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FFL'S not taking individual sales
Oldcenturion
Member Posts: 8 ✭✭
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=Georgia]As an individual selling out my personal collection of over 250 items, I'm finding more and more FFL's that won't take any modern firearms from a non licensed seller. I have more documentation than most FFL dealers. When I have to go to my dealer, he charges a fee which I pass on to the buyer. This is a ADDED expense for THEIR customer. Most buyers are switching dealers. I mean these dealers know it's lawful to send a purchase by non license and still they are hard headed about this. This also discourages buyers to buy firearms at all and certainly not to use that dealer. Is this a new trend??
=Georgia]As an individual selling out my personal collection of over 250 items, I'm finding more and more FFL's that won't take any modern firearms from a non licensed seller. I have more documentation than most FFL dealers. When I have to go to my dealer, he charges a fee which I pass on to the buyer. This is a ADDED expense for THEIR customer. Most buyers are switching dealers. I mean these dealers know it's lawful to send a purchase by non license and still they are hard headed about this. This also discourages buyers to buy firearms at all and certainly not to use that dealer. Is this a new trend??
Comments
If the FFL has decided that is their policy, that is their option.
Find a different FFL.
[:)]
Swell, that does not solve the problem if the uncooperative FFL is on the buyers end.
It is usually cheaper to pay an ffl to transfer and ship a hand gun than for an individual to ship a handgun, though that is not true with long guns.
How many do you want me to list. I just sold a gun to a buyer in Delaware and am yet to find any dealer listed on the GB list of receiving FFLs that will accept it without going thru an FFL on my end.
Let auction support know. CaptFun has stated he wants to know about these dealers so he can plumb them up. Give the system a hand, please.
Or, are you just going to * about it on the forums?
Do you curse the darkness or light a candle?
In my GB description, I always say, "Be sure that your FFL will receive this from a nonlicensee; I will include a photocopy of my DL with the gun."
Neal
Woodyquote:Originally posted by nunn
Well...are you going to identify FFLs, registered with GunBroker as transfer agents, who will not receive a firearm from a non-FFL, and report to Support?
Or, are you just going to * about it on the forums?
Do you curse the darkness or light a candle?
Jewelers Supply and Gun San Antonio TX
and 3 others the customer found another FFL to handle.(didn't record the FFL that denied sale) This was in Nov& Dec 2013. Most of my records for 2013 are stored. If have put the statement about individual to FFL in my listings.
I put on what I had and had asked if this was a new trend by FFL's I'm not just "bitching" as it was so rudely put.
Is there a time limit on responses? I still work and check the box every few hours as I can.
I put on what I had and had asked if this was a new trend by FFL's I'm not just "bitching" as it was so rudely put.
I don't want to enter the rude-or-not fray, but I can see why you, as a new member, may simply be trying to learn how this stuff all works. Asking questions is how you can learn.
I've been here for more than 10 years, have bought close to 200 guns here and on other sites (not to mention privately, at shops and at shows) and still find interesting, often confusing, nuances in the way FFLs and C&Rs and private-vs.-dealer and other sales and transfers can be handled. Even (or should I say especially?) BATF agents interpret the rules differently, so seek as much advice as you can.
And welcome to the forum. Without new members, who will replace those wsameve on or get turned off? Best of luck with disposing of your collection.
I think that the only "trend" is for firearms laws to get more numerous & complex, & that makes the marginally educated dealers uncomfortable. "The firearms business" is more about business today than firearms; the consequences of making a mistake are more serious than any field other than medicine.
To be fair, those of us not in the firearms business need to know the law, too. A dealer must enter an FFL # or name & address in the "receipts" field of his bound book; if he receives a gun without an FFL or a credible name & address, he must hold the gun for better information. ATF agents expect him to have valid information in his bound book. Which is why I suggested offering a photocopy of your DL.
Neal
1.Current State D.L. with photo
2.State Concealed carry permit
3.My Federal Concealed Carry Permit (HR218)
4.My retired law enforcement credentials w/photo
5.A business card as an appraiser, with name, address, phone, email and website.
I believe this is more than adequate for any FFL.
Thanks again!
Which is why I suggested offering a photocopy of your DL.
Neal
I have never looked through the "for sellers" information on the auction side, but perhaps GB should require sellers of "FFL required" merchandise to provide a "CLEAR SIGNED COPY of a driver's license, or PICTURED state issued ID card".
If I ever do run into that I'll rat them out with GB Support danged fast, and take my business elsewhere.
One other point. When you do find an FFL to handle transactions for you, consider what you are paying. If they hit you for $50, they are making a killing and have no reason to be bothered if you buy nothing else from them.
If the FFL charges you $10 or $15, look for something else you need and buy it from them. A box of ammo, s bottle of Hoppes #9, anything really. Show the ones that gave you a fair price on a transfer how much you appreciate them.
How many do you want me to list. I just sold a gun to a buyer in Delaware and am yet to find any dealer listed on the GB list of receiving FFLs that will accept it without going thru an FFL on my end.
Open a support issue and let me know which FFLs are doing it. We will attempt to educate them, but if that does not work then they will be removed from the GunBroker network. Clearly I don't want FFLs in there that are hassling my customers. Most of the time these folks are still thinking of us as their "competition", sometimes the education part works, but most of the time you just have to wait for the old school owners to die off and the newer generation to take over.
I can see why an FFL will receive a firearm from only another FFL. If some problem results later from the firearm, it is found to be stolen, embezzled, or malfunctioning, the receiving FFL will be in the loop. Better for the FFL to show investigators that he received it from another dealer than some stranger who sent him a drivers license copy (that could be fraudulant or altered) and who may not even be able to be located.
That's the exact reason both of my transfer dealers gave me.
Real easy to get someone else's drivers license, make a copy of it, and use that to sell stolen guns.
I can see why an FFL will receive a firearm from only another FFL. If some problem results later from the firearm, it is found to be stolen, embezzled, or malfunctioning, the receiving FFL will be in the loop. Better for the FFL to show investigators that he received it from another dealer than some stranger who sent him a drivers license copy (that could be fraudulant or altered) and who may not even be able to be located.
There is no legal requirement for the seller to supply ID to the receiving FFL see the ATF FFL Newsletter from November 2012. http://www.atf.gov/files/publications/newsletters/ffl/ffl-newsletter-2012-11.pdf (Bottom left of page 5) Again, FFLs that obstruct transactions on GunBroker that are not following the law will be removed from the network.
This is legal. If the FFL wants to make up their own rules, that's between the buyer and his FFL. I've been paid.
OK, Captain, but if he doesn't provide ID, what do I enter in my bound book?
I have had individuals drop guns off at the local Pack & Postal. I get a package with no ID, and the return address is that of a mailbox business. I didn't receive the gun from Pack & Postal, so what do I enter in the book?
If you find an ffl on GB's transfer dealer list who won't accept firearms from a private seller, CaptFun wants to know about it.
+1 [:(!][:(!]
I HAVE TO HAVE A NAME AND ADDRESS WHERE IT CAME FROM or ffl #
that is what the A&D book asks for
sorry for all caps. I am not mad or yelling
quote:There is no legal requirement for the seller to supply ID to the receiving FFL see the ATF FFL Newsletter from November 2012.
OK, Captain, but if he doesn't provide ID, what do I enter in my bound book?
I have had individuals drop guns off at the local Pack & Postal. I get a package with no ID, and the return address is that of a mailbox business. I didn't receive the gun from Pack & Postal, so what do I enter in the book?
Good Question...
quote:There is no legal requirement for the seller to supply ID to the receiving FFL see the ATF FFL Newsletter from November 2012.
OK, Captain, but if he doesn't provide ID, what do I enter in my bound book?
I have had individuals drop guns off at the local Pack & Postal. I get a package with no ID, and the return address is that of a mailbox business. I didn't receive the gun from Pack & Postal, so what do I enter in the book?
That's pretty much what my FFL * about last time because the crappy seller put no information in the package with the gun.
BTW is there a certain amount of time you have to leave feedback in?
Are there any States or localities that have laws requiring only FFL to FFL shipments of guns?
So far I've not run into such a scenario. But being in Arizona, my end of the deal is a pretty easy one, and generally low cost.
Your mileage on this should not vary, but as this is an imperfect world, it's likely to be plenty screwed over for somebody or another.
I reported to GB and the FFL was promptly eradicated from the GB list.
Capt. Jack Sparrow.
quote:There is no legal requirement for the seller to supply ID to the receiving FFL see the ATF FFL Newsletter from November 2012.
OK, Captain, but if he doesn't provide ID, what do I enter in my bound book?
I have had individuals drop guns off at the local Pack & Postal. I get a package with no ID, and the return address is that of a mailbox business. I didn't receive the gun from Pack & Postal, so what do I enter in the book?
The buyer you are receiving the gun for should provide you with the
sellers info. What more do you need other than name and address?
Old Centurion, I think your are going way overboard on providing your name & address. No dealer cares about all of those permits.
quote:Originally posted by clays
How many do you want me to list. I just sold a gun to a buyer in Delaware and am yet to find any dealer listed on the GB list of receiving FFLs that will accept it without going thru an FFL on my end.
Open a support issue and let me know which FFLs are doing it. We will attempt to educate them, but if that does not work then they will be removed from the GunBroker network. Clearly I don't want FFLs in there that are hassling my customers. Most of the time these folks are still thinking of us as their "competition", sometimes the education part works, but most of the time you just have to wait for the old school owners to die off and the newer generation to take over.
[edit by Captain Fun] Open a support issue. This is not the venue for posting the FFL info. However, that guy was a class act anyway. They were removed. Anyway it is the responsibility of the BUYER to find an FFL that will receive from you, it is not your responsibility to find the FFL.
Outbound transfers he does at UPS cost (and he gives you the UPS charge slip/receipt)
Inbound transfers he only accepts from another FFL, price is $20 or 2% whichever is higher (he often transfers $10,000+ firearms).
Inbound for repairs he accepts from owner, and returns to same (again shipping at actual cost)
All I can relate to is my long time FFL.
Inbound transfers he only accepts from another FFL, price is $20 or 2% whichever is higher (he often transfers $10,000+ firearms).
Thats nice, and good for him but not the kind of person we want in our FFL network.
Okay so here's a question -
Are there any States or localities that have laws requiring only FFL to FFL shipments of guns?
So far I've not run into such a scenario. But being in Arizona, my end of the deal is a pretty easy one, and generally low cost.
Your mileage on this should not vary, but as this is an imperfect world, it's likely to be plenty screwed over for somebody or another.
I too would like to know
quote:Originally posted by ChrisInTempe
Okay so here's a question -
Are there any States or localities that have laws requiring only FFL to FFL shipments of guns?
So far I've not run into such a scenario. But being in Arizona, my end of the deal is a pretty easy one, and generally low cost.
Your mileage on this should not vary, but as this is an imperfect world, it's likely to be plenty screwed over for somebody or another.
I too would like to know
The answer is No.
Here is the most recent version of the ATF compilation of State and local laws.
http://www.atf.gov/files/publications/download/p/atf-p-5300-5-31st-editiion/2010-2011-atf-book-final.pdf
Feel free to read the entire thing. No one has been able to point out any jurisdiction so far requiring that.
But again, much like the weed laws, Federal law trumps state and local every single time.