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Hi,
I was at a store last week in Orlando and remembered reading your topic and the topic about the new clause in the patriot act that requires all 4473's go to atf/fbi instead of kept on premises unless the business closes.
The store was very busy so while the guy was filling out the paperwork I asked about it. He said he thought the atf taking all the 4473's was a 'great' idea. I asked him why he thought that, he said it would be alot easier for him. They get alot of gun traces that takes up alot of time the way it is now. That makes sense to me but it still seems like a way to have a national gun registration act.
I asked about the 3 strikes paperwork. He was kinda distant, vague but said yeah he's heard of it. He said 'You have to go to a hearing if you have too many mistakes'. He wouldn't really say how many or anything though. They have a policy of having another employee double checking the paperwork, numbers, ect. right then at the time of sale. And they are a very busy store. I would bet they've 'been there' the way he acted to my question.
I stepped out for awhile. Ms. Locust Fork, I truly feel for you in this situation but remember, David did best Goliath in a face to face confrontation on Goliath's terms. Each of these ATF agents is or at least was a human being. They eat real food, sleep at night and bleed real blood. They have many vulnerabilities and if they keep on the pace they are, there are quite a few wacko's or should I say "true Americans" out there just waiting for the final straw so that they may begin exploiting those weaknesses. They've walked the high wire long enough, it's time we knock them off. Your story is just one more in a long list of reasons why the ATF needs an attitude adjustment. I'm not diminishing your problem just pointing out the bigger picture. I should think that you could find a pro-gun lawyer in Alabama that would take on your representation pro bono as long as you have hard nosed representation with a reputation for destroying the BATFE, they will leave you be. At least for long enough for your attorney to get apathy to the situation, don't let this happen. Keep the lawyer apprised of the situation at all times.
If this is not something that you think can be accomplished or you have a hard time asking for free stuff, I'd be happy to investigate the possibilities and even contact the best legal minds Alabama has to offer if that would be of any help.
It is high time the members of this forum do something instead of typing out what a bad * they are (me included) so let's band together on behalf of Locust Fork and see what we might be able to do. I really like the "American Association of Licensed Firearms Dealers" idea. There is definitely strength in numbers. Knowledge of the misconduct of the BATFE is actually hard to find outside of the avid gun owner's community, very little is known about them. In fact I'd be willing to bet that the majority of the people blame the FBI and not the BATFE for Ruby Ridge and Waco. They wouldn't even place the BATFE at the scene, just the FBI and they say ignorance is bliss. Yeah, right up until all of our rights as American's are stripped away will ignorance be found anything but blissful to the intellectually challenged and inept.
Helping out an FFL may bring about the formation of such an industry-wide group by way of serving to expose an example of how it's manifestation may benefit all FFL's. I shouldn't think it a hard sell and all that is needed is leadership and some kind of blueprint of it's operational strategies. Hell, between all of us we could come up with that. I bet five or six lawyers could be found that would be delighted to be council for such a group and pro bono to boot. Ted Nugent himself may love nothing more than to act as President of such an Association and with Ted comes a whole lot of money, power, and, most importantly, legitimacy. The BATFE may think twice before going up against an organization such as that and I don't believe one would have much difficulty in convincing FFL's to pony up monthly dues. I've been tolds I can sell ice cubes to Eskimoes, I believe this would be more like selling Hawaiian sun tan lotion to a teenage * Waikiki Beach. Not really too difficult. There would need to be two seperate boards, one made up of FFL's and the other of the organizations founders and administration. I'm not interested!
I really want to get the organization together. I really do believe it would be a GREAT thing. There are so many little issues that the FFL holders have to go to the ATF to ask questions about...it would be a lot better if we had a team we could go to and get answers to questions and feel like we are giving "the enemy" our weak points.
Like...when a person under the age of 21 wants to buy a pistol grip shotgun...he's not old enough to own one, but where EXACTLY does it say this? When you sell a gun using the internet and send it to the FFL holder what information should you send with the gun for them to be able to "book it in?"
I would love a few names if you had them to contact about this three strikes thing....only I kind of want to take a run at the guys who are in the last of the stages and nearer to closing. They probobly would see this like a knight on a white horse coming their way. If we can help them fight this before they have used it to close any stores....then it would be easier to fight them. If they close even ONE store using this "three strikes" thing it will be 10 times harder to stop and will spread like a pandemic in no time.
Locust Fork, I want to speak candidally but don't want you to get the wrong idea. I very much want to know about gun selling/ownership problems like you are having. Not only does your problems effect you, but down the road they might effect me. I like most gun owners and gun dealers because they usually turn out to be my kind of people and we for sure are interested in the same hobby. So if I could write a letter or flip a switch or had the money and could rid any gun owner/ffl holder of any unfair problems I would gladly and quickly do so. However, as you know it takes time, effort, interest and money to combat/solve most problems.
In that regard your time and effort being expended I believe that you would be better off trying to alert, motivate, organize, etc. your fellow FFL holders. I feel sure you will get more results than if you try to obtain help from various members of a gun rights forum.
It is not that we don't want to help, it is just that we have too loose a connection via only having this forum for association, our interests (even involving guns) are too diverse to easily mold us into any kind of effective force.
By contrast, if I myself was an FFL holder, long ago I would have phoned you and you and I would have been working on contacting/organizing/alerting other FFL holders.
BTW, did you ever contact that already existing firearm dealers association as recommended by GB admin over on the general discussion forum?
I would seriously consider contacting the below listed organization to see if they can either be of help to you or know of a better place to get help:
#
MEMBERSHIP HAS ITS PRIVILEGES . . . The benefits of belonging to NSSF, the trade association for the firearms, hunting and shooting sports industry, are many, as thousands of individuals and companies have discovered. In fact, current membership stands at more than 2,800, reports Bettyjane Swann, NSSF manager of member services, with more than 1,000 new members enrolling in the last 12 months. SHOT Show offers some of those member benefits, including preference points for booth selection and admittance to both the Members Lounge and Business Center. For more information on how to become a member, contact bswann@nssf.org or 203-426-1320.
Well, I called some of the gun shops in town. I don't think this report is going to help you any. Some were almost "hostile" when they found out what I was asking about. Not nasty, just seemed like since they were either not going to make a buck, or since it was an unsolicited phone call from someone they didn't know, they didn't even want to waste their time talking to me. I got the feeling from some that they may have thought I was a BATF agent fishing for information to use against them.
Others "hinted" that the BATF has been "around" checking their records, more than they used to be. Others gave me the impression that they were afraid they were going to be closed down before long.
Bottom line is that I did not get a straight answer from anybody. I don't know if it was the fact that I was just a "Joe blow" off the street, with no credentials, or that the BATF has them all running so scared that they are afraid to even TALK about it.
This is just my personal opinion, but after doing this, I get the feeling that there IS a problem here also.
If anyone feels like they can get some light on this by printing out the beginning of this post and faxing it to a store....please do. I started this forum post with a message I had typed out and was giving out to our customers. I reads a bit awkward...because I had edited it down to one page. That message may help break the ice and open a few eyes to how BIG this is. I would love to have had any kind of warning about what was going on a couple of years ago. When you are a business and audits are being conducted it seems normal (at first.) Then...you realize you are two steps into a three step process that pulls your license. It is all too much to deal with for one store alone, but if it is widespread (it HAS to be) we are all in trouble.....meaning gun owners, not store owners. Thanks for checking around for me.
Have you compared notes with the people at NSSF at bswann@nssf.org or 203-426-1320? What about contacting your local NRA field representative directly, the GOA or SAF?
About two months before our store was due for the 2nd audit...we had hired extra people to come in and audit our books...we stayed late and everyone worked 14 days straight to try and get things "perfect" for when they (the ATF agents) came. We were as ready as anyone could be. We kept on top of everything and everyone was turning into monsters toward each other...Finally they came! We were going to be audited and things would go back to normal. WRONG! They (of course) found the stupidest thing to count as a "hit."
Thats when we found ourselves at "step two" and couldn't see how this could be prevented. We are a normal everyday business with nothing criminal going on...we couldn't do any better than we have been. If this is not good enough...then the gun business is on its way out (along with the right to buy a gun.) I was SO MAD!!! I typed the message that started this discussion and handed it out to some of the customers.
I have e-mailed my message to just about EVERYONE....with no response from anyone. I hope to get the attention of someone more important than I am...then maybe someone will listen to them. I will continue to tell anyone who will listen, or read, this horrible agenda of the ATF.
They are looking for people like you that are being picked on by JACK BOOTED THUGS from the BATFE.
Good luck[8D]
A well armed society is the best form of homeland security.
Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6.
A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.
Make yourselves sheep, and the wolves will eat you.
They are looking for people like you that are being picked on by JACK BOOTED THUGS from the BATFE.
Good luck[8D]
A well armed society is the best form of homeland security.
Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6.
A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.
Make yourselves sheep, and the wolves will eat you.
I'll second this advice, the JPFO is very aggressive in their defense of our gun right and especially those at the top of the chain, the manufacturers and dealers. I strongly recommend you take shootsright's advice and contact them. You sound as thoough you have nearly reached desperation, I guess the BATFE has never heard that 'desperate people do desperate things'. I wouldn't want to be in a BATFE uniform (outfit) if I was on this crusade of theirs. No way, sooner or later one of those desperate people is going to do something desperate and considering they own gun shops..., you do the math.
I feel for you and wish there were more that we here could do, other than floating the word around seeing if anyone 'bigger' than we are bites. If you seriously want to be protected, you need to contact the gun rights org's, they will watch your back and AUDIT the BATFE if they get out of line. The BATFE knows that they are underclassmen to groups like the NRA and others. Their worst nightmare is for one of the big 'guns' to come after them instead of the other way around. Turning the tables on an alphabet org. is always dangerous so just get the pro's in your corner. Call and write today! I also told you of many lawyers that will take a case like this pro bono. You really need to start looking for one. They do it for the pleasure of being a pain in the * for the BATFE. If I were an actual attorney, I play one on television, (joke) I'd be doing it too. By the way I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night...just in case anyone was wondering!(again, just a little humor to lighten an otherwise gloomy topic)
Good luck and you should have a pre-prepared email and post ready in case they do pull it off, this way we will all know and may be able to do something or at least bug the snit out of the BATFE for 'freedom of information' as we are entitled.
I have sent a copy of the message at the beggining of this forum to all links that people have suggested...I have not gotten a respone from any of them. Maybe if I send it multiple times I will get a response.
It was so great to see how someone getting pushed around by the ATF had gotten so much anger from one group. This man was accused of having a full auto when it was a broken gun...some can be "full auto" if things wear down just right. This man had spent $30,000.00 defending himself only to have the charges dropped in the end.
Something like that has happened to my father. He was accused in the 80's of making "straw man" purchases. He had gone through a GIANT horrible spell fighting the charges and in the end spent $360,000.00 only to have the charges dropped in the end. I wish it were possible to sue the ATF for destroying his life for 10 whole years. They should at least have to pay him back the money he spent fighting them.
The three strikes policy is a bit different....this could close stores using perfectly legal ways in a very unfair manner. I think the power of the ATF should be pulled tight and limit their ability to govern themselves stopped. Sending out memos and newletters that change the way we handle gun sales is MAKING GUN LAWS themselves.
If they sent out a newsletter that said "as of January 4th 2006 anyone who buys two long guns requires a multiple purchase form to be filled out by the seller" We would just have to do it. Nothing stops them from being able to run this any way they see fit. If we can stop them we may have a chance...but if not guns will go away.
Still waiting...any day now we could be audited and then...? I really thought our biggest time of year would be the time they would come. I think they are waiting because of how vocal I have been. I really think that they watch things like this forum. I have handed out fliers and tried to get the attention of gun supporting groups. All of this must be paying off a tiny bit (or at least delaying the whole thing for us.)
I am not only concerned for our store...the others need this to be stopped. All stores and FFL holders need this to be stopped.
Locustfork, you described unfair situations whereas innocent people were unlawfully charged by the ATF, then spent years and tens of thousands of dollars trying to stay out of prison and then in the end the ATF just dropped charges.
This type of action by law enforcement is the "hidden power" or "unoffical punishment" that all law enforcement has available to them if they are unethical enough to use it. Say even a street cop stops you for no good reason, you mouth off and make him/her mad so they arrest you on a very, very weak charge, haul you off to jail, make you post bond and appear in court where the judge dismisses the case. Maybe the judge dismisses the case because he/she sees it is a weak/unjust case or maybe because the officer doesn't even show up for court. So yeah, you get off but you have suffer already with having to endure the legal process so far, probably had to take off work, had to hire an attorney just to be safe, etc.
What I'm getting at is that any unethical law enforcement agency knows how to administer punishment, maybe to the point of almost destroying the innocent individual, if they are unethical enough to actually do it. I don't think many people know this or think about this.
The ATF seems to be bad in everyones eyes...not one person is ever thankful we have this group. How do you stop them? Why is everyone letting them be this way?
quote:Originally posted by Locust Fork
The ATF seems to be bad in everyones eyes...not one person is ever thankful we have this group. How do you stop them? Why is everyone letting them be this way?
That is a very good question to which I have no good answer.
quote:How do you stop them?
They will not and can not be stopped by conventional means.All your letters,e-mails,and begging of congressmen mean nothing at all.
quote:Why is everyone letting them be this way?
They are that way because people like me are called radical..extremist..condemmed by 'decent people'...
Because I defend the Second Amendment EXACTLY AS WRITTEN..and not the rationalized away "Gun Rights " we have today.
They are that way because most gun people believe in gun control, in other words.....
""We found that the ATF's inspection program is not fully effective
for ensuring that FFLs comply with federal firearms laws because
inspections are infrequent and of inconsistent quality, and follow-up
inspections and adverse actions have been sporadic. The ATF concurred
with most of our recommendations and has begun to implement changes
to improve the consistency with which it conducts follow-up inspections and takes adverse actions.""
The Office of the Inspector General (OIG) conducted this review to assess the effectiveness of the ATF's program for inspecting FFLs and to examine how this program assists in enforcing federal firearms laws.""
""For example, we purchased firearms from licensed
firearms dealers using counterfeit driver's licenses. The majority of
firearms dealers we contacted complied with the then-existing federal
and state law governing such purchases, including instant background
checks required by the Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act of
1993.[Footnote 2] However, the instant background check only discloses whether the prospective purchaser is a person whose possession of a firearm would be unlawful. Consequently, if the prospective purchaser is using a fictitious identity, as our investigators did, an instant background check is not effective.""
Firearms Purchased from Federal Firearms Licensees Using Bogus
Identification:
From October 2000 through February 2001, we used counterfeit driver's
licenses with fictitious identifiers to purchase firearms from federal firearm licensees in five states--Virginia, West Virginia, Montana, New Mexico, and Arizona. The weapons purchased included (1) a 9mm stainless semiautomatic pistol, (2) a .380 semiautomatic pistol, (3) a 7.62mm Russian-manufactured rifle, (4) a .22 caliber semiautomatic rifle, (5) a 9mm semiautomatic pistol, and (6) a .25 caliber semiautomatic pistol.
The five states in which we purchased firearms conformed to the Brady
Handgun Violence Prevention Act of 1993[Footnote 9] by requiring
instant background checks. For the most part, the federal firearm
licensees we contacted adhered to then-existing federal and state laws regarding such purchases, including the instant background checks. Because we used counterfeit driver's licenses and fictitious identities there was no negative information in the system about the names we created.[Footnote 10]
Purchase of Firearms Using a Counterfeit Federal Firearms License:
In January 2002, we purchased a firearm from a licensed federal
firearms dealer using a counterfeit federal firearms license. We
established a fictitious sporting goods company in Virginia by using a legitimate federal firearms license and altering it to insert the name and address of our fictitious business. We then contacted a legitimate federal firearms dealer in Texas, posing as an individual wanting to purchase a .32 caliber semiautomatic pistol and have it shipped to Virginia. When the dealer stated that he could only mail the pistol to another federal firearms licensee, another investigator called the dealer, represented himself to be a licensed federal firearms dealer, and faxed a copy of a counterfeit license. The Texas dealer accepted the license and mailed the pistol. We also reported on two instances in which individuals purchased firearms using counterfeit or altered federal firearms licenses.[Footnote 11]
How many people knew about that? They ADMIT their own system is easily scammed by criminals. Look at how many FFL's the Govt. tricked into illegally selling firearms.
The LAST thing I want is for them to start "improving" their system...there is no doubt that whatever they come up with to make things better will be a GIANT step in the wrong direction.
Just about every day I have reason to stop a sale because people try to get a gun when they can't buy one. If a person wants a gun they will find a way to get it.....the FFL holder is on the "good guy" side of this. We are the ones that say "No, we can't do things this way...you have to fill out the paper...not your friend." I have sent many away for not having the proper ID (you JUST TRY and get someone speaking only Spanish to bring three consecutive months utility bills with their name on it showing residence)
Its hard enough without the ATF "improving things" I would love it if all ATF agents had to do a bit of retail sales time before they got their badges. If each one of them had about two months experience actually DOING the job they are auditing they would be a bit kinder to the ones they are about to slam. They would then realize how much it really takes to be behind that counter and that the criminals aren't always trying to buy the guns from stores BUT there are mistakes made.
Locust Fork;
You still miss the point. The idea of the batf is NOT to 'help you out' in your business....
The Idea is to DRIVE you out of business.
These enforcers are merely carrying out the wishes of the Elite...and all those warm fuzzy "President Bush is on our side" deluded people in the world cannot change the facts.
I have not missed as much as you think...the ATF has been an evil lot of folk for as long as I remember. I am only pointing out that if "WE" are in charge of "THEM" being a giant group of voters....then how can they go on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on ..... being this group that makes so many upset with how they do things????
Why aren't they in "hot water" instead of just meandering around and dumping their power whenever they feel like it (like a giant bird in the sky.) I have had my windshield pooped on twice now...and they are hovering above again!
The reason that the batf isn't in hot water is because MOST GUN OWNERS BELIEVE IN GUN CONTROL.....and the egregious examples of abuse are not enough to cause worry in the minds of those gun owners.
The batf could not exist for ONE MOMENT if the gun owners of this country rose up and DEMANDED the end of the agency.
Surely you have read some of the arguments on this forum..between those INSISTING that the Second Amendment is a RIGHT...and those perfectly willing to compromise that right away to forstall some scary "Total Gun Ban"...not realizing that they play right into the hands of those disarming us ? WHY would you expect the batf to be in trouble with those kinds of people...?
As long as they can still crawl on their bellies enough to get some of the weaponry they want..there will NEVER be enough of an outcry to make a difference...
Join the Firearm Retailers Association....push to make FFL Dealers Federal Employees and paid for their service for uncle sam.
Currently y'all are required to do more for the Govt. than the average WG or GS Civil Servant for no money at all from Uncle Sam. As a Civil Servant you would lose responsibility and accountability.
I hope you are kidding...I cannot imagine having any more of the government involved in my life. I wish I could go crawl in a hole sometimes....but not today.
Still not crawling in a hole....got something in the mail the other day. My husband has his FFL now. We got it strickly to use for the internet sales. No 4473 EVER...only transfers (thats how we explained we have planned to do things.) It will be pretty hard for the ATF to use that "three strikes" policy when dealing with this license.
I am still VERY worried about the store....all stores really. If we have no more gun stores to go to how will we go on? Its like being part of some horrible unstoppable events. We need more say so in our future. I think if the ATF has it their way we will all be lined up dropping our guns into a melting pot.
LF
Take a look at whats going down in NY State
with a Repubican Gov.. Six new bills out of
the house headed for the sen. at the state
leavel and the Gov will sign them.
N.Y. Anti-Gun Package
Headed to State Senate
NEW YORKERS URGED TO TAKE ACTION . . . The New York State Assembly passed a package of anti-gun bills last week that would not only negatively impact law-abiding firearms retailers, but also shooters and hunters statewide. The package, which includes bills A 9280, A 2466A, A 2837, A 4471A, A 2302 and A 673A, will next head to the State Senate.
A 9280 would impose many new unnecessary restrictions and regulations on law-abiding retailers, while the other bills would create new restrictions not only affecting retailers, but all of the state's law-abiding gun owners. These measures include a ban on the sale and possession of 50-caliber firearms, outlawing certain types of ammunition, an expansion to the state's ban on so-called "assault weapons" and making new crimes for "negligent storage" of firearms.
New Yorkers should not waste any time in contacting their state senators, urging them to oppose these anti-gun measures. In addition to contacting their legislators, New York's firearms retailers are encouraged to join the newly formed New York State Association of Firearms Retailers by contacting Greg Costa at 518-584-5098 or Bettyjane Swann at 203-426-1320.
Everyone needs to do all they can to stop this from happening....from every state. This country is becoming a giant puzzle. Each piece they turn into non-gun areas makes it easier for them to go after the next. If you think California's gun laws are insane and unbelievable that they let that kind of restriction pass into law....its not far from your back door. Its a slime of uneducated sheep letting the out of control government regulate every waking second of their lives.
I want no part of that kind of country. I want the strong...able to think for themselves...and wide awake/aware of what we need and don't need people. This is getting crazy. If they keep this up we will all be in matching uniforms, eating the food they have deamed "good for us." We will have to take a little pill before getting on the bus that takes us to our job that they have decided we get to do....because without the pill...we may use our sporks to hurt ourselves or others at snack time.
Locust Fork;
Perhaps you will not be so strong in your criticism of those of us that have been in this for 40 years...watching the greatest country on earth being destroyed from within.
The measures you talk about have been tried...often. There is no stopping the juggernaut with your appeals to politicians/alphabet agencies...nor to ordinary people.
Not EVEN appeals to gun owners, you see...because the majority of gun owners SUPPORT gun control...finally, I had to ask myself.."Self...why should I support people that call themselves gun-owners..yet they support gun laws..???? "
Sounds like yet another defination of INSANITY...
How could anyone support gun control? I do not see how ANYONE who has 11 (or more) brain cells can be in favor of restricting people who obey the law and own guns.
The first ten brain cells are busy with basic functions...like breathing, reflexes, and such....BUT if you have that 11th brain cell!!! You then are able to see that people who are criminals don't follow the law and the laws that get passed are only limiting the rights of law abiding citizens.
I think if you have about 15 brain cells you become aware that guns are a basic right that this country was founded on and the taking of guns from the people would be like painting over great art....and the little restrictions some see as "good for everyone" is as silly as putting boxers on Michelangelo's David.
I have had many people ask...."would you sell a gun to anyone?" I simply answer..."if they fill that form out and the background check says I can." BUT if you really sit down with our constitution...it does not say anything about deserving to own a gun. The amendments and crazy thigs added to "protect" us have gotten out of control.
I am all for burning everything after the first draft.
Locust Fork;
Some of the most bitter arguments on these forums...and in real life..center around so-called "Pro-Gun" people defending waiting periods/back ground checks..or some other freedom destroying law put forth by the Elites.
The basic idea..that we punish those ABUSING firearms..always seems foreign to these types of people.
The point I have been making...How in hell can we castigate the Shumers/Fiendsteins/Kennedys..avowed Socialists all...and allow rattlesnakes to bed down right NEXT to us ?
Began to grasp why I believe that it's OVER....That freedom is a thing of the past..and the only hope is for decent people to withdraw ?
From reading some of your other posts..(Getting to shoes,ect..) I expect it would take more then a day or two to round up your arms..[:D]
"Dropping out" is best done in your own neighborhood...you know the area, you have an idea whom to trust..and not...
Understand, please...I wish you no ill will. You are in a profession that is literally "under the gun"..slated to be destroyed by the very government you pay huge sums of money to protect the heart and soul of America...the Gun shops and Constitution of America.
Back in the days before 'yellow sheets'...gun shop owners were my dearest friends..many of them.
Yes, I have a "few" guns around....it would be a lot better if they were all what I like and not 90% Larry's. I'm not complaining...BUT he has a thing for old military rifles and I am a upper-end shotgun lover (with a real love of 1911's.)
Also, if you sell guns and you end up with a "burn"....that is something you get to look at for a VERY long time. For example: you buy a Springfield micro for $650 and they drop the price a full $100 the next week. I love that gun, but not $100 over wholesale kind of "love."
Locust Fork, I'm posting this in case you haven't seen it already. I just got it today.
Good Luck,
Wolf
ALERT FROM JEWS FOR THE PRESERVATION OF FIREARMS OWNERSHIP
America's Aggressive Civil Rights Organization
January 27, 2006
JPFO ALERT: HAVE YOU BEEN CONTACTED BY THE BATFE?
Congress will do nothing to stop BATFE abuses of gun owners
unless Congress hears from us loud and clear. Courts won't
protect our rights until they realize that our rights are
being violated. Our publicizing the Glover matter --
including the video of the botched BATFE "test" of the
alleged "machine gun" -- has already sent shockwaves through
BATFE. That was just one example. Imagine the effects
when we can report dozens, even hundreds of examples of
BATFE harassment, hostility, heavy-handedness, and
oppressive conduct!
As part of our Boot the BATFE campaign, we are asking
firearms owners and dealers to help us collect reports of
BATFE hostility, harassment and oppressive conduct. We
need to get solid information, real case examples, and
estimated counts of BATFE actions against us. Put on your
boots, and help us get this job done.
If you have ever been contacted by the BATFE, please take a
few minutes to complete the report form, available at
www.jpfo.org/batfeform.htm . And please, do so without
delay. Our campaign can succeed only if we can gather this
information rapidly. Speed builds momentum. Momentum
causes change. And serious change is what we need in order
to block BATFE from abusing gun owners. At the very least,
the questionnaire will help eliminate the all-to-common
dismissal of gun owners as "not knowing what they're
talking about."
Don't forget that we have a variety of other Boot Tools to
help our campaign and spread the word. Visit our online
store at www.jpfo.org/store.htm for stickers, t-shirts,
pins, and of course the tape that started it all: _BATFE
Fails the Test_ ( http://www.jpfo.org/batfevideo.htm ).
The only thing necessary for the triumph of nasty
government agencies is for citizens to do nothing. We have
a Constitutional right to voice our grievances against
overstepping agencies. Please report your BATFE incident
(big or small) to us right away.
- The Liberty Crew
P.S. Naturally, some people may worry about providing this
information to us for our survey of BATFE incidents. There
is no reason for you to worry. We pledge to maintain the
information in strict confidence. We will not voluntarily
disclose this information to any government agency, nor to
any outside business, organization or individual, without
first asking for your written permission.
We do need truthful information, however, to be sure that
our survey will be accurate. That is why we need your real
name and location. We need your contact phone or e-mail
also so that we can verify the report came from you, and so
we can contact you if we need to ask permission to use the
information.
ALERT FROM JEWS FOR THE PRESERVATION OF FIREARMS OWNERSHIP
America's Aggressive Civil Rights Organization
January 27, 2006
JPFO ALERT: HAVE YOU BEEN CONTACTED BY THE BATFE?
Congress will do nothing to stop BATFE abuses of gun owners
unless Congress hears from us loud and clear. Courts won't
protect our rights until they realize that our rights are
being violated. Our publicizing the Glover matter --
including the video of the botched BATFE "test" of the
alleged "machine gun" -- has already sent shockwaves through
BATFE. That was just one example. Imagine the effects
when we can report dozens, even hundreds of examples of
BATFE harassment, hostility, heavy-handedness, and
oppressive conduct!
As part of our Boot the BATFE campaign, we are asking
firearms owners and dealers to help us collect reports of
BATFE hostility, harassment and oppressive conduct. We
need to get solid information, real case examples, and
estimated counts of BATFE actions against us. Put on your
boots, and help us get this job done.
If you have ever been contacted by the BATFE, please take a
few minutes to complete the report form, available at
www.jpfo.org/batfeform.htm . And please, do so without
delay. Our campaign can succeed only if we can gather this
information rapidly. Speed builds momentum. Momentum
causes change. And serious change is what we need in order
to block BATFE from abusing gun owners. At the very least,
the questionnaire will help eliminate the all-to-common
dismissal of gun owners as "not knowing what they're
talking about."
Don't forget that we have a variety of other Boot Tools to
help our campaign and spread the word. Visit our online
store at www.jpfo.org/store.htm for stickers, t-shirts,
pins, and of course the tape that started it all: _BATFE
Fails the Test_ ( http://www.jpfo.org/batfevideo.htm ).
The only thing necessary for the triumph of nasty
government agencies is for citizens to do nothing. We have
a Constitutional right to voice our grievances against
overstepping agencies. Please report your BATFE incident
(big or small) to us right away.
- The Liberty Crew
P.S. Naturally, some people may worry about providing this
information to us for our survey of BATFE incidents. There
is no reason for you to worry. We pledge to maintain the
information in strict confidence. We will not voluntarily
disclose this information to any government agency, nor to
any outside business, organization or individual, without
first asking for your written permission.
We do need truthful information, however, to be sure that
our survey will be accurate. That is why we need your real
name and location. We need your contact phone or e-mail
also so that we can verify the report came from you, and so
we can contact you if we need to ask permission to use the
information.
Comments
Birmingham has been covered...how about Dallas...Tucson...Orlando...Portland? Are they hitting other stores in this way?
The gene pool needs chlorine.
I was at a store last week in Orlando and remembered reading your topic and the topic about the new clause in the patriot act that requires all 4473's go to atf/fbi instead of kept on premises unless the business closes.
The store was very busy so while the guy was filling out the paperwork I asked about it. He said he thought the atf taking all the 4473's was a 'great' idea. I asked him why he thought that, he said it would be alot easier for him. They get alot of gun traces that takes up alot of time the way it is now. That makes sense to me but it still seems like a way to have a national gun registration act.
I asked about the 3 strikes paperwork. He was kinda distant, vague but said yeah he's heard of it. He said 'You have to go to a hearing if you have too many mistakes'. He wouldn't really say how many or anything though. They have a policy of having another employee double checking the paperwork, numbers, ect. right then at the time of sale. And they are a very busy store. I would bet they've 'been there' the way he acted to my question.
Good luck!
If this is not something that you think can be accomplished or you have a hard time asking for free stuff, I'd be happy to investigate the possibilities and even contact the best legal minds Alabama has to offer if that would be of any help.
It is high time the members of this forum do something instead of typing out what a bad * they are (me included) so let's band together on behalf of Locust Fork and see what we might be able to do. I really like the "American Association of Licensed Firearms Dealers" idea. There is definitely strength in numbers. Knowledge of the misconduct of the BATFE is actually hard to find outside of the avid gun owner's community, very little is known about them. In fact I'd be willing to bet that the majority of the people blame the FBI and not the BATFE for Ruby Ridge and Waco. They wouldn't even place the BATFE at the scene, just the FBI and they say ignorance is bliss. Yeah, right up until all of our rights as American's are stripped away will ignorance be found anything but blissful to the intellectually challenged and inept.
Helping out an FFL may bring about the formation of such an industry-wide group by way of serving to expose an example of how it's manifestation may benefit all FFL's. I shouldn't think it a hard sell and all that is needed is leadership and some kind of blueprint of it's operational strategies. Hell, between all of us we could come up with that. I bet five or six lawyers could be found that would be delighted to be council for such a group and pro bono to boot. Ted Nugent himself may love nothing more than to act as President of such an Association and with Ted comes a whole lot of money, power, and, most importantly, legitimacy. The BATFE may think twice before going up against an organization such as that and I don't believe one would have much difficulty in convincing FFL's to pony up monthly dues. I've been tolds I can sell ice cubes to Eskimoes, I believe this would be more like selling Hawaiian sun tan lotion to a teenage * Waikiki Beach. Not really too difficult. There would need to be two seperate boards, one made up of FFL's and the other of the organizations founders and administration. I'm not interested!
Like...when a person under the age of 21 wants to buy a pistol grip shotgun...he's not old enough to own one, but where EXACTLY does it say this? When you sell a gun using the internet and send it to the FFL holder what information should you send with the gun for them to be able to "book it in?"
I would love a few names if you had them to contact about this three strikes thing....only I kind of want to take a run at the guys who are in the last of the stages and nearer to closing. They probobly would see this like a knight on a white horse coming their way. If we can help them fight this before they have used it to close any stores....then it would be easier to fight them. If they close even ONE store using this "three strikes" thing it will be 10 times harder to stop and will spread like a pandemic in no time.
In that regard your time and effort being expended I believe that you would be better off trying to alert, motivate, organize, etc. your fellow FFL holders. I feel sure you will get more results than if you try to obtain help from various members of a gun rights forum.
It is not that we don't want to help, it is just that we have too loose a connection via only having this forum for association, our interests (even involving guns) are too diverse to easily mold us into any kind of effective force.
By contrast, if I myself was an FFL holder, long ago I would have phoned you and you and I would have been working on contacting/organizing/alerting other FFL holders.
BTW, did you ever contact that already existing firearm dealers association as recommended by GB admin over on the general discussion forum?
#
MEMBERSHIP HAS ITS PRIVILEGES . . . The benefits of belonging to NSSF, the trade association for the firearms, hunting and shooting sports industry, are many, as thousands of individuals and companies have discovered. In fact, current membership stands at more than 2,800, reports Bettyjane Swann, NSSF manager of member services, with more than 1,000 new members enrolling in the last 12 months. SHOT Show offers some of those member benefits, including preference points for booth selection and admittance to both the Members Lounge and Business Center. For more information on how to become a member, contact bswann@nssf.org or 203-426-1320.
Well, I called some of the gun shops in town. I don't think this report is going to help you any. Some were almost "hostile" when they found out what I was asking about. Not nasty, just seemed like since they were either not going to make a buck, or since it was an unsolicited phone call from someone they didn't know, they didn't even want to waste their time talking to me. I got the feeling from some that they may have thought I was a BATF agent fishing for information to use against them.
Others "hinted" that the BATF has been "around" checking their records, more than they used to be. Others gave me the impression that they were afraid they were going to be closed down before long.
Bottom line is that I did not get a straight answer from anybody. I don't know if it was the fact that I was just a "Joe blow" off the street, with no credentials, or that the BATF has them all running so scared that they are afraid to even TALK about it.
This is just my personal opinion, but after doing this, I get the feeling that there IS a problem here also.
Thats when we found ourselves at "step two" and couldn't see how this could be prevented. We are a normal everyday business with nothing criminal going on...we couldn't do any better than we have been. If this is not good enough...then the gun business is on its way out (along with the right to buy a gun.) I was SO MAD!!! I typed the message that started this discussion and handed it out to some of the customers.
I have e-mailed my message to just about EVERYONE....with no response from anyone. I hope to get the attention of someone more important than I am...then maybe someone will listen to them. I will continue to tell anyone who will listen, or read, this horrible agenda of the ATF.
You need to take your story to the folks at JPFO
http://www.jpfo.org/
They are looking for people like you that are being picked on by JACK BOOTED THUGS from the BATFE.
Good luck[8D]
A well armed society is the best form of homeland security.
Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6.
A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.
Make yourselves sheep, and the wolves will eat you.
NRA write your Rep. will save a stamp
http://www.capwiz.com/nra/home/
GOA
http://www.gunowners.org/activism.htm
LF
You need to take your story to the folks at JPFO
http://www.jpfo.org/
They are looking for people like you that are being picked on by JACK BOOTED THUGS from the BATFE.
Good luck[8D]
A well armed society is the best form of homeland security.
Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6.
A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.
Make yourselves sheep, and the wolves will eat you.
NRA write your Rep. will save a stamp
http://www.capwiz.com/nra/home/
GOA
http://www.gunowners.org/activism.htm
I'll second this advice, the JPFO is very aggressive in their defense of our gun right and especially those at the top of the chain, the manufacturers and dealers. I strongly recommend you take shootsright's advice and contact them. You sound as thoough you have nearly reached desperation, I guess the BATFE has never heard that 'desperate people do desperate things'. I wouldn't want to be in a BATFE uniform (outfit) if I was on this crusade of theirs. No way, sooner or later one of those desperate people is going to do something desperate and considering they own gun shops..., you do the math.
I feel for you and wish there were more that we here could do, other than floating the word around seeing if anyone 'bigger' than we are bites. If you seriously want to be protected, you need to contact the gun rights org's, they will watch your back and AUDIT the BATFE if they get out of line. The BATFE knows that they are underclassmen to groups like the NRA and others. Their worst nightmare is for one of the big 'guns' to come after them instead of the other way around. Turning the tables on an alphabet org. is always dangerous so just get the pro's in your corner. Call and write today! I also told you of many lawyers that will take a case like this pro bono. You really need to start looking for one. They do it for the pleasure of being a pain in the * for the BATFE. If I were an actual attorney, I play one on television, (joke) I'd be doing it too. By the way I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night...just in case anyone was wondering!(again, just a little humor to lighten an otherwise gloomy topic)
Good luck and you should have a pre-prepared email and post ready in case they do pull it off, this way we will all know and may be able to do something or at least bug the snit out of the BATFE for 'freedom of information' as we are entitled.
It was so great to see how someone getting pushed around by the ATF had gotten so much anger from one group. This man was accused of having a full auto when it was a broken gun...some can be "full auto" if things wear down just right. This man had spent $30,000.00 defending himself only to have the charges dropped in the end.
Something like that has happened to my father. He was accused in the 80's of making "straw man" purchases. He had gone through a GIANT horrible spell fighting the charges and in the end spent $360,000.00 only to have the charges dropped in the end. I wish it were possible to sue the ATF for destroying his life for 10 whole years. They should at least have to pay him back the money he spent fighting them.
The three strikes policy is a bit different....this could close stores using perfectly legal ways in a very unfair manner. I think the power of the ATF should be pulled tight and limit their ability to govern themselves stopped. Sending out memos and newletters that change the way we handle gun sales is MAKING GUN LAWS themselves.
If they sent out a newsletter that said "as of January 4th 2006 anyone who buys two long guns requires a multiple purchase form to be filled out by the seller" We would just have to do it. Nothing stops them from being able to run this any way they see fit. If we can stop them we may have a chance...but if not guns will go away.
I am not only concerned for our store...the others need this to be stopped. All stores and FFL holders need this to be stopped.
This type of action by law enforcement is the "hidden power" or "unoffical punishment" that all law enforcement has available to them if they are unethical enough to use it. Say even a street cop stops you for no good reason, you mouth off and make him/her mad so they arrest you on a very, very weak charge, haul you off to jail, make you post bond and appear in court where the judge dismisses the case. Maybe the judge dismisses the case because he/she sees it is a weak/unjust case or maybe because the officer doesn't even show up for court. So yeah, you get off but you have suffer already with having to endure the legal process so far, probably had to take off work, had to hire an attorney just to be safe, etc.
What I'm getting at is that any unethical law enforcement agency knows how to administer punishment, maybe to the point of almost destroying the innocent individual, if they are unethical enough to actually do it. I don't think many people know this or think about this.
The ATF seems to be bad in everyones eyes...not one person is ever thankful we have this group. How do you stop them? Why is everyone letting them be this way?
That is a very good question to which I have no good answer.
They will not and can not be stopped by conventional means.All your letters,e-mails,and begging of congressmen mean nothing at all.
quote:Why is everyone letting them be this way?
They are that way because people like me are called radical..extremist..condemmed by 'decent people'...
Because I defend the Second Amendment EXACTLY AS WRITTEN..and not the rationalized away "Gun Rights " we have today.
They are that way because most gun people believe in gun control, in other words.....
""We found that the ATF's inspection program is not fully effective
for ensuring that FFLs comply with federal firearms laws because
inspections are infrequent and of inconsistent quality, and follow-up
inspections and adverse actions have been sporadic. The ATF concurred
with most of our recommendations and has begun to implement changes
to improve the consistency with which it conducts follow-up inspections and takes adverse actions.""
http://www.usdoj.gov/oig/reports/ATF/e0405/scope.htm
""Purpose
The Office of the Inspector General (OIG) conducted this review to assess the effectiveness of the ATF's program for inspecting FFLs and to examine how this program assists in enforcing federal firearms laws.""
http://www.gao.gov/htext/d031147t.html
""For example, we purchased firearms from licensed
firearms dealers using counterfeit driver's licenses. The majority of
firearms dealers we contacted complied with the then-existing federal
and state law governing such purchases, including instant background
checks required by the Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act of
1993.[Footnote 2] However, the instant background check only discloses whether the prospective purchaser is a person whose possession of a firearm would be unlawful. Consequently, if the prospective purchaser is using a fictitious identity, as our investigators did, an instant background check is not effective.""
Firearms Purchased from Federal Firearms Licensees Using Bogus
Identification:
From October 2000 through February 2001, we used counterfeit driver's
licenses with fictitious identifiers to purchase firearms from federal firearm licensees in five states--Virginia, West Virginia, Montana, New Mexico, and Arizona. The weapons purchased included (1) a 9mm stainless semiautomatic pistol, (2) a .380 semiautomatic pistol, (3) a 7.62mm Russian-manufactured rifle, (4) a .22 caliber semiautomatic rifle, (5) a 9mm semiautomatic pistol, and (6) a .25 caliber semiautomatic pistol.
The five states in which we purchased firearms conformed to the Brady
Handgun Violence Prevention Act of 1993[Footnote 9] by requiring
instant background checks. For the most part, the federal firearm
licensees we contacted adhered to then-existing federal and state laws regarding such purchases, including the instant background checks. Because we used counterfeit driver's licenses and fictitious identities there was no negative information in the system about the names we created.[Footnote 10]
Purchase of Firearms Using a Counterfeit Federal Firearms License:
In January 2002, we purchased a firearm from a licensed federal
firearms dealer using a counterfeit federal firearms license. We
established a fictitious sporting goods company in Virginia by using a legitimate federal firearms license and altering it to insert the name and address of our fictitious business. We then contacted a legitimate federal firearms dealer in Texas, posing as an individual wanting to purchase a .32 caliber semiautomatic pistol and have it shipped to Virginia. When the dealer stated that he could only mail the pistol to another federal firearms licensee, another investigator called the dealer, represented himself to be a licensed federal firearms dealer, and faxed a copy of a counterfeit license. The Texas dealer accepted the license and mailed the pistol. We also reported on two instances in which individuals purchased firearms using counterfeit or altered federal firearms licenses.[Footnote 11]
How many people knew about that? They ADMIT their own system is easily scammed by criminals. Look at how many FFL's the Govt. tricked into illegally selling firearms.
www.nafr.org
Member Benefits:
http://www.nafr.org/membership/mem_ben.cfm
Hell Yeah.
Just about every day I have reason to stop a sale because people try to get a gun when they can't buy one. If a person wants a gun they will find a way to get it.....the FFL holder is on the "good guy" side of this. We are the ones that say "No, we can't do things this way...you have to fill out the paper...not your friend." I have sent many away for not having the proper ID (you JUST TRY and get someone speaking only Spanish to bring three consecutive months utility bills with their name on it showing residence)
Its hard enough without the ATF "improving things" I would love it if all ATF agents had to do a bit of retail sales time before they got their badges. If each one of them had about two months experience actually DOING the job they are auditing they would be a bit kinder to the ones they are about to slam. They would then realize how much it really takes to be behind that counter and that the criminals aren't always trying to buy the guns from stores BUT there are mistakes made.
You still miss the point. The idea of the batf is NOT to 'help you out' in your business....
The Idea is to DRIVE you out of business.
These enforcers are merely carrying out the wishes of the Elite...and all those warm fuzzy "President Bush is on our side" deluded people in the world cannot change the facts.
Why aren't they in "hot water" instead of just meandering around and dumping their power whenever they feel like it (like a giant bird in the sky.) I have had my windshield pooped on twice now...and they are hovering above again!
The batf could not exist for ONE MOMENT if the gun owners of this country rose up and DEMANDED the end of the agency.
Surely you have read some of the arguments on this forum..between those INSISTING that the Second Amendment is a RIGHT...and those perfectly willing to compromise that right away to forstall some scary "Total Gun Ban"...not realizing that they play right into the hands of those disarming us ? WHY would you expect the batf to be in trouble with those kinds of people...?
As long as they can still crawl on their bellies enough to get some of the weaponry they want..there will NEVER be enough of an outcry to make a difference...
Currently y'all are required to do more for the Govt. than the average WG or GS Civil Servant for no money at all from Uncle Sam. As a Civil Servant you would lose responsibility and accountability.
Win win for everyone!
I don't know if I am kidding or not. ??????
I am still VERY worried about the store....all stores really. If we have no more gun stores to go to how will we go on? Its like being part of some horrible unstoppable events. We need more say so in our future. I think if the ATF has it their way we will all be lined up dropping our guns into a melting pot.
Take a look at whats going down in NY State
with a Repubican Gov.. Six new bills out of
the house headed for the sen. at the state
leavel and the Gov will sign them.
N.Y. Anti-Gun Package
Headed to State Senate
NEW YORKERS URGED TO TAKE ACTION . . . The New York State Assembly passed a package of anti-gun bills last week that would not only negatively impact law-abiding firearms retailers, but also shooters and hunters statewide. The package, which includes bills A 9280, A 2466A, A 2837, A 4471A, A 2302 and A 673A, will next head to the State Senate.
A 9280 would impose many new unnecessary restrictions and regulations on law-abiding retailers, while the other bills would create new restrictions not only affecting retailers, but all of the state's law-abiding gun owners. These measures include a ban on the sale and possession of 50-caliber firearms, outlawing certain types of ammunition, an expansion to the state's ban on so-called "assault weapons" and making new crimes for "negligent storage" of firearms.
New Yorkers should not waste any time in contacting their state senators, urging them to oppose these anti-gun measures. In addition to contacting their legislators, New York's firearms retailers are encouraged to join the newly formed New York State Association of Firearms Retailers by contacting Greg Costa at 518-584-5098 or Bettyjane Swann at 203-426-1320.
I want no part of that kind of country. I want the strong...able to think for themselves...and wide awake/aware of what we need and don't need people. This is getting crazy. If they keep this up we will all be in matching uniforms, eating the food they have deamed "good for us." We will have to take a little pill before getting on the bus that takes us to our job that they have decided we get to do....because without the pill...we may use our sporks to hurt ourselves or others at snack time.
Perhaps you will not be so strong in your criticism of those of us that have been in this for 40 years...watching the greatest country on earth being destroyed from within.
The measures you talk about have been tried...often. There is no stopping the juggernaut with your appeals to politicians/alphabet agencies...nor to ordinary people.
Not EVEN appeals to gun owners, you see...because the majority of gun owners SUPPORT gun control...finally, I had to ask myself.."Self...why should I support people that call themselves gun-owners..yet they support gun laws..???? "
Sounds like yet another defination of INSANITY...
The first ten brain cells are busy with basic functions...like breathing, reflexes, and such....BUT if you have that 11th brain cell!!! You then are able to see that people who are criminals don't follow the law and the laws that get passed are only limiting the rights of law abiding citizens.
I think if you have about 15 brain cells you become aware that guns are a basic right that this country was founded on and the taking of guns from the people would be like painting over great art....and the little restrictions some see as "good for everyone" is as silly as putting boxers on Michelangelo's David.
I have had many people ask...."would you sell a gun to anyone?" I simply answer..."if they fill that form out and the background check says I can." BUT if you really sit down with our constitution...it does not say anything about deserving to own a gun. The amendments and crazy thigs added to "protect" us have gotten out of control.
I am all for burning everything after the first draft.
Some of the most bitter arguments on these forums...and in real life..center around so-called "Pro-Gun" people defending waiting periods/back ground checks..or some other freedom destroying law put forth by the Elites.
The basic idea..that we punish those ABUSING firearms..always seems foreign to these types of people.
The point I have been making...How in hell can we castigate the Shumers/Fiendsteins/Kennedys..avowed Socialists all...and allow rattlesnakes to bed down right NEXT to us ?
Began to grasp why I believe that it's OVER....That freedom is a thing of the past..and the only hope is for decent people to withdraw ?
From reading some of your other posts..(Getting to shoes,ect..) I expect it would take more then a day or two to round up your arms..[:D]
"Dropping out" is best done in your own neighborhood...you know the area, you have an idea whom to trust..and not...
Understand, please...I wish you no ill will. You are in a profession that is literally "under the gun"..slated to be destroyed by the very government you pay huge sums of money to protect the heart and soul of America...the Gun shops and Constitution of America.
Back in the days before 'yellow sheets'...gun shop owners were my dearest friends..many of them.
Also, if you sell guns and you end up with a "burn"....that is something you get to look at for a VERY long time. For example: you buy a Springfield micro for $650 and they drop the price a full $100 the next week. I love that gun, but not $100 over wholesale kind of "love."
Good Luck,
Wolf
ALERT FROM JEWS FOR THE PRESERVATION OF FIREARMS OWNERSHIP
America's Aggressive Civil Rights Organization
January 27, 2006
JPFO ALERT: HAVE YOU BEEN CONTACTED BY THE BATFE?
Congress will do nothing to stop BATFE abuses of gun owners
unless Congress hears from us loud and clear. Courts won't
protect our rights until they realize that our rights are
being violated. Our publicizing the Glover matter --
including the video of the botched BATFE "test" of the
alleged "machine gun" -- has already sent shockwaves through
BATFE. That was just one example. Imagine the effects
when we can report dozens, even hundreds of examples of
BATFE harassment, hostility, heavy-handedness, and
oppressive conduct!
As part of our Boot the BATFE campaign, we are asking
firearms owners and dealers to help us collect reports of
BATFE hostility, harassment and oppressive conduct. We
need to get solid information, real case examples, and
estimated counts of BATFE actions against us. Put on your
boots, and help us get this job done.
If you have ever been contacted by the BATFE, please take a
few minutes to complete the report form, available at
www.jpfo.org/batfeform.htm . And please, do so without
delay. Our campaign can succeed only if we can gather this
information rapidly. Speed builds momentum. Momentum
causes change. And serious change is what we need in order
to block BATFE from abusing gun owners. At the very least,
the questionnaire will help eliminate the all-to-common
dismissal of gun owners as "not knowing what they're
talking about."
Don't forget that we have a variety of other Boot Tools to
help our campaign and spread the word. Visit our online
store at www.jpfo.org/store.htm for stickers, t-shirts,
pins, and of course the tape that started it all: _BATFE
Fails the Test_ ( http://www.jpfo.org/batfevideo.htm ).
The only thing necessary for the triumph of nasty
government agencies is for citizens to do nothing. We have
a Constitutional right to voice our grievances against
overstepping agencies. Please report your BATFE incident
(big or small) to us right away.
- The Liberty Crew
P.S. Naturally, some people may worry about providing this
information to us for our survey of BATFE incidents. There
is no reason for you to worry. We pledge to maintain the
information in strict confidence. We will not voluntarily
disclose this information to any government agency, nor to
any outside business, organization or individual, without
first asking for your written permission.
We do need truthful information, however, to be sure that
our survey will be accurate. That is why we need your real
name and location. We need your contact phone or e-mail
also so that we can verify the report came from you, and so
we can contact you if we need to ask permission to use the
information.
ALERT FROM JEWS FOR THE PRESERVATION OF FIREARMS OWNERSHIP
America's Aggressive Civil Rights Organization
January 27, 2006
JPFO ALERT: HAVE YOU BEEN CONTACTED BY THE BATFE?
Congress will do nothing to stop BATFE abuses of gun owners
unless Congress hears from us loud and clear. Courts won't
protect our rights until they realize that our rights are
being violated. Our publicizing the Glover matter --
including the video of the botched BATFE "test" of the
alleged "machine gun" -- has already sent shockwaves through
BATFE. That was just one example. Imagine the effects
when we can report dozens, even hundreds of examples of
BATFE harassment, hostility, heavy-handedness, and
oppressive conduct!
As part of our Boot the BATFE campaign, we are asking
firearms owners and dealers to help us collect reports of
BATFE hostility, harassment and oppressive conduct. We
need to get solid information, real case examples, and
estimated counts of BATFE actions against us. Put on your
boots, and help us get this job done.
If you have ever been contacted by the BATFE, please take a
few minutes to complete the report form, available at
www.jpfo.org/batfeform.htm . And please, do so without
delay. Our campaign can succeed only if we can gather this
information rapidly. Speed builds momentum. Momentum
causes change. And serious change is what we need in order
to block BATFE from abusing gun owners. At the very least,
the questionnaire will help eliminate the all-to-common
dismissal of gun owners as "not knowing what they're
talking about."
Don't forget that we have a variety of other Boot Tools to
help our campaign and spread the word. Visit our online
store at www.jpfo.org/store.htm for stickers, t-shirts,
pins, and of course the tape that started it all: _BATFE
Fails the Test_ ( http://www.jpfo.org/batfevideo.htm ).
The only thing necessary for the triumph of nasty
government agencies is for citizens to do nothing. We have
a Constitutional right to voice our grievances against
overstepping agencies. Please report your BATFE incident
(big or small) to us right away.
- The Liberty Crew
P.S. Naturally, some people may worry about providing this
information to us for our survey of BATFE incidents. There
is no reason for you to worry. We pledge to maintain the
information in strict confidence. We will not voluntarily
disclose this information to any government agency, nor to
any outside business, organization or individual, without
first asking for your written permission.
We do need truthful information, however, to be sure that
our survey will be accurate. That is why we need your real
name and location. We need your contact phone or e-mail
also so that we can verify the report came from you, and so
we can contact you if we need to ask permission to use the
information.