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Shootstraight;
Educate yourself.
Take a poll of all your NRA buddies. Keep a record of the number that supports gun control..
versus those smart enough to realize that PEOPLE control is the proper answer to crime.
I will NOT support ANY person nor group that advocates gun control. PERIOD.
Anti-NRA ? NAH....I am Anti-Gun control....unfortunately, your nra isn't.
Must you take everything as a personal affront?? I will admit an avail of sarcasm to my last post but did not intend it to be amusing. If you're going to fight the fight I suggest you get a thicker skin or start wearing body armor. I did solicit your input and, I'll know better next time. My point. Your Passion in supporting 2nd amendment rights is admirable; however, I suggest that you take off the blinders. I will TRY to explain without offending you. (If I fail then quite possibly you need to do a little more soul searching.)
As I see it, and profoundly believe, there is a pervasive attitude in this country that "If it doesn't DIRECTLY affect me, let someone else do it" ("Only, If there's something in it for me, will I support it" - "If it would require me to DO something, forget it.") and even then, most will just sit back and complain. The government and the anti's did not begin the assault on constitutional rights with gun control, that's just what Directly affects you. (And, No!! I am not suggesting that is your only concern.)
Although it seems to be acceptable behavior now to spend 8-10 hours per day in front of the boob tube, (The American Nanny) I doubt seriously (actually I KNOW it) that much, if any, of that time is spent watching the news. (Agreed, media coverage is, more often than not, skewed to say the least, and not reliable in itself) As one who didn't have one for 10 years I maintain that I kept myself more informed than most on current events. This requires multiple sources. Does anyone read anymore????
FACTOID: ("Elementary/secondary education costs $300,000,000,000 per year, employing more than 5,000,000 people. Yet, with all that money and personnel, American kids are being handed diplomas they can't read.")
The problem stems from lazy people expecting handouts as well as, greed and a lust for power by our DUELY elected officials. As you well know, most Americans don't/won't vote. WHY?? I will advance that some avoid that responsibility in some naive attempt at anonymity, (you can't hide from big brother) while others justify not voting merely to avoid jury duty. (I also KNOW this to be fact and individual names come to mind but I wouldn't, obviously, name names...You wouldn't know them anyway.) Yet they complain!! Only by the grace of god did we survive 8 years with Clinton. Now, he is trying to take control of NATO and Hillary is posturing for the Whitehouse in 2008 and; she WILL morph into whatever it takes to get her elected. This must Not happen!! (Surely you've heard "It Takes A Village" and, know her opinion of guns.) A Voter Registration campaign for our side is in order.
Shoostright made an excellent point concerning the NRA. Thirty-five dollars is a cheap price to pay for the assurance that Gun Owners maintain a lobby in D.C. Any flawed thinking you perceive aside, I prefer the NRA over no lobby or representation.
I must have hit a hot button somewhere by suggesting reinstitution of the draft. Why would I make such a comment?? Think about WHO actually dreams up and enacts the law of the land. The majority (granted; not all) consists of the ex-hippies, blatant draft dodgers and elitists who dodged military service over the last 50 years and left that to the lower classes. (Yes, I do believe there is a class system in this society.) Patriotism and ensuring your rights, is not at the top of their agenda. Power over you and I is the goal! Instituting and empowering the New World order, making us dependant on BIG government for our very day-to-day existence. Taxing us silly (illegally I might add), then, come to our rescue and tell us how good they are to us. (They give us social security, medi-care, medicaid etc.- no mention of how badly these are managed or what kind of boondoggle they are. Just another example of how government can better provide for you than you could have done yourself.) I firmly believe military service should be mandatory, without exception and without financial incentive to serve. (Here I refer not to pay but to enlistment incentives now required to maintain an all-volunteer force) I have nothing against higher education but feel it should not proffer exception either. Do your service before or after, your choice. As shootstright pointed out it would solve some urban problems as well. Service to your country has an affect on anyone who has experienced it. Mostly positive, with exceptions here as well. You get out what you put in and believe me; an appreciation for how good life is here (however flawed), compared to other parts of the world, sparks something in anyone exposed. The more you appreciate what you have, the more fervently you will fight to protect it if it is threatened. That appreciation, for what it took to get us here, is blatantly absent today. Forgotten?? Not in all cases. U.S.History has been censored. If you have children in school take a look at their history books. The supporters of this new world order have already assured the Constitution and any implied or expressed rights, never enter impressionable minds.
Until everyone in this country wakes up, realizes their very existence as individuals in a (presently) free society is threatened, you will see more and more attempts at legislation that restrict and dictate your life. More government control. As an advocate of 2nd Amendment rights I would encourage you to broaden your spectrum and address solutions to the root cause. Face it more gun laws will just create a new class of criminals. (Law-abiding citizens who refuse to rollover.) That root cause has already enslaved and oppressed the nation. We work to support the very government that dictates how we can live, how and where our children are educated, how, when and where we can/cannot practice or espouse religion. I could go on and on but the point is; even though none (even religious freedom as they interpret/apply it) of the aforementioned examples enjoy express coverage under the Constitution, that merely passing such laws indicates the direction government is headed. The founding fathers created the constitution based on lessons learn from history. Career politicians, greed and lust are now corrupting their very work, at EVERY level of government. You are right. Now is the time to take a stance. The question is; can you see that it must be done on a broader scale???? History does repeat itself.
I submit another web site, recommended by my Girlfriend, for your perusal and that of concerned parents. It may indeed help generate more interest from the female gender. I don't agree with everything he says but cannot claim his thinking as flawed. It does make a most interesting read.
"Here is a web site that I find EXTREMELY informative on many issues about which American citizens should be expressing concern. The articles run the gamut from politics, education, establishment of the new world order and right on to gun control. Read between the lines if necessary, but the overall message in each article is powerful and informative. I recommend reading every one of them. Collectively they'll make you think more seriously about our elected officials (From school board to the President) and the kind of job they have been doing for their constituency".
Don Boys, Ph.D., is a former member of the Indiana House of Representatives, wrote columns for USA Today for eight years, authored 13 books and lives in Ringgold, GA. His book, ISLAM: America's Trojan Horse! was published in March. His web site is: www.CSTNews.com.
Quotes from his work: "There are not enough federal agents with all their guns, badges, etc., to influence my preaching. Period! O course, they can put me in jail, but that will only change my address but not my address".
"Your children are being brainwashed through public education, music, television and movies". And Further Down-- "The culture has kidnapped our children while we slept or watched television".
"I don't believe any public money should be give to any school, from pre-school through university level, at any time under any circumstance whether public or parochial. When that happens, the free market would take over and inferior schools (public and Christian) would go out of business. Then, maybe, the nightmare of public education would become a faint memory as a very foolish, socialist experience by an uninformed American public--and taxpayers would rejoice again from sea to shining sea."
"Legislators who think that gun bans will have any impact on crime are unthinking, uncaring, unconstitutional and should be unemployed."
I think you make an excellent point concerning the NRA. Thirty-five dollars is a cheap price to pay for the assurance that Gun Owners maintain a lobby in D.C. Any flawed thinking you perceive aside, I prefer the NRA over no lobby or representation.
I won't make any more friends with this comment but once again in a general sense it is absolutely true. When anti's join a cause it's because of some single ideal that fits their mind set. Before you trip out, my comment here is based more in line with my opinion of members of organizations like PETA. However; to anyone reading this; if the shoe fits, wear it. They are issued (or already have them on) a set of blinders, see only what they want to see, and the radicalism that follows leads to their rejection as a whole and ultimately; ineffectually and demise. Recent history is full of examples I could use here. Many organizations have fallen from grace with the informed (voters) Solely because of their stand on a Single agenda. My way or the highway - All or nothing, representing themselves (or animals) as a persecuted minority, just don't sell anymore. Everyone feels persecuted in some manor now days and sympathy has been reserved for self. The one trick pony is dead. Without compromise, no one agenda organization will ever survive to fruition and benefit the masses. Here, I add, the NRA is no one trick pony and does benefit the like-minded masses that, in turn, support them.
Let me have the honor of been your 1st poll response. I SUPPORT your statement and the NRA.
POPS;
You will find I have a VERY thick skin.
However..if you insist in throwing mud..expect twice as much coming back YOUR way.
You make a serious mistake assuming that I am ignorant of the multitude of methods used by the enemies of freedom to gain their ends.
You might step back a moment and actually THINK...You come on this forum and attack me...for YOUR preceived notions of who, what and where I stand.
Now...your last post contains many truths..It no doubt would pain you ENDLESSY to find if you went back thru MY posts over the last 3-4 years most of the exact same sentiments expressed.
Save the NRA advertisment. THAT you will NOT find...I stopped believing in tooth fairies many years ago.
I leave you with this thought;
I have been watching the disintgration of this country for 45 years. I have availed myself of MANY forms of information..some you no doubt know nothing about. I doubt you can teach me anything about the subjects we speak of.
HOwever...I am listening.
Comengetit came on this forum..and we bumped heads several times. After a period of adjustment...we ALL have learned things from his invaluble contributions herein.
You can continue to attack me...or we can discuss the issues. Your choice.
You speak of getting educated?? Your miss interpretation of capitulation by the NRA as condoning gun control is very reflective. Fight the battle you can win today and live to fight another day where you have to; would be a more proper translation. Picking the battles and fighting for those who will support them at the polls came from experience. As I said before, you got a problem with the way they represent You, Tell Them.
Misinterpretation again. Without going back over countless posts to acquaint myself with everything you have ever posted, I make reference to whats here and the image you have thus far projected. I make no insinuation that you're ignorant or uninformed. Only that your source of frustation may be misdirected and tried to explain my reasoning for that assumption. I am prepared for but, not desiring any sort of mud slinging fest. As I have already professed; that would prove very counterproductive.
Don't come here if your intention is to gain friends. You are of no use to anyone or anything if your views are not readily and outwardly spoken. On a forum such as this there are going to be many differing opinions and somewhere in the middle is most likely where the road to righteousness begins. The people that have been on this forum for awhile have become somewhat stagnant in their abilities to compromise. This is not necessarily a bad thing, it just makes it a little more difficult to see the forest through the trees. When I say "compromise" I refer to the sense of meaning the word represents. Compromise does not have to be tied to gun control every time it's mentioned. Here, in this case, I am using compromise as a description of how I view open-mindedness, not a call to submit to the compromising going on in the war for second amendment rights.
For the most part, I believe this is an open-minded group. That is not to say that everything is open for debate as I too am firmly planted on some issues. Highball, for example, is firmly planted on the issue of compromise when it comes to gun control. I completely understand where he is coming from and because of these discussions, have also become firm in my stance against said compromises. There will, inevitably, be those that will disagree stating that something is better than nothing and for all intents and purposes, they would be correct. Some are gamblers, some are not.
If you were out on a hunting trip and suddenly found yourself in a war zone whereby you witnessed people being herded into cattle cars by no more than six armed men, would you;
a. Use your gun in an all or nothing attempt to free those held captive, knowing you may very well die.
b. Would you try and keep the train in view while you tried to recruit help from your fellow citizens.
c. would you seek out U.S. military support so as they may free those held captive.
or
d. Would you just go home saying "it is none of my business."
Most of you here would choose either a, b, or c, but they would still be different paths to acquire the same result. By seeking help from citizens, you are sharing the glory of the rescue. By telling the soldiers of the news you are passing the glory onto someone else, as well as the burden. By taking on the task yourself you have a chance at great glory and also have a high risk of death. I don't think anyone would have chosen "d" at least not here anyway.
My point is as long as we all seek the same end goal, does it really matter how we get there. Is it not possible to give and take until the balance shifts our way at which time we may go after all 20,000+ gun laws or should we throw caution to the wind and go for it all in one fell swoop, an all or nothing approach? Or we can all sit back and let someone else whom may or may not do something about it have the reigns? It's a choice and which one is right we may never know so I think as responsible adults we must take the avenue that gives us the best chance at total repeal of all gun laws, which ever that may be. Hence the raeson we debate the topic here.
I have not yet committed to either school of thought, I am still weighing pro's and con's as they are uncovered. So we continue to discuss and this is where those new voices can really make a difference. All it takes is one peson to come up with the right angle and we are all in, I'm sure. Highball, I am now of a belief that forcing the gun ban is not in our best interest because I can see the writing on the wall. We would have no shot of reviving the second amendment once it is dead. They will simply say, "you wanted it, you got it." "End of argument." I have made this determination after careful consideration of all the facts and some of the theories, it just seems logical to first get the ball back in our court before trying to put it away. Maybe I'm wrong, that's just how I see it.
As I can best tell, the tide is shifting our way. I think the most important thing that can happen after Judge Alito is confirmed, should be that we make damn sure the Clintons stay out of the Presidents seat and for that matter, no Democrat should ever be President again, they're just so Gosh Dang wrong in their thinking. I believe that can be proven. Do you know what the saddest thing about a Democratic Liberal is? They know they are wrong but are now so committed to their tenet that they can never revert back to the right side of politics. They are stuck in a quagmire of self pity and doubt.
Quikdrawspop, With all that being said, will you please stop beginning your comments with a plea for acceptance. Everyone has their views and usually here in gun rights the flaming does not get too bad. Speak your piece, if someone can't handle it then debate it. I see no reason for anything to ever get personal or nasty, if you are losing the debate, whoever that may be, suck it up and admit it. Don't resort to name calling and insults, if we stoop to that level, we are no different than the politics room and that room is really bad.
There are two kinds of people in this World....Those who lead....and those who get the hell out of the way...GUT CHECK!...Which one are you?
The nra has A purpose in today's fight. Today's fight is in A political ring, and they do what they can by playin politics. Of course politics requires giving, and taking. This is something I am opposed to. When it comes to Our second amendment rights, there is no taking. I used to work for the state department of corrections, so I do know how politics work, and don't like them. While I am grateful for what the nra is trying to do, they just aint getting it right.[:(!]
I do not expect to gain much support for my position. That plan puts the manhood of America to the test within a very few years....Years that are important.
Yes, the tides are turning....red.
We enter ever more into the cesspool of Socialism/Fascism..we need new words to describe the slavery of 65% taxation/total information gathering/swat teams on every corner/20,000 gun law nation...the old ones fail me.
The NRA ? There is a man on this forum that has compiled a impressive amount of data concerning the NRA's "Compitulation" on gun laws. Perhaps he would post it. It TRULY makes sickening reading.
Is it really a gamble you are willing to take? That truly is an all or nothing proposition, one that may still turn out to be the correct one but until I see no other avenue, I am not going to throw caution to the wind with so much at stake. We only get one shot at this and I don't think we should flush the progress that's been made just yet. I'd kind of like to see how far the lobbying groups will take this gun confiscation business, if they play it aggressively they can turn this tide, if they don't then we will watch it fade and slide under the rug. At that point I will probably be ready for the all or nothing position of aggression. Until then I will continue to go through the drills, mail, email, and phone calls.
I think you are probably right, Highball it's just too big a risk at this juncture. I think we would be better served to jump in bed with the NRA and GOA one last time and see where it goes. If they fail this time then they will always fail. You just don't get gifts like this every day, they'd better do something with it. So for now I'm rah, rah, rah, NRA and GOA anything else is just not going to get it done.
In your statement, Highball, you stated that you were willing to bet on that 3% coming through, are you really? Do you see that 3% coming to the forefront and getting it done? You realize everyone from the President down to little Timmy, the next door neighbor, will be against us. The media, with the governments guidance, will make us out to be terrorist, they will take our families into custody as terrorist sympathizers. We won't know where they are being held and the will and spirit of our brave patriots will be broken. But, we will have no alternative but to fight on as the only thing waiting for us will be a treason charge and we will either be exiled or killed. I can only see fighting as a last resort. We will have to be prepared to never see our loved ones again and fight to the death, for it truly will be, "Give me Liberty or Give Me Death." I see great irony in that.
As you say we pay 65% taxes, I challenge everyone to show me where the law that says we must pay income tax, as an individual, or suffer consequences. I've looked quite deeply and there is verbaige that lends itself to an interpretation but later contradicts itself by definition. I would be very interested to see what you all come up with. You want to halt the giant machine, stop paying taxes as a nation. That would shut down government in a matter of weeks. Then we could start all over again wth Ron Paul as President.
There are two kinds of people in this World....Those who lead....and those who get the hell out of the way...GUT CHECK!...Which one are you?
Comengetit,
Just wondering. You have stated in your last few posts in this thread, that we are making progress, or that the tide is shifting our way. Other than one person being "nominated" to the supreme court, and a few states enacting a CCW law (Which I consider UN-constitutional by the way, all states should be like the Vermont CCW law, or lack of [;)]) where is this "progress" you speak of?
As to fighting. Yes, it would get REAL ugly. That is why the 3% number (which I question) is so low. Our forefathers knew it would get ugly back then. MANY MANY names did not make it into the history books, they paid the ultimate price for what they believed in, their life. Would even 3% of gun owners do it today? It would surely separate the men from the boys.
On income tax. Agreed that a "federal" income tax is not legal. Please show me people who have fought this, using the "it's not legal" argument, and won. It's not so much whether it is legal or not, it is that a precedent has already been established. Same as the UNCONSTITUTIONAL gun laws.
I'll leave my thoughts on the NRA out of THIS thread.
pickenup- You can't feel the tide turning? John Roberts and Judge Alito are huge victories, provided Alito gets the affirmation and probably the biggest victory for gun rights advocates, the maufacturers relief law. We were being set into a mold that there was going to be no way out of. They were going to slowly bleed thye manufacturers to death effectively ending all production of retail firearms. Couple that with the assault weapons ban, I don't think it would have sunset if this were a different President, and you throw in Kalifornia and what they are doing and the writing was on the wall. Instead, the assault weapons ban did sunset under a cloud of embarrassment for the gun grabbers, we continue to grant CCW's all over the U.S. save a few states, the manufacturers relief act is gigantic, and we have two awesome additions to the Supreme Court. Rather than feeling the noose tighten it seems to be loosening a bit. Now this is not to say that this is not the "calm before the storm", but I like what I am seeing so far.
Once the gun grabbers realize their fight is futile, they will quietly disappear into the night, in the meantime we have things like New Orleans that are opening eyes. I can feel the momentum changing all around me. Most important on the 'to do' list; kepp the Democrats out of office, if we get another eight year Republican in office it will crush the anti-gun movement. This is about guns now, this isn't the time or place to argue the politics of such an occurrence. Everyone has different views as to how the current Presidency is handling the country and, quite frankly, those are irrelevant in this discussion. I know of only a very few Democrats that support gun ownership and none of them are coming up for office, HILLARY MUST NOT WIN!!!!!!! This is why we should spend the next two years educating women as we have already discussed. Go down and talk to the range owner, tell him/her what you are trying to do and why, you may get free range time to hold your classes, you may get more support than that.
Oh, the tide she is a changin' and it feels good. We are nowhere near out of the woods but I'm beginning to see daylight. I am speaking ONLY of our gun rights, this does nothing to point out how we are being systematically imprisoned via law after stupid law. These will be next after we have a firm hold on the gun issue. This is going to be pushed to the Supreme Court now and the NRA and GOA have all of our money so they are the logical choices.
I know your feelings on the NRA and GOA but, they have a powerful weapon to wield now and I am going to give them the benefit of a doubt and see what they can do. As I said, if they fail then I am forever off their wagon.
There are two kinds of people in this World....Those who lead....and those who get the hell out of the way...GUT CHECK!...Which one are you?
Yeah, I posted that earlier in this thread or another one about three weeks ago. Isn't that just the most unbelievable thing ever? I was in court with a friend of mine the other day and, sure enough, right there in the corner, the U.S. Stars and Stripes with a yellow fringe all around three sides, sickening.
There are two kinds of people in this World....Those who lead....and those who get the hell out of the way...GUT CHECK!...Which one are you?
quote:Originally posted by quikdrawspop
Guidance for when an armed revolt may be considered by some. Referenced books at the top are not a bad read either.
I only disagree with one statement in your previous post.
"I am speaking ONLY of our gun rights, this does nothing to point out how we are being systematically imprisoned via law after stupid law. These will be next after we have a firm hold on the gun issue."
Rather than offer my opinion, I will refer you to a quote from Tripwire that supports why.
---Laws that make nugatory the means of resisting tyranny and despotism determine the tripwire. The creeping legislative erosion of the 2nd Amendment is not the only tripwire that justifies resistance. We submit that any gun control is a secondary tripwire. Not only because it can be effortlessly evaded, but also because it strengthens our cause. It is second only to censorship. If speech is illegal we can discuss neither repeal of gun control, or the repeal of any other unconstitutional "law." Censorship is not a tripwire, it is THE tripwire. Thus, by default, censorship morally justifies rebellion.---
I did not know you had posted these sites. Amazing how like minds work.
quote:Originally posted by quikdrawspop
I only disagree with one statement in your previous post.
"I am speaking ONLY of our gun rights, this does nothing to point out how we are being systematically imprisoned via law after stupid law. These will be next after we have a firm hold on the gun issue."
Rather than offer my opinion, I will refer you to a quote from Tripwire that supports why.
---Laws that make nugatory the means of resisting tyranny and despotism determine the tripwire. The creeping legislative erosion of the 2nd Amendment is not the only tripwire that justifies resistance. We submit that any gun control is a secondary tripwire. Not only because it can be effortlessly evaded, but also because it strengthens our cause. It is second only to censorship. If speech is illegal we can discuss neither repeal of gun control, or the repeal of any other unconstitutional "law." Censorship is not a tripwire, it is THE tripwire. Thus, by default, censorship morally justifies rebellion.---
I did not know you had posted these sites. Amazing how like minds work.
I agree, maybe I should have elaborated more. What I meant was, if we have our guns and they are not aiming to get them anymore then we are able to fight back against the other injustices but without our guns it is rather futile. I wanted to head off all of the comments that would address all of the other issues at hand as they are quite numerous. If the JBT's and govt. realize that they ain't gettin' the guns, they will try and back door us, which is what they are doing now. We have to recognize this and defend appropriately, with our guns. Does that make sense?[:)]
There are two kinds of people in this World....Those who lead....and those who get the hell out of the way...GUT CHECK!...Which one are you?
Don't forget about BILL. The Clinton Goal is WORLD dominance. Bill in control of U.N., Hillary as President. Why do you think they sabotaged Kerry in the end when he needed their support?? You want a nightmare?? STOP BILL Also.
quote:Originally posted by quikdrawspop
Don't forget about BILL. The Clinton Goal is WORLD dominance. Bill in control of NATO, Hillary as President. Why do you think they sabotaged Kerry in the end when he needed their support?? You want a nightmare?? STOP BILL Also.
Good point, I love the way the media is leaving this whole topic alone as if to wish to sneak it by us. Bill being in charge of NATO I don't so much worry about, but combine that with Hillary as President and good Lord what a mess. They may be the two headed anti-Christ. Women, generally and instinctively, hate other women, I'm not making this up. I have tested this theory with probably more than 2,000 women and 98% do not like other women. They don't trust them, I think Hillary has already lost. I am concerned with what the GOP does though, putting Condi up against Hillary is a mistake of gigantic proportions. We had better come up with a big shot male candidate or we may just get that nightmare you spoke of.
There are two kinds of people in this World....Those who lead....and those who get the hell out of the way...GUT CHECK!...Which one are you?
I agree, maybe I should have elaborated more. What I meant was, if we have our guns and they are not aiming to get them anymore then we are able to fight back against the other injustices but without our guns it is rather futile. I wanted to head off all of the comments that would address all of the other issues at hand as they are quite numerous. If the JBT's and govt. realize that they ain't gettin' the guns, they will try and back door us, which is what they are doing now. We have to recognize this and defend appropriately, with our guns. Does that make sense?[:)]
quote:Originally posted by Comengetit
quote:Originally posted by quikdrawspop
Don't forget about BILL. The Clinton Goal is WORLD dominance. Bill in control of NATO, Hillary as President. Why do you think they sabotaged Kerry in the end when he needed their support?? You want a nightmare?? STOP BILL Also.
Good point, I love the way the media is leaving this whole topic alone as if to wish to sneak it by us. Bill being in charge of NATO I don't so much worry about, but combine that with Hillary as President and good Lord what a mess. They may be the two headed anti-Christ. Women, generally and instinctively, hate other women, I'm not making this up. I have tested this theory with probably more than 2,000 women and 98% do not like other women. They don't trust them, I think Hillary has already lost. I am concerned with what the GOP does though, putting Condi up against Hillary is a mistake of gigantic proportions. We had better come up with a big shot male candidate or we may just get that nightmare you spoke of.
There are two kinds of people in this World....Those who lead....and those who get the hell out of the way...GUT CHECK!...Which one are you?
You under estimate the Clinton's. Their ability to Morph with public opinion is their greatest asset and one which they have mastered. They are not above blatant lies to gain support.(Did you know Hillary is Jewish now?) I agree with your stats about women hating each other but that won't stop them from voting for Hillary if they can be brainwashed.(Note my previous reference to "Commander In Chief"-- Scripted by Clint staffers.) Condi? Good prospect based on the Clint posturing but,I would like to see more names before offering my total support.
No, I don't under estimate them, I just won't give them my vote of approval. By acknowleging their abilities, I somehow in my mind am supporting them. I would rather eat a dirty sock than to have either one of them anywhere near the White House. I'm not sure how long she would make it in Washington, there are some pretty psycho people out there that are not going to take kindly to a woman Democrat gun grabber as President. I don't think there will be a female president in my lifetime, oh God let that be true.
There are two kinds of people in this World....Those who lead....and those who get the hell out of the way...GUT CHECK!...Which one are you?
The Colonists exhausted every avenue before force of arms was resorted to.
Then only when the Brits marched to take those arms.
I am content to observe your actions from the sidelines. I refuse to wade in the sewage with the politicians any more,and joining forces with the ice cream's of NRA appeals not one iota at all.
You guys have dug out a lot of information.Congratulations. I could post this stuff..but to what purpose..if you are not interested enough to dig it out..you would'nt read it anyway.
Appears to me...some of you all that profess to be 'new' at critical study of the beast...have been around the horn.
My job is simple. I point out the inevitable outcome if you fail in your endeavors. Some reading that WILL study how to survive that tragic event. Those are the people I wish to reach.
I have no interest in the garbage wishing only for the status quo..willing to forever more appease the beast for the privilege of breathing.
Harsh words..? You bet. We used to be a nation not afraid to speak words that may perhaps insult someone. Some of us are throw-backs....
quote:Originally posted by Highball
quote:The Colonists exhausted every avenue before force of arms was resorted to.
Then only when the Brits marched to take those arms.
Incomplete, but I think I get your meaning. Are we not of like minds on this?
quote:I am content to observe your actions from the sidelines. I refuse to wade in the sewage with the politicians any more,and joining forces with the ice cream's of NRA appeals not one iota at all.
I don't intend on wading with the politicians either and I certaily will not crawl on my belly. All I am saying is there is a golden opportunity for us to avoid much bloodshed, wouldn't it then be prudent to explore the opportunities as they present themselves? As far as the NRA, I know where you stand on this issue and I don't disagree, however, I don't see as where we have much of a choice right now. They have all the power and money, we here are few and lack any kind of political power. Given the time necessary to build an organization able to combat these unconstitutional laws, I have no doubt that we would be successful in our endevour. Time is not a luxury that we possess.
quote:You guys have dug out a lot of information.Congratulations. I could post this stuff..but to what purpose..if you are not interested enough to dig it out..you would'nt read it anyway.
If you have more information that you feel is prudent then by all means please post it. I think we have shown our desire for knowledge, not that we need validate ourselves. You have fought the fight for many years and I respect that, but you appear to have quit. Just when the tables are turning, you have decided to stay on the sidelines, I can, likewise, respect your decision. Where I have my problem Highball is in the fact that you appear to be far more knowledgable in these particular arenas and you are not sharing that knowledge with those wanting to learn. That is truly a waste. You've made some excellent points since I joined this forum, even changed my thinking in a couple of areas and for this I say thank you, but it is not productive at all for one with such a vast knowledge of the title in question to gaurd such knowledge from those who may best use it.
quote:Appears to me...some of you all that profess to be 'new' at critical study of the beast...have been around the horn.
I can't speak for anyone else here but my interest in this is about as old as my membership to this forum. I have always been a gun owner but one who never paid attention to gun ordinances, as long as I could keep mine I didn't care. When I read a couple of posts here I got enlightened to the injustices being done to our citizens. Was I a sheeple? In every sense of the word, yes! That has all changed and I now wish to do whatever I can within my power to see that the ship gets righted. I see a tremendous problem with the law of Admiralty. I discovered this quite by accident and was disgusted when I did. Once I set my mind to something it's hard for anyone to stop the train from running.
quote:My job is simple. I point out the inevitable outcome if you fail in your endeavors. Some reading that WILL study how to survive that tragic event. Those are the people I wish to reach.
I'm afraid I don't understand this comment, who are you trying to reach? And if this is to be your job, then fantastic that's doing more than 99.5% of the citizens can say.
quote:I have no interest in the garbage wishing only for the status quo..willing to forever more appease the beast for the privilege of breathing.
Harsh words..? You bet. We used to be a nation not afraid to speak words that may perhaps insult someone. Some of us are throw-backs....
I have no interest in that garbage either. Do I appear to be satisfied with the status quo? If I do then I had better do a much better job of projecting my intentions. I wish to see every gun law repealed and will not be satisfied until that happens, along with an entirely new, much smaller government.
Highball, don't get me wrong, we are still on the same side here, I just can't sit back and wait. Perhaps our involvement will somehow spur the total ban, that you look for, into reality. Don't take that out of context, I know what you mean and I understand the reasoning behind it. I'm just not all thrilled to go out and get shot if I don't have to and I'm sure my wife would appreciate that I don't get shot either. Oh, I'm still going when it's game time, take that to the bank but I am also a pretty intelligent person and if I don't have to get shot, I don't think I will. With that being said, I must explore and exhaust all possible avenues before I submit to warfare.
There are two kinds of people in this World....Those who lead....and those who get the hell out of the way...GUT CHECK!...Which one are you?
Quikdrawspop- Here is my response from pickenup (Moderator).
Have him email nunn, and tell him the reason he wants it changed.
I don't think he would have a problem, considering the reason.
Only an "admin" can do it.
Thanks quikdrawspop.
The gene pool needs chlorine.
You can find nunn in the General Discussion Room just tell him the situation and what you would like for a new handle. That was very nice of you, thanks.
There are two kinds of people in this World....Those who lead....and those who get the hell out of the way...GUT CHECK!...Which one are you?
As I have said, I really don't like politics, but the fight for gun rights is in the political arena. The nra, while I am not happy with all they have done is doing A good job,as far as politics go. It probally will eventually caome to pass that the fed's will ban all firearms. Probally be like they did in Austrila, England, or Canada. If a war like highball is talking about can be avoided, then it is best. I really don't want to ever have to shoot another human being again, but if it is necesary it will happen. Such A war would be A real bloody mess here in the USA. A great many civilans would be kille, or maimed. Many of us would make some big mistakes, like doing A tim mcveigh on oklahoma city type situations. Mcveigh would have been better off to park his van full of amonia nitrate in front of janet reno's office. He would have probally got A little more sympothy from the public, and would have avodided killing children.[}:)]
I see it more as a lull in the storm. A few victories on our side, while the opposition licks their wounds, bides their time, waiting for their next opportunity to strike. There is an ebb and flow to these proceedings. Just because they are not VICIOUSLY attacking our rights at this time, don't be lulled into a false sense of security, thinking they are not attacking, or going to give up....EVER.
While not headline topics, they have not stopped attacking our rights. Below I have listed a few of the bills that are being considered in the house and senate right now. Admittedly, some, if not all (hopefully) will not become law.
IF, as you say, the tide is turning, then WE MUST ATTACK NOW. The NRA (et all) MUST start the process of rescinding ALL of the UNCONSTITUTIONAL guns laws on the books today. There is NO other option. THAT is what I want my money to be used for.
IF the tide IS turning, and we do have an advantage, there will be NO better time. But if they do as I believe they will, passively accepting that the status quo is sufficient, then I will no longer lend support to ANY of our "so called" pro-gun rights advocates. I have listed a second batch of bills being considered right now. Let's see if the NRA, GOA, JPFO or ANY group gets behind ANY of these.
Just wondering. Has anyone received ANY correspondence from ANY gun rights groups, about ANY of these proposed bills? Pro or con?
Here is the first list, some House bills that are under consideration AT THIS TIME. Many of these bills have a mirror image bill in the senate as well.
H.R. 246 (Jackson-Lee)
This bill would prohibit keeping a loaded gun for self-defense -- at the risk of felony prosecution if a child gets hold of the firearm and uses it to cause injury;
H.R. 654 (Moran)
This bill would cover 50 caliber firearms under the National Firearms Act, requiring registration, fingerprints, tax, etc. -- and would prohibit their transfer.
H.R. 711 (Kennedy)
This bill would give the Attorney General comprehensive authority to regulate the "design, manufacture, and performance of, and commerce in" firearms; require testing, certification, and notification by firearms manufacturers and importers; allow unlimited inspections; exempt the government; and enforce its provisions through civil penalties, injunctions, recall, seizure, private causes of action, and criminal penalties.
H.R. 1136 (Engel)
This is the House version of S. 527. This bill would amend current law to give the Attorney General unfettered discretion to determine what handgun ammunition is "armor piercing" -- and can therefore be banned by his unilateral action. It would also REQUIRE the Attorney General to establish new testing standards for "armor piercing bullets" -- possibly setting the stage for a "penetration" standard that could be used to ban all ammunition.
H.R. 1168 (King) and H.R. 1225 (Conyers) are about the same.
These bills would turn all Brady Law records of persons whose names appeared on the Violent Gang and Terrorist Organization File over to the FBI's central operations, which would presumably keep them forever. People like Senator Ted Kennedy and Representatives Don Young have regularly turned up on such FBI lists, and there is some concern that gun dealerships could be classified as "violent gangs" under recent broad definitions of the term.
H.R. 1312 (McCarthy)
This bill would reinstate the ban on semiautomatic firearms and magazines.
H.R. 2217 (Engel & Owens)
This bill would grant the Consumer Products Safety Commission jurisdiction to issue rules concerning handgun locks. (Think the new rules would be that you HAVE TO use them?)
H.R. 1423 (Pacrell, McCarthy, Kennedy, et al.)
This bill would make it a felony to sell any handgun that cannot be "personalized" (i.e., containing an "integral... device or feature that... allows the handgun to be fired only by a particular individual..."). The provision kicks in only upon a finding by the Comptroller General that such technology is "commercially feasible," but it does not appear to have a grandfather clause.
This is the second list, the bills that I would LIKE to see pass.
H.R. 47 (Bartlett)
This bill would affirm the right of a person to use a firearm to defend himself, his family, and his home.
H. R. 947 (Lewis)
This bill would allow a 25% tax credit for the purchase of a residential gun safe.
H.R. 1146 (Paul)
This bill would pull the United States out of the anti-gun United Nations.
H.R. 1288 (Souder)
This bill would repeal the D.C. gun ban.
H.R. 1243 (Hostettler)
This bill would establish a national right to concealed carry for (1) persons with concealed carry licenses, and (2) persons from states like Vermont and Alaska which allow concealed carry without licenses. (I do not agree with having to BEG for a license to carry, this should be a straight law like Vermont has.nationwide)
H.R. 1384 (Gingrey, Kingston, Bradley (N.H.), et al.)
This bill would allow a dealer to sell any firearm to an out-of-state resident at his business or a gun show, so long as the dealer complies with the law of the state where his business is located.
H.R. 1703 (Paul)
This bill would repeal the Brady Law and the sporting purposes exception.
quote:Originally posted by pickenup
I see it more as a lull in the storm. A few victories on our side, while the opposition licks their wounds, bides their time, waiting for their next opportunity to strike. There is an ebb and flow to these proceedings. Just because they are not VICIOUSLY attacking our rights at this time, don't be lulled into a false sense of security, thinking they are not attacking, or going to give up....EVER.
While not headline topics, they have not stopped attacking our rights. Below I have listed a few of the bills that are being considered in the house and senate right now. Admittedly, some, if not all (hopefully) will not become law.
IF, as you say, the tide is turning, then WE MUST ATTACK NOW. The NRA (et all) MUST start the process of rescinding ALL of the UNCONSTITUTIONAL guns laws on the books today. There is NO other option. THAT is what I want my money to be used for.
IF the tide IS turning, and we do have an advantage, there will be NO better time. But if they do as I believe they will, passively accepting that the status quo is sufficient, then I will no longer lend support to ANY of our "so called" pro-gun rights advocates. I have listed a second batch of bills being considered right now. Let's see if the NRA, GOA, JPFO or ANY group gets behind ANY of these.
Just wondering. Has anyone received ANY correspondence from ANY gun rights groups, about ANY of these proposed bills? Pro or con?
Here is the first list, some House bills that are under consideration AT THIS TIME. Many of these bills have a mirror image bill in the senate as well.
H.R. 246 (Jackson-Lee)
This bill would prohibit keeping a loaded gun for self-defense -- at the risk of felony prosecution if a child gets hold of the firearm and uses it to cause injury;
Dumbest snit I ever heard, what good is an unloaded gun. We should go break into theses * homes and see if they have time to load before we're on 'em.
H.R. 654 (Moran)
This bill would cover 50 caliber firearms under the National Firearms Act, requiring registration, fingerprints, tax, etc. -- and would prohibit their transfer.
.50 BMG's are huge guns, what are the so afraid of? I know, someones going to rob a bank with one. No, the only reason they want them out of our hands is because they are afraid we will use them against them.
H.R. 711 (Kennedy)
This bill would give the Attorney General comprehensive authority to regulate the "design, manufacture, and performance of, and commerce in" firearms; require testing, certification, and notification by firearms manufacturers and importers; allow unlimited inspections; exempt the government; and enforce its provisions through civil penalties, injunctions, recall, seizure, private causes of action, and criminal penalties.
No way you fat * butt tool, this goes down in flames or we do.
H.R. 1136 (Engel)
This is the House version of S. 527. This bill would amend current law to give the Attorney General unfettered discretion to determine what handgun ammunition is "armor piercing" -- and can therefore be banned by his unilateral action. It would also REQUIRE the Attorney General to establish new testing standards for "armor piercing bullets" -- possibly setting the stage for a "penetration" standard that could be used to ban all ammunition.
Again, who is it that is so afraid of these things? Surely Hillary and co. aren't scared they are going to get shot with an AP bullet. So who has an intrest in seeing these off the streets? That's right, once again, the Feds. Don't want us to be able to mount any type of fight. F'em
H.R. 1168 (King) and H.R. 1225 (Conyers) are about the same.
These bills would turn all Brady Law records of persons whose names appeared on the Violent Gang and Terrorist Organization File over to the FBI's central operations, which would presumably keep them forever. People like Senator Ted Kennedy and Representatives Don Young have regularly turned up on such FBI lists, and there is some concern that gun dealerships could be classified as "violent gangs" under recent broad definitions of the term.
Who determines who is on this list and by what criteria? No, I don't think so, *.
H.R. 1312 (McCarthy)
This bill would reinstate the ban on semiautomatic firearms and magazines.
Been there, done that. It is pointless, again who has an intrest in us only able to use bolt action, lever action, and single shot rifles? Feds!
H.R. 2217 (Engel & Owens)
This bill would grant the Consumer Products Safety Commission jurisdiction to issue rules concerning handgun locks. (Think the new rules would be that you HAVE TO use them?)
No compromises on stupid meaningless laws that will have zero effect.
H.R. 1423 (Pacrell, McCarthy, Kennedy, et al.)
This bill would make it a felony to sell any handgun that cannot be "personalized" (i.e., containing an "integral... device or feature that... allows the handgun to be fired only by a particular individual..."). The provision kicks in only upon a finding by the Comptroller General that such technology is "commercially feasible," but it does not appear to have a grandfather clause.
These guys are geniuses, not. Come on who in the hell thinks this stuff up? They are just throwing anything they can against the wall to see what sticks. Pathetic. There should be a limit to how many of these bills they can submit every year concerning any one area. It's an F'n joke.
This is the second list, the bills that I would LIKE to see pass.
H.R. 47 (Bartlett)
This bill would affirm the right of a person to use a firearm to defend himself, his family, and his home.
Duh,I don't have anything else to add.
H. R. 947 (Lewis)
This bill would allow a 25% tax credit for the purchase of a residential gun safe.
Has value and makes sense, they won't go for it because they didn't submit it.
H.R. 1146 (Paul)
This bill would pull the United States out of the anti-gun United Nations.
Oh please God make it be true! Best move we could possibly make.
H.R. 1288 (Souder)
This bill would repeal the D.C. gun ban.
Can their crime get any worse? No brainer.
H.R. 1243 (Hostettler)
This bill would establish a national right to concealed carry for (1) persons with concealed carry licenses, and (2) persons from states like Vermont and Alaska which allow concealed carry without licenses. (I do not agree with having to BEG for a license to carry, this should be a straight law like Vermont has.nationwide)
Way too logical, you'll hear some of the most ridiculous arguments ever on this bill.
H.R. 1384 (Gingrey, Kingston, Bradley (N.H.), et al.)
This bill would allow a dealer to sell any firearm to an out-of-state resident at his business or a gun show, so long as the dealer complies with the law of the state where his business is located.
Same check different state, big deal, no winner here.
H.R. 1703 (Paul)
This bill would repeal the Brady Law and the sporting purposes exception.
Someone please show me where it says sporting purposes in the constitution. Brady is a dead mule, time for it to go. It'll never happen, Feds won't let it. Expect to see the JBT's around when they vote on this.
The gene pool needs chlorine.
That's how I see 'em. Thanks for the post, I didn't know about some of these.
There are two kinds of people in this World....Those who lead....and those who get the hell out of the way...GUT CHECK!...Which one are you?
pickenup you are right. the assult on our liberty's is still in full swing. I agree the nra, goa, and other gun right's groups aint doing enough. I simply say they are doing what they can in a political arena. I really despise politics, it is a sad fact of life that we have to deal with them. the kennedy's, fienstien's, and schumer's are a real threat to socitey as a whole. that is were the nra come in to play. in the political arena you sometimes have to sleep with the devil to do the lord's work. it sucks!!!!!!!!!! but it's life. Without them we probally would already be in civil war, or worse. It is possible for the batfags, and all there supporters to pass legislation without letting us know it. the nra prevents that from happening. If they pass legislation that requires all guns turned in the nra would be all over the media letting people knw what an outrage this is and doing all there sissy stuff, but still they would have let us know it time to head to the hills, and organize before they come knocking on our doors. On another statement my wife recently said arint i afraid the jbt's are reading these forum's and know what people are saying. My response is I hope they are. Maybe they will know what they are in for should they try it!!!!!!!![}:)]
The funny part is the JBT's think the majority of us are wackos and are on these forums. I can't wait to see the look on their faces when TSHTF and they find themselves on a city street with guns pointed at them from under cars, out of sewage drains, through trees, out of windows, and trash cans, over truck cabs, out of businesses. Then we'll see if they still think the only people who will fight back are on these forums. I'm the only one out of about 50 that I know who frequents these forums. These guys aren't baby faced kids either, they are veterans of wars, ex-military, ex-LEO, current LEO, all are very intelligent over 35 and dedicated to their cause of freeing America from the jaws of tyranny. I would rather be just about anything but a Fed when that time comes and it ain't far. Hell I say we start a concentration camp and throw the ones that live in there. That's what they have planned for us. You might want to hide your family when we go because they already have laws in place to walk in and take them away never to be seen again and there's nothing that you can do about it. This country is now hell, we're not going in a hand basket, we are there. "Let's Roll"
There are two kinds of people in this World....Those who lead....and those who get the hell out of the way...GUT CHECK!...Which one are you?
Comments
to make all of you anti NRA guys clam
up for so long.[8D]
Educate yourself.
Take a poll of all your NRA buddies. Keep a record of the number that supports gun control..
versus those smart enough to realize that PEOPLE control is the proper answer to crime.
I will NOT support ANY person nor group that advocates gun control. PERIOD.
Anti-NRA ? NAH....I am Anti-Gun control....unfortunately, your nra isn't.
Must you take everything as a personal affront?? I will admit an avail of sarcasm to my last post but did not intend it to be amusing. If you're going to fight the fight I suggest you get a thicker skin or start wearing body armor. I did solicit your input and, I'll know better next time. My point. Your Passion in supporting 2nd amendment rights is admirable; however, I suggest that you take off the blinders. I will TRY to explain without offending you. (If I fail then quite possibly you need to do a little more soul searching.)
As I see it, and profoundly believe, there is a pervasive attitude in this country that "If it doesn't DIRECTLY affect me, let someone else do it" ("Only, If there's something in it for me, will I support it" - "If it would require me to DO something, forget it.") and even then, most will just sit back and complain. The government and the anti's did not begin the assault on constitutional rights with gun control, that's just what Directly affects you. (And, No!! I am not suggesting that is your only concern.)
Although it seems to be acceptable behavior now to spend 8-10 hours per day in front of the boob tube, (The American Nanny) I doubt seriously (actually I KNOW it) that much, if any, of that time is spent watching the news. (Agreed, media coverage is, more often than not, skewed to say the least, and not reliable in itself) As one who didn't have one for 10 years I maintain that I kept myself more informed than most on current events. This requires multiple sources. Does anyone read anymore????
FACTOID: ("Elementary/secondary education costs $300,000,000,000 per year, employing more than 5,000,000 people. Yet, with all that money and personnel, American kids are being handed diplomas they can't read.")
The problem stems from lazy people expecting handouts as well as, greed and a lust for power by our DUELY elected officials. As you well know, most Americans don't/won't vote. WHY?? I will advance that some avoid that responsibility in some naive attempt at anonymity, (you can't hide from big brother) while others justify not voting merely to avoid jury duty. (I also KNOW this to be fact and individual names come to mind but I wouldn't, obviously, name names...You wouldn't know them anyway.) Yet they complain!! Only by the grace of god did we survive 8 years with Clinton. Now, he is trying to take control of NATO and Hillary is posturing for the Whitehouse in 2008 and; she WILL morph into whatever it takes to get her elected. This must Not happen!! (Surely you've heard "It Takes A Village" and, know her opinion of guns.) A Voter Registration campaign for our side is in order.
Shoostright made an excellent point concerning the NRA. Thirty-five dollars is a cheap price to pay for the assurance that Gun Owners maintain a lobby in D.C. Any flawed thinking you perceive aside, I prefer the NRA over no lobby or representation.
I must have hit a hot button somewhere by suggesting reinstitution of the draft. Why would I make such a comment?? Think about WHO actually dreams up and enacts the law of the land. The majority (granted; not all) consists of the ex-hippies, blatant draft dodgers and elitists who dodged military service over the last 50 years and left that to the lower classes. (Yes, I do believe there is a class system in this society.) Patriotism and ensuring your rights, is not at the top of their agenda. Power over you and I is the goal! Instituting and empowering the New World order, making us dependant on BIG government for our very day-to-day existence. Taxing us silly (illegally I might add), then, come to our rescue and tell us how good they are to us. (They give us social security, medi-care, medicaid etc.- no mention of how badly these are managed or what kind of boondoggle they are. Just another example of how government can better provide for you than you could have done yourself.) I firmly believe military service should be mandatory, without exception and without financial incentive to serve. (Here I refer not to pay but to enlistment incentives now required to maintain an all-volunteer force) I have nothing against higher education but feel it should not proffer exception either. Do your service before or after, your choice. As shootstright pointed out it would solve some urban problems as well. Service to your country has an affect on anyone who has experienced it. Mostly positive, with exceptions here as well. You get out what you put in and believe me; an appreciation for how good life is here (however flawed), compared to other parts of the world, sparks something in anyone exposed. The more you appreciate what you have, the more fervently you will fight to protect it if it is threatened. That appreciation, for what it took to get us here, is blatantly absent today. Forgotten?? Not in all cases. U.S.History has been censored. If you have children in school take a look at their history books. The supporters of this new world order have already assured the Constitution and any implied or expressed rights, never enter impressionable minds.
Until everyone in this country wakes up, realizes their very existence as individuals in a (presently) free society is threatened, you will see more and more attempts at legislation that restrict and dictate your life. More government control. As an advocate of 2nd Amendment rights I would encourage you to broaden your spectrum and address solutions to the root cause. Face it more gun laws will just create a new class of criminals. (Law-abiding citizens who refuse to rollover.) That root cause has already enslaved and oppressed the nation. We work to support the very government that dictates how we can live, how and where our children are educated, how, when and where we can/cannot practice or espouse religion. I could go on and on but the point is; even though none (even religious freedom as they interpret/apply it) of the aforementioned examples enjoy express coverage under the Constitution, that merely passing such laws indicates the direction government is headed. The founding fathers created the constitution based on lessons learn from history. Career politicians, greed and lust are now corrupting their very work, at EVERY level of government. You are right. Now is the time to take a stance. The question is; can you see that it must be done on a broader scale???? History does repeat itself.
I submit another web site, recommended by my Girlfriend, for your perusal and that of concerned parents. It may indeed help generate more interest from the female gender. I don't agree with everything he says but cannot claim his thinking as flawed. It does make a most interesting read.
"Here is a web site that I find EXTREMELY informative on many issues about which American citizens should be expressing concern. The articles run the gamut from politics, education, establishment of the new world order and right on to gun control. Read between the lines if necessary, but the overall message in each article is powerful and informative. I recommend reading every one of them. Collectively they'll make you think more seriously about our elected officials (From school board to the President) and the kind of job they have been doing for their constituency".
Don Boys, Ph.D., is a former member of the Indiana House of Representatives, wrote columns for USA Today for eight years, authored 13 books and lives in Ringgold, GA. His book, ISLAM: America's Trojan Horse! was published in March. His web site is: www.CSTNews.com.
Quotes from his work: "There are not enough federal agents with all their guns, badges, etc., to influence my preaching. Period! O course, they can put me in jail, but that will only change my address but not my address".
"Your children are being brainwashed through public education, music, television and movies". And Further Down-- "The culture has kidnapped our children while we slept or watched television".
"I don't believe any public money should be give to any school, from pre-school through university level, at any time under any circumstance whether public or parochial. When that happens, the free market would take over and inferior schools (public and Christian) would go out of business. Then, maybe, the nightmare of public education would become a faint memory as a very foolish, socialist experience by an uninformed American public--and taxpayers would rejoice again from sea to shining sea."
"Legislators who think that gun bans will have any impact on crime are unthinking, uncaring, unconstitutional and should be unemployed."
I think you make an excellent point concerning the NRA. Thirty-five dollars is a cheap price to pay for the assurance that Gun Owners maintain a lobby in D.C. Any flawed thinking you perceive aside, I prefer the NRA over no lobby or representation.
I won't make any more friends with this comment but once again in a general sense it is absolutely true. When anti's join a cause it's because of some single ideal that fits their mind set. Before you trip out, my comment here is based more in line with my opinion of members of organizations like PETA. However; to anyone reading this; if the shoe fits, wear it. They are issued (or already have them on) a set of blinders, see only what they want to see, and the radicalism that follows leads to their rejection as a whole and ultimately; ineffectually and demise. Recent history is full of examples I could use here. Many organizations have fallen from grace with the informed (voters) Solely because of their stand on a Single agenda. My way or the highway - All or nothing, representing themselves (or animals) as a persecuted minority, just don't sell anymore. Everyone feels persecuted in some manor now days and sympathy has been reserved for self. The one trick pony is dead. Without compromise, no one agenda organization will ever survive to fruition and benefit the masses. Here, I add, the NRA is no one trick pony and does benefit the like-minded masses that, in turn, support them.
Let me have the honor of been your 1st poll response. I SUPPORT your statement and the NRA.
You will find I have a VERY thick skin.
However..if you insist in throwing mud..expect twice as much coming back YOUR way.
You make a serious mistake assuming that I am ignorant of the multitude of methods used by the enemies of freedom to gain their ends.
You might step back a moment and actually THINK...You come on this forum and attack me...for YOUR preceived notions of who, what and where I stand.
Now...your last post contains many truths..It no doubt would pain you ENDLESSY to find if you went back thru MY posts over the last 3-4 years most of the exact same sentiments expressed.
Save the NRA advertisment. THAT you will NOT find...I stopped believing in tooth fairies many years ago.
I leave you with this thought;
I have been watching the disintgration of this country for 45 years. I have availed myself of MANY forms of information..some you no doubt know nothing about. I doubt you can teach me anything about the subjects we speak of.
HOwever...I am listening.
Comengetit came on this forum..and we bumped heads several times. After a period of adjustment...we ALL have learned things from his invaluble contributions herein.
You can continue to attack me...or we can discuss the issues. Your choice.
You speak of getting educated?? Your miss interpretation of capitulation by the NRA as condoning gun control is very reflective. Fight the battle you can win today and live to fight another day where you have to; would be a more proper translation. Picking the battles and fighting for those who will support them at the polls came from experience. As I said before, you got a problem with the way they represent You, Tell Them.
For the most part, I believe this is an open-minded group. That is not to say that everything is open for debate as I too am firmly planted on some issues. Highball, for example, is firmly planted on the issue of compromise when it comes to gun control. I completely understand where he is coming from and because of these discussions, have also become firm in my stance against said compromises. There will, inevitably, be those that will disagree stating that something is better than nothing and for all intents and purposes, they would be correct. Some are gamblers, some are not.
If you were out on a hunting trip and suddenly found yourself in a war zone whereby you witnessed people being herded into cattle cars by no more than six armed men, would you;
a. Use your gun in an all or nothing attempt to free those held captive, knowing you may very well die.
b. Would you try and keep the train in view while you tried to recruit help from your fellow citizens.
c. would you seek out U.S. military support so as they may free those held captive.
or
d. Would you just go home saying "it is none of my business."
Most of you here would choose either a, b, or c, but they would still be different paths to acquire the same result. By seeking help from citizens, you are sharing the glory of the rescue. By telling the soldiers of the news you are passing the glory onto someone else, as well as the burden. By taking on the task yourself you have a chance at great glory and also have a high risk of death. I don't think anyone would have chosen "d" at least not here anyway.
My point is as long as we all seek the same end goal, does it really matter how we get there. Is it not possible to give and take until the balance shifts our way at which time we may go after all 20,000+ gun laws or should we throw caution to the wind and go for it all in one fell swoop, an all or nothing approach? Or we can all sit back and let someone else whom may or may not do something about it have the reigns? It's a choice and which one is right we may never know so I think as responsible adults we must take the avenue that gives us the best chance at total repeal of all gun laws, which ever that may be. Hence the raeson we debate the topic here.
I have not yet committed to either school of thought, I am still weighing pro's and con's as they are uncovered. So we continue to discuss and this is where those new voices can really make a difference. All it takes is one peson to come up with the right angle and we are all in, I'm sure. Highball, I am now of a belief that forcing the gun ban is not in our best interest because I can see the writing on the wall. We would have no shot of reviving the second amendment once it is dead. They will simply say, "you wanted it, you got it." "End of argument." I have made this determination after careful consideration of all the facts and some of the theories, it just seems logical to first get the ball back in our court before trying to put it away. Maybe I'm wrong, that's just how I see it.
As I can best tell, the tide is shifting our way. I think the most important thing that can happen after Judge Alito is confirmed, should be that we make damn sure the Clintons stay out of the Presidents seat and for that matter, no Democrat should ever be President again, they're just so Gosh Dang wrong in their thinking. I believe that can be proven. Do you know what the saddest thing about a Democratic Liberal is? They know they are wrong but are now so committed to their tenet that they can never revert back to the right side of politics. They are stuck in a quagmire of self pity and doubt.
Quikdrawspop, With all that being said, will you please stop beginning your comments with a plea for acceptance. Everyone has their views and usually here in gun rights the flaming does not get too bad. Speak your piece, if someone can't handle it then debate it. I see no reason for anything to ever get personal or nasty, if you are losing the debate, whoever that may be, suck it up and admit it. Don't resort to name calling and insults, if we stoop to that level, we are no different than the politics room and that room is really bad.
There are two kinds of people in this World....Those who lead....and those who get the hell out of the way...GUT CHECK!...Which one are you?
parabellem
Noted.
Yes, the tides are turning....red.
We enter ever more into the cesspool of Socialism/Fascism..we need new words to describe the slavery of 65% taxation/total information gathering/swat teams on every corner/20,000 gun law nation...the old ones fail me.
The NRA ? There is a man on this forum that has compiled a impressive amount of data concerning the NRA's "Compitulation" on gun laws. Perhaps he would post it. It TRULY makes sickening reading.
I think you are probably right, Highball it's just too big a risk at this juncture. I think we would be better served to jump in bed with the NRA and GOA one last time and see where it goes. If they fail this time then they will always fail. You just don't get gifts like this every day, they'd better do something with it. So for now I'm rah, rah, rah, NRA and GOA anything else is just not going to get it done.
In your statement, Highball, you stated that you were willing to bet on that 3% coming through, are you really? Do you see that 3% coming to the forefront and getting it done? You realize everyone from the President down to little Timmy, the next door neighbor, will be against us. The media, with the governments guidance, will make us out to be terrorist, they will take our families into custody as terrorist sympathizers. We won't know where they are being held and the will and spirit of our brave patriots will be broken. But, we will have no alternative but to fight on as the only thing waiting for us will be a treason charge and we will either be exiled or killed. I can only see fighting as a last resort. We will have to be prepared to never see our loved ones again and fight to the death, for it truly will be, "Give me Liberty or Give Me Death." I see great irony in that.
As you say we pay 65% taxes, I challenge everyone to show me where the law that says we must pay income tax, as an individual, or suffer consequences. I've looked quite deeply and there is verbaige that lends itself to an interpretation but later contradicts itself by definition. I would be very interested to see what you all come up with. You want to halt the giant machine, stop paying taxes as a nation. That would shut down government in a matter of weeks. Then we could start all over again wth Ron Paul as President.
There are two kinds of people in this World....Those who lead....and those who get the hell out of the way...GUT CHECK!...Which one are you?
interest, new ideas.
Work on this school thing. If they
get the minds of your kids, when your
gone they win.[8D]
Just wondering. You have stated in your last few posts in this thread, that we are making progress, or that the tide is shifting our way. Other than one person being "nominated" to the supreme court, and a few states enacting a CCW law (Which I consider UN-constitutional by the way, all states should be like the Vermont CCW law, or lack of [;)]) where is this "progress" you speak of?
As to fighting. Yes, it would get REAL ugly. That is why the 3% number (which I question) is so low. Our forefathers knew it would get ugly back then. MANY MANY names did not make it into the history books, they paid the ultimate price for what they believed in, their life. Would even 3% of gun owners do it today? It would surely separate the men from the boys.
On income tax. Agreed that a "federal" income tax is not legal. Please show me people who have fought this, using the "it's not legal" argument, and won. It's not so much whether it is legal or not, it is that a precedent has already been established. Same as the UNCONSTITUTIONAL gun laws.
I'll leave my thoughts on the NRA out of THIS thread.
The gene pool needs chlorine.
www.givemeliberty.org
Constitutional Income
http://www.constitutionalincome.com/
A female perspective:
http://www.galleryofguns.com/shootingtimes/Articles/DisplayArticles.asp?ID=62
AMMO BOX E-mail supplies;
http://www.rkba.org/comment/cowards.html
http://www.barefootsworld.net/admiralty.html
Once the gun grabbers realize their fight is futile, they will quietly disappear into the night, in the meantime we have things like New Orleans that are opening eyes. I can feel the momentum changing all around me. Most important on the 'to do' list; kepp the Democrats out of office, if we get another eight year Republican in office it will crush the anti-gun movement. This is about guns now, this isn't the time or place to argue the politics of such an occurrence. Everyone has different views as to how the current Presidency is handling the country and, quite frankly, those are irrelevant in this discussion. I know of only a very few Democrats that support gun ownership and none of them are coming up for office, HILLARY MUST NOT WIN!!!!!!! This is why we should spend the next two years educating women as we have already discussed. Go down and talk to the range owner, tell him/her what you are trying to do and why, you may get free range time to hold your classes, you may get more support than that.
Oh, the tide she is a changin' and it feels good. We are nowhere near out of the woods but I'm beginning to see daylight. I am speaking ONLY of our gun rights, this does nothing to point out how we are being systematically imprisoned via law after stupid law. These will be next after we have a firm hold on the gun issue. This is going to be pushed to the Supreme Court now and the NRA and GOA have all of our money so they are the logical choices.
I know your feelings on the NRA and GOA but, they have a powerful weapon to wield now and I am going to give them the benefit of a doubt and see what they can do. As I said, if they fail then I am forever off their wagon.
There are two kinds of people in this World....Those who lead....and those who get the hell out of the way...GUT CHECK!...Which one are you?
http://www.barefootsworld.net/tripwire.html
If you have high blood pressure don't read this.
http://www.barefootsworld.net/admiralty.html
Yeah, I posted that earlier in this thread or another one about three weeks ago. Isn't that just the most unbelievable thing ever? I was in court with a friend of mine the other day and, sure enough, right there in the corner, the U.S. Stars and Stripes with a yellow fringe all around three sides, sickening.
There are two kinds of people in this World....Those who lead....and those who get the hell out of the way...GUT CHECK!...Which one are you?
Guidance for when an armed revolt may be considered by some. Referenced books at the top are not a bad read either.
http://www.barefootsworld.net/tripwire.html
Posted that one too, good reading and can really get yah thinking.
There are two kinds of people in this World....Those who lead....and those who get the hell out of the way...GUT CHECK!...Which one are you?
"I am speaking ONLY of our gun rights, this does nothing to point out how we are being systematically imprisoned via law after stupid law. These will be next after we have a firm hold on the gun issue."
Rather than offer my opinion, I will refer you to a quote from Tripwire that supports why.
---Laws that make nugatory the means of resisting tyranny and despotism determine the tripwire. The creeping legislative erosion of the 2nd Amendment is not the only tripwire that justifies resistance. We submit that any gun control is a secondary tripwire. Not only because it can be effortlessly evaded, but also because it strengthens our cause. It is second only to censorship. If speech is illegal we can discuss neither repeal of gun control, or the repeal of any other unconstitutional "law." Censorship is not a tripwire, it is THE tripwire. Thus, by default, censorship morally justifies rebellion.---
I did not know you had posted these sites. Amazing how like minds work.
I only disagree with one statement in your previous post.
"I am speaking ONLY of our gun rights, this does nothing to point out how we are being systematically imprisoned via law after stupid law. These will be next after we have a firm hold on the gun issue."
Rather than offer my opinion, I will refer you to a quote from Tripwire that supports why.
---Laws that make nugatory the means of resisting tyranny and despotism determine the tripwire. The creeping legislative erosion of the 2nd Amendment is not the only tripwire that justifies resistance. We submit that any gun control is a secondary tripwire. Not only because it can be effortlessly evaded, but also because it strengthens our cause. It is second only to censorship. If speech is illegal we can discuss neither repeal of gun control, or the repeal of any other unconstitutional "law." Censorship is not a tripwire, it is THE tripwire. Thus, by default, censorship morally justifies rebellion.---
I did not know you had posted these sites. Amazing how like minds work.
I agree, maybe I should have elaborated more. What I meant was, if we have our guns and they are not aiming to get them anymore then we are able to fight back against the other injustices but without our guns it is rather futile. I wanted to head off all of the comments that would address all of the other issues at hand as they are quite numerous. If the JBT's and govt. realize that they ain't gettin' the guns, they will try and back door us, which is what they are doing now. We have to recognize this and defend appropriately, with our guns. Does that make sense?[:)]
There are two kinds of people in this World....Those who lead....and those who get the hell out of the way...GUT CHECK!...Which one are you?
Don't forget about BILL. The Clinton Goal is WORLD dominance. Bill in control of NATO, Hillary as President. Why do you think they sabotaged Kerry in the end when he needed their support?? You want a nightmare?? STOP BILL Also.
Good point, I love the way the media is leaving this whole topic alone as if to wish to sneak it by us. Bill being in charge of NATO I don't so much worry about, but combine that with Hillary as President and good Lord what a mess. They may be the two headed anti-Christ. Women, generally and instinctively, hate other women, I'm not making this up. I have tested this theory with probably more than 2,000 women and 98% do not like other women. They don't trust them, I think Hillary has already lost. I am concerned with what the GOP does though, putting Condi up against Hillary is a mistake of gigantic proportions. We had better come up with a big shot male candidate or we may just get that nightmare you spoke of.
There are two kinds of people in this World....Those who lead....and those who get the hell out of the way...GUT CHECK!...Which one are you?
I agree, maybe I should have elaborated more. What I meant was, if we have our guns and they are not aiming to get them anymore then we are able to fight back against the other injustices but without our guns it is rather futile. I wanted to head off all of the comments that would address all of the other issues at hand as they are quite numerous. If the JBT's and govt. realize that they ain't gettin' the guns, they will try and back door us, which is what they are doing now. We have to recognize this and defend appropriately, with our guns. Does that make sense?[:)]
The other comments ARE what makes this an Issue.
quote:Originally posted by quikdrawspop
Don't forget about BILL. The Clinton Goal is WORLD dominance. Bill in control of NATO, Hillary as President. Why do you think they sabotaged Kerry in the end when he needed their support?? You want a nightmare?? STOP BILL Also.
Good point, I love the way the media is leaving this whole topic alone as if to wish to sneak it by us. Bill being in charge of NATO I don't so much worry about, but combine that with Hillary as President and good Lord what a mess. They may be the two headed anti-Christ. Women, generally and instinctively, hate other women, I'm not making this up. I have tested this theory with probably more than 2,000 women and 98% do not like other women. They don't trust them, I think Hillary has already lost. I am concerned with what the GOP does though, putting Condi up against Hillary is a mistake of gigantic proportions. We had better come up with a big shot male candidate or we may just get that nightmare you spoke of.
There are two kinds of people in this World....Those who lead....and those who get the hell out of the way...GUT CHECK!...Which one are you?
You under estimate the Clinton's. Their ability to Morph with public opinion is their greatest asset and one which they have mastered. They are not above blatant lies to gain support.(Did you know Hillary is Jewish now?) I agree with your stats about women hating each other but that won't stop them from voting for Hillary if they can be brainwashed.(Note my previous reference to "Commander In Chief"-- Scripted by Clint staffers.) Condi? Good prospect based on the Clint posturing but,I would like to see more names before offering my total support.
There are two kinds of people in this World....Those who lead....and those who get the hell out of the way...GUT CHECK!...Which one are you?
There are two kinds of people in this World....Those who lead....and those who get the hell out of the way...GUT CHECK!...Which one are you?
Then only when the Brits marched to take those arms.
I am content to observe your actions from the sidelines. I refuse to wade in the sewage with the politicians any more,and joining forces with the ice cream's of NRA appeals not one iota at all.
You guys have dug out a lot of information.Congratulations. I could post this stuff..but to what purpose..if you are not interested enough to dig it out..you would'nt read it anyway.
Appears to me...some of you all that profess to be 'new' at critical study of the beast...have been around the horn.
My job is simple. I point out the inevitable outcome if you fail in your endeavors. Some reading that WILL study how to survive that tragic event. Those are the people I wish to reach.
I have no interest in the garbage wishing only for the status quo..willing to forever more appease the beast for the privilege of breathing.
Harsh words..? You bet. We used to be a nation not afraid to speak words that may perhaps insult someone. Some of us are throw-backs....
quote:The Colonists exhausted every avenue before force of arms was resorted to.
Then only when the Brits marched to take those arms.
Incomplete, but I think I get your meaning. Are we not of like minds on this?
quote:I am content to observe your actions from the sidelines. I refuse to wade in the sewage with the politicians any more,and joining forces with the ice cream's of NRA appeals not one iota at all.
I don't intend on wading with the politicians either and I certaily will not crawl on my belly. All I am saying is there is a golden opportunity for us to avoid much bloodshed, wouldn't it then be prudent to explore the opportunities as they present themselves? As far as the NRA, I know where you stand on this issue and I don't disagree, however, I don't see as where we have much of a choice right now. They have all the power and money, we here are few and lack any kind of political power. Given the time necessary to build an organization able to combat these unconstitutional laws, I have no doubt that we would be successful in our endevour. Time is not a luxury that we possess.
quote:You guys have dug out a lot of information.Congratulations. I could post this stuff..but to what purpose..if you are not interested enough to dig it out..you would'nt read it anyway.
If you have more information that you feel is prudent then by all means please post it. I think we have shown our desire for knowledge, not that we need validate ourselves. You have fought the fight for many years and I respect that, but you appear to have quit. Just when the tables are turning, you have decided to stay on the sidelines, I can, likewise, respect your decision. Where I have my problem Highball is in the fact that you appear to be far more knowledgable in these particular arenas and you are not sharing that knowledge with those wanting to learn. That is truly a waste. You've made some excellent points since I joined this forum, even changed my thinking in a couple of areas and for this I say thank you, but it is not productive at all for one with such a vast knowledge of the title in question to gaurd such knowledge from those who may best use it.
quote:Appears to me...some of you all that profess to be 'new' at critical study of the beast...have been around the horn.
I can't speak for anyone else here but my interest in this is about as old as my membership to this forum. I have always been a gun owner but one who never paid attention to gun ordinances, as long as I could keep mine I didn't care. When I read a couple of posts here I got enlightened to the injustices being done to our citizens. Was I a sheeple? In every sense of the word, yes! That has all changed and I now wish to do whatever I can within my power to see that the ship gets righted. I see a tremendous problem with the law of Admiralty. I discovered this quite by accident and was disgusted when I did. Once I set my mind to something it's hard for anyone to stop the train from running.
quote:My job is simple. I point out the inevitable outcome if you fail in your endeavors. Some reading that WILL study how to survive that tragic event. Those are the people I wish to reach.
I'm afraid I don't understand this comment, who are you trying to reach? And if this is to be your job, then fantastic that's doing more than 99.5% of the citizens can say.
quote:I have no interest in the garbage wishing only for the status quo..willing to forever more appease the beast for the privilege of breathing.
Harsh words..? You bet. We used to be a nation not afraid to speak words that may perhaps insult someone. Some of us are throw-backs....
I have no interest in that garbage either. Do I appear to be satisfied with the status quo? If I do then I had better do a much better job of projecting my intentions. I wish to see every gun law repealed and will not be satisfied until that happens, along with an entirely new, much smaller government.
Highball, don't get me wrong, we are still on the same side here, I just can't sit back and wait. Perhaps our involvement will somehow spur the total ban, that you look for, into reality. Don't take that out of context, I know what you mean and I understand the reasoning behind it. I'm just not all thrilled to go out and get shot if I don't have to and I'm sure my wife would appreciate that I don't get shot either. Oh, I'm still going when it's game time, take that to the bank but I am also a pretty intelligent person and if I don't have to get shot, I don't think I will. With that being said, I must explore and exhaust all possible avenues before I submit to warfare.
There are two kinds of people in this World....Those who lead....and those who get the hell out of the way...GUT CHECK!...Which one are you?
Have him email nunn, and tell him the reason he wants it changed.
I don't think he would have a problem, considering the reason.
Only an "admin" can do it.
Thanks quikdrawspop.
The gene pool needs chlorine.
You can find nunn in the General Discussion Room just tell him the situation and what you would like for a new handle. That was very nice of you, thanks.
There are two kinds of people in this World....Those who lead....and those who get the hell out of the way...GUT CHECK!...Which one are you?
I can not seem to change my handle due to my web address. Truely need help here.
Drafted message to quikdraw67 and wondered if you could pass it to him or even advise the attempt.
parabellem
Email sent. This is the guy in TX right???
While not headline topics, they have not stopped attacking our rights. Below I have listed a few of the bills that are being considered in the house and senate right now. Admittedly, some, if not all (hopefully) will not become law.
IF, as you say, the tide is turning, then WE MUST ATTACK NOW. The NRA (et all) MUST start the process of rescinding ALL of the UNCONSTITUTIONAL guns laws on the books today. There is NO other option. THAT is what I want my money to be used for.
IF the tide IS turning, and we do have an advantage, there will be NO better time. But if they do as I believe they will, passively accepting that the status quo is sufficient, then I will no longer lend support to ANY of our "so called" pro-gun rights advocates. I have listed a second batch of bills being considered right now. Let's see if the NRA, GOA, JPFO or ANY group gets behind ANY of these.
Just wondering. Has anyone received ANY correspondence from ANY gun rights groups, about ANY of these proposed bills? Pro or con?
Here is the first list, some House bills that are under consideration AT THIS TIME. Many of these bills have a mirror image bill in the senate as well.
H.R. 246 (Jackson-Lee)
This bill would prohibit keeping a loaded gun for self-defense -- at the risk of felony prosecution if a child gets hold of the firearm and uses it to cause injury;
H.R. 654 (Moran)
This bill would cover 50 caliber firearms under the National Firearms Act, requiring registration, fingerprints, tax, etc. -- and would prohibit their transfer.
H.R. 711 (Kennedy)
This bill would give the Attorney General comprehensive authority to regulate the "design, manufacture, and performance of, and commerce in" firearms; require testing, certification, and notification by firearms manufacturers and importers; allow unlimited inspections; exempt the government; and enforce its provisions through civil penalties, injunctions, recall, seizure, private causes of action, and criminal penalties.
H.R. 1136 (Engel)
This is the House version of S. 527. This bill would amend current law to give the Attorney General unfettered discretion to determine what handgun ammunition is "armor piercing" -- and can therefore be banned by his unilateral action. It would also REQUIRE the Attorney General to establish new testing standards for "armor piercing bullets" -- possibly setting the stage for a "penetration" standard that could be used to ban all ammunition.
H.R. 1168 (King) and H.R. 1225 (Conyers) are about the same.
These bills would turn all Brady Law records of persons whose names appeared on the Violent Gang and Terrorist Organization File over to the FBI's central operations, which would presumably keep them forever. People like Senator Ted Kennedy and Representatives Don Young have regularly turned up on such FBI lists, and there is some concern that gun dealerships could be classified as "violent gangs" under recent broad definitions of the term.
H.R. 1312 (McCarthy)
This bill would reinstate the ban on semiautomatic firearms and magazines.
H.R. 2217 (Engel & Owens)
This bill would grant the Consumer Products Safety Commission jurisdiction to issue rules concerning handgun locks. (Think the new rules would be that you HAVE TO use them?)
H.R. 1423 (Pacrell, McCarthy, Kennedy, et al.)
This bill would make it a felony to sell any handgun that cannot be "personalized" (i.e., containing an "integral... device or feature that... allows the handgun to be fired only by a particular individual..."). The provision kicks in only upon a finding by the Comptroller General that such technology is "commercially feasible," but it does not appear to have a grandfather clause.
This is the second list, the bills that I would LIKE to see pass.
H.R. 47 (Bartlett)
This bill would affirm the right of a person to use a firearm to defend himself, his family, and his home.
H. R. 947 (Lewis)
This bill would allow a 25% tax credit for the purchase of a residential gun safe.
H.R. 1146 (Paul)
This bill would pull the United States out of the anti-gun United Nations.
H.R. 1288 (Souder)
This bill would repeal the D.C. gun ban.
H.R. 1243 (Hostettler)
This bill would establish a national right to concealed carry for (1) persons with concealed carry licenses, and (2) persons from states like Vermont and Alaska which allow concealed carry without licenses. (I do not agree with having to BEG for a license to carry, this should be a straight law like Vermont has.nationwide)
H.R. 1384 (Gingrey, Kingston, Bradley (N.H.), et al.)
This bill would allow a dealer to sell any firearm to an out-of-state resident at his business or a gun show, so long as the dealer complies with the law of the state where his business is located.
H.R. 1703 (Paul)
This bill would repeal the Brady Law and the sporting purposes exception.
The gene pool needs chlorine.
There are two kinds of people in this World....Those who lead....and those who get the hell out of the way...GUT CHECK!...Which one are you?
I see it more as a lull in the storm. A few victories on our side, while the opposition licks their wounds, bides their time, waiting for their next opportunity to strike. There is an ebb and flow to these proceedings. Just because they are not VICIOUSLY attacking our rights at this time, don't be lulled into a false sense of security, thinking they are not attacking, or going to give up....EVER.
While not headline topics, they have not stopped attacking our rights. Below I have listed a few of the bills that are being considered in the house and senate right now. Admittedly, some, if not all (hopefully) will not become law.
IF, as you say, the tide is turning, then WE MUST ATTACK NOW. The NRA (et all) MUST start the process of rescinding ALL of the UNCONSTITUTIONAL guns laws on the books today. There is NO other option. THAT is what I want my money to be used for.
IF the tide IS turning, and we do have an advantage, there will be NO better time. But if they do as I believe they will, passively accepting that the status quo is sufficient, then I will no longer lend support to ANY of our "so called" pro-gun rights advocates. I have listed a second batch of bills being considered right now. Let's see if the NRA, GOA, JPFO or ANY group gets behind ANY of these.
Just wondering. Has anyone received ANY correspondence from ANY gun rights groups, about ANY of these proposed bills? Pro or con?
Here is the first list, some House bills that are under consideration AT THIS TIME. Many of these bills have a mirror image bill in the senate as well.
H.R. 246 (Jackson-Lee)
This bill would prohibit keeping a loaded gun for self-defense -- at the risk of felony prosecution if a child gets hold of the firearm and uses it to cause injury;
Dumbest snit I ever heard, what good is an unloaded gun. We should go break into theses * homes and see if they have time to load before we're on 'em.
H.R. 654 (Moran)
This bill would cover 50 caliber firearms under the National Firearms Act, requiring registration, fingerprints, tax, etc. -- and would prohibit their transfer.
.50 BMG's are huge guns, what are the so afraid of? I know, someones going to rob a bank with one. No, the only reason they want them out of our hands is because they are afraid we will use them against them.
H.R. 711 (Kennedy)
This bill would give the Attorney General comprehensive authority to regulate the "design, manufacture, and performance of, and commerce in" firearms; require testing, certification, and notification by firearms manufacturers and importers; allow unlimited inspections; exempt the government; and enforce its provisions through civil penalties, injunctions, recall, seizure, private causes of action, and criminal penalties.
No way you fat * butt tool, this goes down in flames or we do.
H.R. 1136 (Engel)
This is the House version of S. 527. This bill would amend current law to give the Attorney General unfettered discretion to determine what handgun ammunition is "armor piercing" -- and can therefore be banned by his unilateral action. It would also REQUIRE the Attorney General to establish new testing standards for "armor piercing bullets" -- possibly setting the stage for a "penetration" standard that could be used to ban all ammunition.
Again, who is it that is so afraid of these things? Surely Hillary and co. aren't scared they are going to get shot with an AP bullet. So who has an intrest in seeing these off the streets? That's right, once again, the Feds. Don't want us to be able to mount any type of fight. F'em
H.R. 1168 (King) and H.R. 1225 (Conyers) are about the same.
These bills would turn all Brady Law records of persons whose names appeared on the Violent Gang and Terrorist Organization File over to the FBI's central operations, which would presumably keep them forever. People like Senator Ted Kennedy and Representatives Don Young have regularly turned up on such FBI lists, and there is some concern that gun dealerships could be classified as "violent gangs" under recent broad definitions of the term.
Who determines who is on this list and by what criteria? No, I don't think so, *.
H.R. 1312 (McCarthy)
This bill would reinstate the ban on semiautomatic firearms and magazines.
Been there, done that. It is pointless, again who has an intrest in us only able to use bolt action, lever action, and single shot rifles? Feds!
H.R. 2217 (Engel & Owens)
This bill would grant the Consumer Products Safety Commission jurisdiction to issue rules concerning handgun locks. (Think the new rules would be that you HAVE TO use them?)
No compromises on stupid meaningless laws that will have zero effect.
H.R. 1423 (Pacrell, McCarthy, Kennedy, et al.)
This bill would make it a felony to sell any handgun that cannot be "personalized" (i.e., containing an "integral... device or feature that... allows the handgun to be fired only by a particular individual..."). The provision kicks in only upon a finding by the Comptroller General that such technology is "commercially feasible," but it does not appear to have a grandfather clause.
These guys are geniuses, not. Come on who in the hell thinks this stuff up? They are just throwing anything they can against the wall to see what sticks. Pathetic. There should be a limit to how many of these bills they can submit every year concerning any one area. It's an F'n joke.
This is the second list, the bills that I would LIKE to see pass.
H.R. 47 (Bartlett)
This bill would affirm the right of a person to use a firearm to defend himself, his family, and his home.
Duh,I don't have anything else to add.
H. R. 947 (Lewis)
This bill would allow a 25% tax credit for the purchase of a residential gun safe.
Has value and makes sense, they won't go for it because they didn't submit it.
H.R. 1146 (Paul)
This bill would pull the United States out of the anti-gun United Nations.
Oh please God make it be true! Best move we could possibly make.
H.R. 1288 (Souder)
This bill would repeal the D.C. gun ban.
Can their crime get any worse? No brainer.
H.R. 1243 (Hostettler)
This bill would establish a national right to concealed carry for (1) persons with concealed carry licenses, and (2) persons from states like Vermont and Alaska which allow concealed carry without licenses. (I do not agree with having to BEG for a license to carry, this should be a straight law like Vermont has.nationwide)
Way too logical, you'll hear some of the most ridiculous arguments ever on this bill.
H.R. 1384 (Gingrey, Kingston, Bradley (N.H.), et al.)
This bill would allow a dealer to sell any firearm to an out-of-state resident at his business or a gun show, so long as the dealer complies with the law of the state where his business is located.
Same check different state, big deal, no winner here.
H.R. 1703 (Paul)
This bill would repeal the Brady Law and the sporting purposes exception.
Someone please show me where it says sporting purposes in the constitution. Brady is a dead mule, time for it to go. It'll never happen, Feds won't let it. Expect to see the JBT's around when they vote on this.
The gene pool needs chlorine.
That's how I see 'em. Thanks for the post, I didn't know about some of these.
There are two kinds of people in this World....Those who lead....and those who get the hell out of the way...GUT CHECK!...Which one are you?
parabellem
There are two kinds of people in this World....Those who lead....and those who get the hell out of the way...GUT CHECK!...Which one are you?