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Obey which laws, exactly??? So many of them are arbitrary to others in the same system of laws. Meanwhile, most of us do not, all by themselves have the clout to fight it out in court, so we * to our representatives, hoping we don't end up having to spend our fortunes to achieve a right that should have been ours all along.
You know, the KGB and Secret Service were not legislative bureaus, either. They were the executors of malevolent law-makers. Maybe you need to look in a civics book, and preferably not one of those that has the truth revised out of it due to political correctness. No one needs that kind of education.
Death to Tyrants!!!
Jesus Christ believed in the right to keep and bear arms, Luke 22:36.
Obey which laws, exactly???
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ALL OF THEM!!!!
So many of them are arbitrary to others in the same system of laws.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
In your uneducated OPINION. You sound like a burned out hippie from the 60's trying to justify changes in drug laws.
Meanwhile, most of us do not, all by themselves have the clout to fight it out in court, so we * to our representatives,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Seems odd you left out VOTING isn't it? Civics 101. Oh now you will bring it up since I mentioned it. email me your full name and the county you live in. Voter registration records are PUBLIC. I think I know how this will play out. YOUR TURN.
GUNNY: Waste of time trying to explaine anything to Mr. Darrell. America had Washington, Jefferson, Adams, Hamilton, Franklin, Paine. We called men such as these = Heros. Yet they rebelled against an established Government.
Hydrich, Himmler, Goering, Eichman, would be the type Darrell would be attracted too. The "Go Along - Get along" Hurrah for me and to hell with you concept!
WE call them the "Classic, Intellectual Cowards" People that don't have the strengh of their convictions, so they have no convictions at all. You can bet this Turkey (Darrell) never fought for his country.
Yet they rebelled against an established Government.
Hydrich, Himmler, Goering, Eichman, would be the type Darrell would be attracted too. The "Go Along - Get along" Hurrah for me and to hell with you concept!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I am a rable rouser of the first order. Rather that sit around the bar and look for others for reinforcement and *, I do something about it. Weather it's just a VOTE (you never do admit to such an act) to running for office at the city level a few years ago or aiding my wife in doing so last year for the city council of Minneapolis. I'm sure you never ran for any office. that would be WORK. Toss in my constant confrontation of government types on radio/TV in a MAJOR market and endless published articles I've done my share. So far you have not mentioned ONE thing you have done but *. Well? YOUR TURN!!!
I have aided in the DEFENSE of people charged with unjust crimes among other things included at NO CHARGE. Looking over YOUR posts from the start all you do is *.
I voted, for all the good it does. I am involved with several lobbyist groups and a contributor to others. I will never be a politician. Become the thing I despise the most.... never!!!!
If voting could change anything, it would be illegal.
It would appear in your self righteous know it all opinion you haven't looked past the nose on your face to see you have been deceived. Run for office... yeah, there's a real solution. Unless it is the Presidency you speak of, it is as futile as everything else. That is why I have banded together with others to accomplish it. If voting is our only weapon... consider us defenseless.
Death to Tyrants!!!
Those who would offer any interpretation that would relegate Amendment II to "relic" status of a bygone era are blatantly stating that the remainder of the Bill of Rights isn't worth a damn, either.
Run for office... yeah, there's a real solution. Unless it is the Presidency you speak of, it is as futile as everything else. That is why I have banded together with others to accomplish it. If voting is our only weapon... consider us defenseless.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Then your new wife "Bubba" will explain it to you. Next you will claim you joined a militia. That might work. Only about a THIRD of the members are federal agents. Odds are in YOUR favor.
I haven't said a thing about raising arms, and I am saying I have banded together with organizations, like OFCC, JPFO and Gun Owners of America. Nothing illegal about any of that. The only way I will be imprisoned is by violation of an IMAGINARY or ARBITRARY law. By no other means... I can promise you that.
Death to Tyrants!!!
Those who would offer any interpretation that would relegate Amendment II to "relic" status of a bygone era are blatantly stating that the remainder of the Bill of Rights isn't worth a damn, either.
Gunny: Heir Darrell is wrong again, I have ran for office = Running for office requires support of Big Money = Big Money expects a return on their investment.
True: The Constitution should not be re-interpreted for light or transient causes. (Micro Management because of Social Trends). The ATF hasn't considered: The conglomeration of Rules and Regulations may be the root cause of our Social problems. In other words= "If you are not part of the cure ~ you are part of the problem". The facts as they are: Through Liberal thinking and Micro-management, the "People" are rendered Powerless, Complacient, Rebelious, or Totally Detatched from their Government. Society breaks under the weight of its own, constantantly expanding and conflicting rules. Trusting Government is the Peoples first mistake. "Power corupts ~ Absolute Power = Corupts Absolutly".
I'll go along with that, Ronnie. My "Not so education" came from the school of Thomas Jefferson, not William Jefferson. They didn't trust a governmental system with total power anymore than we should. Power does indded corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. I like that. Quite possibly the most enlightening thing in this entire thread.
Cheers Ronnie[:D]
-Gunphreak
Death to Tyrants!!!
Those who would offer any interpretation that would relegate Amendment II to "relic" status of a bygone era are blatantly stating that the remainder of the Bill of Rights isn't worth a damn, either.
Try THIS:
Holding a bible, ask any ATF agent to swear on it that he nor any other agent he has ever seen, has NEVER broken any law nor gave false testimony! Look in their eyes and watch their FEAR of swearing on the bible. Many will swear and lie, but their eyes will betray them!
Nuff Said-
Bootleg
quote:Originally posted by gunphreak
I'll go along with that, Ronnie. My "Not so education" came from the school of Thomas Jefferson, not William Jefferson. They didn't trust a governmental system with total power anymore than we should. Power does indded corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. I like that. Quite possibly the most enlightening thing in this entire thread.
Cheers Ronnie[:D]
-Gunphreak
Death to Tyrants!!!
Those who would offer any interpretation that would relegate Amendment II to "relic" status of a bygone era are blatantly stating that the remainder of the Bill of Rights isn't worth a damn, either.
GUNNY: Just curious, but have you read Ben Franklin's: "Rules By Which A Great Empire May Be Reduced"? I find the understanding very prophetic. I only wonder why Jefferson, Franklin, Paine, Emerson, are not required reading for anyone living or believing in a Democracy.
Ronnie
"We have become slaves to our Public Servants", they entered our lives as guest, soon became our host, then eventually our Masters.
Well, Ronnie, let me see if maybe I can't clear it up. First of all, tyranny and democracy do not go habd in hand. With that out of the way, it has been said that knowledge is power, and the less we know, the less power we have. I have absolutely no reason to believe legislature such as any gun kontrol/victim disarmament law, the USA Gestapo Akt, the Our Lady of Enkroachment Akt, The Inkumbent Protektion through Sedition Akt or the misuses of the Separation of Church and state leads me to any conclusion other than tyranny, bottom line. That is why our children and grandchildren are indoctrinated to believe a liberal agenda is the way. Hell, I was dealing with this the other day, listening to my little brother spouting off propaganda at me, and didn't even realize its downfall until I finally called it to his attention. This was not an easy argument.
Propaganda doesn't work on me....
Death to Tyrants!!!
Those who would offer any interpretation that would relegate Amendment II to "relic" status of a bygone era are blatantly stating that the remainder of the Bill of Rights isn't worth a damn, either.
Gunny: Heir Darrell is wrong again, I have ran for office = Running for office requires support of Big Money = Big Money expects a return on their investment.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
What office? Please fill me in. It's public record. What's to hide. My wife ran for Minneapolis City council and it's a BIG town of 400,000. Avg council candidate spent $20,000. CHUMP CHANGE by any standard. Many have won state offices here fo rfar less. Running on the klan or militia ticket does limit your chances and finding is hard to find. Those types seldom have a dime.
For 6000 years of recorded History, Man has been killing eachother piecemeal. NOW! The ATF and Sarah Brady are going to change the Nature of Man and save the world? They have discovered RULES and REGULATIONS, fines and jailtime. (What an innovative concept). As Adolf Hitler said in 1935: "for the first time in history, a government will have complete Gun Control. Our Citizens will be safer, our Police more effective. The world will follow our lead into the future". (Dream on Sarah).
One of the things I find most irritating; 58,000 can die in Vietnam and it's no big deal, yet when 1 Press Secretary gets shot = We change the Constitution. JFK was not shot with an assualt rifle, Robert was shot with a 22 pistol, Brady & Regan was shot with a 22 pistol, Martin was supposedly shot with a 30-06 hunting rifle. I fail to see why a Bayonet lug on an AR rifle makes it so dangerous? Enough rules and regulations; You have to be breaking one of them. At 17 years old, I carried an M-14 in service of my country, (it had a bayonet lug). Where the hell was the BATF or Sarah Brady at the time?
And how about the 57 million who have died at the hands of gun control over the 20th Century. That in itself is plenty of reason for the Brady bunch to quit wasting oxygen.
Death to Tyrants!!!
Those who would offer any interpretation that would relegate Amendment II to "relic" status of a bygone era are blatantly stating that the remainder of the Bill of Rights isn't worth a damn, either.
WE have verbalized our Gun Rights, We have held up the Constitution and pointed to Article 2, WE have complained, We have tried to reason, all to no avail.
There may come a day in the near future, a day when the American Sportsman, Hunter, Shooter, Militant, will have to take a stand. The American Public labors under varying opinions, some believing the Constitution is outdated, some believing the Constitution should vary with the occasion. I have lived 58 years under this Constitution, I was taught to believe in it. Now we are told not to believe because the Constitution suffers to interpitation? Websters definition of "Variable"; Subject to variation, subject to change, FICKLE. My question to our Government: If we are not to believe in the Constitution; what do we believe in? Should we ask Brady, Clinton, Schumer, Franks, Rosie, to write us another Constitution? One of which they personally approve?
Declaration of Independence: "Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light or transient causes; and that accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they have become accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object envinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, their duty, to throw off such Government and to provide new Guards for their future security"
You know - you all keep fighting amongst yourselves, but I bet (hope)you'd all agree the 2nd Amendment gives an individual the right to keep and bear arms, so remember this - united we stand, divided we fall.
It's time to give up on America as we know it. Quit bickering about this law and that law. This is NOT the country I wanted to protect when I JOINED the service back in '68. It's time for a New America! Won't someone capable (I admitt, I am not) step forward and lead the way?
Oh, and by the way, Jesus Christ was considered a criminal, and was put to death for his crimes.
From Darrel "If you find BATF MAKING laws let me know. It will be a hell of a moment in American history and you will have discovered it."
How about ATF BREAKING laws? If you're a gun dealer then you should know that the 68 GCA states that gun dealer records will not be used to make a registration or database of firearms or firearm owners. It also says that out of business dealer records will go to a "dead records" repository. Under Clintons watch all the records were moved and the 4473's have been scanned into a database. An official for the ATF told their appropriations committee that they would not stop scanning in the 4473's, even if a federal judge issues an injuction, because "We have a mandate from the President".
Have you ever heard of "Operation forward trace'? When the ATF illegally started collecting info on who bought semi-auto firearms while they were doing compliance inspections of dealer records?
I noticed earlier in this post, in my "uneducated opinion" about how I was probably a hippie from the 60's trying to justify drug laws. What the hell is that supposed to be all about anyways? I have no interest in the drug laws of this country, because I don't do them. No where in our Constitution is there any guarantee of legal drug use. It does, however, cover the right to Keep and Bear Arms, among other things. Why would anyone who posts here give a damn about drug laws, anyways??
Death to Tyrants!!!
Those who would offer any interpretation that would relegate Amendment II to "relic" status of a bygone era are blatantly stating that the remainder of the Bill of Rights isn't worth a damn, either.
Hi GP, I think I can tell you exactly what is up with that, it is a standard ploy of the "Liberal Left" (which in reality is Marxism).
They use a little mind control technique that gets people to relate one thing to another. It's like after the OKC Federal building bombing, CNN would always have a picture of an AR-15 type or AK-47 type rifle in the background. Does that have anything to do with blowing up a building? NO. But it does have a tendency to make some people equate firearms to terrorist.
I bet his hopes is that by branding you with the hippie/druggie label, he can make other people equate Patriotism with criminal behavior.
Good to see clear thinking people here. I don't trust the media, and I always strive towards seeing through the bias.
Death to Tyrants!!!
Those who would offer any interpretation that would relegate Amendment II to "relic" status of a bygone era are blatantly stating that the remainder of the Bill of Rights isn't worth a damn, either.
What I see is a government not so slowly brainwashing its citizens int thinking "guns are bad", "you dont need them" WELL AWSNER ME THIS DARRELL are the cops going to be their if some crack addict burgler comes in to my house with malicious intent? No they'll come late to scrape my dead carcas off the floor and take pictues of my raped wife. EVERY SINGLE NEW GUN LAW IS AIMED AT DISARMAMENT and there is no getting aorund that. They are turing the law abiding into quadrapligic sheep among wolves. They want us totally dependant upon them, so we cant protect our selves from anyone, not even them. Ronnie and Gunphreak check out my topic and Gunphreaks topic "something to think about" I think thats what its called.
The structure is set, you never change it with a ballot poll.
Give me my rights,
liberty and freedom, or give me some time to stock up on ammo.
If voting could really change things, it would be illegal.
Death to Tyrants!!!
Those who would offer any interpretation that would relegate Amendment II to "relic" status of a bygone era are blatantly stating that the remainder of the Bill of Rights isn't worth a damn, either.
The ATF doesn't make Laws, Congress Makes Laws. The ATF makes "RULES" and apply them as "LAW".
I do get a little sick of people saying "It's too big for us to change", Sarah Brady didn't say that. Our predicament can only be changed by Resolve and Determination. (something the American Public finds lacking these days).
I Believe what Thomas Jefferson said, "It is the kind of protection we receive in return for the "Rights" we give up? Besides the Spirit of the times may alter, will alter. Our Rulers will beccome corrupt, our People careless. A single Zealot may commence persecutor, and better men be his victims. It can never be too often repeated, that the time for fixing every Essential Right on a Legal basis is while our rulers are honest and ourselves UNITED".~ "This Government, the worlds best hope, may by possibility want energy to preserve itself?"
Remember the days where ATF meant Automatic Transmission Fluid???
Let's go back to those days....
Death to Tyrants!!!
Those who would offer any interpretation that would relegate Amendment II to "relic" status of a bygone era are blatantly stating that the remainder of the Bill of Rights isn't worth a damn, either.
If anyone is desirous of viewing more of my opinions on the state of affairs on a local level (and compare them to the National Level). Please Visit: geocities.com/perkinsforum
Those who would offer any interpretation that would relegate Amendment II to "relic" status of a bygone era are blatantly stating that the remainder of the Bill of Rights isn't worth a damn, either.
2/12/2003 = The U.S.Marshall Service serves a summons to Ronnie Perkins AKA Delta Gun Sales, 7:00 PM. 2/13/2002 = Two Agents of the ATF bring Forfiture Papers to Ronnie Perkins/Delta Gun Sales. The Forfiture Papers are Mailed From the ATF Department of Forfiture, Washington, DC. on 12/16/2002. The Option of Request to return Confiscated Guns is required to be submitted within 35 days of the Date on the Letter. Now! Do the Math.
What movie was this in? I'd love a date, location and names. BATF doesn't have the manpower unless they have had a good solid lead the shop is up to some monkey business. And that is a BAD example..real bad.
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Darell this happens all the time here in Illinois but it's not the BATF it's the Chicago CAGE unit, short for Chicago Anti Gun Enforcement unit. Who do you think prosecutes these gunshops? It's not the Chicago Police Department! http://ojjdp.ncjrs.org/pubs/gun_violence/profile11.html
**********************
Also below:
Title: Suburban Gun Dealer Guilty Of Illegal Sales
Chicago Tribune
29 August 2000
By Matt O'Connor
A former suburban gun-shop operator admitted Monday to illegally selling
dozens of weapons-including several that authorities said were later used in
three killings, two armed robberies and other felony offenses.
Kenneth Wisch, 49, of New Lenox pleaded guilty to a 22-count indictment,
becoming the second suburban gun dealer to be convicted in U.S. District
Court since a federal crackdown over the last year on so-called straw gun
sales locally.
Wisch admitted he lied on required federal forms about the identity of the
real buyers while selling more than 60 handguns between 1993 and early 1997.
Assistant U.S. Atty. Amy St. Eve said in court that prosecutors will seek a
stiffer sentence for Wisch because he had reason to believe the firearms
would be used in felony offenses.
Wisch's lawyer, James W. Reilley, disputed the allegation.
A spokesman for the U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms said
investigators traced weapons illegally sold by Wisch to three killings-a
January 1995 bar fight in Harvey, a gang-related hit on Chicago's North Side
in 1997 and a shooting in Texas.
The spokesman, Special Agent Thomas Ahern, said guns linked to Wisch were
also used in separate armed robberies in Chicago and Skokie, and by
juveniles in a variety of crimes.
One 9 mm pistol sold by Wisch was recovered in October 1998 from a
15-year-old gang member selling narcotics, the ATF previously said.
One of the phony names Wisch listed on the required forms as the buyer of
five guns turned out to be deceased at the time, Ahern said.
Authorities said Wisch operated his business out of his residence in Tinley
Park between 1990 and 1996 and then sold firearms from a gun shop called
KWGS in New Lenox until 1997.
Wisch acknowledged he conspired with two undisclosed individuals to conceal
their identities in the sale of the more than 60 firearms. The two then sold
the weapons to others. It is a criminal offense to make such straw purchases
on behalf of others who cannot legally obtain weapons.
Wisch pleaded guilty "blind," meaning he hadn't worked out a plea deal with
prosecutors. He could be sentenced to about 2 to 4 years in prison.
In what prosecutors promised would be a concerted effort to reduce rampant
gun violence, Wisch was among five former or current suburban gun-shop
operators to be indicted in an unprecedented crackdown last August.
The effort has had spotty results so far.
In July, a federal jury convicted two employees of an Oak Lawn gun shop as
well as its corporate owner, B&H Sports, of illegally selling assault-style
weapons and semiautomatic pistols to undercover Chicago police officers
posing as gang members.
But two separate juries acquitted the owner of a Melrose Park gun shop as
well as a Franklin Park gun shop and one of its clerks on charges stemming
from the same undercover Chicago operation.
Darell? Daarrrreeeellll???Where'd he go? Alright, we know, but you have to give him credit for one thing, he stuck it out in the face of pure logic and truth longer than any liberal I've ever seen. Good job Darrell.(whatever) Anyway, to the rest of you,Delta,Gunny, everybody (except KGB Darrell) I commend you for presenting a very thoughtful, well informed, and informative argument. And remember, to a liberal, the truth is a lie, and a lie is the truth (Clintonian Rule #1) So don't be frustrated when you can't make one see the light. Do not be diswayed from the "Good" fight when you are in the right. And do be prepared to take that next step. If we give up, and give in like so many have done, our legacy for our children will be that we allowed the evil (liberalism: no morals, just rules stacked upon rules negating their importance) that is enveloping our great country to flourish and go unchecked until it was too late and their was no freedom left. We can fix it and we must, or be looked upon as " the cowards who did nothing, but stood by and let it happen". We owe it to our children, I owe it to your children, you owe it to mine, we owe it to all who came before and were not cowards, to stop this aggressive campaign against freedom, and honest, moral freedom loving people. It's not too late, but it's getting close. God bless us and aid us in this struggle, one that will shape future for many generations to come, because without His guidance, we will surely fail at the task He has given us. You all know what I'm talking about. One last thing, I'm so grateful for people like you, who refuse to put on the blinders and remain with the "status quo". Thanks
In response to "drobbs's" article on the gun dealer with no brain, this guy is either a liberal plant to further their agenda or he's one brain cell in excess of swinging from a tree and picking the bugs off of his buddy for breakfast...
quote:What movie was this in? I'd love a date, location and names. BATF doesn't have the manpower unless they have had a good solid lead the shop is up to some monkey business. And that is a BAD example..real bad.
What is the Chicago Anti Gun Enforcement(CAGE)?
To quote their website:
"In the City of Chicago, there is a joint task force of Chicago Police Officers and Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms (ATF) Agents who are proactively investigating illegal weapons trafficking. Together they have established the Chicago Anti-Gun Enforcement (C.A.G.E.) Team."
YOU can now help the Chicago Police Department's C.A.G.E. Team curb the flow of illegal guns onto city streets by calling the toll-free hotline at (877) CPD-GUNS [(877) 273-4867] or using the anonymous gun tip form below.
Both methods will allow you to provide anonymous information regarding the illegal purchase, possession, distribution or sale of guns in your community 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. YOu do not need to give your name, phone number, or e-mail address to leave a message or submit this form.
TextI have aquired the "Second Revised Edition 2002" of the Federal Criminal Code and Rules. This Puppy has 1719 pages of Laws and Rules (I guess, Laws and Rules are the same thing?), and we (that's you and I) are subject to every one of them. Now! Consider: This Revised Second Edition supercedes the 2002 edition, and the 2002 Revised Edition. (ARE YOU WITH ME SO FAR?) Please; Will the first person that lives within these "Laws/Rules" (or even understands them) Step forward? (That includes any Government Agents, Judges, or Felons). >I'll be waiting for all of the replies<
Larry i can feel where you are comming from.On 3-6-03 we were convictied of felony cahrges of straw purcheses.
The government said "we should have known better". the perps all got 2 years probation and 40 hours community service, and we are looking at 30 years and 1,500,000 in fines. this is the first time a dealer has been convicted of felony for this crime. This is a sad day. My father is 68 years old, former U.S.M.C. retired from genral motors and ccw holder for 25 years.Now a fellon because he should have known better.Our appeal will be in the cincinaty fedral court of appeals.I will keep every one posted. And good luck Larry.
Thanks,
Shannon Carney
$1.5 million in fines. What kind of sh*t is that??? Nothing like getting busted for victimless crimes. Maybe this is the criminal version of a frivilous law suit.
Death to Tyrants!!!
Those who would offer any interpretation that would relegate Amendment II to "relic" status of a bygone era are blatantly stating that the remainder of the Bill of Rights isn't worth a damn, either.
The Do's And Don't's = Do not carry a handgun in the console of your car (State of Kentucky), Lay the handgun on the seat in plain open sight (Louisiana). Do not have a Rifle with a Bayonet Lug (unless it is pre-ban). Do not have a .410 pistol with a barrel less than 18"(even if the pistol is a Curio and Relic, originally made that way). Do not have a gun with the barrel lengh under 18" with a shoulder stock. Do not purchase a gun to give to your Father, Brother, Uncle, Best Friend, Wife, Sister, etc. etc. etc. This would constitute a "Straw Purchase". Do not sell guns at the Flea Market or Gun Shows, if you Deal Guns for a living or occupation, (Except if you work gun sales at Wal-Mart). Do not shoot anyone breaking into your home (unless you can prove beyond reasonable doubt, that person wished to do you * harm)(and was equipted to do so). Do not have a Magazine holding more than 10 rounds, (if the magazine holds more than 10 rounds, it is obvious you intend to harm someone). Do not Modify any gun in any way, (Federal Firearm Rules are for your protection, and Modifying a weapon would require a Manifactures License)Because you are of a Potentially Dangerous Species and .001% of the population has been known to harm themselves or another. If anyone owns or posesses an Assault Rifle we must assume that person plans to assault someone or something. The definition of an Assault Rifle has not been clearly stated as of yet[8]? An M1A Springfield rifle in .308 caliber is an assault rifle, the Remington 7400 Semi Auto Rifle .308 is not an Assault Rifle (altho a Remington 30-06 was used to kill Martin Luther King). The Semi Auto Pistol is not considered to be an Assault Weapon, (yet a 22 pistol was used to Kill Robert Kennedy). The 22 revolver is not considered an Assualt Weapon, (yet Ronald Regan and Bob Brady was shot with a 22 pistol). The 6.5 Carcano Rifle could or could not be considered an Assualt Weapon, but few if any Knowledgable American believes JFK was shot with such a rifle. The 38 S&W model 36 is not considered an Assault Weapon, but a simular weapon was used to Kill Lee Harvey Oswald. Now we can expect the Department of Transportation to affiliate with the ATF, (most vehicles being 7 feet wide, The Department of Transportation can start moving the lane spacing into 7' 6") (try keeping between those lines)if one were to cross the line, he/she can expect to be chastised and/or be inprisoned (long enough to rehabilitate them, or show them the error of their ways). Ridiculous! One may say? Really? Does anyone think they now have more or less Freedom than when subject to the British prior to 1776?[:(!]
Comments
You know, the KGB and Secret Service were not legislative bureaus, either. They were the executors of malevolent law-makers. Maybe you need to look in a civics book, and preferably not one of those that has the truth revised out of it due to political correctness. No one needs that kind of education.
Death to Tyrants!!!
Jesus Christ believed in the right to keep and bear arms, Luke 22:36.
-Gunphreak
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
ALL OF THEM!!!!
So many of them are arbitrary to others in the same system of laws.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
In your uneducated OPINION. You sound like a burned out hippie from the 60's trying to justify changes in drug laws.
Meanwhile, most of us do not, all by themselves have the clout to fight it out in court, so we * to our representatives,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Seems odd you left out VOTING isn't it? Civics 101. Oh now you will bring it up since I mentioned it. email me your full name and the county you live in. Voter registration records are PUBLIC. I think I know how this will play out. YOUR TURN.
Hydrich, Himmler, Goering, Eichman, would be the type Darrell would be attracted too. The "Go Along - Get along" Hurrah for me and to hell with you concept!
Ronnie G. Perkins
Hydrich, Himmler, Goering, Eichman, would be the type Darrell would be attracted too. The "Go Along - Get along" Hurrah for me and to hell with you concept!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I am a rable rouser of the first order. Rather that sit around the bar and look for others for reinforcement and *, I do something about it. Weather it's just a VOTE (you never do admit to such an act) to running for office at the city level a few years ago or aiding my wife in doing so last year for the city council of Minneapolis. I'm sure you never ran for any office. that would be WORK. Toss in my constant confrontation of government types on radio/TV in a MAJOR market and endless published articles I've done my share. So far you have not mentioned ONE thing you have done but *. Well? YOUR TURN!!!
I have aided in the DEFENSE of people charged with unjust crimes among other things included at NO CHARGE. Looking over YOUR posts from the start all you do is *.
If voting could change anything, it would be illegal.
It would appear in your self righteous know it all opinion you haven't looked past the nose on your face to see you have been deceived. Run for office... yeah, there's a real solution. Unless it is the Presidency you speak of, it is as futile as everything else. That is why I have banded together with others to accomplish it. If voting is our only weapon... consider us defenseless.
Death to Tyrants!!!
Those who would offer any interpretation that would relegate Amendment II to "relic" status of a bygone era are blatantly stating that the remainder of the Bill of Rights isn't worth a damn, either.
Luke 22:36.
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Then your new wife "Bubba" will explain it to you. Next you will claim you joined a militia. That might work. Only about a THIRD of the members are federal agents. Odds are in YOUR favor.
I haven't said a thing about raising arms, and I am saying I have banded together with organizations, like OFCC, JPFO and Gun Owners of America. Nothing illegal about any of that. The only way I will be imprisoned is by violation of an IMAGINARY or ARBITRARY law. By no other means... I can promise you that.
Death to Tyrants!!!
Those who would offer any interpretation that would relegate Amendment II to "relic" status of a bygone era are blatantly stating that the remainder of the Bill of Rights isn't worth a damn, either.
Luke 22:36.
True: The Constitution should not be re-interpreted for light or transient causes. (Micro Management because of Social Trends). The ATF hasn't considered: The conglomeration of Rules and Regulations may be the root cause of our Social problems. In other words= "If you are not part of the cure ~ you are part of the problem". The facts as they are: Through Liberal thinking and Micro-management, the "People" are rendered Powerless, Complacient, Rebelious, or Totally Detatched from their Government. Society breaks under the weight of its own, constantantly expanding and conflicting rules. Trusting Government is the Peoples first mistake. "Power corupts ~ Absolute Power = Corupts Absolutly".
Ronnie G. Perkins
Cheers Ronnie[:D]
-Gunphreak
Death to Tyrants!!!
Those who would offer any interpretation that would relegate Amendment II to "relic" status of a bygone era are blatantly stating that the remainder of the Bill of Rights isn't worth a damn, either.
Luke 22:36.
Holding a bible, ask any ATF agent to swear on it that he nor any other agent he has ever seen, has NEVER broken any law nor gave false testimony! Look in their eyes and watch their FEAR of swearing on the bible. Many will swear and lie, but their eyes will betray them!
Nuff Said-
Bootleg
quote:Originally posted by gunphreak
I'll go along with that, Ronnie. My "Not so education" came from the school of Thomas Jefferson, not William Jefferson. They didn't trust a governmental system with total power anymore than we should. Power does indded corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. I like that. Quite possibly the most enlightening thing in this entire thread.
Cheers Ronnie[:D]
-Gunphreak
Death to Tyrants!!!
Those who would offer any interpretation that would relegate Amendment II to "relic" status of a bygone era are blatantly stating that the remainder of the Bill of Rights isn't worth a damn, either.
Luke 22:36.
Ronnie
"We have become slaves to our Public Servants", they entered our lives as guest, soon became our host, then eventually our Masters.
Ronnie G. Perkins
Propaganda doesn't work on me....
Death to Tyrants!!!
Those who would offer any interpretation that would relegate Amendment II to "relic" status of a bygone era are blatantly stating that the remainder of the Bill of Rights isn't worth a damn, either.
Luke 22:36.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
What office? Please fill me in. It's public record. What's to hide. My wife ran for Minneapolis City council and it's a BIG town of 400,000. Avg council candidate spent $20,000. CHUMP CHANGE by any standard. Many have won state offices here fo rfar less. Running on the klan or militia ticket does limit your chances and finding is hard to find. Those types seldom have a dime.
One of the things I find most irritating; 58,000 can die in Vietnam and it's no big deal, yet when 1 Press Secretary gets shot = We change the Constitution. JFK was not shot with an assualt rifle, Robert was shot with a 22 pistol, Brady & Regan was shot with a 22 pistol, Martin was supposedly shot with a 30-06 hunting rifle. I fail to see why a Bayonet lug on an AR rifle makes it so dangerous? Enough rules and regulations; You have to be breaking one of them. At 17 years old, I carried an M-14 in service of my country, (it had a bayonet lug). Where the hell was the BATF or Sarah Brady at the time?
Ronnie G. Perkins
Death to Tyrants!!!
Those who would offer any interpretation that would relegate Amendment II to "relic" status of a bygone era are blatantly stating that the remainder of the Bill of Rights isn't worth a damn, either.
Luke 22:36.
There may come a day in the near future, a day when the American Sportsman, Hunter, Shooter, Militant, will have to take a stand. The American Public labors under varying opinions, some believing the Constitution is outdated, some believing the Constitution should vary with the occasion. I have lived 58 years under this Constitution, I was taught to believe in it. Now we are told not to believe because the Constitution suffers to interpitation? Websters definition of "Variable"; Subject to variation, subject to change, FICKLE. My question to our Government: If we are not to believe in the Constitution; what do we believe in? Should we ask Brady, Clinton, Schumer, Franks, Rosie, to write us another Constitution? One of which they personally approve?
Declaration of Independence: "Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light or transient causes; and that accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they have become accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object envinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, their duty, to throw off such Government and to provide new Guards for their future security"
Ronnie G. Perkins
It's time to give up on America as we know it. Quit bickering about this law and that law. This is NOT the country I wanted to protect when I JOINED the service back in '68. It's time for a New America! Won't someone capable (I admitt, I am not) step forward and lead the way?
Oh, and by the way, Jesus Christ was considered a criminal, and was put to death for his crimes.
How about ATF BREAKING laws? If you're a gun dealer then you should know that the 68 GCA states that gun dealer records will not be used to make a registration or database of firearms or firearm owners. It also says that out of business dealer records will go to a "dead records" repository. Under Clintons watch all the records were moved and the 4473's have been scanned into a database. An official for the ATF told their appropriations committee that they would not stop scanning in the 4473's, even if a federal judge issues an injuction, because "We have a mandate from the President".
Have you ever heard of "Operation forward trace'? When the ATF illegally started collecting info on who bought semi-auto firearms while they were doing compliance inspections of dealer records?
I noticed earlier in this post, in my "uneducated opinion" about how I was probably a hippie from the 60's trying to justify drug laws. What the hell is that supposed to be all about anyways? I have no interest in the drug laws of this country, because I don't do them. No where in our Constitution is there any guarantee of legal drug use. It does, however, cover the right to Keep and Bear Arms, among other things. Why would anyone who posts here give a damn about drug laws, anyways??
Death to Tyrants!!!
Those who would offer any interpretation that would relegate Amendment II to "relic" status of a bygone era are blatantly stating that the remainder of the Bill of Rights isn't worth a damn, either.
Luke 22:36.
They use a little mind control technique that gets people to relate one thing to another. It's like after the OKC Federal building bombing, CNN would always have a picture of an AR-15 type or AK-47 type rifle in the background. Does that have anything to do with blowing up a building? NO. But it does have a tendency to make some people equate firearms to terrorist.
I bet his hopes is that by branding you with the hippie/druggie label, he can make other people equate Patriotism with criminal behavior.
Death to Tyrants!!!
Those who would offer any interpretation that would relegate Amendment II to "relic" status of a bygone era are blatantly stating that the remainder of the Bill of Rights isn't worth a damn, either.
Luke 22:36.
The structure is set, you never change it with a ballot poll.
Give me my rights,
liberty and freedom, or give me some time to stock up on ammo.
Give me my rights,
liberty and freedom, or give me some time to stock up on ammo.
Like I said, it's time for a New America...
Death to Tyrants!!!
Those who would offer any interpretation that would relegate Amendment II to "relic" status of a bygone era are blatantly stating that the remainder of the Bill of Rights isn't worth a damn, either.
Luke 22:36.
I do get a little sick of people saying "It's too big for us to change", Sarah Brady didn't say that. Our predicament can only be changed by Resolve and Determination. (something the American Public finds lacking these days).
I Believe what Thomas Jefferson said, "It is the kind of protection we receive in return for the "Rights" we give up? Besides the Spirit of the times may alter, will alter. Our Rulers will beccome corrupt, our People careless. A single Zealot may commence persecutor, and better men be his victims. It can never be too often repeated, that the time for fixing every Essential Right on a Legal basis is while our rulers are honest and ourselves UNITED".~ "This Government, the worlds best hope, may by possibility want energy to preserve itself?"
Ronnie G. Perkins
Let's go back to those days....
Death to Tyrants!!!
Those who would offer any interpretation that would relegate Amendment II to "relic" status of a bygone era are blatantly stating that the remainder of the Bill of Rights isn't worth a damn, either.
Luke 22:36.
Ronnie G. Perkins
Death to Tyrants!!!
Those who would offer any interpretation that would relegate Amendment II to "relic" status of a bygone era are blatantly stating that the remainder of the Bill of Rights isn't worth a damn, either.
Luke 22:36.
Ronnie G. Perkins
The structure is set, you never change it with a ballot poll.
Give me my rights,
liberty and freedom, or give me some time to stock up on ammo.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Darell this happens all the time here in Illinois but it's not the BATF it's the Chicago CAGE unit, short for Chicago Anti Gun Enforcement unit. Who do you think prosecutes these gunshops? It's not the Chicago Police Department!
http://ojjdp.ncjrs.org/pubs/gun_violence/profile11.html
**********************
Also below:
Title: Suburban Gun Dealer Guilty Of Illegal Sales
Chicago Tribune
29 August 2000
By Matt O'Connor
A former suburban gun-shop operator admitted Monday to illegally selling
dozens of weapons-including several that authorities said were later used in
three killings, two armed robberies and other felony offenses.
Kenneth Wisch, 49, of New Lenox pleaded guilty to a 22-count indictment,
becoming the second suburban gun dealer to be convicted in U.S. District
Court since a federal crackdown over the last year on so-called straw gun
sales locally.
Wisch admitted he lied on required federal forms about the identity of the
real buyers while selling more than 60 handguns between 1993 and early 1997.
Assistant U.S. Atty. Amy St. Eve said in court that prosecutors will seek a
stiffer sentence for Wisch because he had reason to believe the firearms
would be used in felony offenses.
Wisch's lawyer, James W. Reilley, disputed the allegation.
A spokesman for the U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms said
investigators traced weapons illegally sold by Wisch to three killings-a
January 1995 bar fight in Harvey, a gang-related hit on Chicago's North Side
in 1997 and a shooting in Texas.
The spokesman, Special Agent Thomas Ahern, said guns linked to Wisch were
also used in separate armed robberies in Chicago and Skokie, and by
juveniles in a variety of crimes.
One 9 mm pistol sold by Wisch was recovered in October 1998 from a
15-year-old gang member selling narcotics, the ATF previously said.
One of the phony names Wisch listed on the required forms as the buyer of
five guns turned out to be deceased at the time, Ahern said.
Authorities said Wisch operated his business out of his residence in Tinley
Park between 1990 and 1996 and then sold firearms from a gun shop called
KWGS in New Lenox until 1997.
Wisch acknowledged he conspired with two undisclosed individuals to conceal
their identities in the sale of the more than 60 firearms. The two then sold
the weapons to others. It is a criminal offense to make such straw purchases
on behalf of others who cannot legally obtain weapons.
Wisch pleaded guilty "blind," meaning he hadn't worked out a plea deal with
prosecutors. He could be sentenced to about 2 to 4 years in prison.
In what prosecutors promised would be a concerted effort to reduce rampant
gun violence, Wisch was among five former or current suburban gun-shop
operators to be indicted in an unprecedented crackdown last August.
The effort has had spotty results so far.
In July, a federal jury convicted two employees of an Oak Lawn gun shop as
well as its corporate owner, B&H Sports, of illegally selling assault-style
weapons and semiautomatic pistols to undercover Chicago police officers
posing as gang members.
But two separate juries acquitted the owner of a Melrose Park gun shop as
well as a Franklin Park gun shop and one of its clerks on charges stemming
from the same undercover Chicago operation.
At least six other individuals who made straw purchases of firearms from the
suburban gun shops have pleaded guilty as part of the investigation.
http://www.nisat.org/blackmarket/north_america/united_states/united_states_of_america/2000.08.29-Suburban%20Gun%20Dealer%20Guilty%20Of%20Illegal%20Sales.html
Regards,
FREE IRAQ
quote:What movie was this in? I'd love a date, location and names. BATF doesn't have the manpower unless they have had a good solid lead the shop is up to some monkey business. And that is a BAD example..real bad.
What is the Chicago Anti Gun Enforcement(CAGE)?
To quote their website:
"In the City of Chicago, there is a joint task force of Chicago Police Officers and Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms (ATF) Agents who are proactively investigating illegal weapons trafficking. Together they have established the Chicago Anti-Gun Enforcement (C.A.G.E.) Team."
I think you all should look at their website: http://w5.ci.chi.il.us./cp/FightCrime/Forms/Guns.html
YOU can now help the Chicago Police Department's C.A.G.E. Team curb the flow of illegal guns onto city streets by calling the toll-free hotline at (877) CPD-GUNS [(877) 273-4867] or using the anonymous gun tip form below.
Both methods will allow you to provide anonymous information regarding the illegal purchase, possession, distribution or sale of guns in your community 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. YOu do not need to give your name, phone number, or e-mail address to leave a message or submit this form.
Check out http://w5.ci.chi.il.us./cp/AboutCPD/CAGETeam.html to hear the successes of the CAGE unit working with the BATF.
Regards,
FREE IRAQ
Ronnie G. Perkins
The government said "we should have known better". the perps all got 2 years probation and 40 hours community service, and we are looking at 30 years and 1,500,000 in fines. this is the first time a dealer has been convicted of felony for this crime. This is a sad day. My father is 68 years old, former U.S.M.C. retired from genral motors and ccw holder for 25 years.Now a fellon because he should have known better.Our appeal will be in the cincinaty fedral court of appeals.I will keep every one posted. And good luck Larry.
Thanks,
Shannon Carney
I love my country,but fear my government!
To whom much is given, much is expected.
$1.5 million in fines. What kind of sh*t is that??? Nothing like getting busted for victimless crimes. Maybe this is the criminal version of a frivilous law suit.
Death to Tyrants!!!
Those who would offer any interpretation that would relegate Amendment II to "relic" status of a bygone era are blatantly stating that the remainder of the Bill of Rights isn't worth a damn, either.
Luke 22:36.
Ronnie G. Perkins