Confiscation of Delta Gun Sales

Delta514

The ATF operating with their normal impudence and applying the tools of their trade, coercion, lies, inuendo, complicated rules and conflicting regulations. They came to Delta Gun Sales with a bad warrant, bearing the wrong address. Took all guns from the wall, counter, and safes, layed them in piles on the floor. If the guns were in boxes, they took them out, layed them in the floor also. After all was said and done, the Leader sent everyone out (including the other ATF agents) then proceeded to tell me how the game would be played. "If you don't protest, if you do not fight this in court, it will all go away. But! if you fight, we will get an indictment against you and if convicted you will become a felon."
All of this, after hindering me from getting a new FFL, and for 1 year from the date of first application, all of this after telling me over and over "It looks as if everything will go through soon". All of this, even after I requested that I would like to sell or transfer some inventory to another Dealer. The answer was: " No, not while the application is in progress." The ATF has just been put under the Justice Department, (which may have some control over their Gestapo Tatics). You would think by their actions; The ATF works directly for Sarah Brady and not for the American people.

Ronnie G. Perkins

gunphreak

Sure seems that way, doesn't it??

Let me call to your attention a few things Sarah Brady has nothing to do with, on the Federal Scene.

-The Our Lady of Encroachment Act
-The US Gestapo Act
-The Incumbent Protection Act
-Just about any other Terrorism Bill, Act or such.

Now, who's working for who, now??? The Answer is simple. Sarah Brady is the unwitting puppet of the BATFags, and our Federal Government. So is Emperor Gray Davis, Philosopher king Andrew McKelvey, Fuhrer Tom Diaz, and all those other idiots from the Brady Campaign to Undermine American Values, The Violence Condonement Center, the Million Hypocrite March, and 99% of those idiots in Hollywood.

I am politically incorrect, and therefore, a political dissident. I know what happens to political dissidents in other countries, and I'm waiting to see what will happen to me.

Death to Tyrants!!!

Jesus Christ believed in the right to keep and bear arms, Luke 22:36.

-Gunphreak

Darrell

Maybe I missed something. Looks like you VIOLATED the law. And you are mad at BATF?

supv26

Hmmmmmm........ I have never heard of anyone getting "hindered" from renewing a license, unless there were some 'problems'.

D G Guns

gunphreak

The way the ATF handled that one tells me DG "violated" laws that really don't exist, and are using force to ensure the truth doesn't come out. Delta514, what exactly was it you were accused of???

Death to Tyrants!!!

Jesus Christ believed in the right to keep and bear arms, Luke 22:36.

-Gunphreak

Delta514

Hummmm, looks as if the ATF has damage control even on this forum. So some would say: Delta Guns is automaticly guilty "OR" the ATF would have never caused any problems, like the ATF is the Gun Owners Best Friend? As best I can tell; The US Congress passed rules to ensure fairness from the ATF. Then ATF instigated some of their own rules, and the rules not written down are Arbitrary and Subject to interpretation, (Their interpretation). My question would be: When all guns are confiscated, will the ATF still have Guns? One Press Secretary shot(change the world), 58,000 die in Vietnam, (No big deal?) I carried an M-14 at 17 years old, Sarah didn't object, nor did the ATF.

Ronnie G. Perkins

gunphreak

Ron Perkins,

I said "I thought it looked like DG "violated" laws that really don't exist. That really don't exist!!!! I'm on your side, sir. I never saw a BATFag I didn't have extreme contempt for, and you can quote that!!!

Death to Tyrants!!!

Jesus Christ believed in the right to keep and bear arms, Luke 22:36.

-Gunphreak

Darrell

So some would say: Delta Guns is automaticly guilty "OR" the ATF would have never caused any problems,
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NOBODY said that. So what was the EXACT charge? Or did they just walk in the door and load up? I think I can see where this is going.

Delta514

Darrell: Where this is going? Randy Weaver visited my store today. You can ask him, "Where this is going". When the Guards at Dakau were arrested, their only excuse was the same as the BATF's - "We were only doing our Job."

Ronnie G. Perkins

Darrell

Darrell: Where this is going? Randy Weaver visited my store today. You can ask him, "Where this is going". When the Guards at Dakau were arrested, their only excuse was the same as the BATF's - "We were only doing our Job."
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Weaver was there? Big deal. You still dodge the question. What were the charges if any filed? A search warrant? Let me know. I can get a copy of the documents. We can share.

Delta514

Darrell: My Purpose here is not to banty words with you, obviously your agenda precludes mine. I am from the Thomas Jefferson school of philosophy, not the William Jefferson school, as you seem to be. From the Declaration of Independance: "accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed" Jefferson Inaugural Address: "This Government, the worlds best hope, may by possibility want energy to preserve itself? I trust not. I believe this, on the contrary, the strongest Government on earth. I believe it the only one where every man, at the call of the Law would fly to the standard of the Law; would meet invasions of the public order as his own personal concern. Sometimes it is said that man cannot be trusted with the Government of himself. Can he then be trusted with the Government of others? Or have we found angels in the form of Kings to govern him? Let History answer this question."

Ronnie G. Perkins

Darrell

Darrell: My Purpose here is not to banty words with you, obviously your agenda precludes mine.
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It seems your purpose is not to tell the truth. I suspect BATF may be onto something but not sure what. If you tap danced with them like you do here they decided to cut your concert down into a ditty.
Now, what are the charges if any?

sjc1

Delta514:
What exactly is the ATF saying that you did? What items were they looking for when they served the search warrant? You should have a copy of the search warrant listing what they were searching for.

Delta514

The ATF warrant had a specfic rifle on it. UPS delivered a package and said that it was pre-paid. I signed and went back talking to two customers. As soon as the UPS truck was out of sight, ATF came through the door and ran the customers off. The Warrant was served, it had the wrong address, I questioned that fact. The warrant had a rifle listed Colt AR, # etc. I told the ATF I had AR's but no Colt. They said "Yes you do", "It's right there in that box." Suddenly I had the feeling that something was going on that I had no knowledge of (that "I stepped into a trap and I could hear the clang as it snapped shut"). I had not ordered the rifle, had no knowledge there was even a rifle in the box. The warrant being open ended and all of my store was at their disposal if the Gun mentioned on the warrant was found, (Which was all most a certain, even tho I had not seen the rifle to date and the package was never opened, at least not by me). I have been high profile on a Political level around my home town for appx. 2 years, posting and garnering facts as to the Rape and Pillaging of the town by opportunist and insider contracting. I had been slapped by the higherarchy before and did not lay down, this was their most definitive clout and posed for my distruction. As I said; "The Agent incharge (after clearing the building of all the other agents), told me to leave it alone, don't protest, don't fight in court, it will all go away, but if I fought I would be indicted and become a felon from that point on". Now! Come to your own conclusions, but please do not add or detract from the information I have brought to this forum. Mr. Darrell: Could you entertain the thought that I may just be telling the truth? Or do you have an agenda that requires me to be telling falsehoods?

Ronnie G. Perkins

Delta514

By the Way: There were no charges

Ronnie G. Perkins

sjc1

Delta514:
It seems that the ATF was put onto you by someone that definitely has an agenda with you. I suggest that you get a good attorney and I wish you well. Also, I am very glad that I do not live in your town!

Darrell

The search warrant sounds proper and you forget a JUDGE had to approve of it. You have the right to contest it and you have a right to petition the court to return the property taken. Now the question is ..."DO YOU HAVE AN FFL?" Under the terms of that FFL BATF has certain rights you agreed to for inspections etc. If anyone on this planet needs a lawyer it's YOU. Nobody goes to jail for what they did NOT say. I'd suggest a lawyer pronto or get ready to meet your new wife....."Bubba the well endowed."

gunphreak

What you have just described to me, Delta514, smells of entrapment. I mean, they knew what they were looking for and where to find it, while you had no idea of it. If no charges were filed, I'd be filing some theft charges against those slimy pieces of crap and get my guns back.

Recently, a local gun store was closed down here thatnks to the BATFags. I never met a BATFag I didn't truly despise.

Death to Tyrants!!!

Jesus Christ believed in the right to keep and bear arms, Luke 22:36.

-Gunphreak

Darrell

Recently, a local gun store was closed down here thatnks to the BATFags. I never met a BATFag I didn't truly despise.
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Of course they violated NO laws. I'm sure the owner made that clear. The BATF was just bored that day. Even a broken clock is right twice a day, ONCE if military time.

Delta514

"Resistance to tyrants is obedence to God"

Ronnie G. Perkins

gunphreak

I hardly find entrapment to be a viable solution to criminals. All that does is turn normal people into criminals.

Let's look at the situation in depth. A couple come in to the local gun store. The lady asks the store keeper to offer her a good selection for a defensive gun. She selects a .38 special. The check runs through fine, but then she turns up $50.00 short. The guy offers her money in the form of a credit card and everything is good, right???

Wrong. Although the shop keeper was under the impression that they were husband and wife (right down to rings), they were actually undercover BATFags trying to get the shop keeper to make a straw purchase. The store was set up. This same scenario, if anyone else tried to do it, could be a felony for even trying to do it, which is why he never suspected anyone to actually be stupid enough to try.

This kind of law enforcement, I, and everyone else out there, can do without, right Delta514???

Beware, the Homeland Oppression Act of 2002!!! It, like its predecessor, the USA Gestapo Act, is a travesty that will cause more harm than good. The catalyst, should it be passed is the Our Lady of Encroachment Act. Mark my words!!!

Death to Tyrants!!!

Jesus Christ believed in the right to keep and bear arms, Luke 22:36.

-Gunphreak

Darrell

Wrong. Although the shop keeper was under the impression that they were husband and wife (right down to rings), they were actually undercover BATFags trying to get the shop keeper to make a straw purchase. The store was set up.
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What movie was this in? I'd love a date, location and names. BATF doesn't have the manpower unless they have had a good solid lead the shop is up to some monkey business. And that is a BAD example..real bad.

Delta514

Gunny: Example: I want you down, I send cocaine through the mail (pre-paid), you are used to getting packages because of your business. You sign for but don't open. I have the DEA informed prior to sending. Your outta here>>>>>>>>>IIIIIIIII. The ATF doesn't get paid for saving or helping anyone. The ATF only gets credit for the People they do catch. Alcohol is no problem anymore, Tobacco no problem, Firearms is the only thing left to justify my job. The Attorney General just had ATF put under the Justice Department. Hurrah for Ashcroft! ATF is alienating the nation with their scare tatics and roughshod ways. In the 50's we could purchase a gun from any hardware store. Now? Things are so much better, more rules, more regulations, more crime, less Constitutional Rights = Less Freedom. Thank you ATF for doing such a fine job of saving us from ourselves. Like a bayonet lug on an AR rifle will kill better, a clip containing more than 10 rounds is much more dangerous, an 18" barrel will kill much more efficently than a 20" barrel. ~It's all about CONTROL, isn't it?

Ronnie G. Perkins

Darrell

The ATF doesn't get paid for saving or helping anyone. The ATF only gets credit for the People they do catch. Alcohol is no problem anymore, Tobacco no problem, Firearms is the only thing left to justify my job.
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TOTAL BS. You drink the wrong bars. Smuggling of tobacco products to avoid taxes is rampant and this includes sales from low tax states to states with HIGH taxes. Smuggling cigarettes from Canada in the U.S. has been a serious problem for a LONG time. Moonshine still exists and smuggling booze over our borders are still a problem. BATF also deals with explosive issues and collections of various excise taxes. With your total lack of the most BASIC knowledge of such things I don't think you should entertain the thoughts of running any business let alone one firearms related.


The Attorney General just had ATF put under the Justice Department. Hurrah for Ashcroft! ATF is alienating the nation with their scare tatics and roughshod ways. In the 50's we could purchase a gun from any hardware store. Now? Things are so much better, more rules, more regulations, more crime, less Constitutional Rights = Less Freedom. Thank you ATF for doing such a fine job of saving us from ourselves. Like a bayonet lug on an AR rifle will kill better, a clip containing more than 10 rounds is much more dangerous, an 18" barrel will kill much more efficently than a 20" barrel. ~It's all about CONTROL, isn't it?
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BATF did NOT invent those laws just to pick on YOU. They were passed in congress and given to BATF to enforce. Maybe you could use a civics class as well to understand our government. I'm no fan of the BATF but it's a matter of having the RIGHT information and it appears yours is coming from a bad bartender. You have a new wife in your future named BUBBA.

Delta514

Darrell: I am trying to figure out if you are the Devil's Advocate or just a common Smart *? I opt for both. Darrell: you know how I make my living, I haven't hesitated to give my name on this forum, what about you? I see you have the Proper attitude to qualify you for ATF. I'm just curious how you would do "1" on "1", up close and personal? Without a badge or Gun and a Mandate from God. Heros come cheap when anonymous or have an eight to one advantage. Seig Heil Mein Fuher.

Ronnie G. Perkins

Delta514

By the way Darrell: Congress did pass laws and went to elaborates to protect the constitutional rights of the people. (in that one statement you are correct). The ATF established their own rules to suppliment and contradict the intentions of Congress. Look in your Firearms Regulations Guide, under ATF Rules. Would you argue that the ATF hasn't the worst repore with the American People (of all Government Agencys)? Now we can see why Ashcroft put the ATF under the Justice Department. ATF was well on the way to alienating the American Citizens. Shall we discuss the reasons ATF has the Gestapo Stigma attached? The reason Darrell is: The ATF earned their reputation.

Ronnie G. Perkins

Darrell

Shall we discuss the reasons ATF has the Gestapo Stigma attached? The reason Darrell is: The ATF earned their reputation.
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As some gun owners have. Seems you forgot to read those regulations. Thousands of FFL have NO trouble going by the rules and regulations. The fact it's a stretch and a challenge for you says something. I'd refocus the anger if I were you also. Glass houses are cold this time of year.

gunphreak

I find nothing noble about how our government has put a price tag on something that should have none. Within our first 4 Amendments to our US Constitution are all the rights a citizen can exercise and enjoy. All of them have been trampled on, and a few of them have been used as toilet paper. Does anyone find it to be noble to be placed in an unwinnable situation?? That is what "entrapment" does. Now, someone tell me just how useful the Homeland Gestapo act is when law abiding citizens are queried as if they were criminals, and big brother is watching, listening, trying to pry into every little thing people do, just how useful that would be. I'll tell you what this sets the stage for. Blackmail, fraud, entrapment, extortion, stalking, or settling the score. Benefits to the American citizen...... negligible.

...but we have nothing to worry about if we're not doing anything.

Guess again on that one. They can find something wrong. They always do.

Delta514, Lawyer or not, I think they've come to take you away, ha ha ho ho hee hee, but not to the funny farm. You better be prepared to fight. Most people don't realize this kind of thing can happen untill the BATFags bust down their door with machine guns and no search warrant.

Death to Tyrants!!!

Jesus Christ believed in the right to keep and bear arms, Luke 22:36.

-Gunphreak

Darrell

Most people don't realize this kind of thing can happen untill the BATFags bust down their door with machine guns and no search warrant.
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No search warrant eh? You watch way to many movies. Obvious you have NO law enforcement experience.

gunphreak

No, I don't watch too many movies. This is information I get from the Sheriff of my county, who I might add, does not like this kind of conduct, but does not have the authority to kick feds out of his county.

That's why so few of them make the news. Proper procedure is not followed. Take your jackboots off at the door!!!!

Death to Tyrants!!!

Jesus Christ believed in the right to keep and bear arms, Luke 22:36.

-Gunphreak

Darrell

This is information I get from the Sheriff of my county, who I might add, does not like this kind of conduct, but does not have the authority to kick feds out of his county.
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Do your homework. Find THE case. You think he's a reliable source? If you want bad advice get it from a bartender or a cop. Find THEE case and check it out. IF you won't or can't I WILL...Get me the defendants name and jurisdiction. It's all public record. You knew that of course. Polish my jackboots. Your day job is in danger.

gunphreak

Dream on.

You've been a real help. I assume you have law enforcement experience, Darrell, but, if I may..... no wait, on second thought, why should any of us believe any of this. Find us some cases, and the bottom line is that could still very well be a bunch of Gestapo crap I'm not interested in hearing about. As for the Sheriff of the county, he is an elected official and answers more to the people than the Governor. I'll believe his word over yours... end of story.

Death to Tyrants!!!

Jesus Christ believed in the right to keep and bear arms, Luke 22:36.

-Gunphreak

Darrell

As for the Sheriff of the county, he is an elected official and answers more to the people than the Governor. I'll believe his word over yours... end of story.
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So you believe ELECTED officials. OK got it. So call your "elected officials" and ask them about it. They would never lie to you. (sniker sniker).....

gunphreak

County elections tend to be a little different than presidential primaries. I actually have known this guy for quite some time, and that in itself makes a great difference. I believe his word over a lot of people's word, because I know this guy. If I didn't know him at all, then that would be a different story. Because I know him makes the difference, not because he's elected.

Sounds to me as if you are trying your hardest to twist everything around. Don't you have anything better to do???

Death to Tyrants!!!

Jesus Christ believed in the right to keep and bear arms, Luke 22:36.

-Gunphreak

tr fox

This debate could go on for a long, long, time with neither side winning. I would like to add that I could sleep better at night if I could believe that no government agency would ever purposely violate any good citizens rights. However, I have seen too much in my life to believe that. And I have seen this both from the inside looking out and from the outside looking in.

if they don't want us to have guns for self defense, what do they want us to have?

gunphreak

Beautiful thing is, in Ohio, where no concealed carry exists, our sheriff started the march to make it a reality. Why? Because it is in the better interest of the people, because he knows the one person involved in crimes that is always there is the victim. It would make his job easier for people to tag them on the toe and fill out paperwork rather than start an investigation to catch a crook on few leads.

He also believes the ATF is nothing more than a bunch of JBT's marching in lock step to orders that come from a malefactive government that wants us all disarmed. With as many governments that turned criminal in the 20th century and began murdering its own citizens, that is why he is NOT in favor of gun control, or the twisting of the 2nd Amendment crap that happens on a regular basis.

Death to Tyrants!!!

Jesus Christ believed in the right to keep and bear arms, Luke 22:36.

-Gunphreak

Edited by - gunphreak on 12/11/2002 00:36:01

Delta514

RIGHT ON GUNNY: This Darrell Dude is obviously drawing a Government Check. All of the Regulations have done nothing to stifle Crime, all they have done is stifle "THE PEOPLE". The ATF are no longer part of "THE PEOPLE", they are "THE ENFORCERS". The ATF does nothing to promote the betterment of Humanity, nor does the ATF produce anything worthwile. What would ATF Agents do for a living if they finally succeded in eliminating all GUNS? Would they work at Animal Control, run a Backhoe, become mercenaries, or security guards? The ATF is the first and formost despised enity of the Federal Government, (even to include the IRS). Do you think they tell their momma what they do for a living? "Momma, we are saving Mankind"!

Ronnie G. Perkins

gunphreak

I mean, come on. Law enforcement is essential, but law enforcement by JBT's is not my idea of law enforcement. It's my idea of oppression. The results over the last century have created 57 million people murdered at the hands of a malicious, criminal government through the exercise of diabolic edicts called "gun control", which disarmed a segment of people and then began slaughtering them. The ATF should be more properly named "KGB" or "SS" or something like that.

We are supposed to be these JBT's employer, and how do they repay us... by biting the hand that feeds them. If I owned a dog that did this, it would happen exactly one time before I put the SOB down.

Death to Tyrants!!!

Jesus Christ believed in the right to keep and bear arms, Luke 22:36.

-Gunphreak

Edited by - gunphreak on 12/11/2002 00:44:46

Darrell

Jesus Christ believed in the right to keep and bear arms, Luke 22:36.
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He also said, "render unto Ceaser what is Ceaser's" as I recall.
ATF was formed to collect TAXES which is still a major part of it's business. They try to find tax cheats for booze and tobacco products. it's a BIG business. Also the 11% excise tax on firearms and ammunition. They didn't ask for but were GIVEN in 1972 the job of enforcing federal gun laws and changes in society have shown a need for that job as well. The vast majority of contact I have had with BATF over the years as a cop and a gun dealer have been cordial and without issues. But then again I don't run around shooting off my mouth about my "rights" or ask if I can help them polish their jack boots when they come in. I got a copy of the laws and FOLLOWED THEM. Not that difficult to do. You run around with a big mouth and shoot sparks out your butt you draw attention. I have little time for IRS but I stay out of the spotlight with them as well.
I don't send either Christmas cards, but I find the whiners and complainers always have a attitude problem that does indeed get SPECIAL attention. When my kids used to call when they got into trouble I always said..." You were at home and what happened?"

gunphreak

Polishing of jackboots??? In my home??? I don't think so. Everyone takes their shoes, boots or what-have-you at the door.

Render unto Caesar what is Caesar's, huh? God only asks for 10%. Why is it the feds take 40% then?? And taxing income?? That comes straight out of the Communist Manifesto. There was also no special tax on swords, the most sophisticated weapon at that time, either. Why is there a special tax on the most sophisticated weapon of our time??

There's a word for those who are not willing to stand their ground. I am not among them.

Death to Tyrants!!!

Jesus Christ believed in the right to keep and bear arms, Luke 22:36.

-Gunphreak

Edited by - gunphreak on 12/12/2002 01:25:03

Darrell

Why is there a special tax on the most sophisticated weapon of our time??

There's a word for those who are not willing to stand their ground. I am not among them.
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* * *.....My dad said you can * about things or FIX them. BATF has NOTHING to do with what you wrote. You need a basic civics class. Bet you check under your bed for monsters each night.
If you find BATF MAKING laws let me know. It will be a hell of a moment in American history and you will have discovered it. OBEY THE LAWS AND WORRY NOT OR CHANGE THEM.