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Winchester Model 94, 55, & 64 Survey update

145791015

Comments

  • Bert H.Bert H. Member, Moderator Posts: 11,274 ******
    edited November -1
    Hello Lance,

    Actually, I do need it... along with any other serial number that is in the 1,000,000 to 2,700,000 range.

    Thanks for posting the information[:)]
  • zinkzink Member Posts: 6,456 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Forgot, checkered steel butt plate, no ring.

    Lance
  • tgellatlytgellatly Member Posts: 1 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Hi Bert. I am new to 94's and to Forum's as well. I hope I am doing this correctly. I also Emailed you the following information but after reading all the other posts, I thought others might find the information useful, (or not..LOL)

    My "new to me" gun is:
    S/N 1394209
    94-30 W.C.F.-
    Checkered steel butt plate
    Blank top plate, only one screw at/near the tip
    Not drilled for peep site
    No PCMR or Martial
    Proof Steel
    NO saddle ring
    Flat band

    I hope this informatiuon is useful to you and perhaps to others who may be researching their own firearm

    Tim G.
  • Bert H.Bert H. Member, Moderator Posts: 11,274 ******
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by tgellatly
    Hi Bert. I am new to 94's and to Forum's as well. I hope I am doing this correctly. I also Emailed you the following information but after reading all the other posts, I thought others might find the information useful, (or not..LOL)

    My "new to me" gun is:
    S/N 1394209
    94-30 W.C.F.-
    Checkered steel butt plate
    Blank top plate, only one screw at/near the tip
    Not drilled for peep site
    No PCMR or Martial
    Proof Steel
    NO saddle ring
    Flat band

    I hope this informatiuon is useful to you and perhaps to others who may be researching their own firearm

    Tim G.


    Hello Tim,

    Yes indeed, it is quite useful, and thank you very much for posting it[:)].

    Based on the serial number, your Model 94 was manufactured in the late months of the year 1946 (most likely October). It should be a "flat-band" carbine, and based on your desription, it is a standard catalog gun.
  • tommix2tommix2 Member Posts: 5 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    BERT,

    Here is the info on the rifle that I am thinking about buying from my friend.

    1. 1610299
    2. 30 W.C.F.
    3. After market Pachmayr
    4. No tang markings
    5. Yes, Factory Drilled, missing screws
    6. No markings
    7. "Winchester Proof Steel"
    8. No saddle ring
    9. N/A
    10. N/A
    11. N/A, milled band
    12. N/A 9-1/8" forend

    It also has a stamp on the bottom of the receiver just in front of the trigger which reads BF. The B is very clear but the F is somewhat of a guess.

    I would like to send you pics for evaluation but not sure how to attach them.
    I want to be up front with my friend and pay a fair price that both of us are comfortable with. Any help would be appreciated.

    Thank you for your efforts in this survey.

    Kelly
  • Bert H.Bert H. Member, Moderator Posts: 11,274 ******
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by tommix2
    BERT,

    Here is the info on the rifle that I am thinking about buying from my friend.

    1. 1610299
    2. 30 W.C.F.
    3. After market Pachmayr
    4. No tang markings
    5. Yes, Factory Drilled, missing screws
    6. No markings
    7. "Winchester Proof Steel"
    8. No saddle ring
    9. N/A
    10. N/A
    11. N/A, milled band
    12. N/A 9-1/8" forend

    It also has a stamp on the bottom of the receiver just in front of the trigger which reads BF. The B is very clear but the F is somewhat of a guess.

    I would like to send you pics for evaluation but not sure how to attach them.
    I want to be up front with my friend and pay a fair price that both of us are comfortable with. Any help would be appreciated.

    Thank you for your efforts in this survey.

    Kelly


    Hello Kelly,

    Your friend has a mid-year 1949 vintage Model 94. Unfortunately, it is very unlikely that the drilled & tapped holes in the receiver are factory original, or that the Pachmayr recoil pad is original.

    The "BF" near the trigger is an inspection stamp that was stamped on the gun during the assembly and fitting process.

    Because of the probable non-factory alterations, it forever relegates that old Model 94 to being a "shooter" grade gun, and the value is most likely in the $250 - $300 range.
  • tommix2tommix2 Member Posts: 5 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Thank you Bert for your feedback. Good luck with the continuing survey.

    Kelly
  • Bert H.Bert H. Member, Moderator Posts: 11,274 ******
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by tommix2
    Thank you Bert for your feedback. Good luck with the continuing survey.

    Kelly


    Thank you as well[:)].
  • adkjaqadkjaq Member Posts: 3 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I have a 30 SRC, # 931306. carbine butt, unfired I believe, 30wcf
  • Bert H.Bert H. Member, Moderator Posts: 11,274 ******
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by adkjaq
    I have a 30 SRC, # 931306. carbine butt, unfired I believe, 30wcf


    Your SRC was manufactured in early August of 1921, and there is no such thing as an "unfired" Winchester. Winchester fired the gun at least twice with proof loads, and then another 6-8 shots to set the sights.
  • adkjaqadkjaq Member Posts: 3 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Another 30 WCF, SRC 1013904
  • Bert H.Bert H. Member, Moderator Posts: 11,274 ******
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by adkjaq
    Another 30 WCF, SRC 1013904


    Hello, and thanks for the information. The serial number indicates that it was manufactured in January of 1928.

    I assume that it has the standard style carbine butt plate, but which type of upper tang stamp does it have? It could be either a Type-5 or a Type-6.
  • middleforkmiddlefork Member Posts: 1 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Hi Bert.

    Model 94
    #1491059
    25-35 W.C.F.
    Not martial marked
    Flat Band
    standard sights
    recvr not drilled/tapped
    flat checked buttplate
    blank top tang, single screw
    straight cut serrated hammer
    have not checked date on bottom of barrel

    I am interesting in knowing if the factory changed bluing solution or application methods pre-War, during or post War. I ask this because there seems to be nice blue retention on pre War band/magazine tubes while the flat band period seem to have more brown/plum flat bands/magazine tubes.
    Thanks for all your work and information here.
    Lee
  • Bert H.Bert H. Member, Moderator Posts: 11,274 ******
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by middlefork
    Hi Bert.

    Model 94
    #1491059
    25-35 W.C.F.
    Not martial marked
    Flat Band
    standard sights
    recvr not drilled/tapped
    flat checked buttplate
    blank top tang, single screw
    straight cut serrated hammer
    have not checked date on bottom of barrel

    I am interesting in knowing if the factory changed bluing solution or application methods pre-War, during or post War. I ask this because there seems to be nice blue retention on pre War band/magazine tubes while the flat band period seem to have more brown/plum flat bands/magazine tubes.
    Thanks for all your work and information here.
    Lee


    Hello Lee,

    Serial number 1491059 was manufactured in the Spring of 1948. It should have a "48" marked barrel.

    Winchester changed the bluing formula circa 1939.
  • Mahely4.5Mahely4.5 Member Posts: 3 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I went to see a 94 today at a pawn shop. The owner said it is a pre WW2, but after researching the serial number turns out to be 1942.

    Serial number 1207204
    Carbine
    Milled Band
    Type 6 tang stamp, two screws
    .32 Win Special
    No saddle ring
    Can't say about proof marks,

    Question. Are tang marks not indicative of older models than 1942?
  • Bert H.Bert H. Member, Moderator Posts: 11,274 ******
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Mahely4.5
    I went to see a 94 today at a pawn shop. The owner said it is a pre WW2, but after researching the serial number turns out to be 1942.

    Serial number 1207204
    Carbine
    Milled Band
    Type 6 tang stamp, two screws
    .32 Win Special
    No saddle ring
    Can't say about proof marks,

    Question. Are tang marks not indicative of older models than 1942?



    The owner is correct... serial number 1207204 is indeed a Pre-War manufactured gun... April 1939 to be exact. This is another case where Madis' serial number listing is out-to-lunch.

    Thanks for posting the information[:)].

    Edit: In reviewing my data, that Carbine should have a Type-7 upper tang stamp (the one without the dashes), and it quite possibly has a "W" below the serial number... can you please confirm both for me?
  • Mahely4.5Mahely4.5 Member Posts: 3 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Hello again. I will check that out tomorrow if it is still there. Big question though. If I end up buying the gun, I would love to know where to confirm the data that says it is indeed a pre-war model? Upon resale (if ever) people will probably go to the blue book of gun values and the serial number will still say 1942! I would need some better source. Owner also claims the barrel has the manufacture date and it states 1939 on it (although it requires dissassembly and I did not make him do it).

    Thanks again
  • Bert H.Bert H. Member, Moderator Posts: 11,274 ******
    edited November -1
    In the not so distant future, I will publish a new (corrected) Winchester serialization book. Hopefully, other sources (like the Blue Book) will correct the information they have falsely published at that time. In the mean time, you can always refer someone to this forum (or to me), and I will confirm the DOM.
  • Mahely4.5Mahely4.5 Member Posts: 3 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I went back today and checked it out. Yes, indeed, type 7 tang inscription (without the lines) and also a W underneath the serial number.
  • Bert H.Bert H. Member, Moderator Posts: 11,274 ******
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Mahely4.5
    I went back today and checked it out. Yes, indeed, type 7 tang inscription (without the lines) and also a W underneath the serial number.


    Just as I suspected... thanks for the follow-up information[:)].
  • chwchw Member Posts: 3 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I sent info earlier on a 1946 ser. no. 94. I thought I would include an earlier one just for info. ser. no. 910800 saddle ring carbine with ladder sight and lyman tang sight 30wfc. 90 plus percent no marks on wood bluing wear on reciver almost plumb color now.
  • Bert H.Bert H. Member, Moderator Posts: 11,274 ******
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by chw
    I sent info earlier on a 1946 ser. no. 94. I thought I would include an earlier one just for info. ser. no. 910800 saddle ring carbine with ladder sight and lyman tang sight 30wfc. 90 plus percent no marks on wood bluing wear on reciver almost plumb color now.


    It is an August 1920 vintage SRC. The tang sight was most likely added after the fact, but that does not hurt anything. It sounds like a good one[^].
  • yellowdog52yellowdog52 Member Posts: 53 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    OK here goes

    1. 537095
    2. 30 W.C.F no model 94 preceeding it
    3. concave steel
    4. type 5 but no &FGN after
    5. not drilled and tapped
    6. not martially marked
    7. nickle steel barrel
    8. no saddle ring

    1. 1388364
    2.model 94 - 30 W.C.F. -
    3. checkered steel
    4. blank tang
    5. not drilled for peep
    6. not martially marked
    7. proof steel
    8. no saddle ring
    9. no W
    11. flat band

    1. 1142465
    2. model 94 - winchester trademark - 30 W.C.F. -
    3. serrated steel
    4. type 6
    5. not drilled for peep
    6. not martially marked
    7. proof steel
    8. no saddle ring

    1. 1107790
    2. winchester trademark - 30 W.C.F. -
    3. carbine steel
    4. type 6
    5. not drilled for peep
    6. not martially marked
    7. proof steel
    8. no saddle ring

    1. 2469226
    2. winchester trademark - model - 94 - 32 win spl -
    3. checkered steel
    4. blank tang
    5. drilled and tapped for peep
    6. not martially marked
    7. proof steel
    8. no saddle ring

    Very interesting stuff. Please comment on anything of note with these guns.
  • Bert H.Bert H. Member, Moderator Posts: 11,274 ******
    edited November -1
    Please see my comments in blue, and thank you very much for posting the information[:)]

    quote:Originally posted by yellowdog52
    OK here goes

    1. 537095 (manufactured January 1912)
    2. 30 W.C.F no model 94 preceeding it
    3. concave steel (most likely it is a crescent "rifle" butt)
    4. type 5 but no &FGN after (it is a Type-3 upper tang marking)
    5. not drilled and tapped
    6. not martially marked
    7. nickle steel barrel
    8. no saddle ring (because it most likely is a Sporting Rifle versus a Carbine)


    1. 1388364 (manufactured in the second half of the year 1946)
    2.model 94 - 30 W.C.F. -
    3. checkered steel
    4. blank tang
    5. not drilled for peep
    6. not martially marked
    7. proof steel
    8. no saddle ring
    9. no W
    11. flat band
    Completely standard for its vintage


    1. 1142465 (manufactured in September of 1937)
    2. model 94 - winchester trademark - 30 W.C.F. -
    3. serrated steel
    4. type 6
    5. not drilled for peep
    6. not martially marked
    7. proof steel
    8. no saddle ring
    Completely standard for its vintage


    1. 1107790 (manufactured in May of 1936)
    2. winchester trademark - 30 W.C.F. -
    3. carbine steel
    4. type 6
    5. not drilled for peep
    6. not martially marked
    7. proof steel
    8. no saddle ring
    Completely standard for its vintage


    1. 2469226 [blue](manufactured in early 1961)
    2. winchester trademark - model - 94 - 32 win spl -
    3. checkered steel
    4. blank tang
    5. drilled and tapped for peep
    6. not martially marked
    7. proof steel
    8. no saddle ring
    Completely standard for its vintage[/blue]

    Very interesting stuff. Please comment on anything of note with these guns.
  • heywoodheywood Member Posts: 7 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    hi bert i have a mod94 win in 32 special ser#2353690..it is drilled for a peep sight it had a recoil pad on that i removed hope to find the correct metal butt plate at agun show,it has md stamped in front of the trigger .32 win spl on the barrel winchester proof steel also ..thanx for a very interesting site
  • Bert H.Bert H. Member, Moderator Posts: 11,274 ******
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by heywood
    hi bert i have a mod94 win in 32 special ser#2353690..it is drilled for a peep sight it had a recoil pad on that i removed hope to find the correct metal butt plate at agun show,it has md stamped in front of the trigger .32 win spl on the barrel winchester proof steel also ..thanx for a very interesting site


    Thank you for posting the information on your mid-year 1959 vintage Model 94, and good luck in finding a replacement butt plate for it[:)].
  • Rex MahanRex Mahan Member Posts: 529 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I have a plate
  • heywoodheywood Member Posts: 7 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    would you like to sell it
  • Bert H.Bert H. Member, Moderator Posts: 11,274 ******
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by heywood
    would you like to sell it


    Please take this off the forum... offers to sell or buy are verbotin on the forums.
  • kylewkylew Member Posts: 95 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Bert, Have one more. Ser# 2034413, -MODEL-94-30-30-WIN, Proof steel, checkered butt plate, receiver drilled for peep site, No tang marking, Milled bands, short forearm, hooded front site, std 20" carbine, full length tube, finish 85% some pitting, bore good. Have a good day. Kyle
  • Bert H.Bert H. Member, Moderator Posts: 11,274 ******
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by kylew
    Bert, Have one more. Ser# 2034413, -MODEL-94-30-30-WIN, Proof steel, checkered butt plate, receiver drilled for peep site, No tang marking, Milled bands, short forearm, hooded front site, std 20" carbine, full length tube, finish 85% some pitting, bore good. Have a good day. Kyle


    Hello Kyle,

    It is a standard Carbine, and it was manufactured late in the year 1953.

    Thank you very much for posting the information[:)].
  • kylewkylew Member Posts: 95 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Bert, An unusual one Ser.# 457660, take down rifle, 30 W.C.F., nickel steel, 19" oct barrel,type 3 tang markings, crescent butt stock, deluxe wood, good bore and tight action, a short barrel but I think it was special ordered this way, no evidence of any changes except one tragic one. It was re blued some time ago as the hammer, trigger, and lever are also blue instead of case color. Keep up the good work. Kyle
  • kylewkylew Member Posts: 95 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Bert, PS I am trying to get a hold of a few more. Will keep you in the loop. Kyle
  • Bert H.Bert H. Member, Moderator Posts: 11,274 ******
    edited November -1
    Hello Kyle,

    Serial 457660 went through the Polishing Room very late in the month of May, 1910.

    I personally would be very suspicious of a 19-inch octagon barrel.
  • kylewkylew Member Posts: 95 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Bert, You may be correct about the 19" barrel. I did compare it to another take down and the two dove tails are the correct distance from the muzzle. It would have to been cut off more than 4" to remove the old dove tails. Anyway I did not pay big bucks for it because of the refinish. Either way it's a neat gun and I liked it. I'm still learning. Thanks for your input. Kyle
  • Bert H.Bert H. Member, Moderator Posts: 11,274 ******
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by kylew
    Bert, You may be correct about the 19" barrel. I did compare it to another take down and the two dove tails are the correct distance from the muzzle. It would have to been cut off more than 4" to remove the old dove tails. Anyway I did not pay big bucks for it because of the refinish. Either way it's a neat gun and I liked it. I'm still learning. Thanks for your input. Kyle


    You are very welcome[:)].
  • zagman_420zagman_420 Member Posts: 7 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I dont know much about these guns but yesterday I picked this one up for $10 figured even if I cant do anything with it so what it was only $10! haha the SN is 1188700 its in pretty bad shape as you can see. Just wondering what year it was made and if it would be worth fixing. thanks for your time.


    p.s. im not interested in fixing it up to sell just wondering how much it might cost to make shootable

    DSCF0405.jpg

    DSCF0406.jpg

    DSCF0408.jpg

    DSCF0409.jpg

    DSCF0410.jpg

    And yes i got it from a tweeker!!!
  • Bert H.Bert H. Member, Moderator Posts: 11,274 ******
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by zagman_420
    I dont know much about these guns but yesterday I picked this one up for $10 figured even if I cant do anything with it so what it was only $10! haha the SN is 1188700 its in pretty bad shape as you can see. Just wondering what year it was made and if it would be worth fixing. thanks for your time.


    p.s. im not interested in fixing it up to sell just wondering how much it might cost to make shootable

    And yes i got it from a tweeker!!!


    The serial number tells me that it was made in late August of 1938.

    The condition is extremely poor, and I very much doubt that it could ever be resurrected into a "safe" to fire gun again. It is simply a curio now.
  • zagman_420zagman_420 Member Posts: 7 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    That's about what I figured. Thanks again
  • rec0546rec0546 Member Posts: 14 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    survey input ....
    mdl 94 s/n: 1595339
    caliber marking: 30 W.C.F.
    butt plate: flat checkered steel
    tang marking: blank
    factory drilled for peep sight: no
    US martial or PCMR: no
    Proof steel marking: yes
    saddle ring: no
    barrel band: milled

    Question: I have a model 12 made in 1940 (serial 824389) that has the "W" stamp below the serial number. Do you think it means the same thing as on the model 94 (factory refinish)?
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