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I'm still trying to understand what we are arguing about. I'm not taking sides, just trying to make peace. I feel as Americans, we have enough enemies to be fighting amongst each other.
We can all agree that:
A. We love our country and would die to defend it.
B. The government is out of control and is overstepping it's boundaries.
C. At the present rate, the government is heading toward total control.
D. We want the government to obey the Constitution as it is written.
quote:Originally posted by Oklahoma223
I'm still trying to understand what we are arguing about. I'm not taking sides, just trying to make peace. I feel as Americans, we have enough enemies to be fighting amongst each other.
We can all agree that:
A. We love our country and would die to defend it.
B. The government is out of control and is overstepping it's boundaries.
C. At the present rate, the government is heading toward total control.
D. We want the government to obey the Constitution as it is written.
E. We want to be free people in a free country.
The core of the disagreement I will call it not a argument is !
( Who deserves the Constitution ? )
A chosen few as in what highball says .
Or do we all deserve the Constitution as I say .
There are other smaller parts to the disagreement but this is the core of it .
quote:Originally posted by Oklahoma223
I'm still trying to understand what we are arguing about. I'm not taking sides, just trying to make peace. I feel as Americans, we have enough enemies to be fighting amongst each other.
We can all agree that:
A. We love our country and would die to defend it.
B. The government is out of control and is overstepping it's boundaries.
C. At the present rate, the government is heading toward total control.
D. We want the government to obey the Constitution as it is written.
E. We want to be free people in a free country.
i have to add one oklahoma
we want our soldiers to uphold and defend this country first, against enemys foreign and domestic...before we worry about the freedom of foreign nations..and that would mean expulsion by force if necessary ,the politicians and bankers who disregard the constitution...
quote:Originally posted by select-fire
quote:Originally posted by Highball
quote:I am opposed to fighting in the streets, I have seen that in other countries and those of you that want that don't know what you are asking for. No not here. I believe that we need to fight in a nonviolent manner until we have no other option but to use violence,
You repeat what others...non-Constitutional others...keep mouthing.
NOBODY that is sane wishes for 'fighting in the streets'. But By God I will not sit idly by while an elite, corrupted gang of thugs tighten their grip on the throats of Americans till they throttle the life out of them.The day they send the troops into the streets to take by force what they have been stealing by guile is the day THEY declared war...NOT US !!
Listening to duce and ice will PERMANTELY screw up your mind. NONE of us demanding a return to Constitutional government is trying to take ANY freedom away from ANYBODY.
Except, of the course, their freedom to have a totally free hand to finish the takeover of America BY Socialism/Fascism.
GRANTED.if THAT is your agenda.we are INDEED `hateful' creatures.
Sound like a terroristic threat you made against the U.S.A.
Absurd! Sounds like a man who knows what his forefathers had to say about freedom.
quote:Originally posted by select-fire
quote:Originally posted by Highball
The 'ices' of the country COULD be performing a valuable service...were they so inclined.
"This is where the Constitution was abridged...HERE is how to get it back on track".
Oddly enough, that does not seem to be his message at all. No, he prefers to attempt to tear down the few men who find the present situation intolerable and criminal.
We look around at the devastation wrought by the fascists/communists , elected by apathetic, ignorant, uncaring masses and grow sick to heart.
He merely attacks those of us with a dream...the dream of the Founders.
It does not MATTER that that dream was soiled, nearly in the instance of birth...the fact remains, it brought the greatest freedom to the greatest number of people ever in History !!
The Constitution did not soil ITSELF.rotten corrupt MEN soiled it. Sometime read up on George Washington...you will get an education.PROVIDED you read something besides government propaganda.
The force of the gutted remains, here today, STILL holds the elites and the power-mad in (ever loosening) chains...or the purging fields would long ago have visited America,
The force of the Constitution has held those killing fields to isolated incidents.Waco, Ruby Ridge, Kent State.but those chains on the power-mad are falling away before our very eyes.
There are hard times coming. People will GET THEIR CHOICE;
Follow the Beast;
Follow the Constitution.
You DON'T GET TO DO BOTH.it is an utter impossibility.
Your statements against the USA are insulting against any GI that has ever and is continueing to defend this great nation and everything it stands for.
Speak for yourself Select. HB has it right...and I'm one of those GI's who has fought for our freedoms.
quote:Originally posted by Duce1
quote:Originally posted by Oklahoma223
I'm still trying to understand what we are arguing about. I'm not taking sides, just trying to make peace. I feel as Americans, we have enough enemies to be fighting amongst each other.
We can all agree that:
A. We love our country and would die to defend it.
B. The government is out of control and is overstepping it's boundaries.
C. At the present rate, the government is heading toward total control.
D. We want the government to obey the Constitution as it is written.
E. We want to be free people in a free country.
The core of the disagreement I will call it not a argument is !
( Who deserves the Constitution ? )
A chosen few as in what highball says .
Or do we all deserve the Constitution as I say .
There are other smaller parts to the disagreement but this is the core of it .
Duce:
A guy as tacticool as you should understand the intent of a Constitutional Stance.
The Constitution is for all of us, but many in this country and on this forum have not internalized what true freedom, individual liberty, and, yes an 'unfringable' right means.
The Constitution lives on life support only today because many believe that its words are merely a guide that can be twisted when it benefits 'the people'.
Obvious dangers have been shown to be that the good of the people in one man's eye is different in another.
Many argue that it is not Unconstitutional to limit firearm ownership to ex-offenders, and many argue that the existing practical ban on full-auto weapons is not Unconstitutional. A simple reading puts the lie to both concepts.
Allowing a government to exceed its charter is excusable when there is no reasonable option. Supporting that excess is not excusable, and it is those supporters who deserve the Constitution they have created, even though it is not the Constitution that is written.
Freedom and a submissive populace cannot co-exist.
quote:Originally posted by select-fire
quote:Originally posted by Highball
quote:I am opposed to fighting in the streets, I have seen that in other countries and those of you that want that don't know what you are asking for. No not here. I believe that we need to fight in a nonviolent manner until we have no other option but to use violence,
You repeat what others...non-Constitutional others...keep mouthing.
NOBODY that is sane wishes for 'fighting in the streets'. But By God I will not sit idly by while an elite, corrupted gang of thugs tighten their grip on the throats of Americans till they throttle the life out of them.The day they send the troops into the streets to take by force what they have been stealing by guile is the day THEY declared war...NOT US !!
Listening to duce and ice will PERMANTELY screw up your mind. NONE of us demanding a return to Constitutional government is trying to take ANY freedom away from ANYBODY.
Except, of the course, their freedom to have a totally free hand to finish the takeover of America BY Socialism/Fascism.
GRANTED.if THAT is your agenda.we are INDEED `hateful' creatures.
Sound like a terroristic threat you made against the U.S.A.
Really?
Here, select, check this out; a few words of wisdom from the past:
When, in the course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bonds which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the laws of nature and of nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. That to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. That whenever any form of government becomes destructive to these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shown that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such government, and to provide new guards for their future security. --Such has been the patient sufferance of these colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former systems of government.
Here, select, check this out; a few words of wisdom from the past:[/blue]
When, in the course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bonds which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the laws of nature and of nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. That to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. That whenever any form of government becomes destructive to these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shown that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such government, and to provide new guards for their future security. --Such has been the patient sufferance of these colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former systems of government.
quote:Originally posted by wsfiredude
quote:Originally posted by select-fire
quote:Originally posted by Highball
quote:I am opposed to fighting in the streets, I have seen that in other countries and those of you that want that don't know what you are asking for. No not here. I believe that we need to fight in a nonviolent manner until we have no other option but to use violence,
You repeat what others...non-Constitutional others...keep mouthing.
NOBODY that is sane wishes for 'fighting in the streets'. But By God I will not sit idly by while an elite, corrupted gang of thugs tighten their grip on the throats of Americans till they throttle the life out of them.The day they send the troops into the streets to take by force what they have been stealing by guile is the day THEY declared war...NOT US !!
Listening to duce and ice will PERMANTELY screw up your mind. NONE of us demanding a return to Constitutional government is trying to take ANY freedom away from ANYBODY.
Except, of the course, their freedom to have a totally free hand to finish the takeover of America BY Socialism/Fascism.
GRANTED.if THAT is your agenda.we are INDEED `hateful' creatures.
Sound like a terroristic threat you made against the U.S.A.
Really?
Here, select, check this out; a few words of wisdom from the past:
When, in the course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bonds which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the laws of nature and of nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. That to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. That whenever any form of government becomes destructive to these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shown that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such government, and to provide new guards for their future security. --Such has been the patient sufferance of these colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former systems of government.
Very good grasshopper. Did you notice that safety and happiness clause in there? Govt. looking after y'all. Meaning all your garbage over in gun rights is taken care of. Finally.. Finally someone posted this. Federal govt. does have the right to set law. Damn I knew someone would get around to posting it sometime. BTW that is the Declaration of Independance the 13 states declared over England. That change of govt you highlighted was referring to them. Here is the whole thing:
Declaration of Independence
Here is the complete text of the Declaration of Independence.
The original spelling and capitalization have been retained.
(Adopted by Congress on July 4, 1776)
The Unanimous Declaration
of the Thirteen United States of America
Teachers & Students: Free Downloads of Rare Scenes Of Early America's People, Places & Events!
When, in the course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bonds which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the laws of nature and of nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. That to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. That whenever any form of government becomes destructive to these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shown that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such government, and to provide new guards for their future security. --Such has been the patient sufferance of these colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former systems of government. The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute tyranny over these states. To prove this, let facts be submitted to a candid world.
He has refused his assent to laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public good.
He has forbidden his governors to pass laws of immediate and pressing importance, unless suspended in their operation till his assent should be obtained; and when so suspended, he has utterly neglected to attend to them.
He has refused to pass other laws for the accommodation of large districts of people, unless those people would relinquish the right of representation in the legislature, a right inestimable to them and formidable to tyrants only.
He has called together legislative bodies at places unusual, uncomfortable, and distant from the depository of their public records, for the sole purpose of fatiguing them into compliance with his measures.
He has dissolved representative houses repeatedly, for opposing with manly firmness his invasions on the rights of the people.
He has refused for a long time, after such dissolutions, to cause others to be elected; whereby the legislative powers, incapable of annihilation, have returned to the people at large for their exercise; the state remaining in the meantime exposed to all the dangers of invasion from without, and convulsions within.
He has endeavored to prevent the population of these states; for that purpose obstructing the laws for naturalization of foreigners; refusing to pass others to encourage their migration hither, and raising the conditions of new appropriations of lands.
He has obstructed the administration of justice, by refusing his assent to laws for establishing judiciary powers.
He has made judges dependent on his will alone, for the tenure of their offices, and the amount and payment of their salaries.
He has erected a multitude of new offices, and sent hither swarms of officers to harass our people, and eat out their substance.
He has kept among us, in times of peace, standing armies without the consent of our legislature.
He has affected to render the military independent of and superior to civil power.
He has combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our constitution, and unacknowledged by our laws; giving his assent to their acts of pretended legislation:
For quartering large bodies of armed troops among us:
For protecting them, by mock trial, from punishment for any murders which they should commit on the inhabitants of these states:
For cutting off our trade with all parts of the world:
For imposing taxes on us without our consent:
For depriving us in many cases, of the benefits of trial by jury:
For transporting us beyond seas to be tried for pretended offenses:
For abolishing the free system of English laws in a neighboring province, establishing therein an arbitrary government, and enlarging its boundaries so as to render it at once an example and fit instrument for introducing the same absolute rule in these colonies:
For taking away our charters, abolishing our most valuable laws, and altering fundamentally the forms of our governments:
For suspending our own legislatures, and declaring themselves invested with power to legislate for us in all cases whatsoever.
He has abdicated government here, by declaring us out of his protection and waging war against us.
He has plundered our seas, ravaged our coasts, burned our towns, and destroyed the lives of our people.
He is at this time transporting large armies of foreign mercenaries to complete the works of death, desolation and tyranny, already begun with circumstances of cruelty and perfidy scarcely paralleled in the most barbarous ages, and totally unworthy the head of a civilized nation.
He has constrained our fellow citizens taken captive on the high seas to bear arms against their country, to become the executioners of their friends and brethren, or to fall themselves by their hands.
He has excited domestic insurrections amongst us, and has endeavored to bring on the inhabitants of our frontiers, the merciless Indian savages, whose known rule of warfare, is undistinguished destruction of all ages, sexes and conditions.
In every stage of these oppressions we have petitioned for redress in the most humble terms: our repeated petitions have been answered only by repeated injury. A prince, whose character is thus marked by every act which may define a tyrant, is unfit to be the ruler of a free people.
Nor have we been wanting in attention to our British brethren. We have warned them from time to time of attempts by their legislature to extend an unwarrantable jurisdiction over us. We have reminded them of the circumstances of our emigration and settlement here. We have appealed to their native justice and magnanimity, and we have conjured them by the ties of our common kindred to disavow these usurpations, which, would inevitably interrupt our connections and correspondence. They too have been deaf to the voice of justice and of consanguinity. We must, therefore, acquiesce in the necessity, which denounces our separation, and hold them, as we hold the rest of mankind, enemies in war, in peace friends.
We, therefore, the representatives of the United States of America, in General Congress, assembled, appealing to the Supreme Judge of the world for the rectitude of our intentions, do, in the name, and by the authority of the good people of these colonies, solemnly publish and declare, that these united colonies are, and of right ought to be free and independent states; that they are absolved from all allegiance to the British Crown, and that all political connection between them and the state of Great Britain, is and ought to be totally dissolved; and that as free and independent states, they have full power to levy war, conclude peace, contract alliances, establish commerce, and to do all other acts and things which independent states may of right do. And for the support of this declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honor.
New Hampshire: Josiah Bartlett, William Whipple, Matthew Thornton
Massachusetts: John Hancock, Samual Adams, John Adams, Robert Treat Paine, Elbridge Gerry
Rhode Island: Stephen Hopkins, William Ellery
Connecticut: Roger Sherman, Samuel Huntington, William Williams, Oliver Wolcott
New York: William Floyd, Philip Livingston, Francis Lewis, Lewis Morris
New Jersey: Richard Stockton, John Witherspoon, Francis Hopkinson, John Hart, Abraham Clark
Pennsylvania: Robert Morris, Benjamin Rush, Benjamin Franklin, John Morton, George Clymer, James Smith, George Taylor, James Wilson, George Ross
Delaware: Caesar Rodney, George Read, Thomas McKean
Maryland: Samuel Chase, William Paca, Thomas Stone, Charles Carroll of Carrollton
Virginia: George Wythe, Richard Henry Lee, Thomas Jefferson, Benjamin Harrison, Thomas Nelson, Jr., Francis Lightfoot Lee, Carter Braxton
North Carolina: William Hooper, Joseph Hewes, John Penn
South Carolina: Edward Rutledge, Thomas Heyward, Jr., Thomas Lynch, Jr., Arthur Middleton
Georgia: Button Gwinnett, Lyman Hall, George Walton
quote:Originally posted by select-fire
quote:Originally posted by wsfiredude
quote:Originally posted by select-fire
quote:Originally posted by Highball
quote:I am opposed to fighting in the streets, I have seen that in other countries and those of you that want that don't know what you are asking for. No not here. I believe that we need to fight in a nonviolent manner until we have no other option but to use violence,
You repeat what others...non-Constitutional others...keep mouthing.
NOBODY that is sane wishes for 'fighting in the streets'. But By God I will not sit idly by while an elite, corrupted gang of thugs tighten their grip on the throats of Americans till they throttle the life out of them.The day they send the troops into the streets to take by force what they have been stealing by guile is the day THEY declared war...NOT US !!
Listening to duce and ice will PERMANTELY screw up your mind. NONE of us demanding a return to Constitutional government is trying to take ANY freedom away from ANYBODY.
Except, of the course, their freedom to have a totally free hand to finish the takeover of America BY Socialism/Fascism.
GRANTED.if THAT is your agenda.we are INDEED `hateful' creatures.
Sound like a terroristic threat you made against the U.S.A.
Really?
Here, select, check this out; a few words of wisdom from the past:
When, in the course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bonds which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the laws of nature and of nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. That to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. That whenever any form of government becomes destructive to these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shown that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such government, and to provide new guards for their future security. --Such has been the patient sufferance of these colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former systems of government.
Very good grasshopper. Did you notice that safety and happiness clause in there? Govt. looking after y'all. Meaning all your garbage over in gun rights is taken care of. Finally.. Finally someone posted this. Federal govt. does have the right to set law. Damn I knew someone would get around to posting it sometime. BTW that is the Declaration of Independance the 13 states declared over England. That change of govt you highlighted was referring to them. Here is the whole thing:
Declaration of Independence
Here is the complete text of the Declaration of Independence.
The original spelling and capitalization have been retained.
(Adopted by Congress on July 4, 1776)
The Unanimous Declaration
of the Thirteen United States of America
Teachers & Students: Free Downloads of Rare Scenes Of Early America's People, Places & Events!
When, in the course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bonds which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the laws of nature and of nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. That to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. That whenever any form of government becomes destructive to these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shown that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such government, and to provide new guards for their future security. --Such has been the patient sufferance of these colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former systems of government. The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute tyranny over these states. To prove this, let facts be submitted to a candid world.
He has refused his assent to laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public good.
He has forbidden his governors to pass laws of immediate and pressing importance, unless suspended in their operation till his assent should be obtained; and when so suspended, he has utterly neglected to attend to them.
He has refused to pass other laws for the accommodation of large districts of people, unless those people would relinquish the right of representation in the legislature, a right inestimable to them and formidable to tyrants only.
He has called together legislative bodies at places unusual, uncomfortable, and distant from the depository of their public records, for the sole purpose of fatiguing them into compliance with his measures.
He has dissolved representative houses repeatedly, for opposing with manly firmness his invasions on the rights of the people.
He has refused for a long time, after such dissolutions, to cause others to be elected; whereby the legislative powers, incapable of annihilation, have returned to the people at large for their exercise; the state remaining in the meantime exposed to all the dangers of invasion from without, and convulsions within.
He has endeavored to prevent the population of these states; for that purpose obstructing the laws for naturalization of foreigners; refusing to pass others to encourage their migration hither, and raising the conditions of new appropriations of lands.
He has obstructed the administration of justice, by refusing his assent to laws for establishing judiciary powers.
He has made judges dependent on his will alone, for the tenure of their offices, and the amount and payment of their salaries.
He has erected a multitude of new offices, and sent hither swarms of officers to harass our people, and eat out their substance.
He has kept among us, in times of peace, standing armies without the consent of our legislature.
He has affected to render the military independent of and superior to civil power.
He has combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our constitution, and unacknowledged by our laws; giving his assent to their acts of pretended legislation:
For quartering large bodies of armed troops among us:
For protecting them, by mock trial, from punishment for any murders which they should commit on the inhabitants of these states:
For cutting off our trade with all parts of the world:
For imposing taxes on us without our consent:
For depriving us in many cases, of the benefits of trial by jury:
For transporting us beyond seas to be tried for pretended offenses:
For abolishing the free system of English laws in a neighboring province, establishing therein an arbitrary government, and enlarging its boundaries so as to render it at once an example and fit instrument for introducing the same absolute rule in these colonies:
For taking away our charters, abolishing our most valuable laws, and altering fundamentally the forms of our governments:
For suspending our own legislatures, and declaring themselves invested with power to legislate for us in all cases whatsoever.
He has abdicated government here, by declaring us out of his protection and waging war against us.
He has plundered our seas, ravaged our coasts, burned our towns, and destroyed the lives of our people.
He is at this time transporting large armies of foreign mercenaries to complete the works of death, desolation and tyranny, already begun with circumstances of cruelty and perfidy scarcely paralleled in the most barbarous ages, and totally unworthy the head of a civilized nation.
He has constrained our fellow citizens taken captive on the high seas to bear arms against their country, to become the executioners of their friends and brethren, or to fall themselves by their hands.
He has excited domestic insurrections amongst us, and has endeavored to bring on the inhabitants of our frontiers, the merciless Indian savages, whose known rule of warfare, is undistinguished destruction of all ages, sexes and conditions.
In every stage of these oppressions we have petitioned for redress in the most humble terms: our repeated petitions have been answered only by repeated injury. A prince, whose character is thus marked by every act which may define a tyrant, is unfit to be the ruler of a free people.
Nor have we been wanting in attention to our British brethren. We have warned them from time to time of attempts by their legislature to extend an unwarrantable jurisdiction over us. We have reminded them of the circumstances of our emigration and settlement here. We have appealed to their native justice and magnanimity, and we have conjured them by the ties of our common kindred to disavow these usurpations, which, would inevitably interrupt our connections and correspondence. They too have been deaf to the voice of justice and of consanguinity. We must, therefore, acquiesce in the necessity, which denounces our separation, and hold them, as we hold the rest of mankind, enemies in war, in peace friends.
We, therefore, the representatives of the United States of America, in General Congress, assembled, appealing to the Supreme Judge of the world for the rectitude of our intentions, do, in the name, and by the authority of the good people of these colonies, solemnly publish and declare, that these united colonies are, and of right ought to be free and independent states; that they are absolved from all allegiance to the British Crown, and that all political connection between them and the state of Great Britain, is and ought to be totally dissolved; and that as free and independent states, they have full power to levy war, conclude peace, contract alliances, establish commerce, and to do all other acts and things which independent states may of right do. And for the support of this declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honor.
New Hampshire: Josiah Bartlett, William Whipple, Matthew Thornton
Massachusetts: John Hancock, Samual Adams, John Adams, Robert Treat Paine, Elbridge Gerry
Rhode Island: Stephen Hopkins, William Ellery
Connecticut: Roger Sherman, Samuel Huntington, William Williams, Oliver Wolcott
New York: William Floyd, Philip Livingston, Francis Lewis, Lewis Morris
New Jersey: Richard Stockton, John Witherspoon, Francis Hopkinson, John Hart, Abraham Clark
Pennsylvania: Robert Morris, Benjamin Rush, Benjamin Franklin, John Morton, George Clymer, James Smith, George Taylor, James Wilson, George Ross
Delaware: Caesar Rodney, George Read, Thomas McKean
Maryland: Samuel Chase, William Paca, Thomas Stone, Charles Carroll of Carrollton
Virginia: George Wythe, Richard Henry Lee, Thomas Jefferson, Benjamin Harrison, Thomas Nelson, Jr., Francis Lightfoot Lee, Carter Braxton
North Carolina: William Hooper, Joseph Hewes, John Penn
South Carolina: Edward Rutledge, Thomas Heyward, Jr., Thomas Lynch, Jr., Arthur Middleton
Georgia: Button Gwinnett, Lyman Hall, George Walton
Source: The Pennsylvania Packet, July 8, 1776
Go back and re-read everything, IN CONTEXT, again...some folks need to work on their reading comprehension skills.
What was posted is only a drop in the bucket of what our forefathers had to say about this VERY issue.
_____________________________________________________________________
originally posted by wsfiredude
Really?
Here, select, check this out; a few words of wisdom from the past:
When, in the course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bonds which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the laws of nature and of nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. That to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. That whenever any form of government becomes destructive to these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shown that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such government, and to provide new guards for their future security. --Such has been the patient sufferance of these colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former systems of government.
Very good grasshopper. Did you notice that safety and happiness clause in there? Govt. looking after y'all. Meaning all your garbage over in gun rights is taken care of.
Negative ghostrider; you need to go back and read it again. It is not the job of government to 'look after us'; that's OUR responsibility. You know, with every word you post I am beginning to see why you 'think' like you do.
Finally.. Finally someone posted this. Federal govt. does have the right to set law. Damn I knew someone would get around to posting it sometime.
The BOR expressly FORBIDS government meddling with the 'rights of the people'.
BTW that is the Declaration of Independance the 13 states declared over England. That change of govt you highlighted was referring to them. Here is the whole thing:
Really?
As I suggested earlier, maybe you should read it again:
...That WHENEVER any form of government becomes destructive to these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new government...
...But WHEN a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such government, and to provide new guards for their future security.
quote:Originally posted by Highball
quote:Every freedom loving American would pray For FREEDOM..the hell with what it takes to get there.
"Live Free or DIE" ought to MEAN something....but to the cowards, the wimps, the Quislings...it means NOTHING.
Bring on the million man traitorous army.
Let us see if they can hold ground against the most determined enemy they ever faced... an AMERICAN , fighting for REAL freedom.not the hoked up wars of aggression and empire.
The Vietnamese handed us our buttcan and showed us the door.
quote:Originally posted by whiteclouder
quote:Originally posted by Highball
quote:Every freedom loving American would pray For FREEDOM..the hell with what it takes to get there.
"Live Free or DIE" ought to MEAN something....but to the cowards, the wimps, the Quislings...it means NOTHING.
Bring on the million man traitorous army.
Let us see if they can hold ground against the most determined enemy they ever faced... an AMERICAN , fighting for REAL freedom.not the hoked up wars of aggression and empire.
The Vietnamese handed us our buttcan and showed us the door.
Clouder..
Clouder you are right. wsfiredude the Declaration of Independence is referring to England.
wsfiredude the Declaration of Independence is referring to England.
Yes, it is;
It is also referring to any future tyrannical government:
...That WHENEVER any form of government becomes destructive to these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new government...
...But WHEN a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such government, and to provide new guards for their future security.
quote:Originally posted by whiteclouder
quote:Originally posted by Highball
quote:Every freedom loving American would pray For FREEDOM..the hell with what it takes to get there.
"Live Free or DIE" ought to MEAN something....but to the cowards, the wimps, the Quislings...it means NOTHING.
Bring on the million man traitorous army.
Let us see if they can hold ground against the most determined enemy they ever faced... an AMERICAN , fighting for REAL freedom.not the hoked up wars of aggression and empire.
The Vietnamese handed us our buttcan and showed us the door.
Clouder..
With only a bit of help from the Russians and Chinese. In addition to the fact that the Viets had been at war against "someone" for decades.
quote:Originally posted by select-fire
quote:Originally posted by whiteclouder
quote:Originally posted by Highball
quote:Every freedom loving American would pray For FREEDOM..the hell with what it takes to get there.
"Live Free or DIE" ought to MEAN something....but to the cowards, the wimps, the Quislings...it means NOTHING.
Bring on the million man traitorous army.
Let us see if they can hold ground against the most determined enemy they ever faced... an AMERICAN , fighting for REAL freedom.not the hoked up wars of aggression and empire.
The Vietnamese handed us our buttcan and showed us the door.
Clouder..
Clouder you are right. wsfiredude the Declaration of Independence is referring to England.
Select-fire...you really need to work on your reading comprehension skills. It is not...and the writings of our forefathers make that very clear.
BTW...Clouder was referring to how insane the Feds would be to fight the American people...(I think)...that's what I took from it anyway.
quote:Originally posted by ECC
quote:Originally posted by select-fire
quote:Originally posted by whiteclouder
quote:Originally posted by Highball
quote:Every freedom loving American would pray For FREEDOM..the hell with what it takes to get there.
"Live Free or DIE" ought to MEAN something....but to the cowards, the wimps, the Quislings...it means NOTHING.
Bring on the million man traitorous army.
Let us see if they can hold ground against the most determined enemy they ever faced... an AMERICAN , fighting for REAL freedom.not the hoked up wars of aggression and empire.
The Vietnamese handed us our buttcan and showed us the door.
Clouder..
Clouder you are right. wsfiredude the Declaration of Independence is referring to England.
Select-fire...you really need to work on your reading comprehension skills. It is not...and the writings of our forefathers make that very clear.
BTW...Clouder was referring to how insane the Feds would be to fight the American people...(I think)...that's what I took from it anyway.
ECC you better go back to school. Who do you think they were referring to in the Declaration of Independence? geesh..
Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of Liberty.
- Thomas Jefferson
"A nation of well informed men who have been taught to know and prize the rights which God has given them cannot be enslaved. It is in the region of ignorance that tyranny begins."
- Benjamin Franklin
"... God forbid we should ever be twenty years without such a rebellion. The people cannot be all, and always, well informed. The part which is wrong will be discontented, in proportion to the importance of the facts they misconceive. If they remain quiet under such misconceptions, it is lethargy, the forerunner of death to the public liberty.... And what country can preserve its liberties, if its rulers are not warned from time to time, that this people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms. The remedy is to set them right as to the facts, pardon and pacify them. What signify a few lives lost in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time, with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is its natural manure."
- Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 (C.J. Boyd, Ed., 1950)
"Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is argument of tyrants. It is the creed of slaves."
- William Pitt in the House of Commons November 18, 1783
Can't wait to see how you twist and distort these words.....
quote:Originally posted by ECC
quote:Originally posted by Duce1
The real difference in our beliefs is that I think for all Americans not just myself .
Where most others think of them self first and no other.
I think " WE " and not " ME " .
Which is EXACTLY why you will never be a rugged individualist...like our forefathers were.
Your rugged individualist will die alone and hungry. Our forefathers were definately NOT individualists; they shared, helped and sacrificed with and for the group---always. The Constitution
is and always has been about WE the people, not ME the citizen. It guarantees OUR rights granted by God. One NATION under God, not me and my shadow.
Does the oath that every GI has to take at enlistment read:
1. "..and will obey all orders"
2. "..and will obey all lawful orders"
How is the oath worded? Anybody remember? I can't recall, back when I was sent to Vietnam to fight for big business interests (spoon fed 'Vietnamese Freedom'). Best, Joe
EDIT
Thanks, Don (post response further down this string). Best, Joe
quote:Originally posted by givette
Does the oath that every GI has to take at enlistment read:
1. "..and will obey all orders"
2. "..and will obey all lawful orders"
How is the oath worded? Anybody remember? I can't recall, back when I was sent to Vietnam to fight for big business interests (spoon fed 'Vietnamese Freedom'). Best, Joe
"I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God."
The Oath of Office (for officers):
"I, _____ (SSAN), having been appointed an officer in the Army of the United States, as indicated above in the grade of _____ do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign or domestic, that I will bear true faith and allegiance tot he same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservations or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office upon which I am about to enter; So help me God."
One must assume that the enlisted oath, with the '..according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice.' is stating lawful orders rather than all orders. The 'support and defend the Constitution of the United States...' also confirms the following of only lawful orders, not to mention the goings on at Nuremberg.
Freedom and a submissive populace cannot co-exist.
quote:Originally posted by select-fire
quote:Originally posted by ECC
quote:Originally posted by select-fire
quote:Originally posted by whiteclouder
quote:Originally posted by Highball
quote:Every freedom loving American would pray For FREEDOM..the hell with what it takes to get there.
"Live Free or DIE" ought to MEAN something....but to the cowards, the wimps, the Quislings...it means NOTHING.
Bring on the million man traitorous army.
Let us see if they can hold ground against the most determined enemy they ever faced... an AMERICAN , fighting for REAL freedom.not the hoked up wars of aggression and empire.
The Vietnamese handed us our buttcan and showed us the door.
Clouder..
Clouder you are right. wsfiredude the Declaration of Independence is referring to England.
Select-fire...you really need to work on your reading comprehension skills. It is not...and the writings of our forefathers make that very clear.
BTW...Clouder was referring to how insane the Feds would be to fight the American people...(I think)...that's what I took from it anyway.
ECC you better go back to school. Who do you think they were referring to in the Declaration of Independence? geesh..
You clearly have a VERY limited understanding of our nation's founding...along with the writings of our forefathers. Your reading comprehension skills are not the best either.
quote:Originally posted by Barzillia
quote:Originally posted by ECC
quote:Originally posted by select-fire
There are hard times coming. People will GET THEIR CHOICE;
Follow the Beast;
Follow the Constitution.
You DON'T GET TO DO BOTH.it is an utter impossibility.
Speak for yourself Select. HB has it right...and I'm one of those GI's who has fought for our freedoms.
That is the idolatry.
A double minded man is unstable in all of his ways.
Are you referring to me or Select-fire? If you are referring to me, you could not be more off base...but considering the fact that we cannot debate "religion" here, it'll have to be done through email...should you chose to do so.
Are you referring to me or Select-fire? If you are referring to me, you could not be more off base...but considering the fact that we cannot debate "religion" here, it'll have to be done through email...should you chose to do so.
How can you debate religion, Eric; you are wrong and will always be so.
quote:Originally posted by whiteclouder
quote:Originally posted by ECC
Are you referring to me or Select-fire? If you are referring to me, you could not be more off base...but considering the fact that we cannot debate "religion" here, it'll have to be done through email...should you chose to do so.
How can you debate religion, Eric; you are wrong and will always be so.
Clouder..
If you believe so, you had better hope you are right.
I believe that I do perform a valuable service, I bring a dose of reality and historic fact to offset the Pie-in-the-sky "dreams" (your word HB) of what appears to be a bunch of extremists.
I have attempted to point out where "we" went wrong and how "we" win back our right. I have been shouted down by you and the flock, because it's ALL or Nothing with you fellas. You view Heller as a loss, while I see it as a step in the right direction.
We don't and probably never will see eye to eye. If you notice, I don't go into attack mode until you or another of your flock launches an electronic slam my way. Or, as of late, YOU lump me into a group in one of your posts and I feel like setting things straight.
Interesting bunch you fellas are. Some think the Supreme Court are wrong because they don't like the rulings of the Court. This isn't anything new. There is always a side that will disagree with any ruling. The problem as I see it is that this is a Constitutional Republic with fixed procedures and many of the flock don't like the way "things" have been going.
Too bad the flock isn't the majority (or even the majority in the small amount of voters that actually vote). Then you could have it your way.
As another poster already said, this country isn't about you or me (the individual), it's about all of us (society or the "collective" as you like to call it). That's the way it is and always has been. Perhaps you should try to get used to it.
quote:Originally posted by Highball
The 'ices' of the country COULD be performing a valuable service...were they so inclined.
"This is where the Constitution was abridged...HERE is how to get it back on track".
Oddly enough, that does not seem to be his message at all. No, he prefers to attempt to tear down the few men who find the present situation intolerable and criminal.
We look around at the devastation wrought by the fascists/communists , elected by apathetic, ignorant, uncaring masses and grow sick to heart.
He merely attacks those of us with a dream...the dream of the Founders.
It does not MATTER that that dream was soiled, nearly in the instance of birth...the fact remains, it brought the greatest freedom to the greatest number of people ever in History !!
The Constitution did not soil ITSELF.rotten corrupt MEN soiled it. Sometime read up on George Washington...you will get an education.PROVIDED you read something besides government propaganda.
The force of the gutted remains, here today, STILL holds the elites and the power-mad in (ever loosening) chains...or the purging fields would long ago have visited America,
The force of the Constitution has held those killing fields to isolated incidents.Waco, Ruby Ridge, Kent State.but those chains on the power-mad are falling away before our very eyes.
There are hard times coming. People will GET THEIR CHOICE;
Follow the Beast;
Follow the Constitution.
You DON'T GET TO DO BOTH.it is an utter impossibility.
quote:o bad the flock isn't the majority (or even the majority in the small amount of voters that actually vote). Then you could have it your way.
As another poster already said, this country isn't about you or me (the individual), it's about all of us (society or the "collective" as you like to call it). That's the way it is and always has been. Perhaps you should try to get used to it
THEREIN lies the crux ..the very HEART...of the difference between you and I.
The Constitution was written precisely to PROTECT the individual AGAINST the `majority'.in ALL things.
The Constitution was intended to deprive the majority their tyranny against isolated individuals that Society did not agree with.as LONG as the individual lived according to the Constitution.
I see no reason to embrace corruption, greed, and cowardice MERELY because the great mass of Society finds it acceptable.
Nor do I find it comforting when the Supreme Court finds AGAINST the clear wording of the Constitution.merely because YOU do.
You may find it acceptable for 51 percent of the population to vote to throw me in jail because I wear a blue shirt on Monday. That does not make it Constitutional.EVEN if the Supreme Court finds in favor of that 51 percent.
This comes back to FOUR simple words ;
"Shall Not Be Infringed".
I don't give a damn WHAT the supreme court says is `Constitutional' (Heller, reasonable restrictions) They are merely the tool of insane power-mad scumbags.
Get used to it.
What the 'majority' WANTS is irrelevant unless it passes Constitutional muster...and a corrupted Court is NOT the final answer. Sorry about that for you and your comfort.
you said live free or die, I think there will be a third catagory, live in a fema camp wishing you were dead.
we could win a war against our military if we all joined together to defeat them but I wonder how many would be willing to make that commitment and how many others would be willing to sacrefice their own lives with the same fervor the seem to have when it comes to sending our boys overseas to fight.
you know our government is not going to change it's path, today they are making a show of scolding Ben Beirnanke for his mishandling the economy but it's just for looks because they are sure to re-appoint him for 4 more years.
I don't give a damn WHAT the supreme court says is `Constitutional' (Heller, reasonable restrictions) They are merely the tool of insane power-mad scumbags.
How can anyone be expected to help you and your ilk when you insist on blurting out tripe like the above?
.....the right of the people (that's the collective, big fella). Odd it doesn't say person.
quote:Originally posted by Highball
quote:o bad the flock isn't the majority (or even the majority in the small amount of voters that actually vote). Then you could have it your way.
As another poster already said, this country isn't about you or me (the individual), it's about all of us (society or the "collective" as you like to call it). That's the way it is and always has been. Perhaps you should try to get used to it
THEREIN lies the crux ..the very HEART...of the difference between you and I.
The Constitution was written precisely to PROTECT the individual AGAINST the `majority'.in ALL things.
The Constitution was intended to deprive the majority their tyranny against isolated individuals that Society did not agree with.as LONG as the individual lived according to the Constitution.
I see no reason to embrace corruption, greed, and cowardice MERELY because the great mass of Society finds it acceptable.
Nor do I find it comforting when the Supreme Court finds AGAINST the clear wording of the Constitution.merely because YOU do.
You may find it acceptable for 51 percent of the population to vote to throw me in jail because I wear a blue shirt on Monday. That does not make it Constitutional.EVEN if the Supreme Court finds in favor of that 51 percent.
This comes back to FOUR simple words ;
"Shall Not Be Infringed".
I don't give a damn WHAT the supreme court says is `Constitutional' (Heller, reasonable restrictions) They are merely the tool of insane power-mad scumbags.
Get used to it.
What the 'majority' WANTS is irrelevant unless it passes Constitutional muster...and a corrupted Court is NOT the final answer. Sorry about that for you and your comfort.
quote:How can anyone be expected to help you and your ilk when you insist on blurting out tripe like the above?
I neither NEED...nor WANT the help of a weak reed like you, ice.
Careful, your bi-polar disorder appears to be showing.
Originally posted by Highball
quote:The 'ices' of the country COULD be performing a valuable service...were they so inclined.
"This is where the Constitution was abridged...HERE is how to get it back on track".
Originally posted by Highball
quote:I neither NEED...nor WANT the help of a weak reed like you, ice.
quote:Originally posted by Highball
quote:o bad the flock isn't the majority (or even the majority in the small amount of voters that actually vote). Then you could have it your way.
As another poster already said, this country isn't about you or me (the individual), it's about all of us (society or the "collective" as you like to call it). That's the way it is and always has been. Perhaps you should try to get used to it
THEREIN lies the crux ..the very HEART...of the difference between you and I.
The Constitution was written precisely to PROTECT the individual AGAINST the `majority'.in ALL things.
The Constitution was intended to deprive the majority their tyranny against isolated individuals that Society did not agree with.as LONG as the individual lived according to the Constitution.
I see no reason to embrace corruption, greed, and cowardice MERELY because the great mass of Society finds it acceptable.
Nor do I find it comforting when the Supreme Court finds AGAINST the clear wording of the Constitution.merely because YOU do.
You may find it acceptable for 51 percent of the population to vote to throw me in jail because I wear a blue shirt on Monday. That does not make it Constitutional.EVEN if the Supreme Court finds in favor of that 51 percent.
This comes back to FOUR simple words ;
"Shall Not Be Infringed".
I don't give a damn WHAT the supreme court says is `Constitutional' (Heller, reasonable restrictions) They are merely the tool of insane power-mad scumbags.
Get used to it.
What the 'majority' WANTS is irrelevant unless it passes Constitutional muster...and a corrupted Court is NOT the final answer. Sorry about that for you and your comfort.
When is your finger pointing going to end and you do something ?
Anything ?
Show me your the man that you preach and want to be ?
Really ?
Actually, YOUR reading comprehension is so lacking it is pathetic.
I reiterate ;
You, being a smart fella, COULD be an invaluable asset.WERE you to suddenly deny the Beast and take up the cudgel for the Constitution and Bill of Rights.
You will not, you simply CANNOT...because I believe that strength of character does not reside in you.
quote:When is your finger pointing going to end and you do something ?
I AM DOING something, duce...I am educating the ignorant. Feel anything..yet ?
Sadly, many will NEVER understand..and as time goes forward, it is increasingly clear you are one of those.
quote:Originally posted by Highball
quote:When is your finger pointing going to end and you do something ?
I AM DOING something, duce...I am educating the ignorant. Feel anything..yet ?
Sadly, many will NEVER understand..and as time goes forward, it is increasingly clear you are one of those.
And clearly you are not a leader that some seek !
Your words echo in a garbage can .
Tell a man he is doing wrong and you will only get resentment .
Show a man he is doing wrong and he will follow you .
Now one day you might get the hint that you have failed at so miserably so far .
quote:Originally posted by Highball
quote:When is your finger pointing going to end and you do something ?
I AM DOING something, duce...I am educating the ignorant. Feel anything..yet ?
Sadly, many will NEVER understand..and as time goes forward, it is increasingly clear you are one of those.
Never pretended to be a 'leader'.
Leaders will arise from the smoking ruins of this civilization..and they will carry death and destruction to the front doorsteps of the misleaders that advance THEIR agendas at the expense of everybody else.
Watch...CAREFULLY..those professing to be 'leaders'. Leaders are MADE...not self elected.
Those 'leaders' you so desperately seek WILL become known...WHEN IT IS TIME.
The REST of us NEED no leaders...in order to speak the truth.
quote:Originally posted by Highball
Never pretended to be a 'leader'.
Leaders will arise from the smoking ruins of this civilization..and they will carry death and destruction to the front doorsteps of the misleaders that advance THEIR agendas at the expense of everybody else.
Watch...CAREFULLY..those professing to be 'leaders'. Leaders are MADE...not self elected.
Those 'leaders' you so desperately seek WILL become known...WHEN IT IS TIME.
The REST of us NEED no leaders...in order to speak the truth.
I am so glad you need no leader , as for speaking the truth when are you going to start ?
When are you going to take your blame as well ?
When are you going to quit being the beast that you claim others to be ?
When are you going to be a part of the solution and not the problem ?
And most of all when are " YOU " going to do something ?
I will wait until your smoke and mirrors plan blows up and you give real solutions and do something .
And do not claim to be educating others as what your doing as anyone knows that is not in your plan .
Comments
We can all agree that:
A. We love our country and would die to defend it.
B. The government is out of control and is overstepping it's boundaries.
C. At the present rate, the government is heading toward total control.
D. We want the government to obey the Constitution as it is written.
E. We want to be free people in a free country.
I'm still trying to understand what we are arguing about. I'm not taking sides, just trying to make peace. I feel as Americans, we have enough enemies to be fighting amongst each other.
We can all agree that:
A. We love our country and would die to defend it.
B. The government is out of control and is overstepping it's boundaries.
C. At the present rate, the government is heading toward total control.
D. We want the government to obey the Constitution as it is written.
E. We want to be free people in a free country.
The core of the disagreement I will call it not a argument is !
( Who deserves the Constitution ? )
A chosen few as in what highball says .
Or do we all deserve the Constitution as I say .
There are other smaller parts to the disagreement but this is the core of it .
I'm still trying to understand what we are arguing about. I'm not taking sides, just trying to make peace. I feel as Americans, we have enough enemies to be fighting amongst each other.
We can all agree that:
A. We love our country and would die to defend it.
B. The government is out of control and is overstepping it's boundaries.
C. At the present rate, the government is heading toward total control.
D. We want the government to obey the Constitution as it is written.
E. We want to be free people in a free country.
i have to add one oklahoma
we want our soldiers to uphold and defend this country first, against enemys foreign and domestic...before we worry about the freedom of foreign nations..and that would mean expulsion by force if necessary ,the politicians and bankers who disregard the constitution...
quote:Originally posted by Highball
quote:I am opposed to fighting in the streets, I have seen that in other countries and those of you that want that don't know what you are asking for. No not here. I believe that we need to fight in a nonviolent manner until we have no other option but to use violence,
You repeat what others...non-Constitutional others...keep mouthing.
NOBODY that is sane wishes for 'fighting in the streets'. But By God I will not sit idly by while an elite, corrupted gang of thugs tighten their grip on the throats of Americans till they throttle the life out of them.The day they send the troops into the streets to take by force what they have been stealing by guile is the day THEY declared war...NOT US !!
Listening to duce and ice will PERMANTELY screw up your mind. NONE of us demanding a return to Constitutional government is trying to take ANY freedom away from ANYBODY.
Except, of the course, their freedom to have a totally free hand to finish the takeover of America BY Socialism/Fascism.
GRANTED.if THAT is your agenda.we are INDEED `hateful' creatures.
Sound like a terroristic threat you made against the U.S.A.
Absurd! Sounds like a man who knows what his forefathers had to say about freedom.
quote:Originally posted by Highball
The 'ices' of the country COULD be performing a valuable service...were they so inclined.
"This is where the Constitution was abridged...HERE is how to get it back on track".
Oddly enough, that does not seem to be his message at all. No, he prefers to attempt to tear down the few men who find the present situation intolerable and criminal.
We look around at the devastation wrought by the fascists/communists , elected by apathetic, ignorant, uncaring masses and grow sick to heart.
He merely attacks those of us with a dream...the dream of the Founders.
It does not MATTER that that dream was soiled, nearly in the instance of birth...the fact remains, it brought the greatest freedom to the greatest number of people ever in History !!
The Constitution did not soil ITSELF.rotten corrupt MEN soiled it. Sometime read up on George Washington...you will get an education.PROVIDED you read something besides government propaganda.
The force of the gutted remains, here today, STILL holds the elites and the power-mad in (ever loosening) chains...or the purging fields would long ago have visited America,
The force of the Constitution has held those killing fields to isolated incidents.Waco, Ruby Ridge, Kent State.but those chains on the power-mad are falling away before our very eyes.
There are hard times coming. People will GET THEIR CHOICE;
Follow the Beast;
Follow the Constitution.
You DON'T GET TO DO BOTH.it is an utter impossibility.
Your statements against the USA are insulting against any GI that has ever and is continueing to defend this great nation and everything it stands for.
Speak for yourself Select. HB has it right...and I'm one of those GI's who has fought for our freedoms.
quote:Originally posted by Oklahoma223
I'm still trying to understand what we are arguing about. I'm not taking sides, just trying to make peace. I feel as Americans, we have enough enemies to be fighting amongst each other.
We can all agree that:
A. We love our country and would die to defend it.
B. The government is out of control and is overstepping it's boundaries.
C. At the present rate, the government is heading toward total control.
D. We want the government to obey the Constitution as it is written.
E. We want to be free people in a free country.
The core of the disagreement I will call it not a argument is !
( Who deserves the Constitution ? )
A chosen few as in what highball says .
Or do we all deserve the Constitution as I say .
There are other smaller parts to the disagreement but this is the core of it .
Duce:
A guy as tacticool as you should understand the intent of a Constitutional Stance.
The Constitution is for all of us, but many in this country and on this forum have not internalized what true freedom, individual liberty, and, yes an 'unfringable' right means.
The Constitution lives on life support only today because many believe that its words are merely a guide that can be twisted when it benefits 'the people'.
Obvious dangers have been shown to be that the good of the people in one man's eye is different in another.
Many argue that it is not Unconstitutional to limit firearm ownership to ex-offenders, and many argue that the existing practical ban on full-auto weapons is not Unconstitutional. A simple reading puts the lie to both concepts.
Allowing a government to exceed its charter is excusable when there is no reasonable option. Supporting that excess is not excusable, and it is those supporters who deserve the Constitution they have created, even though it is not the Constitution that is written.
Brad Steele
quote:Originally posted by Highball
quote:I am opposed to fighting in the streets, I have seen that in other countries and those of you that want that don't know what you are asking for. No not here. I believe that we need to fight in a nonviolent manner until we have no other option but to use violence,
You repeat what others...non-Constitutional others...keep mouthing.
NOBODY that is sane wishes for 'fighting in the streets'. But By God I will not sit idly by while an elite, corrupted gang of thugs tighten their grip on the throats of Americans till they throttle the life out of them.The day they send the troops into the streets to take by force what they have been stealing by guile is the day THEY declared war...NOT US !!
Listening to duce and ice will PERMANTELY screw up your mind. NONE of us demanding a return to Constitutional government is trying to take ANY freedom away from ANYBODY.
Except, of the course, their freedom to have a totally free hand to finish the takeover of America BY Socialism/Fascism.
GRANTED.if THAT is your agenda.we are INDEED `hateful' creatures.
Sound like a terroristic threat you made against the U.S.A.
Really?
Here, select, check this out; a few words of wisdom from the past:
When, in the course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bonds which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the laws of nature and of nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. That to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. That whenever any form of government becomes destructive to these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shown that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such government, and to provide new guards for their future security. --Such has been the patient sufferance of these colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former systems of government.
Here, select, check this out; a few words of wisdom from the past:[/blue]
When, in the course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bonds which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the laws of nature and of nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. That to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. That whenever any form of government becomes destructive to these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shown that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such government, and to provide new guards for their future security. --Such has been the patient sufferance of these colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former systems of government.
The guy that wrote that was a terrorist. [;)]
quote:Originally posted by select-fire
quote:Originally posted by Highball
quote:I am opposed to fighting in the streets, I have seen that in other countries and those of you that want that don't know what you are asking for. No not here. I believe that we need to fight in a nonviolent manner until we have no other option but to use violence,
You repeat what others...non-Constitutional others...keep mouthing.
NOBODY that is sane wishes for 'fighting in the streets'. But By God I will not sit idly by while an elite, corrupted gang of thugs tighten their grip on the throats of Americans till they throttle the life out of them.The day they send the troops into the streets to take by force what they have been stealing by guile is the day THEY declared war...NOT US !!
Listening to duce and ice will PERMANTELY screw up your mind. NONE of us demanding a return to Constitutional government is trying to take ANY freedom away from ANYBODY.
Except, of the course, their freedom to have a totally free hand to finish the takeover of America BY Socialism/Fascism.
GRANTED.if THAT is your agenda.we are INDEED `hateful' creatures.
Sound like a terroristic threat you made against the U.S.A.
Really?
Here, select, check this out; a few words of wisdom from the past:
When, in the course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bonds which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the laws of nature and of nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. That to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. That whenever any form of government becomes destructive to these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shown that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such government, and to provide new guards for their future security. --Such has been the patient sufferance of these colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former systems of government.
Very good grasshopper. Did you notice that safety and happiness clause in there? Govt. looking after y'all. Meaning all your garbage over in gun rights is taken care of. Finally.. Finally someone posted this. Federal govt. does have the right to set law. Damn I knew someone would get around to posting it sometime. BTW that is the Declaration of Independance the 13 states declared over England. That change of govt you highlighted was referring to them. Here is the whole thing:
Declaration of Independence
Here is the complete text of the Declaration of Independence.
The original spelling and capitalization have been retained.
(Adopted by Congress on July 4, 1776)
The Unanimous Declaration
of the Thirteen United States of America
Teachers & Students: Free Downloads of Rare Scenes Of Early America's People, Places & Events!
When, in the course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bonds which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the laws of nature and of nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. That to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. That whenever any form of government becomes destructive to these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shown that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such government, and to provide new guards for their future security. --Such has been the patient sufferance of these colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former systems of government. The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute tyranny over these states. To prove this, let facts be submitted to a candid world.
He has refused his assent to laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public good.
He has forbidden his governors to pass laws of immediate and pressing importance, unless suspended in their operation till his assent should be obtained; and when so suspended, he has utterly neglected to attend to them.
He has refused to pass other laws for the accommodation of large districts of people, unless those people would relinquish the right of representation in the legislature, a right inestimable to them and formidable to tyrants only.
He has called together legislative bodies at places unusual, uncomfortable, and distant from the depository of their public records, for the sole purpose of fatiguing them into compliance with his measures.
He has dissolved representative houses repeatedly, for opposing with manly firmness his invasions on the rights of the people.
He has refused for a long time, after such dissolutions, to cause others to be elected; whereby the legislative powers, incapable of annihilation, have returned to the people at large for their exercise; the state remaining in the meantime exposed to all the dangers of invasion from without, and convulsions within.
He has endeavored to prevent the population of these states; for that purpose obstructing the laws for naturalization of foreigners; refusing to pass others to encourage their migration hither, and raising the conditions of new appropriations of lands.
He has obstructed the administration of justice, by refusing his assent to laws for establishing judiciary powers.
He has made judges dependent on his will alone, for the tenure of their offices, and the amount and payment of their salaries.
He has erected a multitude of new offices, and sent hither swarms of officers to harass our people, and eat out their substance.
He has kept among us, in times of peace, standing armies without the consent of our legislature.
He has affected to render the military independent of and superior to civil power.
He has combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our constitution, and unacknowledged by our laws; giving his assent to their acts of pretended legislation:
For quartering large bodies of armed troops among us:
For protecting them, by mock trial, from punishment for any murders which they should commit on the inhabitants of these states:
For cutting off our trade with all parts of the world:
For imposing taxes on us without our consent:
For depriving us in many cases, of the benefits of trial by jury:
For transporting us beyond seas to be tried for pretended offenses:
For abolishing the free system of English laws in a neighboring province, establishing therein an arbitrary government, and enlarging its boundaries so as to render it at once an example and fit instrument for introducing the same absolute rule in these colonies:
For taking away our charters, abolishing our most valuable laws, and altering fundamentally the forms of our governments:
For suspending our own legislatures, and declaring themselves invested with power to legislate for us in all cases whatsoever.
He has abdicated government here, by declaring us out of his protection and waging war against us.
He has plundered our seas, ravaged our coasts, burned our towns, and destroyed the lives of our people.
He is at this time transporting large armies of foreign mercenaries to complete the works of death, desolation and tyranny, already begun with circumstances of cruelty and perfidy scarcely paralleled in the most barbarous ages, and totally unworthy the head of a civilized nation.
He has constrained our fellow citizens taken captive on the high seas to bear arms against their country, to become the executioners of their friends and brethren, or to fall themselves by their hands.
He has excited domestic insurrections amongst us, and has endeavored to bring on the inhabitants of our frontiers, the merciless Indian savages, whose known rule of warfare, is undistinguished destruction of all ages, sexes and conditions.
In every stage of these oppressions we have petitioned for redress in the most humble terms: our repeated petitions have been answered only by repeated injury. A prince, whose character is thus marked by every act which may define a tyrant, is unfit to be the ruler of a free people.
Nor have we been wanting in attention to our British brethren. We have warned them from time to time of attempts by their legislature to extend an unwarrantable jurisdiction over us. We have reminded them of the circumstances of our emigration and settlement here. We have appealed to their native justice and magnanimity, and we have conjured them by the ties of our common kindred to disavow these usurpations, which, would inevitably interrupt our connections and correspondence. They too have been deaf to the voice of justice and of consanguinity. We must, therefore, acquiesce in the necessity, which denounces our separation, and hold them, as we hold the rest of mankind, enemies in war, in peace friends.
We, therefore, the representatives of the United States of America, in General Congress, assembled, appealing to the Supreme Judge of the world for the rectitude of our intentions, do, in the name, and by the authority of the good people of these colonies, solemnly publish and declare, that these united colonies are, and of right ought to be free and independent states; that they are absolved from all allegiance to the British Crown, and that all political connection between them and the state of Great Britain, is and ought to be totally dissolved; and that as free and independent states, they have full power to levy war, conclude peace, contract alliances, establish commerce, and to do all other acts and things which independent states may of right do. And for the support of this declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honor.
New Hampshire: Josiah Bartlett, William Whipple, Matthew Thornton
Massachusetts: John Hancock, Samual Adams, John Adams, Robert Treat Paine, Elbridge Gerry
Rhode Island: Stephen Hopkins, William Ellery
Connecticut: Roger Sherman, Samuel Huntington, William Williams, Oliver Wolcott
New York: William Floyd, Philip Livingston, Francis Lewis, Lewis Morris
New Jersey: Richard Stockton, John Witherspoon, Francis Hopkinson, John Hart, Abraham Clark
Pennsylvania: Robert Morris, Benjamin Rush, Benjamin Franklin, John Morton, George Clymer, James Smith, George Taylor, James Wilson, George Ross
Delaware: Caesar Rodney, George Read, Thomas McKean
Maryland: Samuel Chase, William Paca, Thomas Stone, Charles Carroll of Carrollton
Virginia: George Wythe, Richard Henry Lee, Thomas Jefferson, Benjamin Harrison, Thomas Nelson, Jr., Francis Lightfoot Lee, Carter Braxton
North Carolina: William Hooper, Joseph Hewes, John Penn
South Carolina: Edward Rutledge, Thomas Heyward, Jr., Thomas Lynch, Jr., Arthur Middleton
Georgia: Button Gwinnett, Lyman Hall, George Walton
Source: The Pennsylvania Packet, July 8, 1776
quote:Originally posted by wsfiredude
quote:Originally posted by select-fire
quote:Originally posted by Highball
quote:I am opposed to fighting in the streets, I have seen that in other countries and those of you that want that don't know what you are asking for. No not here. I believe that we need to fight in a nonviolent manner until we have no other option but to use violence,
You repeat what others...non-Constitutional others...keep mouthing.
NOBODY that is sane wishes for 'fighting in the streets'. But By God I will not sit idly by while an elite, corrupted gang of thugs tighten their grip on the throats of Americans till they throttle the life out of them.The day they send the troops into the streets to take by force what they have been stealing by guile is the day THEY declared war...NOT US !!
Listening to duce and ice will PERMANTELY screw up your mind. NONE of us demanding a return to Constitutional government is trying to take ANY freedom away from ANYBODY.
Except, of the course, their freedom to have a totally free hand to finish the takeover of America BY Socialism/Fascism.
GRANTED.if THAT is your agenda.we are INDEED `hateful' creatures.
Sound like a terroristic threat you made against the U.S.A.
Really?
Here, select, check this out; a few words of wisdom from the past:
When, in the course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bonds which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the laws of nature and of nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. That to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. That whenever any form of government becomes destructive to these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shown that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such government, and to provide new guards for their future security. --Such has been the patient sufferance of these colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former systems of government.
Very good grasshopper. Did you notice that safety and happiness clause in there? Govt. looking after y'all. Meaning all your garbage over in gun rights is taken care of. Finally.. Finally someone posted this. Federal govt. does have the right to set law. Damn I knew someone would get around to posting it sometime. BTW that is the Declaration of Independance the 13 states declared over England. That change of govt you highlighted was referring to them. Here is the whole thing:
Declaration of Independence
Here is the complete text of the Declaration of Independence.
The original spelling and capitalization have been retained.
(Adopted by Congress on July 4, 1776)
The Unanimous Declaration
of the Thirteen United States of America
Teachers & Students: Free Downloads of Rare Scenes Of Early America's People, Places & Events!
When, in the course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bonds which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the laws of nature and of nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. That to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. That whenever any form of government becomes destructive to these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shown that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such government, and to provide new guards for their future security. --Such has been the patient sufferance of these colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former systems of government. The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute tyranny over these states. To prove this, let facts be submitted to a candid world.
He has refused his assent to laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public good.
He has forbidden his governors to pass laws of immediate and pressing importance, unless suspended in their operation till his assent should be obtained; and when so suspended, he has utterly neglected to attend to them.
He has refused to pass other laws for the accommodation of large districts of people, unless those people would relinquish the right of representation in the legislature, a right inestimable to them and formidable to tyrants only.
He has called together legislative bodies at places unusual, uncomfortable, and distant from the depository of their public records, for the sole purpose of fatiguing them into compliance with his measures.
He has dissolved representative houses repeatedly, for opposing with manly firmness his invasions on the rights of the people.
He has refused for a long time, after such dissolutions, to cause others to be elected; whereby the legislative powers, incapable of annihilation, have returned to the people at large for their exercise; the state remaining in the meantime exposed to all the dangers of invasion from without, and convulsions within.
He has endeavored to prevent the population of these states; for that purpose obstructing the laws for naturalization of foreigners; refusing to pass others to encourage their migration hither, and raising the conditions of new appropriations of lands.
He has obstructed the administration of justice, by refusing his assent to laws for establishing judiciary powers.
He has made judges dependent on his will alone, for the tenure of their offices, and the amount and payment of their salaries.
He has erected a multitude of new offices, and sent hither swarms of officers to harass our people, and eat out their substance.
He has kept among us, in times of peace, standing armies without the consent of our legislature.
He has affected to render the military independent of and superior to civil power.
He has combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our constitution, and unacknowledged by our laws; giving his assent to their acts of pretended legislation:
For quartering large bodies of armed troops among us:
For protecting them, by mock trial, from punishment for any murders which they should commit on the inhabitants of these states:
For cutting off our trade with all parts of the world:
For imposing taxes on us without our consent:
For depriving us in many cases, of the benefits of trial by jury:
For transporting us beyond seas to be tried for pretended offenses:
For abolishing the free system of English laws in a neighboring province, establishing therein an arbitrary government, and enlarging its boundaries so as to render it at once an example and fit instrument for introducing the same absolute rule in these colonies:
For taking away our charters, abolishing our most valuable laws, and altering fundamentally the forms of our governments:
For suspending our own legislatures, and declaring themselves invested with power to legislate for us in all cases whatsoever.
He has abdicated government here, by declaring us out of his protection and waging war against us.
He has plundered our seas, ravaged our coasts, burned our towns, and destroyed the lives of our people.
He is at this time transporting large armies of foreign mercenaries to complete the works of death, desolation and tyranny, already begun with circumstances of cruelty and perfidy scarcely paralleled in the most barbarous ages, and totally unworthy the head of a civilized nation.
He has constrained our fellow citizens taken captive on the high seas to bear arms against their country, to become the executioners of their friends and brethren, or to fall themselves by their hands.
He has excited domestic insurrections amongst us, and has endeavored to bring on the inhabitants of our frontiers, the merciless Indian savages, whose known rule of warfare, is undistinguished destruction of all ages, sexes and conditions.
In every stage of these oppressions we have petitioned for redress in the most humble terms: our repeated petitions have been answered only by repeated injury. A prince, whose character is thus marked by every act which may define a tyrant, is unfit to be the ruler of a free people.
Nor have we been wanting in attention to our British brethren. We have warned them from time to time of attempts by their legislature to extend an unwarrantable jurisdiction over us. We have reminded them of the circumstances of our emigration and settlement here. We have appealed to their native justice and magnanimity, and we have conjured them by the ties of our common kindred to disavow these usurpations, which, would inevitably interrupt our connections and correspondence. They too have been deaf to the voice of justice and of consanguinity. We must, therefore, acquiesce in the necessity, which denounces our separation, and hold them, as we hold the rest of mankind, enemies in war, in peace friends.
We, therefore, the representatives of the United States of America, in General Congress, assembled, appealing to the Supreme Judge of the world for the rectitude of our intentions, do, in the name, and by the authority of the good people of these colonies, solemnly publish and declare, that these united colonies are, and of right ought to be free and independent states; that they are absolved from all allegiance to the British Crown, and that all political connection between them and the state of Great Britain, is and ought to be totally dissolved; and that as free and independent states, they have full power to levy war, conclude peace, contract alliances, establish commerce, and to do all other acts and things which independent states may of right do. And for the support of this declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honor.
New Hampshire: Josiah Bartlett, William Whipple, Matthew Thornton
Massachusetts: John Hancock, Samual Adams, John Adams, Robert Treat Paine, Elbridge Gerry
Rhode Island: Stephen Hopkins, William Ellery
Connecticut: Roger Sherman, Samuel Huntington, William Williams, Oliver Wolcott
New York: William Floyd, Philip Livingston, Francis Lewis, Lewis Morris
New Jersey: Richard Stockton, John Witherspoon, Francis Hopkinson, John Hart, Abraham Clark
Pennsylvania: Robert Morris, Benjamin Rush, Benjamin Franklin, John Morton, George Clymer, James Smith, George Taylor, James Wilson, George Ross
Delaware: Caesar Rodney, George Read, Thomas McKean
Maryland: Samuel Chase, William Paca, Thomas Stone, Charles Carroll of Carrollton
Virginia: George Wythe, Richard Henry Lee, Thomas Jefferson, Benjamin Harrison, Thomas Nelson, Jr., Francis Lightfoot Lee, Carter Braxton
North Carolina: William Hooper, Joseph Hewes, John Penn
South Carolina: Edward Rutledge, Thomas Heyward, Jr., Thomas Lynch, Jr., Arthur Middleton
Georgia: Button Gwinnett, Lyman Hall, George Walton
Source: The Pennsylvania Packet, July 8, 1776
Go back and re-read everything, IN CONTEXT, again...some folks need to work on their reading comprehension skills.
What was posted is only a drop in the bucket of what our forefathers had to say about this VERY issue.
_____________________________________________________________________
originally posted by wsfiredude
Really?
Here, select, check this out; a few words of wisdom from the past:
When, in the course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bonds which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the laws of nature and of nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. That to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. That whenever any form of government becomes destructive to these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shown that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such government, and to provide new guards for their future security. --Such has been the patient sufferance of these colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former systems of government.
______________________________________________________________________
Very good grasshopper. Did you notice that safety and happiness clause in there? Govt. looking after y'all. Meaning all your garbage over in gun rights is taken care of.
Negative ghostrider; you need to go back and read it again. It is not the job of government to 'look after us'; that's OUR responsibility. You know, with every word you post I am beginning to see why you 'think' like you do.
Finally.. Finally someone posted this. Federal govt. does have the right to set law. Damn I knew someone would get around to posting it sometime.
The BOR expressly FORBIDS government meddling with the 'rights of the people'.
BTW that is the Declaration of Independance the 13 states declared over England. That change of govt you highlighted was referring to them. Here is the whole thing:
Really?
As I suggested earlier, maybe you should read it again:
...That WHENEVER any form of government becomes destructive to these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new government...
...But WHEN a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such government, and to provide new guards for their future security.
quote:Every freedom loving American would pray For FREEDOM..the hell with what it takes to get there.
"Live Free or DIE" ought to MEAN something....but to the cowards, the wimps, the Quislings...it means NOTHING.
Bring on the million man traitorous army.
Let us see if they can hold ground against the most determined enemy they ever faced... an AMERICAN , fighting for REAL freedom.not the hoked up wars of aggression and empire.
The Vietnamese handed us our buttcan and showed us the door.
Clouder..
quote:Originally posted by Highball
quote:Every freedom loving American would pray For FREEDOM..the hell with what it takes to get there.
"Live Free or DIE" ought to MEAN something....but to the cowards, the wimps, the Quislings...it means NOTHING.
Bring on the million man traitorous army.
Let us see if they can hold ground against the most determined enemy they ever faced... an AMERICAN , fighting for REAL freedom.not the hoked up wars of aggression and empire.
The Vietnamese handed us our buttcan and showed us the door.
Clouder..
Clouder you are right. wsfiredude the Declaration of Independence is referring to England.
wsfiredude the Declaration of Independence is referring to England.
Yes, it is;
It is also referring to any future tyrannical government:
...That WHENEVER any form of government becomes destructive to these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new government...
...But WHEN a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such government, and to provide new guards for their future security.
quote:Originally posted by Highball
quote:Every freedom loving American would pray For FREEDOM..the hell with what it takes to get there.
"Live Free or DIE" ought to MEAN something....but to the cowards, the wimps, the Quislings...it means NOTHING.
Bring on the million man traitorous army.
Let us see if they can hold ground against the most determined enemy they ever faced... an AMERICAN , fighting for REAL freedom.not the hoked up wars of aggression and empire.
The Vietnamese handed us our buttcan and showed us the door.
Clouder..
With only a bit of help from the Russians and Chinese. In addition to the fact that the Viets had been at war against "someone" for decades.
quote:Originally posted by whiteclouder
quote:Originally posted by Highball
quote:Every freedom loving American would pray For FREEDOM..the hell with what it takes to get there.
"Live Free or DIE" ought to MEAN something....but to the cowards, the wimps, the Quislings...it means NOTHING.
Bring on the million man traitorous army.
Let us see if they can hold ground against the most determined enemy they ever faced... an AMERICAN , fighting for REAL freedom.not the hoked up wars of aggression and empire.
The Vietnamese handed us our buttcan and showed us the door.
Clouder..
Clouder you are right. wsfiredude the Declaration of Independence is referring to England.
Select-fire...you really need to work on your reading comprehension skills. It is not...and the writings of our forefathers make that very clear.
BTW...Clouder was referring to how insane the Feds would be to fight the American people...(I think)...that's what I took from it anyway.
quote:Originally posted by select-fire
quote:Originally posted by whiteclouder
quote:Originally posted by Highball
quote:Every freedom loving American would pray For FREEDOM..the hell with what it takes to get there.
"Live Free or DIE" ought to MEAN something....but to the cowards, the wimps, the Quislings...it means NOTHING.
Bring on the million man traitorous army.
Let us see if they can hold ground against the most determined enemy they ever faced... an AMERICAN , fighting for REAL freedom.not the hoked up wars of aggression and empire.
The Vietnamese handed us our buttcan and showed us the door.
Clouder..
Clouder you are right. wsfiredude the Declaration of Independence is referring to England.
Select-fire...you really need to work on your reading comprehension skills. It is not...and the writings of our forefathers make that very clear.
BTW...Clouder was referring to how insane the Feds would be to fight the American people...(I think)...that's what I took from it anyway.
ECC you better go back to school. Who do you think they were referring to in the Declaration of Independence? geesh..
More words of wisdom:
Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of Liberty.
- Thomas Jefferson
"A nation of well informed men who have been taught to know and prize the rights which God has given them cannot be enslaved. It is in the region of ignorance that tyranny begins."
- Benjamin Franklin
"... God forbid we should ever be twenty years without such a rebellion. The people cannot be all, and always, well informed. The part which is wrong will be discontented, in proportion to the importance of the facts they misconceive. If they remain quiet under such misconceptions, it is lethargy, the forerunner of death to the public liberty.... And what country can preserve its liberties, if its rulers are not warned from time to time, that this people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms. The remedy is to set them right as to the facts, pardon and pacify them. What signify a few lives lost in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time, with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is its natural manure."
- Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 (C.J. Boyd, Ed., 1950)
"Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is argument of tyrants. It is the creed of slaves."
- William Pitt in the House of Commons November 18, 1783
Can't wait to see how you twist and distort these words.....
quote:Originally posted by Duce1
The real difference in our beliefs is that I think for all Americans not just myself .
Where most others think of them self first and no other.
I think " WE " and not " ME " .
Which is EXACTLY why you will never be a rugged individualist...like our forefathers were.
Your rugged individualist will die alone and hungry. Our forefathers were definately NOT individualists; they shared, helped and sacrificed with and for the group---always. The Constitution
is and always has been about WE the people, not ME the citizen. It guarantees OUR rights granted by God. One NATION under God, not me and my shadow.
Clouder..
1. "..and will obey all orders"
2. "..and will obey all lawful orders"
How is the oath worded? Anybody remember? I can't recall, back when I was sent to Vietnam to fight for big business interests (spoon fed 'Vietnamese Freedom'). Best, Joe
EDIT
Thanks, Don (post response further down this string). Best, Joe
quote:Originally posted by ECC
quote:Originally posted by Duce1
The real difference in our beliefs is that I think for all Americans not just myself .
Where most others think of them self first and no other.
I think " WE " and not " ME " .
Which is EXACTLY why you will never be a rugged individualist...like our forefathers were.
You rugged individualists will die alone and hungry. Our forefathers were definately NOT individualists; Clouder..
Wrong; on both statements.
Does the oath that every GI has to take at enlistment read:
1. "..and will obey all orders"
2. "..and will obey all lawful orders"
How is the oath worded? Anybody remember? I can't recall, back when I was sent to Vietnam to fight for big business interests (spoon fed 'Vietnamese Freedom'). Best, Joe
From:
http://www.military.com/Recruiting/Content/0,13898,rec_step08_swearing_in,,00.html
The Oath of Enlistment (for enlistees):
"I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God."
The Oath of Office (for officers):
"I, _____ (SSAN), having been appointed an officer in the Army of the United States, as indicated above in the grade of _____ do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign or domestic, that I will bear true faith and allegiance tot he same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservations or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office upon which I am about to enter; So help me God."
One must assume that the enlisted oath, with the '..according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice.' is stating lawful orders rather than all orders. The 'support and defend the Constitution of the United States...' also confirms the following of only lawful orders, not to mention the goings on at Nuremberg.
Brad Steele
We have lost the battle before it even began .
All I can say will you put down your differences if the time comes and work with the man to your left and the man to your right ?
Will you ?
Does it matter if that man is willing to fight for freedom if he is black , white , red or yellow . A Northerner or Southerner or rich or poor ?
It is time to re-focus our dream and blame the real problem not each other .
The battle lines are being drawn as we set back and debate the outcome before the battle is fought .
Your time is growing short .
quote:Originally posted by ECC
quote:Originally posted by select-fire
quote:Originally posted by whiteclouder
quote:Originally posted by Highball
quote:Every freedom loving American would pray For FREEDOM..the hell with what it takes to get there.
"Live Free or DIE" ought to MEAN something....but to the cowards, the wimps, the Quislings...it means NOTHING.
Bring on the million man traitorous army.
Let us see if they can hold ground against the most determined enemy they ever faced... an AMERICAN , fighting for REAL freedom.not the hoked up wars of aggression and empire.
The Vietnamese handed us our buttcan and showed us the door.
Clouder..
Clouder you are right. wsfiredude the Declaration of Independence is referring to England.
Select-fire...you really need to work on your reading comprehension skills. It is not...and the writings of our forefathers make that very clear.
BTW...Clouder was referring to how insane the Feds would be to fight the American people...(I think)...that's what I took from it anyway.
ECC you better go back to school. Who do you think they were referring to in the Declaration of Independence? geesh..
You clearly have a VERY limited understanding of our nation's founding...along with the writings of our forefathers. Your reading comprehension skills are not the best either.
quote:Originally posted by ECC
quote:Originally posted by select-fire
There are hard times coming. People will GET THEIR CHOICE;
Follow the Beast;
Follow the Constitution.
You DON'T GET TO DO BOTH.it is an utter impossibility.
Speak for yourself Select. HB has it right...and I'm one of those GI's who has fought for our freedoms.
That is the idolatry.
A double minded man is unstable in all of his ways.
Are you referring to me or Select-fire? If you are referring to me, you could not be more off base...but considering the fact that we cannot debate "religion" here, it'll have to be done through email...should you chose to do so.
Are you referring to me or Select-fire? If you are referring to me, you could not be more off base...but considering the fact that we cannot debate "religion" here, it'll have to be done through email...should you chose to do so.
How can you debate religion, Eric; you are wrong and will always be so.
Clouder..
quote:Originally posted by ECC
Are you referring to me or Select-fire? If you are referring to me, you could not be more off base...but considering the fact that we cannot debate "religion" here, it'll have to be done through email...should you chose to do so.
How can you debate religion, Eric; you are wrong and will always be so.
Clouder..
If you believe so, you had better hope you are right.
I have attempted to point out where "we" went wrong and how "we" win back our right. I have been shouted down by you and the flock, because it's ALL or Nothing with you fellas. You view Heller as a loss, while I see it as a step in the right direction.
We don't and probably never will see eye to eye. If you notice, I don't go into attack mode until you or another of your flock launches an electronic slam my way. Or, as of late, YOU lump me into a group in one of your posts and I feel like setting things straight.
Interesting bunch you fellas are. Some think the Supreme Court are wrong because they don't like the rulings of the Court. This isn't anything new. There is always a side that will disagree with any ruling. The problem as I see it is that this is a Constitutional Republic with fixed procedures and many of the flock don't like the way "things" have been going.
Too bad the flock isn't the majority (or even the majority in the small amount of voters that actually vote). Then you could have it your way.
As another poster already said, this country isn't about you or me (the individual), it's about all of us (society or the "collective" as you like to call it). That's the way it is and always has been. Perhaps you should try to get used to it.
quote:Originally posted by Highball
The 'ices' of the country COULD be performing a valuable service...were they so inclined.
"This is where the Constitution was abridged...HERE is how to get it back on track".
Oddly enough, that does not seem to be his message at all. No, he prefers to attempt to tear down the few men who find the present situation intolerable and criminal.
We look around at the devastation wrought by the fascists/communists , elected by apathetic, ignorant, uncaring masses and grow sick to heart.
He merely attacks those of us with a dream...the dream of the Founders.
It does not MATTER that that dream was soiled, nearly in the instance of birth...the fact remains, it brought the greatest freedom to the greatest number of people ever in History !!
The Constitution did not soil ITSELF.rotten corrupt MEN soiled it. Sometime read up on George Washington...you will get an education.PROVIDED you read something besides government propaganda.
The force of the gutted remains, here today, STILL holds the elites and the power-mad in (ever loosening) chains...or the purging fields would long ago have visited America,
The force of the Constitution has held those killing fields to isolated incidents.Waco, Ruby Ridge, Kent State.but those chains on the power-mad are falling away before our very eyes.
There are hard times coming. People will GET THEIR CHOICE;
Follow the Beast;
Follow the Constitution.
You DON'T GET TO DO BOTH.it is an utter impossibility.
As another poster already said, this country isn't about you or me (the individual), it's about all of us (society or the "collective" as you like to call it). That's the way it is and always has been. Perhaps you should try to get used to it
THEREIN lies the crux ..the very HEART...of the difference between you and I.
The Constitution was written precisely to PROTECT the individual AGAINST the `majority'.in ALL things.
The Constitution was intended to deprive the majority their tyranny against isolated individuals that Society did not agree with.as LONG as the individual lived according to the Constitution.
I see no reason to embrace corruption, greed, and cowardice MERELY because the great mass of Society finds it acceptable.
Nor do I find it comforting when the Supreme Court finds AGAINST the clear wording of the Constitution.merely because YOU do.
You may find it acceptable for 51 percent of the population to vote to throw me in jail because I wear a blue shirt on Monday. That does not make it Constitutional.EVEN if the Supreme Court finds in favor of that 51 percent.
This comes back to FOUR simple words ;
"Shall Not Be Infringed".
I don't give a damn WHAT the supreme court says is `Constitutional' (Heller, reasonable restrictions) They are merely the tool of insane power-mad scumbags.
Get used to it.
What the 'majority' WANTS is irrelevant unless it passes Constitutional muster...and a corrupted Court is NOT the final answer. Sorry about that for you and your comfort.
we could win a war against our military if we all joined together to defeat them but I wonder how many would be willing to make that commitment and how many others would be willing to sacrefice their own lives with the same fervor the seem to have when it comes to sending our boys overseas to fight.
you know our government is not going to change it's path, today they are making a show of scolding Ben Beirnanke for his mishandling the economy but it's just for looks because they are sure to re-appoint him for 4 more years.
How can anyone be expected to help you and your ilk when you insist on blurting out tripe like the above?
.....the right of the people (that's the collective, big fella). Odd it doesn't say person.
quote:Originally posted by Highball
quote:o bad the flock isn't the majority (or even the majority in the small amount of voters that actually vote). Then you could have it your way.
As another poster already said, this country isn't about you or me (the individual), it's about all of us (society or the "collective" as you like to call it). That's the way it is and always has been. Perhaps you should try to get used to it
THEREIN lies the crux ..the very HEART...of the difference between you and I.
The Constitution was written precisely to PROTECT the individual AGAINST the `majority'.in ALL things.
The Constitution was intended to deprive the majority their tyranny against isolated individuals that Society did not agree with.as LONG as the individual lived according to the Constitution.
I see no reason to embrace corruption, greed, and cowardice MERELY because the great mass of Society finds it acceptable.
Nor do I find it comforting when the Supreme Court finds AGAINST the clear wording of the Constitution.merely because YOU do.
You may find it acceptable for 51 percent of the population to vote to throw me in jail because I wear a blue shirt on Monday. That does not make it Constitutional.EVEN if the Supreme Court finds in favor of that 51 percent.
This comes back to FOUR simple words ;
"Shall Not Be Infringed".
I don't give a damn WHAT the supreme court says is `Constitutional' (Heller, reasonable restrictions) They are merely the tool of insane power-mad scumbags.
Get used to it.
What the 'majority' WANTS is irrelevant unless it passes Constitutional muster...and a corrupted Court is NOT the final answer. Sorry about that for you and your comfort.
I neither NEED...nor WANT the help of a weak reed like you, ice.
Men are needed today...not beast lovers.
Originally posted by Highball
quote:The 'ices' of the country COULD be performing a valuable service...were they so inclined.
"This is where the Constitution was abridged...HERE is how to get it back on track".
Originally posted by Highball
quote:I neither NEED...nor WANT the help of a weak reed like you, ice.
Men are needed today...not beast lovers.
quote:o bad the flock isn't the majority (or even the majority in the small amount of voters that actually vote). Then you could have it your way.
As another poster already said, this country isn't about you or me (the individual), it's about all of us (society or the "collective" as you like to call it). That's the way it is and always has been. Perhaps you should try to get used to it
THEREIN lies the crux ..the very HEART...of the difference between you and I.
The Constitution was written precisely to PROTECT the individual AGAINST the `majority'.in ALL things.
The Constitution was intended to deprive the majority their tyranny against isolated individuals that Society did not agree with.as LONG as the individual lived according to the Constitution.
I see no reason to embrace corruption, greed, and cowardice MERELY because the great mass of Society finds it acceptable.
Nor do I find it comforting when the Supreme Court finds AGAINST the clear wording of the Constitution.merely because YOU do.
You may find it acceptable for 51 percent of the population to vote to throw me in jail because I wear a blue shirt on Monday. That does not make it Constitutional.EVEN if the Supreme Court finds in favor of that 51 percent.
This comes back to FOUR simple words ;
"Shall Not Be Infringed".
I don't give a damn WHAT the supreme court says is `Constitutional' (Heller, reasonable restrictions) They are merely the tool of insane power-mad scumbags.
Get used to it.
What the 'majority' WANTS is irrelevant unless it passes Constitutional muster...and a corrupted Court is NOT the final answer. Sorry about that for you and your comfort.
When is your finger pointing going to end and you do something ?
Anything ?
Show me your the man that you preach and want to be ?
Actually, YOUR reading comprehension is so lacking it is pathetic.
I reiterate ;
You, being a smart fella, COULD be an invaluable asset.WERE you to suddenly deny the Beast and take up the cudgel for the Constitution and Bill of Rights.
You will not, you simply CANNOT...because I believe that strength of character does not reside in you.
I AM DOING something, duce...I am educating the ignorant. Feel anything..yet ?
Sadly, many will NEVER understand..and as time goes forward, it is increasingly clear you are one of those.
quote:When is your finger pointing going to end and you do something ?
I AM DOING something, duce...I am educating the ignorant. Feel anything..yet ?
Sadly, many will NEVER understand..and as time goes forward, it is increasingly clear you are one of those.
And clearly you are not a leader that some seek !
Your words echo in a garbage can .
Tell a man he is doing wrong and you will only get resentment .
Show a man he is doing wrong and he will follow you .
Now one day you might get the hint that you have failed at so miserably so far .
quote:When is your finger pointing going to end and you do something ?
I AM DOING something, duce...I am educating the ignorant. Feel anything..yet ?
Sadly, many will NEVER understand..and as time goes forward, it is increasingly clear you are one of those.
Those that CAN'T, educate.
Leaders will arise from the smoking ruins of this civilization..and they will carry death and destruction to the front doorsteps of the misleaders that advance THEIR agendas at the expense of everybody else.
Watch...CAREFULLY..those professing to be 'leaders'. Leaders are MADE...not self elected.
Those 'leaders' you so desperately seek WILL become known...WHEN IT IS TIME.
The REST of us NEED no leaders...in order to speak the truth.
Never pretended to be a 'leader'.
Leaders will arise from the smoking ruins of this civilization..and they will carry death and destruction to the front doorsteps of the misleaders that advance THEIR agendas at the expense of everybody else.
Watch...CAREFULLY..those professing to be 'leaders'. Leaders are MADE...not self elected.
Those 'leaders' you so desperately seek WILL become known...WHEN IT IS TIME.
The REST of us NEED no leaders...in order to speak the truth.
I am so glad you need no leader , as for speaking the truth when are you going to start ?
When are you going to take your blame as well ?
When are you going to quit being the beast that you claim others to be ?
When are you going to be a part of the solution and not the problem ?
And most of all when are " YOU " going to do something ?
I will wait until your smoke and mirrors plan blows up and you give real solutions and do something .
And do not claim to be educating others as what your doing as anyone knows that is not in your plan .