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Winchester Model 94, 55, & 64 Survey update

2456715

Comments

  • Bert H.Bert H. Member, Moderator Posts: 11,274 ******
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by big trucker
    Bert, full s/n is 1386057. yes it does have the flat band.Didn't know manufacture date. It was my fathers gun, born 11-11-1946. Cool!


    Thank you for the update[:)]. The gun is no more than 3-4 months older than he is[8D].
  • toadtowntoadtown Member Posts: 11 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I have a 94, sn 1524815. It has the checked buttplate and is marked -30WCF as seems appropiate for its number. The barrel band is flat. It appears all correct escept for the part which elevates the rear sight blade, which part is simply a flat piece with notches in it, no checkered part sticking out the end.
  • Bert H.Bert H. Member, Moderator Posts: 11,274 ******
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by toadtown
    I have a 94, sn 1524815. It has the checked buttplate and is marked -30WCF as seems appropiate for its number. The barrel band is flat. It appears all correct escept for the part which elevates the rear sight blade, which part is simply a flat piece with notches in it, no checkered part sticking out the end.


    Hello toadtown,

    Your Model 94 flat-band was manufactured in 1948. Can you post (or send me) a picture of the rear sight elevator?
  • eastbankeastbank Member Posts: 4,215
    edited November -1
    model 64 in 30wcf #1575428,with lyman tang sight mounted. with minor blueing wear,but had sling stud put in butt stock. eastbank.
  • Bert H.Bert H. Member, Moderator Posts: 11,274 ******
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by eastbank
    model 64 in 30wcf #1575428,with lyman tang sight mounted. with minor blueing wear,but had sling stud put in butt stock. eastbank.


    Your Model 64 was manufactured in the early part of the year 1949. Is the receiver drilled & tapped for a peep sight?
  • eastbankeastbank Member Posts: 4,215
    edited November -1
    yes it,s drilled and tapped for a receiver type peep sight. eastbank.
  • Bert H.Bert H. Member, Moderator Posts: 11,274 ******
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by eastbank
    yes it,s drilled and tapped for a receiver type peep sight. eastbank.


    Thanks[:)]. It is exactly as I expected, and perfectly standard.
  • myky653myky653 Member Posts: 11 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Hello, I have a Win.30-30 serial no 2156510 my Dad bought it on when he was in the military stationed in Japan in 1950's in the PX on base.
  • eastbankeastbank Member Posts: 4,215
    edited November -1
    thanks, eastbank.
  • Bert H.Bert H. Member, Moderator Posts: 11,274 ******
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by myky653
    Hello, I have a Win.30-30 serial no 2156510 my Dad bought it on when he was in the military stationed in Japan in 1950's in the PX on base.


    Hello Mike,

    Your Model 94 was manufactured in the very early months of the year 1956. It should have the flat checkered steel butt plate, and the receiver drilled & tapped for a peep sight.

    Thank you for the information[:)].
  • CapnMidnightCapnMidnight Member Posts: 8,520
    edited November -1
    Bert,
    Two old 94s for your survey
    marked 25-35 WCF
    serial #285035
    1 magazine band dovetailed into bottom of barrel, old style concave butt plate, 26" barrel

    marked 30 WCF
    serial #82302
    Magazine, butt plate and barrel band and lenth are the same. Both are standard rifles with standard wood.
    Hope this helps.
    W.D.
  • SageSage Member Posts: 367
    edited November -1
    Two more for you Bert #1 ; 1256061 32 W.S. Lined buttplate milled barrel band #2 1427964 30 W.C.F. checkered buttplate flat barrel band
  • Bert H.Bert H. Member, Moderator Posts: 11,274 ******
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Sage
    Two more for you Bert #1 ; 1256061 32 W.S. Lined buttplate milled barrel band #2 1427964 30 W.C.F. checkered buttplate flat barrel band


    Thank you very much for the information. I have one question for you concerning serial 1256061... does it have a "W" stamped on the bottom of the receiver between the serial number and the lever?
  • Bert H.Bert H. Member, Moderator Posts: 11,274 ******
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by CapnMidnight
    Bert,
    Two old 94s for your survey
    marked 25-35 WCF
    serial #285035
    1 magazine band dovetailed into bottom of barrel, old style concave butt plate, 26" barrel

    marked 30 WCF
    serial #82302
    Magazine, butt plate and barrel band and lenth are the same. Both are standard rifles with standard wood.
    Hope this helps.
    W.D.


    Do you have a Cody letter for either one of these guns?
  • CapnMidnightCapnMidnight Member Posts: 8,520
    edited November -1
    No letter, they came through Dans shop for cleaning and a rear sight elevator replacement on one. We are making an effort to record all of the info on old Winchesters that come through. Just trying to help out. Your survey has helped us answer alot of questions for customers, and helps in buying and trading. Knowledge is a good tool.
    W.D.
  • Bert H.Bert H. Member, Moderator Posts: 11,274 ******
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by CapnMidnight
    No letter, they came through Dans shop for cleaning and a rear sight elevator replacement on one. We are making an effort to record all of the info on old Winchesters that come through. Just trying to help out. Your survey has helped us answer alot of questions for customers, and helps in buying and trading. Knowledge is a good tool.
    W.D.


    Great... every bit of information helps, and I really appreciate your interest in my on going survey and any information you can provide.

    Please contact me at [email protected] as I believe that I have something you and Dan will be interested in.
  • SageSage Member Posts: 367
    edited November -1
    Yes Bert it does have the W stamp. I had always assumed that it stood for Winchester, what does it mean?
  • Bert H.Bert H. Member, Moderator Posts: 11,274 ******
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Sage
    Yes Bert it does have the W stamp. I had always assumed that it stood for Winchester, what does it mean?


    It means that it was factory refinished prior to being shipped and sold. During the time frame your Model 94 Carbine was made, Winchester was struggling with a new "improved" bluing type, and many guns subsequently failed inspection (quality control) after initial finishing. Those that failed inspection were rejected, and sent back for refinishing. Winchester stamped a "W" on the bottom of the frame to indicate that fact.
  • SageSage Member Posts: 367
    edited November -1
    Two more I had in the safe same era...1220095 32-W.S.- milled bb lined bp has the W, 1452535 32-W.S.- flat bb checkerd bp no W and thank you for all the information. Best regards
  • Bert H.Bert H. Member, Moderator Posts: 11,274 ******
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Sage
    Two more I had in the safe same era...1220095 32-W.S.- milled bb lined bp has the W, 1452535 32-W.S.- flat bb checkerd bp no W and thank you for all the information. Best regards


    Thank you very much for the additional information[:)]. Would it be possible for you to send me a clear picture of your "W" marked guns? I do not own one with the "W" mark to use as an example in this topic string, and I would like to post a picture for reference purposes.

    edit: I forgot to mention, the DOMs are 1940 and 1947 respectively for your carbines.
  • schintzieschintzie Member Posts: 129 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Hello Bert,

    Model 94
    Serial number 1545518
    -32 W.S.-
    Flat barrel band
    Checkered steel buttplate
    No receiver sight holes

    Model 94
    Serial number 1612264
    -30 W.C.F.-
    Milled barrel band
    Checkered steel buttplate
    No receiver sight holes

    Model 94
    Serial number 1788098
    -30-30 WIN.-
    Milled barrel band
    Original buttplate replaced with a Pachmayr recoil pad long ago.
    Has a Lyman No. 66A receiver sight installed, rear sight dovetail filled with a Marble's blank.
    Short foreend wood
    (This one is a shooter and still gets a lot of use.[:)])

    Model 55
    Serial number 9922
    -30 WC.F.-
    Steel buttplate with horizontal lines (as it should)
    No receiver sight holes (not messed with)
  • Bert H.Bert H. Member, Moderator Posts: 11,274 ******
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by schintzie
    Hello Bert,

    Model 94
    Serial number 1545518 DOM is 1948
    -32 W.S.-
    Flat barrel band
    Checkered steel buttplate
    No receiver sight holes

    Model 94
    Serial number 1612264 DOM is 1949
    -30 W.C.F.-
    Milled barrel band
    Checkered steel buttplate
    No receiver sight holes

    Model 94
    Serial number 1788098 DOM is 1951
    -30-30 WIN.-
    Milled barrel band
    Original buttplate replaced with a Pachmayr recoil pad long ago.
    Has a Lyman No. 66A receiver sight installed, rear sight dovetail filled with a Marble's blank. The receiver sight was a special order option in 1951, but became a standard option in 1952.
    Short foreend wood
    (This one is a shooter and still gets a lot of use.[:)])

    Model 55
    Serial number 9922 DOM is 1927
    -30 WC.F.-
    Steel buttplate with horizontal lines (as it should)
    No receiver sight holes (not messed with)



    Thank you very much for the information. I inserted the DOM and other information above.
  • toadtowntoadtown Member Posts: 11 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Bert H.
    quote:Originally posted by toadtown
    I have a 94, sn 1524815. It has the checked buttplate and is marked -30WCF as seems appropiate for its number. The barrel band is flat. It appears all correct escept for the part which elevates the rear sight blade, which part is simply a flat piece with notches in it, no checkered part sticking out the end.


    Hello toadtown,

    Your Model 94 flat-band was manufactured in 1948. Can you post (or send me) a picture of the rear sight elevator?
  • CapnMidnightCapnMidnight Member Posts: 8,520
    edited November -1
    Bert,
    Two more that went through our gun show saterday.
    Model 94 SRC
    Serial #774368
    30 WCF
    Rifle butt plate

    Model 94 Carbine
    Serial #2064092
    30-30 Win
    Metal checkered butt plate
    Round barrel bands

    W.D.
  • toadtowntoadtown Member Posts: 11 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Bert H.
    Originally posted by toadtown
    I have a 94, sn 1524815. It has the checked buttplate and is marked -30WCF as seems appropiate for its number. The barrel band is flat. It appears all correct escept for the part which elevates the rear sight blade, which part is simply a flat piece with notches in it, no checkered part sticking out the end.


    Hello toadtown,

    Your Model 94 flat-band was manufactured in 1948. Can you post (or send me) a picture of the rear sight elevator?

    I have some photos to post but I am not a computer programmer or software designer. That being the case, there does not seem to be any way for me to post a photo on this forum. I read the faqs but got no help from them. If you would like to tell me how to do it I would love to.

    Regards;

    David Jackson[img][/img]
  • Bert H.Bert H. Member, Moderator Posts: 11,274 ******
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by toadtown
    quote:Originally posted by Bert H.
    Originally posted by toadtown
    I have a 94, sn 1524815. It has the checked buttplate and is marked -30WCF as seems appropiate for its number. The barrel band is flat. It appears all correct escept for the part which elevates the rear sight blade, which part is simply a flat piece with notches in it, no checkered part sticking out the end.


    Hello toadtown,

    Your Model 94 flat-band was manufactured in 1948. Can you post (or send me) a picture of the rear sight elevator?

    I have some photos to post but I am not a computer programmer or software designer. That being the case, there does not seem to be any way for me to post a photo on this forum. I read the faqs but got no help from them. If you would like to tell me how to do it I would love to.

    Regards;

    David Jackson[img][/img]




    Hello David,

    Please read the information in this topic - http://forums.gunbroker.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=259294

    It explains how to post pictures on this forum.
  • jls49jls49 Member Posts: 7 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Bert
    I have a model 64 serial #1092229 30WCF with butt plate you show it is not drilled and tapped
    John
  • Bert H.Bert H. Member, Moderator Posts: 11,274 ******
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by jls49
    Bert
    I have a model 64 serial #1092229 30WCF with butt plate you show it is not drilled and tapped
    John


    Hello John,

    First, thank you very much for the information. I do have two questions;

    1. Is your Model 64 a Carbine (20-inch barrel)?
    2. Does it have a bolt mounted peep sight?
  • jls49jls49 Member Posts: 7 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Burt it has a 24 inch barrel and it does not have a bolt mounted peep sight. I think the buck horn sight is a replacement
    John
  • Bert H.Bert H. Member, Moderator Posts: 11,274 ******
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by jls49
    Burt it has a 24 inch barrel and it does not have a bolt mounted peep sight. I think the buck horn sight is a replacement
    John


    Can you post (or send me) a picture of the rear sight (and left side of the receiver)?

    Edit: I forgot to add... your Model 64 was one of the last few made in the year 1933. Serial number 1092328 was the last Model 94/64 made in the year 1933.
  • SageSage Member Posts: 367
    edited November -1
    m9cabd.jpgBert, taken with my phone not sure how they would turn out. Hope they help.
  • Bert H.Bert H. Member, Moderator Posts: 11,274 ******
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Sage
    m9cabd.jpgBert, taken with my phone not sure how they would turn out. Hope they help.


    Thanks... can you get a clear photo with a regular digital camera? I would really appreciate clear well lit photos for my article.
  • hunt mannhunt mann Member Posts: 54 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Hello Bert. If you are interested I have a very early 94 i believe it was produced in 1898 Has been in my family for as long as i can trace it back 70 80 years maybe more. don't know much about it. The finnish is almost a silver color from years of wear although it has been stored safely and unused for at least 50 years.I am sure that in it's early years it was well used. seems to be all original. I would apriciate anny info you could give me. Info * follows. mod 94 30/30 sn# 111746 spring loaded Marbles peep on tang crescent butt plate .This rifle works perfectly and is a nice unaltered piece of American history. Thanks. hunt mann
  • Bert H.Bert H. Member, Moderator Posts: 11,274 ******
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by hunt mann
    Hello Bert. If you are interested I have a very early 94 i believe it was produced in 1898 Has been in my family for as long as i can trace it back 70 80 years maybe more. don't know much about it. The finnish is almost a silver color from years of wear although it has been stored safely and unused for at least 50 years.I am sure that in it's early years it was well used. seems to be all original. I would apriciate anny info you could give me. Info * follows. mod 94 30/30 sn# 111746 spring loaded Marbles peep on tang crescent butt plate .This rifle works perfectly and is a nice unaltered piece of American history. Thanks. hunt mann


    Hello Charles,

    Winchester Model 1894 serial number 111746 was manufactured in April of the year 1901.

    Based on the fact that it has a crescent butt plate, it appears to be a Sporting Rifle. If you can post pictures of your Winchester, I can provide you with a better overall evaluation of the gun.

    Marbles sights were real common on the turn-of-the-century Model 1894s.

    If you are interested, the Cody Firearms Museum research department can provide you with a Factory letter ($60) which will give you the exact date that it was received in the warehouse, the original configuration, and the date that it was sold (shipped) - http://www.bbhc.org/firearms/records.cfm
  • hunt mannhunt mann Member Posts: 54 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Thanks Bert.I will try to post some pics latter today. thanks again Chuck
  • hunt mannhunt mann Member Posts: 54 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Bert here are the pics I told you that I would send of my 94. This rifle has never been polished or buffed out. Only lightly wiped down. I forgot to mention the rear barrel sight is missing. Was the tang peep sight generally factory installed or after market? If so is that why there is no rear barrel sight or is it just missing. Although I do not intend on selling I would still like to know the value of this rifle for insurance purposes. Thanks appreciate the info



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  • Bert H.Bert H. Member, Moderator Posts: 11,274 ******
    edited November -1
    Hello Chuck,

    I am sorry to have to tell you this, but your old Winchester is a long way from being original. It is what some collectors refer to as a "frankenstein" Winchester.

    Specifically;

    1. The barrel is much newer than the receiver. As I previously mentioned, the serial number tells us that the receiver was manufactured in April of 1901. The barrel was manufactured sometime after early 1950 (the rolled marked/stamped information on the barrel is the identifying clue). Winchester did not change the caliber stamp from "30 W.C.F." to "30-30 WIN" until 1950.

    2. The front barrel band (flat-band) was only used in the years 1946 - 1948.

    3. The butt stock is not original to the gun and is the style used on the Sporting Rifle versus a Saddle Ring Carbine (which is what this gun originally was). Note how poorly it fits at the receiver, and that the wood is noticeably undersized to the steel.

    4. Somebody ground off the saddle ring stud (the large round flat spot on the left rear side of the receiver frame), and damaged the other screw just below it.

    5. The original barrel mounted rear sight is missing, and the Marbles tang sight is most likely not original either. If you dismount the tang sight, you will find that the upper tang is marked

    MODEL 1894
    -WINCHESTER-
    PAT.AUG.21.1894

    So to summarize this for you, what you have is Model 1894 SRC that was pieced together using Model 94 parts with different production dates, and it has been subjected to a grinder or file. It now has essentially zero collector value, and is now purely a "shooter". As such, I highly encourage you to take it out and use it as such. Sorry the news turned out on the grim side.
  • hunt mannhunt mann Member Posts: 54 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Ouucchh. that stings. but the truth often hurts.this is why i asked you .the person that had this gun for many years has passed and i wish i could have gotten this info from him.Obviously the info that i had gotten was tainted .but not intentionally . thanks for this painful bit of truth. it still will have sentimental value to me. Chuck.
  • Bert H.Bert H. Member, Moderator Posts: 11,274 ******
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by hunt mann
    Ouucchh. that stings. but the truth often hurts.this is why i asked you .the person that had this gun for many years has passed and i wish i could have gotten this info from him.Obviously the info that i had gotten was tainted .but not intentionally . thanks for this painful bit of truth. it still will have sentimental value to me. Chuck.


    I was sure that it would not exactly be pleasant news for you, but I strongly believe in being upfront and frank with everyone when I post a reply to a question. Treasure the gun for what it is... a piece of family history. Again, take it out and shoot it on a regular basis... if you hunt, take it with you on a few trips.
  • hunt mannhunt mann Member Posts: 54 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Thanks Burt.I will do that.
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