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Religion

thunderboltthunderbolt Member Posts: 6,041 ✭✭✭
edited June 2002 in General Discussion
Tired of religious topics? Then read no further. If, however, you
are curious about religion, or are looking for faith, read on. There are many fake religions and there are many fakes in true religion. The basis for my religion is the King James 1611 Bible.
I believe that Jesus is the Son of God and that his death on the cross
paid for my sins and saved my soul. Here are some verses that help explain salvation:
Romans 3:10 "As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:"

Romans 3:23 "For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;"

Romans 5:12 "Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:"

Romans 6:23 "For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord."

Roman 5:8 "But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us."

Romans 10:8-10 "But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach; That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead,
thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto rightousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation."

Romans 10:13 "For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved."

Sin separates man from God. We are all sinners, because we were born with a sin nature(passed down from Adam and Eve). Jesus was sent as a sacrifice to pay for our sins. Accepting Jesus means your sins are forgiven and forgotten. You then have a new birth and are a new creature. The best part is, ANYONE can be saved! Gays, murderers,
witches, pedophiles, adulterers and even moral people can be saved.
Anyone can be saved. Jesus will save anyone who asks to be saved.
If you know in your heart that you need a new life, Jesus will give
it to you. Just call on Him, confess your sins, and ask Him to save your soul. It is that easy, and that difficult.
«134

Comments

  • thunderboltthunderbolt Member Posts: 6,041 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I dunno...maybe we need a Religion forum?
  • nunnnunn Forums Admins, Member, Moderator Posts: 36,085 ******
    edited November -1
    Well said.

    SIG pistol armorer/FFL Dealer/Full time Peace Officer, Moderator of General Discussion Board on Gunbroker. Visit www.gunbroker.com, the best gun auction site on the Net! Email davidnunn@texoma.net
  • squeakycsqueakyc Member Posts: 204 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Some great verses. I hope I have time to confess my sins on my death bed to get into the house of the Lord.
  • Jody CommanderJody Commander Member Posts: 855 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Is your religion the one TRUE religion? you make mention of fakes in your post,how are WE to know your religion is real to any other than yourself? Perhaps each of us has a unique and personalized religion that we carry with us like our DNA? Parroting verse from one religions credo/history is lockstep thinking, Your maker gave you the power of reason, or freewill as some call it,the exercise of this free will is why there is more than one religion. My religion is MY religion, it is shared only by my maker and Me, My maker does not require me to exhort HIS cause or to explain and attempt to persuade others of HIS superiority to all other forms of belief. He is My GOD, not better, not worse, than Your GOD, just My God. The desire in some people to promote a religion seems sad somehow, as though they feel lonely in their belief and wish to take some comfort in the spiritual reinforcement of numbers of like minded individuals. I see correlation in cell growth, cells bonding with like cells to form larger organisms so that they can become stronger so as to battle with other organisims for survival, is this a function of a God or a function of nature? so many questions, does nature follow a Gods plan, or do the Gods follow natures plan? I don't think a Jerry Falwell or the Pope or an Ayahtollah have the answers, the answer can only be found within your own mind. Look there for YOUR God.
  • Bushy ARBushy AR Member Posts: 564 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Jody Commander.,,thank you for saving me alot of typing!! You have summed up my beliefs quite well.I concider myself a Deist and what you put into words is what I feel.My God is my own and my relationship with my creator is also my own.God gave me the ability to reason and think for myself.I do not believe in written revalation,no matter the version or language.I feel no overwhelming desire to "educate and convert the ignorant".Therefore what ever what works for others I could care less.It is their choice.Organized religion has caused so much death and destruction it is rediculous. Saying "our way is the right way" has become the "us versus them" mentality. I am an infidel to some,and a heathen to others.I could care less.The problem is theirs,not mine.I believe that fundamentalist fanaticism in any form is just more idiocy and intolerance. This world was given to us to enjoy but arguing and killing each other in the name of God will be it's destruction.Superstition,hate,and fear is not,I believe,how God wants us to worship.

    Little people talk about people,regular people talk about things,and big people talk about ideas.
  • anderskandersk Member Posts: 3,627 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Dear squeakyc,

    You said "Some great verses. I hope I have time to confess my sins on my death bed to get into the house of the Lord."

    I agree some great verses ... other newer translations like the New International Version are easier to read but the message is the same! And the message is great. Religion is man's attempt to reach God ... the Bible teaches the other way around. The message of the Bible is God's attempt to reach man! Because of his love and grace he leaves the choice up to us!

    To the second part of the above quote from squeakyc ... I say, "Why wait until you're about to die? Man, you're missing out on the action! The action of experiencing the Holy Spirit of God transforming us to become more like Jesus! Man, that is one exciting adventure!

    Ken
  • concealedG36concealedG36 Member Posts: 3,566 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I don't know why I keep posting on these religion threads, I feel compelled I guess.

    One quick question, you said "I believe that Jesus is the Son of God and that his death on the cross paid for my sins and saved my soul".

    Who required payment? God? Why does he need to be paid? Or, the "devil"? I don't understand.

    Thanks,
    G36



    Gun Control Disarms Victims, NOT Criminals
  • turboturbo Member Posts: 820 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:


    Who required payment? God? Why does he need to be paid? Or, the "devil"? I don't understand.

    Thanks,
    G36










    Concealed G36,

    I can see you are wrestling with this issue, from what you have posted.

    You understand that our system of justice in this country has been called a Judeo Christian judicial system of laws which is traced back to the Laws of Moses, which were comprised of the written law (the 10 Commandments and the Ordinances) , the Ordinances where that portion of the Law of Moses which explained what had to be done to satisfy the broken law of God. The law was given to Moses by God on Mt. Sinai, (Book of Exodus.)

    ( Many will quote Blackstone, and English law as the foundation for Americas judicial form of laws, it matters not what is credited for our system of laws in this country; the fact is they amount to nothing more than moral laws legislated in their most basic of sense in order to produce trust in a civilized form of government. Thou shalt not Kill, Thou shalt not steal, of these of course, we have millions that have been added thruout the years. etc. See Romans chap 13.)

    And in those generations when the Laws of Moses were observed in Israel, it was under the honor system and, people could also, be accused, tried and found guilty of breaking the law, they were sentenced according to the Law of Moses , if he murdered , his own life was required as God had laid down this in the law; he also established that the soul that sinneth it shall die, according to the Bible "sin is the breaking of the law".

    When a man examined himself, and concluded he had broken one of God's laws he was required to bring a sacrificial offering to make an atonement for his sins at the temple , where a priest would offer up the life of this animal as an atonement for the mans sin. The entire book of Leviticus in the old testament lays down Gods law and the observation of the ordinances and any who wanted to be forgiven by God for their sin of breaking His law, had to observe the ordinances, when the sentence was satisfied the man would be restored to fellowship with GOD.

    Your question ; "Who required payment?"

    Is a very good question, the answer is , God the offended party (in the case of Sin), he requires payment; by the shedding of blood, the life of all flesh is in the blood, and it is the blood that makes atonement for the soul. Lev 17:11.

    Perfect justice requires PAYMENT. In order for justice to be served, payment for the breaking of the law must be made, complete restitution to the offended party must be made, in order to be found justified as fulfilling the judgment of the guilty.

    When you are charged with an infraction (breaking of the law), if found guilty, your judgement demands payment, whether incarceration or the paying of a fine in order to satisfy the judgement, upon payment in full, you are again restored fully as a law abiding citizen. You undertsand this perfectly I trust.

    As much as I hate to admit it, our country's system of justice has strayed far from the original intent and reason for laws, and that is why , we are UNABLE to see the real spirit of the law. In our country today, criminals found guilty of crimes against victims NEVER are required to make perfect and total restitution to the offended party before being considered as paying for their crimes;

    in the small claims and civil courts the right to "restitution" is being observed. The offended party submits his claim for loss and the courts render their judgment based on the claim, and the offending party is not released until full payment is made..

    You have heard many times that there is, "the letter of the law" and "the spirit of the law"; the letter of the law is for those who obey the law, as long as the law is obeyed, that very law is our friend; however, when we break the law , that same law becomes our enemy, because it demands judgment , and when the sentence is satisfied, justice has been served, the same law that found us guilty, once again becomes our friend again so long as we keep it perfectly. The spirit of the law, is the tangible part of the judicial system that gives one who obeys the law, the garauntee that he has rights to claim and receive justice, before a JUDGE.

    Such is the law of God, justice requires the shedding of the life's blood of the offending party, in the case of the breaking of Gods law; in the old testament times, Gods ordinances allowed a man who judged himself and wanted to get right with God, to bring an animal to the temple to be offered up in place of his own life as a sin offering, and God being merciful,and loving, accepted the blood of the innocent animals blood in place of the sinners; until God sent his only begotten Son, who died once and for all, as Gods own sacrificial Lamb, whose blood sacrifice is sufficient to pay for all the sins of all men, forever, as stated in Hebrews chap 10. by the death of Jesus, the ordinances in the law of Moses were abolished forever.

    Because of this;

    Today God is offering a pardon for SIN, that has been fully paid for by the Lamb of God who taketh away the sin of the world, to every person willing to believe Him.

    To reject such an offer, is likened to a criminal on death row rejecting the Presidents pardon on the day of his execution, where can he turn to in appealing his conviction, after he has rejected the only pardon that can save him?

    The only difference here is, men who reject God today, as squeakyc says, can repent and receive him on their death bed, TOMORROW, although I believe few ever really seek him in their last days, this is why the invitation is of great urgency, today is the day of salvation, no one is guaranteed that tomorrow the sun will rise for them.


    All this shows is a a gracious God, and merciful, slow to anger, and of great kindness, not willing that any should perish, but that ALL should come to repentance.


    I know this sounds like preaching, but there is no other way to express this.



    "For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe." (1 Cor 1:21)





    .


    "The great object is that every man.... everyone who is able may have a gun." Patrick Henry
  • AntiqueDrAntiqueDr Member Posts: 691 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Jody Commander is spot-on.

    We buy, sell and trade quality guns and scopes!Master Dealer for Kimber, Wilson Combat and Dan Wesson.Visit our website at www.ApaxEnterprises.com
  • thunderboltthunderbolt Member Posts: 6,041 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    G36: When Adam and Eve sinned, it condemned them to die. Sin separated them (and all mankind) from God. A blood sacrifice is the only acceptable atonement for sin. The Bible says in Hebrews chapter
    9 verse 22 "And almost all things are by the law purged with blood;
    and without shedding of blood is no remission." A blood sacrifice was necessary, but animal sacrifice would not do, for the Bible says in Hebrews chapter 10 verse 4 "For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins." A human sacrifice was necessary, but all humans were tainted or blemished with sin and were not worthy of sacrifice. So Jesus came to earth to act as that perfect sacrifice. Because of the virgin birth, he was born sinless and thus became the mediator between man and God.
  • AntiqueDrAntiqueDr Member Posts: 691 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Would it surprise you to know that Hindus have a different take on that?



    We buy, sell and trade quality guns and scopes!Master Dealer for Kimber, Wilson Combat and Dan Wesson.Visit our website at www.ApaxEnterprises.com
  • 96harley96harley Member Posts: 3,992 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    We are God's crowning glory. Unlike the angels who have no free will we are able to choose. I choose to follow God. I believe in his word and like I said in another thread, no questions. By faith I choose to serve him and have confessed my sins and still do on a continuing basis. Forsake not the assembling of yourselves together.....

    The Hindus serve a dead master. Christ arose from the DEAD and was seen by mankind before his assention to meet the father. Did anyone record the Hindu god walk after death? Not that I'm aware of.

    Not all roads lead to God so don't be fooled. False prophets exist today in our churches. When they bend to be POLITICALLY CORRECT to
    gain followers they are false prophets. When they say all roads lead to God, they are false prophets. When they defend abortion and uphold the perverts in high places, they are false prophets. The Bible says in the last days they will exist and that because of Christ all who call themselves Christian will be hated of all men. Look around, read some of these post, Christians are under attack becasue they witness to the TRUTH and a sinful dying world does not want to hear the TRUTH.

    I know because when I took part in all the filth this world had to offer I was miserable and hated it when I heard a preacher or family member call me to the task. Since Christ wrought a miracle and gave me a new heart with a desire for him, can't be silent when anybody talks about my Lord. Talked long enough may God bless everyone on this
    thread and speak to your hearts if you don't know him.
  • sfettysfetty Member Posts: 349 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Well said Harley96.God Bless You. We are a spirit, we live in a body and we have a soul. May your whole Spirit Soul and Body be held blameless until the coming of the Lord.
  • thunderboltthunderbolt Member Posts: 6,041 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    When you are learning to seek God, there are 3 rules that will help keep you on track. When it comes to the 1611 King James Bible:
    1....Take nothing from it.
    2....Add nothing to it.
    3....Change nothing in it.
    These 3 tools will help you avoid false cults that pretend to follow Jesus, but that distort and attempt to alter God's word. For instance, let's examine the Unification Church. This cult teaches that Jesus work on earth was not finished, that he must come again in the flesh to establish a family through marriage to his Bride. They also teach that once the human body is dissolved into dust, it cannot be resurrected. Both these teachings are false according to the Bible. Read John Chapter 19 Verse 30 "When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost." Jesus earthly work was finished. His death paid for our sins. When he returns again, it will be as described in
    1 Thessalonians Chapter 4 verse 16-17 "For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord." Thus, by their own false doctrine that attempts to ADD to the work of Jesus, then trys to TAKE away the truth of resurrection, we see that the Unification church is a false
    church.
  • COONASSCOONASS Member Posts: 2,068 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    It doesn't matter what religion you are, what church you attend or don't attend, how much tithe money you've given, or even how many wonderful deeds you've done since you've been on this earth. None of that is going to get you to heaven or even get you noticed by God. He's not looking for the perfect person, if that were the case, then Jesus Christ never would have had to leave his glory in heaven and come down to this world. He said He didn't come for the saved but for the unsaved. God looks at the heart, because what is in your heart is the way you will talk and act and think. And if in your heart you have not excepted Jesus Christ as your Lord and Saviour, then you are not saved. Only the Holy Spirit can deal with a person's heart and help them to reach this understanding. If you are in doubt as to whether a person is truly saved or just putting on an air with you, then I suggest you read Galations 5:22 about the Fruits of the Spirit. If their lives bear these type of fruits, then you know what they have is real, a person can only pretend for so long, know what I mean. But remember, you're not going to find a perfect person here, only a forgiven person whose doing their best and truly living and not just speaking what they believe. Remember what Jesus said, If any man says he is perfect, he is a liar and the truth is not in him. For those of you that think on your death-bed you'll have time to ask to be forgiven, WILL YOU REALLY? Take it from someone who has come close to death many times. I thank God I am saved because I really don't believe by my experiences I would have had a chance at that moment. The only person I called on at the moment of each of these happenings was the name of JESUS and I believe he pulled me through. I had my foot slip under a running lawn-mower, a truck ran a stop sign and hit me broadside and slammed me into him 5 or 6 times then I spun around into a telephone pole and came to a stop, my doctor left me overnight with my appendix ruptured and didn't take me into surgery until 7:00 the next morning, this occured at 9:00 pm the night before, I was told afterward when I went into ICU for 3 days, I died the 2nd day in there and they brought me back (DID THEY REALLY BRING ME BACK), a large compressor flew out of the back of a truck I was following behind just recently and started flying across the road toward me, I don't care what anyone thinks, each time I called upon the name of Jesus and I know he brought me through this all. It's just something to think about.

    We Live in a World of Give And Take, But A Lot Of People Won't Give What it Takes.
  • Bushy ARBushy AR Member Posts: 564 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Thunderbolt...I understand that when the King James Bible was translated and printed,that some of the Old Testament was not included.Do you know what was left out and why? I do not know myself,but I am curious as to what it is.And I wonder what else was left out down through the years and many translations.Seems to me that the people doing the translations should not have taken such libertys.Or maybe they thought that they knew what was "right" for others.

    Little people talk about people,regular people talk about things,and big people talk about ideas.
  • homer4homer4 Member Posts: 128 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    "I am the Way, the Truth, the Life, no one comes to the Father but by me"
    Either Jesus was a nut, a liar or as he said.
    You decide.

    "...Abby someone""Abby who"..."Abby Normal"
  • thesupermonkeythesupermonkey Member Posts: 3,905 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    "Today God is offering a pardon for SIN, that has been fully paid for by the Lamb of God who taketh away the sin of the world, to every person willing to believe Him.

    To reject such an offer, is likened to a criminal on death row rejecting the Presidents pardon on the day of his execution, where can he turn to in appealing his conviction, after he has rejected the only pardon that can save him?"

    Humans are only on 'Death Row' because god chose to fault all mankind for the sin of one couple. Wow, there's justice eh?

    "The best part is, ANYONE can be saved! Gays, murderers,
    witches, pedophiles, adulterers and even moral people can be saved."

    So what's the purpose of being moral if ANYONE can be saved?

    "Unlike the angels who have no free will we are able to choose."

    Really? So if what you saying is true, Satan didn't CHOOSE evil, he was just created that way. In much the same respect, ALL humans didn't choose to be sinful, but in order to avoid an eternity of torture they have to put faith in an absent god who places them in a corrupt world full of wicked angles he created.

    Ok now I'm really confused...

    "When you are charged with an infraction (breaking of the law), if found guilty, your judgement demands payment, whether incarceration or the paying of a fine in order to satisfy the judgement, upon payment in full, you are again restored fully as a law abiding citizen."

    "When Adam and Eve sinned, it condemned them to die. Sin separated them (and all mankind) from God. A blood sacrifice is the only acceptable atonement for sin. The Bible says in Hebrews chapter
    9 verse 22 "And almost all things are by the law purged with blood;
    and without shedding of blood is no remission." A blood sacrifice was necessary, but animal sacrifice would not do, for the Bible says in Hebrews chapter 10 verse 4 "For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins." A human sacrifice was necessary, but all humans were tainted or blemished with sin and were not worthy of sacrifice. So Jesus came to earth to act as that perfect sacrifice. Because of the virgin birth, he was born sinless and thus became the mediator between man and God. "

    I was under the impression Jesus atoned for the sin spread to man through Adam. So why hasn't mankind been 'restored fully as a law abiding citizen.' (back to perfection)? Apparently Jesus sacrifice doesn't REALLY atone for Adam's sin or we wouldn't still be suffering from the wages of sin now would we? Now comes the sticky part, since Jesus' ransom sacrifice was not atonement for Adam's sin, what was the REAL reason for his sacrifice?



    Don't worry about the bullet with your name on it, worry about the fragmentation grenade addressed 'To Occupant'.
  • thunderboltthunderbolt Member Posts: 6,041 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Why is the world still in the shape it's in? Because, SuperMonkey, the world still rejects Jesus. He has paid the price for sin, but you have to accept Him. It's like a rich man coming into a restarant
    and offering to pay the tab for everyone that brings their bill to him. If you don't run your bill over to his table, don't gripe when you have to pay for it yourself. No man is born innocent. We are
    all born with a sin nature passed down from Adam & Eve. Jesus is the only means of cleansing our sin. Accepting Jesus as your Savior
    means losing the world, but gaining eternal life with Him. It is mankind's choice to accept or reject Jesus, but all will give account of their actions. Matthew Chapter 12 verse 36-37: "But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgement. For by thy words thou shalt
    be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned."
    Romans Chapter 14 verse 12: "So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God."
  • 96harley96harley Member Posts: 3,992 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Thunderbolt, AMEN!
    Supermonkey, Stay with it, you're on the right track. When you read your Bible let God speak to your heart through it. For a lot of people read the Bible and miss it's message completely. Stalin read it but didn't apply it. Think of how things could have been if he would have applied it to his life.
  • anderskandersk Member Posts: 3,627 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Great posting thunderbolt. Please let me add my AMEN.

    I am truly amazed that God loves me and adopted me into his family forEVER ... but the obvious reason is clear ... grace ... AMAZING GRACE! It sure was nothing that I deserved.

    As to Bible translations ... I used to be a big fan of the King James translation. You know ... "If it was good enough for Paul and the disciples, it is good enough for me!" It was the best translation for MANY years,

    But then I grew up a bit and realized that there has been much work down since 1611 ... and some earlier manuscripts (ie. closer to the original texts) have become available more recently and most recently are the "Dead Sea Scrolls."

    This is just my personal opinion, but I think that sticking with the KJ version today tends to further the error that Christianity is no longer worth looking into ... since people look into the "source book" and conclude that the message must be as out dated as the words and gramatical construction in the Bible.

    And I know from years of experience that in many (not all, but many that I've been in or heard) churches that are "KJ only churches", a good part of the sermons are just an explanation of what the KJV is trying to say. Why not use something that is more easily read and move on to helping the people learn what is being said in its historical/geological context, and then help us see how the Holy Spirit would want us to apply it to our lives today.

    The New King James Version came out not too long ago to try to help make it more readable (acknowledging there is a problem with using the KJV today). But the KJV only crowd is NOT buying into that either!

    A friend of mine once said (in the context of a discussion of why there are so many newer translations and paraphrases - especially in English!) what we need is one MORE translation ... the translation from the page to the heart! AMEN To that!

    May God bless y'al real good!

    Ken
  • NighthawkNighthawk Member Posts: 12,022 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Im sorry but I cant help but comment here, some of you guys are scareing me.If you ever truly have Christ in your heart you will know it.This started out harmless,and I know here is not the place to discuss Religion but I sure dont want to wait until my death bed to accept Jesus we can be taken out of this world in the blink of an eye.I think thunderbolt was just doing what he felt obligated to do at the time.He did warn no one had to read it.

    Rugster
  • Bushy ARBushy AR Member Posts: 564 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    With all the Bible scholars who are writing very good posts with many good points,I was hoping someone would answer my question as to what King James left out of his version and why.Was it because he did not concider "the masses" worthy,or smart enough,or what? I find the Bible to be a good source of inspiration and history.It's historical value is just now being proven by many researchers today.I have been told by several people that some things were lost in translation,and some things simply left out entirely.What was the reason for this?

    Little people talk about people,regular people talk about things,and big people talk about ideas.
  • thunderboltthunderbolt Member Posts: 6,041 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I can't begin typing fast enough to provide a good background of the
    battles over the various versions of the Bible. There's simply too much information to cover in a few paragraphs. There's a good book on the subject that interested folks should look into: "Final
    Authority" by William Grady. It should be available in any Christian bookstore. Also, "The NIV Infection" by Pastor Dewey Williams gives side by side comparisons of the 1611 King James version to the NIV version. He gives easily understood references to the true Bible versus the fakes that have arrived lately. When viewed in this manner, it quickly becomes apparent that the NIV frequently removes references to Jesus, God and Lord. Interested parties may contact Pastor Williams at: 619 Wagner Road, Bristol, VA 24201 or call 1-703-669-4023. One of the great deceptions of the NIV is to delete references to hell. According to Williams, in the NIV "hell" is changed to "death" 6 times, to "the grave" 22 times, to "the depths"
    3 times and to "hades" 5 times. Apparently someone doesn't want people to be warned of the dangers of hell!
  • Bushy ARBushy AR Member Posts: 564 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I did not think I would get an answer from you. My suspicion that you are a "one dimentional" person is apparently correct.Shame that you limit yourself that way.This world offers much to people who are willing to broaden their horizons.Oh well,maybe someone else can answer my question one day.

    Little people talk about people,regular people talk about things,and big people talk about ideas.
  • anderskandersk Member Posts: 3,627 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Again I find myself continuing a discussion that is probably not worth the time ... King James only people are very hard nosed. But there is always hope - just look at me I used to be one of them! I just ask ... could it be that the New International Version and the New American Version are right and the KJV translation is wrong /less accurate to what was originally said and/or written?

    To the question: "What did the King James Version" leave out of the Bible?" Probably nothing. Nothing ... unless you consider the Apocrypha part of the Bible. Most Roman Catholics do include it, but even they note that it is in a separate category in terms of its divine inspiration.

    The first council of the Church that dealt with the question of Biblical cannon (what should really be in the Bible? And what writings do we have that are not inspired by God?) chose not to include the Apocrypha. A later council of the Church decide to re-include it, but clearly noted that it does have some questions about its inspiration.

    God bless! Wise men still seek Him!

    Ken
  • thunderboltthunderbolt Member Posts: 6,041 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Bushy, you get in a terrible rush to call names without checking facts. I quoted 2 books for you to read to bring you up to speed on the 1611 King James Version versus the false bibles. I cannot condense 2 books into 2 paragraphs that would do more than confuse you. Get the books, read them, then ask me anything you like and I'll
    do my best to answer. By the way, did you ever figure out who you
    worship? You seem ashamed to mention a name.
  • kgnovumkgnovum Member Posts: 594 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    The ones who think that they have a relationship with "their own God" are ones who cannot accept anything but themselves. It is "rationalization" at its best. It is "easy" to form your own God and make your own rules to suit yourself or your own lifestyle. This is for the weak and feeble hearted who cannot accept God's rules or any others. It is very tough to accept God's Word, but the ultimate rewards are great. If I made my own rules, it would be so easy and a coast to the finish line - but when I crossed it - the end would be there. KG
  • TazmuttTazmutt Member Posts: 862 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Im a firm believer of Frisbeetarianism ..... The belief that when you die, your soul goes up on the roof and gets stuck !
  • Bushy ARBushy AR Member Posts: 564 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Thunderbolt...I apologise about calling you "one dimentional" but that is the result of you not answering my question.Yes,you have provided information regarding the King James version,but I was not attacking your choice, I was asking about what it did or did not contain.Andersk answered some of my question,and thank you.However,in responce to your question to me,I worship the same God Adam did.That is to say,without written "Word". I believe there is a God that created this universe,and still exists today.I believe He/She to be part of all living things,no matter if they worship God or not.I also believe God to be present even if "two or more are gathered" or not. I pray everyday but do not ask for anything more than He/She has already provided.I give thanks,not request anything.I see God in the wonder of nature and the order of life. If someone wants me to attend their church,I say thanks but no thanks.I see far too much hypocracy and two-facedness there for me to be comfortable.If you want to know more about the way I feel,try Deism.org and read about it,please! And in responce to kgnovum,you should also visit the Deism.org site and discover what free thought and reason meant to some of our founding fathers.They also did not just settle for someone elses version of God.They found THEIR OWN and were quite happy with their own interpritation.As for being "weak-minded" because they did not accept SOMEONE ELSES OPINION, I find the opposite to be true.Being able to think for oneself and not blindly FOLLOW is one heck of alot smarter to me. I choose to not be a sheep! Is that clear enough for you? Freedom of choice is a wonderful thing ,don't you think? Or do you settle for something because someone told you it was what you should do? I guess it's the rebel in me,but I love to question authority no matter what the source.And if you all think that will cause me to go to Hell faster than a liberal turd in a Texas toilet,I have already been there and thanks to Bill W. will not have to go back!

    Little people talk about people,regular people talk about things,and big people talk about ideas.
  • 223believer223believer Member Posts: 128 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I believe in bourbon, and I believe I'll have another.
  • kgnovumkgnovum Member Posts: 594 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    223believer - believe I'm gonna join ya! KG
  • CAndres35CAndres35 Member Posts: 453 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Again i doubt that this will do any good or change any minds. seems that the fine people posting have there minds pretty well made up and are not realy willing to consider another oint of view,however; I was not a confirmed believer for many years[to age 23] and had a hard life coming from the wrong side of the track so to speak. my parents were poor in financial regard.i wasnt able to go "out" very often and started to work at age eleven.finaly went into the military and was very unhappy,very lonely,was really very tired of fighting for a life that was even satisfactory. I had studied about JESUS new who and what he was supposed to be but like some of you on this post i just could not accept that somthing i coudnt see,touch, feel,or hear could make my life better.my situation stayed the same and i attempted to end my life,but for some reason i coudnt seem to do that succesfully either. i finally gave up trying to fight it and prayed and told jesus in prayer that i would give him this earthly life to control and do what ever he wanted me to do. scince that time my life has been blessed. i am able to love other people as well as myself. i have a wonderful son and stepson,five lovly grandchildren and all in all a pretty good life.
    as for as the person posting that it sound like we are lonly etc it isnt this at all. we would just like to share our joy and salvation with those that dont know the joy and happines of knowing the lord with others less fortunate.
    I HOPE YOU ALL WILL CONSIDER JESUS INVITATION TO JOIN HIM!!!!!
  • thunderboltthunderbolt Member Posts: 6,041 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Bushy: Thanks for sharing. Apology accepted. Now lets take this one step further. If you do not believe in the written word, how do you know you worship the same god Adam worshipped?
  • anderskandersk Member Posts: 3,627 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I'm kind of sorry and happy at the same time to point this out ... Roman Catholics all over the world who are reading from the Bible passages as indicated in the lectionary have read the Lord's Prayer (ie. the prayer that Jesus taught his disciples ... did he teach it as a model of prayer? or as a prayer to be prayed word for word? I'll let you decide: yes, no or both. I go for both, but have no problems with people who choose any of these options.).

    It is recorded in Matthew 6:9-13 or to see it in the context of the discussion on prayer, you might want to read the whole chapter or at least verse 1 to 15.

    In the New International Version the phrase at the end of the prayer (For Thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, forever. AMEN) is NOT included, but there is a footnote saying that "it is NOT in the earlier manuscripts." In all likelihood it was probably added later on by a monk faithfully recopying the gospel and he thought it would be a fitting conclusion to the prayer. Most Christians would probably agree with that and in fact pray it regularly. (Keep in mind that this was before photocopiers and printing presses.)

    In the New American Standard this phrase IS INCLUDED but within brackets with a note that says "This clause was omitted in the earliest manuscripts." (ie. it was not there in the earlier manuscripts which are NOW available.)

    In most all Bibles that are considered Roman Catholic translations this phrase is NOT included. Let's take the New Revised Standard Version as an example. The phrase is NOT included in the text, but there is a footnote saying "Other ancient authorities add in some form "For the kingdom and the power and the glory are yours forever. Amen"

    It is interesting to note in Roman Catholic circles that when this prayer is used, the concluding phrase "For the kingdom and the power and the glory are yours forever. Amen" is NEVER used WITH the rest of the prayer. Some other things are included and then this phrase is used in conclusion ... then some more words and then the "Amen."

    In case you do not have your 1611 King James Version right handy ... the concluding phrase ("For the kingdom and the power and the glory are yours forever. Amen") is used without note or comment.

    Who is right? Probably the Roman Catholics ... and some would say, "it was THEIR Monk who added it." Shame on him! But since it was well before what is now known as "The Reformation," it really was our monk.

    Which is the most faithful and accurate translation to what was originally said? I'll encourage you to decide. Probably, I would put them in this order: NIV Bible , NAS Bible and the New RSV Bible ... then on down the line, the KJV. They are all Bible ... take your pick ... use it and ask the Holy Spirit for wisdom, strength and courage to apply it in our lives today.

    Does it matter all that much? Well, to some it might be important, but I really do not think so!

    Could I conclude by encouraging us all to just Keep on Praying! God will hear and answer in a way that will bring glory to his name and good to his people.

    And with that, I promise to say no more on this subject ... and they all said AMEN!

    Ken
  • thunderboltthunderbolt Member Posts: 6,041 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    The NIV is a corrupted bible. Look at Acts Chapter 8 verses 36-37 in the 1611 King James: "And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized? And Phillip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God." Now look at how the NIV
    "translates" these verses: "As they traveled along the road, they came to some water and the eunuch said, "Look, here is water. Why
    shouldn't I be baptized?" The NIV is not a better translation, it clearly trys to remove a reference to Jesus Christ as the Son of God.
    Look at Mark Chapter 6 verse 11 in the 1611 King James: "And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear you, when ye depart thence,
    shake off the dust under your feet for a testimony against them. Verily I say unto you, it shall be more tolerable for Sodom and Gomorrah in the day of judgement, than for that city." Now read the NIV account: "And if any place will not welcome you or listen to you, shake offf the dust of your feet when you leave, as a testimony against them." Not only did the NIV have trouble with translating Sodom and Gomorrah (simple names of cities)but also completely fail
    to mention the day of judgement. If the NIV avoids mention
    that Jesus is the Son of God, or that the day of judgement is coming
    then it is a false bible. The 1611 King James says in 1 John chapter 4 verse 1-3: "Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. Hereby know ye the spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world." Beware false bibles, false religions and false teachers!
  • thunderboltthunderbolt Member Posts: 6,041 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    If you died the moment you read this post would you be ready to face God? You cannot reject God's call every day of your life and expect to get saved seconds before you die. It can happen, but you can't count on it. Continue rejecting God now and it is likely you'll keep rejecting Him until you die. One of the saddest sights I've witnessed was two Christian daughters pleading with their dying father to get saved. The man was sick and weak, but unrepentant. In the last seconds of his life, he was unable or unwilling to speak, but was alert. His eyes were fearful to behold. The women wept by his bedside as eternity unfolded and begged him to pray to God. Instead, remaining silent, he turned away from them and died. If he truly died unsaved, he burns in hell today, has burned there some 5 years and will burn for all eternity. Don't let that happen to you! Call on Jesus before it is too late!
  • anderskandersk Member Posts: 3,627 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I agree ... call on the Lord Jesus Christ right now. He save for eternity. Faith is not a blind leap off the end of the pier ... biblical faith is a response to the truth. So a person may need to investigate a bit before responding to the Lord. But please do respond ... sooner rather than later!

    I said (actually, I promised) I would say no more, but I could not keep from setting the record straight. My dear Brother thunderbolt, the VERY passage you mention in Acts 8:37 is one more example of what I have already said ... this verse was not in the earlier manuscripts. Therefore it must have been added by some well meaning person later on. It was not written by Luke or we would find it in the earlier manuscripts.

    I'm not saying it is wrong, but it was not written by the recognized author, Dr. Luke. The earlier manuscripts were not available in 1611 so they (the King James translators)did not know better. Now we do, or should I say some of us do! But let me encourage you (actually, all of us) to keep reading, studying and applying the Bible in our lives ... that's what I believe the Lord would have us all do! God bless y'al real good!

    And this time I am going to keep my promise! (I'm not sure why you would believe me after not being faithful last time ... pray for me ... I need it!)

    Ken
  • 96harley96harley Member Posts: 3,992 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I had an NIV given to me and I have read it. My wife and daughters have the King James. I find myself leaning toward the KJ even though the way it's communicated might remind one of Shakespear due to the fact that's the manner in which they spoke when the KJ was translated.
    I would encourage a new Christian to go with the KJ. I am drifting back to it but if all that's available is the NIV for whatever reason, read it. When you read it asked God to help you with it. He will open up a whole new world through scripture.
  • thunderboltthunderbolt Member Posts: 6,041 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    The 1611 King James was translated from the Received text. The NIV is based on the Codex Sinaiticus and the Codex Vaticanus. Understand that the majority of the old manuscripts agree, only a few Greek manuscripts support the NIV. The NIV was written by Westcott and Hort. Wescott was involved in the modern channeling movement (talking to spirits) which is strictly forbidden in the Bible. Hort was a liberal and a New Ager. The lives these men led would disqualify them to be church deacons. They were in no way spiritually qualified to rewrite the Bible.
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