In order to participate in the GunBroker Member forums, you must be logged in with your GunBroker.com account. Click the sign-in button at the top right of the forums page to get connected.
quote:Originally posted by k_townman
quote:Originally posted by Barzillia
k townman, most issues arise between Christianity and other faiths most clearly in their differing concepts of God.
For Christians, one significant concept would be the nature of Messiah, the Christ.
Is He a created being ?
Therein lies the rub.
The majority of Christian sects, including the Mormons, believe that Christ is the literal Son of God. Therefore, Jesus was created by God, the Father, and Mary.
Mormonism is not a Christian sect or denomination. Christianity is defined by the Word of God...the Bible...and the Bible only.
quote:Originally posted by JamesRK
quote:Originally posted by Survivalist86
Dumb question...what is an "Alter Call"?
I wouldn't call it a dumb question. As said before, the Altar Call is simply an invitation to do one of the things Jesus Christ told us to do. It is Biblical:
Matthew 10
32 Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven.
33 But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.
As you wish to believe. I consider it part of the modern circus mentality that has crept into the church.
something has struck nerve with me in these posts;
Lutheran, Baptist, Jew, Catholic, Morman, Hindu, etc...... As long as you have faith in something to me you are a better person and I would much rather stand next to you, same faith or not, than someone that doesn't have that sense of natural law.
quote:Originally posted by burdz19
something has struck nerve with me in these posts;
Lutheran, Baptist, Jew, Catholic, Morman, Hindu, etc...... As long as you have faith in something to me you are a better person and I would much rather stand next to you, same faith or not, than someone that doesn't have that sense of natural law.
Agreed. It is why I try to avoid such discusions. I know beyond a reasonable doubt that I am correct. [8D]
quote:Originally posted by JamesRK
quote:Originally posted by Survivalist86
As you wish to believe. I consider it part of the modern circus mentality that has crept into the church.
It's not a matter of what I wish to believe. The Bible is Biblical. I think even HAIRY and Classic would agree with that.
The red print signifies the words of Christ.
Then, by your interpretation, Catholic Priests, Lutheran Priests, Orthodox Priests, and any who follow the teachings of these churches are doomed, as well as any person prior to 150 years ago. We are all doomed. It is what I love about being Lutheran. Modern Fundementalists have condemed me, Catholics have excommunicated all followers of Luther, and I will not even mention what the Muslims think about me. I have pretty much been condemned by the modern protestants, the oldschool Catholics and every other religion. I can live with that.
quote:Originally posted by ECC
quote:Originally posted by k_townman
quote:Originally posted by Barzillia
k townman, most issues arise between Christianity and other faiths most clearly in their differing concepts of God.
For Christians, one significant concept would be the nature of Messiah, the Christ.
Is He a created being ?
Therein lies the rub.
The majority of Christian sects, including the Mormons, believe that Christ is the literal Son of God. Therefore, Jesus was created by God, the Father, and Mary.
Mormonism is not a Christian sect or denomination. Christianity is defined by the Word of God...the Bible...and the Bible only.
ECC - You do not know as much about the Mormons, as you profess. What is the full and correct name of the Mormon Church?
The Church of JESUS CHRIST of Latter Day Saints.
The LDS Church is more christian than all others sects dare to be. The LDS Church studies from the King James version of the Bible.
quote:Originally posted by k_townman
quote:Originally posted by ECC
quote:Originally posted by k_townman
quote:Originally posted by Barzillia
k townman, most issues arise between Christianity and other faiths most clearly in their differing concepts of God.
For Christians, one significant concept would be the nature of Messiah, the Christ.
Is He a created being ?
Therein lies the rub.
The majority of Christian sects, including the Mormons, believe that Christ is the literal Son of God. Therefore, Jesus was created by God, the Father, and Mary.
Mormonism is not a Christian sect or denomination. Christianity is defined by the Word of God...the Bible...and the Bible only.
ECC - You do not know as much about the Mormons, as you profess. What is the full and correct name of the Mormon Church?
The Church of JESUS CHRIST of Latter Day Saints.
The LDS Church is more christian than all others sects dare to be. The LDS Church studies from the King James version of the Bible.
Oh Oh...please send some more missionaries to my house. Last two you sent by started crying about 2 1/2 hours into a religious debate with me.[:D]
I can blow the book of mormon out of the water by using 2 animals. The horse, and the bee. If you are LDS, you know exactly what I am talking about.
quote:Originally posted by River Rat
I stand by ECC in his statement that Mormonism is a cult. While this is a gun forum, not a religious one, this topic is about religion and the cat is out of the bag. God loves all Mormons, but He does not love their church. It is a cult, and not a part of Christ's greater Church. I have friends who are Mormon, and they know I would not attack their personal beliefs. But if someone is considering joining LDS, as a Christian I have a duty to warn them.
quote:Originally posted by Survivalist86
quote:Originally posted by k_townman
quote:Originally posted by ECC
quote:Originally posted by k_townman
quote:Originally posted by Barzillia
k townman, most issues arise between Christianity and other faiths most clearly in their differing concepts of God.
For Christians, one significant concept would be the nature of Messiah, the Christ.
Is He a created being ?
Therein lies the rub.
The majority of Christian sects, including the Mormons, believe that Christ is the literal Son of God. Therefore, Jesus was created by God, the Father, and Mary.
Mormonism is not a Christian sect or denomination. Christianity is defined by the Word of God...the Bible...and the Bible only.
ECC - You do not know as much about the Mormons, as you profess. What is the full and correct name of the Mormon Church?
The Church of JESUS CHRIST of Latter Day Saints.
The LDS Church is more christian than all others sects dare to be. The LDS Church studies from the King James version of the Bible.
Oh Oh...please send some more missionaries to my house. Last two you sent by started crying about 2 1/2 hours into a religious debate with me.[:D]
I can blow the book of mormon out of the water by using 2 animals. The horse, and the bee. If you are LDS, you know exactly what I am talking about.
I was raised in the LDS Church, and served a mission. Although, I haven't attended any meetings for many years. I'm what they call a jack-mormon. I would like to hear the story of the horse and the bee. That's a concept I've never heard of. I promise I won't cry. [:D]
quote:Originally posted by Barzillia
quote:Originally posted by k_townman
quote:Originally posted by ECC
quote:Originally posted by k_townman
quote:Originally posted by Barzillia
k townman, most issues arise between Christianity and other faiths most clearly in their differing concepts of God.
For Christians, one significant concept would be the nature of Messiah, the Christ.
Is He a created being ?
Therein lies the rub.
The majority of Christian sects, including the Mormons, believe that Christ is the literal Son of God. Therefore, Jesus was created by God, the Father, and Mary.
Mormonism is not a Christian sect or denomination. Christianity is defined by the Word of God...the Bible...and the Bible only.
ECC - You do not know as much about the Mormons, as you profess. What is the full and correct name of the Mormon Church?
The Church of JESUS CHRIST of Latter Day Saints.
The LDS Church is more christian than all others sects dare to be. The LDS Church studies from the King James version of the Bible.
Taking the name certainly doesn't make it something that it is not.
In my opinion.
Barzilla - In your opinion, why is the LDS church not christian?
quote:Originally posted by k_townman
quote:Originally posted by ECC
quote:Originally posted by k_townman
quote:Originally posted by Barzillia
k townman, most issues arise between Christianity and other faiths most clearly in their differing concepts of God.
For Christians, one significant concept would be the nature of Messiah, the Christ.
Is He a created being ?
Therein lies the rub.
The majority of Christian sects, including the Mormons, believe that Christ is the literal Son of God. Therefore, Jesus was created by God, the Father, and Mary.
Mormonism is not a Christian sect or denomination. Christianity is defined by the Word of God...the Bible...and the Bible only.
ECC - You do not know as much about the Mormons, as you profess. What is the full and correct name of the Mormon Church?
The Church of JESUS CHRIST of Latter Day Saints.
The LDS Church is more christian than all others sects dare to be. The LDS Church studies from the King James version of the Bible.
Christianity is based upon the Bible...and nothing but the Bible. I stand behind my remarks. As defined by Scripture, Mormonism is a cult...and has no resemblance to Christianity.
No offense intended. I know a lot of good Mormon folks...
quote:Originally posted by Barzillia
quote:Originally posted by Survivalist86
quote:Originally posted by JamesRK
quote:Originally posted by Survivalist86
As you wish to believe. I consider it part of the modern circus mentality that has crept into the church.
It's not a matter of what I wish to believe. The Bible is Biblical. I think even HAIRY and Classic would agree with that.
The red print signifies the words of Christ.
Then, by your interpretation, Catholic Priests, Lutheran Priests, Orthodox Priests, and any who follow the teachings of these churches are doomed, as well as any person prior to 150 years ago. We are all doomed. It is what I love about being Lutheran. Modern Fundementalists have condemed me, Catholics have excommunicated all followers of Luther, and I will not even mention what the Muslims think about me. I have pretty much been condemned by the modern protestants, the oldschool Catholics and every other religion. I can live with that.
What are you talking about ???
What have all of those priests done to be condemned in your eyes ?
You seem to have condemned something that you have never seen.
What is it that "fundamentalists" condemned you over ?
Honestly, I don't think that you have an idea of what fundamentalism actually is if you are placing Luther in a contrary corner to it.
What you are saying is really odd.[?]
About 20 years ago, I went on a journey of discovery. I got a degree in Central European History, pre-1400 and really started studying and attending all sorts of churches and religious services. I know exactly what fundementalism is, and is not.
Luther was NOT contrarian at all. The modern fundementalist movement came about much later then Luther. All he wanted to do was remove the outside influences from the Catholic faith. The Catholics sort of disliked him for it and sort of wanted to kill him. However, many of his grievences were rectified by the Catholics in 1965 with the Second Vatican council. Once again, the faith was assailed by outside influnces, not by the Catholics, but first by the apologetics of Calvin, then by John Wesley with the modern Methodist movement that preached a "Method" to salvation. I assume that is what you are talkin about.
I was kind of considered a strange guy in the small town I lived because I would attend a different church every Sunday ( or temple and adventist church on Saturday). I even had an opportunity to attend some that are considered somewhat outside the norm, including a Zoroastrist service, a Coptic service, and a Coptic/Gnostic service. The Gnostics were actually pretty cool and had some really good reading material.
But, eventually I started paring the bible with historical writings, records and stories. I started seeing where there were amazing, beat the odds, coincidences in history. (Sorry, I could write 30 pages on that, just take my word for it) . I started going back to these amazing, and what I considred divine inspired, events and started looking at the common factor. Through a lot of spiritual searching, reading, and praying I believe that the original Lutheran church, the conservative German one, is the most like the way the church was set up 1800+ years ago. There are many things that have crept into many of the churches. Some are salvation issues, and some are not. The ones that have salvation issues, are, in my opinion teaching a false doctrine. Those that have allowed some of the secular stuff that are not salvation issues, I have no problem with.
Whew...sorry, I get pretty long winded when I talk about religion or history.
None of this was meant to offend. It is just my perception based on years of study, readings of the greatest minds in history and my common sense.
quote:Originally posted by ECC
quote:Originally posted by k_townman
quote:Originally posted by ECC
quote:Originally posted by k_townman
quote:Originally posted by Barzillia
k townman, most issues arise between Christianity and other faiths most clearly in their differing concepts of God.
For Christians, one significant concept would be the nature of Messiah, the Christ.
Is He a created being ?
Therein lies the rub.
The majority of Christian sects, including the Mormons, believe that Christ is the literal Son of God. Therefore, Jesus was created by God, the Father, and Mary.
Mormonism is not a Christian sect or denomination. Christianity is defined by the Word of God...the Bible...and the Bible only.
ECC - You do not know as much about the Mormons, as you profess. What is the full and correct name of the Mormon Church?
The Church of JESUS CHRIST of Latter Day Saints.
The LDS Church is more christian than all others sects dare to be. The LDS Church studies from the King James version of the Bible.
Christianity is based upon the Bible...and nothing but the Bible. I stand behind my remarks. As defined by Scripture, Mormonism is a cult...and has no resemblance to Christianity.
No offense intended. I know a lot of good Mormon folks...
ECC - Please show me the scripture reference that says that the LDS Church is a Cult.
quote:Originally posted by k_townman
quote:Originally posted by Survivalist86
quote:Originally posted by k_townman
quote:Originally posted by ECC
quote:Originally posted by k_townman
quote:Originally posted by Barzillia
k townman, most issues arise between Christianity and other faiths most clearly in their differing concepts of God.
For Christians, one significant concept would be the nature of Messiah, the Christ.
Is He a created being ?
Therein lies the rub.
The majority of Christian sects, including the Mormons, believe that Christ is the literal Son of God. Therefore, Jesus was created by God, the Father, and Mary.
Mormonism is not a Christian sect or denomination. Christianity is defined by the Word of God...the Bible...and the Bible only.
ECC - You do not know as much about the Mormons, as you profess. What is the full and correct name of the Mormon Church?
The Church of JESUS CHRIST of Latter Day Saints.
The LDS Church is more christian than all others sects dare to be. The LDS Church studies from the King James version of the Bible.
Oh Oh...please send some more missionaries to my house. Last two you sent by started crying about 2 1/2 hours into a religious debate with me.[:D]
I can blow the book of mormon out of the water by using 2 animals. The horse, and the bee. If you are LDS, you know exactly what I am talking about.
I was raised in the LDS Church, and served a mission. Although, I haven't attended any meetings for many years. I'm what they call a jack-mormon. I would like to hear the story of the horse and the bee. That's a concept I've never heard of. I promise I won't cry. [:D]
According to the writings in the Book Of Mormon, the 13th tribe of Israel came to America and set up a great empire, correct? There are many mentionings of the great battles in the new world involving Chariots, and that the people drank milk mixed with honey..correct?
Horses did not come to the New World until the SPanards introduced them, and there is no archeological evidence, no bones, no graves to show that they were here any earlier.
Bees were introduced by the French. And we all know bees have adapted perfectly to the American continent and have natrualized and spread about the whole New world.
The American Indian did not have the wheel. There has never been a case of a society throughout history, who had the wheel, ever losing it.
Is there evidence of advanced civilizations having existed here before the time of the Indians? Yep. Was it Semetic? Nope.
quote:Originally posted by k_townman
quote:Originally posted by ECC
quote:Originally posted by k_townman
quote:Originally posted by ECC
quote:Originally posted by k_townman
quote:Originally posted by Barzillia
k townman, most issues arise between Christianity and other faiths most clearly in their differing concepts of God.
For Christians, one significant concept would be the nature of Messiah, the Christ.
Is He a created being ?
Therein lies the rub.
The majority of Christian sects, including the Mormons, believe that Christ is the literal Son of God. Therefore, Jesus was created by God, the Father, and Mary.
Mormonism is not a Christian sect or denomination. Christianity is defined by the Word of God...the Bible...and the Bible only.
ECC - You do not know as much about the Mormons, as you profess. What is the full and correct name of the Mormon Church?
The Church of JESUS CHRIST of Latter Day Saints.
The LDS Church is more christian than all others sects dare to be. The LDS Church studies from the King James version of the Bible.
Christianity is based upon the Bible...and nothing but the Bible. I stand behind my remarks. As defined by Scripture, Mormonism is a cult...and has no resemblance to Christianity.
No offense intended. I know a lot of good Mormon folks...
ECC - Please show me the scripture reference that says that the LDS Church is a Cult.
Rev 22:18
For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
THE ARTICLES OF FAITH
OF THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY SAINTS
History of the Church, Vol. 4, pp. 535-541
1 We believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost.
2 We believe that men will be punished for their own sins, and not for Adam's transgression.
3 We believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel.
4 We believe that the first principles and ordinances of the Gospel are: first, Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ; second, Repentance; third, Baptism by immersion for the remission of sins; fourth, Laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost.
5 We believe that a man must be called of God, by prophecy, and by the laying on of hands by those who are in authority, to preach the Gospel and administer in the ordinances thereof.
6 We believe in the same organization that existed in the Primitive Church, namely, apostles, prophets, pastors, teachers, evangelists, and so forth.
7 We believe in the gift of tongues, prophecy, revelation, visions, healing, interpretation of tongues, and so forth.
8 We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated ccorrectly; we also believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God.
9 We believe all that God has revealed, all that He does now reveal, and we believe that He will yet reveal many great and important things pertaining to the Kingdom of God.
10 We believe in the literal gathering of Israel and in the restoration of the Ten Tribes; that Zion (the New Jerusalem) will be built upon the American continent; that Christ will reign personally upon the earth; and, that the earth will be renewed and receive its paradisiacal glory.
11 We claim the aprivilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.
12 We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in cobeying, honoring, and sustaining the law.
13 We believe in being honest, true, chaste, benevolent, virtuous, and in doing egood to all men; indeed, we may say that we follow the admonition of Paul-We believe all things, we hope all things, we have endured many things, and hope to be able to endure all things. If there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy, we seek after these things.
Joseph Smith
The Official Scriptures of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints
c 2006 Intellectual Reserve, Inc. All rights reserved.
Rights and use information. Privacy policy. < Previous
Just let me say that I'm not the best representative for the LDS Church. You can go to lds.org for more answers.
quote:Originally posted by Survivalist86
quote:Originally posted by k_townman
quote:Originally posted by ECC
quote:Originally posted by k_townman
quote:Originally posted by ECC
quote:Originally posted by k_townman
quote:Originally posted by Barzillia
k townman, most issues arise between Christianity and other faiths most clearly in their differing concepts of God.
For Christians, one significant concept would be the nature of Messiah, the Christ.
Is He a created being ?
Therein lies the rub.
The majority of Christian sects, including the Mormons, believe that Christ is the literal Son of God. Therefore, Jesus was created by God, the Father, and Mary.
Mormonism is not a Christian sect or denomination. Christianity is defined by the Word of God...the Bible...and the Bible only.
ECC - You do not know as much about the Mormons, as you profess. What is the full and correct name of the Mormon Church?
The Church of JESUS CHRIST of Latter Day Saints.
The LDS Church is more christian than all others sects dare to be. The LDS Church studies from the King James version of the Bible.
Christianity is based upon the Bible...and nothing but the Bible. I stand behind my remarks. As defined by Scripture, Mormonism is a cult...and has no resemblance to Christianity.
No offense intended. I know a lot of good Mormon folks...
ECC - Please show me the scripture reference that says that the LDS Church is a Cult.
Rev 22:18
For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
OK. John the Revelator told us not to add anything to the book of Revelations.
The LDS Church has added nothing to the Old, or the New, testament.
THE ARTICLES OF FAITH
OF THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY SAINTS
History of the Church, Vol. 4, pp. 535-541
1 We believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost.
2 We believe that men will be punished for their own sins, and not for Adam's transgression.
3 We believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel.
4 We believe that the first principles and ordinances of the Gospel are: first, Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ; second, Repentance; third, Baptism by immersion for the remission of sins; fourth, Laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost.
5 We believe that a man must be called of God, by prophecy, and by the laying on of hands by those who are in authority, to preach the Gospel and administer in the ordinances thereof.
6 We believe in the same organization that existed in the Primitive Church, namely, apostles, prophets, pastors, teachers, evangelists, and so forth.
7 We believe in the gift of tongues, prophecy, revelation, visions, healing, interpretation of tongues, and so forth.
8 We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated ccorrectly; we also believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God.
9 We believe all that God has revealed, all that He does now reveal, and we believe that He will yet reveal many great and important things pertaining to the Kingdom of God.
10 We believe in the literal gathering of Israel and in the restoration of the Ten Tribes; that Zion (the New Jerusalem) will be built upon the American continent; that Christ will reign personally upon the earth; and, that the earth will be renewed and receive its paradisiacal glory.
11 We claim the aprivilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.
12 We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in cobeying, honoring, and sustaining the law.
13 We believe in being honest, true, chaste, benevolent, virtuous, and in doing egood to all men; indeed, we may say that we follow the admonition of Paul-We believe all things, we hope all things, we have endured many things, and hope to be able to endure all things. If there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy, we seek after these things.
Joseph Smith
The Official Scriptures of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints
c 2006 Intellectual Reserve, Inc. All rights reserved.
Rights and use information. Privacy policy. < Previous
Just let me say that I'm not the best representative for the LDS Church. You can go to lds.org for more answers.
Explain to me why J Smith was a diviner of Magic, prior to founding the church. Explain to me why the church has paid huge amounts of money to buy up all the writings by J Smith and those around him and refuse to allow them to be released to the public except for their sanatized versions? Explain to me why the bible very specifically states that poligamy was wrong, yet was practiced freely amongst J Smith, B Young and others? Explain to me why your magic underwear contain Masonic symbols? Explain to me the justification for marrying of the dead, babtism of the dead and justification of the dead? Where in the bible does it say that when you die, you will have your own universe? What universe did Jesus come from? Expalin his use of his magic stones for finding lost treasure for a price to customers? Were these the same magic stones he used to translate the words of god? Why does the LDS church denouce plural marriage? Why does the LDS church discourage questioning of the doctrine? Why has the "elders" in the LDS church made almost 4000 changes to the book of Mormon since 1830? Where are the horses? Where are the Bees? Why did American Indians not have the wheel?
Now, that being said, I was rasied around Mormons and have nothing personal at all against y'all. My best friend growing up was LDS. Made a great designated driver when we turned 16[:D]. Plus, as long as I have firearms, and my mormon neighbors have their 7 years worth of food, I'm eating good! [:D]
quote:Originally posted by k_townman
quote:Originally posted by Survivalist86
quote:Originally posted by k_townman
quote:Originally posted by ECC
quote:Originally posted by k_townman
quote:Originally posted by ECC
quote:Originally posted by k_townman
quote:Originally posted by Barzillia
k townman, most issues arise between Christianity and other faiths most clearly in their differing concepts of God.
For Christians, one significant concept would be the nature of Messiah, the Christ.
Is He a created being ?
Therein lies the rub.
The majority of Christian sects, including the Mormons, believe that Christ is the literal Son of God. Therefore, Jesus was created by God, the Father, and Mary.
Mormonism is not a Christian sect or denomination. Christianity is defined by the Word of God...the Bible...and the Bible only.
ECC - You do not know as much about the Mormons, as you profess. What is the full and correct name of the Mormon Church?
The Church of JESUS CHRIST of Latter Day Saints.
The LDS Church is more christian than all others sects dare to be. The LDS Church studies from the King James version of the Bible.
Christianity is based upon the Bible...and nothing but the Bible. I stand behind my remarks. As defined by Scripture, Mormonism is a cult...and has no resemblance to Christianity.
No offense intended. I know a lot of good Mormon folks...
ECC - Please show me the scripture reference that says that the LDS Church is a Cult.
Rev 22:18
For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
OK. John the Revelator told us not to add anything to the book of Revelations.
The LDS Church has added nothing to the Old, or the New, testament.
quote:Originally posted by Survivalist86
quote:Originally posted by k_townman
quote:Originally posted by Survivalist86
quote:Originally posted by k_townman
quote:Originally posted by ECC
quote:Originally posted by k_townman
quote:Originally posted by Barzillia
k townman, most issues arise between Christianity and other faiths most clearly in their differing concepts of God.
For Christians, one significant concept would be the nature of Messiah, the Christ.
Is He a created being ?
Therein lies the rub.
The majority of Christian sects, including the Mormons, believe that Christ is the literal Son of God. Therefore, Jesus was created by God, the Father, and Mary.
Mormonism is not a Christian sect or denomination. Christianity is defined by the Word of God...the Bible...and the Bible only.
ECC - You do not know as much about the Mormons, as you profess. What is the full and correct name of the Mormon Church?
The Church of JESUS CHRIST of Latter Day Saints.
The LDS Church is more christian than all others sects dare to be. The LDS Church studies from the King James version of the Bible.
Oh Oh...please send some more missionaries to my house. Last two you sent by started crying about 2 1/2 hours into a religious debate with me.[:D]
I can blow the book of mormon out of the water by using 2 animals. The horse, and the bee. If you are LDS, you know exactly what I am talking about.
I was raised in the LDS Church, and served a mission. Although, I haven't attended any meetings for many years. I'm what they call a jack-mormon. I would like to hear the story of the horse and the bee. That's a concept I've never heard of. I promise I won't cry. [:D]
According to the writings in the Book Of Mormon, the 13th tribe of Israel came to America and set up a great empire, correct? There are many mentionings of the great battles in the new world involving Chariots, and that the people drank milk mixed with honey..correct?
Horses did not come to the New World until the SPanards introduced them, and there is no archeological evidence, no bones, no graves to show that they were here any earlier.
Bees were introduced by the French. And we all know bees have adapted perfectly to the American continent and have natrualized and spread about the whole New world.
The American Indian did not have the wheel. There has never been a case of a society throughout history, who had the wheel, ever losing it.
Is there evidence of advanced civilizations having existed here before the time of the Indians? Yep. Was it Semetic? Nope.
All I have to say to that is this:
Trying to prove the validity of religion, using manmade science, is futile.
I know there is a scripture that refers to conditions in the last days. Part of it says something like, "Men will be ever learning, and never able to come to a knowledge of the truth."
Explain to me why J Smith was a diviner of Magic, prior to founding the church. Explain to me why the church has paid huge amounts of money to buy up all the writings by J Smith and those around him and refuse to allow them to be released to the public except for their sanatized versions? Explain to me why the bible very specifically states that poligamy was wrong, yet was practiced freely amongst J Smith, B Young and others? Explain to me why your magic underwear contain Masonic symbols? Explain to me the justification for marrying of the dead, babtism of the dead and justification of the dead? Where in the bible does it say that when you die, you will have your own universe? What universe did Jesus come from? Expalin his use of his magic stones for finding lost treasure for a price to customers? Were these the same magic stones he used to translate the words of god? Why does the LDS church denouce plural marriage? Why does the LDS church discourage questioning of the doctrine? Why has the "elders" in the LDS church made almost 4000 changes to the book of Mormon since 1830? Where are the horses? Where are the Bees? Why did American Indians not have the wheel?
Now, that being said, I was rasied around Mormons and have nothing personal at all against y'all. My best friend growing up was LDS. Made a great designated driver when we turned 16. Plus, as long as I have firearms, and my mormon neighbors have their 7 years worth of food, I'm eating good!
Please don't accept my words as being anything but my personal feelings. You can get answers to your questions at lds.org.
OK. S T O P! I am not going to teach any sunday school lessons about the LDS Church. There are folks more qualified than me, who would be happy to answer your questions. Please, seek them out.
quote:Originally posted by k_townman
Explain to me why J Smith was a diviner of Magic, prior to founding the church. Explain to me why the church has paid huge amounts of money to buy up all the writings by J Smith and those around him and refuse to allow them to be released to the public except for their sanatized versions? Explain to me why the bible very specifically states that poligamy was wrong, yet was practiced freely amongst J Smith, B Young and others? Explain to me why your magic underwear contain Masonic symbols? Explain to me the justification for marrying of the dead, babtism of the dead and justification of the dead? Where in the bible does it say that when you die, you will have your own universe? What universe did Jesus come from? Expalin his use of his magic stones for finding lost treasure for a price to customers? Were these the same magic stones he used to translate the words of god? Why does the LDS church denouce plural marriage? Why does the LDS church discourage questioning of the doctrine? Why has the "elders" in the LDS church made almost 4000 changes to the book of Mormon since 1830? Where are the horses? Where are the Bees? Why did American Indians not have the wheel?
Now, that being said, I was rasied around Mormons and have nothing personal at all against y'all. My best friend growing up was LDS. Made a great designated driver when we turned 16. Plus, as long as I have firearms, and my mormon neighbors have their 7 years worth of food, I'm eating good!
Please don't accept my words as being anything but my personal feelings. You can get answers to your questions at lds.org.
You can never get the same answer twice out of them. So many of their original doctrine has been changed and they deny the original one. I sent numerous e-mails to the good folks who answer their e-mails that I am sure I made the "banned" list. A lot of them, they refused to answer, their answers to many of them were that the forces of evil have spread propaganda against the prophet and that it is not true. I do not think they took kindly to my many questions. The questions about horses and bees was basically answered with "The died off" when I asked about where the bones were, I was told that I needed to pray and feel the calling in my breast. It is a matter of faith. That does not cut it for me.
When the Bible talks about Jerusalem...I can see a Jerusalem. The Romans kept amazing records of lots of things, and the Roman records concur with the bible. The writings of Joseph Smith have nothing to corroborate them, contradict the bible on so many levels, and the LDS church has created a program to sanatize a lot of the controversial statements made in the past.
Again, bro, don't take this as a personal attack. Like I said in my previous statement, I studied this stuff extensively. I could not get answers, and the LDS folks I spoke with did the Texas Side Step on every question I had.
However, I would much rather marry a Mormon girl then a secular one. She would have to convert though [:D]
quote:Originally posted by k_townman
OK. S T O P! I am not going to teach any sunday school lessons about the LDS Church. There are folks more qualified than me, who would be happy to answer your questions. Please, seek them out.
[:D][:D][:D]
Thought if you were a member of a faith, you would know why? [:D]
quote:Originally posted by Survivalist86
quote:Originally posted by k_townman
OK. S T O P! I am not going to teach any sunday school lessons about the LDS Church. There are folks more qualified than me, who would be happy to answer your questions. Please, seek them out.
[:D][:D][:D]
Thought if you were a member of a faith, you would know why? [:D]
I am a member of the LDS Church, in name only. I have not been a practising member for many years. I just sort of do my own thing, and try not to piss off my neighbors.[:D][;)][8D][:)][:p][:o)]
quote:Originally posted by Survivalist86
Then, by your interpretation, Catholic Priests, Lutheran Priests, Orthodox Priests, and any who follow the teachings of these churches are doomed, as well as any person prior to 150 years ago. We are all doomed. It is what I love about being Lutheran. Modern Fundementalists have condemed me, Catholics have excommunicated all followers of Luther, and I will not even mention what the Muslims think about me. I have pretty much been condemned by the modern protestants, the oldschool Catholics and every other religion. I can live with that.
Where the hell did that come from?
I love it when somebody goes off on some mindless rant and credits me with saying something they think I said or something they wish I said.
That is a total invention of your twisted mind. I challenge you to find where I have ever said anything remotely similar to what you claim I said.
If you would try paying attention to what anyone else says instead of what you plan to say next you might be able to have a two sided conversation. I see that won't happen, so just continue your predetermined monolog.
quote:Originally posted by Survivalist86
According to the writings in the Book Of Mormon, the 13th tribe of Israel came to America and set up a great empire, correct? There are many mentionings of the great battles in the new world involving Chariots, and that the people drank milk mixed with honey..correct?
Horses did not come to the New World until the SPanards introduced them, and there is no archeological evidence, no bones, no graves to show that they were here any earlier.
Bees were introduced by the French. And we all know bees have adapted perfectly to the American continent and have natrualized and spread about the whole New world.
Well, since you asked, no, that's not correct. There is/was no 13th tribe of Israel. According to the writings in the Book of Mormon, the Jaredites came to America. The Jaredites were supposed to be descended from Jared and his brother from the Tower of Babel.
You are correct that the Spaniards were the first to bring horses to America, but the European honeybee was first brought to America from England to Virginia in 1622.
I've never been on a "journey of discovery" and I don't have a degree in Central European History, and I'm not a student of religion, but when I don't have a clue what I'm talking about I usually refrain from flapping my lip.
When you were doing all this research in your small town with various Churches and Temples which included Adventist Church, Zoroastrist services, Coptic services and Coptic/Gnostic services, if you had done a little less talking and a little more listening you might have learned something about Mormons, horses and bees.
Your small town reminds me of the joke about the town which was so small everybody had to take turns being the town drunk. With that many Churches, Temples and Meeting Places in a small town, people must have had to take turns being Christian, Jew and Moslem.
quote:Originally posted by JamesRK
quote:Originally posted by Survivalist86
According to the writings in the Book Of Mormon, the 13th tribe of Israel came to America and set up a great empire, correct? There are many mentionings of the great battles in the new world involving Chariots, and that the people drank milk mixed with honey..correct?
Horses did not come to the New World until the SPanards introduced them, and there is no archeological evidence, no bones, no graves to show that they were here any earlier.
Bees were introduced by the French. And we all know bees have adapted perfectly to the American continent and have natrualized and spread about the whole New world.
Well, since you asked, no, that's not correct. There is/was no 13th tribe of Israel. According to the writings in the Book of Mormon, the Jaredites came to America. The Jaredites were supposed to be descended from Jared and his brother from the Tower of Babel.
You are correct that the Spaniards were the first to bring horses to America, but the European honeybee was first brought to America from England to Virginia in 1622.
I've never been on a "journey of discovery" and I don't have a degree in Central European History, and I'm not a student of religion, but when I don't have a clue what I'm talking about I usually refrain from flapping my lip.
When you were doing all this research in your small town with various Churches and Temples which included Adventist Church, Zoroastrist services, Coptic services and Coptic/Gnostic services, if you had done a little less talking and a little more listening you might have learned something about Mormons, horses and bees.
Your small town reminds me of the joke about the town which was so small everybody had to take turns being the town drunk. With that many Churches, Temples and Meeting Places in a small town, people must have had to take turns being Christian, Jew and Moslem.
How can that be? The 13th tribe (the Jaredidites as you call them) brought horses and bees. Which is it?
Oh wait. You cannot answer because it is complete BS propaganda. Bet you are one of those that called Mohammad a child molester because one of his wives was 9 years old. Any idea how old some of Joseph Smith's 33 wives were?
Now I took the time and pulled out some of my notes from many mooms ago, and I will show that you faith is not Christian by quoting your own church's "sacred" texts.
" ther is no salvation without accepting Joseph Smith. If Joseph Smith was verily a prophet, and if he told the truth...no man can reject that testimony without incurring the most dreadful consequences, for he cannot enter the kingdom of God"...Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 1, p.190
"No man or woman in this dispensation will ever enter into the celestial kingdom of God without the consent of Joseph Smith...every man and woman must have the certificate of Joseph Smith, junior, as a passport to their entrance into the mansion where God and Christ are... [Joseph Smith] reigns there as supreme a being in his sphere, capacity, and calling, as God does in heaven. Many will exclaim-"Oh, that is very disagreeable! It is preposterous! We cannot bear the thought!" But it is true."... Journal of Discourses, vol. 7, p.289-91
"He that confesseth not that Jesus has come in the flesh and sent Joseph Smith with the fullness of the Gospel to this generation, is not of God, but is anti-christ"...Journal of Discourses, vol. 9, p.312
Anyhow, you can educate yourself at this site. Unlike the folks at LDS.org, they actually answer questions and won't send you e-mails accusing you of being predjudiced against their church.
It is kind of funny. You used the same attack method that your answer people did. Accused the person asking the questions of being "a joke". That part of your early indoctrination too? Just curious.
quote:Originally posted by Survivalist86
quote:Originally posted by JamesRK
quote:Originally posted by Survivalist86
According to the writings in the Book Of Mormon, the 13th tribe of Israel came to America and set up a great empire, correct? There are many mentionings of the great battles in the new world involving Chariots, and that the people drank milk mixed with honey..correct?
Horses did not come to the New World until the SPanards introduced them, and there is no archeological evidence, no bones, no graves to show that they were here any earlier.
Bees were introduced by the French. And we all know bees have adapted perfectly to the American continent and have natrualized and spread about the whole New world.
Well, since you asked, no, that's not correct. There is/was no 13th tribe of Israel. According to the writings in the Book of Mormon, the Jaredites came to America. The Jaredites were supposed to be descended from Jared and his brother from the Tower of Babel.
You are correct that the Spaniards were the first to bring horses to America, but the European honeybee was first brought to America from England to Virginia in 1622.
I've never been on a "journey of discovery" and I don't have a degree in Central European History, and I'm not a student of religion, but when I don't have a clue what I'm talking about I usually refrain from flapping my lip.
When you were doing all this research in your small town with various Churches and Temples which included Adventist Church, Zoroastrist services, Coptic services and Coptic/Gnostic services, if you had done a little less talking and a little more listening you might have learned something about Mormons, horses and bees.
Your small town reminds me of the joke about the town which was so small everybody had to take turns being the town drunk. With that many Churches, Temples and Meeting Places in a small town, people must have had to take turns being Christian, Jew and Moslem.
How can that be? The 13th tribe (the Jaredidites as you call them) brought horses and bees. Which is it?
Oh wait. You cannot answer because it is complete BS propaganda. Bet you are one of those that called Mohammad a child molester because one of his wives was 9 years old. Any idea how old some of Joseph Smith's 33 wives were?
Now I took the time and pulled out some of my notes from many mooms ago, and I will show that you faith is not Christian by quoting your own church's "sacred" texts.
" ther is no salvation without accepting Joseph Smith. If Joseph Smith was verily a prophet, and if he told the truth...no man can reject that testimony without incurring the most dreadful consequences, for he cannot enter the kingdom of God"...Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 1, p.190
"No man or woman in this dispensation will ever enter into the celestial kingdom of God without the consent of Joseph Smith...every man and woman must have the certificate of Joseph Smith, junior, as a passport to their entrance into the mansion where God and Christ are... [Joseph Smith] reigns there as supreme a being in his sphere, capacity, and calling, as God does in heaven. Many will exclaim-"Oh, that is very disagreeable! It is preposterous! We cannot bear the thought!" But it is true."... Journal of Discourses, vol. 7, p.289-91
"He that confesseth not that Jesus has come in the flesh and sent Joseph Smith with the fullness of the Gospel to this generation, is not of God, but is anti-christ"...Journal of Discourses, vol. 9, p.312
Anyhow, you can educate yourself at this site. Unlike the folks at LDS.org, they actually answer questions and won't send you e-mails accusing you of being predjudiced against their church.
It is kind of funny. You used the same attack method that your answer people did. Accused the person asking the questions of being "a joke". That part of your early indoctrination too? Just curious.
http://www.mrm.org/
Thank you for demonstrating my point so clearly. I have never said or implied that I am a Mormon. I am a Baptist. A Fundamentalist.
quote:Originally posted by Survivalist86
I know exactly what fundementalism is, and is not.
I suspect that you know about as much about Fundamentalists as you have demonstrated you know about the twelve tribes of Israel and honeybees.
quote:But the point comes down to the issue of whether I worship a god who was once a man, as we are...and a christ, a created being and brother to another high created being who shall remain nameless at this point.
Yeah...you mean Lucifer...Yeah, I didn't even go there. According to Mormons, Jesus Christ is supposed to be the brother of Lucifer (Satan)...who by the way is/was an angel...not a man, nor God.
You cannot reconcile Mormonism with Christianity...no matter how hard you try to do it.
Barzilla - Believe me when I tell you that the LDS Church, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, worships God the Father, the same God that is spoken of in the King James Bible. His Son, Jesus Christ, is worshipped as the Savior and Redeemer of the World. The very same Jesus that is spoken of in the New testament. I do not know how to make it any more plain and clear to you, and others, than that.
Jesus the Christ is the central figure, and the Head, or leader of the LDS Church. Mormons pray to, and worship God through, and in the name of Jesus Christ.
What, more than that, would qualify them as christians?
quote:Originally posted by ECC
quote:But the point comes down to the issue of whether I worship a god who was once a man, as we are...and a christ, a created being and brother to another high created being who shall remain nameless at this point.
Yeah...you mean Lucifer...Yeah, I didn't even go there. According to Mormons, Jesus Christ is supposed to be the brother of Lucifer (Satan)...who by the way is/was an angel...not a man, nor God.
You cannot reconcile Mormonism with Christianity...no matter how hard you try to do it.
ECC - Jesus Christ is also your brother, as if Lucifer. Since we are all, literally, sons and daughters of the Most High God, Elohim.
The LDS Church is the embodiment of every christian ideology. Every aspect of christianity is revered, worshipped, and regarded as most sacred, in the teachings, concepts, and policies of the LDS Church.
That is the best I can do to explain it to you.
Comments
quote:Originally posted by Barzillia
k townman, most issues arise between Christianity and other faiths most clearly in their differing concepts of God.
For Christians, one significant concept would be the nature of Messiah, the Christ.
Is He a created being ?
Therein lies the rub.
The majority of Christian sects, including the Mormons, believe that Christ is the literal Son of God. Therefore, Jesus was created by God, the Father, and Mary.
Mormonism is not a Christian sect or denomination. Christianity is defined by the Word of God...the Bible...and the Bible only.
quote:Originally posted by Survivalist86
Dumb question...what is an "Alter Call"?
I wouldn't call it a dumb question. As said before, the Altar Call is simply an invitation to do one of the things Jesus Christ told us to do. It is Biblical:
Matthew 10
32 Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven.
33 But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.
As you wish to believe. I consider it part of the modern circus mentality that has crept into the church.
Lutheran, Baptist, Jew, Catholic, Morman, Hindu, etc...... As long as you have faith in something to me you are a better person and I would much rather stand next to you, same faith or not, than someone that doesn't have that sense of natural law.
something has struck nerve with me in these posts;
Lutheran, Baptist, Jew, Catholic, Morman, Hindu, etc...... As long as you have faith in something to me you are a better person and I would much rather stand next to you, same faith or not, than someone that doesn't have that sense of natural law.
Agreed. It is why I try to avoid such discusions. I know beyond a reasonable doubt that I am correct. [8D]
As you wish to believe. I consider it part of the modern circus mentality that has crept into the church.
It's not a matter of what I wish to believe. The Bible is Biblical. I think even HAIRY and Classic would agree with that.
The red print signifies the words of Christ.
quote:Originally posted by Survivalist86
As you wish to believe. I consider it part of the modern circus mentality that has crept into the church.
It's not a matter of what I wish to believe. The Bible is Biblical. I think even HAIRY and Classic would agree with that.
The red print signifies the words of Christ.
Then, by your interpretation, Catholic Priests, Lutheran Priests, Orthodox Priests, and any who follow the teachings of these churches are doomed, as well as any person prior to 150 years ago. We are all doomed. It is what I love about being Lutheran. Modern Fundementalists have condemed me, Catholics have excommunicated all followers of Luther, and I will not even mention what the Muslims think about me. I have pretty much been condemned by the modern protestants, the oldschool Catholics and every other religion. I can live with that.
quote:Originally posted by k_townman
quote:Originally posted by Barzillia
k townman, most issues arise between Christianity and other faiths most clearly in their differing concepts of God.
For Christians, one significant concept would be the nature of Messiah, the Christ.
Is He a created being ?
Therein lies the rub.
The majority of Christian sects, including the Mormons, believe that Christ is the literal Son of God. Therefore, Jesus was created by God, the Father, and Mary.
Mormonism is not a Christian sect or denomination. Christianity is defined by the Word of God...the Bible...and the Bible only.
ECC - You do not know as much about the Mormons, as you profess. What is the full and correct name of the Mormon Church?
The Church of JESUS CHRIST of Latter Day Saints.
The LDS Church is more christian than all others sects dare to be. The LDS Church studies from the King James version of the Bible.
quote:Originally posted by ECC
quote:Originally posted by k_townman
quote:Originally posted by Barzillia
k townman, most issues arise between Christianity and other faiths most clearly in their differing concepts of God.
For Christians, one significant concept would be the nature of Messiah, the Christ.
Is He a created being ?
Therein lies the rub.
The majority of Christian sects, including the Mormons, believe that Christ is the literal Son of God. Therefore, Jesus was created by God, the Father, and Mary.
Mormonism is not a Christian sect or denomination. Christianity is defined by the Word of God...the Bible...and the Bible only.
ECC - You do not know as much about the Mormons, as you profess. What is the full and correct name of the Mormon Church?
The Church of JESUS CHRIST of Latter Day Saints.
The LDS Church is more christian than all others sects dare to be. The LDS Church studies from the King James version of the Bible.
Oh Oh...please send some more missionaries to my house. Last two you sent by started crying about 2 1/2 hours into a religious debate with me.[:D]
I can blow the book of mormon out of the water by using 2 animals. The horse, and the bee. If you are LDS, you know exactly what I am talking about.
I stand by ECC in his statement that Mormonism is a cult. While this is a gun forum, not a religious one, this topic is about religion and the cat is out of the bag. God loves all Mormons, but He does not love their church. It is a cult, and not a part of Christ's greater Church. I have friends who are Mormon, and they know I would not attack their personal beliefs. But if someone is considering joining LDS, as a Christian I have a duty to warn them.
River Rat - What is your definition of a "CULT"?
quote:Originally posted by k_townman
quote:Originally posted by ECC
quote:Originally posted by k_townman
quote:Originally posted by Barzillia
k townman, most issues arise between Christianity and other faiths most clearly in their differing concepts of God.
For Christians, one significant concept would be the nature of Messiah, the Christ.
Is He a created being ?
Therein lies the rub.
The majority of Christian sects, including the Mormons, believe that Christ is the literal Son of God. Therefore, Jesus was created by God, the Father, and Mary.
Mormonism is not a Christian sect or denomination. Christianity is defined by the Word of God...the Bible...and the Bible only.
ECC - You do not know as much about the Mormons, as you profess. What is the full and correct name of the Mormon Church?
The Church of JESUS CHRIST of Latter Day Saints.
The LDS Church is more christian than all others sects dare to be. The LDS Church studies from the King James version of the Bible.
Oh Oh...please send some more missionaries to my house. Last two you sent by started crying about 2 1/2 hours into a religious debate with me.[:D]
I can blow the book of mormon out of the water by using 2 animals. The horse, and the bee. If you are LDS, you know exactly what I am talking about.
I was raised in the LDS Church, and served a mission. Although, I haven't attended any meetings for many years. I'm what they call a jack-mormon. I would like to hear the story of the horse and the bee. That's a concept I've never heard of. I promise I won't cry. [:D]
quote:Originally posted by k_townman
quote:Originally posted by ECC
quote:Originally posted by k_townman
quote:Originally posted by Barzillia
k townman, most issues arise between Christianity and other faiths most clearly in their differing concepts of God.
For Christians, one significant concept would be the nature of Messiah, the Christ.
Is He a created being ?
Therein lies the rub.
The majority of Christian sects, including the Mormons, believe that Christ is the literal Son of God. Therefore, Jesus was created by God, the Father, and Mary.
Mormonism is not a Christian sect or denomination. Christianity is defined by the Word of God...the Bible...and the Bible only.
ECC - You do not know as much about the Mormons, as you profess. What is the full and correct name of the Mormon Church?
The Church of JESUS CHRIST of Latter Day Saints.
The LDS Church is more christian than all others sects dare to be. The LDS Church studies from the King James version of the Bible.
Taking the name certainly doesn't make it something that it is not.
In my opinion.
Barzilla - In your opinion, why is the LDS church not christian?
quote:Originally posted by ECC
quote:Originally posted by k_townman
quote:Originally posted by Barzillia
k townman, most issues arise between Christianity and other faiths most clearly in their differing concepts of God.
For Christians, one significant concept would be the nature of Messiah, the Christ.
Is He a created being ?
Therein lies the rub.
The majority of Christian sects, including the Mormons, believe that Christ is the literal Son of God. Therefore, Jesus was created by God, the Father, and Mary.
Mormonism is not a Christian sect or denomination. Christianity is defined by the Word of God...the Bible...and the Bible only.
ECC - You do not know as much about the Mormons, as you profess. What is the full and correct name of the Mormon Church?
The Church of JESUS CHRIST of Latter Day Saints.
The LDS Church is more christian than all others sects dare to be. The LDS Church studies from the King James version of the Bible.
Christianity is based upon the Bible...and nothing but the Bible. I stand behind my remarks. As defined by Scripture, Mormonism is a cult...and has no resemblance to Christianity.
No offense intended. I know a lot of good Mormon folks...
quote:Originally posted by Survivalist86
quote:Originally posted by JamesRK
quote:Originally posted by Survivalist86
As you wish to believe. I consider it part of the modern circus mentality that has crept into the church.
It's not a matter of what I wish to believe. The Bible is Biblical. I think even HAIRY and Classic would agree with that.
The red print signifies the words of Christ.
Then, by your interpretation, Catholic Priests, Lutheran Priests, Orthodox Priests, and any who follow the teachings of these churches are doomed, as well as any person prior to 150 years ago. We are all doomed. It is what I love about being Lutheran. Modern Fundementalists have condemed me, Catholics have excommunicated all followers of Luther, and I will not even mention what the Muslims think about me. I have pretty much been condemned by the modern protestants, the oldschool Catholics and every other religion. I can live with that.
What are you talking about ???
What have all of those priests done to be condemned in your eyes ?
You seem to have condemned something that you have never seen.
What is it that "fundamentalists" condemned you over ?
Honestly, I don't think that you have an idea of what fundamentalism actually is if you are placing Luther in a contrary corner to it.
What you are saying is really odd.[?]
About 20 years ago, I went on a journey of discovery. I got a degree in Central European History, pre-1400 and really started studying and attending all sorts of churches and religious services. I know exactly what fundementalism is, and is not.
Luther was NOT contrarian at all. The modern fundementalist movement came about much later then Luther. All he wanted to do was remove the outside influences from the Catholic faith. The Catholics sort of disliked him for it and sort of wanted to kill him. However, many of his grievences were rectified by the Catholics in 1965 with the Second Vatican council. Once again, the faith was assailed by outside influnces, not by the Catholics, but first by the apologetics of Calvin, then by John Wesley with the modern Methodist movement that preached a "Method" to salvation. I assume that is what you are talkin about.
I was kind of considered a strange guy in the small town I lived because I would attend a different church every Sunday ( or temple and adventist church on Saturday). I even had an opportunity to attend some that are considered somewhat outside the norm, including a Zoroastrist service, a Coptic service, and a Coptic/Gnostic service. The Gnostics were actually pretty cool and had some really good reading material.
But, eventually I started paring the bible with historical writings, records and stories. I started seeing where there were amazing, beat the odds, coincidences in history. (Sorry, I could write 30 pages on that, just take my word for it) . I started going back to these amazing, and what I considred divine inspired, events and started looking at the common factor. Through a lot of spiritual searching, reading, and praying I believe that the original Lutheran church, the conservative German one, is the most like the way the church was set up 1800+ years ago. There are many things that have crept into many of the churches. Some are salvation issues, and some are not. The ones that have salvation issues, are, in my opinion teaching a false doctrine. Those that have allowed some of the secular stuff that are not salvation issues, I have no problem with.
Whew...sorry, I get pretty long winded when I talk about religion or history.
None of this was meant to offend. It is just my perception based on years of study, readings of the greatest minds in history and my common sense.
quote:Originally posted by k_townman
quote:Originally posted by ECC
quote:Originally posted by k_townman
quote:Originally posted by Barzillia
k townman, most issues arise between Christianity and other faiths most clearly in their differing concepts of God.
For Christians, one significant concept would be the nature of Messiah, the Christ.
Is He a created being ?
Therein lies the rub.
The majority of Christian sects, including the Mormons, believe that Christ is the literal Son of God. Therefore, Jesus was created by God, the Father, and Mary.
Mormonism is not a Christian sect or denomination. Christianity is defined by the Word of God...the Bible...and the Bible only.
ECC - You do not know as much about the Mormons, as you profess. What is the full and correct name of the Mormon Church?
The Church of JESUS CHRIST of Latter Day Saints.
The LDS Church is more christian than all others sects dare to be. The LDS Church studies from the King James version of the Bible.
Christianity is based upon the Bible...and nothing but the Bible. I stand behind my remarks. As defined by Scripture, Mormonism is a cult...and has no resemblance to Christianity.
No offense intended. I know a lot of good Mormon folks...
ECC - Please show me the scripture reference that says that the LDS Church is a Cult.
quote:Originally posted by Survivalist86
quote:Originally posted by k_townman
quote:Originally posted by ECC
quote:Originally posted by k_townman
quote:Originally posted by Barzillia
k townman, most issues arise between Christianity and other faiths most clearly in their differing concepts of God.
For Christians, one significant concept would be the nature of Messiah, the Christ.
Is He a created being ?
Therein lies the rub.
The majority of Christian sects, including the Mormons, believe that Christ is the literal Son of God. Therefore, Jesus was created by God, the Father, and Mary.
Mormonism is not a Christian sect or denomination. Christianity is defined by the Word of God...the Bible...and the Bible only.
ECC - You do not know as much about the Mormons, as you profess. What is the full and correct name of the Mormon Church?
The Church of JESUS CHRIST of Latter Day Saints.
The LDS Church is more christian than all others sects dare to be. The LDS Church studies from the King James version of the Bible.
Oh Oh...please send some more missionaries to my house. Last two you sent by started crying about 2 1/2 hours into a religious debate with me.[:D]
I can blow the book of mormon out of the water by using 2 animals. The horse, and the bee. If you are LDS, you know exactly what I am talking about.
I was raised in the LDS Church, and served a mission. Although, I haven't attended any meetings for many years. I'm what they call a jack-mormon. I would like to hear the story of the horse and the bee. That's a concept I've never heard of. I promise I won't cry. [:D]
According to the writings in the Book Of Mormon, the 13th tribe of Israel came to America and set up a great empire, correct? There are many mentionings of the great battles in the new world involving Chariots, and that the people drank milk mixed with honey..correct?
Horses did not come to the New World until the SPanards introduced them, and there is no archeological evidence, no bones, no graves to show that they were here any earlier.
Bees were introduced by the French. And we all know bees have adapted perfectly to the American continent and have natrualized and spread about the whole New world.
The American Indian did not have the wheel. There has never been a case of a society throughout history, who had the wheel, ever losing it.
Is there evidence of advanced civilizations having existed here before the time of the Indians? Yep. Was it Semetic? Nope.
quote:Originally posted by ECC
quote:Originally posted by k_townman
quote:Originally posted by ECC
quote:Originally posted by k_townman
quote:Originally posted by Barzillia
k townman, most issues arise between Christianity and other faiths most clearly in their differing concepts of God.
For Christians, one significant concept would be the nature of Messiah, the Christ.
Is He a created being ?
Therein lies the rub.
The majority of Christian sects, including the Mormons, believe that Christ is the literal Son of God. Therefore, Jesus was created by God, the Father, and Mary.
Mormonism is not a Christian sect or denomination. Christianity is defined by the Word of God...the Bible...and the Bible only.
ECC - You do not know as much about the Mormons, as you profess. What is the full and correct name of the Mormon Church?
The Church of JESUS CHRIST of Latter Day Saints.
The LDS Church is more christian than all others sects dare to be. The LDS Church studies from the King James version of the Bible.
Christianity is based upon the Bible...and nothing but the Bible. I stand behind my remarks. As defined by Scripture, Mormonism is a cult...and has no resemblance to Christianity.
No offense intended. I know a lot of good Mormon folks...
ECC - Please show me the scripture reference that says that the LDS Church is a Cult.
Rev 22:18
For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
OF THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY SAINTS
History of the Church, Vol. 4, pp. 535-541
1 We believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost.
2 We believe that men will be punished for their own sins, and not for Adam's transgression.
3 We believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel.
4 We believe that the first principles and ordinances of the Gospel are: first, Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ; second, Repentance; third, Baptism by immersion for the remission of sins; fourth, Laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost.
5 We believe that a man must be called of God, by prophecy, and by the laying on of hands by those who are in authority, to preach the Gospel and administer in the ordinances thereof.
6 We believe in the same organization that existed in the Primitive Church, namely, apostles, prophets, pastors, teachers, evangelists, and so forth.
7 We believe in the gift of tongues, prophecy, revelation, visions, healing, interpretation of tongues, and so forth.
8 We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated ccorrectly; we also believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God.
9 We believe all that God has revealed, all that He does now reveal, and we believe that He will yet reveal many great and important things pertaining to the Kingdom of God.
10 We believe in the literal gathering of Israel and in the restoration of the Ten Tribes; that Zion (the New Jerusalem) will be built upon the American continent; that Christ will reign personally upon the earth; and, that the earth will be renewed and receive its paradisiacal glory.
11 We claim the aprivilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.
12 We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in cobeying, honoring, and sustaining the law.
13 We believe in being honest, true, chaste, benevolent, virtuous, and in doing egood to all men; indeed, we may say that we follow the admonition of Paul-We believe all things, we hope all things, we have endured many things, and hope to be able to endure all things. If there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy, we seek after these things.
Joseph Smith
The Official Scriptures of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints
c 2006 Intellectual Reserve, Inc. All rights reserved.
Rights and use information. Privacy policy. < Previous
Just let me say that I'm not the best representative for the LDS Church. You can go to lds.org for more answers.
quote:Originally posted by k_townman
quote:Originally posted by ECC
quote:Originally posted by k_townman
quote:Originally posted by ECC
quote:Originally posted by k_townman
quote:Originally posted by Barzillia
k townman, most issues arise between Christianity and other faiths most clearly in their differing concepts of God.
For Christians, one significant concept would be the nature of Messiah, the Christ.
Is He a created being ?
Therein lies the rub.
The majority of Christian sects, including the Mormons, believe that Christ is the literal Son of God. Therefore, Jesus was created by God, the Father, and Mary.
Mormonism is not a Christian sect or denomination. Christianity is defined by the Word of God...the Bible...and the Bible only.
ECC - You do not know as much about the Mormons, as you profess. What is the full and correct name of the Mormon Church?
The Church of JESUS CHRIST of Latter Day Saints.
The LDS Church is more christian than all others sects dare to be. The LDS Church studies from the King James version of the Bible.
Christianity is based upon the Bible...and nothing but the Bible. I stand behind my remarks. As defined by Scripture, Mormonism is a cult...and has no resemblance to Christianity.
No offense intended. I know a lot of good Mormon folks...
ECC - Please show me the scripture reference that says that the LDS Church is a Cult.
Rev 22:18
For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
OK. John the Revelator told us not to add anything to the book of Revelations.
The LDS Church has added nothing to the Old, or the New, testament.
THE ARTICLES OF FAITH
OF THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY SAINTS
History of the Church, Vol. 4, pp. 535-541
1 We believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost.
2 We believe that men will be punished for their own sins, and not for Adam's transgression.
3 We believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel.
4 We believe that the first principles and ordinances of the Gospel are: first, Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ; second, Repentance; third, Baptism by immersion for the remission of sins; fourth, Laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost.
5 We believe that a man must be called of God, by prophecy, and by the laying on of hands by those who are in authority, to preach the Gospel and administer in the ordinances thereof.
6 We believe in the same organization that existed in the Primitive Church, namely, apostles, prophets, pastors, teachers, evangelists, and so forth.
7 We believe in the gift of tongues, prophecy, revelation, visions, healing, interpretation of tongues, and so forth.
8 We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated ccorrectly; we also believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God.
9 We believe all that God has revealed, all that He does now reveal, and we believe that He will yet reveal many great and important things pertaining to the Kingdom of God.
10 We believe in the literal gathering of Israel and in the restoration of the Ten Tribes; that Zion (the New Jerusalem) will be built upon the American continent; that Christ will reign personally upon the earth; and, that the earth will be renewed and receive its paradisiacal glory.
11 We claim the aprivilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.
12 We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in cobeying, honoring, and sustaining the law.
13 We believe in being honest, true, chaste, benevolent, virtuous, and in doing egood to all men; indeed, we may say that we follow the admonition of Paul-We believe all things, we hope all things, we have endured many things, and hope to be able to endure all things. If there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy, we seek after these things.
Joseph Smith
The Official Scriptures of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints
c 2006 Intellectual Reserve, Inc. All rights reserved.
Rights and use information. Privacy policy. < Previous
Just let me say that I'm not the best representative for the LDS Church. You can go to lds.org for more answers.
Explain to me why J Smith was a diviner of Magic, prior to founding the church. Explain to me why the church has paid huge amounts of money to buy up all the writings by J Smith and those around him and refuse to allow them to be released to the public except for their sanatized versions? Explain to me why the bible very specifically states that poligamy was wrong, yet was practiced freely amongst J Smith, B Young and others? Explain to me why your magic underwear contain Masonic symbols? Explain to me the justification for marrying of the dead, babtism of the dead and justification of the dead? Where in the bible does it say that when you die, you will have your own universe? What universe did Jesus come from? Expalin his use of his magic stones for finding lost treasure for a price to customers? Were these the same magic stones he used to translate the words of god? Why does the LDS church denouce plural marriage? Why does the LDS church discourage questioning of the doctrine? Why has the "elders" in the LDS church made almost 4000 changes to the book of Mormon since 1830? Where are the horses? Where are the Bees? Why did American Indians not have the wheel?
Now, that being said, I was rasied around Mormons and have nothing personal at all against y'all. My best friend growing up was LDS. Made a great designated driver when we turned 16[:D]. Plus, as long as I have firearms, and my mormon neighbors have their 7 years worth of food, I'm eating good! [:D]
quote:Originally posted by Survivalist86
quote:Originally posted by k_townman
quote:Originally posted by ECC
quote:Originally posted by k_townman
quote:Originally posted by ECC
quote:Originally posted by k_townman
quote:Originally posted by Barzillia
k townman, most issues arise between Christianity and other faiths most clearly in their differing concepts of God.
For Christians, one significant concept would be the nature of Messiah, the Christ.
Is He a created being ?
Therein lies the rub.
The majority of Christian sects, including the Mormons, believe that Christ is the literal Son of God. Therefore, Jesus was created by God, the Father, and Mary.
Mormonism is not a Christian sect or denomination. Christianity is defined by the Word of God...the Bible...and the Bible only.
ECC - You do not know as much about the Mormons, as you profess. What is the full and correct name of the Mormon Church?
The Church of JESUS CHRIST of Latter Day Saints.
The LDS Church is more christian than all others sects dare to be. The LDS Church studies from the King James version of the Bible.
Christianity is based upon the Bible...and nothing but the Bible. I stand behind my remarks. As defined by Scripture, Mormonism is a cult...and has no resemblance to Christianity.
No offense intended. I know a lot of good Mormon folks...
ECC - Please show me the scripture reference that says that the LDS Church is a Cult.
Rev 22:18
For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
OK. John the Revelator told us not to add anything to the book of Revelations.
The LDS Church has added nothing to the Old, or the New, testament.
Except a whole book.
quote:Originally posted by k_townman
quote:Originally posted by Survivalist86
quote:Originally posted by k_townman
quote:Originally posted by ECC
quote:Originally posted by k_townman
quote:Originally posted by Barzillia
k townman, most issues arise between Christianity and other faiths most clearly in their differing concepts of God.
For Christians, one significant concept would be the nature of Messiah, the Christ.
Is He a created being ?
Therein lies the rub.
The majority of Christian sects, including the Mormons, believe that Christ is the literal Son of God. Therefore, Jesus was created by God, the Father, and Mary.
Mormonism is not a Christian sect or denomination. Christianity is defined by the Word of God...the Bible...and the Bible only.
ECC - You do not know as much about the Mormons, as you profess. What is the full and correct name of the Mormon Church?
The Church of JESUS CHRIST of Latter Day Saints.
The LDS Church is more christian than all others sects dare to be. The LDS Church studies from the King James version of the Bible.
Oh Oh...please send some more missionaries to my house. Last two you sent by started crying about 2 1/2 hours into a religious debate with me.[:D]
I can blow the book of mormon out of the water by using 2 animals. The horse, and the bee. If you are LDS, you know exactly what I am talking about.
I was raised in the LDS Church, and served a mission. Although, I haven't attended any meetings for many years. I'm what they call a jack-mormon. I would like to hear the story of the horse and the bee. That's a concept I've never heard of. I promise I won't cry. [:D]
According to the writings in the Book Of Mormon, the 13th tribe of Israel came to America and set up a great empire, correct? There are many mentionings of the great battles in the new world involving Chariots, and that the people drank milk mixed with honey..correct?
Horses did not come to the New World until the SPanards introduced them, and there is no archeological evidence, no bones, no graves to show that they were here any earlier.
Bees were introduced by the French. And we all know bees have adapted perfectly to the American continent and have natrualized and spread about the whole New world.
The American Indian did not have the wheel. There has never been a case of a society throughout history, who had the wheel, ever losing it.
Is there evidence of advanced civilizations having existed here before the time of the Indians? Yep. Was it Semetic? Nope.
All I have to say to that is this:
Trying to prove the validity of religion, using manmade science, is futile.
I know there is a scripture that refers to conditions in the last days. Part of it says something like, "Men will be ever learning, and never able to come to a knowledge of the truth."
Are you refering to The Book of Mormon?
Now, that being said, I was rasied around Mormons and have nothing personal at all against y'all. My best friend growing up was LDS. Made a great designated driver when we turned 16. Plus, as long as I have firearms, and my mormon neighbors have their 7 years worth of food, I'm eating good!
Please don't accept my words as being anything but my personal feelings. You can get answers to your questions at lds.org.
Except a whole book.
Are you refering to The Book of Mormon?
Doctrine and Covenants
Pearl of Great Price
Joseph Smiths Translation of the Bible
Book of Mormon
quote:Originally posted by k_townman
Except a whole book.
Are you refering to The Book of Mormon?
Doctrine and Covenants
Pearl of Great Price
Joseph Smiths Translation of the Bible
Book of Mormon
Those are separate books. Not part of, or an addition to, The Bible.
Explain to me why J Smith was a diviner of Magic, prior to founding the church. Explain to me why the church has paid huge amounts of money to buy up all the writings by J Smith and those around him and refuse to allow them to be released to the public except for their sanatized versions? Explain to me why the bible very specifically states that poligamy was wrong, yet was practiced freely amongst J Smith, B Young and others? Explain to me why your magic underwear contain Masonic symbols? Explain to me the justification for marrying of the dead, babtism of the dead and justification of the dead? Where in the bible does it say that when you die, you will have your own universe? What universe did Jesus come from? Expalin his use of his magic stones for finding lost treasure for a price to customers? Were these the same magic stones he used to translate the words of god? Why does the LDS church denouce plural marriage? Why does the LDS church discourage questioning of the doctrine? Why has the "elders" in the LDS church made almost 4000 changes to the book of Mormon since 1830? Where are the horses? Where are the Bees? Why did American Indians not have the wheel?
Now, that being said, I was rasied around Mormons and have nothing personal at all against y'all. My best friend growing up was LDS. Made a great designated driver when we turned 16. Plus, as long as I have firearms, and my mormon neighbors have their 7 years worth of food, I'm eating good!
Please don't accept my words as being anything but my personal feelings. You can get answers to your questions at lds.org.
You can never get the same answer twice out of them. So many of their original doctrine has been changed and they deny the original one. I sent numerous e-mails to the good folks who answer their e-mails that I am sure I made the "banned" list. A lot of them, they refused to answer, their answers to many of them were that the forces of evil have spread propaganda against the prophet and that it is not true. I do not think they took kindly to my many questions. The questions about horses and bees was basically answered with "The died off" when I asked about where the bones were, I was told that I needed to pray and feel the calling in my breast. It is a matter of faith. That does not cut it for me.
When the Bible talks about Jerusalem...I can see a Jerusalem. The Romans kept amazing records of lots of things, and the Roman records concur with the bible. The writings of Joseph Smith have nothing to corroborate them, contradict the bible on so many levels, and the LDS church has created a program to sanatize a lot of the controversial statements made in the past.
Again, bro, don't take this as a personal attack. Like I said in my previous statement, I studied this stuff extensively. I could not get answers, and the LDS folks I spoke with did the Texas Side Step on every question I had.
However, I would much rather marry a Mormon girl then a secular one. She would have to convert though [:D]
OK. S T O P! I am not going to teach any sunday school lessons about the LDS Church. There are folks more qualified than me, who would be happy to answer your questions. Please, seek them out.
[:D][:D][:D]
Thought if you were a member of a faith, you would know why? [:D]
quote:Originally posted by k_townman
OK. S T O P! I am not going to teach any sunday school lessons about the LDS Church. There are folks more qualified than me, who would be happy to answer your questions. Please, seek them out.
[:D][:D][:D]
Thought if you were a member of a faith, you would know why? [:D]
I am a member of the LDS Church, in name only. I have not been a practising member for many years. I just sort of do my own thing, and try not to piss off my neighbors.[:D][;)][8D][:)][:p][:o)]
Then, by your interpretation, Catholic Priests, Lutheran Priests, Orthodox Priests, and any who follow the teachings of these churches are doomed, as well as any person prior to 150 years ago. We are all doomed. It is what I love about being Lutheran. Modern Fundementalists have condemed me, Catholics have excommunicated all followers of Luther, and I will not even mention what the Muslims think about me. I have pretty much been condemned by the modern protestants, the oldschool Catholics and every other religion. I can live with that.
Where the hell did that come from?
I love it when somebody goes off on some mindless rant and credits me with saying something they think I said or something they wish I said.
That is a total invention of your twisted mind. I challenge you to find where I have ever said anything remotely similar to what you claim I said.
If you would try paying attention to what anyone else says instead of what you plan to say next you might be able to have a two sided conversation. I see that won't happen, so just continue your predetermined monolog.
I would have loved to hear that one.
According to the writings in the Book Of Mormon, the 13th tribe of Israel came to America and set up a great empire, correct? There are many mentionings of the great battles in the new world involving Chariots, and that the people drank milk mixed with honey..correct?
Horses did not come to the New World until the SPanards introduced them, and there is no archeological evidence, no bones, no graves to show that they were here any earlier.
Bees were introduced by the French. And we all know bees have adapted perfectly to the American continent and have natrualized and spread about the whole New world.
Well, since you asked, no, that's not correct. There is/was no 13th tribe of Israel. According to the writings in the Book of Mormon, the Jaredites came to America. The Jaredites were supposed to be descended from Jared and his brother from the Tower of Babel.
You are correct that the Spaniards were the first to bring horses to America, but the European honeybee was first brought to America from England to Virginia in 1622.
I've never been on a "journey of discovery" and I don't have a degree in Central European History, and I'm not a student of religion, but when I don't have a clue what I'm talking about I usually refrain from flapping my lip.
When you were doing all this research in your small town with various Churches and Temples which included Adventist Church, Zoroastrist services, Coptic services and Coptic/Gnostic services, if you had done a little less talking and a little more listening you might have learned something about Mormons, horses and bees.
Your small town reminds me of the joke about the town which was so small everybody had to take turns being the town drunk. With that many Churches, Temples and Meeting Places in a small town, people must have had to take turns being Christian, Jew and Moslem.
quote:Originally posted by Survivalist86
According to the writings in the Book Of Mormon, the 13th tribe of Israel came to America and set up a great empire, correct? There are many mentionings of the great battles in the new world involving Chariots, and that the people drank milk mixed with honey..correct?
Horses did not come to the New World until the SPanards introduced them, and there is no archeological evidence, no bones, no graves to show that they were here any earlier.
Bees were introduced by the French. And we all know bees have adapted perfectly to the American continent and have natrualized and spread about the whole New world.
Well, since you asked, no, that's not correct. There is/was no 13th tribe of Israel. According to the writings in the Book of Mormon, the Jaredites came to America. The Jaredites were supposed to be descended from Jared and his brother from the Tower of Babel.
You are correct that the Spaniards were the first to bring horses to America, but the European honeybee was first brought to America from England to Virginia in 1622.
I've never been on a "journey of discovery" and I don't have a degree in Central European History, and I'm not a student of religion, but when I don't have a clue what I'm talking about I usually refrain from flapping my lip.
When you were doing all this research in your small town with various Churches and Temples which included Adventist Church, Zoroastrist services, Coptic services and Coptic/Gnostic services, if you had done a little less talking and a little more listening you might have learned something about Mormons, horses and bees.
Your small town reminds me of the joke about the town which was so small everybody had to take turns being the town drunk. With that many Churches, Temples and Meeting Places in a small town, people must have had to take turns being Christian, Jew and Moslem.
How can that be? The 13th tribe (the Jaredidites as you call them) brought horses and bees. Which is it?
Oh wait. You cannot answer because it is complete BS propaganda. Bet you are one of those that called Mohammad a child molester because one of his wives was 9 years old. Any idea how old some of Joseph Smith's 33 wives were?
Now I took the time and pulled out some of my notes from many mooms ago, and I will show that you faith is not Christian by quoting your own church's "sacred" texts.
" ther is no salvation without accepting Joseph Smith. If Joseph Smith was verily a prophet, and if he told the truth...no man can reject that testimony without incurring the most dreadful consequences, for he cannot enter the kingdom of God"...Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 1, p.190
"No man or woman in this dispensation will ever enter into the celestial kingdom of God without the consent of Joseph Smith...every man and woman must have the certificate of Joseph Smith, junior, as a passport to their entrance into the mansion where God and Christ are... [Joseph Smith] reigns there as supreme a being in his sphere, capacity, and calling, as God does in heaven. Many will exclaim-"Oh, that is very disagreeable! It is preposterous! We cannot bear the thought!" But it is true."... Journal of Discourses, vol. 7, p.289-91
"He that confesseth not that Jesus has come in the flesh and sent Joseph Smith with the fullness of the Gospel to this generation, is not of God, but is anti-christ"...Journal of Discourses, vol. 9, p.312
Anyhow, you can educate yourself at this site. Unlike the folks at LDS.org, they actually answer questions and won't send you e-mails accusing you of being predjudiced against their church.
It is kind of funny. You used the same attack method that your answer people did. Accused the person asking the questions of being "a joke". That part of your early indoctrination too? Just curious.
http://www.mrm.org/
quote:Originally posted by JamesRK
quote:Originally posted by Survivalist86
According to the writings in the Book Of Mormon, the 13th tribe of Israel came to America and set up a great empire, correct? There are many mentionings of the great battles in the new world involving Chariots, and that the people drank milk mixed with honey..correct?
Horses did not come to the New World until the SPanards introduced them, and there is no archeological evidence, no bones, no graves to show that they were here any earlier.
Bees were introduced by the French. And we all know bees have adapted perfectly to the American continent and have natrualized and spread about the whole New world.
Well, since you asked, no, that's not correct. There is/was no 13th tribe of Israel. According to the writings in the Book of Mormon, the Jaredites came to America. The Jaredites were supposed to be descended from Jared and his brother from the Tower of Babel.
You are correct that the Spaniards were the first to bring horses to America, but the European honeybee was first brought to America from England to Virginia in 1622.
I've never been on a "journey of discovery" and I don't have a degree in Central European History, and I'm not a student of religion, but when I don't have a clue what I'm talking about I usually refrain from flapping my lip.
When you were doing all this research in your small town with various Churches and Temples which included Adventist Church, Zoroastrist services, Coptic services and Coptic/Gnostic services, if you had done a little less talking and a little more listening you might have learned something about Mormons, horses and bees.
Your small town reminds me of the joke about the town which was so small everybody had to take turns being the town drunk. With that many Churches, Temples and Meeting Places in a small town, people must have had to take turns being Christian, Jew and Moslem.
How can that be? The 13th tribe (the Jaredidites as you call them) brought horses and bees. Which is it?
Oh wait. You cannot answer because it is complete BS propaganda. Bet you are one of those that called Mohammad a child molester because one of his wives was 9 years old. Any idea how old some of Joseph Smith's 33 wives were?
Now I took the time and pulled out some of my notes from many mooms ago, and I will show that you faith is not Christian by quoting your own church's "sacred" texts.
" ther is no salvation without accepting Joseph Smith. If Joseph Smith was verily a prophet, and if he told the truth...no man can reject that testimony without incurring the most dreadful consequences, for he cannot enter the kingdom of God"...Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 1, p.190
"No man or woman in this dispensation will ever enter into the celestial kingdom of God without the consent of Joseph Smith...every man and woman must have the certificate of Joseph Smith, junior, as a passport to their entrance into the mansion where God and Christ are... [Joseph Smith] reigns there as supreme a being in his sphere, capacity, and calling, as God does in heaven. Many will exclaim-"Oh, that is very disagreeable! It is preposterous! We cannot bear the thought!" But it is true."... Journal of Discourses, vol. 7, p.289-91
"He that confesseth not that Jesus has come in the flesh and sent Joseph Smith with the fullness of the Gospel to this generation, is not of God, but is anti-christ"...Journal of Discourses, vol. 9, p.312
Anyhow, you can educate yourself at this site. Unlike the folks at LDS.org, they actually answer questions and won't send you e-mails accusing you of being predjudiced against their church.
It is kind of funny. You used the same attack method that your answer people did. Accused the person asking the questions of being "a joke". That part of your early indoctrination too? Just curious.
http://www.mrm.org/
Thank you for demonstrating my point so clearly. I have never said or implied that I am a Mormon. I am a Baptist. A Fundamentalist.
quote:Originally posted by Survivalist86
I know exactly what fundementalism is, and is not.
I suspect that you know about as much about Fundamentalists as you have demonstrated you know about the twelve tribes of Israel and honeybees.
Yeah...you mean Lucifer...Yeah, I didn't even go there. According to Mormons, Jesus Christ is supposed to be the brother of Lucifer (Satan)...who by the way is/was an angel...not a man, nor God.
You cannot reconcile Mormonism with Christianity...no matter how hard you try to do it.
Jesus the Christ is the central figure, and the Head, or leader of the LDS Church. Mormons pray to, and worship God through, and in the name of Jesus Christ.
What, more than that, would qualify them as christians?
quote:But the point comes down to the issue of whether I worship a god who was once a man, as we are...and a christ, a created being and brother to another high created being who shall remain nameless at this point.
Yeah...you mean Lucifer...Yeah, I didn't even go there. According to Mormons, Jesus Christ is supposed to be the brother of Lucifer (Satan)...who by the way is/was an angel...not a man, nor God.
You cannot reconcile Mormonism with Christianity...no matter how hard you try to do it.
ECC - Jesus Christ is also your brother, as if Lucifer. Since we are all, literally, sons and daughters of the Most High God, Elohim.
The LDS Church is the embodiment of every christian ideology. Every aspect of christianity is revered, worshipped, and regarded as most sacred, in the teachings, concepts, and policies of the LDS Church.
That is the best I can do to explain it to you.