In order to participate in the GunBroker Member forums, you must be logged in with your GunBroker.com account. Click the sign-in button at the top right of the forums page to get connected.
I hope the 75% of soldiers that wouldn't fire on American citizens would fire on the 25% that would do it if ordered. I also hope they would perform their Constitutional duty and shoot the officers who gave the order.
quote:Originally posted by Woodsmaster
I hope the 75% of soldiers that wouldn't fire on American citizens would fire on the 25% that would do it if ordered. I also hope they would perform their Constitutional duty and shoot the officers who gave the order.
American soldiers already proved that they have no problems killing unarmed civilians including children and women. Why do you think that they will make exception for you? They know that no matter what atrocities they commit the tribunal will clear them.
How many soldiers got punished for Ruby Ridge and for Wako? Think about that, friend. Remember, that you may be next.
I guess this would be easy to answer if I was single and lived alone...I would try my best to make Rambo proud.
Most of us though have a wife and kids...I'm not going to start shooting up the place so my kids are taken away. I have my move already all planned out. I'm stocked ready to go in the vast northern forests of Saskatchewan.
Parasites.
The kindest word I can use.
Perfectly eager to lap up the goodies.and perfectly willing to run at the first `Boo'.
No fire in the belly ..no ideals in their souls. Freedom don't mean nothing to them.unless its' free.
Can there be an emptier soul then one that proclaims, proudly .."No country worth dying over".can there ?
I believe that I was wrong.for I have said for years that we are the run-out, degraded seeds of those giants of men.the Founders.
No.for the cowards, the slackers, the shirkers, the parasites were present then.and breeding is something they do well.
Always, the viruses and diseased multiply to overwhelm the healthy body.
And still the men left struggle to carry them on their backs..even as the life blood is drained from them by their parasites.
Is this country worth getting killed over? No. No country is.
If things turn like this. I will just... LEAVE. I have a profession in medical field. I know 3 languages. I already have a green card in Canada. If there is a major crackdown here. I will simply move to Canada. Along with my savings. Just move from US banks to Canadian.
I will rent all my 4 properties here and take ALL money to Canada.
Make sure that USA doesn't get a SINGLE CENT from me other then property taxes. After I leave, outside of my 4 properties, the rest can go to hell. As long as I live here, I want this place to have strong economy and strong civil rights and that the constitution is upheld. Thats what I bought into when I came here.
If I am forced to leave. I don't care what happens to this place after I am outta here. I will not risk my life and my skin for guns.
However, I will vote with my feet and whatever money I have.
And y'all have fun and when you will once again whine about how bad things got - look in the mirror: YOU VOTED FOR REAGAN. YOU VOTED FOR BOTH BUSHes. Enjoy, have fun. Hope you have plenty of vaseline.
I am working, paying taxes, already sending some of my money accross the border. Getting ready to run if things get nasty. As far as my guns, I will sink them in Great Lakes, before I give them to the pigs.
ICE T Was right.
This is pretty simple. I have 6 rifles alone at home. All semi auto. I am a reasonably good shooter. Outshot my neighbourh who is an infantry man back from Iraq. So, I have the guns. I know how to use them. But if SHTF, I will pretty much run. My life is only one. Not worth risking for this country. Or for any country. I will grab my wife, my friends, my guns and we will run for Canada. They may not have much freedoms there, but I just dont' want to be arbitrary shot for being either "anti government" or "not enough of a patriot of constitution", you folks, who talk loud, you have fun. Have fun being shot by your own army, being put into concentration camps by your own government. Your country is headed into the direction where it will be even worse then Nazi Germany or USSR. YOU PERMITTED IT TO HAPPEN.
Enjoy.
In my country we have a saying "It is too late to drink medicine once your liver had fallen off." If we will say that the liver of this country is constitution - then not only has it been fallen off, a passing dog named Reagan had pissed all over it with his "greed first" credo, and the rats known as Bush clan had dragged it off
Dangerous,
You seem to have a common theme permeating your posts. R-U-N. Where do you think we'd be if men like Washington, Jefferson, Henry, Revere, Adams, Paine, and others would have done as you have suggested, and chose the path of least resistance?
Want to leave/run? Go ahead. No one will stop you. Those of us who choose to stay and weather the situation would prefer to keep company with the courageous, not cowards. Have kids / want kids? Do you believe their future is worth taking a stand? I do. Do you believe in anything worth taking a stand for, or is your main concern always me, myself, and I? This country was founded by selfless men, not selfish men.
I take issue with you on another statement. "As far as my guns, I will sink them in Great Lakes, before I give them to the pigs.
ICE T Was right." Ice T (real POS IMO)? Good choice of someone to admire. Someone who, by his own admission in his "music", suggests the wanton slaughter of peace officers. Yeah, there's some bad cops, just like there are bad doctors, teachers, soldiers, firefighters, etc. But there are some good ones too, and many of whom you will find on this forum. Many of whom would not run, but would take a stand for the Constitution. You need to think before you spout off your rubbish.
quote:Originally posted by Highball
Parasites.
The kindest word I can use.
Perfectly eager to lap up the goodies.and perfectly willing to run at the first `Boo'.
No fire in the belly ..no ideals in their souls. Freedom don't mean nothing to them.unless its' free.
Can there be an emptier soul then one that proclaims, proudly .."No country worth dying over".can there ?
I believe that I was wrong.for I have said for years that we are the run-out, degraded seeds of those giants of men.the Founders.
No.for the cowards, the slackers, the shirkers, the parasites were present then.and breeding is something they do well.
Always, the viruses and diseased multiply to overwhelm the healthy body.
And still the men left struggle to carry them on their backs..even as the life blood is drained from them by their parasites.
Hey, we all know that you are rambo, that you are certified ninja and special forces sniper commando. We all know that you stop bullets with your teeth and can break a tank with your mighty fist.
In words. When bunch of armored and armed to the teeth mercenaries, hired killers who enjoy their jobs that you call SWAT or Police, or Army for that matter will come to you at the moment that their masters at Standart Oil and Haliburton will tell them and that you know it. You will tuck your tail and run. Because you know what? Rich control the government, the media and the law. Instead of seing you as a revolutionary you will be quickly painted as "insane communist fascist nazist terrorist, Al quaeda agent and an ultra right christian extremist" - see the lies they told about Waco.
You know that. Buddy, I am calling you bluff. You talk tough, but you ain't gonna do crap. Being a mall ninja is easy. Being an arm chair commando is easy. When a bunch of jack booted Gestapo Thugs called Police come after you, you will tuck your tail and run.
All right, 't'...I will give you the benefit of doubt,here.
Every word you say about me personally is true.
How does that change the truth of the words I speak ?
Because I personally am a craven coward.how does that alter, delete, or destroy the Second Amendment ?
Coward I may well be.but this coward will stand squarely upon the Second Amendment and call you what you are ...a traitor to America.
I will call the jack booted thugs exactly what THEY are.traitors to America.
At least.while being a craven coward ..(makes no difference if I am or not, you want company).what I say will not be used to weaken or destroy the central pillar of a free society.
Unlike you and the NRA and millions of other gun owners out there.
quote:Originally posted by Highball
All right, 't'...I will give you the benefit of doubt,here.
Every word you say about me personally is true.
How does that change the truth of the words I speak ?
Because I personally am a craven coward.how does that alter, delete, or destroy the Second Amendment ?
Coward I may well be.but this coward will stand squarely upon the Second Amendment and call you what you are ...a traitor to America.
I will call the jack booted thugs exactly what THEY are.traitors to America.
At least.while being a craven coward ..(makes no difference if I am or not, you want company).what I say will not be used to weaken or destroy the central pillar of a free society.
Unlike you and the NRA and millions of other gun owners out there.
Hey. All I am saying is that I love my guns too. I love them all. From HK91 clone to my SVT40, from my RPK to my Cz82. I love them and I love the FREEDOM of having them. However, when a swat teams comes to my door, armed to the teeth and says "Give up your guns or we cap your *", I will give them up, and hope that they get capped by some gangsta who didn't give up his guns later. I love the freedom to live more then I love my freedom to have guns. You can have a good lives without guns, you can't have a good life when you are in jail or dead.
I would much rather gommint regulate each of the purchases and be on the FBI record as a gun owner, then have no right to have any guns.
Simple as that. We all want to live in Utopia. Where medicine is free and good, jobs are well paid and secure, working week is 32 hours and vacation is 4 weeks. It ain't happening. Period.
You, americans, allowed YOUR country to be in the dumpster it is.
Nothing you can do about it. Nothing I can do about it. Look at yourself in the mirror and repeat a mantra "It is partially my fault". I suggest we organize a third party and do it a legal way.
Sure, I hate cops and BATF and all those meanies. However, I like my life more then I hate them. So I would welcome an organized "constitution" party, or any other party. I ain't playin with you. If something is being organized, maybe my Mr Ron Paul, I would sign up in a sec. But if you want someone to get involved in a firefight with a superior enemy, I am NOT your man.
For those of you that are gun hoe on shooting up the place when they come for your guns, how come the shooting has'nt started? They might not be at your door yet, but your rights are being taken away. If you wait any longer, all you'll have to fight with is your Red Rider.
quote:Originally posted by Dangerous T
quote:Originally posted by Highball
All right, 't'...I will give you the benefit of doubt,here.
Every word you say about me personally is true.
How does that change the truth of the words I speak ?
Because I personally am a craven coward.how does that alter, delete, or destroy the Second Amendment ?
Coward I may well be.but this coward will stand squarely upon the Second Amendment and call you what you are ...a traitor to America.
I will call the jack booted thugs exactly what THEY are.traitors to America.
At least.while being a craven coward ..(makes no difference if I am or not, you want company).what I say will not be used to weaken or destroy the central pillar of a free society.
Unlike you and the NRA and millions of other gun owners out there.
Hey. All I am saying is that I love my guns too. I love them all.
Loving firearms and owning firearms is completely different from supporting America's founding principals of individualism and severely limited government, AKA our Constitutional Republic.
From HK91 clone to my SVT40, from my RPK to my Cz82. I love them and I love the FREEDOM of having them.
Again, loving and owning firearms does NOT equate to understanding and defending an American Citizen's fundamental RIGHT to keep and bear arms.
Your 'freedom' "TO" have them is different from your feeling "OF" the freedom "OF" having them.
Your statement points to a basic lack of understanding, or willful disregard of individual liberty. This is a fundamental difference and a key point in the discussion.
However, when a swat teams comes to my door, armed to the teeth and says "Give up your guns or we cap your *", I will give them up, and hope that they get capped by some gangsta who didn't give up his guns later.
Honestly put, but again this illustrates a clear difference in mindset and places you squarely in the camp of the masses of New Americans.
The "other", "individualist" aka American camp, consists of those willing to stand up for the most fundamental freedom a man has, the right to defense of self, family and against tyranny by government.
I love the freedom to live more then I love my freedom to have guns. You can have a good lives without guns, you can't have a good life when you are in jail or dead.
You already have the freedom to live.
Without the freedom to have firearms, your freedom to live can be taken away without your having the ability to defend it.....get it?
I would much rather gommint regulate each of the purchases and be on the FBI record as a gun owner, then have no right to have any guns.
Another simple lesson, if I may.
If you concede that "gommint" has the just authority to regulate your activities related to firearms and maiintain record of such, then you have conceded that you already have no "right".
What you describe is a "privilege" and once again there is a fundamental difference between a "right" and a "privilege".
This is another example of your complete misunderstanding of American Principals.
Simple as that. We all want to live in Utopia. Where medicine is free and good, jobs are well paid and secure, working week is 32 hours and vacation is 4 weeks. It ain't happening. Period.
You expose yourself again sir.
"We all" do NOT want to live in Utopia.
Free medicine, guaranteed jobs and salary, an established work-week and preset vacation period, ALL equate to a government controlled, Collectivist State.
That is certainly NOT what America was founded upon and NOT what America is meant to be.
Individual responsibility and personal success go hand in hand. Some have what it takes to succeed and some do not. That is life sir.
An "Individualist" Government does not guarantee ANY of the things you mention, nor should it.
Therein lays the problem.
You are at heart a collectivist and you demonstrate a fundamental lack of understanding of what America was meant to be.
You, americans, allowed YOUR country to be in the dumpster it is.
Exactly what nationality are you Dangerous and where is it that you reside?
Nothing you can do about it. Nothing I can do about it. Look at yourself in the mirror and repeat a mantra "It is partially my fault".
Speak for yourself sir.
Education is key to bringing about change, or at least waking up sufficient people to the real situation so that if and when things get ugly enough, they can make informed choices.
Those choices would be to be an American, or be a subject.
I suggest we organize a third party and do it a legal way.
Sorry Dangerous, but any party that you would approve of would NOT be a party of Constitutional Principals. You simply are not freedom-minded and you clearly don't understand the US Constitution and its Bill of Rights.
Don't want or need such as you in any movement I am connected with, but thanks for the offer.[;)]
Sure, I hate cops and BATF and all those meanies.
Sure you do sir.
However, I like my life more then I hate them. So I would welcome an organized "constitution" party, or any other party. I ain't playin with you. If something is being organized, maybe my Mr Ron Paul, I would sign up in a sec.
Once again, you are not wanted or needed in a freedom movement.
You are not freedom-minded and would simply be a "quisling" among men.
But if you want someone to get involved in a firefight with a superior enemy, I am NOT your man.
Speaking for myself, I have no intention, or desire to get in a firefight with representatives of government.
Maintaining our fundamental individual freedoms and the "ability" to do so if it becomes necessary, is the bottom-line.
As to you not being our man.....well Dangerous, you never were.
quote:Originally posted by Highball
Parasites.
The kindest word I can use.
Perfectly eager to lap up the goodies.and perfectly willing to run at the first `Boo'.
No fire in the belly ..no ideals in their souls. Freedom don't mean nothing to them.unless its' free.
Can there be an emptier soul then one that proclaims, proudly .."No country worth dying over".can there ?
I believe that I was wrong.for I have said for years that we are the run-out, degraded seeds of those giants of men.the Founders.
No.for the cowards, the slackers, the shirkers, the parasites were present then.and breeding is something they do well.
Always, the viruses and diseased multiply to overwhelm the healthy body.
And still the men left struggle to carry them on their backs..even as the life blood is drained from them by their parasites.
An absolutely spot-on and classic analogy Highball.
quote:Originally posted by Dangerous T
quote:Originally posted by Woodsmaster
I hope the 75% of soldiers that wouldn't fire on American citizens would fire on the 25% that would do it if ordered. I also hope they would perform their Constitutional duty and shoot the officers who gave the order.
"American soldiers already proved that they have no problems killing unarmed civilians including children and women. Why do you think that they will make exception for you? They know that no matter what atrocities they commit the tribunal will clear them.
How many soldiers got punished for Ruby Ridge and for Wako? Think about that, friend. Remember, that you may be next."
Help me out here, it seems you have a lot of knowledge on the subject, what U.S. military units were involved in Ruby Ridge, and Waco (or WAKO as you call it)? Please call out the unit, command and numbers. This is new info to me, I am always willing to learn for the real experts.
quote:Originally posted by Dangerous T
Would I mind capping some cop? Not at all. Frankly, I think that most cops are bullies and sadists. The shooting of an unarmed man at his own bachelor party recently proves it. Would I mind getting shot? Yes.
Is this country worth getting killed over? No. No country is.
If things turn like this. I will just... LEAVE. I have a profession in medical field. I know 3 languages. I already have a green card in Canada. If there is a major crackdown here. I will simply move to Canada. Along with my savings. Just move from US banks to Canadian.
I will rent all my 4 properties here and take ALL money to Canada.
Make sure that USA doesn't get a SINGLE CENT from me other then property taxes. After I leave, outside of my 4 properties, the rest can go to hell. As long as I live here, I want this place to have strong economy and strong civil rights and that the constitution is upheld. Thats what I bought into when I came here.
If I am forced to leave. I don't care what happens to this place after I am outta here. I will not risk my life and my skin for guns.
However, I will vote with my feet and whatever money I have.
And y'all have fun and when you will once again whine about how bad things got - look in the mirror: YOU VOTED FOR REAGAN. YOU VOTED FOR BOTH BUSHes. Enjoy, have fun. Hope you have plenty of vaseline.
I am working, paying taxes, already sending some of my money accross the border. Getting ready to run if things get nasty. As far as my guns, I will sink them in Great Lakes, before I give them to the pigs.
ICE T Was right.
Dude ... You NEED to MOVE NOW!!! Get the H%$@ out of my wonderful country!!!! You belong in China!!!
"I don't care what happens to this place after I am outta here. I will not risk my life and my skin for guns."
"If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen."
"The liberties of our country, the freedom of our civil Constitution, are worth defending at all hazards; and it is our duty to defend them against all attacks. We have received them as a fair inheritance from our worthy ancestors: they purchased them for us with toil and danger and expense of treasure and blood, and transmitted them to us with care and diligence. It will bring an everlasting mark of infamy on the present generation, enlightened as it is, if we should suffer them to be wrested from us by violence without a struggle, or to be cheated out of them by the artifices of false and designing men."
quote:Originally posted by trstone
Okay....Let's get down to where the short hairs grow.
Simple question: Suppose the Feds decided to go British on us, and said "No more firearms, period. Turn them all in, or we'll confiscate them." Would you turn them in, or, when they came to your door, would you fight? And by "fight" I mean exactly that---gun in hand, willing and ready to shoot. Not some legal wrangling in the fixed courts which would naturally side with the Feds.
I don't want to hear any theoretical or philosophical discussions about "how it couldn't happen" or "the Government could never do that anyway" or "it's a silly question because (whatever)"; I want to get an idea as to what fraction of the gun-owning population would be willing to go all the way if faced with the BATF Brownshirts hammering on their door and saying "Hand it over, peasant." I was inspired to this line of inquiry after hearing that, in a poll of U.S. soldiers, more than 25% said they'd be perfectly willing to shoot American civilians if ordered by their officers to do so....
Until they come home on leave and find their families nailed to barn doors. They might for a while, until they find out what "WE" do to them and their officers. [}:)]
i know what i believe and what is right. on this topic i have no personal experiance so i cannot say what i would do one way or the other. all i can say is id hope im a strong enough person to do what i i know is right.
I would fight if the government said i couldn't have guns. have a firearm is my right as an American citizen. I love to go out and shoot them but more guns are a Defense against enemys even if that enemy is our own government.
I do hope it will vener come down to a battle within our borders
When push comes to shove (and make no mistake, eventually it will be it in 2 years or 20) we have to be ready to put it all on the line for what we believe, or else we're just a bunch of emasculated windbags puffing our chests out in the comfortable anonimity of cyberspace. I remember back in the 90's with ol' Slick Willy in the White House, and reports of Black Helicopters and all that came out, I kept an ALICE pack full of anything I thought I may need if I had to move at a moments notice. If Obama wins the election, be prepared for a new assault on our firearms rights that would make the Clinton years pale in comparison.
There is already a war against gun owners, and the first shots were fired on a religious compound in Waco, TX. That to me is the day it began. Before that was all the precursory skirmishes (i.e. Ruby Ridge) that lead up to a total outbreak of hostilities.. That ATF lead cluster@#$% was all based on lies, purely for the purpose of showing how Amerika needed to ban those evil "assault weapons", and they came up with every falsehood they could think of to foist such a travesty on the American public. All the basic premises for invading the Davidians ranch have been shown to be utter fabrication, so it just goes to prove that the "gummint" can and will shott it's own citizens to advance their agenda.
I for one, will shoot back if I'm given the opportunity and not just "cleansed"..........
I find no fault with your stand. Welcome aboard, friend.
It will be a betch of a river of blood..but freedom lies on the other bank.
Those inmortal words.."Give me liberty or give me death" sings in the heart of every true American...and is hollow rhetoric to most New Americans today.
I grew up with people of a similar faith to those people in Waco, they are very well armed but nothing like what the media said these people were.
I have always thought Waco was a hogwash dill.
I have also read that Jim Jones's "Jonestown," was funded by spooks as a pocket study of MKULTRA on the group mentality. The CIA had men inside the whole time and they did not drink any of the cool aid. If the mass suicide was just a disposalby the company or jones lost his mind completely I do not know.
There are a lot of us who took an oath to protect and defend the Constitution from enemies, both foreign and domestic. It may not be a long fight, or a fair one, but it will be one they wish they hadn't started. In short: Yes!
One question in addition would be: Are we going to organize into actual "militia" units as was done in Revolution 1.0, or is everyone going to act indepentdantly and without concert with others of a like mind when version 2.0 happens??
quote:Originally posted by rkba4ever
One question in addition would be: Are we going to organize into actual "militia" units as was done in Revolution 1.0, or is everyone going to act indepentdantly and without concert with others of a like mind when version 2.0 happens??
Some of us, that have deep concerns about the state of the country, allready ARE in an organized militia, OR have allready formed small groups of "friends".
i think we would be much better off forming into organized militias. without organizing into units with others we would risk "friendly fire" with those who we should be fighting with and hurting our cause. my only concern would be could i trust the others to defend me as i would them. i personally can think of mabye 2 or 3 people i could count on outside my family. that said anyone here from CT??lol
Several good points are being made here. I for one would be in a catch 22. I don't want to give up my guns and I am going to be the LEO who has to come to my friends homes and ask them to give theirs up. I know I can't give you an honest answer on this.
quote:Originally posted by badhabithobby
Several good points are being made here. I for one would be in a catch 22. I don't want to give up my guns and I am going to be the LEO who has to come to my friends homes and ask them to give theirs up. I know I can't give you an honest answer on this.
AND WHY WOULD YOU HAVE TO JUST BECAUSE YOU ARE LEO????
quote:Originally posted by badhabithobby
Several good points are being made here. I for one would be in a catch 22. I don't want to give up my guns and I am going to be the LEO who has to come to my friends homes and ask them to give theirs up. I know I can't give you an honest answer on this.
The true law of the land should solve your problem for you. If you still have questions you should reconsider your profession.
Freedom and a submissive populace cannot co-exist.
badhabithobby:quote:Several good points are being made here. I for one would be in a catch 22. I don't want to give up my guns and I am going to be the LEO who has to come to my friends homes and ask them to give theirs up. I know I can't give you an honest answer on this.Catch 22??? EVERYONE, Military or LEO, has the option of refusing to obey an ILLEGAL or Unconstitutional order. As an LEO you may choose to ignore your oath to support and defend but remember, you may do so at your own peril. Not all the peasants have been, nor will be disarmed. The government is very good at instilling fear in public so maybe it's time to turn the tables. If a confiscation were ordered don't think for a minute it would go as well as NO did. Friend or not, you WILL run into people that are unwilling to comply. They may not be as well armed as you or they may be better armed. They may comply or they may not. How many people will you be willing to place in custody and brand them as criminals if they offer resistance? Don't be surprised if you run into someone that TRULY understands what you're doing and would rather be dead than live as a slave of tyranny. You will have to kill them to carry out your orders. How many law-abiding citizens would you be willing to KILL while supporting a confiscation order? Which would you choose if given the choice of supporting the Constitutional RIGHT of a law-abiding citizen/individual to Keep and Bear Arms or possibly dying trying to confiscate weapons in the name of tyrannical government??? Somehow I don't think "To Protect and Serve" includes putting the population at the mercy of criminals or tyrants.
The 2nd Amendment guarantees an individual right to keep and bear arms under the Constitution of the United States, it is no different than any other right. If you are hesitant to fight for that right, consider if you would be willing to give up your right to speak freely or to worship where you please? Would you be willing to give up your right to gather in groups or to be free from cruel and unusual punishment? Would you be willing to have your home searched at anytime for any reason? If your answer is no to any ONE of those questions, then you must be equally prepared to protect your right to keep and bears arms. In spite of politics, it is no different than any other right we cherish in this great nation of ours.
If these events take place, I make a promise to each and every one of you on this board, that there will be a war. There will be a war, if I have to piece one together from scratch all by myself.
And THAT is what it is going to be. Not a 'fight'. Not a 'struggle'. Not even a 'revolution'.
This will be WAR.
The natural state of every creature on this Earth is war, whether that creature be placed here by the grace of God, or if they evolved from a pile of primordial muck.
At that point, gun rights, civil rights, individual freedoms, collective freedoms, nations, politics, God above or even the allmighty dollar itself... none of them will even be the issue. It will be about life and death. Death and life. Killing, surviving, watching others die around you, and even dying yourself.
Some of you people seem to think that you can flee, sit out the battles, watch them on CNN, MSNBC, Fox News or even Al Jazeera, whatever the hell you prefer. There's nowhere to run from war. America hasn't faced that universal truth for 240 years, but that doesn't change the fact that you cannot run from war.
You can run from the battlefields, you can run from the carnage, you can run from the blood, bombs and bullets, but the war will find you. Somehow, in someway, significant or petty, you will be affected by this war, because try as you might you will not be taking everything you hold dear with you.
I've already chosen my reason to fight. I know several people on this board that have done the same. If and WHEN it happens, we can make peace in our souls with what this war can -and will- do to us.
All the rest of you, no matter where you stand, what you choose, or where you go, you WILL be a part of this war. So my advice to every single one of you, whether you will fight or not, is to choose what part you will have in this war. What part your family may have in this war. Choose, and make peace with your choice. But do not think for a moment that there is any way to escape it when it happens.
MK23;
I have nothing to add to your post. Nothing to take away from it.
Save one thing.
The reason to fight is to be LEFT ALONE...for that is the basis of freedom. The freedom from, in other words, being forced to live under laws, rules, regulations, edicts thought to be necessary for 'civilized life'.
Most all actually being nothing more then a means to control people for the power hungry.
quote:Originally posted by Mk23
It will be about life and death. Death and life. Killing, surviving, watching others die around you, and even dying yourself.
Some of you people seem to think that you can flee, sit out the battles, watch them on CNN, MSNBC, Fox News or even Al Jazeera, whatever the hell you prefer. There's nowhere to run from war. America hasn't faced that universal truth for 240 years, but that doesn't change the fact that you cannot run from war.
You can run from the battlefields, you can run from the carnage, you can run from the blood, bombs and bullets, but the war will find you. Somehow, in someway, significant or petty, you will be affected by this war, because try as you might you will not be taking everything you hold dear with you.
I've already chosen my reason to fight. I know several people on this board that have done the same. If and WHEN it happens, we can make peace in our souls with what this war can -and will- do to us.
All the rest of you, no matter where you stand, what you choose, or where you go, you WILL be a part of this war.
Sounds like the rantings of another internet commando and armchair warrior who has never heard a shot fired in anger or served one day in the country's armed forces. It'll sure be nicer on the internet when school starts up again in a few weeks and these kids clear off the forums.
Comments
I hope the 75% of soldiers that wouldn't fire on American citizens would fire on the 25% that would do it if ordered. I also hope they would perform their Constitutional duty and shoot the officers who gave the order.
American soldiers already proved that they have no problems killing unarmed civilians including children and women. Why do you think that they will make exception for you? They know that no matter what atrocities they commit the tribunal will clear them.
How many soldiers got punished for Ruby Ridge and for Wako? Think about that, friend. Remember, that you may be next.
Most of us though have a wife and kids...I'm not going to start shooting up the place so my kids are taken away. I have my move already all planned out. I'm stocked ready to go in the vast northern forests of Saskatchewan.
Sal
The kindest word I can use.
Perfectly eager to lap up the goodies.and perfectly willing to run at the first `Boo'.
No fire in the belly ..no ideals in their souls. Freedom don't mean nothing to them.unless its' free.
Can there be an emptier soul then one that proclaims, proudly .."No country worth dying over".can there ?
I believe that I was wrong.for I have said for years that we are the run-out, degraded seeds of those giants of men.the Founders.
No.for the cowards, the slackers, the shirkers, the parasites were present then.and breeding is something they do well.
Always, the viruses and diseased multiply to overwhelm the healthy body.
And still the men left struggle to carry them on their backs..even as the life blood is drained from them by their parasites.
Is this country worth getting killed over? No. No country is.
If things turn like this. I will just... LEAVE. I have a profession in medical field. I know 3 languages. I already have a green card in Canada. If there is a major crackdown here. I will simply move to Canada. Along with my savings. Just move from US banks to Canadian.
I will rent all my 4 properties here and take ALL money to Canada.
Make sure that USA doesn't get a SINGLE CENT from me other then property taxes. After I leave, outside of my 4 properties, the rest can go to hell. As long as I live here, I want this place to have strong economy and strong civil rights and that the constitution is upheld. Thats what I bought into when I came here.
If I am forced to leave. I don't care what happens to this place after I am outta here. I will not risk my life and my skin for guns.
However, I will vote with my feet and whatever money I have.
And y'all have fun and when you will once again whine about how bad things got - look in the mirror: YOU VOTED FOR REAGAN. YOU VOTED FOR BOTH BUSHes. Enjoy, have fun. Hope you have plenty of vaseline.
I am working, paying taxes, already sending some of my money accross the border. Getting ready to run if things get nasty. As far as my guns, I will sink them in Great Lakes, before I give them to the pigs.
ICE T Was right.
This is pretty simple. I have 6 rifles alone at home. All semi auto. I am a reasonably good shooter. Outshot my neighbourh who is an infantry man back from Iraq. So, I have the guns. I know how to use them. But if SHTF, I will pretty much run. My life is only one. Not worth risking for this country. Or for any country. I will grab my wife, my friends, my guns and we will run for Canada. They may not have much freedoms there, but I just dont' want to be arbitrary shot for being either "anti government" or "not enough of a patriot of constitution", you folks, who talk loud, you have fun. Have fun being shot by your own army, being put into concentration camps by your own government. Your country is headed into the direction where it will be even worse then Nazi Germany or USSR. YOU PERMITTED IT TO HAPPEN.
Enjoy.
In my country we have a saying "It is too late to drink medicine once your liver had fallen off." If we will say that the liver of this country is constitution - then not only has it been fallen off, a passing dog named Reagan had pissed all over it with his "greed first" credo, and the rats known as Bush clan had dragged it off
Dangerous,
You seem to have a common theme permeating your posts. R-U-N. Where do you think we'd be if men like Washington, Jefferson, Henry, Revere, Adams, Paine, and others would have done as you have suggested, and chose the path of least resistance?
Want to leave/run? Go ahead. No one will stop you. Those of us who choose to stay and weather the situation would prefer to keep company with the courageous, not cowards. Have kids / want kids? Do you believe their future is worth taking a stand? I do. Do you believe in anything worth taking a stand for, or is your main concern always me, myself, and I? This country was founded by selfless men, not selfish men.
I take issue with you on another statement. "As far as my guns, I will sink them in Great Lakes, before I give them to the pigs.
ICE T Was right." Ice T (real POS IMO)? Good choice of someone to admire. Someone who, by his own admission in his "music", suggests the wanton slaughter of peace officers. Yeah, there's some bad cops, just like there are bad doctors, teachers, soldiers, firefighters, etc. But there are some good ones too, and many of whom you will find on this forum. Many of whom would not run, but would take a stand for the Constitution. You need to think before you spout off your rubbish.
Parasites.
The kindest word I can use.
Perfectly eager to lap up the goodies.and perfectly willing to run at the first `Boo'.
No fire in the belly ..no ideals in their souls. Freedom don't mean nothing to them.unless its' free.
Can there be an emptier soul then one that proclaims, proudly .."No country worth dying over".can there ?
I believe that I was wrong.for I have said for years that we are the run-out, degraded seeds of those giants of men.the Founders.
No.for the cowards, the slackers, the shirkers, the parasites were present then.and breeding is something they do well.
Always, the viruses and diseased multiply to overwhelm the healthy body.
And still the men left struggle to carry them on their backs..even as the life blood is drained from them by their parasites.
Hey, we all know that you are rambo, that you are certified ninja and special forces sniper commando. We all know that you stop bullets with your teeth and can break a tank with your mighty fist.
In words. When bunch of armored and armed to the teeth mercenaries, hired killers who enjoy their jobs that you call SWAT or Police, or Army for that matter will come to you at the moment that their masters at Standart Oil and Haliburton will tell them and that you know it. You will tuck your tail and run. Because you know what? Rich control the government, the media and the law. Instead of seing you as a revolutionary you will be quickly painted as "insane communist fascist nazist terrorist, Al quaeda agent and an ultra right christian extremist" - see the lies they told about Waco.
You know that. Buddy, I am calling you bluff. You talk tough, but you ain't gonna do crap. Being a mall ninja is easy. Being an arm chair commando is easy. When a bunch of jack booted Gestapo Thugs called Police come after you, you will tuck your tail and run.
Every word you say about me personally is true.
How does that change the truth of the words I speak ?
Because I personally am a craven coward.how does that alter, delete, or destroy the Second Amendment ?
Coward I may well be.but this coward will stand squarely upon the Second Amendment and call you what you are ...a traitor to America.
I will call the jack booted thugs exactly what THEY are.traitors to America.
At least.while being a craven coward ..(makes no difference if I am or not, you want company).what I say will not be used to weaken or destroy the central pillar of a free society.
Unlike you and the NRA and millions of other gun owners out there.
All right, 't'...I will give you the benefit of doubt,here.
Every word you say about me personally is true.
How does that change the truth of the words I speak ?
Because I personally am a craven coward.how does that alter, delete, or destroy the Second Amendment ?
Coward I may well be.but this coward will stand squarely upon the Second Amendment and call you what you are ...a traitor to America.
I will call the jack booted thugs exactly what THEY are.traitors to America.
At least.while being a craven coward ..(makes no difference if I am or not, you want company).what I say will not be used to weaken or destroy the central pillar of a free society.
Unlike you and the NRA and millions of other gun owners out there.
Hey. All I am saying is that I love my guns too. I love them all. From HK91 clone to my SVT40, from my RPK to my Cz82. I love them and I love the FREEDOM of having them. However, when a swat teams comes to my door, armed to the teeth and says "Give up your guns or we cap your *", I will give them up, and hope that they get capped by some gangsta who didn't give up his guns later. I love the freedom to live more then I love my freedom to have guns. You can have a good lives without guns, you can't have a good life when you are in jail or dead.
I would much rather gommint regulate each of the purchases and be on the FBI record as a gun owner, then have no right to have any guns.
Simple as that. We all want to live in Utopia. Where medicine is free and good, jobs are well paid and secure, working week is 32 hours and vacation is 4 weeks. It ain't happening. Period.
You, americans, allowed YOUR country to be in the dumpster it is.
Nothing you can do about it. Nothing I can do about it. Look at yourself in the mirror and repeat a mantra "It is partially my fault". I suggest we organize a third party and do it a legal way.
Sure, I hate cops and BATF and all those meanies. However, I like my life more then I hate them. So I would welcome an organized "constitution" party, or any other party. I ain't playin with you. If something is being organized, maybe my Mr Ron Paul, I would sign up in a sec. But if you want someone to get involved in a firefight with a superior enemy, I am NOT your man.
Sal
quote:Originally posted by Highball
All right, 't'...I will give you the benefit of doubt,here.
Every word you say about me personally is true.
How does that change the truth of the words I speak ?
Because I personally am a craven coward.how does that alter, delete, or destroy the Second Amendment ?
Coward I may well be.but this coward will stand squarely upon the Second Amendment and call you what you are ...a traitor to America.
I will call the jack booted thugs exactly what THEY are.traitors to America.
At least.while being a craven coward ..(makes no difference if I am or not, you want company).what I say will not be used to weaken or destroy the central pillar of a free society.
Unlike you and the NRA and millions of other gun owners out there.
Hey. All I am saying is that I love my guns too. I love them all.
Loving firearms and owning firearms is completely different from supporting America's founding principals of individualism and severely limited government, AKA our Constitutional Republic.
From HK91 clone to my SVT40, from my RPK to my Cz82. I love them and I love the FREEDOM of having them.
Again, loving and owning firearms does NOT equate to understanding and defending an American Citizen's fundamental RIGHT to keep and bear arms.
Your 'freedom' "TO" have them is different from your feeling "OF" the freedom "OF" having them.
Your statement points to a basic lack of understanding, or willful disregard of individual liberty. This is a fundamental difference and a key point in the discussion.
However, when a swat teams comes to my door, armed to the teeth and says "Give up your guns or we cap your *", I will give them up, and hope that they get capped by some gangsta who didn't give up his guns later.
Honestly put, but again this illustrates a clear difference in mindset and places you squarely in the camp of the masses of New Americans.
The "other", "individualist" aka American camp, consists of those willing to stand up for the most fundamental freedom a man has, the right to defense of self, family and against tyranny by government.
I love the freedom to live more then I love my freedom to have guns. You can have a good lives without guns, you can't have a good life when you are in jail or dead.
You already have the freedom to live.
Without the freedom to have firearms, your freedom to live can be taken away without your having the ability to defend it.....get it?
I would much rather gommint regulate each of the purchases and be on the FBI record as a gun owner, then have no right to have any guns.
Another simple lesson, if I may.
If you concede that "gommint" has the just authority to regulate your activities related to firearms and maiintain record of such, then you have conceded that you already have no "right".
What you describe is a "privilege" and once again there is a fundamental difference between a "right" and a "privilege".
This is another example of your complete misunderstanding of American Principals.
Simple as that. We all want to live in Utopia. Where medicine is free and good, jobs are well paid and secure, working week is 32 hours and vacation is 4 weeks. It ain't happening. Period.
You expose yourself again sir.
"We all" do NOT want to live in Utopia.
Free medicine, guaranteed jobs and salary, an established work-week and preset vacation period, ALL equate to a government controlled, Collectivist State.
That is certainly NOT what America was founded upon and NOT what America is meant to be.
Individual responsibility and personal success go hand in hand. Some have what it takes to succeed and some do not. That is life sir.
An "Individualist" Government does not guarantee ANY of the things you mention, nor should it.
Therein lays the problem.
You are at heart a collectivist and you demonstrate a fundamental lack of understanding of what America was meant to be.
You, americans, allowed YOUR country to be in the dumpster it is.
Exactly what nationality are you Dangerous and where is it that you reside?
Nothing you can do about it. Nothing I can do about it. Look at yourself in the mirror and repeat a mantra "It is partially my fault".
Speak for yourself sir.
Education is key to bringing about change, or at least waking up sufficient people to the real situation so that if and when things get ugly enough, they can make informed choices.
Those choices would be to be an American, or be a subject.
I suggest we organize a third party and do it a legal way.
Sorry Dangerous, but any party that you would approve of would NOT be a party of Constitutional Principals. You simply are not freedom-minded and you clearly don't understand the US Constitution and its Bill of Rights.
Don't want or need such as you in any movement I am connected with, but thanks for the offer.[;)]
Sure, I hate cops and BATF and all those meanies.
Sure you do sir.
However, I like my life more then I hate them. So I would welcome an organized "constitution" party, or any other party. I ain't playin with you. If something is being organized, maybe my Mr Ron Paul, I would sign up in a sec.
Once again, you are not wanted or needed in a freedom movement.
You are not freedom-minded and would simply be a "quisling" among men.
But if you want someone to get involved in a firefight with a superior enemy, I am NOT your man.
Speaking for myself, I have no intention, or desire to get in a firefight with representatives of government.
Maintaining our fundamental individual freedoms and the "ability" to do so if it becomes necessary, is the bottom-line.
As to you not being our man.....well Dangerous, you never were.
Parasites.
The kindest word I can use.
Perfectly eager to lap up the goodies.and perfectly willing to run at the first `Boo'.
No fire in the belly ..no ideals in their souls. Freedom don't mean nothing to them.unless its' free.
Can there be an emptier soul then one that proclaims, proudly .."No country worth dying over".can there ?
I believe that I was wrong.for I have said for years that we are the run-out, degraded seeds of those giants of men.the Founders.
No.for the cowards, the slackers, the shirkers, the parasites were present then.and breeding is something they do well.
Always, the viruses and diseased multiply to overwhelm the healthy body.
And still the men left struggle to carry them on their backs..even as the life blood is drained from them by their parasites.
An absolutely spot-on and classic analogy Highball.
Two thumbs up and a hearty "very well said".[;)]
quote:Originally posted by Woodsmaster
I hope the 75% of soldiers that wouldn't fire on American citizens would fire on the 25% that would do it if ordered. I also hope they would perform their Constitutional duty and shoot the officers who gave the order.
"American soldiers already proved that they have no problems killing unarmed civilians including children and women. Why do you think that they will make exception for you? They know that no matter what atrocities they commit the tribunal will clear them.
How many soldiers got punished for Ruby Ridge and for Wako? Think about that, friend. Remember, that you may be next."
Help me out here, it seems you have a lot of knowledge on the subject, what U.S. military units were involved in Ruby Ridge, and Waco (or WAKO as you call it)? Please call out the unit, command and numbers. This is new info to me, I am always willing to learn for the real experts.
Would I mind capping some cop? Not at all. Frankly, I think that most cops are bullies and sadists. The shooting of an unarmed man at his own bachelor party recently proves it. Would I mind getting shot? Yes.
Is this country worth getting killed over? No. No country is.
If things turn like this. I will just... LEAVE. I have a profession in medical field. I know 3 languages. I already have a green card in Canada. If there is a major crackdown here. I will simply move to Canada. Along with my savings. Just move from US banks to Canadian.
I will rent all my 4 properties here and take ALL money to Canada.
Make sure that USA doesn't get a SINGLE CENT from me other then property taxes. After I leave, outside of my 4 properties, the rest can go to hell. As long as I live here, I want this place to have strong economy and strong civil rights and that the constitution is upheld. Thats what I bought into when I came here.
If I am forced to leave. I don't care what happens to this place after I am outta here. I will not risk my life and my skin for guns.
However, I will vote with my feet and whatever money I have.
And y'all have fun and when you will once again whine about how bad things got - look in the mirror: YOU VOTED FOR REAGAN. YOU VOTED FOR BOTH BUSHes. Enjoy, have fun. Hope you have plenty of vaseline.
I am working, paying taxes, already sending some of my money accross the border. Getting ready to run if things get nasty. As far as my guns, I will sink them in Great Lakes, before I give them to the pigs.
ICE T Was right.
Dude ... You NEED to MOVE NOW!!! Get the H%$@ out of my wonderful country!!!! You belong in China!!!
Second I would appease them by giving them the one
revolver I am willing to part with and a single shotgun.
The rest would be buried 6 foot under in sealed containers
under a dead cow along with the ammo.
First they have to prove I have them, ahem one.
Second I would appease them by giving them the one
revolver I am willing to part with and a single shotgun.
The rest would be buried 6 foot under in sealed containers
under a dead cow along with the ammo.
That a primo plan! that way the imperials cant take your guns from you as you cower under a bed.
"I don't care what happens to this place after I am outta here. I will not risk my life and my skin for guns."
"If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen."
"The liberties of our country, the freedom of our civil Constitution, are worth defending at all hazards; and it is our duty to defend them against all attacks. We have received them as a fair inheritance from our worthy ancestors: they purchased them for us with toil and danger and expense of treasure and blood, and transmitted them to us with care and diligence. It will bring an everlasting mark of infamy on the present generation, enlightened as it is, if we should suffer them to be wrested from us by violence without a struggle, or to be cheated out of them by the artifices of false and designing men."
Samuel Adams
Okay....Let's get down to where the short hairs grow.
Simple question: Suppose the Feds decided to go British on us, and said "No more firearms, period. Turn them all in, or we'll confiscate them." Would you turn them in, or, when they came to your door, would you fight? And by "fight" I mean exactly that---gun in hand, willing and ready to shoot. Not some legal wrangling in the fixed courts which would naturally side with the Feds.
I don't want to hear any theoretical or philosophical discussions about "how it couldn't happen" or "the Government could never do that anyway" or "it's a silly question because (whatever)"; I want to get an idea as to what fraction of the gun-owning population would be willing to go all the way if faced with the BATF Brownshirts hammering on their door and saying "Hand it over, peasant." I was inspired to this line of inquiry after hearing that, in a poll of U.S. soldiers, more than 25% said they'd be perfectly willing to shoot American civilians if ordered by their officers to do so....
Until they come home on leave and find their families nailed to barn doors. They might for a while, until they find out what "WE" do to them and their officers. [}:)]
I do hope it will vener come down to a battle within our borders
There is already a war against gun owners, and the first shots were fired on a religious compound in Waco, TX. That to me is the day it began. Before that was all the precursory skirmishes (i.e. Ruby Ridge) that lead up to a total outbreak of hostilities.. That ATF lead cluster@#$% was all based on lies, purely for the purpose of showing how Amerika needed to ban those evil "assault weapons", and they came up with every falsehood they could think of to foist such a travesty on the American public. All the basic premises for invading the Davidians ranch have been shown to be utter fabrication, so it just goes to prove that the "gummint" can and will shott it's own citizens to advance their agenda.
I for one, will shoot back if I'm given the opportunity and not just "cleansed"..........
I find no fault with your stand. Welcome aboard, friend.
It will be a betch of a river of blood..but freedom lies on the other bank.
Those inmortal words.."Give me liberty or give me death" sings in the heart of every true American...and is hollow rhetoric to most New Americans today.
Poor sad sacks that they are....
I have always thought Waco was a hogwash dill.
I have also read that Jim Jones's "Jonestown," was funded by spooks as a pocket study of MKULTRA on the group mentality. The CIA had men inside the whole time and they did not drink any of the cool aid. If the mass suicide was just a disposalby the company or jones lost his mind completely I do not know.
Patrick Henry, March 23rd 1776
One question in addition would be: Are we going to organize into actual "militia" units as was done in Revolution 1.0, or is everyone going to act indepentdantly and without concert with others of a like mind when version 2.0 happens??
Some of us, that have deep concerns about the state of the country, allready ARE in an organized militia, OR have allready formed small groups of "friends".
Several good points are being made here. I for one would be in a catch 22. I don't want to give up my guns and I am going to be the LEO who has to come to my friends homes and ask them to give theirs up. I know I can't give you an honest answer on this.
AND WHY WOULD YOU HAVE TO JUST BECAUSE YOU ARE LEO????
Several good points are being made here. I for one would be in a catch 22. I don't want to give up my guns and I am going to be the LEO who has to come to my friends homes and ask them to give theirs up. I know I can't give you an honest answer on this.
The true law of the land should solve your problem for you. If you still have questions you should reconsider your profession.
Brad Steele
Just something to think about.
And THAT is what it is going to be. Not a 'fight'. Not a 'struggle'. Not even a 'revolution'.
This will be WAR.
The natural state of every creature on this Earth is war, whether that creature be placed here by the grace of God, or if they evolved from a pile of primordial muck.
At that point, gun rights, civil rights, individual freedoms, collective freedoms, nations, politics, God above or even the allmighty dollar itself... none of them will even be the issue. It will be about life and death. Death and life. Killing, surviving, watching others die around you, and even dying yourself.
Some of you people seem to think that you can flee, sit out the battles, watch them on CNN, MSNBC, Fox News or even Al Jazeera, whatever the hell you prefer. There's nowhere to run from war. America hasn't faced that universal truth for 240 years, but that doesn't change the fact that you cannot run from war.
You can run from the battlefields, you can run from the carnage, you can run from the blood, bombs and bullets, but the war will find you. Somehow, in someway, significant or petty, you will be affected by this war, because try as you might you will not be taking everything you hold dear with you.
I've already chosen my reason to fight. I know several people on this board that have done the same. If and WHEN it happens, we can make peace in our souls with what this war can -and will- do to us.
All the rest of you, no matter where you stand, what you choose, or where you go, you WILL be a part of this war. So my advice to every single one of you, whether you will fight or not, is to choose what part you will have in this war. What part your family may have in this war. Choose, and make peace with your choice. But do not think for a moment that there is any way to escape it when it happens.
I have nothing to add to your post. Nothing to take away from it.
Save one thing.
The reason to fight is to be LEFT ALONE...for that is the basis of freedom. The freedom from, in other words, being forced to live under laws, rules, regulations, edicts thought to be necessary for 'civilized life'.
Most all actually being nothing more then a means to control people for the power hungry.
It will be about life and death. Death and life. Killing, surviving, watching others die around you, and even dying yourself.
Some of you people seem to think that you can flee, sit out the battles, watch them on CNN, MSNBC, Fox News or even Al Jazeera, whatever the hell you prefer. There's nowhere to run from war. America hasn't faced that universal truth for 240 years, but that doesn't change the fact that you cannot run from war.
You can run from the battlefields, you can run from the carnage, you can run from the blood, bombs and bullets, but the war will find you. Somehow, in someway, significant or petty, you will be affected by this war, because try as you might you will not be taking everything you hold dear with you.
I've already chosen my reason to fight. I know several people on this board that have done the same. If and WHEN it happens, we can make peace in our souls with what this war can -and will- do to us.
All the rest of you, no matter where you stand, what you choose, or where you go, you WILL be a part of this war.
Sounds like the rantings of another internet commando and armchair warrior who has never heard a shot fired in anger or served one day in the country's armed forces. It'll sure be nicer on the internet when school starts up again in a few weeks and these kids clear off the forums.