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Thunderbolt...yes,it is the same God my parents worshiped! Why must my belief in "One Suprime Being" always include Jesus,or Mohammed,Bhudda,or Krishna,or whoever people like you deem necessary? Is it manditory to always include the messenger with the message? I do not feel that way and no amount of "Holy Book" quoting from any of the afore mentioned religion's followers is going to change my mind.Sorry if that disappoints you or any of the other "sect followers".What did you think of my mention of the Primitive Baptist sect with it's handling of poisonous snakes during services? Is that something you might try?Afterall,it is a demonstration of their faith,isn't it? I sure wouldn't,because I don't think a snake really cares how much faith a person has when they bite them.
Little people talk about people,regular people talk about things,and big people talk about ideas.
Joe: I'm not angry, the more discussion and participants the better!
All religions, all cults, I want to talk to everyone!!!By the way, the 1611 King James version sounds so much better than the NIV. Watering down the 1611 King James to the NIV version loses so much beauty as well as meaning, much like Shakespeare and Cliff's
Notes. In other words, if you only read Cliff's Notes, you have not read Shakespeare. If you only read the NIV, you are not reading the
1611 King James Bible.
James 1:19-27: "Wherefore, my beloved brethren, let every man be swift to hear, slow to speak, slow to wrath: For the wrath of man worketh not the righteousness of God. Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls. But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves. For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass: For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was. But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed. If any man among you seem to be religious, and bridleth not his tongue, but deceiveth his own heart, this man's religion is vain. Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world."
So quit calling names, stand up for Jesus and spread the word to the lost, Jesus saves!
For all you Christians out there, do we agree on this?
1. There is one God, Jehovah.
2. His only begotten Son is Jesus Christ.
3. Jesus is the only means of salvation. There is no other way to be saved.
How about it, Christians? Can we agree on this much?
For all you Christians out there, do we agree on this?
1. There is one God, Jehovah.
2. His only begotten Son is Jesus Christ.
3. Jesus is the only means of salvation. There is no other way to be saved.
How about it, Christians? Can we agree on this much?
Thunderbolt...do you ever read anything other than a bible? Try reading about Deism at whatever web site or dictionary you choose.I have suggested that repeatedly without result apparently. Yes,I do believe there once was a man called Jesus.I also can imagine that there were men called Mohummad,Bhudda, and Krishna.However,I believe that they were messengers of God's word,nothing more.There have been many people who claimed to have a direct link to God.That does not mean that I should believe any of the writings about them.There are also men and women today who claim to have that "special connection".Unfortunately most of them think that me sending them money will help remove my "problems".What a crock of crap that is.And most of them,from what I have seen,study the KJV.If anything,they prey upon the weak and easily fooled members of the public. I prefer to come to my own conclusions as to how God would like me to live.I do not need anyone to "correct my ignorance".Oh well,this is becoming futile and boring.Please accept my advice and read about other beliefs without pre-judging and dismissing them as unfounded.When people do that,it only demonstrates prejudice and intolerance.And as I am sure you know,those are two of the things Jesus was said to be against.
Little people talk about people,regular people talk about things,and big people talk about ideas.
Uh...Thunderbolt...You talk about my knowledge of Greek in refering to the passage from Isaiah. I thought a bible scholar like you would know that Isaiah wasn't written originally in greek. The oldest copy we have of Isaiah, found in Qumran in 1949, is in Hebrew. So, no, you can't translate Isaiah from greek if it is in Hebrew. And Hebrew is not an emotional language at all. Very hard, very concrete in thinking. Very, very few "emotional" words at all. And to make all translation that much harder, both NT and OT are in dialects of their particular language that aren't spoken any more. I have been to Greece, and can make myself understood when speaking classical greek, but it is kind of a "pigeon" talk to them. Hebrew, I cannot speak, but can read. Reading is always easier. I am working on it though! And yes, I can agree with the points you made, except I like the Hebrew word for God...YAWEH. Translated...Jehovah. Just picking at ya!
The Aramaic writings are older than the Greek. We rely on the Greek when they happen to be the oldest translations of certain documents available, not because they are the best or even the most accurate. They probably aren't, but they do survive, which is their best virtue.
I don't believe in the old man with a white beard; I do believe that a historical man named Jesus lived when they said he did, and taught in the places they describe. Too bad God didn't have the foresight to have him born into a time when there were at least tape recorders available for transcription. My library includes many translations of the Bible, as well as other books, including the Apocryphal books and the so-called "lost books" among many others. I believe I have a Koran or two, but don't have much interest in that other than as a reference volume, like a good dictionary, in case of need. I may even have a Book of Mormon, which I also have never been moved to read. I believe I even have a copy of "Dianetics," but I purposely bought the cheapest used paperback copy I could find because I wouldn't pay more than a quarter to stock my reference library with that work of fiction.
- Life NRA Member
"If cowardly & dishonorable men shoot unarmed men with army guns, the evil must be prevented by the penitentiary...and not by general deprivation of constitutional privilege." - Arkansas Supreme Court, 1878
bhayes: How about ben boquer? Ha, ha. You're in a better mood, anyway! My point remains, "morning star" is a title for Jesus Christ
and "son of the morning" refers to Satan. Anyone trying to do a true translation should have done a better job. By the way, what's the sermon topic for Sunday?
offeror: At least you saved money on the science fiction and fairy
tales (assuming the Mormon book was free?). If you want a good laugh, continue research on L. Ron Hubbard and Dianetics. Convicts from space!!! Free advice, never pay to see a movie made from one of his books. He is a lousy writer.
BushyAR: I like to hear of one's personal experiences. Thanks for sharing. Could you tell us a little more?
John 14:6-7: "Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life; no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him."
I have no more interest in seeing the L. Ron Hubbard junk than I do the Left Behind junk. Rapture, Schmapture. I feel sorry for them as I do the Kool-Aid drinkers down in Central America and those who died in the mansion in Southern California hoping to board the spaceship in the comet's tail.
As for the Mormons, there is yet another very good example of just how convinced people can be even when they may be dead wrong. They'll even come to your door and hound you with misinformation. You might want to keep that in mind too. The "convinced" are always the last to know they've been obsessed with things that are not necessarily so. Scholars try to keep just a tad of objectivity, room for "more to be revealed." It's a good thing, not a weakness.
- Life NRA Member
"If cowardly & dishonorable men shoot unarmed men with army guns, the evil must be prevented by the penitentiary...and not by general deprivation of constitutional privilege." - Arkansas Supreme Court, 1878
The Left Behind series is flawed. It leads people to think that they can get saved after the Rapture. While this is the time for the Jewish branch to be restored, the rest of the world will be under strong delusion and will be damned to hell and the lake of fire. See
2 Thessalonians chapter 2 verses 11-12: "And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness." This is not Satan deceiving the world, but God himself sending delusion to all those who rejected Jesus Christ. God wants everyone to be saved, but there is a time coming when you will not be able to get saved.
In the immortal words of Ralph Kramden, "Hamena, hamena, hamena."
- Life NRA Member
"If cowardly & dishonorable men shoot unarmed men with army guns, the evil must be prevented by the penitentiary...and not by general deprivation of constitutional privilege." - Arkansas Supreme Court, 1878
Thunderbolt, sermon from Sunday was based on 1 Peter 2:21-25. Topic was following Jesus. Basically it was a "book report" on the book "In His Steps". That is the Scripture that so moved the fictional pastor Henry Maxwell and his congregation in that classic story. Ever read that one? Great book, and I highly recommend it.
tbolt I think your kind is part of the problem so many have with religion today, I believe in God & have been saved, however that doesnt make me think I can go around telling everyone one it is my way or hell. but alot like bushy I seem to just be a simple person who doesnt just follow blindly everything some preacher says, I figure some things I can learn on my own. it seems to me too many pastors are trying to put there beliefs on others whether or not they can back it up with bible verses. you know you have them when you ask them to show you were it says so & so is wrong & they say it just is. so my prob doesnt fall on god it falls on the too many churches & pators who think they are the only ones that are right. just like with the different denominations talking about what the others do wrong, as for my self I am around alot of baptist & have heard them put down alot of other demoninations & how they are wrong but yet they were one of the last denoms to form, of all the major ones. well this is just my humble opinion with no facts from some book to back up what I say, just saying what I see.
bhayes: I haven't read that book, but the Bible passages chosen are great. Especially 1 Peter 2:24: "Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed."
blaze: Compare what the pastor says to the 1611 King James Bible.
If his words disagree with the teachings of the Bible, find another
pastor. For instance, if someone says that eating meat or being married is wrong or forbidden simply refer to 1 Timothy chapter 4 verse 1-5: "Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron; Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth. For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving: For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer." If you dig deep enough you can find answers in the
1611 King James to life's problems. The trouble is, most people
think they can do anything because the Bible doesn't state in specicic terms that it is wrong. A Bible that listed every sin by category would be quite long indeed. While the Bible doesn't say
you can't steal your neighbor's motorcycle, it does say in Exodus chapter 20 verse 15: "Thou shalt not steal." There are many denominations and some disagee on minor points. There are also
denominations that teach doctrines that are in direct opposition of what the Bible says. Read your Bible and seek out a church that
adheres strictly to it. Church policy should never be based on anything but the Bible. When you find a good church, expect to find
hypocrites there as well. The devil sends them there to sow dissention, distrust and to discourage you. Ignore them and follow
Christ.
greetins, reply to bushy ar, there were several writings not included in the canon of scripture, most fall into two major groups the aphochgrapha ( writings of unknown origin[literal trans secret writings]) and psuedopigraphal (literal trans false writings), there are others such as undocumented text (text in some manuscripts and not in more ancient). the aphoch. are some of the oldest writings and are generally considered good history. but inspiration and athorship is in question. the psuedopigs. where writen durring the inter testament period between malicai and the gospells. a time when there were no prophets. hense the sceptic view of their inspiration. respt submitted dads-freehold a fronte praecipitium a tergo lupi
greetings, this is a reply to bushy ar , there are several writings not included in the canon of scripture, most fall into two groups the apochgrapha (literal; secret writings) usually considered good history but unknown authorship or containing questionable doctrine and unknown inspiration. the other group is called the pseudopigraphal( lit. false writ) these are inter testament writings of unknown authorship durring a period of no prophrts, hense the sceptic view of their inspiration. there are others that lack documentation such as a text that apears in some manuscripts but not in the most ancient. respt submitted dads-freehold a fronte praecipitium a tergo lupi
greetings, this is a reply to bushy ar , there are several writings not included in the canon of scripture, most fall into two groups the apochgrapha (literal; secret writings) usually considered good history but unknown authorship or containing questionable doctrine and unknown inspiration. the other group is called the pseudopigraphal( lit. false writ) these are inter testament writings of unknown authorship durring a period of no prophrts, hense the sceptic view of their inspiration. there are others that lack documentation such as a text that apears in some manuscripts but not in the most ancient. respt submitted dads-freehold a fronte praecipitium a tergo lupi
greetings, this is a reply to bushy ar , there are several writings not included in the canon of scripture, most fall into two groups the apochgrapha (literal; secret writings) usually considered good history but unknown authorship or containing questionable doctrine and unknown inspiration. the other group is called the pseudopigraphal( lit. false writ) these are inter testament writings of unknown authorship durring a period of no prophrts, hense the sceptic view of their inspiration. there are others that lack documentation such as a text that apears in some manuscripts but not in the most ancient. respt submitted dads-freehold a fronte praecipitium a tergo lupi
Greetings all! Tomorrow is the 4th of July, so here's a sampling of some religious material from one of the founders of the USA!
A Prayer from George Washington's personal prayer book: "Almighty God, and most merciful Father, who didst command the children of Israel to offer a daily sacrifice to Thee, that thereby they might glorify and praise Thee for Thy protection both night and day; receive, O Lord, my morning sacrifice which I now offer up to Thee....I beseech Thee, my sins, remove them from Thy presence, as far as the east is from the west, and accept of me for the merits of Thy Son, Jesus Christ, that when I come into Thy temple, and compass Thine altar, my prayers may come before Thee as incense; and as Thou wouldst hear me calling upon Thee in my prayers, so give me grace to hear Thee calling on me in Thy word, that it may be wisdom, righteousness, reconciliation and peace to the saving of my soul in the day of the Lord Jesus."
"The General hopes and trusts , that every officer and man, will endeavor so to live, and act, as becomes a Christian Soldier defending
the dearest Rights and Liberties of his country." George Washington
"We have forgotten God. We have forgotten the gracious hand which preserved us in peace and enriched and strengthened us; and we have vainly imagined that all things were produced by some superior wisdom and virtue of our own. Intoxicated with unbroken success, we have become too self-sufficient to feel the necessity of redeeming and preserving grace, too proud to pray to the God who made us." Abraham
Lincoln
- Life NRA Member
"If cowardly & dishonorable men shoot unarmed men with army guns, the evil must be prevented by the penitentiary...and not by general deprivation of constitutional privilege." - Arkansas Supreme Court, 1878
Top of the morning to all my friends at GunBroker.com,
I just got back from the hospital today, and right now I'm having a bit of trouble sleeping. (Generally I never use the computer at night, but I was too curious as to what has been said this past week on this discussion thread. Also, I wanted to check on the "Annie" on the auction block!) Last Friday I was in major pain and entered the Emergency Room on Saturday. Bottom line: a blood clot in the lung. Looks like I get t "enjoy" all of the possible complications from my knee replacement!
I'd like to make just a few comments (probably a few too many ... from a guy who has said he would say no more!) I really want to thank to folks who are standing up to thunderbolt's wrangling and hassling. The sad part is that he is probably not really listening, AND he thinks he is helping the cause of Christ!
bhayes420, in your 6/29 posting you really brought some light into the discussion, but tbolt just rattles on "my point remains" ... blah, blah ... blah.
Now we hear from George Washington's personal prayer book ... no thanks, tbolt, I like Jesus' prayer a whole lot better! And then we hear from Abe Lincoln. (I think tbolt could be name dropping. Well, I guess that is patriotic which is OK since it is the 4th of July) But I agree with the last posting - speak for yourself, Abe!
I may ramble on a bit , but I am going to separate my responses ... hoping that some one might read them.
I would like to respond to a couple older postings (I have been in the hospital for a week) ... get this: I do agree with tbolt on his three points that Christians on the board were asked to respond to. (One God, Jesus is God's only Son and Jesus Christ is the only way.) Man, I find it hard to agree, but the Bible does say these things!
And I agree that the "Left Behind" series is flawed, seriously flawed. Mind you, no one has said that it is the Bible, but, yes, it could lead readers (and readers of Time mag) to think there will be a second chance. Again the Bible makes it clear that after we die there will judgment ... but the good news is that God has worked (and is working) harder to save us than to condemn us. But he does not force us into the kingdom, he leaves the choice up to us because of love for us he did not make us robots ... he wants us to choose to love him - for our own good! The interet in these "Left Behind" books does show that people are hungry! As Pascal said there is within every man a God shaped vacuum that only God can fill. Oh, why do we try to cram all kinds of stuff into it? I'm working on how to tap into this "Left Behind" interest to help people understand and respond to the Good News so we will NOT be left behind! I'm not so sure that fear is the best way to go.
While in the hospital God gave me a wonderful opportunity to connect with a fellow who may not make it a whole lot longer. We really got to consider THE message of hope and God's grace. Which translation did not even come into the conversations. There are important soul issues that men face when life may end soon ... I keep wondering, why wait? What a joy it is to be getting to walk with the Lord right now. As they say, "Know Christ and you know peace ... no Christ and no peace. I think somebody said that, if not ... I just did! Anyway, God really blessed that time ... kind of makes a week in the hospital worth it.
(Oh, yes, I forgot to mention about George Washington's prayer ... at least he did pray in King James English ... of course he was closer to 1611! I guess that makes it a good prayer in the minds of some! Do you suppose that St. Paul prayed in King James English? At least he wrote in it! Well, OK, it IS getting late. But, did you ever wonder, just how did the Church ever make it to the 17th century without the KJV?)
Oh, yes I just thought of one more thing. To the dear folks who like the King James Version (especially the 1611KJV) because it sounds better. It may sound better to you because you grew up on it, your folks used it, their folks used it ,etc etc etc ... right back to King James.
To the average man on the street today it just sounds outdated! I did not say "everybody" ... just the average guy. Take my word for it ... no, don't take my word for it. Check it out! Go to your friendly neighbourhood gunshop and ask for a brick of 22's in King James English ... let me know what happens!
OK, if you think that is THE way the Bible should SOUND, be my guest, but don't try to cram it down everyone else's throat.
And to the 1611 King-James-only crowd (or to however many/few or you there are) I love ya, but please give it a rest. The "its the best translation" arguments are not very well founded. OK, they are balony!
If you stood on the street and started sounding like Shakespear, people would just think you were wierd and/or out of date or maybe they might love it since they are big Shakespear fans. One of our sons was in Shakespear's Mid-summer Night's Dream a while back, and I'll have to admit that I kind of liked it. (Big statement for an Engineer! And I fear that I am not even spelling his name right ... I did say I was an Engineer!) but I'm glad that he does not speak like that when ordering a hamburger! or sharing his faith in the Lord!
Welcome back Ken. Washington's prayer was included because others indicated he didn't believe in Jesus, only an unnamed Supreme Being. Lincoln's speech seemed appropriate for the occasion. Sorry
about the blood clot. Ambulate, ambulate, ambulate! You're right, the Left Behind series does generate a lot of interest. Unfortunately, just in the series itself. Many people are satisfied getting their "bible" information anywhere but the Bible. If you think the NIV is a better translation than the 1611 King James Version, please explain why the NIV calls Satan "morning star" a title belonging to Jesus Christ.
Morning Thunderbolt...I respect your decision to read the KJ. No problem from me on that. I am glad when anyone reads a bible, be it KJ, NIV, NASV, New American, New English, NKJ...whatever. BUT some people like other things than the KJ. Why not quit harping on what YOU feel are the bad versions, and let a sleeping dog lie? If I like NIV and NASV, that is my business and between God and I. YOu can't convert anyone shouting to them that they are wrong on something like that. The NIV is a decent translation. The KJ is a decent translation. But there are better translations out there that are better (more historically accurate) than either one of them. As long as a particular version speaks to a particular person, I am not going to argue with them. God bless you.
thunderbolt- What do you know about the NIV, that is, what manuscripts were used to translate it into English. What was the purpose behind the translation? Do you happen to know any of the men that were involved in the translation, that is, were they flunkies or scholars? Lastly, do you know the principles of hermeneutics?
thunderbolt- What do you know about the NIV, that is, what manuscripts were used to translate it into English. What was the purpose behind the translation? Do you happen to know any of the men that were involved in the translation, that is, were they flunkies or scholars? Lastly, do you know the principles of hermeneutics?
thunderbolt- What do you know about the NIV, that is, what manuscripts were used to translate it into English. What was the purpose behind the translation? Do you happen to know any of the men that were involved in the translation, that is, were they flunkies or scholars? Lastly, do you know the principles of hermeneutics?
thunderbolt- What do you know about the NIV, that is, what manuscripts were used to translate it into English. What was the purpose behind the translation? Do you happen to know any of the men that were involved in the translation, that is, were they flunkies or scholars? Lastly, do you know the principles of hermeneutics?
Hermaneutics: The science of interpretation. No, I did not know the NIV translators personally, did you? The NIV is a corrupt text based on the Codex Sinaiticus and Codex Vaticanus. If you fellows don't want to discuss the NIV, why do you keep bringing it up?
1611 King James 1 Timothy 3:16 "And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory." This verse clearly shows that Jesus is God. The NIV seeks to destroy this clear connection by changing "God" to "He". This is not a better translation, it is
a change in meaning.
Psalms 12:6-7 "The words of the Lord are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times. Thou shalt keep them,
O Lord, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever." These verses deal with preserving God's words and protecting them from this generation. The NIV completely changes the meaning of this verse by changing "them" (a reference to God's words) to "us". These
verses deal with preserving God's words, not us!
The NIV is full of subtile errors and mistakes such as this. Just as
Satan denied the word of God to Eve in the Garden of Eden and misquoted scripture during the temptation of Christ, the NIV attempts to dilute and destroy God's word. Look up these verses in a 1611
King James and compare them to the NIV. How can you explain such errors by scholars unless they were deliberate?
thunderbolt-I asked you if you knew the principles of hermeneutics not the definition of hermeneutics. What was the reason for the NIV translation, you never answered that. Please, give us the background history and educational makeup of the two men [I forgot their names] you point to in earlier posts that have all the correct answers about the NIV. You don't have to repeat your opinion on the NIV. I think we understand your position.
Dear joe4348, I'd suggest you be careful in asking for info on the "two me that wrote the NIV" ... the answer could be really irrelevant as well as being pure baloney. The translation was done by many people. Look at the info at the beginning and you will get the real scoop. But what translation you use is NOT the real question or the b-i-g issue! Just use it!
And speaking of the real question ... I just finished reading the articles in the July 1 Time magazine about the "Left Behind Series."
I thought that it was neat that the Time Mag interviewer (Andrea Sachs) had some pretty good things to say about Tim LaHaye. She wrote: "He does not bluster like Jerry Falwell or Jesse Jackson. If he's having an argument - something that happens a lot when you fight for a single political and religious viewpoint all your life - LaHaye doesn't get louder; he gets softer. He leans back and takes a full minute to consider your point. And in the end he is always interested in what for him is the only real question on the table: Do you have a personal relationship with Christ? Would you like to?"
While I am not a big fan of these "Left Behind" books because it sure seems to give the idea that all will have a second chance, which is not biblical (in any translation!).
I sure do like his assessment of the "only real question on the table." And I sure wish that the people I've talked with about reading the series would be asking and answering this question AND that they would be motivated to ask others as well.
andersk-I appreciate your response but please re-read my post. I did not say "two men that wrote the NIV." I ask for a "background history & educational makeup of the two men [I forgot their names] you point to in earlier posts that have all the correct answers (sarcasm) about the NIV". I went back and checked and those to men tbolt listed are William Grady who wrote, "Final Authority" and Dewey Williams who wrote "The NIV Infection."
Also I would disagree with your view that people get a second chance in the "Left Behind" series. The only time you would get a second chance is if you die an unbeliever and then rise from the dead and received a second chance. I have not read any of the series but I do know they are Dispensational Premillennialists in their escatology. They would see the church being raptured from the earth before the tribulation and everyone else going into the tribulation. Yes, there are Jews and Gentiles being saved and ultimately national Israel in the tribulation.
Comments
Little people talk about people,regular people talk about things,and big people talk about ideas.
All religions, all cults, I want to talk to everyone!!!By the way, the 1611 King James version sounds so much better than the NIV. Watering down the 1611 King James to the NIV version loses so much beauty as well as meaning, much like Shakespeare and Cliff's
Notes. In other words, if you only read Cliff's Notes, you have not read Shakespeare. If you only read the NIV, you are not reading the
1611 King James Bible.
James 1:19-27: "Wherefore, my beloved brethren, let every man be swift to hear, slow to speak, slow to wrath: For the wrath of man worketh not the righteousness of God. Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls. But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves. For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass: For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was. But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed. If any man among you seem to be religious, and bridleth not his tongue, but deceiveth his own heart, this man's religion is vain. Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world."
So quit calling names, stand up for Jesus and spread the word to the lost, Jesus saves!
1. There is one God, Jehovah.
2. His only begotten Son is Jesus Christ.
3. Jesus is the only means of salvation. There is no other way to be saved.
How about it, Christians? Can we agree on this much?
1. There is one God, Jehovah.
2. His only begotten Son is Jesus Christ.
3. Jesus is the only means of salvation. There is no other way to be saved.
How about it, Christians? Can we agree on this much?
Little people talk about people,regular people talk about things,and big people talk about ideas.
I don't believe in the old man with a white beard; I do believe that a historical man named Jesus lived when they said he did, and taught in the places they describe. Too bad God didn't have the foresight to have him born into a time when there were at least tape recorders available for transcription. My library includes many translations of the Bible, as well as other books, including the Apocryphal books and the so-called "lost books" among many others. I believe I have a Koran or two, but don't have much interest in that other than as a reference volume, like a good dictionary, in case of need. I may even have a Book of Mormon, which I also have never been moved to read. I believe I even have a copy of "Dianetics," but I purposely bought the cheapest used paperback copy I could find because I wouldn't pay more than a quarter to stock my reference library with that work of fiction.
- Life NRA Member
"If cowardly & dishonorable men shoot unarmed men with army guns, the evil must be prevented by the penitentiary...and not by general deprivation of constitutional privilege." - Arkansas Supreme Court, 1878
and "son of the morning" refers to Satan. Anyone trying to do a true translation should have done a better job. By the way, what's the sermon topic for Sunday?
offeror: At least you saved money on the science fiction and fairy
tales (assuming the Mormon book was free?). If you want a good laugh, continue research on L. Ron Hubbard and Dianetics. Convicts from space!!! Free advice, never pay to see a movie made from one of his books. He is a lousy writer.
BushyAR: I like to hear of one's personal experiences. Thanks for sharing. Could you tell us a little more?
John 14:6-7: "Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life; no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him."
I have no more interest in seeing the L. Ron Hubbard junk than I do the Left Behind junk. Rapture, Schmapture. I feel sorry for them as I do the Kool-Aid drinkers down in Central America and those who died in the mansion in Southern California hoping to board the spaceship in the comet's tail.
As for the Mormons, there is yet another very good example of just how convinced people can be even when they may be dead wrong. They'll even come to your door and hound you with misinformation. You might want to keep that in mind too. The "convinced" are always the last to know they've been obsessed with things that are not necessarily so. Scholars try to keep just a tad of objectivity, room for "more to be revealed." It's a good thing, not a weakness.
- Life NRA Member
"If cowardly & dishonorable men shoot unarmed men with army guns, the evil must be prevented by the penitentiary...and not by general deprivation of constitutional privilege." - Arkansas Supreme Court, 1878
Edited by - offeror on 06/30/2002 00:31:07
2 Thessalonians chapter 2 verses 11-12: "And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness." This is not Satan deceiving the world, but God himself sending delusion to all those who rejected Jesus Christ. God wants everyone to be saved, but there is a time coming when you will not be able to get saved.
- Life NRA Member
"If cowardly & dishonorable men shoot unarmed men with army guns, the evil must be prevented by the penitentiary...and not by general deprivation of constitutional privilege." - Arkansas Supreme Court, 1878
blaze: Compare what the pastor says to the 1611 King James Bible.
If his words disagree with the teachings of the Bible, find another
pastor. For instance, if someone says that eating meat or being married is wrong or forbidden simply refer to 1 Timothy chapter 4 verse 1-5: "Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron; Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth. For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving: For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer." If you dig deep enough you can find answers in the
1611 King James to life's problems. The trouble is, most people
think they can do anything because the Bible doesn't state in specicic terms that it is wrong. A Bible that listed every sin by category would be quite long indeed. While the Bible doesn't say
you can't steal your neighbor's motorcycle, it does say in Exodus chapter 20 verse 15: "Thou shalt not steal." There are many denominations and some disagee on minor points. There are also
denominations that teach doctrines that are in direct opposition of what the Bible says. Read your Bible and seek out a church that
adheres strictly to it. Church policy should never be based on anything but the Bible. When you find a good church, expect to find
hypocrites there as well. The devil sends them there to sow dissention, distrust and to discourage you. Ignore them and follow
Christ.
rodney colson
rodney colson
rodney colson
rodney colson
A Prayer from George Washington's personal prayer book: "Almighty God, and most merciful Father, who didst command the children of Israel to offer a daily sacrifice to Thee, that thereby they might glorify and praise Thee for Thy protection both night and day; receive, O Lord, my morning sacrifice which I now offer up to Thee....I beseech Thee, my sins, remove them from Thy presence, as far as the east is from the west, and accept of me for the merits of Thy Son, Jesus Christ, that when I come into Thy temple, and compass Thine altar, my prayers may come before Thee as incense; and as Thou wouldst hear me calling upon Thee in my prayers, so give me grace to hear Thee calling on me in Thy word, that it may be wisdom, righteousness, reconciliation and peace to the saving of my soul in the day of the Lord Jesus."
"The General hopes and trusts , that every officer and man, will endeavor so to live, and act, as becomes a Christian Soldier defending
the dearest Rights and Liberties of his country." George Washington
Lincoln
- Life NRA Member
"If cowardly & dishonorable men shoot unarmed men with army guns, the evil must be prevented by the penitentiary...and not by general deprivation of constitutional privilege." - Arkansas Supreme Court, 1878
I just got back from the hospital today, and right now I'm having a bit of trouble sleeping. (Generally I never use the computer at night, but I was too curious as to what has been said this past week on this discussion thread. Also, I wanted to check on the "Annie" on the auction block!) Last Friday I was in major pain and entered the Emergency Room on Saturday. Bottom line: a blood clot in the lung. Looks like I get t "enjoy" all of the possible complications from my knee replacement!
I'd like to make just a few comments (probably a few too many ... from a guy who has said he would say no more!) I really want to thank to folks who are standing up to thunderbolt's wrangling and hassling. The sad part is that he is probably not really listening, AND he thinks he is helping the cause of Christ!
bhayes420, in your 6/29 posting you really brought some light into the discussion, but tbolt just rattles on "my point remains" ... blah, blah ... blah.
Now we hear from George Washington's personal prayer book ... no thanks, tbolt, I like Jesus' prayer a whole lot better! And then we hear from Abe Lincoln. (I think tbolt could be name dropping. Well, I guess that is patriotic which is OK since it is the 4th of July) But I agree with the last posting - speak for yourself, Abe!
I may ramble on a bit , but I am going to separate my responses ... hoping that some one might read them.
May God bless y'al real good!
Ken
And I agree that the "Left Behind" series is flawed, seriously flawed. Mind you, no one has said that it is the Bible, but, yes, it could lead readers (and readers of Time mag) to think there will be a second chance. Again the Bible makes it clear that after we die there will judgment ... but the good news is that God has worked (and is working) harder to save us than to condemn us. But he does not force us into the kingdom, he leaves the choice up to us because of love for us he did not make us robots ... he wants us to choose to love him - for our own good! The interet in these "Left Behind" books does show that people are hungry! As Pascal said there is within every man a God shaped vacuum that only God can fill. Oh, why do we try to cram all kinds of stuff into it? I'm working on how to tap into this "Left Behind" interest to help people understand and respond to the Good News so we will NOT be left behind! I'm not so sure that fear is the best way to go.
While in the hospital God gave me a wonderful opportunity to connect with a fellow who may not make it a whole lot longer. We really got to consider THE message of hope and God's grace. Which translation did not even come into the conversations. There are important soul issues that men face when life may end soon ... I keep wondering, why wait? What a joy it is to be getting to walk with the Lord right now. As they say, "Know Christ and you know peace ... no Christ and no peace. I think somebody said that, if not ... I just did! Anyway, God really blessed that time ... kind of makes a week in the hospital worth it.
(Oh, yes, I forgot to mention about George Washington's prayer ... at least he did pray in King James English ... of course he was closer to 1611! I guess that makes it a good prayer in the minds of some! Do you suppose that St. Paul prayed in King James English? At least he wrote in it! Well, OK, it IS getting late. But, did you ever wonder, just how did the Church ever make it to the 17th century without the KJV?)
Ken
To the average man on the street today it just sounds outdated! I did not say "everybody" ... just the average guy. Take my word for it ... no, don't take my word for it. Check it out! Go to your friendly neighbourhood gunshop and ask for a brick of 22's in King James English ... let me know what happens!
OK, if you think that is THE way the Bible should SOUND, be my guest, but don't try to cram it down everyone else's throat.
And to the 1611 King-James-only crowd (or to however many/few or you there are) I love ya, but please give it a rest. The "its the best translation" arguments are not very well founded. OK, they are balony!
If you stood on the street and started sounding like Shakespear, people would just think you were wierd and/or out of date or maybe they might love it since they are big Shakespear fans. One of our sons was in Shakespear's Mid-summer Night's Dream a while back, and I'll have to admit that I kind of liked it. (Big statement for an Engineer! And I fear that I am not even spelling his name right ... I did say I was an Engineer!) but I'm glad that he does not speak like that when ordering a hamburger! or sharing his faith in the Lord!
May God bless y'al real good!
Ken
about the blood clot. Ambulate, ambulate, ambulate! You're right, the Left Behind series does generate a lot of interest. Unfortunately, just in the series itself. Many people are satisfied getting their "bible" information anywhere but the Bible. If you think the NIV is a better translation than the 1611 King James Version, please explain why the NIV calls Satan "morning star" a title belonging to Jesus Christ.
So far I have not heard back from anyone who went out to buyeth a brick of 22's from their neighbourhood gun shoppe. I am waiting - patiently waiting!
Ken
Ken, if I answer your question about the 22's, will you tell me why the NIV calls Satan by Christ's title of morning star?
1611 King James 1 Timothy 3:16 "And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory." This verse clearly shows that Jesus is God. The NIV seeks to destroy this clear connection by changing "God" to "He". This is not a better translation, it is
a change in meaning.
Psalms 12:6-7 "The words of the Lord are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times. Thou shalt keep them,
O Lord, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever." These verses deal with preserving God's words and protecting them from this generation. The NIV completely changes the meaning of this verse by changing "them" (a reference to God's words) to "us". These
verses deal with preserving God's words, not us!
The NIV is full of subtile errors and mistakes such as this. Just as
Satan denied the word of God to Eve in the Garden of Eden and misquoted scripture during the temptation of Christ, the NIV attempts to dilute and destroy God's word. Look up these verses in a 1611
King James and compare them to the NIV. How can you explain such errors by scholars unless they were deliberate?
May God bless y'al real good!
Ken
And speaking of the real question ... I just finished reading the articles in the July 1 Time magazine about the "Left Behind Series."
I thought that it was neat that the Time Mag interviewer (Andrea Sachs) had some pretty good things to say about Tim LaHaye. She wrote: "He does not bluster like Jerry Falwell or Jesse Jackson. If he's having an argument - something that happens a lot when you fight for a single political and religious viewpoint all your life - LaHaye doesn't get louder; he gets softer. He leans back and takes a full minute to consider your point. And in the end he is always interested in what for him is the only real question on the table: Do you have a personal relationship with Christ? Would you like to?"
While I am not a big fan of these "Left Behind" books because it sure seems to give the idea that all will have a second chance, which is not biblical (in any translation!).
I sure do like his assessment of the "only real question on the table." And I sure wish that the people I've talked with about reading the series would be asking and answering this question AND that they would be motivated to ask others as well.
Shalom and Shalvah!
Ton Fr?re,
Ken
Also I would disagree with your view that people get a second chance in the "Left Behind" series. The only time you would get a second chance is if you die an unbeliever and then rise from the dead and received a second chance. I have not read any of the series but I do know they are Dispensational Premillennialists in their escatology. They would see the church being raptured from the earth before the tribulation and everyone else going into the tribulation. Yes, there are Jews and Gentiles being saved and ultimately national Israel in the tribulation.