest filled
    with fiber wads.These are shotgun primer loads and I will be
    using THE STRONGER PRIMERS OF KILN CASES at about same
    price as BMG primers. And I have BMG primer cases also
    that I will test also, once gun is finished in a few weeks.Ed
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    GONESHOOTINGGONESHOOTING Member Posts: 2,450 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
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    hubel458hubel458 Member Posts: 427 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Fired 4bore with 760 gr light round ball with
    fiber wads under it, using 150gr Blue Dot
    and shotgun primer case. Just starting loads
    for testing operation. Hardly no recoil,
    like a heavy, beefed up blank load,
    could go much higher with that light
    of round ball. Will have pics of the muzzle
    blast and the gun shooting from the side,
    using heavier slugs in a week or so.
    In Owen's 4bore double,that uses same case
    size they use max of 110gr of Blue Dot
    with 2000 gr slug. Ed

    phbbl.jpg
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    hubel458hubel458 Member Posts: 427 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Fired the 4bore with the 760 gr round ball,
    which is a hard rubber coated steel ball,
    thus the light weight compared to lead,
    using 100gr of Blue Dot under 300gr RE17,
    total 400gr. Hairy load, with 3500 fps, and
    20,000 ft lbs. Used the turned 4bore cases,
    with shotgun primers, and with that light
    projectile case doesn't need sizing. This is
    good beginning bullet weight for early testing.
    I am gonna do 1200gr and 1600gr holding the
    speeds to give about same energy.
    I won't load heavier until I get another
    stock like one I have that is full width.
    Also those who want 3.5" 20ga brass cases,
    Rocky Mtn Cartridge is making them now.ED
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    GONESHOOTINGGONESHOOTING Member Posts: 2,450 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by hubel458
    Testing some .660" diameter 630 gr hard cast
    slugs in the red WIN wadcup in 3.5" plastic
    case. Tested in rifled long barrel on the
    NEF about 2100 fps. Greg Sappington makes
    these. They are hollow point. 3" group at
    50yds, peep sight, bad eyes. I also fired
    a couple to see if they'd work in my long
    brass cased 16GA FH shown in the picture.
    They work ok, so Greg has a double duty
    slug.They'd work in 16ga plastic also.
    The 16ga was held at 1500 as the barrel
    isn't super heavy, on the Stevens 16ga. Ed

    gregsl.jpg
    [:)][:)][:)][:)][:)]
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    hubel458hubel458 Member Posts: 427 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Tested 4bore with a double ball load of 1250 grains weight,
    Used 100gr Blue Dot under 250gr of RE17, with card and
    one fiber wad. 2600 fps. Recoil not bad, just brisk.
    Used turned brass cases with shotgun primer, and cases
    still didn't expand base. just size top..
    Running about 23-25,000 psi.
    The light ball load in above post
    about 16,000 psi.. Ed
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    grady mitchellgrady mitchell Member Posts: 139 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    are you having to use a form 1 to make these guns thats over .510 bore from the batfe government people ??
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    408408 Member Posts: 16 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I was kinda woundering that myself. At what point does a shotgun become a rifle? Or worse yet a destructive device. Thanks
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    hubel458hubel458 Member Posts: 427 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Shotgun calibers are exempt from the
    over 50 cal DD rules as per--
    Title 18 GCA, Section 921.
    The other over 50 cal cartridges like my
    585HE and 700HE we got a sporting use
    exemption by applying to ATF, as per the
    same Section 921. Older over 50cal
    like 577NE are grandfathered in.Ed
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    hubel458hubel458 Member Posts: 427 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Some interesting shooting with 4bore.

    Double 760gr ball load of 1520 gr total, at 2300 fps.

    A buck and ball load, 6 45cal lead balls, 133gr each,
    and a 760 gr ball on top, 1560 gr total, at 2300 fps.

    Both loads 100gr BlueDot under 225gr Re17, In the
    turned brass cases, with shotgun primer.Recoil
    manageable, and like a big push. The sound isn't
    a boom like regular shotguns, but cracks loud
    like big bore rifles,at least twice as as loud.Ed
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    GONESHOOTINGGONESHOOTING Member Posts: 2,450 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Originally posted by hubel458
    Some interesting shooting with 4bore.

    Double 760gr ball load of 1520 gr total, at 2300 fps.

    A buck and ball load, 6 45cal lead balls, 133gr each,
    and a 760 gr ball on top, 1560 gr total, at 2300 fps.

    Both loads 100gr BlueDot under 225gr Re17, In the
    turned brass cases, with shotgun primer.Recoil
    manageable, and like a big push. The sound isn't
    a boom like regular shotguns, but cracks loud
    like big bore rifles,at least twice as as loud.Ed
    [/quote Sounds devastating[:p]
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    hubel458hubel458 Member Posts: 427 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I got my 20ga FH 3.5" brass cases from RMC.
    The case capacity in water is 234 gr.
    It holds 215 gr of dense ball powder to the
    base of 490gr 20ga hard lead slugs I have.
    These cases use a 209Mag shotgun primer, and
    I have mouth ID set up for .620 slugs as the slugs
    and sabots I have are that size. These cases will
    work good out to 35,000 psi, without extreme
    expansion or resizing problems. Load of slow powder
    will get 490 gr to 2500 plus at 25-27,000 psi,
    6800 ft lbs, using the 30" barrel I'm getting to
    put on the FBW Model L falling block.
    ! also have a case of the 3.5" factory Hastings
    SPW, locked on sabot, loaded rounds to use.Ed
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    GONESHOOTINGGONESHOOTING Member Posts: 2,450 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Posted - 05/13/2010 : 01:47:40 AM Show Profile Reply with Quote
    I got my 20ga FH 3.5" brass cases from RMC.
    The case capacity in water is 234 gr.
    It holds 215 gr of dense ball powder to the
    base of 490gr 20ga hard lead slugs I have.
    These cases use a 209Mag shotgun primer, and
    I have mouth ID set up for .620 slugs as the slugs
    and sabots I have are that size. These cases will
    work good out to 35,000 psi, without extreme
    expansion or resizing problems. Load of slow powder
    will get 490 gr to 2500 plus at 25-27,000 psi,
    6800 ft lbs, using the 30" barrel I'm getting to
    put on the FBW Model L falling block.
    ! also have a case of the 3.5" factory Hastings
    SPW, locked on sabot, loaded rounds to use.Ed
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    hubel458hubel458 Member Posts: 427 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Here is pic of the RMC brass 20ga 3.5" with
    Hastings 3.5" factory plastic case loads,
    and 20ga Hollywood dies. Also slugs, Dixie 490 gr,
    Hastings SPW and 900gr jacketed in the one case.

    Second pic is the FBW Model L setup that will have
    20ga 3.5" chambered barrel in a second one. This 1st
    one is in my 585HE.It is falling block in one piece
    thumbhole stock, an idea I come up with on my
    4bore falling block. Second Model L will be built same
    in 3.5" 20ga. EDd

    20dies.jpg

    fbw1pc.jpg
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    hubel458hubel458 Member Posts: 427 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Transition, biggest to a smaller, in
    putting falling block actions in one piece stocks.
    First one was the 4bore, the big one in
    picture and after it was done I got a FBW falling block
    and soon figured out I could do the same with it.
    It is chambered in my 585HE cartridge.
    And it is pictured above with the cases.
    I built the 4bore, from blocks of steel.
    The FBW is the Model L, and I'm doing second one
    in 3.5" 20ga, to use brass and plastic cases.
    And maybe later on when I find extra 700 barrel
    we'll do my long 700HE in FBW....Ed

    bigsm.jpg
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    hubel458hubel458 Member Posts: 427 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Here is picture of FBW Model L in one piece stock,
    compared to a FBW Model S in 2 piece stock.
    Both are chambered in my 585HE.
    These two plus the Wickcliff 76 and Ruger #1
    will easily handle my 585HE with proper
    weight and thick pads. These guns have
    rimless extractors and my 585HE goes in and
    out with least amount of metal removal from
    the feed trough, with much more power.
    The Model L will have a 3.5" chambered 20ga
    barrel to use 3.5" MRC brass cases and
    Hastings factory or reloaded plastic cases.Also
    I'm working to put a Wickcliff in 1 piece stock.Ed

    fbw2pc.jpg
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    hubel458hubel458 Member Posts: 427 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Here is picture of a bolt action a fella on Practical
    Machinist built for an 8ga. 4 rear bolt lugs.Singleshot.
    He used section of 20mm barrel for barrel.. Real nice.
    Idea would do for 10 and 12ga also I think.
    Has an aimpoint sight. Ed

    8bolt1.jpg
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    Alan RushingAlan Rushing Member Posts: 9,002 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Do you get powder by the truckload?
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    hubel458hubel458 Member Posts: 427 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Here is picture of the fella firing his bolt
    action 8ga that he made. He uses the
    super strong, heavy duty, plastic cases
    like we are using in the ones we made by
    boring out NEFs to 8ga.Ed

    8bolt2.jpg
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    grady mitchellgrady mitchell Member Posts: 139 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    i need one of these that will be strong enoff to handle the 8 gauge industrial round in al rem an win loadings any makers or takers out there for this job grady_mitchell2002@yahoo.com ////???????????
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    hubel458hubel458 Member Posts: 427 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Some have asked if the guy who made above
    bolt action 8ga does them for others, no he only
    did one for himself, and isn't a manufacturer.

    Here is picture of a cast .504" slug BPI 12ga sabot
    a guy made a few for me and it has good accuracy with
    our slower powder loads, with the sabot working ok.
    Slug is 440 gr and hard alloy cast with decent
    meplat for good penetration.But it isn't too blunt
    so it has good longer range capabilities when you
    get the speed behind it. Soon be the deer season and
    guys are still hunting for their ideal 12ga sabot/slug
    setup for loading their own.BPI is supposed to have
    a new sabot this year..Ed

    bpi504.jpg
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    grady mitchellgrady mitchell Member Posts: 139 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    well ed who does ?????????
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    hubel458hubel458 Member Posts: 427 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    The .504" lead slug I show for using in 12ga sabots is
    one cast for using in .500" cases like my 499HE, by
    sizing it after casting. Tried it at the .504" diameter and
    it works in the sabot also. So it does double duty,
    unsized 12ga sabot, sized and lubed in .500" use.

    Some like short cases in big calibers, and have put up
    various ideas. First picture is 12ga brass cases, two
    2" long and other 2.25". Cases made by shortening
    our cases we made by putting rims on bmg brass.
    These can be used in Savage 210 and feed from mag
    box. Can use 2.5" Magtech brass shortened so case
    and protruding slug will be 2.7" overall and feed from
    magazines of Savage & Mossy bolt guns. With 2.25" case
    you can get 600gr to 1800 at least.Ed

    2inch12.jpg
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    hubel458hubel458 Member Posts: 427 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Have had a bunch of different guys shooting
    the 4bore with light 11,000 ft lb loads.
    All say it is a tremendous thrill.
    Simply the greatest shooting ever.

    So many have opinions on what is a real big bore.
    I think really big starts at .585........
    So in that vein I have made the 585 Hubel
    Super Magnum, 585 HSE, giving a nod to necked
    cases.Also can make the 620 HSE for 600 guys.
    This is my only wildcat base case with a neck.
    Base and rim are .750", shoulder is .720".
    and case is 3.7" long. Power in the range of
    14,000 to 17,000 ft lbs. Can be used single shot
    in the PH, the Savage 210, the Enfield. Not for
    mass production by me, cases too hard to make.
    An experiment with necked cases.
    Picture of the case later.Ed
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    hubel458hubel458 Member Posts: 427 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    20 gauge-- Fired factory 3.5" plastic cased Hastings 395 gr
    locked on sabot slug in 20ga with 30 inch barrel and
    got 1900 plus fps. Same sabot slug in RMC 3.5" brass case
    with shotgun primer, got 2500 fps. Case bases didn't
    expand. Load of 150gr RE17 slow enough getting to
    peak pressures is easy on cases. Dies work with
    both case types.Ed

    20dies.jpg
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    hubel458hubel458 Member Posts: 427 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Some more 20ga- 490gr slug in RMC 3.5" brass case
    with shotgun primer, got 2400+ fps. Cases very slight
    base expansion. About .001" above base.
    Load of 180gr RE17, shotgun primer.Ed

    Got asked about the Taylor KO factor, some of our
    cases.Max loads for my guns/cases combos.Ed

    4bore in my falling block-- 1600gr at 2500 - 571 KO
    700HE in my bolt gun
    1000gr at 3200- 457 KO
    12GA FH in my Savage----1000gr at 2500- 357 KO
    585HE in my bolt gun
    750gr at 2800-- 300 KO
    577 trex comparison
    750gr at 2600--278 KO
    700NE comparison
    1000gr at 2000- 295 KO
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    hubel458hubel458 Member Posts: 427 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    20ga testing- 600gr slug in RMC 3.5" brass case
    with shotgun primer, 2300 fps. Very slight
    case expansion above base.
    Another load style- 12 number 1 buckshot,
    about 510 gr worth, 2000. Glued a 20ga
    card in the brass case over the shot.
    Few more guys coming, having fun
    shooting the 4bore this summer. Ed
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    hubel458hubel458 Member Posts: 427 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    There are fellas who have and are planning on
    doing hopped up loads and cases in the Greener GP,
    Martini type action. Here is picture of one done couple
    years ago by Aussie guy on NitroExpress forums. They
    need heavy barrel in place of original. It has a rifled
    Pacnor barrel and weighs about 9 lbs. In my measuring an
    action here, they will feed a 3" brass case with a protruding
    slug, like the cast Dixie or the Henson jkt slugs.
    I like the looks of these old classic guns. And they are
    strong enough with 3" RMC brass to get 730gr slug to
    2000 fps...Ed

    IMGP0777.jpg
This discussion has been closed.