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Maybe we can create a pro-gun clone army, like in Star Wars!
MOΛΩN ΛABE
"If ever time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced Patriots to prevent its ruin."
-Samuel Adams, Patriot/Brewer
Yeah, just out of curiosity, where does '72 post? Can't be too careful infiltraters are everywhere.[;)] I kind of feel a little misled but something tells me that was your intention[8]. I'm glad you came by to visit and to add your support, please understand my uneasiness it is always warranted. Yah just never know now days.[:0][xx(]
I am a Jack of all trades..master of one..and the thing I master's called havin' fun..I got three minutes left to rock this funk..to seperate the good stuff from the junk..soooo...get in the groove and feel the sound once you're inside spread yourself around..from the bottom to the top.a top a to the bottom..come on master G and get funky while we got 'em..ba..bawdabop.bawdabawda..bawpbawda.bopbawdabawda [:o)]
Name that tune...hell it's been a long day I'm entitled.
Neo-Jedi Council
Naboo Sniper
There are two kinds of people in this World....Those who lead....and those who get the hell out of the way...GUT CHECK!...Which one are you?
Comengetit
Yeah, just out of curiosity, where does '72 post? Can't be too careful infiltraters are everywhere. I kind of feel a little misled but something tells me that was your intention . I'm glad you came by to visit and to add your support, please understand my uneasiness it is always warranted. Yah just never know now days.
I don't speak for `72. Or give out his personal information. I guess you'll have to find that out for your self. But, I assure you neither He Nor I are "infiltrators". Isn't it odd the way everyone automatically assumes that the goo in soap dispensers is always soap? I like to fill mine with mustard, just to teach people a valuable lesson in trust.
I was drawn here out of curiosity and after doing a lot of reading decided to register and post. I spent 26 years of my life defending your right to free speech so don't try to squash mine here. I WILL NOT get into a "debate" with you over who's right or who's wrong. As quikdraw67 said it's my opinion. Respect it as I respect yours. We are both on the same side of the 2nd amendment issue. So, you need not mark your territory with me as you did with someone else (Rapidfire - maybe) I read posts on. You seem to be educated, capable of expressing yourself in an organized manner, well versed on constitutional rights and passionate in your beliefs. I admire that, however, there is no room in this movement for HOTHEADS. Yes I said HOTHEADS. (It's the image you portray and not my imagination nor an opinion - at this point you are not GOD's Gift to the gun rights movement). Vanity, Ego and Paranoia seem to get in your way as well. A little advice would be to learn to control your emotions (NEVER let them see you sweat). You would be sooo much more effective. In my "opinion" you are wasting you knowledge, talent and passion bickering with like-minded gun owners on a forum where everyone believes in 2nd amendment rights. I'm not saying drop out but I am saying you should "Carry that passion on to a wider venue, practice restraint and Get h'r Done"
I'm not picking on you, but, you do seem to be the most vocal of the group and you could be a real asset to the gun rights movement with a little polish. Face it; "Radicals" are dismissed immediately by most American's (including gun owners). IF you could harness that energy and passion, and with some self-grooming (identifying your weaknesses - i.e. temper etc.) practiced restraint and the proper forum, I feel you could be a major player in the fight against the anti's. Right now you come off as a radical. That's not good.
I only know about you what you have written; in your own words. (First impressions) Think about it. (Do I sound like some kind of whacko or radical???) Read your own posts. Don't waste the knowledge or passion on an ego trip.
I still like the movie/series idea but I think you can handle that and good luck. It is a better out-let for your anger and passion, if done right.
Again; I have the same right to freedom of speech as you do and am exercising it now, so, don't expect me to demean myself by getting into a P N contest with you over this post. Likewise, I would not like to see you respond with animosity, diminishing yourself. Take it as constructive criticism and deal with it.
I'd be willing to bet the people in your `Neighborhood" consider you some kind of radical, vise a patriotic "Gun Rights" advocate. Image does mean something. Think about it!!! BEFORE, you try to represent the rest of the "Gun Owners and Hunters" of AMERICA.
Everyone has one!!! Thank you, hope any animosity has been overcome and we can get on the same page.
"Whenever I go walking in the forest I like to stop now and then and build a small pile of rocks. You can never be too prepared for a rock throwing contest."
quote:If you are referring to my post: I referenced "Starman" not "Starwars" But, the cloning idea does have appeal.
Actually I was just referring to the proliferation of the name "quickdraw" on this forum.
Now I will sit back and watch the fireworks, as you have just lit a bunch of fuses, quickdrawspop.
[:D]
And yes, I do vote.
MOΛΩN ΛABE
"If ever time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced Patriots to prevent its ruin."
-Samuel Adams, Patriot/Brewer
That's the idea. Get you up off your backside and move you to something more productive than squabbling'/bragging amongst your selves. It's such a waste.
Trolls live under bridges. I live an open book. Come visit sometime.
I judge no man. I only offer constructive criticism. Be man enough to take it or let it be. Not here to make waves. Just exercising MY freedom.
QDPOPS;
Obviously you know little about the 'pro-gun' movement. Else you wouldn't make the statement.. quote:talent and passion bickering with like-minded gun owners on a forum where everyone believes in 2nd amendment rights.
The PROBLEM, you see..is that Pro-NRA supporters..and about 80 percent of gun owners...ARE NOT PRO-SECOND AMENDMENT...they just THINK they are. They think that because they are used to being told what to think by the leadership of the NRA....
When one cannot even get get gun owners to understand that the proper response to criminal gun violence is swift, sure punishment of the perpetrator...and NOT the gun...OR decent citizens...how the hell do you suppose we have a chance to educate the great unwashed masses of people that have never touched a gun...?
How, indeed..except to come to a "Pro-Gun" board and attempt to educate "Pro-Gunners" ?...
Save your labels. I have been labeled by experts. I remain uninpressed. Some of us have tried your procedures. Those procedures have gotten free men 20,000 gun laws. You and the NRA are failures. The sooner you understand that..the sooner you can look beyond the failures to the solution.
The only reason I asked who quikdraw72 was, is because you said, "ACTUALLY I am quikdraw72's pop" which kind of gives the connotation that "we here" should know who that is. There is no one registered here under that name.....thus the question. No big deal.
OK guys, let's all take a deep breath. I appreciate the back-up but I think I got it from here. I'm probably going to shock everyone here by not blowing a gasket. Why should I, he's right. The only thing that you missed in your observations is that the majority of the time I knowingly do that. This forum (gun rights) is right where I want to be, I love the guys and they're all very intelligent. What happens when you have maybe 10-12 people discussing the same things day after day? People get bored and lethargic. I try and identify that and if need be make some waves, so far I'd say it has proven to be fairly effective.
I respect your right to your opinion, I even respect your right to voice it here. I will say this for someone who wishes to give constructive criticism, I hope you can take it as well. I think you crossed the line with the "God to gun rights" thing and you most definitely did with how my neighbors view me. I think you'd be surprised. I will heed your criticisms and take notice of those points I feel are valid. Your right, I do have passion and I think it's harnessed pretty well but at times can get away from me.
I think your mistake was in assuming that I would fly off the handle, throwing buzz words at me like ego, temper, radical don't bother me in the slightest. I know who I am and know what it is we're trying to accomplish here with all these guys. Now you've said your piece and to be really honest you show a little of the faults that you say I possess. I was merely asking a question to see what kind of answer I would get, I feel you came off very defensive and then began an attack upon me. I know it was constructive criticism, but Highball, WW, and Quikdraw saw the same thing I did. I'm never to old to listen to advice but I'll never be so young as to have someone lecture me. It's a fine line and you were toeing it but all is good. Now with all that out of the way, what's for supper? Err..ah..I mean what is the topic of the evening?
Let's give him the benefit of the doubt here, if he's a troll it won't take long to know but I think he has something to offer here. Welcome aboard qwikdrawspop.
And hell yes, I vote! I think it should be mandatory of all American citizens.
I would like to have a couple specific examples as to your criticisms. And for the record, select-fire started that whole fiasco but I think we walked away as 2A supporters and hold no animosity towards one another. At least I don't.
Neo-Jedi Council
Naboo Sniper
There are two kinds of people in this World....Those who lead....and those who get the hell out of the way...GUT CHECK!...Which one are you?
Granted, I may not know as much as you think you do about the 'pro-gun' movement. I have in no manner tried to put a label on you up to this point but suffering from a streak of arrogance myself, I will say that it is awfully arrogant to refer to the rest of gun owners as "The Unwashed Masses" and try to lead me to believe that a forum of a dozen or so people on an obscure website can do more to educate and inform the public than organizations like the NRA. Although they are not at the top of my list, they do lobby for gun rights and have been instrumental in squashing some really insane bills.
FACTOID: (Old stats but still relevant to my argument)
LOBBYING:
* The National Rifle Association is the largest gun rights lobbying organization in the United States. From 1997 through 1998, their political action committee gave $1,330,111 to Republicans and $285,700 to Democrats.
* Handgun Control, Inc. is the largest gun control lobbying organization in the United States. From 1997 through 1998, their political action committee gave $136,892 to Democrats and $9,500 to Republicans. (11)
Other organizations with a national audience (NWTH, NWA, SCI, and SAF To name a few) are as or more vocal in promoting gun rights, ownership and hunting. You see, I am just as interested in keeping my right to hunt as I am in being able to own my High capacity clips and those firearms Not designed for hunting. It all goes together. If the Democrats had their way, the "Unwashed Masses" would probably be hiding out their single shots. Can you say you had anything to do with killing that??? Unimpressed?? YES, I am as well. I don't want to get into a PN contest with you cause I'm not THAT open-minded but to date I have not read anything you have posted that would make me come take a bath with you. If you think sitting there on an obscure web site preaching/dictating YOUR philosophical views to the "Unwashed" makes you useful, knock yourself out. It's a free country. I am not taking anything away form what you do here but it's limited to the few.. Sign me "Still Unwashed".
You are right. Sorry for the confusion. Quikdraws are not limited to posting on gun sites and there are quite a few out there. I did not know that when I took the handle but I'm not dropping it. No harm, No foul. YES, I vote (every election Local, State and National) and encourage everyone to register and VOTE. I feel if you don't vote you have no right to complain about the laws that make their way to our doorstep.
Sorry for the delay in my response but I do have other interests that take/require my time and attention. Sometimes disappear for days. No worry.
No personal attack intended, and I assume nothing. I never would of registered or logged on here if I were not looking for something. You, quite frankly, are the only reason I did. Not to start a rock fight but to explore other venues. Being new to the site I did a lot of reading on different forums and settled here. If you want examples of what I referred to, go back and read some of your own posts. My words came from "First Impressions" as an outsider looking in. As intelligent and articulate as you are, you COULD HAVE shut down "select-fire" in one line. It makes no difference WHO started it. Instead you allowed him to drag you down and diminished yourself on at least two sites. Anyone new to the sites will see that and the outcome is irrelevant to most. Bickering just doesn't cut it. Learn to pick your fights and stack your odds. Enough said about that.
I see a lot of me in you. I'm just not as articulate and restrained. I just don't know when to keep my mouth shut (or practice what I preach) because I just cannot go with the flow in most cases. You are right; I do have my share of faults as well, Probably MORE than you. Just don't seem to fit the mold society has presumed acceptable. Kind of a square peg forced into a round hole, kind of thing. Never been accused of being tactful or charming either. More like blunt, arrogant, opinionated and obstinate but; Honest. I think I've been exposed to a lot more criticism than most and, yes, I can, take it. Let me just say it has made me a better and stronger person. But, let me also add that I am not the Moderator for a "Pro Gun" web site or as vocal on as many venues, so, it's not as obvious to the general public or visitors to this site.
I tested the water here, walked that fine line as you say, even crossed it (sorry about that) ruffled some feathers and Po'ed some of the group. Found out what I wanted to know anyway. Impressed with your response. That is not from a defensive posture but one impressed by your restraint at what you (and others) perceived as a personal attack. It really was not. You are well deserved of leadership status here but I take back nothing I said about your style or the "buzz words" used, I feel that was an honest evaluation.
The comment about your neighbors deserves some explanation. I'll TRY. The picture you posted with your profile (vanity shot for sure) puts you in Hawaii, Arizona or Florida, and Living a suburban life. As one who dropped out (Completely Disillusioned by the way this country has been sold out by Career Politicians intent on killing off the very soul of the common man and controlling every aspect of his life, the dumbing down of the educational system, money hungry people who are intent on separating you from anything you could call yours etc. etc. etc,: Makes me wonder if my career option was worth it. Hence my rep. as The Hermit), 11 years ago and lived off the land without the benefit of modern conveniences (3 or 4 times a years I did go to town for supplies) for 10 before I made an attempt at reentry into society but then only because of encroachment by the money hunger developers destroying the very habitat I depended on. I still live that way even though I have since built a house. (What a Mistake that was) I wondered how you could list yourself as a survivalist? My neighbors (none real close yet) still see me as some sort of extremist, so like as not, logic would invoke a similar response in suburbia. I was just curios. (Do you sense a lot of frustration here??) Give me a time machine and send me back 150 years.
I don't have intention of lecturing to you and don't like it myself. Reeks of a holier than thou attitude. People like me that live in glass houses should not throw stones. I just like a good rock fight now and then. If the guy's get bored and lethargic makin' waves is right up my alley.
Ditto: Voting Should be MANDATORY for all American citizens.
This IS my last volley (I hope). Now that the formal introductions are over and we love each other, what's on the agenda pertaining to GUN RIGHTS and the proliferation of said rights ????
As a parting thought: Something for you to chew on. Someone on one of these sites suggested taking a 10 year old out and teach him to shoot. In 8 years he would be able to vote against these silly gun laws. Although I do agree with this (albeit not enough and probably too late) and the future of gun rights will be determined (in some manner) by todays youth, the obvious is being overlooked. WOMEN. Women determine wheither these youngsters will be exposed, wheither guns are allowed.in the house and they are the most vocal of the anti's. Are there any women members of this forum???? Oh, and I wouldn't let anyone refer to them as "UNWASHED". It might not go over very well. Think about it. I'll be around.
quote:Originally posted by quikdrawspop
Are there any women members of this forum????
There are women on GB forums but not many.....as far as I know, none of them post on the "gun rights" board.....[:(]
You hit the nail on the head with your statement.....women shooters are critical. I try to teach as many women as I can to learn how to shoot......after all, her vote means as much as mine does
I would like to start by first saying, thank you. I know, if you are as like me as you say, that was somewhat difficult. Your comments have been both insightful and welcome. We all have our faults and, of course, I am no exception. I would like to think that I maintain some sense of balance in my thought process and that I emit said thoughts in a manner consistent with my intentions. At times we all have a tendancy to forget what we, as individuals, are all about. It is easy to be swayed in a different direction, one can only do his/her best to recognize these literary traps and avoid them with regularity. Having a propensity for flash and flare, it is quite often that I must reel myself in and reorganize my thoughts before proceeding. Occassionally I will fail.
The photo in my profile is nothing special, if it is seen as vain or egotistical, I will take that as a great compliment as I had no hidden agenda in placing that photo here. I think if you were to look through our family albums you would find, more often than not, that is just me being me. I won't apologize for that nor will I feel any sense of remorse for my posting of it here.
As far as my commrades in arms, I would go to bat for any one of these guys, as you have seen they would do it for me. They are sincere, insightful, and very intelligent, with qualities like these, what's not to like? My inspiration comes from each one of these folks, if it didn't I would have set up my own web site and post editorials and opinions. I find great reward in bringing the best someone has to offer out of their thoughts and expressed openly, here. Do I have an agenda? Yes, I have an agenda, I want to rid the world of vermin and slime that has corrupted the entire planet. You will find them everywhere. Isn't that an awful big task for one man to handle? If I were only one man this would be true but I am not alone, I consider myself to be a leader and as such it is my responsibility to gather like minded people so as to fight the "good" fight. These patriots that are here are the beginning of something big, I can't tell you what, but it will manifest itself over time and we shall see.
A survivalist, no, but I am studying intently as the necessity for such skills nears. I would love to live the way you described, I would probably have already shot at the developers, causing incarceration. I put that there because I think we all need to be, survivalists.
Your idea about targeting women is an avenue we have discussed, Highball had gone even further as to suggest the manner in which we accomplish this. I believe it is something to be pursued.
Are you sure you are referring to my little skirmish with select-fire or was it aglore? The latter needed that, he was entirely disrespectful and I didn't appreciate his comments. Thustly, I fought back. Sure I could have ended that little fracas sooner, but to be honest I was enjoying myself. I don't do it often, but when I do the gloves come off.
I have gone back and re-read several of my posts and I can see where you may read some of those faults coming to the surface, I would even agree that some of it is true, however, I didn't see anything that was to the degree you implied. But, that's all water over the dam and I, for one, am ready to get back to the task at hand so, what can you offer to our cause, whatever that may be[:D]. You wouldn't happen to be one of those extremely wealthy recluse types would you?[;)] We could sure use an influx of cash to make this bus start moving. I've been working on other things as of late but probably better get back to concentrating on fund-raising. As the driver of the bus, I feel it is my duty to raise funds. Unless of, of course, someone would like to step up and 'get ehr done![;)]
I look forward to your intellectual contributions.
-comengetit
Neo-Jedi Council
Naboo Sniper TROLL
There are two kinds of people in this World....Those who lead....and those who get the hell out of the way...GUT CHECK!...Which one are you?
Good Move. Sorry if I overstepped again but I'm NEW. Just useing terminology I learned on this site. (not fond of it either, denigrating isn't it). You can kill that Clinton look-alike and it would pleasure me.
Sorry, just a poor old countryboy makin' it day to day. Glad we are on the same page now but willing to do what I can. I would like to see Highballs idea (after all I was kind of rough on him) but, Honest.
NRA ? eDUCATING people ? Pardon me while I laugh a bit.
As long as one defines 'educating' as meaning.."Submit to authority..no matter WHAT"...then I will be forced to admit you are right.
Not ONE TIME...in 40 years..have I seen ANYTHING out of the NRA that actually gives the Founders position on firearms.
That position is quite simply..."When the meanies come to get the guns...FIGHT !!! "
Me...I would RATHER have the 5-10 people on this "Obscure little web site" that actually UNDERSTAND this...then 4 million NRA members that will line up to turn in their weapons....on MY side...
wHAT, PRAY TELL..is difficult to understand about gun control ?
Gun control is EVIL..and those engaged in supporting, enforcing,or drafting laws to futher that cause...are THEMSELVES evil...or willingly following evil.
Been waitin' on you to show up. Doin' a little giggle over here also. You need to take a chill pill. We do what we can in the manner we see fit. Like I said, make yourself useful to the cause in the best manner you know how. Although we differ in methodology we are both on the same side of the fence. I want my right to keep and bear arms, you want the same thing. You can put whatever spin on that you'd like. But, That IS the same side of the fence in my opinion. If you want to argue with that don't bring it back here to me. I've already explained my stance. I get the point and know where you come from. It's a free country and you can express yourself as you wish but the evil empire things been done and they lost.
Now, comeandgetit says you have an idea to bring in women and get them active in the movement. I'd like to hear your thoughts on the subject, as I have not seen such before.
I should have let Highball say that if he wanted to. So since I rolled him under the bus, so to speak, I will take this one.
The idea is a basic one, not to take away from it, women are generaly very much into self defense, so if we were to start self defense classes that incorporate the use and training of firearms we would slowly gain a portion of the people that we have so far overlooked. If that is not correct, Highball, please correct me.
Neo-Jedi Council
Naboo Sniper MWC '05TROLL
There are two kinds of people in this World....Those who lead....and those who get the hell out of the way...GUT CHECK!...Which one are you?
Woman ideas.
I don't have a magic bullet. However; The idea that the hand that rocks the cradle is the ONE hand that we better be courting is one thought of many years ago...and followed up on with any angle availible.
For many years I have attempted to train ANY woman willing to go to the range..and generally train 5-10 a year.Not many..? Perhaps..yet those women have friends..children..husbands and boyfriends.
Ny training is not santioned by the NRA..and probably would'nt be politically correct.
This discussion has been carried on here in this forum several times in the past, by the way.
Something I have incorporated since the advant of 'air-soft' look-alike guns..
After the demonstration of the destructive power of various rounds and the training...the 'graduation' for the day is to fire an airsoft into my leg (to demonstrate no injury)..then have them violate ALL my safety training by having them actually SHOOT ME with the 'airsoft'.
I generally pull on a black stocking cap and start a 'charge' from 20 feet for this demonstration.
The first time I did this...it took 3 TIMES to get the 40 year-old woman to actually pull the trigger...the innate resistance to pointing a gun at a man is tremendous...and such hesitation gets one VERY DEAD, in a crisis situation.
My opinions on this matter are many...such as..NEVER combine romance and training. DO NOT train your wife/girlfriend...unless you can rebuke her without straining the relationship beyond repair...UNSAFE gun handling will get firm, continual correction..until the raised voice takes over after repeated lapses of judgement...
For all you guys that are not up to date.
The NRA has been doing a good job training
the woman . Also woman shooting sports is
a fast growing segment now with clays and
self defence. How about the BOW programs
all over the country.We need them to win.[8D]
America is sick of the crap from the Government
and the internet hatches a sinister plot .
The porn industry has the ability to put it's junk
on every screen . Someone on the forum learns
how they do it and starts a news letter. This news
letter is to recruit all of us pro gun old farts that
are short timers to take some anti-gun zealot with
them when they go.
This old guy is at a town hall event , the anti-gun
DemocRAT or what ever, is trying to get his vote.
He is telling this guy how he is going to take all of
the money from the young people and give him free
meds for life.
The old guy pulls out his 12 ga sawed off pistol and
says I was young once and blows the crap for brains
liberal away.
After about a year of this going on all over the
country liberals are getting hard to find. No one
will admit to being that stupid any more.
LOL, that's rich. I love it but I don't think the people we're trying to get our point across to, those your old guys are blowing away, would understand that we are trying to help them. That message might be just a wee bit too strong.[;)] I will say this that took some serious imagination and I think you may be able to be the one that comes up with our plot. Keep working on it, glad to have you aboard. [;)]
There are two kinds of people in this World....Those who lead....and those who get the hell out of the way...GUT CHECK!...Which one are you?
Were the NRA to stay in their field..training civilian marksmen..I would have no quarrel with them.
Save one. That program would need to be run by people that have an uderstanding of exactly WHAT the Second Amendments' PURPOSE is...and it ain't duck hunting.
Part of the course NEEDS to include the reason for an armed militia in America...
Contrast that with a NRA president announcing he intends 'rifting all militia from the ranks of the NRA"...
What I am saying here is..WRONG training can be more deadly to rights then NO training at all....
quote:Contrast that with a NRA president announcing he intends 'rifting all militia from the ranks of the NRA"...
Highball would you please elaborate on this, I would really appreciate it.
As for the movie, where are the ideas? You guys all need to stay focussed or this will become nothing more than another unrealized statistic. Maybe we should start with, what are the key points we need to make? after we have determined what these are, we may then look at how to deliver said points and from this may come our story line. It must be provocative and entertaining, it must keep the audience focussed and lead them on a journey to discovery. If this is an insurmountable task or if you feel this can't be brought to fruition, by our group, then, by all means, speak up. How strongly do you feel about the 20,000+ gun laws being unconstitutional and yet still in place? How strongly do you feel about having to jump through hoops in order to be allowed to buy a gun, if you are allowed at all. If you start to lose interest in what it is we are trying to do, think about all of the injustices being done to you at the hands of crooked politicians. That'll make you remember why we're here.[;)]
Thanks for all of your support and input, we have yet begun to fight. This shall be a battle worth waging, I believe if the second amendment falls tyranny will reign supreme. In contrast, I believe if the second amendment is upheld then tyranny will have been defeated at the draw bridge to the castle. If there are better ideas than a movie, let's hear them. We are not married to this concept yet so now is the time.
There are two kinds of people in this World....Those who lead....and those who get the hell out of the way...GUT CHECK!...Which one are you?
Within a few weeks of taking the reins at the NRA..Hesston was on the road, giving radio interviews.
Several times he stated that citizens had no reason to own assault weapons.
I heard his statement in response to a question about "Militia groups belonging to the NRA.."
That response was to the effect that there were no known militia IN the NRA...and that if found so they would be 'rifted' from the ranks.
Nauseous, is the best I could describe that smarmy nonsense..the man was too stupid to have EVER read ANYTHING pertaining to his countries history...and the faithful nra groupies worshipped him.
Wow, are there any other bombs you wanna drop? You always seem to have one after another. It ain't a bad thing mind you, just a little depressing.[;)]
The truth hurts!
There are two kinds of people in this World....Those who lead....and those who get the hell out of the way...GUT CHECK!...Which one are you?
Militia , Now that's a word that you don't hear much these days. Did all of the militias disband or did the media run out of lies to print. When was the last time the evening news showed the militia playing in the dirt with guns.
From my cold dead fingers , my AW you will get.[8D]
Just read your posts. I'll take them on one at a time. Agreed, I know of no "Magic Bullet" either, but they do need to be courted. I will admit I had never heard of "Air Soft" look-alikes before. It seems they could serve a purpose in your type of training but I would warn against scaring the BeJesus out of women during training sessions. By your own admission, this type of training has its flaws. With proper training, the fight or flight response wouldn't be a problem. Put that mask on, attack her and see for yourself how fast she'll bust a cap if need be. I would assume that is why most firearms instructors go through a certification process. Personally, I limit any such "training" to advice, recommended research (Human nature lends one to prefer making ones own decisions rather than being told what to do or expect) and weapons familiarization. ESPECIALLY in reference to your last paragraph, leave the "Formal" training to the professionals. The grooming follows and everyone is happier in the end. This process has worked for me many times, over many years. Yes, the present one is permitted for concealed carry and packs a 9MM Glock and, we never raised our voices once. I do admire you for your volume of training albeit I do find it slightly flawed or, possibly more correct; taken beyond your level of expertise in some cases. Read the last line of your 2nd post and apply as necessary.
As far as the NRA is concerned; I assume, based on your results, that the programs they sanction are far more productive in the realm of training (men, women and children) as well as education in gun rights/ownership and safety. I am NOT a "DIEHARD" NRA supporter. I just give credit where credit is due and feel that training IS one of their strong suites. The NRA, as well as any organization, can be identified as flawed if viewed by someone with opposing views. That is WHY this discussion IS as important as it is to me. I beg to differ with you again ("it ain't duck hunting"). OPEN your eyes, some folks want my single shot goose gun banned as badly as they want my AR-15 melted down. A loss of 2nd amendment rights would end ALL hunting rights, as well as, separate you from your guns. Do you support PETA ???? YeHa.
I have no intention of sounding condescending or rude but I would suggest that if you have a problem with the NRA's position on training, their understanding of the 2nd amendment/it's purpose or what their definition of militia is; that you contact them personally. Maybe you could educate and enlighten them as to the "PROPER" way to conduct the business at hand. Log onto the NRA homepage and at the top right hit the "Contact Us" button. I'm sure they would be interested in your opinion, one-way or the other. Or you could write them. Here is the address.
? For legislative and legal action information, go to www.nraila.org.
? To change your mailing address or magazine selection please visit NRA Member Services Online.
? You can contact the NRA via mail at the following address:National Rifle Association of America11250 Waples Mill RoadFairfax, VA 22030
"Clearly; the moral compass of the founding fathers has been replaced by the spinning top of the floundering sons".
Posting this as an example of recommended sites for women visitors. More to come.
Not ignoring you. Even Semi-self reliance takes a lot of time. I guess that's why it's been rejected by the masses as a way of life. Hunting season is open and my freezers don't fill themselves (one of the trappings of civilized living), it is easier than smokin' everything. With winter coming I still find myself rather busy and regret spending so much time inside. But, Necessity dictates.
As for the movie; I would not ASSUME it to be an insurmountable task. BUT; if it were an easy thing to do, it would probably already have been done. The recent events in NO brought up a lot of controversy over gun rights/ownership and the criminal activities that lend credence to the fact that law abiding citizens with guns are not the problem. It brought out a rash of support for the gun owners, making the time right for such a project. When I saw that, I immediately thought about TED NUGENT. Think about the firestorm coming out of NO if he lived there and someone came to "confiscate" his weapons. (He doesn't and they wouldn't even try.) He is far too outspoken in support of gun rights for the government (Local, State or Federal) to bring that type of overt exposure on them. (As a side bar here; Of all the people I have suggested to support your project, you MAY find him very encouraging AND Shemane is a Video producer. As procurer of funds you may look into it. If you don't ask you'll never know. No better or vocal crusader to have on your side) To our credit the stuff hit the fan anyway. Just not with the immediacy and flare had they not been targeting the private citizens of NO.
What are the key points you need to make? FACTUALLY BASED HISTORY! One example I think about EVERYTIME I hear the words GUN COTROL; circa 1981, Morgan Grove, Ill. Banned and confiscated all handguns. The crime rate skyrocketed. (Even today they think more gun laws will solve their problem and they are attempting to ban ALL guns - even black powder). "Some people just don't get it and SOME NEVER WILL." On the flip side of this coin is a good thing. There are progressive thinkers in this county and the leadership of Kennesaw, Ga. answered this vial and stupid attack on gun owners by passing their own gun law making it a crime NOT to own a gun. Their crime rate plummeted. If I get the time I will do a search of crime rate stats 25 or so years later now for comparison if they are available. Florida's recently enacted laws were obviously a result of a mature populace finally fed up with being viewed as the next easy meal of their ever-growing predatory population. I say BRAVO for Florida, may the rest of the country follow your lead.
EXPOSE and EDUCATE: The demigods have this cradle to grave mentality that any free-thinking American should reject. The concept is not a new one but has been being hand-fed to the people for some 75 years now, one bite at a time. Manipulative, and sometimes unconstitutional (I site the Federal INCOME TAX here) coercion of the masses to create what you refer to as sheeple. And, No I have no problem with that term. I support this project mostly because I would like to expose not only our fight for 2nd amendment rights, but all constitutional rights as necessary. Primarily because of the failed leadership of powerful career politicians bent on expanding their realm of power vise actually representing their constituency. Term limits should be put back on the table and a TRUE "Constitutionally Literate" and passionate third party candidate considered and nominated. (NO, I am NOT suggesting YOU run.) Recalls and a total purge of the House and Senate ARE in order, but, the case must be made to support it. THEY'VE laid their track record. It just needs to be exposed for what it is in a logical manner and explained to the common man, on his level, without talking down to/lecturing to them. Passion is a powerful tool if expressed by the masses.
I suggest you solicit any and all suggestions no matter how outrageous, radical, left wing or right wing, conservative or liberal. You only need use what you deem necessary to make your point. This would give you a general view of what would/would not be accepted and how to approach the unaccepted/generally unacceptable factors of your point. I have to date, seen some that could/would be possible story lines. Nothing so far, should be dismissed or rejected outright. Set aside some storage space, collect as many ideas as possible and use what fits with the point you want to make. Whatever it is, it MUST be based in FACT and exactly focused on the problems that have lead to many of the problems this country faces as far as actual crime vs. gun control. STATISTICS speak for themselves when properly exposed. Educational and informative, as well as, to some degree, MANIPULATIVE. HEY, doesn't make it right, but it works for them!!! This may require a documentary of sorts (although it may not be as easy to sell to the masses as a movie) to show the proliferation of ineffectual gun control laws while still reflecting the rising crime rates directly attributive to them in urban America. It is truly a sad state of affairs when the government's cradle to grave mentality has bred an entire race of jackals. One more easily controlled in the country, than an urban setting, simply because us country folk are assumed to be armed. THINK ABOUT THAT!!
Gotta take my own advice now. Take a chill pill and regroup.
"NEVER let them see you sweat"
"My right to keep and bear arms is being dictated by a leadership unencumbered by knowledge or experience". (WWB)
"Whenever I go walking in the forest I like to stop now and then and build a small pile of rocks. You can never be too prepared for a rock throwing contest."
The mind never stops. Want a couple of radical thoughts??? Make Joe public live a frontier life style for 3 days. That would be all it would take for most Americans to earn an appreciation for the sacrifices made by the founding fathers of this country or; more correctly, those who opened it up for them.
Well, Pops;
Your oh so thinly vailed sarcasm is amusing...mostly to yourself, I expect.
I don't crawl out of bed in the morning seeking your support nor your advice.
My training methods are mine. I don't remember seeking you approval for them, either. I DO remember you asking my opinion on the subject. Feel free to reject said opinion..
Now,,for the truly obtuse part of the post..refering me to the NRA..well..it is obvious you have paid no attention to ANY thread with a discussion of the NRA contained within.
You can say what you will about the NRA , but 4 million + members all putting money were mouth is, is the most people in the same place anywhere in the world .
I have my bones to pick with them and we all have faults . Yes I do pay my dues. It's only 35 buck a year. The mag they send me helps keep me up to date on some of what needs to be done.
But most of all ,the NRA scares the hell out of the libs. Can you just think how it would be if the 90 million gun owners in this country were all members just for the hell of it. If this was so, we wouldn't have any gun control.
Think about it, 90 million is 2/3 of all of the heads of households.
Draft YES YES . Get the punks of the streets and make men out of them. Whats wrong with that?[8D]
Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6.
A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.
Make yourselves sheep, and the wolves will eat you.
Comments
[:o)]
Maybe we can create a pro-gun clone army, like in Star Wars!
MOΛΩN ΛABE
-Samuel Adams, Patriot/Brewer
I am a Jack of all trades..master of one..and the thing I master's called havin' fun..I got three minutes left to rock this funk..to seperate the good stuff from the junk..soooo...get in the groove and feel the sound once you're inside spread yourself around..from the bottom to the top.a top a to the bottom..come on master G and get funky while we got 'em..ba..bawdabop.bawdabawda..bawpbawda.bopbawdabawda [:o)]
Name that tune...hell it's been a long day I'm entitled.
Neo-Jedi Council
Naboo Sniper
There are two kinds of people in this World....Those who lead....and those who get the hell out of the way...GUT CHECK!...Which one are you?
Yeah, just out of curiosity, where does '72 post? Can't be too careful infiltraters are everywhere. I kind of feel a little misled but something tells me that was your intention . I'm glad you came by to visit and to add your support, please understand my uneasiness it is always warranted. Yah just never know now days.
I don't speak for `72. Or give out his personal information. I guess you'll have to find that out for your self. But, I assure you neither He Nor I are "infiltrators". Isn't it odd the way everyone automatically assumes that the goo in soap dispensers is always soap? I like to fill mine with mustard, just to teach people a valuable lesson in trust.
I was drawn here out of curiosity and after doing a lot of reading decided to register and post. I spent 26 years of my life defending your right to free speech so don't try to squash mine here. I WILL NOT get into a "debate" with you over who's right or who's wrong. As quikdraw67 said it's my opinion. Respect it as I respect yours. We are both on the same side of the 2nd amendment issue. So, you need not mark your territory with me as you did with someone else (Rapidfire - maybe) I read posts on. You seem to be educated, capable of expressing yourself in an organized manner, well versed on constitutional rights and passionate in your beliefs. I admire that, however, there is no room in this movement for HOTHEADS. Yes I said HOTHEADS. (It's the image you portray and not my imagination nor an opinion - at this point you are not GOD's Gift to the gun rights movement). Vanity, Ego and Paranoia seem to get in your way as well. A little advice would be to learn to control your emotions (NEVER let them see you sweat). You would be sooo much more effective. In my "opinion" you are wasting you knowledge, talent and passion bickering with like-minded gun owners on a forum where everyone believes in 2nd amendment rights. I'm not saying drop out but I am saying you should "Carry that passion on to a wider venue, practice restraint and Get h'r Done"
I'm not picking on you, but, you do seem to be the most vocal of the group and you could be a real asset to the gun rights movement with a little polish. Face it; "Radicals" are dismissed immediately by most American's (including gun owners). IF you could harness that energy and passion, and with some self-grooming (identifying your weaknesses - i.e. temper etc.) practiced restraint and the proper forum, I feel you could be a major player in the fight against the anti's. Right now you come off as a radical. That's not good.
I only know about you what you have written; in your own words. (First impressions) Think about it. (Do I sound like some kind of whacko or radical???) Read your own posts. Don't waste the knowledge or passion on an ego trip.
I still like the movie/series idea but I think you can handle that and good luck. It is a better out-let for your anger and passion, if done right.
Again; I have the same right to freedom of speech as you do and am exercising it now, so, don't expect me to demean myself by getting into a P N contest with you over this post. Likewise, I would not like to see you respond with animosity, diminishing yourself. Take it as constructive criticism and deal with it.
I'd be willing to bet the people in your `Neighborhood" consider you some kind of radical, vise a patriotic "Gun Rights" advocate. Image does mean something. Think about it!!! BEFORE, you try to represent the rest of the "Gun Owners and Hunters" of AMERICA.
"NEVER LET THEM SEE YOU SWEAT"
quikdrawspop,
Who is quikdraw72?
Well anyway, welcome to the Gun Rights forum.
The gene pool needs chlorine.
He is my son and obviously you don't know him. (No problem) Thank you, glad to be aboard.
Damn cloning.
Maybe we can create a pro-gun clone army, like in Star Wars!
If you are referring to my post: I referenced "Starman" not "Starwars" But, the cloning idea does have appeal.
Well, that's just your opinion.
Welcome aboard
Everyone has one!!! Thank you, hope any animosity has been overcome and we can get on the same page.
"Whenever I go walking in the forest I like to stop now and then and build a small pile of rocks. You can never be too prepared for a rock throwing contest."
Actually I was just referring to the proliferation of the name "quickdraw" on this forum.
Now I will sit back and watch the fireworks, as you have just lit a bunch of fuses, quickdrawspop.
[:D]
And yes, I do vote.
MOΛΩN ΛABE
-Samuel Adams, Patriot/Brewer
Trolls live under bridges. I live an open book. Come visit sometime.
I judge no man. I only offer constructive criticism. Be man enough to take it or let it be. Not here to make waves. Just exercising MY freedom.
Obviously you know little about the 'pro-gun' movement. Else you wouldn't make the statement.. quote:talent and passion bickering with like-minded gun owners on a forum where everyone believes in 2nd amendment rights.
The PROBLEM, you see..is that Pro-NRA supporters..and about 80 percent of gun owners...ARE NOT PRO-SECOND AMENDMENT...they just THINK they are. They think that because they are used to being told what to think by the leadership of the NRA....
When one cannot even get get gun owners to understand that the proper response to criminal gun violence is swift, sure punishment of the perpetrator...and NOT the gun...OR decent citizens...how the hell do you suppose we have a chance to educate the great unwashed masses of people that have never touched a gun...?
How, indeed..except to come to a "Pro-Gun" board and attempt to educate "Pro-Gunners" ?...
Save your labels. I have been labeled by experts. I remain uninpressed. Some of us have tried your procedures. Those procedures have gotten free men 20,000 gun laws. You and the NRA are failures. The sooner you understand that..the sooner you can look beyond the failures to the solution.
About voting.....even in OFF year elections.
The gene pool needs chlorine.
I respect your right to your opinion, I even respect your right to voice it here. I will say this for someone who wishes to give constructive criticism, I hope you can take it as well. I think you crossed the line with the "God to gun rights" thing and you most definitely did with how my neighbors view me. I think you'd be surprised. I will heed your criticisms and take notice of those points I feel are valid. Your right, I do have passion and I think it's harnessed pretty well but at times can get away from me.
I think your mistake was in assuming that I would fly off the handle, throwing buzz words at me like ego, temper, radical don't bother me in the slightest. I know who I am and know what it is we're trying to accomplish here with all these guys. Now you've said your piece and to be really honest you show a little of the faults that you say I possess. I was merely asking a question to see what kind of answer I would get, I feel you came off very defensive and then began an attack upon me. I know it was constructive criticism, but Highball, WW, and Quikdraw saw the same thing I did. I'm never to old to listen to advice but I'll never be so young as to have someone lecture me. It's a fine line and you were toeing it but all is good. Now with all that out of the way, what's for supper? Err..ah..I mean what is the topic of the evening?
Let's give him the benefit of the doubt here, if he's a troll it won't take long to know but I think he has something to offer here. Welcome aboard qwikdrawspop.
And hell yes, I vote! I think it should be mandatory of all American citizens.
I would like to have a couple specific examples as to your criticisms. And for the record, select-fire started that whole fiasco but I think we walked away as 2A supporters and hold no animosity towards one another. At least I don't.
Neo-Jedi Council
Naboo Sniper
There are two kinds of people in this World....Those who lead....and those who get the hell out of the way...GUT CHECK!...Which one are you?
Granted, I may not know as much as you think you do about the 'pro-gun' movement. I have in no manner tried to put a label on you up to this point but suffering from a streak of arrogance myself, I will say that it is awfully arrogant to refer to the rest of gun owners as "The Unwashed Masses" and try to lead me to believe that a forum of a dozen or so people on an obscure website can do more to educate and inform the public than organizations like the NRA. Although they are not at the top of my list, they do lobby for gun rights and have been instrumental in squashing some really insane bills.
FACTOID: (Old stats but still relevant to my argument)
LOBBYING:
* The National Rifle Association is the largest gun rights lobbying organization in the United States. From 1997 through 1998, their political action committee gave $1,330,111 to Republicans and $285,700 to Democrats.
* Handgun Control, Inc. is the largest gun control lobbying organization in the United States. From 1997 through 1998, their political action committee gave $136,892 to Democrats and $9,500 to Republicans. (11)
Other organizations with a national audience (NWTH, NWA, SCI, and SAF To name a few) are as or more vocal in promoting gun rights, ownership and hunting. You see, I am just as interested in keeping my right to hunt as I am in being able to own my High capacity clips and those firearms Not designed for hunting. It all goes together. If the Democrats had their way, the "Unwashed Masses" would probably be hiding out their single shots. Can you say you had anything to do with killing that??? Unimpressed?? YES, I am as well. I don't want to get into a PN contest with you cause I'm not THAT open-minded but to date I have not read anything you have posted that would make me come take a bath with you. If you think sitting there on an obscure web site preaching/dictating YOUR philosophical views to the "Unwashed" makes you useful, knock yourself out. It's a free country. I am not taking anything away form what you do here but it's limited to the few.. Sign me "Still Unwashed".
You are right. Sorry for the confusion. Quikdraws are not limited to posting on gun sites and there are quite a few out there. I did not know that when I took the handle but I'm not dropping it. No harm, No foul. YES, I vote (every election Local, State and National) and encourage everyone to register and VOTE. I feel if you don't vote you have no right to complain about the laws that make their way to our doorstep.
Sorry for the delay in my response but I do have other interests that take/require my time and attention. Sometimes disappear for days. No worry.
No personal attack intended, and I assume nothing. I never would of registered or logged on here if I were not looking for something. You, quite frankly, are the only reason I did. Not to start a rock fight but to explore other venues. Being new to the site I did a lot of reading on different forums and settled here. If you want examples of what I referred to, go back and read some of your own posts. My words came from "First Impressions" as an outsider looking in. As intelligent and articulate as you are, you COULD HAVE shut down "select-fire" in one line. It makes no difference WHO started it. Instead you allowed him to drag you down and diminished yourself on at least two sites. Anyone new to the sites will see that and the outcome is irrelevant to most. Bickering just doesn't cut it. Learn to pick your fights and stack your odds. Enough said about that.
I see a lot of me in you. I'm just not as articulate and restrained. I just don't know when to keep my mouth shut (or practice what I preach) because I just cannot go with the flow in most cases. You are right; I do have my share of faults as well, Probably MORE than you. Just don't seem to fit the mold society has presumed acceptable. Kind of a square peg forced into a round hole, kind of thing. Never been accused of being tactful or charming either. More like blunt, arrogant, opinionated and obstinate but; Honest. I think I've been exposed to a lot more criticism than most and, yes, I can, take it. Let me just say it has made me a better and stronger person. But, let me also add that I am not the Moderator for a "Pro Gun" web site or as vocal on as many venues, so, it's not as obvious to the general public or visitors to this site.
I tested the water here, walked that fine line as you say, even crossed it (sorry about that) ruffled some feathers and Po'ed some of the group. Found out what I wanted to know anyway. Impressed with your response. That is not from a defensive posture but one impressed by your restraint at what you (and others) perceived as a personal attack. It really was not. You are well deserved of leadership status here but I take back nothing I said about your style or the "buzz words" used, I feel that was an honest evaluation.
The comment about your neighbors deserves some explanation. I'll TRY. The picture you posted with your profile (vanity shot for sure) puts you in Hawaii, Arizona or Florida, and Living a suburban life. As one who dropped out (Completely Disillusioned by the way this country has been sold out by Career Politicians intent on killing off the very soul of the common man and controlling every aspect of his life, the dumbing down of the educational system, money hungry people who are intent on separating you from anything you could call yours etc. etc. etc,: Makes me wonder if my career option was worth it. Hence my rep. as The Hermit), 11 years ago and lived off the land without the benefit of modern conveniences (3 or 4 times a years I did go to town for supplies) for 10 before I made an attempt at reentry into society but then only because of encroachment by the money hunger developers destroying the very habitat I depended on. I still live that way even though I have since built a house. (What a Mistake that was) I wondered how you could list yourself as a survivalist? My neighbors (none real close yet) still see me as some sort of extremist, so like as not, logic would invoke a similar response in suburbia. I was just curios. (Do you sense a lot of frustration here??) Give me a time machine and send me back 150 years.
I don't have intention of lecturing to you and don't like it myself. Reeks of a holier than thou attitude. People like me that live in glass houses should not throw stones. I just like a good rock fight now and then. If the guy's get bored and lethargic makin' waves is right up my alley.
Ditto: Voting Should be MANDATORY for all American citizens.
This IS my last volley (I hope). Now that the formal introductions are over and we love each other, what's on the agenda pertaining to GUN RIGHTS and the proliferation of said rights ????
As a parting thought: Something for you to chew on. Someone on one of these sites suggested taking a 10 year old out and teach him to shoot. In 8 years he would be able to vote against these silly gun laws. Although I do agree with this (albeit not enough and probably too late) and the future of gun rights will be determined (in some manner) by todays youth, the obvious is being overlooked. WOMEN. Women determine wheither these youngsters will be exposed, wheither guns are allowed.in the house and they are the most vocal of the anti's. Are there any women members of this forum???? Oh, and I wouldn't let anyone refer to them as "UNWASHED". It might not go over very well. Think about it. I'll be around.
Are there any women members of this forum????
There are women on GB forums but not many.....as far as I know, none of them post on the "gun rights" board.....[:(]
You hit the nail on the head with your statement.....women shooters are critical. I try to teach as many women as I can to learn how to shoot......after all, her vote means as much as mine does
I would like to start by first saying, thank you. I know, if you are as like me as you say, that was somewhat difficult. Your comments have been both insightful and welcome. We all have our faults and, of course, I am no exception. I would like to think that I maintain some sense of balance in my thought process and that I emit said thoughts in a manner consistent with my intentions. At times we all have a tendancy to forget what we, as individuals, are all about. It is easy to be swayed in a different direction, one can only do his/her best to recognize these literary traps and avoid them with regularity. Having a propensity for flash and flare, it is quite often that I must reel myself in and reorganize my thoughts before proceeding. Occassionally I will fail.
The photo in my profile is nothing special, if it is seen as vain or egotistical, I will take that as a great compliment as I had no hidden agenda in placing that photo here. I think if you were to look through our family albums you would find, more often than not, that is just me being me. I won't apologize for that nor will I feel any sense of remorse for my posting of it here.
As far as my commrades in arms, I would go to bat for any one of these guys, as you have seen they would do it for me. They are sincere, insightful, and very intelligent, with qualities like these, what's not to like? My inspiration comes from each one of these folks, if it didn't I would have set up my own web site and post editorials and opinions. I find great reward in bringing the best someone has to offer out of their thoughts and expressed openly, here. Do I have an agenda? Yes, I have an agenda, I want to rid the world of vermin and slime that has corrupted the entire planet. You will find them everywhere. Isn't that an awful big task for one man to handle? If I were only one man this would be true but I am not alone, I consider myself to be a leader and as such it is my responsibility to gather like minded people so as to fight the "good" fight. These patriots that are here are the beginning of something big, I can't tell you what, but it will manifest itself over time and we shall see.
A survivalist, no, but I am studying intently as the necessity for such skills nears. I would love to live the way you described, I would probably have already shot at the developers, causing incarceration. I put that there because I think we all need to be, survivalists.
Your idea about targeting women is an avenue we have discussed, Highball had gone even further as to suggest the manner in which we accomplish this. I believe it is something to be pursued.
Are you sure you are referring to my little skirmish with select-fire or was it aglore? The latter needed that, he was entirely disrespectful and I didn't appreciate his comments. Thustly, I fought back. Sure I could have ended that little fracas sooner, but to be honest I was enjoying myself. I don't do it often, but when I do the gloves come off.
I have gone back and re-read several of my posts and I can see where you may read some of those faults coming to the surface, I would even agree that some of it is true, however, I didn't see anything that was to the degree you implied. But, that's all water over the dam and I, for one, am ready to get back to the task at hand so, what can you offer to our cause, whatever that may be[:D]. You wouldn't happen to be one of those extremely wealthy recluse types would you?[;)] We could sure use an influx of cash to make this bus start moving. I've been working on other things as of late but probably better get back to concentrating on fund-raising. As the driver of the bus, I feel it is my duty to raise funds. Unless of, of course, someone would like to step up and 'get ehr done![;)]
I look forward to your intellectual contributions.
-comengetit
Neo-Jedi Council
Naboo Sniper
There are two kinds of people in this World....Those who lead....and those who get the hell out of the way...GUT CHECK!...Which one are you?
As long as one defines 'educating' as meaning.."Submit to authority..no matter WHAT"...then I will be forced to admit you are right.
Not ONE TIME...in 40 years..have I seen ANYTHING out of the NRA that actually gives the Founders position on firearms.
That position is quite simply..."When the meanies come to get the guns...FIGHT !!! "
Me...I would RATHER have the 5-10 people on this "Obscure little web site" that actually UNDERSTAND this...then 4 million NRA members that will line up to turn in their weapons....on MY side...
wHAT, PRAY TELL..is difficult to understand about gun control ?
Gun control is EVIL..and those engaged in supporting, enforcing,or drafting laws to futher that cause...are THEMSELVES evil...or willingly following evil.
Been waitin' on you to show up. Doin' a little giggle over here also. You need to take a chill pill. We do what we can in the manner we see fit. Like I said, make yourself useful to the cause in the best manner you know how. Although we differ in methodology we are both on the same side of the fence. I want my right to keep and bear arms, you want the same thing. You can put whatever spin on that you'd like. But, That IS the same side of the fence in my opinion. If you want to argue with that don't bring it back here to me. I've already explained my stance. I get the point and know where you come from. It's a free country and you can express yourself as you wish but the evil empire things been done and they lost.
Now, comeandgetit says you have an idea to bring in women and get them active in the movement. I'd like to hear your thoughts on the subject, as I have not seen such before.
The idea is a basic one, not to take away from it, women are generaly very much into self defense, so if we were to start self defense classes that incorporate the use and training of firearms we would slowly gain a portion of the people that we have so far overlooked. If that is not correct, Highball, please correct me.
Neo-Jedi Council
Naboo Sniper
There are two kinds of people in this World....Those who lead....and those who get the hell out of the way...GUT CHECK!...Which one are you?
I don't have a magic bullet. However; The idea that the hand that rocks the cradle is the ONE hand that we better be courting is one thought of many years ago...and followed up on with any angle availible.
For many years I have attempted to train ANY woman willing to go to the range..and generally train 5-10 a year.Not many..? Perhaps..yet those women have friends..children..husbands and boyfriends.
Ny training is not santioned by the NRA..and probably would'nt be politically correct.
This discussion has been carried on here in this forum several times in the past, by the way.
Something I have incorporated since the advant of 'air-soft' look-alike guns..
After the demonstration of the destructive power of various rounds and the training...the 'graduation' for the day is to fire an airsoft into my leg (to demonstrate no injury)..then have them violate ALL my safety training by having them actually SHOOT ME with the 'airsoft'.
I generally pull on a black stocking cap and start a 'charge' from 20 feet for this demonstration.
The first time I did this...it took 3 TIMES to get the 40 year-old woman to actually pull the trigger...the innate resistance to pointing a gun at a man is tremendous...and such hesitation gets one VERY DEAD, in a crisis situation.
My opinions on this matter are many...such as..NEVER combine romance and training. DO NOT train your wife/girlfriend...unless you can rebuke her without straining the relationship beyond repair...UNSAFE gun handling will get firm, continual correction..until the raised voice takes over after repeated lapses of judgement...
The NRA has been doing a good job training
the woman . Also woman shooting sports is
a fast growing segment now with clays and
self defence. How about the BOW programs
all over the country.We need them to win.[8D]
America is sick of the crap from the Government
and the internet hatches a sinister plot .
The porn industry has the ability to put it's junk
on every screen . Someone on the forum learns
how they do it and starts a news letter. This news
letter is to recruit all of us pro gun old farts that
are short timers to take some anti-gun zealot with
them when they go.
This old guy is at a town hall event , the anti-gun
DemocRAT or what ever, is trying to get his vote.
He is telling this guy how he is going to take all of
the money from the young people and give him free
meds for life.
The old guy pulls out his 12 ga sawed off pistol and
says I was young once and blows the crap for brains
liberal away.
After about a year of this going on all over the
country liberals are getting hard to find. No one
will admit to being that stupid any more.
There are two kinds of people in this World....Those who lead....and those who get the hell out of the way...GUT CHECK!...Which one are you?
Save one. That program would need to be run by people that have an uderstanding of exactly WHAT the Second Amendments' PURPOSE is...and it ain't duck hunting.
Part of the course NEEDS to include the reason for an armed militia in America...
Contrast that with a NRA president announcing he intends 'rifting all militia from the ranks of the NRA"...
What I am saying here is..WRONG training can be more deadly to rights then NO training at all....
Highball would you please elaborate on this, I would really appreciate it.
As for the movie, where are the ideas? You guys all need to stay focussed or this will become nothing more than another unrealized statistic. Maybe we should start with, what are the key points we need to make? after we have determined what these are, we may then look at how to deliver said points and from this may come our story line. It must be provocative and entertaining, it must keep the audience focussed and lead them on a journey to discovery. If this is an insurmountable task or if you feel this can't be brought to fruition, by our group, then, by all means, speak up. How strongly do you feel about the 20,000+ gun laws being unconstitutional and yet still in place? How strongly do you feel about having to jump through hoops in order to be allowed to buy a gun, if you are allowed at all. If you start to lose interest in what it is we are trying to do, think about all of the injustices being done to you at the hands of crooked politicians. That'll make you remember why we're here.[;)]
Thanks for all of your support and input, we have yet begun to fight. This shall be a battle worth waging, I believe if the second amendment falls tyranny will reign supreme. In contrast, I believe if the second amendment is upheld then tyranny will have been defeated at the draw bridge to the castle. If there are better ideas than a movie, let's hear them. We are not married to this concept yet so now is the time.
There are two kinds of people in this World....Those who lead....and those who get the hell out of the way...GUT CHECK!...Which one are you?
Several times he stated that citizens had no reason to own assault weapons.
I heard his statement in response to a question about "Militia groups belonging to the NRA.."
That response was to the effect that there were no known militia IN the NRA...and that if found so they would be 'rifted' from the ranks.
Nauseous, is the best I could describe that smarmy nonsense..the man was too stupid to have EVER read ANYTHING pertaining to his countries history...and the faithful nra groupies worshipped him.
The truth hurts!
There are two kinds of people in this World....Those who lead....and those who get the hell out of the way...GUT CHECK!...Which one are you?
From my cold dead fingers , my AW you will get.[8D]
Something difficult to infilterate...guys you have eyeballed every few days for 5,10,20 years...
Comentgetit; My distrust of the NRA came honestly...they TAUGHT me to disbelieve their 'strong second Amendment stance'....
Just read your posts. I'll take them on one at a time. Agreed, I know of no "Magic Bullet" either, but they do need to be courted. I will admit I had never heard of "Air Soft" look-alikes before. It seems they could serve a purpose in your type of training but I would warn against scaring the BeJesus out of women during training sessions. By your own admission, this type of training has its flaws. With proper training, the fight or flight response wouldn't be a problem. Put that mask on, attack her and see for yourself how fast she'll bust a cap if need be. I would assume that is why most firearms instructors go through a certification process. Personally, I limit any such "training" to advice, recommended research (Human nature lends one to prefer making ones own decisions rather than being told what to do or expect) and weapons familiarization. ESPECIALLY in reference to your last paragraph, leave the "Formal" training to the professionals. The grooming follows and everyone is happier in the end. This process has worked for me many times, over many years. Yes, the present one is permitted for concealed carry and packs a 9MM Glock and, we never raised our voices once. I do admire you for your volume of training albeit I do find it slightly flawed or, possibly more correct; taken beyond your level of expertise in some cases. Read the last line of your 2nd post and apply as necessary.
As far as the NRA is concerned; I assume, based on your results, that the programs they sanction are far more productive in the realm of training (men, women and children) as well as education in gun rights/ownership and safety. I am NOT a "DIEHARD" NRA supporter. I just give credit where credit is due and feel that training IS one of their strong suites. The NRA, as well as any organization, can be identified as flawed if viewed by someone with opposing views. That is WHY this discussion IS as important as it is to me. I beg to differ with you again ("it ain't duck hunting"). OPEN your eyes, some folks want my single shot goose gun banned as badly as they want my AR-15 melted down. A loss of 2nd amendment rights would end ALL hunting rights, as well as, separate you from your guns. Do you support PETA ???? YeHa.
I have no intention of sounding condescending or rude but I would suggest that if you have a problem with the NRA's position on training, their understanding of the 2nd amendment/it's purpose or what their definition of militia is; that you contact them personally. Maybe you could educate and enlighten them as to the "PROPER" way to conduct the business at hand. Log onto the NRA homepage and at the top right hit the "Contact Us" button. I'm sure they would be interested in your opinion, one-way or the other. Or you could write them. Here is the address.
? For legislative and legal action information, go to www.nraila.org.
? To change your mailing address or magazine selection please visit NRA Member Services Online.
? You can contact the NRA via mail at the following address:National Rifle Association of America11250 Waples Mill RoadFairfax, VA 22030
"Clearly; the moral compass of the founding fathers has been replaced by the spinning top of the floundering sons".
Posting this as an example of recommended sites for women visitors. More to come.
http://www.galleryofguns.com/shootingtimes/Articles/DisplayArticles.asp?ID=62
www.mothersarms.org
My question to you remains/clarified. How do we get women involved ON THIS SITE??
Not ignoring you. Even Semi-self reliance takes a lot of time. I guess that's why it's been rejected by the masses as a way of life. Hunting season is open and my freezers don't fill themselves (one of the trappings of civilized living), it is easier than smokin' everything. With winter coming I still find myself rather busy and regret spending so much time inside. But, Necessity dictates.
As for the movie; I would not ASSUME it to be an insurmountable task. BUT; if it were an easy thing to do, it would probably already have been done. The recent events in NO brought up a lot of controversy over gun rights/ownership and the criminal activities that lend credence to the fact that law abiding citizens with guns are not the problem. It brought out a rash of support for the gun owners, making the time right for such a project. When I saw that, I immediately thought about TED NUGENT. Think about the firestorm coming out of NO if he lived there and someone came to "confiscate" his weapons. (He doesn't and they wouldn't even try.) He is far too outspoken in support of gun rights for the government (Local, State or Federal) to bring that type of overt exposure on them. (As a side bar here; Of all the people I have suggested to support your project, you MAY find him very encouraging AND Shemane is a Video producer. As procurer of funds you may look into it. If you don't ask you'll never know. No better or vocal crusader to have on your side) To our credit the stuff hit the fan anyway. Just not with the immediacy and flare had they not been targeting the private citizens of NO.
What are the key points you need to make? FACTUALLY BASED HISTORY! One example I think about EVERYTIME I hear the words GUN COTROL; circa 1981, Morgan Grove, Ill. Banned and confiscated all handguns. The crime rate skyrocketed. (Even today they think more gun laws will solve their problem and they are attempting to ban ALL guns - even black powder). "Some people just don't get it and SOME NEVER WILL." On the flip side of this coin is a good thing. There are progressive thinkers in this county and the leadership of Kennesaw, Ga. answered this vial and stupid attack on gun owners by passing their own gun law making it a crime NOT to own a gun. Their crime rate plummeted. If I get the time I will do a search of crime rate stats 25 or so years later now for comparison if they are available. Florida's recently enacted laws were obviously a result of a mature populace finally fed up with being viewed as the next easy meal of their ever-growing predatory population. I say BRAVO for Florida, may the rest of the country follow your lead.
EXPOSE and EDUCATE: The demigods have this cradle to grave mentality that any free-thinking American should reject. The concept is not a new one but has been being hand-fed to the people for some 75 years now, one bite at a time. Manipulative, and sometimes unconstitutional (I site the Federal INCOME TAX here) coercion of the masses to create what you refer to as sheeple. And, No I have no problem with that term. I support this project mostly because I would like to expose not only our fight for 2nd amendment rights, but all constitutional rights as necessary. Primarily because of the failed leadership of powerful career politicians bent on expanding their realm of power vise actually representing their constituency. Term limits should be put back on the table and a TRUE "Constitutionally Literate" and passionate third party candidate considered and nominated. (NO, I am NOT suggesting YOU run.) Recalls and a total purge of the House and Senate ARE in order, but, the case must be made to support it. THEY'VE laid their track record. It just needs to be exposed for what it is in a logical manner and explained to the common man, on his level, without talking down to/lecturing to them. Passion is a powerful tool if expressed by the masses.
I suggest you solicit any and all suggestions no matter how outrageous, radical, left wing or right wing, conservative or liberal. You only need use what you deem necessary to make your point. This would give you a general view of what would/would not be accepted and how to approach the unaccepted/generally unacceptable factors of your point. I have to date, seen some that could/would be possible story lines. Nothing so far, should be dismissed or rejected outright. Set aside some storage space, collect as many ideas as possible and use what fits with the point you want to make. Whatever it is, it MUST be based in FACT and exactly focused on the problems that have lead to many of the problems this country faces as far as actual crime vs. gun control. STATISTICS speak for themselves when properly exposed. Educational and informative, as well as, to some degree, MANIPULATIVE. HEY, doesn't make it right, but it works for them!!! This may require a documentary of sorts (although it may not be as easy to sell to the masses as a movie) to show the proliferation of ineffectual gun control laws while still reflecting the rising crime rates directly attributive to them in urban America. It is truly a sad state of affairs when the government's cradle to grave mentality has bred an entire race of jackals. One more easily controlled in the country, than an urban setting, simply because us country folk are assumed to be armed. THINK ABOUT THAT!!
Gotta take my own advice now. Take a chill pill and regroup.
"NEVER let them see you sweat"
"My right to keep and bear arms is being dictated by a leadership unencumbered by knowledge or experience". (WWB)
"Whenever I go walking in the forest I like to stop now and then and build a small pile of rocks. You can never be too prepared for a rock throwing contest."
The mind never stops. Want a couple of radical thoughts??? Make Joe public live a frontier life style for 3 days. That would be all it would take for most Americans to earn an appreciation for the sacrifices made by the founding fathers of this country or; more correctly, those who opened it up for them.
Then; reinstitute the draft!!!!!!!!!!!! YEHA.
Your oh so thinly vailed sarcasm is amusing...mostly to yourself, I expect.
I don't crawl out of bed in the morning seeking your support nor your advice.
My training methods are mine. I don't remember seeking you approval for them, either. I DO remember you asking my opinion on the subject. Feel free to reject said opinion..
Now,,for the truly obtuse part of the post..refering me to the NRA..well..it is obvious you have paid no attention to ANY thread with a discussion of the NRA contained within.
I have my bones to pick with them and we all have faults . Yes I do pay my dues. It's only 35 buck a year. The mag they send me helps keep me up to date on some of what needs to be done.
But most of all ,the NRA scares the hell out of the libs. Can you just think how it would be if the 90 million gun owners in this country were all members just for the hell of it. If this was so, we wouldn't have any gun control.
Think about it, 90 million is 2/3 of all of the heads of households.
Draft YES YES . Get the punks of the streets and make men out of them. Whats wrong with that?[8D]
Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6.
A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.
Make yourselves sheep, and the wolves will eat you.