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Shootsright sent me to them on the 3rd...if we are keeping up. I read about the "full auto" gun and I have notified them about what is happening out here.
I have contacted everyone that someone points me toward.
HAVE YOU HAD PROBLEMS WITH AN ATF INSPECTION LATELY? . . . As the voice of dealers to ATF, the National Association of Firearms Retailers (NAFR), NSSF's retailer division, is interested in knowing of any particularly notable difficulties or challenges experienced by firearms dealers with ATF inspections. NSSF/NAFR wants to bring legitimate problems and abuses that may exist to the attention of ATF management to get them corrected. If you have a story to tell, please contact Randy Clark, NSSF director of retail partnerships, at (203) 426-1320 or rclark@nssf.org.
ALERT FROM JEWS FOR THE PRESERVATION OF FIREARMS OWNERSHIP
America's Aggressive Civil Rights Organization
January 30, 2006
JPFO ALERT: More News on our Boot Campaign
Our "Boot the BATFE" Campaign is marching briskly along!
We've just placed the second in our ongoing series of ads
in the February 1 edition of the Washington Times Weekly.
You can view the ad (in PDF format) for yourself at
www.jpfo.org/bootbatfead2.pdf .
Make sure you read over our Boot campaign materials at
www.jpfo.org/bootbatfe.htm . We've included links to both
ads, as well as our relevant BATFE articles.
Don't be afraid to use your rights, or you're bound to lose
them. Join our Boot campaign, and help bring back a Bill of
Rights culture!
Finally....I got a call today from the NSSF and it took a few calls throughout the day, but I answered a poll about the problems we are facing. I hope to help the other gun owners by fighting the craziness. I am not shure if this poll of questions will help me with our current matter, but if we can all go public with the tyranical ways of the ATF....then maybe it will lead to SOMETHING.
I hope to hear from more people that are after change. I will be on board if anyone lets me know how I can help to fight for what is right.
quote:Originally posted by WoundedWolf
ALERT FROM JEWS FOR THE PRESERVATION OF FIREARMS OWNERSHIP
America's Aggressive Civil Rights Organization
January 30, 2006
JPFO ALERT: More News on our Boot Campaign
Our "Boot the BATFE" Campaign is marching briskly along!
We've just placed the second in our ongoing series of ads
in the February 1 edition of the Washington Times Weekly.
You can view the ad (in PDF format) for yourself at
www.jpfo.org/bootbatfead2.pdf .
Make sure you read over our Boot campaign materials at
www.jpfo.org/bootbatfe.htm . We've included links to both
ads, as well as our relevant BATFE articles.
Don't be afraid to use your rights, or you're bound to lose
them. Join our Boot campaign, and help bring back a Bill of
Rights culture!
- THe Liberty Crew
I'd like to know who designed this ad and more importantly, who approved it. This is an awful waste of monies and a full page ad in the Washington Times Weekly is not cheap. There are way to many words and no real 'PUNCH' to the thing. Horrible ad, JMHO! comengetit- out!
I have had a few strange transactions (or should I say "atempted" transactions.) These things make me think I am in the middle of a trap....or maybe trying to be trapped. People I have never seen before coming in and trying to get things the wrong way....and even "regular customers" that have been my customers for years and years. When one asks "you know me, just let me sign the back and let me go."
These things make you think they have gotten into some kind of trouble and they are co-operating with "THEM." You have to say..."no, you know they can come and look at my books any time they want and we'd BOTH be in trouble."
Have I gone nuts?
Is this how the rest of you feel?
Does it EVER get better?
How long before the stress just makes my heart explode?
Do I owe everyone an apology for being so paranoid?
Paranoid ? Hardly. You are in the grip of evil...the evil of a free country transisioning into tyranny.
Your business is the spear-point..the focal point of pressure from above to reduce availibility of "Liberties Teeth"..WEAPONS.
I have little advice for you. I myself would own a gun shop..would like NOTHING better. I made a choice to not crawl on my belly, begging my master to please allow this or that..to bow to what ever demands he makes today.
Get TOTALLY comfortable with the regulations. Hold meeting with your employees to educate THEM into the consequences of forgetting a simple step.
For whatever its worth...I personally would hold absolutely no animosity towards a gun shop owner that said "Enough..I submit no more.."
My personal belief is that the 75% of gun owners that support gun controls ought NEVER be able to find another gun to buy...I have not traded a gun to one of those for about 5 years..since I finally realized they pose a greater threat to the Second Amendment then Shumer/Fiendstein..
quote:Originally posted by Locust Fork
Have I gone nuts? NO...well maybe a little, but only your spouse would know about that. [}:)]
Is this how the rest of you feel? Only the ones with their eyes open. [:)]
Does it EVER get better? Sorry...I don't think it will. [:(]
How long before the stress just makes my heart explode? I'm hoping, 100 years? [:D]
Do I owe everyone an apology for being so paranoid? For what? Not giving "THEM" a reason. [^]
Continue to CYA, we want you posting here for a long time. [;)]
Locust, do you have any good relationships with the local LEOs? Maybe when one of these fishy strangers comes in you can notify the local fuzz to check them out when they leave the store. If these strangers are that adamant about circumventing the "legal" procedure for firearms purchase then they are either up to no good or are indeed a setup. Either way, maybe a little LEO check-up will rattle their cage. If they are BATFE plants then it will be interesting to see what comes of the local LEO interaction.
I have several GREAT friends on the force and I am reasonably certain I could find out anything I wanted to if I asked. But, this is one of those things I could not get behind doing....for one reason alone....I am a supporter for everyone to be able to buy a gun and to open up some person's information would be like going into a bee hive for honey.
The information found could lead to me finding out they aren't allowed to buy a gun....then the very next sale I was a part of would become like bricks for the wall they are building around me.
These sorts of checks make me nervous...about a year ago...I had an employee go beyond their boundaries and they had asked a "friend" to check into two of our customers. Sitting there in front of me was a folder.
I had not asked for this.
I thought the two were individuals I would not have over for dinner, but never had they EVER tried to buy a gun using ways that were not legal...and had also always been very straight-foreward when buying. I was NOT happy. I threw a pretty large fit.
I had the entire thing shredded and was very vocal on why I thought to go beyond our required check was to NEVER be done. I have always supported EVERYONES right to buy guns (until they have broken the law and cannot legally buy one.) I do all of what is required of me to sell a gun....I even go as far as to try and keep my records as I should.
I am just tired. I don't want to sell real estate...or go back to school for whatever it is I decide to be whenever I "grow up." I cannot see this being a place I want to be a part of if the country turns into the kind of place that guns are not allowed.
People are burning churches, children are being raped, it takes two grown people working every hour available only to pay minimum expenses these days. Why do some have so much effort to put into fighting guns? Do they not see the people they are against are the only ones with their eyes open? Why is it always someone who thinks THEY know what is good for EVERYONE that seems to have so much spare time to devote to being SO STUPID?
I like your entire post but can really understand and relate to the last paragraph or so. Kinda sums it all up for me. Some of the points you made, issues you raised, should be posted on billboards all over the country so that people will read them and hopefully wake up and understand.
Sir- the question is not "Are you paranoid?" The question is "Are you paranoid ENOUGH?" A friend that is a dealer had a "customer" that was asking unusual questions about purchases, on the order of "How hard would it be to saw off the barrel of this shotgun? Can you make this rifle into a machinegun?" Finally he told the customer "That's real hard to do. Because if you do it, the Feds will put your butt in a Federal prison for 10 years." Turned out to be an "investigative reporter" with a concealed camera.
I'm suprised he ever found out....they usually only want the bad news, you never hear about people doing the "right thing." They can go to 100 stores using the same set-up and get 99 good guys and the one IDIOT will make the news.
quote:Originally posted by Locust Fork
I'm suprised he ever found out....they usually only want the bad news, you never hear about people doing the "right thing." They can go to 100 stores using the same set-up and get 99 good guys and the one IDIOT will make the news.
We in California are also kind of having a tiny little 2nd Amendment crisis--just thought I'd bring this up in case you all out there didn't have a vivid sense of just what a desperate situation WE are in!!!
Do you have a Constitutional right to keep and bear arms in California?
NOT ACCORDING TO THE CALIFORNIA STATE SUPREME COURT!!!
NOT ACCORDING TO THE ATTORNEY GENERAL FOR THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA.
QUOTE: ".. If Plaintiffs ( [law abiding] gun owners ) are implying that a right to keep and bear [legally purchased and operated] arms is one of the rights recognized in the California Constitution's declaration of rights THEY ARE SIMPLY WRONG. No mention is made in it of a right to keep and bear arms."
( Kasler v. Lockyer 2000 )
"Lockyer" is our state attorney general--he hates guns too.
[}:)]
Amending the California Constitution is the best way to restore respect for the rights of law abiding gun owners. It will also undermine attempts by local jurisdictions to restrict your right to keep and bear arms. Candidates for political office will also find that this initiative represents one of the best issues upon which to base their campaign for office. ( Remember how Al Gore lost his own state of Tennessee in 2000? ) The Democrats have learned that hostility to gun rights can lose an election. We think supporting gun rights can win one. We need volunteers to put this issue directly to the voters. As a volunteer you will play a pivotal role in making this initiative a reality at the county level. Our goal is 850,000 signatures of registered voters in California and we can only achieve this with your help!
[B)] http://www.tacr.us/
Just to remind people that these things can get out of hand and next thing you know....bam!....California. Is there anything we can do to let the people know just how many of us there are? We should be known as the majority. I have no idea of why anyone would try and take office with an anti-gun agenda....IF they knew how many of us are against this.
quote:Originally posted by Locust Fork
We need bumper stickers.... "California happens"
Just to remind people that these things can get out of hand and next thing you know....bam!....California. Is there anything we can do to let the people know just how many of us there are? We should be known as the majority. I have no idea of why anyone would try and take office with an anti-gun agenda....IF they knew how many of us are against this.
Thank you.
And yes, it can happen where you are.
It takes years to win the fight for any particular example of a freedom.
It takes only seconds of motion with a writing instrument to take that freedom away.
[V]
Point to ponder: Senator Feinstein and Senator Boxer--the power behind the anti-gun movement in CA--get most (80%) of their individually made contributions from out of state by those who support the Pro-Ab0rtion vote in the U.S. Senate.
The Pro-Ab0rtion crowd is getting a "two-fer" (two for one) by sending money to CA for Feinstein and Boxer, who consistently vote Pro-Ab0rtion AND ANTI-GUN every time they vote.
Let me sum up my recent change in political stance: I am a ONE-ISSUE voter now: 2nd Amendment only.
What is the point of all this?
The point is that Non-California residents who are PRO-2ND-AMENDMENT need to support opposition candidates to Feinstein and Boxer, because it is NON-CALIFORNIA RESIDENTS WHO ARE FINANCING THESE TWO ANTI-GUN SENATORS FROM CALIFORNIA!!!
[:(!]
At first the The new NIC's check system was a problem. Under Clinton .
Now it is very smooth but they are using the NIC's check to get info on gun sales.
After a while they asked the FFL how many guns they sold .
Then how many they bought.
Then how many they sold and how many they had in inventory .
We don't fell little bites but it just takes longer to be eaten.
This is so they can tell if a large number of the
form 4473 have more than one gun per sale.
By checking the numbers of gun in inventory with the numbers sold to the number of NIC's checks an FFL calls in , they can tell if to many of us are buying to many guns. If the number of NIC's is say 100 and the number of guns sold is say 600 this is a red flag and will get the FFL and inspection for sure.
As for more than one handgun within a 7 days, don't . A form 3310.4 (Report of Multiple Sale or Other Disposition of Pistols and Revolvers ) must be filled out and one copy goes to the ATF national tracing center and one copy to the state or local LE agency and one copy for the FFL's files.
WAIT THE 8 DAYS SO THIS DON'T HAPPEN.
It's for your own well being and won't stir the pot.
You are very na?ve if you think that the wolves are no eating you up one bite at a time. [8D]
A well armed society is the best form of homeland security.
Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6.
A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.
Make yourselves sheep, and the wolves will eat you.
I know all about how they are using the system for reasons it wasn't approved for....the used gun report is one of my major pains. We are required to send in a three month report for all used guns that came into our store. It NEVER fails....the report is sent in and two to three days later....fax after fax after fax GUN TRACES!!!!!
They are using the used gun report to get information on people who have bought guns. They are not supposed to be able to just "check" on whatever they want to are they???? I just KNOW they are compiling a list of gun owners using this. To have that many traces for NO REASON AT ALL is just plain wrong.
quote:Amending the California Constitution is the best way to restore respect for the rights of law abiding gun owners. It will also undermine attempts by local jurisdictions to restrict your right to keep and bear arms. Candidates for political office will also find that this initiative represents one of the best issues upon which to base their campaign for office
Gotta disagree with you on this one, friend. Remember Props 187 and 209? Remember Gavin Newsome's gay marriage frenzy?
The people don't control California anymore, the judges and tyrants do. They won't let the legislation pass that they don't like, they just have to call up their union buddies and rally the lemmings to the cause. If something does slip by then they call up one of their judges to declare it unconstitutional and pigeon-hole it forever. And if that doesn't work, they just ignore it and do whatever they want anyway.
quote:
The people don't control California anymore, the judges and tyrants do. They won't let the legislation pass that they don't like, they just have to call up their union buddies and rally the lemmings to the cause. If something does slip by then they call up one of their judges to declare it unconstitutional and pigeon-hole it forever. And if that doesn't work, they just ignore it and do whatever they want anyway.
Take it from an ex-Kalifornian, GET OUT!!!
-Wolf
Thanks.
Until and unless I can safely retreat, I'll stand and fight.
In case I didn't make it clear, I consider amending the Kalifornia State Constitution is only a small first step, and opening battle to what is likely to be a long legal war.
Kalifornia is too big, too important, and too influential on the rest of the country for non-Kalifornia residents to simply throw up their hands, run, and look for easier battles elsewhere--or to look for a place where the all the hard battles have already been fought and won..
[:(!]
I knew it was time for me to leave when I was treated like a criminal for being a firearm enthusiast, even though I complied with every inane gun law in that state. I knew it wouldn't be long before they would assume that I WAS a criminal, or they would just make firearms possession illegal altogether and throw me in jail regardless.
quote:Originally posted by WoundedWolf
Fair enough, friend. Good luck to you.
I knew it was time for me to leave when I was treated like a criminal for being a firearm enthusiast, even though I complied with every inane gun law in that state. I knew it wouldn't be long before they would assume that I WAS a criminal, or they would just make firearms possession illegal altogether and throw me in jail regardless.
Be careful.
I am.
I live by the Constitution, even if it hurts.
[:(!]
It's just that I cannot give up a fight just because it's unwinnable.
[B)]
These things all seem to be "un-winable" I have looked at everything when it comes to this THREE STRIKES issue....and they are playing by the rules as far as I can tell. This is when you have to draw as much ATTENTION TO WHAT IS GOING ON as you can. Thats when people all agree...that is wrong...lets change things. If you stay at it maybe you can start the eyes that you can draw toward you to agree that things need to be different that what is accepted now.
The only problem with that is when you try to get a little attention...you get it from both the ones you want to help and the ones you are fighting.
We have the 2nd amendment because the only defense against the tyranny of a lazy, selfish, cowardly majority is for patriots to take up arms in defense of liberty.
In other words the founding fathers wrote the second amendment to guarantee that the citizens would have the power to defend themselves against the GOVERNMENT!! Not against animals, criminals etc., against the Government when that government exceeded its authority.
Since the 1930s the government has been exceeding its authority in almost every aspect of our lives. Of course the Government wants to (and increasingly does) eviscerate the 2nd amendment! It is a war, declared by FDR on the people of this nation and carried on by every president since. Gun control is simply a demand for our surrender.
We must turn the tide politically, and start to win the war of laws and words; if we fail we will have little chance to win the resulting shooting war, the NFA guarantees that we will be outgunned.
I am not an NRA fan; they have gone along with 'sporting use' and other nonsense. The simple fact is that the 2nd amendment guarantees us the right to own full-auto, high explosive, armor, artillery etc. In fact the more military the arm the more protected it should be.
quote:Originally posted by Locust Fork
It is no secret the ATF has always been against the small gun shops of Alabama.
Actually, this has been going on across the country. It really started full force in the 1980's. Back then, anyone that could show they knew how to handle a gun, didn't have a criminal background, and paid the fee could get an FFL. The BATF started their intimidation against the smallest gun traders and custom builders. I know, because my brother was a custom gun-maker that gave up his FFL so that they would stop harrassing him.
My brother would find an old walnut tree that someone no longer wanted and make it into gorgeous gun stocks. Then he would take the finest actions, barrels, and scopes on the market and build rifles, each one worth thousands of dollars (in the 1980's--now probably worth tens of thousands, thanks to a government-imposed shortage). He quit making them commercially because it was such a hassle to deal with the ATF. As they have finished off most individual FFL holders that were gun-smiths and artisans, they have moved on to the small retail shops. I believe that they are most of the way through their campaign to wipe out the smallest of the retail outlets. They will soon be targeting the medium-sized shops (e.g. small shops with multiple locations).
I know there has been more light on the ATF in the past few years. It seems there are more and more people upset with how that group handle themselves. I really hope we can keep things going until the time comes when they are held accountable. There are too many of us for them to deal with in the sly back door way that they do. We are always being treated like criminals when we are not. These powers they have to rule themselves is rediculous....the fact that they can put out a "newsletter" that is as powerful as changing gun laws is insane. Its like the lunchroom ladies at the school put out a flyer detailing the new dress code. Did you miss the last flyer? You can't wear red on thursday... ?
quote:Originally posted by jarflax
The whole problem boils down to this:
We have the 2nd amendment because the only defense against the tyranny of a lazy, selfish, cowardly majority is for patriots to take up arms in defense of liberty.
In other words the founding fathers wrote the second amendment to guarantee that the citizens would have the power to defend themselves against the GOVERNMENT!! Not against animals, criminals etc., against the Government when that government exceeded its authority.
Since the 1930s the government has been exceeding its authority in almost every aspect of our lives. Of course the Government wants to (and increasingly does) eviscerate the 2nd amendment! It is a war, declared by FDR on the people of this nation and carried on by every president since. Gun control is simply a demand for our surrender.
We must turn the tide politically, and start to win the war of laws and words; if we fail we will have little chance to win the resulting shooting war, the NFA guarantees that we will be outgunned.
I am not an NRA fan; they have gone along with 'sporting use' and other nonsense. The simple fact is that the 2nd amendment guarantees us the right to own full-auto, high explosive, armor, artillery etc. In fact the more military the arm the more protected it should be.
Well, now you've gone and done it.
You've said all the things that people usually only think (or say to only one other person on the planet).
And you are right: the 2nd Amendment is not about CCW, hunting (ducks, quail, or whatever), or "target shooting," or even about repelling a foreign invasion.
But I think it is a serious mistake to take the intended meaning of the 2nd Amendment and use it as a guide to changing (i.e., correcting) public perceptions and attitudes concerning firearms.
The 2nd Amendment IS about keeping citizens armed in case of some kind of doomsday scenario in which the legitimate government becomes, or is taken over by, a dictatorship, a tyranny.
You are thinking and talking like a philosopher here--specifically, a political philosopher (which I have no problems with).
You're using the true intent of the 2nd Amendment to decide how one should act on the 2nd Amendment.
But THAT POINT OF VIEW is TOO philosophical for the vast majority of people to stomach.
The philosophical point of view can never be espoused, in a single bound, by the vast majority.
The majority is not made up of the philosophical equivalent of Superman!
[:p]
Psychological profiling has revealed over and over again that that type of mindset (the high-powered, long range, go-for-broke philosophical type) occurs in about 1% of the population.
So how do you preserve the 2nd Amendment in a way that can lead to fortifying and expanding the level of public (i.e., the vast majority's) commitment to it?
I think we need to ask the same question differently:
How do you get the same result (i.e., preservation and fortification of public commitment to the 2nd Amendment) without converting the vast majority to a totally new (& therefore alien) and PHILOSOPHICAL mindset regarding firearms?
You have to look at the characteristic mindset of the vast majority and APPEAL TO THE VAST MAJORITY'S VALUES.
The vast majority is UNphilosophical.
Even less does the vast majority have your penchant for that subset of philosophy known as "political philosophy" (those interested can start with The History of Political Philosophy by Leo Strauss & Joseph Cropsey).
The vast majority of people bases its decisions (or at least tries to) on two things: practicality and feeling (not on ideal truth and logic--crystal clear emotionless philosophical logic like yours [that was a compliment]).
We need to be practical and meet people where they are, not where we know they should be in terms of philosophical sophistication about the true nature of the 2nd Amendment and how best to live according to it (i.e., arm heavily, practice often, and pass the tradition on to the next generation--which is the best way in an ideal world).
After all, the vast majority's hesitation about firearms is no doubt partly due to a healthy and sane respect for the gun's awesome power of life and death.
People should never lose that, but we do need to get them to exercise their gun rights.
So, in order to "sell" the concept of the 2nd Amendment in a way that makes sense to the vast majority, it is necessary to emphasize the practical and the emotional.
In other words, emphasize that a gun is for protection of self (practical) and LOVED ONES (emotional).
Daily concealed carry is the issue we should be pushing.
We do that by changing the laws FIRST.
Then, once you have their attention (i.e., have created good CCW laws in EVERY state), from there you point out that you can only use a gun to protect yourself and loved ones if you are carrying it regularly (and practicing, etc.).
People are more likely to BEGIN carrying if the law allowing it is already in place (most people will not be comfortable with Alaska's and Vermont's way of doing things--EVEN THOUGH I DO AGREE THAT NO-PERMIT CARRY IS THE RIGHT WAY IF YOU LOOK ONLY AT WHAT THE 2ND AMENDMENT SAYS AND MEANS).
So, CHANGE THE LAWS AND PEOPLE WILL CARRY (to paraphrase the "build it and they will come" line).
This angle of approach is what ALREADY HAS appealed to the vast majority of people.
THAT is a HUGE change in the nature of public attitude reflected legislatively.
And I think it is significant cause for optimism.
Why?
The owner of a pistol for self-protection is MUCH MORE LIKELY TO MOVE UP TO an AR or LONG GUN than a gunless person who is ignorant of, and indifferent to, the 2nd Amendment.
I think promoting CCW, and hence CCW-friendly legislation at state and local levels is the BEST (though not the most direct or philosophically PUREST) way to promote 2nd Amendment strength (i.e., rifles in Condition 1 in every law-abiding household).
We can do that by LOUDLY publicizing the success of PRO-CCW states which have experienced reduced crime by increasing CCW accessibility (and "stand your ground" legislation).
I think that attempting to promote "security," as intended in the wording of the 2nd Amendment, by FIRST urging everyone to go out and buy AR-15s before they are banned again is extreme, ineffective, and doomed to failure.
We 2nd Amendment supporters SIMPLY DO NOT HAVE THE LUXURY of even so much as giving the APPEARANCE that we are "extremists" because of the problems that are caused by extremists in other parts of the world.
We need to distance ourselves from an extremist image by carrying out a carefully planned and systematically executed campaign based on understanding what will appeal to the vast majority; we can do that by promoting commitment to the 2nd Amendment in small, gradual legislative steps.
This approach also lets the opposition remain ASLEEP--the anti-gun crowd has not been making any noise in the national media about the fact that pro-CCW legislation over the last 18 years has undergone a total reversal from 10 states allowing it to 10 prohibiting it since 1987!--THAT SHOULD BE THE BIGGEST NEWS ON EVERY MAJOR NETWORK CHANNEL EVERY NIGHT!
THAT IS A HUGE CHANGE!
So, people have to warm up to, and get comfortable with, the idea of firearms first.
You start by pointing out the need for CCW.
That's what worked with me!
I was gunless prior to 2003.
I used to think 2nd Amendment enthusiasts were "gun nuts."
Then I moved from the suburbs to the inner city because of my job.
I lived through the L.A. riots and moved around the L.A. area for a few more years before finally seeing the light (and buying half a dozen handguns--next on my list is a nice AR or bolt-action long gun).
The change in my thinking (from "don't care about guns" to "We law-abiding citizens should all be armed") took several years and a few bad and scary experiences.
But I am now totally committed to the cause of the 2nd Amendment (and CCW).
I think a slow, gradual approach focused on these two things is the strategy to take:
1] promoting CCW for self/loved-ones'-protection and
2] PRO-CCW legislation
. . . which is the best PHASE ONE of a LONG-TERM multi-phase transformation of the country's attitude from "don't care about guns" to "We law-abiding citizens should all be armed."
Recent history of CCW reform in this country has in fact already proven that slow, gradual change is the most powerful and the hardest to reverse.
PHASE TWO can then be "We should all be armed with our pocket pistols AND with battle-ready ARs or AKs."
PHASE THREE can include larger caliber bolt actions for the long range stuff.
To sum it up: I think we need to start small WHILE THINKING BIG.
[8D]
quote:Originally posted by Highball
Well written, indeed. It would work work. The exact process that would bring the American people back to the Constitution..all without even realizing it.
I believe that the Elites will prevent it..
I believe that you are right that the elites will ATTEMPT to prevent it.
After all, commonsense dictates such a probability.
However, the concrete proof that that attempt is doomed to failure is the last 18 years of CCW history in the good old U.S.A.: CCW, PRO-CCW legislation, and ever-increasing sales of legally purchased handguns condtradicts your well-founded pessimism.
In the last 18 years the unimaginable has happened: a HUGE proportion of the population has gone PRO-2nd-AMENDMENT.
The NRA, and every other PRO-2nd-AMENDMENT organization out there, should be acting on that fact by promoting with all their might the cause for CCW where it is most hated (LOS ANGELES, NEW YORK, D.C.).
Right now, the NRA seems to be resting on its laurels.
BIG MISTAKE.
WE NOW HAVE THE ADVANTAGE AND SHOULD BE GOING ON THE OFFENSIVE!!!
If the NRA would help a SHALL-ISSUE Sheriff get elected in Los Angeles County in June of 2006, that would send PRO-2nd-Amendment shock waves throughout the culture.
Our culture, whether anyone wants to admit it or not, is shaped by, or reacts against the shaping of, one force above all: HOLLYWOOD, which is located in LOS ANGELES COUNTY.
Now, the greedy anti-gun villains who control HOLLYWOOD are not invincible.
Their greatest strength, OVERWHELMING GREED, is also their GREATEST WEAKNESS.
If the greedy anti-gun villains who control HOLLYWOOD see the cultural climate change, they will respond accordingly.
THEY WILL MAKE PRO-2ND AMENDMENT MOVIES AND T.V. SHOWS.
Hollywood knows that its current virulent anti-white, anti-rural, anti-"redneck" bias is being approached by a wave of PRO-2nd-Amendment feeling, a wave that threatens to swamp HOLLYWOOD--which is why the latest "hit" sit-coms (NBC's "My name is Earl") and movies ("Brokeback Mtn." by Focus Features, headquarters located at Universal City Studios, which is owned by NBC) are BLATANT attempts to humiliate, besmirch, and discredit the kind of person usually thought of by the mainstream public as pro-gun (i.e., "rednecks" and "cowboys").
We are all familiar with the concept of the battle that turns the tide in a war.
Usually, there are a succession of such battles (not merely one), that create a momentum that carries combatants to victory.
Right now the PRO-2ND AMENDMENT people have that momentum but don't seem to realize that fact.
They also don't seem to realize where to focus the great bulk of their lobbying influence next: THE 2006 ELECTION CAMPAIGN FOR THE NEXT SHERIFF OF LOS ANGELES COUNTY.
Why?
Our Sheriff is the sole controller of who issues CCWs in this county of 4,084 square miles (over 10 million people).
Defeat him with a PRO-CCW, SHALL-ISSUE Sheriff, and I guarantee you that there will be tidal wave of applicants for CCW in LOS ANGELES COUNTY.
There is more pent-up demand (AND NEED) here than you all can possibly imagine.
We've got the anti-gun crowd on the run but does anyone realize it?
Why do you think the BATF is coming on so strong?
The citizens are arming themselves in ever greater numbers.
BATF can't stop that.
The only thing it can do is close the stores.
THAT'S WHY BATF is getting so fanatical.
We need to take a more sophisticated approach.
We need to learn which Congressional and Senate committees have influence over BATF and PUT PRESSURE ON THOSE LEGISLATORS.
Hell, we can do that for free (virtually).
We just all need to regularly send loud letters, faxes and e-mails voicing complaint--and promise to withhold support in elections if our needs are not acknowledged.
At that national level, we need to pressure legislators to curb the BATF.
At the local level:
THE 2006 ELECTION CAMPAIGN FOR THE NEXT SHERIFF OF LOS ANGELES COUNTY IS THE NEXT GREAT BATTLEGROUND.
[B)]
L.A. influences the rest of California.
California influences the rest of the country.
There's an old saying that has proven correct in many crucial battles of the culture wars over the decades:
"As California goes, so goes the country."
Every 2nd Amendment supporter should have one eye on his own state and ONE UNBLINKING EYE ON CALIFORNIA.
[:(!]
AIMSML_MSSML,
Hope you take this the way it is being offered.
Your posts are REALLY HARD to read. With the font, oversized text, and colors, there are a lot of people that will skip right over it. Which is too bad, since it looks like you have something to contribute.
quote:Originally posted by pickenup
AIMSML_MSSML,
Hope you take this the way it is being offered.
Your posts are REALLY HARD to read. With the font, oversized text, and colors, there are a lot of people that will skip right over it. Which is too bad, since it looks like you have something to contribute.
Thanks for pointing that out.
I'm near-sighted, so I thought I was being helpful.
I'll keep it simple from now on.
[;)]
I went back and edited a little to make it less bright (I had used red in the spirit of "red state").
[:p]
I think that I and every other 2nd-Amendment-supporter should aim at not "turning off" those with whom we attempt to communicate our important message, so thanks for pointing out what was not obvious to me.
[:D]
I am glad to see someone is paying attention to the BIG picture....I really do think that gun shops closing are a goal of the ATF and without everyone getting into the game the future of guns is gloomy. Our area is getting hit pretty hard, but I think it is because of the amount of gun transactions we have. Alabama is a pro-gun state with less restrictions and a lot more sales and trades than other areas....so there is a larger number of people for them to tangle in the traps. I am suprised to see people who buy guns just sliding through our store like gun stores will just be there from now on....not a care in the world for any type of struggle that the future of guns may be in.
I think if you buy guns...you should have at least a small spark of awareness for what they are trying to do. Why??? is what I would like for someone to tell me.... Just what are the anti-gun people thinking? How is taking guns away from US going to be the answer? What mother wouldn't want their children to grow up and be appreciative of their history and know enough about firearms to be safe and able to defend themselves? Criminals are going to have it so easy if they have things their way.
Does anyone know if the ATF is planning anything "new"...sometimes things can be stopped before they start. I wish someone had given us "heads up" before this three strikes crap began. I hope everyone who reads this tells their local stores about this. Sometimes the store owners may act like they aren't worried about things like this....but, a lot of that kind of thing is gun sellers wanting to show that they are following the law. The whole...."that doesn't concern me, because I'm a good guy"....stance makes people feel better about buying from that seller. (they think) If it is mentioned to them...I bet it sticks in the back of their mind and if they find themselves in a "familiar" situation they will know what is going on.
To be perfectly honest, I've seen several good ideas for protecting FFL dealers presented here. My personal favorite (and the most likely to effect real change) is the establishment of the FFL's own Security Team at the location (hidden until needed, of course). However, this idea of FFL holders across the country networking and joining together, pooling resources, has to be the the next runner up. Both ideas incorporated with each other would make a serious statement which the BATFE couldn't ignore, or destroy, without further, very bad, national attention: As has been stated before, they don't want/can't afford another Ruby Ridge or Waco incident.
However, the idea of convincing the general public to care at all about FFL dealers seems to me to be rather futile. The general public doesn't care. I'm not talking about other shooters or dealers, I'm talking about Joe Schmoe, Soccer Moms and the unparented generation(s) out there. They'd rather watch reality shows, play video games, shop at the mall or do just about anything than care about anyone else other than themselves. If it doesn't effect (affect?) them, they could care less. (And they don't realize that it'll effect them in the very near future...very severely.).
Time and resources would be much better spent in getting FFL dealers, and gun owners, united and working together to keep tabs on Gestapo agencies, keep them on serious notice that they can't do what they're trying to do, and stopping them in their tracks if/when they do. Not to mention having the resources to crush them in court (the right attorneys, the right jurisdictions, the right judges, etc.).
I've heard about this "three strikes" game they're trying to play. If it were me on the receiving end of these tactics, I'd play along and jump through their hoops, sure. But in the meantime I'd also be planning on, once they revoked my "license", to continue to do business as always, but without the paperwork. I might even start GIVING guns away, so long as I knew the people I was giving them to to have the right mind-set, of course. But, that's when you'd REALLY need a Security Team watching over you...24/7.
Comments
I have contacted everyone that someone points me toward.
America's Aggressive Civil Rights Organization
January 30, 2006
JPFO ALERT: More News on our Boot Campaign
Our "Boot the BATFE" Campaign is marching briskly along!
We've just placed the second in our ongoing series of ads
in the February 1 edition of the Washington Times Weekly.
You can view the ad (in PDF format) for yourself at
www.jpfo.org/bootbatfead2.pdf .
Make sure you read over our Boot campaign materials at
www.jpfo.org/bootbatfe.htm . We've included links to both
ads, as well as our relevant BATFE articles.
Don't be afraid to use your rights, or you're bound to lose
them. Join our Boot campaign, and help bring back a Bill of
Rights culture!
- THe Liberty Crew
I hope to hear from more people that are after change. I will be on board if anyone lets me know how I can help to fight for what is right.
ALERT FROM JEWS FOR THE PRESERVATION OF FIREARMS OWNERSHIP
America's Aggressive Civil Rights Organization
January 30, 2006
JPFO ALERT: More News on our Boot Campaign
Our "Boot the BATFE" Campaign is marching briskly along!
We've just placed the second in our ongoing series of ads
in the February 1 edition of the Washington Times Weekly.
You can view the ad (in PDF format) for yourself at
www.jpfo.org/bootbatfead2.pdf .
Make sure you read over our Boot campaign materials at
www.jpfo.org/bootbatfe.htm . We've included links to both
ads, as well as our relevant BATFE articles.
Don't be afraid to use your rights, or you're bound to lose
them. Join our Boot campaign, and help bring back a Bill of
Rights culture!
- THe Liberty Crew
I'd like to know who designed this ad and more importantly, who approved it. This is an awful waste of monies and a full page ad in the Washington Times Weekly is not cheap. There are way to many words and no real 'PUNCH' to the thing. Horrible ad, JMHO! comengetit- out!
These things make you think they have gotten into some kind of trouble and they are co-operating with "THEM." You have to say..."no, you know they can come and look at my books any time they want and we'd BOTH be in trouble."
Have I gone nuts?
Is this how the rest of you feel?
Does it EVER get better?
How long before the stress just makes my heart explode?
Do I owe everyone an apology for being so paranoid?
Do I owe everyone an apology for being so paranoid?
NO Cross your T's and dot all of your I's
My dear..welcome to the real world.
Paranoid ? Hardly. You are in the grip of evil...the evil of a free country transisioning into tyranny.
Your business is the spear-point..the focal point of pressure from above to reduce availibility of "Liberties Teeth"..WEAPONS.
I have little advice for you. I myself would own a gun shop..would like NOTHING better. I made a choice to not crawl on my belly, begging my master to please allow this or that..to bow to what ever demands he makes today.
Get TOTALLY comfortable with the regulations. Hold meeting with your employees to educate THEM into the consequences of forgetting a simple step.
For whatever its worth...I personally would hold absolutely no animosity towards a gun shop owner that said "Enough..I submit no more.."
My personal belief is that the 75% of gun owners that support gun controls ought NEVER be able to find another gun to buy...I have not traded a gun to one of those for about 5 years..since I finally realized they pose a greater threat to the Second Amendment then Shumer/Fiendstein..
Have I gone nuts? NO...well maybe a little, but only your spouse would know about that. [}:)]
Is this how the rest of you feel? Only the ones with their eyes open. [:)]
Does it EVER get better? Sorry...I don't think it will. [:(]
How long before the stress just makes my heart explode? I'm hoping, 100 years? [:D]
Do I owe everyone an apology for being so paranoid? For what? Not giving "THEM" a reason. [^]
Continue to CYA, we want you posting here for a long time. [;)]
-WoundedWolf
The information found could lead to me finding out they aren't allowed to buy a gun....then the very next sale I was a part of would become like bricks for the wall they are building around me.
These sorts of checks make me nervous...about a year ago...I had an employee go beyond their boundaries and they had asked a "friend" to check into two of our customers. Sitting there in front of me was a folder.
I had not asked for this.
I thought the two were individuals I would not have over for dinner, but never had they EVER tried to buy a gun using ways that were not legal...and had also always been very straight-foreward when buying. I was NOT happy. I threw a pretty large fit.
I had the entire thing shredded and was very vocal on why I thought to go beyond our required check was to NEVER be done. I have always supported EVERYONES right to buy guns (until they have broken the law and cannot legally buy one.) I do all of what is required of me to sell a gun....I even go as far as to try and keep my records as I should.
I am just tired. I don't want to sell real estate...or go back to school for whatever it is I decide to be whenever I "grow up." I cannot see this being a place I want to be a part of if the country turns into the kind of place that guns are not allowed.
People are burning churches, children are being raped, it takes two grown people working every hour available only to pay minimum expenses these days. Why do some have so much effort to put into fighting guns? Do they not see the people they are against are the only ones with their eyes open? Why is it always someone who thinks THEY know what is good for EVERYONE that seems to have so much spare time to devote to being SO STUPID?
I'm suprised he ever found out....they usually only want the bad news, you never hear about people doing the "right thing." They can go to 100 stores using the same set-up and get 99 good guys and the one IDIOT will make the news.
We in California are also kind of having a tiny little 2nd Amendment crisis--just thought I'd bring this up in case you all out there didn't have a vivid sense of just what a desperate situation WE are in!!!
Do you have a Constitutional right to keep and bear arms in California?
NOT ACCORDING TO THE CALIFORNIA STATE SUPREME COURT!!!
NOT ACCORDING TO THE ATTORNEY GENERAL FOR THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA.
QUOTE: ".. If Plaintiffs ( [law abiding] gun owners ) are implying that a right to keep and bear [legally purchased and operated] arms is one of the rights recognized in the California Constitution's declaration of rights THEY ARE SIMPLY WRONG. No mention is made in it of a right to keep and bear arms."
( Kasler v. Lockyer 2000 )
"Lockyer" is our state attorney general--he hates guns too.
[}:)]
Amending the California Constitution is the best way to restore respect for the rights of law abiding gun owners. It will also undermine attempts by local jurisdictions to restrict your right to keep and bear arms. Candidates for political office will also find that this initiative represents one of the best issues upon which to base their campaign for office. ( Remember how Al Gore lost his own state of Tennessee in 2000? ) The Democrats have learned that hostility to gun rights can lose an election. We think supporting gun rights can win one. We need volunteers to put this issue directly to the voters. As a volunteer you will play a pivotal role in making this initiative a reality at the county level. Our goal is 850,000 signatures of registered voters in California and we can only achieve this with your help!
[B)]
http://www.tacr.us/
Just to remind people that these things can get out of hand and next thing you know....bam!....California. Is there anything we can do to let the people know just how many of us there are? We should be known as the majority. I have no idea of why anyone would try and take office with an anti-gun agenda....IF they knew how many of us are against this.
We need bumper stickers.... "California happens"
Just to remind people that these things can get out of hand and next thing you know....bam!....California. Is there anything we can do to let the people know just how many of us there are? We should be known as the majority. I have no idea of why anyone would try and take office with an anti-gun agenda....IF they knew how many of us are against this.
Thank you.
And yes, it can happen where you are.
It takes years to win the fight for any particular example of a freedom.
It takes only seconds of motion with a writing instrument to take that freedom away.
[V]
Point to ponder: Senator Feinstein and Senator Boxer--the power behind the anti-gun movement in CA--get most (80%) of their individually made contributions from out of state by those who support the Pro-Ab0rtion vote in the U.S. Senate.
The Pro-Ab0rtion crowd is getting a "two-fer" (two for one) by sending money to CA for Feinstein and Boxer, who consistently vote Pro-Ab0rtion AND ANTI-GUN every time they vote.
Let me sum up my recent change in political stance: I am a ONE-ISSUE voter now: 2nd Amendment only.
What is the point of all this?
The point is that Non-California residents who are PRO-2ND-AMENDMENT need to support opposition candidates to Feinstein and Boxer, because it is NON-CALIFORNIA RESIDENTS WHO ARE FINANCING THESE TWO ANTI-GUN SENATORS FROM CALIFORNIA!!!
[:(!]
Think about this:
At first the The new NIC's check system was a problem. Under Clinton .
Now it is very smooth but they are using the NIC's check to get info on gun sales.
After a while they asked the FFL how many guns they sold .
Then how many they bought.
Then how many they sold and how many they had in inventory .
We don't fell little bites but it just takes longer to be eaten.
This is so they can tell if a large number of the
form 4473 have more than one gun per sale.
By checking the numbers of gun in inventory with the numbers sold to the number of NIC's checks an FFL calls in , they can tell if to many of us are buying to many guns. If the number of NIC's is say 100 and the number of guns sold is say 600 this is a red flag and will get the FFL and inspection for sure.
As for more than one handgun within a 7 days, don't . A form 3310.4 (Report of Multiple Sale or Other Disposition of Pistols and Revolvers ) must be filled out and one copy goes to the ATF national tracing center and one copy to the state or local LE agency and one copy for the FFL's files.
WAIT THE 8 DAYS SO THIS DON'T HAPPEN.
It's for your own well being and won't stir the pot.
You are very na?ve if you think that the wolves are no eating you up one bite at a time. [8D]
A well armed society is the best form of homeland security.
Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6.
A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.
Make yourselves sheep, and the wolves will eat you.
They are using the used gun report to get information on people who have bought guns. They are not supposed to be able to just "check" on whatever they want to are they???? I just KNOW they are compiling a list of gun owners using this. To have that many traces for NO REASON AT ALL is just plain wrong.
Gotta disagree with you on this one, friend. Remember Props 187 and 209? Remember Gavin Newsome's gay marriage frenzy?
The people don't control California anymore, the judges and tyrants do. They won't let the legislation pass that they don't like, they just have to call up their union buddies and rally the lemmings to the cause. If something does slip by then they call up one of their judges to declare it unconstitutional and pigeon-hole it forever. And if that doesn't work, they just ignore it and do whatever they want anyway.
Take it from an ex-Kalifornian, GET OUT!!!
-Wolf
The people don't control California anymore, the judges and tyrants do. They won't let the legislation pass that they don't like, they just have to call up their union buddies and rally the lemmings to the cause. If something does slip by then they call up one of their judges to declare it unconstitutional and pigeon-hole it forever. And if that doesn't work, they just ignore it and do whatever they want anyway.
Take it from an ex-Kalifornian, GET OUT!!!
-Wolf
Thanks.
Until and unless I can safely retreat, I'll stand and fight.
In case I didn't make it clear, I consider amending the Kalifornia State Constitution is only a small first step, and opening battle to what is likely to be a long legal war.
Kalifornia is too big, too important, and too influential on the rest of the country for non-Kalifornia residents to simply throw up their hands, run, and look for easier battles elsewhere--or to look for a place where the all the hard battles have already been fought and won..
[:(!]
I knew it was time for me to leave when I was treated like a criminal for being a firearm enthusiast, even though I complied with every inane gun law in that state. I knew it wouldn't be long before they would assume that I WAS a criminal, or they would just make firearms possession illegal altogether and throw me in jail regardless.
Be careful.
Fair enough, friend. Good luck to you.
I knew it was time for me to leave when I was treated like a criminal for being a firearm enthusiast, even though I complied with every inane gun law in that state. I knew it wouldn't be long before they would assume that I WAS a criminal, or they would just make firearms possession illegal altogether and throw me in jail regardless.
Be careful.
I am.
I live by the Constitution, even if it hurts.
[:(!]
It's just that I cannot give up a fight just because it's unwinnable.
[B)]
The only problem with that is when you try to get a little attention...you get it from both the ones you want to help and the ones you are fighting.
We have the 2nd amendment because the only defense against the tyranny of a lazy, selfish, cowardly majority is for patriots to take up arms in defense of liberty.
In other words the founding fathers wrote the second amendment to guarantee that the citizens would have the power to defend themselves against the GOVERNMENT!! Not against animals, criminals etc., against the Government when that government exceeded its authority.
Since the 1930s the government has been exceeding its authority in almost every aspect of our lives. Of course the Government wants to (and increasingly does) eviscerate the 2nd amendment! It is a war, declared by FDR on the people of this nation and carried on by every president since. Gun control is simply a demand for our surrender.
We must turn the tide politically, and start to win the war of laws and words; if we fail we will have little chance to win the resulting shooting war, the NFA guarantees that we will be outgunned.
I am not an NRA fan; they have gone along with 'sporting use' and other nonsense. The simple fact is that the 2nd amendment guarantees us the right to own full-auto, high explosive, armor, artillery etc. In fact the more military the arm the more protected it should be.
It is no secret the ATF has always been against the small gun shops of Alabama.
Actually, this has been going on across the country. It really started full force in the 1980's. Back then, anyone that could show they knew how to handle a gun, didn't have a criminal background, and paid the fee could get an FFL. The BATF started their intimidation against the smallest gun traders and custom builders. I know, because my brother was a custom gun-maker that gave up his FFL so that they would stop harrassing him.
My brother would find an old walnut tree that someone no longer wanted and make it into gorgeous gun stocks. Then he would take the finest actions, barrels, and scopes on the market and build rifles, each one worth thousands of dollars (in the 1980's--now probably worth tens of thousands, thanks to a government-imposed shortage). He quit making them commercially because it was such a hassle to deal with the ATF. As they have finished off most individual FFL holders that were gun-smiths and artisans, they have moved on to the small retail shops. I believe that they are most of the way through their campaign to wipe out the smallest of the retail outlets. They will soon be targeting the medium-sized shops (e.g. small shops with multiple locations).
It is a sad state of affairs.
The whole problem boils down to this:
We have the 2nd amendment because the only defense against the tyranny of a lazy, selfish, cowardly majority is for patriots to take up arms in defense of liberty.
In other words the founding fathers wrote the second amendment to guarantee that the citizens would have the power to defend themselves against the GOVERNMENT!! Not against animals, criminals etc., against the Government when that government exceeded its authority.
Since the 1930s the government has been exceeding its authority in almost every aspect of our lives. Of course the Government wants to (and increasingly does) eviscerate the 2nd amendment! It is a war, declared by FDR on the people of this nation and carried on by every president since. Gun control is simply a demand for our surrender.
We must turn the tide politically, and start to win the war of laws and words; if we fail we will have little chance to win the resulting shooting war, the NFA guarantees that we will be outgunned.
I am not an NRA fan; they have gone along with 'sporting use' and other nonsense. The simple fact is that the 2nd amendment guarantees us the right to own full-auto, high explosive, armor, artillery etc. In fact the more military the arm the more protected it should be.
Well, now you've gone and done it.
You've said all the things that people usually only think (or say to only one other person on the planet).
And you are right: the 2nd Amendment is not about CCW, hunting (ducks, quail, or whatever), or "target shooting," or even about repelling a foreign invasion.
But I think it is a serious mistake to take the intended meaning of the 2nd Amendment and use it as a guide to changing (i.e., correcting) public perceptions and attitudes concerning firearms.
The 2nd Amendment IS about keeping citizens armed in case of some kind of doomsday scenario in which the legitimate government becomes, or is taken over by, a dictatorship, a tyranny.
You are thinking and talking like a philosopher here--specifically, a political philosopher (which I have no problems with).
You're using the true intent of the 2nd Amendment to decide how one should act on the 2nd Amendment.
But THAT POINT OF VIEW is TOO philosophical for the vast majority of people to stomach.
The philosophical point of view can never be espoused, in a single bound, by the vast majority.
The majority is not made up of the philosophical equivalent of Superman!
[:p]
Psychological profiling has revealed over and over again that that type of mindset (the high-powered, long range, go-for-broke philosophical type) occurs in about 1% of the population.
So how do you preserve the 2nd Amendment in a way that can lead to fortifying and expanding the level of public (i.e., the vast majority's) commitment to it?
I think we need to ask the same question differently:
How do you get the same result (i.e., preservation and fortification of public commitment to the 2nd Amendment) without converting the vast majority to a totally new (& therefore alien) and PHILOSOPHICAL mindset regarding firearms?
You have to look at the characteristic mindset of the vast majority and APPEAL TO THE VAST MAJORITY'S VALUES.
The vast majority is UNphilosophical.
Even less does the vast majority have your penchant for that subset of philosophy known as "political philosophy" (those interested can start with The History of Political Philosophy by Leo Strauss & Joseph Cropsey).
The vast majority of people bases its decisions (or at least tries to) on two things: practicality and feeling (not on ideal truth and logic--crystal clear emotionless philosophical logic like yours [that was a compliment]).
We need to be practical and meet people where they are, not where we know they should be in terms of philosophical sophistication about the true nature of the 2nd Amendment and how best to live according to it (i.e., arm heavily, practice often, and pass the tradition on to the next generation--which is the best way in an ideal world).
After all, the vast majority's hesitation about firearms is no doubt partly due to a healthy and sane respect for the gun's awesome power of life and death.
People should never lose that, but we do need to get them to exercise their gun rights.
So, in order to "sell" the concept of the 2nd Amendment in a way that makes sense to the vast majority, it is necessary to emphasize the practical and the emotional.
In other words, emphasize that a gun is for protection of self (practical) and LOVED ONES (emotional).
Daily concealed carry is the issue we should be pushing.
We do that by changing the laws FIRST.
Then, once you have their attention (i.e., have created good CCW laws in EVERY state), from there you point out that you can only use a gun to protect yourself and loved ones if you are carrying it regularly (and practicing, etc.).
People are more likely to BEGIN carrying if the law allowing it is already in place (most people will not be comfortable with Alaska's and Vermont's way of doing things--EVEN THOUGH I DO AGREE THAT NO-PERMIT CARRY IS THE RIGHT WAY IF YOU LOOK ONLY AT WHAT THE 2ND AMENDMENT SAYS AND MEANS).
So, CHANGE THE LAWS AND PEOPLE WILL CARRY (to paraphrase the "build it and they will come" line).
This angle of approach is what ALREADY HAS appealed to the vast majority of people.
If you look at packing.org's info. about CCW ( http://www.packing.org/state/all_united_states/image.php?stateimage=117 ) , what you see is that over the last 18 years there has been a dramatic shift in people's attitudes. Before 1987 only 10 states recognized "Right to Carry."
Now, 38 states allow it.
THAT is a HUGE change in the nature of public attitude reflected legislatively.
And I think it is significant cause for optimism.
Why?
The owner of a pistol for self-protection is MUCH MORE LIKELY TO MOVE UP TO an AR or LONG GUN than a gunless person who is ignorant of, and indifferent to, the 2nd Amendment.
I think promoting CCW, and hence CCW-friendly legislation at state and local levels is the BEST (though not the most direct or philosophically PUREST) way to promote 2nd Amendment strength (i.e., rifles in Condition 1 in every law-abiding household).
We can do that by LOUDLY publicizing the success of PRO-CCW states which have experienced reduced crime by increasing CCW accessibility (and "stand your ground" legislation).
I think that attempting to promote "security," as intended in the wording of the 2nd Amendment, by FIRST urging everyone to go out and buy AR-15s before they are banned again is extreme, ineffective, and doomed to failure.
We 2nd Amendment supporters SIMPLY DO NOT HAVE THE LUXURY of even so much as giving the APPEARANCE that we are "extremists" because of the problems that are caused by extremists in other parts of the world.
We need to distance ourselves from an extremist image by carrying out a carefully planned and systematically executed campaign based on understanding what will appeal to the vast majority; we can do that by promoting commitment to the 2nd Amendment in small, gradual legislative steps.
This approach also lets the opposition remain ASLEEP--the anti-gun crowd has not been making any noise in the national media about the fact that pro-CCW legislation over the last 18 years has undergone a total reversal from 10 states allowing it to 10 prohibiting it since 1987!--THAT SHOULD BE THE BIGGEST NEWS ON EVERY MAJOR NETWORK CHANNEL EVERY NIGHT!
THAT IS A HUGE CHANGE!
So, people have to warm up to, and get comfortable with, the idea of firearms first.
You start by pointing out the need for CCW.
That's what worked with me!
I was gunless prior to 2003.
I used to think 2nd Amendment enthusiasts were "gun nuts."
Then I moved from the suburbs to the inner city because of my job.
I lived through the L.A. riots and moved around the L.A. area for a few more years before finally seeing the light (and buying half a dozen handguns--next on my list is a nice AR or bolt-action long gun).
The change in my thinking (from "don't care about guns" to "We law-abiding citizens should all be armed") took several years and a few bad and scary experiences.
But I am now totally committed to the cause of the 2nd Amendment (and CCW).
I think a slow, gradual approach focused on these two things is the strategy to take:
1] promoting CCW for self/loved-ones'-protection and
2] PRO-CCW legislation
. . . which is the best PHASE ONE of a LONG-TERM multi-phase transformation of the country's attitude from "don't care about guns" to "We law-abiding citizens should all be armed."
Recent history of CCW reform in this country has in fact already proven that slow, gradual change is the most powerful and the hardest to reverse.
PHASE TWO can then be "We should all be armed with our pocket pistols AND with battle-ready ARs or AKs."
PHASE THREE can include larger caliber bolt actions for the long range stuff.
To sum it up: I think we need to start small WHILE THINKING BIG.
[8D]
I believe that the Elites will prevent it..
Well written, indeed. It would work work. The exact process that would bring the American people back to the Constitution..all without even realizing it.
I believe that the Elites will prevent it..
I believe that you are right that the elites will ATTEMPT to prevent it.
After all, commonsense dictates such a probability.
However, the concrete proof that that attempt is doomed to failure is the last 18 years of CCW history in the good old U.S.A.: CCW, PRO-CCW legislation, and ever-increasing sales of legally purchased handguns condtradicts your well-founded pessimism.
In the last 18 years the unimaginable has happened: a HUGE proportion of the population has gone PRO-2nd-AMENDMENT.
The NRA, and every other PRO-2nd-AMENDMENT organization out there, should be acting on that fact by promoting with all their might the cause for CCW where it is most hated (LOS ANGELES, NEW YORK, D.C.).
Right now, the NRA seems to be resting on its laurels.
BIG MISTAKE.
WE NOW HAVE THE ADVANTAGE AND SHOULD BE GOING ON THE OFFENSIVE!!!
If the NRA would help a SHALL-ISSUE Sheriff get elected in Los Angeles County in June of 2006, that would send PRO-2nd-Amendment shock waves throughout the culture.
Our culture, whether anyone wants to admit it or not, is shaped by, or reacts against the shaping of, one force above all: HOLLYWOOD, which is located in LOS ANGELES COUNTY.
Now, the greedy anti-gun villains who control HOLLYWOOD are not invincible.
Their greatest strength, OVERWHELMING GREED, is also their GREATEST WEAKNESS.
If the greedy anti-gun villains who control HOLLYWOOD see the cultural climate change, they will respond accordingly.
THEY WILL MAKE PRO-2ND AMENDMENT MOVIES AND T.V. SHOWS.
Hollywood knows that its current virulent anti-white, anti-rural, anti-"redneck" bias is being approached by a wave of PRO-2nd-Amendment feeling, a wave that threatens to swamp HOLLYWOOD--which is why the latest "hit" sit-coms (NBC's "My name is Earl") and movies ("Brokeback Mtn." by Focus Features, headquarters located at Universal City Studios, which is owned by NBC) are BLATANT attempts to humiliate, besmirch, and discredit the kind of person usually thought of by the mainstream public as pro-gun (i.e., "rednecks" and "cowboys").
We are all familiar with the concept of the battle that turns the tide in a war.
Usually, there are a succession of such battles (not merely one), that create a momentum that carries combatants to victory.
Right now the PRO-2ND AMENDMENT people have that momentum but don't seem to realize that fact.
They also don't seem to realize where to focus the great bulk of their lobbying influence next: THE 2006 ELECTION CAMPAIGN FOR THE NEXT SHERIFF OF LOS ANGELES COUNTY.
Why?
Our Sheriff is the sole controller of who issues CCWs in this county of 4,084 square miles (over 10 million people).
Defeat him with a PRO-CCW, SHALL-ISSUE Sheriff, and I guarantee you that there will be tidal wave of applicants for CCW in LOS ANGELES COUNTY.
There is more pent-up demand (AND NEED) here than you all can possibly imagine.
We've got the anti-gun crowd on the run but does anyone realize it?
Why do you think the BATF is coming on so strong?
The citizens are arming themselves in ever greater numbers.
BATF can't stop that.
The only thing it can do is close the stores.
THAT'S WHY BATF is getting so fanatical.
We need to take a more sophisticated approach.
We need to learn which Congressional and Senate committees have influence over BATF and PUT PRESSURE ON THOSE LEGISLATORS.
Hell, we can do that for free (virtually).
We just all need to regularly send loud letters, faxes and e-mails voicing complaint--and promise to withhold support in elections if our needs are not acknowledged.
At that national level, we need to pressure legislators to curb the BATF.
At the local level:
THE 2006 ELECTION CAMPAIGN FOR THE NEXT SHERIFF OF LOS ANGELES COUNTY IS THE NEXT GREAT BATTLEGROUND.
[B)]
L.A. influences the rest of California.
California influences the rest of the country.
There's an old saying that has proven correct in many crucial battles of the culture wars over the decades:
"As California goes, so goes the country."
Every 2nd Amendment supporter should have one eye on his own state and ONE UNBLINKING EYE ON CALIFORNIA.
[:(!]
Hope you take this the way it is being offered.
Your posts are REALLY HARD to read. With the font, oversized text, and colors, there are a lot of people that will skip right over it. Which is too bad, since it looks like you have something to contribute.
AIMSML_MSSML,
Hope you take this the way it is being offered.
Your posts are REALLY HARD to read. With the font, oversized text, and colors, there are a lot of people that will skip right over it. Which is too bad, since it looks like you have something to contribute.
Thanks for pointing that out.
I'm near-sighted, so I thought I was being helpful.
I'll keep it simple from now on.
[;)]
I went back and edited a little to make it less bright (I had used red in the spirit of "red state").
[:p]
I think that I and every other 2nd-Amendment-supporter should aim at not "turning off" those with whom we attempt to communicate our important message, so thanks for pointing out what was not obvious to me.
[:D]
[:o)][:o)][:o)]
I think if you buy guns...you should have at least a small spark of awareness for what they are trying to do. Why??? is what I would like for someone to tell me.... Just what are the anti-gun people thinking? How is taking guns away from US going to be the answer? What mother wouldn't want their children to grow up and be appreciative of their history and know enough about firearms to be safe and able to defend themselves? Criminals are going to have it so easy if they have things their way.
The BATFE may be busy covering there *'s at the hearing for a while. Maybe they will be forced to leave you alone for awhile .
To be perfectly honest, I've seen several good ideas for protecting FFL dealers presented here. My personal favorite (and the most likely to effect real change) is the establishment of the FFL's own Security Team at the location (hidden until needed, of course). However, this idea of FFL holders across the country networking and joining together, pooling resources, has to be the the next runner up. Both ideas incorporated with each other would make a serious statement which the BATFE couldn't ignore, or destroy, without further, very bad, national attention: As has been stated before, they don't want/can't afford another Ruby Ridge or Waco incident.
However, the idea of convincing the general public to care at all about FFL dealers seems to me to be rather futile. The general public doesn't care. I'm not talking about other shooters or dealers, I'm talking about Joe Schmoe, Soccer Moms and the unparented generation(s) out there. They'd rather watch reality shows, play video games, shop at the mall or do just about anything than care about anyone else other than themselves. If it doesn't effect (affect?) them, they could care less. (And they don't realize that it'll effect them in the very near future...very severely.).
Time and resources would be much better spent in getting FFL dealers, and gun owners, united and working together to keep tabs on Gestapo agencies, keep them on serious notice that they can't do what they're trying to do, and stopping them in their tracks if/when they do. Not to mention having the resources to crush them in court (the right attorneys, the right jurisdictions, the right judges, etc.).
I've heard about this "three strikes" game they're trying to play. If it were me on the receiving end of these tactics, I'd play along and jump through their hoops, sure. But in the meantime I'd also be planning on, once they revoked my "license", to continue to do business as always, but without the paperwork. I might even start GIVING guns away, so long as I knew the people I was giving them to to have the right mind-set, of course. But, that's when you'd REALLY need a Security Team watching over you...24/7.
Just my two cents, folks. [8D]
'dog.