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READ THIS !! ATF is closing all gun stores
Locust Fork
Member Posts: 32,000 ✭✭✭✭
It is no secret the ATF has always been against the small gun shops of Alabama. I do not know how it is in any other area, but in Birmingham if you are in the gun business you have a large fear of the ATF. This is because of the way the agency handles the people who are in the gun business. We are treated like the mob at times. Hidden cameras, sudden inspections, sting operations that make movies look like real life. That is history, but the latest tactics are a threat to everyone. You do not have any right to own a gun if you cannot buy one. A new policy (Three Strikes) by the ATF will eliminate the possibility of buying a gun if allowed to go on. Each year the ATF is allowed to audit a gun shop. I know for a fact if the agents do not find errors they are sent back and told to continue until they find something. Any error counts. (Yes, this HAS happened)
First Strike.....The ATF conducts the standard audit and (of course) a mistake is found. Then, a Letter Of Warning is given to the store.
Second Strike...The second year the same type of inspection is conducted and errors are found, leading to a Meeting with ATF officials.
Third Strike.....The standard audit and errors this time mean the federal firearms license is Revoked. Without an FFL the store cannot sell guns.
The errors mentioned previously are not what you would think could be so critical. A few examples **A multiple purchase form is required if more than 1 handgun is purchased within 5 business days. Some buyers try to avoid these by having different salespeople help them with individual sales. Confederate Memorial day does not count as a business day, along with all other holidays.** **The 4473 (yellow sheet) must be filled out by the customer and some of the handwriting is very illegible.** **If a gun is put in layaway and not picked up within 30 days the paperwork is null and must be redone.** **If a gun (not owned by the store) is left for repair, it must be logged in and out similar to all other guns.** **Some forms require that you include the country a gun was imported from even though it does not say so anywhere on the form.** There are memos sent out from time to time with very important changes in the way things are done. If you miss the memo, you could pay dearly. Sometimes an ATF inspector has a different opinion about how some parts of the yellow sheet are to be completed. Correct for one may be a mistake for the next. (Try arguing with either and see where it gets you) Laws do not have to change to take guns away. The ability to sell guns is going away and that means the ability to get a gun will be gone soon.
The real problem is that the majority of people that sell guns are very responsible. They should not be forced to defend simple human mistakes as if they were on the street selling guns illegally. If the ATF had the resources and did this to every store that sells firearms all gun stores would be out of business by the year 2009. Rather than being a helpful tool that a seller could use, the ATF would rather the stores that sell guns quietly close.
What can be done about this? Some local stores are well into the last of the process and very close to closing. Something has to be done. If you got a speeding ticket one each year in three years, and lost your drivers license.. would you be upset? There really is nothing to compare it to. If you have plans to buy a gun, better to do it soon unless we can stop this from happening.
What's next, freedom of speech, freedom of religion? If the second amendment can be taken away (through the back door) why not the first? Also, this is NOT being done by a vote of congress but by a simple policy change.
First Strike.....The ATF conducts the standard audit and (of course) a mistake is found. Then, a Letter Of Warning is given to the store.
Second Strike...The second year the same type of inspection is conducted and errors are found, leading to a Meeting with ATF officials.
Third Strike.....The standard audit and errors this time mean the federal firearms license is Revoked. Without an FFL the store cannot sell guns.
The errors mentioned previously are not what you would think could be so critical. A few examples **A multiple purchase form is required if more than 1 handgun is purchased within 5 business days. Some buyers try to avoid these by having different salespeople help them with individual sales. Confederate Memorial day does not count as a business day, along with all other holidays.** **The 4473 (yellow sheet) must be filled out by the customer and some of the handwriting is very illegible.** **If a gun is put in layaway and not picked up within 30 days the paperwork is null and must be redone.** **If a gun (not owned by the store) is left for repair, it must be logged in and out similar to all other guns.** **Some forms require that you include the country a gun was imported from even though it does not say so anywhere on the form.** There are memos sent out from time to time with very important changes in the way things are done. If you miss the memo, you could pay dearly. Sometimes an ATF inspector has a different opinion about how some parts of the yellow sheet are to be completed. Correct for one may be a mistake for the next. (Try arguing with either and see where it gets you) Laws do not have to change to take guns away. The ability to sell guns is going away and that means the ability to get a gun will be gone soon.
The real problem is that the majority of people that sell guns are very responsible. They should not be forced to defend simple human mistakes as if they were on the street selling guns illegally. If the ATF had the resources and did this to every store that sells firearms all gun stores would be out of business by the year 2009. Rather than being a helpful tool that a seller could use, the ATF would rather the stores that sell guns quietly close.
What can be done about this? Some local stores are well into the last of the process and very close to closing. Something has to be done. If you got a speeding ticket one each year in three years, and lost your drivers license.. would you be upset? There really is nothing to compare it to. If you have plans to buy a gun, better to do it soon unless we can stop this from happening.
What's next, freedom of speech, freedom of religion? If the second amendment can be taken away (through the back door) why not the first? Also, this is NOT being done by a vote of congress but by a simple policy change.
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Comments
A people afraid to stand for freedom deserve none...and the Elites are making it so.
Personally...I hope they shut down the last FFL dealer tomorrow.
The WHOLE IDEA of an "FFL" is REPUGNANT to the Constitution.
I would LOVE to see the last new gun sold thru government agents..(FFL'S)....
Privledges, friend....What the government grants they can take away....
We need to get every ATF agent and employee in the unemployment and soup lines. What a great start!
Defender
Private investigator licensed in AZ & CA that specializes in self defense cases.
First off we all know exactly what this is, thanks for bringing it to our attention Locust Fork, it's not like we can do a whole bunch about it except for stop them. We, or I will already have done it, need to send a copy of this to all the big boys and my first one is going to the NRA. Please do the same. I don't know whether all of you recognize this or not but this is the old double reverse flea-flicker with no time on the clock. If they [ATF] succeed in Alabama, we will be in an all uphill battle for the rest of the country. I'm sure they have already begun elsewhere, as well. If the NRA et. al. can't fix it then you know what that means...jaflowers and I are going to have a nice big grin on our faces because it's open season on the alphabet gang. I guess they really are stupid, did they think it would get past all of us? Folks like Locust Fork are out there in every city in every state and there's no way the ATF will be left alone to accomplish this most evil goal.
Sometimes, when you least expect it and in the most peculiar way, you get a gift, a sign from above, that all the stars are lining up and action will soon be necessary. I would recommend that any store owner who has received a second strike get an armed unit to watch over his shop until it's all over. If we block them at every turn they will just keep going around in circles and that will send them off the deep end. This time when they muscle up there won't be one poor gun store owner to beat up on or a little kid running through the woods or a lady carrying a baby in a doorway to shoot at. This time they'll be out-gunned, out-manned, and out-thought. You see it's all going to be different this time around, this time we know their coming and where they are coming. The only thing we don't know is when, easy enough to get that information. We need Defender to work some of his magic and get some dirt on a green-horn with enough clout to know when they'll go where. A simple little black-mail ought to get us the when and where. We need dirt on one of these 6astards, and we could use it soon. Every gun store owner that has his business taken away by the ATF has got to cost the ATF three agents. We'll see how long they keep up their mad Gestapo-like agenda.
My Grandfather taught me that there is no such thing as revenge, only prevention. They bring a knife, you bring a gun. They stab one of ours, we kill two of theirs. They kill one of ours, we kill ten of theirs. It was really quite a simple concept and thus far has been my tenet in life. How many times do you think they'll take one of ours down if they lose ten for it? We have the only advantage there is in this game of cat and mouse, we know who they are. They haven't the slightest clue who may be hunting them down and where or when. That my friends is the biggest advantage one can possibly have in war, anonymity! So, don't sweat it in Alabama, just get a bunch of the boys together and tell them what we have to do, that goes for every state and city in America. They may have just fired the first shot boys, round 'em up and educate 'em. We're going to need them all. This is one hell of a lot better scenario than open urban guerilla warfare. We have the ONLY advantage and that is huge beyond explanation.
Yeah, I know, here goes comengetit again, ready to start World War III, no I really think this will be much more like the Six-Days War in 1968, there will be no retaliation. Who would they retaliate against? Does any of this sound familiar? Can you say Al Quaida, they were a somewhat invisible foe and look at the difficulty the mighty U.S. military is having with them. Our boys are getting killed by people they never expected to be killers. Ask them how they feel about fighting a ghost. This was very close to the scenario I was hoping for, it gives us a chance in this "Mother of all Wars." Those of you who think I am acting as 'chicken little', let me remind you that we all knew this day would come and we were all afraid we may have to duke it out toe-to-toe with the federal government, well, it looks like that won't be the case at all. We have just entered a new era whereby the people no longer lay on their backs and accept their fate nor do they crawl on their bellies in order to beg for their fate, no, on the contrary, we are now going to carve our names in history right next to Thomas Jefferson, Samuel Adams, George Washington, and Paul Revere as true American Patriots.
How do we organize it? Pretty simple really, it sounds like our new friend Locust Fork may be a dealer and if so he can keep track of the ATF's movement by staying in contact with other dealers and getting the low-down on where they are going and what they have done. We then send out a plea to gun owner in that particular state to assist in the protection of gun shops in that state. This will ultimately lead to the ATF declaring war on an unknown combatant, us. It is at the point where they fire on our brethren when the war begins and we adhere to the Ashley Doctrine, my Grandfather from above, put one of ours in the hospital, we put three of theirs in the morgue. Kill one of ours, we kill ten of yours. We know not of compromise, total destruction of the BATFE and nothing less can be our only mission. We didn't start this snit, but we damn sure are going to finish it.
When all is said and done and the BATFE are no more that should send a pretty hefty message to the rest of the alphabet organizations. The government will probably send out the FBI in order to help once they get wind of what is going on. So be it, they can die too. It's gone far enough and we now have necessity calling the shots. We tried it their way for 72 years and it's time to get off the horse, hunker down, and get busy. I know, I'm psycho and need help, so what's new? You can't tell me we're going to sit idly by while gun shop after gun shop is closed slowly, thus closing the manufacturers and ultimately enforcing a total gun ban on our law abiding citizens? There is no way in hell you're just going to sit back and watch it all unfold. It's real simple, a shop has two strikes and they get a unit of store keepers with instructions to hold fire until fired upon with the ultimate goal of driving them away. In the process there must be warriors on stand-by in the area so when called they can take up the rear and the flanks as they won't WANT to leave, they won't have a choice.
Another option would be to go take the licenses and all of the 4473's that are in the state of Alabama from the gun shops and destroy them clearly sending the message that we are not going to abide by their laws anymore. The President will call a state of emergency and call up the National Guard, only problem being, the National Guard won't come. Not if it's done with no first strike aggression. The BATFE has done us a favor in their long infamous career of murder and mayhem; they have put their black hats on national TV for all to see. Don't let those who have died at the hands of the BATFE have died in vein. A simple press conference or two would surely put the whole thing to rest and the BATFE out of business. We just need a few small victories on the battlefield and the other states will follow suit.
Hey, it's just a thought but we really need to do something because left alone, their plan will work like a prisoner on the chain gang and we will be facing total confiscation and ultimately the United Nations law will govern us and we will no longer be sovereigns. Sleep on that thought, UN soldiers from all over the world coming to take away your means to defend against that very thing causing an ultimate dichotomy.
As for the theory of closing down every last gun shop...I don't think so. We are not asking for snit, we are taking it back and there's not a damn thing they will be able to do about it. Sitting back while they close all the gun shops is a monumental mistake, IMHO. We only prolong the inevitable and allow for a good many lives to be turned inside out as they lose everything they have worked their entire lives for. They need us as we have needed them.
There are two kinds of people in this World....Those who lead....and those who get the hell out of the way...GUT CHECK!...Which one are you?
As stated above..the number of FFL's has dropped from 300 thousand to 60 thousand....and most if not all of the remaining dealers CHEERED this action.More profit for them, you see....
Now we should defend them ?...now that THEIR ox is being gored ?
Naaa..let 'em go. They represent people content to break the Constitution in order to make a profit.EVERY TIME you fill out a yellow sheet shoved across the counter by a dealer...understand that that man is an agent of a corrupt government.
There is PLENTY enough guns in this country to do what is necessary.I have long advocated the absolute cessation of new gun buying..as the first step in taking it back.
Traveling from the west, unto the east. Insearch of that which was lost, but with my endavors, and his assistance, I am hopeful, of finding.
The whole "lets get our guns and defend the store" attitude is plain scary. (and a bit nuts) Have we forgotten that WE are their boss? Our votes have given us the system we have....I am not saying the system is to blame, just that the vague areas have empowered a monster.
The anti FFL people don't realize that without an FFL holder to buy from....you are screwed if you plan on getting a firearm. If you sell guns on a regular basis (without an FFL) you will become a target very soon. It is illegal to sell guns unless you have the FFL. I know several people who have had the ATF meet them at their home because they were selling guns in their spare time.
I was hoping to join in with someone who was in a similar fight...or maybe stir the interrest of someone smarter than I am that wants to DO something. I have little left for the fantasy world.
Oh..I forgot. That is EXACTLY WHY WE ARE IN THE SHAPE WE ARE IN...that, and the nation of cowards we have become....
No new guns...? GOOD. Its way past time for you and the rest of the "Pro-Gunners"..I use that word tongue in cheek...to READ THE CONSTITUTION...and the Bill of Rights.
Find ANYTHING in there making FFLs's Constitutional...? And if not...I don't give a rats * if you EVER get another new gun.
Time to grow up and smell the stinking dung heap your country has become. Time to grow a pair.
O.K. guys....we looked into someone else running the store. They won't go for it. If the original FFL holder has ANYTHING to do with it they will colse the store immediately. They called it "hidden ownership."
The whole "lets get our guns and defend the store" attitude is plain scary. (and a bit nuts) Have we forgotten that WE are their boss? Our votes have given us the system we have....I am not saying the system is to blame, just that the vague areas have empowered a monster.
The anti FFL people don't realize that without an FFL holder to buy from....you are screwed if you plan on getting a firearm. If you sell guns on a regular basis (without an FFL) you will become a target very soon. It is illegal to sell guns unless you have the FFL. I know several people who have had the ATF meet them at their home because they were selling guns in their spare time.
I was hoping to join in with someone who was in a similar fight...or maybe stir the interrest of someone smarter than I am that wants to DO something. I have little left for the fantasy world.
Traveling from the west, unto the east. Insearch of that which was lost, but with my endavors, and his assistance, I am hopeful, of finding.
The anti FFL people don't realize that without an FFL holder to buy from....you are screwed if you plan on getting a firearm. If you sell guns on a regular basis (without an FFL) you will become a target very soon. It is illegal to sell guns unless you have the FFL. I know several people who have had the ATF meet them at their home because they were selling guns in their spare time.
[/quote]
Traveling from the west, unto the east. Insearch of that which was lost, but with my endavors, and his assistance, I am hopeful, of finding.
I also think if I "grew a pair" my husband would be very disappointed.
The store will go through the motions and maybe enough stores will be hit with this wave of ATF hipocracy...that HOPEFULLY someone will be able to stop them. I would hate to see what the next step of their plan is.
One of our customers is the kind of guy that comes in...sees something he thinks he can make a buck on...runs out and makes the deal...comes back and buys the gun. He has done this for years. Now its biting him in the rump. He had four agents at his home telling him he was a gun-runner and he was operating without a license. He has a long road ahead of him....not that it matters, but it seems you can tell people about these things and it goes in one ear and out the other (until it happens to them.)
I also think if I "grew a pair" my husband would be very disappointed.
The store will go through the motions and maybe enough stores will be hit with this wave of ATF hipocracy...that HOPEFULLY someone will be able to stop them. I would hate to see what the next step of their plan is.
Traveling from the west, unto the east. Insearch of that which was lost, but with my endavors, and his assistance, I am hopeful, of finding.
One of our customers is the kind of guy that comes in...sees something he thinks he can make a buck on...runs out and makes the deal...comes back and buys the gun. He has done this for years. Now its biting him in the rump. He had four agents at his home telling him he was a gun-runner and he was operating without a license. He has a long road ahead of him....not that it matters, but it seems you can tell people about these things and it goes in one ear and out the other (until it happens to them.)
I also think if I "grew a pair" my husband would be very disappointed.
The store will go through the motions and maybe enough stores will be hit with this wave of ATF hipocracy...that HOPEFULLY someone will be able to stop them. I would hate to see what the next step of their plan is.
Traveling from the west, unto the east. Insearch of that which was lost, but with my endavors, and his assistance, I am hopeful, of finding.
Ain't life grand ? Many of us have been reviled for stating the obvious..the government is out of control....and the people are cowards.
Now we will be reviled for knowing this far ahead of time.
So many people comfort themselves, stroking themselves,as it were..."It kain't happen here..this here is 'Merica"....Now, finally, the handwriting on the wall is plain enough so that even the densist can read it....assuming, of course, the ability to read is achieved.... out of the fedgov propaganda camps (called public schools) this is by no means a given....
ROFLMFAO- You gotta admit ,Highball, that was funny. I'm sooo glad I didn't go there. Now Mrs. Fork, unlike Highball I am of a mind to kick some serious * before they get the guns, that is to say those for sale, as they'll never get the ones out there now save the candy-* people who turn them in. You know San Francisco has had their share of people I would love to take out back and kick the snit out of, but none so much as the ones who turn in their guns. Makes me want to puke, gutless 6astards, how do they look their children in the eye?
Back to this issue, I can see where you might think it a bit crazy to place a unit of armed men at FFL's on there way out but let me paint another picture for you. Let's say it 2009 and the BATFE has single handedly done what millions have tried and failed to do, they have closed off all new gun sales and collected all the 4473's in the process. Back in Virginia or from where ever they hail, they have 1000 data entry people working the keyboards inputting all of that wonderful information we so trustingly gave. When that is all assembled what they will then have is the confiscation list. They will declare all guns illegal by UN treaty and they will come for them. What do you think it is going to be like when that happens and at this pace, it will? I have a vision of lawlessness, rape, murder, famine, and downright ugly times. All of that because they took our guns? Hell I left a whole bunch of nasty stuff out and those are just for starters. New Orleans will look like a picnic.
I think Highball is referring to all of the * who have really left no choice but to go to war over our second amendment rights. By preaching for gun control, and they have no clear consensus as to why, the liberals have dug and are digging the graves of thousands of law abiding citizens. The second amendment was put into place for one reason and one only, to fend off a tyrannical government. It would only seem prudent that the ones who would want our guns would be those who are to be shot at. Let's face it once and for all, we are not, I repeat NOT going to change a damn thing in the Congress and voting for or against is futile, do you think your vote is even counted? It's decided what the outcome will be long before you punch the ticket.
This whole government is the most corrupt organization in the history of mankind. Others pale in comparison to what lengths these "things" will go to get what they want...POWER. Power over me and you and your neighbors and your relatives and anyone else you can think of. They have been putting things in place for over 100 years in order to rule supreme over the only "free" society the world has ever seen. It's hard to believe that the people have changed in office over many years but no matter who it is greed eventually gets them, besides look who these politicians are... they are the guys we used to give "swirlies" to in grade school and beat the hell out of in High School. They are all lookin' for a little payback. Only way they can have it is for all of us to have no means of defense. Not unlike them when they were younger, I guess Karma really is a *.
The way I see it we have two choices, fight now or fight later. I like the odds a whole lot better when we still have all of our guns, I mean all of them. No country would dare attempt a war against an armed American public numbering 20,000,000+ and that is a moderate figure. If we wait that number will drop to 5,000,000. Not too shabby but against todays modern weapons, the very reason why we are supposed to have access to any weapon the military has, we will lose half. Yes, we should have nukes too, not in each individuals possession but in the militia with the ability to deploy. We would be far less likely to use them on our soil then the military.
With all that aside, my last post may have been "a little nuts", this whole thing is, but would you rather the alternative and by the way anyone who is sitting back and waiting is part of the problem not the solution. I don't mean you should be out there with your sniper rifle, not yet anyways[;)], but you should be helping to ready the forces we possess for the inevitable. If they don't have a full gun confiscation within ten years I'll eat my Kansas City Chiefs football helmet strap and all.
There are two kinds of people in this World....Those who lead....and those who get the hell out of the way...GUT CHECK!...Which one are you?
WELL..guess I got my foot rather well into the mouth there....Or NOT...I have met more women with Cojones then men..or sometimes it seems so...Women able to look at the present situation of no-freedom and resent it...,
I feel your pain, ma'am...but the agony has barely begun. Our masters are determined to subjucate the populace...and will not take 'no way' as an answer.
They attack us on so many fronts, it is impossible to fight them all.
My opinion...ONLY MINE...one man..is to withdraw from the political slimy arena and allow what will happen later...SOONER...while some small remnent of Constitution loving Americans still breath.
Allow the slimy hollow suits to pass a total gun ban. Let us see if there are any Americans left...or is indeed America the "Land of the Cowards"....
Its easy to say "you do it for the money." I do have a paycheck, but when the stores are all closed it will not be long before guns will fade out of existance. Nobody will have to hole themselves up in a bunker. Remember when you could get a Thompson at the hardware store???? Now that its harder to get...there aren't as many and the ones who DO have them spent $1,500 to get it.
Something worth a lot of money (like guns will be once they are RARE) aren't used...they are investments and likely to be stolen in the end. Its not a thing you realize is happening, kind of like grey hair. First it was making things "safe" then, more rules because things weren't "safe enough" and now the guns just get harder and harder to deal with in a legitamate way.
The gun stores are how NEW to guns people get educated and find what they need. That is our backbone and if they close enough it will do away with guns in the end.
Our store has a great following and I hate that any day now the ATF will be in there and the tiny error they find will be like the thorn in the Lion's paw...only no mouse has come up to pull it out
We understand far more about what is happening then you perhaps realize.
You have read my disdain for FFL's...and the critisism is earned in spades by most of them. The dealers that actually understand the Second Amendment are FEW and FAR between...and dealing in guns without that knowledge is pathetic.
Lady..we are in the final throes of the freedom of America.
It is nice that you are disturbed about the future of your gunshop. Are you as disturbed over the future of America ?
My kids have no promise of continuing their ecucation for the time being because every time I think I can put some money back I have a set back. Things are getting worse and worse around the U.S. Some people are cheering the "newfound jobs" all of these car manufacturing plants are bringing in....but I, on the other hand, see Detroit and the problems the future brings for Alabama when the plants close.
I could go on and on about how the U.S. just strains the citizens to the breaking point. No real future for our kids unless we can "tame the beast." I don't know what to do really. Voting doesn't help...you could vote in Ted Nugent as Pres. and the ATF would STILL audit the gun stores out of existance.
My store, however, is a concern here and now! These audits are rediculous....I understand having to keep tabs on how a store is conducting business. This is nothing like that. We have a former agent come in and check our progress and she has told us that when she was an ATF agent her superiors would not accept her reports until she had found errors.
Our store has had the two steps of this process go through even though we have a real knowledge of what we are doing. All of our employees have been in retail gun sales for a long time. No half-* workers at this store. Only gun people...from gun families...with experience and a lot riding on the future of guns. We have put all of our eggs in this basket. I only know guns...no nursing degree to fall back on.
I need this ATF "three strikes" garbage to be out in the spotlight! Even non-gun people would have to agree it is very back door and way beyond what the ATF should have the power to accomplish.
I apologize for the tone of the early posts. I have very little use for the 'easy riders' in this culture...those riding the crest with no concern for the rocks just under the surface.
Its obvious you care. Unfortunately...the beast has the bit in his teeth. All the Bush supporters thought they were getting a "Second Amendment Supporter"...instead they got more of the same. Increased funding for the atf...700 federal gun judges...and continuing elimination of FFL'S.
Sounds like a real supporter, Ehh ?
I have no magic bullet for your problems.
Remember...King George made American Patriots. All the shouting and speechifing by the Founders didn't make fighters.....only tyranny can do that.
Welcome to 177....?......
next faze of high tech info on your life.
http://www.adcritic.com/interactive/view.php?id=5927
.....I check the invoices for the prior day
.....write down the handguns in a handgun log
.....fill out multi purchase forms for people who buy more than one handgun within 5 "business" days
.....check the 4473 to see if they are "right"
.....stamp everything and file it
.....start the hunt for the gun traces that are ALWAYS waiting for me in the fax machine
.....fax the found gun traces back to the FBI
.....put stock numbers on new inventory and enter everything in the computer
.....put things out for sale
.....pick up all the junk that was misplaced in the tornado of people in our store
.....clean up a bit, flick a few swithches and make coffee
This is all before 9am everyday...every day (except sunday) and somehow I am supposed to "do better." I don't think anyone could be perfect....at anything. I cannot believe the ATF can take our life and throw it away because someone didn't have their middle name on a form. I know SOMEONE has the know-how to start a real uproar...some kind of public notification of JUST HOW MUCH POWER the ATF has over the rights of everyone.
I wish this was about drivers license and not FFL. If someone got a speeding ticket, a parking ticket, and on the third violation lost their driving privlages....how would they feel? Its not exactly the same, but the "scale" of misuse by the powers that be are the same.
I quote: wish this was about drivers license and not FFL. If someone got a speeding ticket, a parking ticket, and on the third violation lost their driving privlages....how would they feel? Its not exactly the same, but the "scale" of misuse by the powers that be are the same
The Second Amendment is FAR MORE IMPORTANT...then the nearest runner-up.
That is why the Elite ATTACK it with such ferocity. Guns=Liberty's Teeth...
Ma'am..may I suggest that you go to the top of this forum and read the Information Sticky ?
You are not alone....unfortunately, there are tough times ahead. I no longer believe that the juggernaut can be stopped with conventional means..the Elites are too close too world domination to stop now.
Your freedoms are mostly a figment of your imagination, today...we all crawl on our belly to pay homage to slimy corrupt hollow little men...
We MUST obey the laws...until they pass that one law that decent people can no longer live with. Upon that day...may God have mercy on their souls.
The odds of your winning a court case for harrassment is..slim to none. The Courts protect the Kings Men.
The other suggestion is....sell out and move west. Out in this area...Oklahoma...the things you talk about are not happening...YET. You will only buy yourself a little time....as I am sure you know.
http://forums.gunbroker.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=67888
http://forums.gunbroker.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=69502
-Wolf
MOLON LABE
The Second Amendment begins when the First Amendment ends.
First off, welcome to the forums.
Second, unique name, any story behind it?
Next,
I am glad to see you here. The more people that know, the wider the knowledge of what is happening can be spread. Neither you, your business, nor your state, are alone in the jack booted thugs tactics, used by the alphabet criminals against legal gun owners.
Just in case you had not heard about it, take a look at this thread.
http://forums.gunbroker.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=166428
Did they do something illegal? Did they get away with it? There "might" be someone that gets their hand slapped for this one. That would be about the worst punishment that one of them would have to worry about.
The atrocities "they" have committed in the past, and gotten away with, are mind boggling. No matter which side you are on concerning the Branch Davidians, the fact remains that 82 men, women, and children were BURNED ALIVE. If THAT did not wake up the masses of sheeple (except for Timothy) I am afraid that your store (along with the other stores) having trouble with the BATF is not going to cause much of a stir among the sheeple.
The saga of Ronnie Perkins kind of hits home hard, since he was a member here. (I wasn't there, so I can offer no PROOF) But if the story is "as written" it just goes to show that if they want you, they WILL get you, even if they have to "manufacture" the evidence. May Ronnie R.I.P.
I wish I could help you, and I do hope you can find some avenue to pursue that will help. My only suggestion is to talk to a few "gun rights" lawyers. But as stated before, the chances of getting anywhere are slim to none. The courts DO protect the king's men.
The BATF has, time and time again, with a stroke of "THEIR" pen, made criminals out of law abiding gun owners. One day you own a pen gun, or a street sweeper, etc. the next day you are a criminal BECAUSE you own it. Only by the stroke of "THEIR" pen. I thought laws were made by our representatives. Where does the BATF get the authority to MAKE laws? When will the sheeple wake up? Will they wake up? Where will it end?
I'm glad that Highball did not scare you off. He speaks from the heart, albeit sometimes it is too harsh (read...realistic) for some to deal with. Comengetit is learning, and from the sound of it, not liking what he sees. You appear to have a bit of "moxie" to you. I hope you stick around, continue to contribute to the forums, and hopefully find some of the information here, if not helpful, at least enlightening.
The gene pool needs chlorine.
Moxie...a good word.
Know why I am not a FFL.....?
I refuse to crawl on my belly to beg 'the Master'..for permission to pursue a life-long dream..(To operate a gun store/shooting range)
The other reason is...there is absolutely NO CHANCE that I am organized enough to keep the necessary records to keep the beast from devouring me.
Odd that we call this country "Free"...ain't it......
God,Guts,& GunsHave we lost all 3 ??
This is from the "general discussion" forum regarding an NRA poll...
Well you have a very valid argument and I like the way you expressed it and the example you gave. And if I was wealthy, I would ship you all the money you needed to protect your right to be an FFL holder. I feel that strongly in support for you. Unfortunately I am not wealthy.
But it will do no one any good if we publically blame the NRA for not being able to help you. Since the NRA has only about 5-8% of all gun owners as supporting members, the NRA just plain doesn't have the income or members support to be able to help most cases such as yours. I agree that it would be wise for the NRA to try and find the needed income and resources to help you, but I'm afraid it won't be easy.
But in the meantime here is an idea that I have been thinking about for a long, long time. Why don't FFL holders all across America become more organized? Form a nationwide organization and pool your strengths, funds, knowledge, support, etc. That way when the ATFE tries to lean on a small FFL holder, it won't be like it is now and the ATFE won't be leaning on just a small, resource poor business. You could even contact the NRA and ask for their organizing and contacts help.
This is not a radical idea. Numerous other interest groups have done this long ago. The Am. Automobile Assn, the American Medical Assn, American Motorcycle Assn, etc., etc. There could be numerous benefits if you had such a nationwide association. Such benefits as having a "war chest" of your pooled money, shared expenses for legal fees, greatly expanded political clout. You could probably even setup a national insurance policy to pay for any legal fees or to reimburse you for any losses, etc. Might even be able to pool your purchasing power and wholesale purchase your guns, ammo and equipment at a much lower price than you are able to do now.
If I can help you with this idea I would be happy to do what I can; although since I am just an average guy I don't know what that could be. If you like the idea, why don't you start by contacting the Adminstration right here on GB.com becasue over the years we have heard way to many stories of how our FFL's get mistreated and it needs to stop.
JMHO
WOW!! Lets get this going....NOW!!!
Gather as much info as possible..to be used to convince current gun shop owners their a** is on the line.
Consider installing another, less detectable closed circuit vidio recording system in your own shop....the rats are shy about appearing on camera...and will confiscate your tape of any harassment.
Do not reveal the existance of tapes until the end...
Invite the owners of gun shops in your area to a Sunday afternoon meeting in a local resturant..and be prepared with facts and figures about the "3-strikes" attacks...
Be prepared for retribution..as soon as the rats discover you are attempting to shine a spotlight on their activity.They work far better in the dark...and they mostly like it that way...unless they are burning 80 men, women and children to death....
I can tell you I have no plans on moving to the city any time soon. If I wanted to I could open my back door and hunt deer each morning in my p.j.'s. I counted 13 doe in a field behind our house one morning. Thats why I started off calling myself Locust Fork.
About the thread you pointed out....I HAD read it and I think I had a response to it. I am so shocked when I hear about how some gun people are treated...and the fact that they don't know their rights and let the agents get away with things they NEVER should have.
I can tell you this...I DO know just what I do and do not have to give over to the government agencies when they ask. They shot themselves in the foot with the privacy act....you have to show them where certain guns are and who bought them and be able to show the proper paperwork for the transaction. In no way shape or form are they to be given access to everyones personal info only because they have purchased a gun.
The thing they are really trying to get done is a "list" of gun owners...something every pro-gun agency has been fighting for a long time. I really cannot believe the police had officers participating with all of that. It MUST be very different there than it is here....most of the police are pro-gun down here and will not be fooled by the crap the ATF puts out.
I would be in several types of restraints and dripping with mace before they would get a customer's private information from me without needing it for a gun trace...and good luck "guessing" which of the 785 guns I have in stock they may have bought.....I also know I have 48 hours to turn over the completed trace.
If I did set up a booth at a gun show....it would be something else to see if they tried that crap with me. I would be like that looney woman on Wife Swap...well, not that looney, but close.
Is this something from the local B'ham ATF office?
Which shop in B'ham?
Lifetime shooter - please speak louder!
-
"Don't send flowers when I die. Send money now so I can buy more guns and ammo."
So will all our other friends(?) in blue!
Oh? That's right, they wore plain clothes in Virgininia!
They broke the law and fellow officers did not arrest them?
And they think I have a problem?[:(!]
This needs to stay on the top! [:D]
In hoc signo vinces
I think walmart has an Art Bell special on tin foil hats this week, maybe you need to go get one, that says troll on it.[}:)]quote:Originally posted by D.K.
This needs to stay on the top! [:D]
In hoc signo vinces
I've alread got two! I'm negotiating for my own bridge now.
Damn brifges are not cheap! [V]
I appreciate all of the support from everyone on the forum...I wish I knew more of the lingo....some of the entries are too coded for me, but eventually I will catch on. I will keep you updated on everything I can to keep your great ideas coming my way.