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wow a 3 year old topic, i remember when it was started and it has kept right on going.
you know that the second gaurantees all the other rights. you know that the other rights have been stripped by our goverment as well in the name of security.free association, free speech,land use, arms.
we expect the courts to be where justice resides and she should be blind. unfortunately like some other regimes,the courts have become mired in the politics of the times and they will not defend the defenseless and downtrodden, rather they strenghthen tyranny and injustice.
the legislative is all about passing the law of the day and filling their own pockets.the only part of the constitutiuon they respect is the part that says that they are to be elected to positions of power.
the executive no longer needs to pass laws he can create a fcc by judicial fiat,impose a tax, ban certain items with his pen.depending on which group of pigs is feeding at the trough depends on what rights are less available at the time.
so would you fight? would you die on your doorstep in a hail of bullets and have the fourth estate call you a madman and the reason why we need these restrictions enforced and why we need the militarization of police forces and less rights for the common man.
some here talk about 1 million gun owners in this country as yamamoto said "there will be a gun behind every blade of grass if we invade", not today,today most gunowners own a few deer rifles that they take to the range and sight in scope once a year, while there are a lot of us that believe, most gunowners dont and they are the nra. so long as the 5 shot integral magazine bolt or lever action rifle is safe they dont care what happens to the rest of gun owners.
the real danger as i said a few years ago is happening now. restrictions on ammo sales and lawsuits against ranges for enviromental reasons. if we have a society that has only wall hangers and no place or ammo to shoot, the level of apathy will rise a hundredfold.
and again heres what i will do.i will not die on my stairs,my death will accomplish nothing.i will not turn them in, i will cache them somplace sealed that i can get to later and i will cry about my lost or stolen or whatever happened. i will sit in jail as a prisoner of consience but i will not give them up not even a m44 with a shot out barrel.
If everyone that believes this guy is right would go help his cause, there wouldn't be enough room!!!! I wish I could go join him in his fight! Sad thing is...This will just go away...just like all the noise about the "the border fence" and doing something to stop the illegal immigrants. Maybe this will be the one man (and his group) that does not back down. I will pray this doesn't turn into another Waco.
quote:I will pray this doesn't turn into another Waco.
It probably will. The media is already whooping this one up.
But the ones then don't get the media attention are even more concerning. Two members of this very forum have gone to prison already. And one of them died there.
quote:Originally posted by WoundedWolf
It probably will. The media is already whooping this one up.
But the ones then don't get the media attention are even more concerning. Two members of this very forum have gone to prison already. And one of them died there.
-Wolf
Ah, yes. Ronnie Perkins. It isn't right that somebody that commited to following all of the unconstitutional regulations would be sent to prison. But, since we are living in the sad society we are, there is little hope for the law abiding. [:(!]
This is the end, my only friend, the end - Jim Morrison.
That is where we are heading with gun ownership in the US. No, they are not breaking down your doors. That will come later; after the argument for 'civility' and 'civic duty' ring hollow. Do not delude yourselve into believing that Washington does NOT want this. Do not fool yourself into believing that government, ANY government left unchecked, will stomp on the rights of it's people. Our federal government would do the same, in spades, if we allow it.
I am not an (at least I don't think I am) extremeist. I just recognize human nature and at leat hope I have learned SOMETHING from history. EVERY totalitarian government in history has FIRST eliminated the public's ability to defend itself, thereby solidifying the need for that government.
We are not yet at that crossroad. We are not far from it, though. These actions have a tendenancy of snowballing and once it's in motion, it can't be stopped. You ask if I would defend, with action, my right to own and keep arms? Damn right. I have a lot to lose, by doing so. I have small children, a lovely wife and a comfortable life. These are ALL made possible by sacrifices made over a period of 250+ years and by the insight of the founders to recognize that ANY government entity can be misused and corrupted. The ONLY insurance against that is the ability of the people to fight back when it is necessary. The choice as to when this is necessary is a personal one.
It hasn't happened and I hope it doesn't in my lifetime. Our best hope for seeing that it doesn't happen is the education of those who WOULD take our rights, one person at a time. Help your friends to understand.
Were freedom not so important, many of us should have given up many years ago.
Witness this thread...how really few responses over how long a period ? There SHOULD have been thousands...within 2 days.
The seed mostly has run out...actually, the seed never WAS numerous...only 3 % of the population fought the Revolution...around 30 % supported it.
Freedom means little to most....and EVERYTHING to a few.
Stand tall..stand with the few..and one earns the RIGHT to call themselves American. Merely being born on this soil cannot make one an American...that is a mind-set that is generated in ones soul by intelligence and study...not an accident of birth.
Believe that the Second Amendment gives authority to the fed gov to restrict/limit/regulate firearms...? You ain't an American. That is a harsh staement that ought to be enblazoned across the tv screen every few hours.
original question
Simple question: Suppose the Feds decided to go British on us, and said "No more firearms, period. Turn them all in, or we'll confiscate them." Would you turn them in, or, when they came to your door, would you fight? And by "fight" I mean exactly that---gun in hand, willing and ready to shoot. Not some legal wrangling in the fixed courts which would naturally side with the Feds.
A simple answer, everything is already in place to relieve everyone in America of their guns and it would be just as easy as telling you to wear a seat belt, or get a ticket.
First we now have Homeland Security that can make every cop, trooper,deputy or whatever in America a marshall or Federal cop for the government in the name of security.
Hypothetical, but they could tell 10,000 cops from NY, 10,000 form LA, 10,000 from Dallas til they had 60,000 or 1000000 cops meet on the out skirts on Miami or any city, Announce that all guns in the city are to be brought to a certian place and the Fed cops will be comming thru to make sure that no guns are left behind.
After word gets out as to what happened to the people that were found to be hiding weapons, you can believe that the next city, or town will be happy to give up their weapons. I'd be willing to bet that all guns could be confisticated with less than 100 people killed and maybe 50000 hospitalized. Anyone that watches cops should know that there are many that are real humane people just doing their job, but there are also many that are just looking for a reason to use the dog, club, tazor ect.
Anyone thinks that cops from one city that come thru their city will have any mercey on them has a lot of sand between their ears.
Every LEO in America will go along with the program or they would be in the same fix that the public would be in.
All Hypothetical, but it could happen and damn fast.
quote:Originally posted by 6 pointer
original question
Simple question: Suppose the Feds decided to go British on us, and said "No more firearms, period. Turn them all in, or we'll confiscate them." Would you turn them in, or, when they came to your door, would you fight? And by "fight" I mean exactly that---gun in hand, willing and ready to shoot. Not some legal wrangling in the fixed courts which would naturally side with the Feds.
A simple answer, everything is already in place to relieve everyone in America of their guns and it would be just as easy as telling you to wear a seat belt, or get a ticket.
First we now have Homeland Security that can make every cop, trooper,deputy or whatever in America a marshall or Federal cop for the government in the name of security.
Hypothetical, but they could tell 10,000 cops from NY, 10,000 form LA, 10,000 from Dallas til they had 60,000 or 1000000 cops meet on the out skirts on Miami or any city, Announce that all guns in the city are to be brought to a certian place and the Fed cops will be comming thru to make sure that no guns are left behind.
After word gets out as to what happened to the people that were found to be hiding weapons, you can believe that the next city, or town will be happy to give up their weapons. I'd be willing to bet that all guns could be confisticated with less than 100 people killed and maybe 50000 hospitalized. Anyone that watches cops should know that there are many that are real humane people just doing their job, but there are also many that are just looking for a reason to use the dog, club, tazor ect.
Anyone thinks that cops from one city that come thru their city will have any mercey on them has a lot of sand between their ears.
Every LEO in America will go along with the program or they would be in the same fix that the public would be in.
All Hypothetical, but it could happen and damn fast.
number one... there are not that many cops in each city and what are you going to do, leave every major city you named void of all police.... get real
number two... the death toll would be well into the thousands on both sides IF the government pursued it and even a fraction of gunowners responded with force... you can't discount all the people with automaic wweapons that do have the ammo to feed them just rolling over for this
number three... there are the "extreme" gun owners that feel that at this point taking the fight to the people that enacted this hypothetical law would be their last act of freedom and believe me, lots of bad politicians would not survive it
No, we must all fight in this situation and make it count. Always think proactive not reactive and prepare for the worst but hope for the best. Fight brothers, fight!!!
"60,000 police..ect.."
I would purely love to see this develop.
We would find out in short order if the lying sleezy snakes in power have bigger balls then decent, honest citizens here in America.
Let me give you a clue. Assume they mustered a million zombies to do their bidding..attempt to overwhelm law-abiding, Second Amendment supporters and confiscate guns.
3% of the population WILL take up arms....9 million people.... That leaves somewhere around 7-8 million gun owners that never had to fire one round....
Pray that the garbage running things actually attempts such an act...because the way they are doing it..an inch at a time... they will absolutely win...
There are nearly 900,000 police officers in the United States, if anyone thinks there would be a problem getting 100,000 of them deputized and off to one city, you're not thinking clearly.
Also i've seen to many times over the past 60 plus yrs where at least 20 people talked a tough game and just two cops that meant business stopped them in their tracks.. there is no doubt in my mind but what the same thing could not happen to any city.
everything is hypothetical of corse, but it could happen.
quote:Also i've seen to many times over the past 60 plus yrs where at least 20 people talked a tough game and just two cops that meant business stopped them in their tracks.. there is no doubt in my mind but what the same thing could not happen to any city.
Indeed.
The end could be just as you surmise...a few thousand killed, guns removed, and the Elites firmly in power.
Better they do it sooner then later..because those of us that recognize the difference between freedom and tyranny are a cancer on their total takeover...and the sooner we are killed off..the better for the bottom dwelling cowards that make up the bulk of the population of America today. Less upsetting,don't you know..pointing out what men USED to do...the founders...
quote:Originally posted by 6 pointer
There are nearly 900,000 police officers in the United States, if anyone thinks there would be a problem getting 100,000 of them deputized and off to one city, you're not thinking clearly.
Also i've seen to many times over the past 60 plus yrs where at least 20 people talked a tough game and just two cops that meant business stopped them in their tracks.. there is no doubt in my mind but what the same thing could not happen to any city.
everything is hypothetical of corse, but it could happen.
We didn't even get 100,000 national guard in during Katrina. Shy of authorizing/mobilizing the military you are not getting 100,000 LEO's from all over the nation in one city at one time without enormous media publicity and it being posted all over the net. At that point people are moving or making "special" preparations. I mean really, we can't even get congress to authorize and extra 20,000 troops to Iraq and don't even start on the logistics over getting that many people to a given area.
As to your "two cops" taking on 20 people.... those 20 people were not defending with their lives beliefs they were willing to die for. If they were the cops would have been dead in seconds. Get real, there are enormous flaws with your ideas and the day our leaders organize 50, 100 or even 200 thousand LEO's or military to subdue a portion of the population fighing for the constitution, conducting door to door searches, is going to be the day you see the second revolution because you can sure bet to do this they will be stepping all over other privliges other citizens won't tolerate.[xx(]
I don't believe this really happened either.. http://www.givethemback.com/
Katrina was a suprise and no one was prepared and it really didn't look like they cared, if a real leader had been in charge, food, supplies and busses would have been there within 3 hrs,tops.or heads would roll.
when it's time to relieve Americans of their weapons, it will be a law and the confistication will be well planned,just like Desert Storm... like i said, all HYPOTHETCAL, but it could happen very easy. many will probably bury weapons like people did in Canada. but in the end, the inevitable will happen. Just think about how safe our streets will be with no weapons. there will be no more drunk drivers, no more child molesters, no serial killers, no more rapes, no more drugs, no more domestic violence. no more homeless people, no more high school drop outs, no more jobs leaving the country, gas will be down to a buck a gal, everyone can afford a college ed. all the bad things above caused because some crazy Americans want their 2nd Amendent rights. the right to bear arms, how silly.
how come you people ain;t as smart as our elected people in DC?. help make it a perfect world, distroy your guns.lol
I forgot to mention that even the 13 mil plus illegals would just go back to their home countries and try to come back legal.
yea I know, I've seen the video just like all of us have. The one thing you fail to realize is that NO ONE fought back against this with any RESOLVE. Put your self in that spot for a minute, if you weren't smart enough to get out. You have heard cops are taking peoples weapons, you decide yours are worth fighting for. A car load of cops come to your door, why even answer. You have just open fired through you windows and door, with hopefully your family, and in that kind of suprise just taken out X number of cops trying to commit an illegal act.
Figure it out, all of us are NOT sheeple. We ALL won't bury our guns. Fighting is a last resort but an absolutely necessary one in the above hypothetical situation. I personally fire a 1000+ rounds a week and am intimately familiar with all my weapons, how many LEO/Military/Feds can say the same. I'm nothing compared to allot of people I know. Good luck to you and yours, sounds like you'll need it.
If an when our government decides to eliminate all civilian gunownership, and have to forcefully take on those gun owners who want to fight the government, as dumb is as it, the governmen iis smart enough to take the battle to the gun owning holdouts and the time, place, and balance of power in the favor of the government.
The reason for this is that it will be nearly impossible for the gun owners to take any significent battles to the government. Instead, the government will deliver the significent battles to the gun owners. And the gun owners will ultimately lose.
JMHO
Now, after some have described what they might do in the hot gun confiscation war, what are you doing in the cold gun confiscation war? Anything?
quote:Now, after some have described what they might do in the hot gun confiscation war, what are you doing in the cold gun confiscation war? Anything?
Some are comfortable with the level of tyranny we currently have..content to pretend we live in a free society.
20,000++++ laws already. The advance is inevitable.
The answer is simply put. Too little..too late.
I will continue to do my level best to persuade people to stay OUT of the corruption of slimy politics....and point out that "The Goverment will win" ISN'T cut into stone.
That will be MY contribution to gun freedom/personal freedom/privacy freedom...FREEDOM..in America.
Consider that Iraq is 167400 square miles. (about the size of California, 163707 s.m.) Our armed forces, there with military weapons and equipment, can't stop the insurgents. Do you really think the government here is going to go head to head with civilians?
As I have said before, they will simply make a law against it. (as other countries have done) MILLIONS will turn in their firearms. Others will NOT. Except for RARE occasions, there will be NO house to house fighting.
I guess the botton line is to keep mailing our elected officials and sending them copies of the 2nd Amendment for all the good it does, soon as they get in office, it's their agenda first and their next election campaign second. Remember after just one term they will retire at 15,000. per month plus life time med. why would they care about any amendments?
after 45yrs i get a little over 1700. per month and life time med.
wish i had been a polition
I had one polition tell me that my 2nd Amed rights had not been touched as when it was written, there was nothing but muskets and anyone could still have them except people living in certian cities.
.
quote:Originally posted by Highball
quote:Now, after some have described what they might do in the hot gun confiscation war, what are you doing in the cold gun confiscation war? Anything?
Some are comfortable with the level of tyranny we currently have..content to pretend we live in a free society.
20,000++++ laws already. The advance is inevitable.
The answer is simply put. Too little..too late.
I will continue to do my level best to persuade people to stay OUT of the corruption of slimy politics....and point out that "The Goverment will win" ISN'T cut into stone.
That will be MY contribution to gun freedom/personal freedom/privacy freedom...FREEDOM..in America.
You are knowledgable, determined and along with that you are very consistent and active about it. In that regard you are living your plan.
Sadly, many other gun owners (reader: do not be quick to assume I am referring to you) do nothing but talk a good fight. They sit on their time, money, gun, gun rights and do nothing but talk a good fight.
quote:Originally posted by trstone
Okay....Let's get down to where the short hairs grow.
Simple question: Suppose the Feds decided to go British on us, and said "No more firearms, period. Turn them all in, or we'll confiscate them." Would you turn them in, or, when they came to your door, would you fight? And by "fight" I mean exactly that---gun in hand, willing and ready to shoot. Not some legal wrangling in the fixed courts which would naturally side with the Feds.
I don't want to hear any theoretical or philosophical discussions about "how it couldn't happen" or "the Government could never do that anyway" or "it's a silly question because (whatever)"; I want to get an idea as to what fraction of the gun-owning population would be willing to go all the way if faced with the BATF Brownshirts hammering on their door and saying "Hand it over, peasant." I was inspired to this line of inquiry after hearing that, in a poll of U.S. soldiers, more than 25% said they'd be perfectly willing to shoot American civilians if ordered by their officers to do so....
quote:Originally posted by tr fox
Sadly, many other gun owners (reader: do not be quick to assume I am referring to you) do nothing but talk a good fight. They sit on their time, money, gun, gun rights and do nothing but talk a good fight.
tr fox,
It is sad, but true. MANY do not even TALK a good fight.
I am active in some shooting sports. When talking with fellow shooters, it angers me when I ask them what they have done, to protect our gun rights. I have found that MANY have NEVER written a letter, made a phone call, or even sent an email to their representatives, concerning gun rights. They come back with, "I'm doing my part, I'm a member of the NRA."
(Not going there.....this time [;)])
I try to explain that, to BE their "representative" constituents have to TELL them what they want done. (NOT that the reps will listen, mind you) But without your input, they will do what they THINK is best for us. Which, as we all know, isn't always in our (gun owners) best interest. I feel like I'm beating my head against a wall.
Because they still have access to their AR-15s, their handguns, their shotguns (unlike some other states, cities) they don't see that there is any immediate actions necessary. I tell them to look at the cancerous laws coming from each coast, and how they are spreading. They don't see it. I'm about to give up. [V]
APATHY RUNS RAMPANT!!!
quote:Originally posted by pickenup
quote:Originally posted by tr fox
Sadly, many other gun owners (reader: do not be quick to assume I am referring to you) do nothing but talk a good fight. They sit on their time, money, gun, gun rights and do nothing but talk a good fight.
tr fox,
It is sad, but true. MANY do not even TALK a good fight.
I am active in some shooting sports. When talking with fellow shooters, it angers me when I ask them what they have done, to protect our gun rights. I have found that MANY have NEVER written a letter, made a phone call, or even sent an email to their representatives, concerning gun rights. They come back with, "I'm doing my part, I'm a member of the NRA."
(Not going there.....this time [;)])
I try to explain that, to BE their "representative" constituents have to TELL them what they want done. (NOT that the reps will listen, mind you) But without your input, they will do what they THINK is best for us. Which, as we all know, isn't always in our (gun owners) best interest. I feel like I'm beating my head against a wall.
Because they still have access to their AR-15s, their handguns, their shotguns (unlike some other states, cities) they don't see that there is any immediate actions necessary. I tell them to look at the cancerous laws coming from each coast, and how they are spreading. They don't see it. I'm about to give up. [V]
APATHY RUNS RAMPANT!!!
Sad to say I despise some of my fellow gun owners in regards to their lack of concern for their gun rights. Many of them greatly enjoy their gun rights and obviously want to keep those rights. Yet the majority of them seem as brain dead as a flat possum in the middle of the road when it comes to spending just a little time, money and effort to do a little fighting for their gun rights. They seem to think that, just as when they go to their kitchen sink faucet and turn the handle, that they will somehow, someway always have their gun rights. Or, if one day they find themselves with no gun rights, then they will get on the phone, just as they would do if their kitchen was suddenly without water, yell at someone and like magic soon their water and their gun rights would be restored.
When we do lose our gunrights, and if gun owners don't start working together we will, at least I can take grim satisfaction knowing that the majority of the gun owners who have lost their gun rights DESERVED IT.
Note to reader: If you don't do something, the very, very least of which would be to join and support one of the few national or even local pro-gun rights organizations, then YOU ARE ONE OF THE ONES I AM REFERRING TO.
This is a GREAT post and I have enjoyed reading most of your replies. trstone, your post regarding the infringement upon our rights was dead on. I couldn't agree with you more. I don't think you are as alone as you may think, it's just that it's not something you can go around conversing about in "public." I think it is really sad how many restrictions, laws and freedoms that have been taken from us. There comes a point to which people will start fighting back but here is an interesting theory of mine:
The rights that we are given are very slowly being taken away and restricted from us. I believe it is a well thought out plan by you know who to acclimate the population to these freedoms so that most people don't realize it. At some point, once enough of our rights and freedoms have been taken away, the "strong arm" will do exactly that and we the "citizen" won't have any means of fighting back. Just some food for thought.
I would just have to be illegal.. nobody has the right to walk on me. Fighting wouldn't be the problem other countries selling to us would be the new drug trade..
quote:Originally posted by Red223
Our firearms may well be useless against a tyranny. The U.S. military has designed a radio dish to mount on Humvee's that emits radiation and gives pain to protestors, turn it up and it can cook them. What will a rifle do against that? They can get you silently in your sleep.
I have a M.S. in Electrical Engineering. All one would need to do to defend against such a device would be to place a piece of metal between himself and the device, or else simply dodge the beam, which no doubt is very small in angular size if it's emiitted from a parabolic dish.
quote:They also now have a high power laser capable of shooting down aircraft, missiles, and taking out other targets like humans. Imagine if the FBI got control of a laser in space and could vaporize someone with a 200 mile shot straight down with the click of a mouse?
A laser connected to the power grid, and placed close to the human target, might be able to draw enough power to accomplish this. A solar powered laser in Low Earth Orbit would not be able to do this.
quote:I think our firearms are outdated and getting useless with todays technology.
I disagree. For one thing, modern technology complements firearms (crimson trace lasers, modern optics, radioactive night sights, and a plethora of other examples). Second, a century-old hunting rifle can be deadly to some government thug in kevlar.
I believe we are on the brink of a reawakening. More people than ever are awakening from the illusion that the gov't will protect you. Waco was a wake up call. Ruby Ridge was a wake up call, twofold because there were survivors to that one. Oklahoma City Federal Building bombing was a sign that there is malcontent with our gov't. 911 was a direct symbol that the gov't won't help up.
People are coming out of their wide awake nightmare, many of them knowing they could have stopped it, had they had the sense to fight, then.
It is an uphill battle, but despite political correctness, despite zero tolerance, despite schools trying to ramrod compliance down our children's throats, it is simply not happening.
i would fight! i am also in the military for those of you who dont know already.. i would be one of the ones mentioned above. go home and bar the door.
I WOULD FIGHT!!! This country has gone too far down the path of socialism/fascism that the only way we can get our rights back are to fight for them. I have the guns and ammo necessary. Of course I would be in the hills of West Virginia and not in a sell-out state where I am from (aka Maryland).
Speaking as an individual that has stood in front of a few judges already I can assure you that our government is hard at work steadily removing the rights of all that are not paying attention. Even those that are paying attention are losing their rights.
What's so disgusting to me is that there is nothing a individual can do, even those that so strongly agree that our rights are slowly being diminished and truthfully, what have we done?
Yell, scream, kick...the Bill of Rights, the Constitution, all documents that are relevant to our way of being in this United States of Oppression are in one way or another twisted and broken. Far, far away are what you may consider your rights. Most would agree that we do not live in the democracy so framed by our forefathers. We live in a twisted version of it, sure. Be real.
Go to some of these states that already have tightened laws on gun control. Go to Washington D.C. (not even a state but somehow or another has borders as if it were such). I'm sure many can and will relate.
Don't go off on some tirade about "love it or leave it" as I have been in the military. I served as did my father.
I'm just saying that we are being beguiled into believing that what is done is best.
My answer to your question is that of many.
I would fight, I just would not do it openly and in someones sights. I learned a long time ago if out- manned or out-gunned, far better to duck and run to return better prepared.
What is really interesting is that your question brings to mind the movie "Red Dawn" except it would be our own government. Hmmm
What is even more interesting is that if that occurred, I think some piss-ant little wanna-be real country would take that golden opportunity to strike. (United we Stand...)
They would have to come door to door, One at a time. So the real question is. Would you stand your ground for your nieghbor because your turn will be tommorow and who will stand with you?
quote:Originally posted by 2gun
i think you are all missing the basic point. soldiers follow orders, so do police.
happiness is a warm gun, preferably preban
For those that never served one day as a soldier, this might make sense, however; soldiers take an oath, "to uphold and defend the constitution of the U.S. against all enemies foreign and domestic". Soldiers (real soldiers do not follow illegal orders) following the "I was just following orders" we hanged after WWII, did not fly then-does not fly now.
Police are a differnt kind of people. For the most part they are not honest. They believe they are the sole judge of right and wrong, if not they would enforce the laws, as they see the crimes before them. But instead they use excuses,for example, "the judges let them go as soon as we arrest them". Their job is not to be the judge, they are the police, most of them are confused on this issue. Most police deptartments are full of politics, who is related to who, who is kissing whose * etc. Furtheremore, here in Memphis for example, if you stay on the MPD for 20 years, you will be promoted to the Rank of Captain, on your 20th anniversary. This is why Memphis has so many Captains, that are so ignorant it is scary. Anyone that is honest, can read about police corruption all over the U.S., worse in many cases than MEXICO. What is the point to all this, well these guys, will gladly carry out the search, and seizure,and stealing as much as they can for themselves. Drugs and drug crime could not ever have grown like it has without the help of the police. Almost anyone can go to a big city in the US and see drug dealing, without the benefit of SPECIAL TRAINING, you might ask why with special training these cops can't. And if they can why don't they do the job they swore to do. Lazy, or getting a little on the side?
quote:Originally posted by MEMPHISJOE
For those that never served one day as a soldier, this might make sense, however; soldiers take an oath, "to uphold and defend the constitution of the U.S. against all enemies foreign and domestic". Soldiers (real soldiers do not follow illegal orders) following the "I was just following orders" we hanged after WWII, did not fly then-does not fly now.
Ah, a soldier wouldn't partake in a gun consifcation?
Please explain the most RECENT mass example that was New Orleans.
WHY, if soldiers wouldn't, DID the NATIONAL GUARD help consifacate firearms?
Yeah. I will trust no one in uniform thank you. SHTF, MY trust goes to those whom I KNOW I can trust. A uniform won't mean MUCH then.
And NO, I am not attacking those that serve. Merely extending that I don't feel comfortable with this guys statement.
Ah, a soldier wouldn't partake in a gun consifcation?
Please explain the most RECENT mass example that was New Orleans.
WHY, if soldiers wouldn't, DID the NATIONAL GUARD help consifacate firearms? I believe that the question was regarding 25% of the military would fire upon the public, for no other reason than they were ordered to do so. Not gun confiscation. You have changed the topic, and somehow twisted this into partaking in gun confiscation (not consifcation-if that is what you meant). Martial law would have to be enacted for the regular military to be involved in civilian law enforcement. You have asked for my special knowledge regarding the actions of the national guard in N.O., I do not have an answer, I do not have the answer as to why one third of the police force vanished into thin air, you would need to ask this question to the gov. of LA, the Guard works for the Gov.,the police work for the city, etc. This type of question is a good example of people seeking answers to questions from a higher power, prehaps church may be good for your mind? Also it demonstrates your need to use other crazy arguments, such as, "if air travel is so safe why do planes crash?". Or, "If our food supply is safe, why do people die from eating bad food?" These are simple minded arguments that only make sense to those with a simple mind. These arguments do not focus on the 25% would shoot civilians just because they were ordered to do so [regarding the military].
Would I mind capping some cop? Not at all. Frankly, I think that most cops are bullies and sadists. The shooting of an unarmed man at his own bachelor party recently proves it. Would I mind getting shot? Yes.
Is this country worth getting killed over? No. No country is.
If things turn like this. I will just... LEAVE. I have a profession in medical field. I know 3 languages. I already have a green card in Canada. If there is a major crackdown here. I will simply move to Canada. Along with my savings. Just move from US banks to Canadian.
I will rent all my 4 properties here and take ALL money to Canada.
Make sure that USA doesn't get a SINGLE CENT from me other then property taxes. After I leave, outside of my 4 properties, the rest can go to hell. As long as I live here, I want this place to have strong economy and strong civil rights and that the constitution is upheld. Thats what I bought into when I came here.
If I am forced to leave. I don't care what happens to this place after I am outta here. I will not risk my life and my skin for guns.
However, I will vote with my feet and whatever money I have.
And y'all have fun and when you will once again whine about how bad things got - look in the mirror: YOU VOTED FOR REAGAN. YOU VOTED FOR BOTH BUSHes. Enjoy, have fun. Hope you have plenty of vaseline.
I am working, paying taxes, already sending some of my money accross the border. Getting ready to run if things get nasty. As far as my guns, I will sink them in Great Lakes, before I give them to the pigs.
ICE T Was right.
Comments
you know that the second gaurantees all the other rights. you know that the other rights have been stripped by our goverment as well in the name of security.free association, free speech,land use, arms.
we expect the courts to be where justice resides and she should be blind. unfortunately like some other regimes,the courts have become mired in the politics of the times and they will not defend the defenseless and downtrodden, rather they strenghthen tyranny and injustice.
the legislative is all about passing the law of the day and filling their own pockets.the only part of the constitutiuon they respect is the part that says that they are to be elected to positions of power.
the executive no longer needs to pass laws he can create a fcc by judicial fiat,impose a tax, ban certain items with his pen.depending on which group of pigs is feeding at the trough depends on what rights are less available at the time.
so would you fight? would you die on your doorstep in a hail of bullets and have the fourth estate call you a madman and the reason why we need these restrictions enforced and why we need the militarization of police forces and less rights for the common man.
some here talk about 1 million gun owners in this country as yamamoto said "there will be a gun behind every blade of grass if we invade", not today,today most gunowners own a few deer rifles that they take to the range and sight in scope once a year, while there are a lot of us that believe, most gunowners dont and they are the nra. so long as the 5 shot integral magazine bolt or lever action rifle is safe they dont care what happens to the rest of gun owners.
the real danger as i said a few years ago is happening now. restrictions on ammo sales and lawsuits against ranges for enviromental reasons. if we have a society that has only wall hangers and no place or ammo to shoot, the level of apathy will rise a hundredfold.
and again heres what i will do.i will not die on my stairs,my death will accomplish nothing.i will not turn them in, i will cache them somplace sealed that i can get to later and i will cry about my lost or stolen or whatever happened. i will sit in jail as a prisoner of consience but i will not give them up not even a m44 with a shot out barrel.
think about it
If everyone that believes this guy is right would go help his cause, there wouldn't be enough room!!!! I wish I could go join him in his fight! Sad thing is...This will just go away...just like all the noise about the "the border fence" and doing something to stop the illegal immigrants. Maybe this will be the one man (and his group) that does not back down. I will pray this doesn't turn into another Waco.
http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2007/01/18/america/NA-GEN-US-Tax-Trial.php
It probably will. The media is already whooping this one up.
But the ones then don't get the media attention are even more concerning. Two members of this very forum have gone to prison already. And one of them died there.
-Wolf
It probably will. The media is already whooping this one up.
But the ones then don't get the media attention are even more concerning. Two members of this very forum have gone to prison already. And one of them died there.
-Wolf
Ah, yes. Ronnie Perkins. It isn't right that somebody that commited to following all of the unconstitutional regulations would be sent to prison. But, since we are living in the sad society we are, there is little hope for the law abiding. [:(!]
That is where we are heading with gun ownership in the US. No, they are not breaking down your doors. That will come later; after the argument for 'civility' and 'civic duty' ring hollow. Do not delude yourselve into believing that Washington does NOT want this. Do not fool yourself into believing that government, ANY government left unchecked, will stomp on the rights of it's people. Our federal government would do the same, in spades, if we allow it.
I am not an (at least I don't think I am) extremeist. I just recognize human nature and at leat hope I have learned SOMETHING from history. EVERY totalitarian government in history has FIRST eliminated the public's ability to defend itself, thereby solidifying the need for that government.
We are not yet at that crossroad. We are not far from it, though. These actions have a tendenancy of snowballing and once it's in motion, it can't be stopped. You ask if I would defend, with action, my right to own and keep arms? Damn right. I have a lot to lose, by doing so. I have small children, a lovely wife and a comfortable life. These are ALL made possible by sacrifices made over a period of 250+ years and by the insight of the founders to recognize that ANY government entity can be misused and corrupted. The ONLY insurance against that is the ability of the people to fight back when it is necessary. The choice as to when this is necessary is a personal one.
It hasn't happened and I hope it doesn't in my lifetime. Our best hope for seeing that it doesn't happen is the education of those who WOULD take our rights, one person at a time. Help your friends to understand.
Witness this thread...how really few responses over how long a period ? There SHOULD have been thousands...within 2 days.
The seed mostly has run out...actually, the seed never WAS numerous...only 3 % of the population fought the Revolution...around 30 % supported it.
Freedom means little to most....and EVERYTHING to a few.
Stand tall..stand with the few..and one earns the RIGHT to call themselves American. Merely being born on this soil cannot make one an American...that is a mind-set that is generated in ones soul by intelligence and study...not an accident of birth.
Believe that the Second Amendment gives authority to the fed gov to restrict/limit/regulate firearms...? You ain't an American. That is a harsh staement that ought to be enblazoned across the tv screen every few hours.
fight
Good to hear. But I gotta ask. Since you are ready for the hot war have you been helping with the cold war?
Simple question: Suppose the Feds decided to go British on us, and said "No more firearms, period. Turn them all in, or we'll confiscate them." Would you turn them in, or, when they came to your door, would you fight? And by "fight" I mean exactly that---gun in hand, willing and ready to shoot. Not some legal wrangling in the fixed courts which would naturally side with the Feds.
A simple answer, everything is already in place to relieve everyone in America of their guns and it would be just as easy as telling you to wear a seat belt, or get a ticket.
First we now have Homeland Security that can make every cop, trooper,deputy or whatever in America a marshall or Federal cop for the government in the name of security.
Hypothetical, but they could tell 10,000 cops from NY, 10,000 form LA, 10,000 from Dallas til they had 60,000 or 1000000 cops meet on the out skirts on Miami or any city, Announce that all guns in the city are to be brought to a certian place and the Fed cops will be comming thru to make sure that no guns are left behind.
After word gets out as to what happened to the people that were found to be hiding weapons, you can believe that the next city, or town will be happy to give up their weapons. I'd be willing to bet that all guns could be confisticated with less than 100 people killed and maybe 50000 hospitalized. Anyone that watches cops should know that there are many that are real humane people just doing their job, but there are also many that are just looking for a reason to use the dog, club, tazor ect.
Anyone thinks that cops from one city that come thru their city will have any mercey on them has a lot of sand between their ears.
Every LEO in America will go along with the program or they would be in the same fix that the public would be in.
All Hypothetical, but it could happen and damn fast.
original question
Simple question: Suppose the Feds decided to go British on us, and said "No more firearms, period. Turn them all in, or we'll confiscate them." Would you turn them in, or, when they came to your door, would you fight? And by "fight" I mean exactly that---gun in hand, willing and ready to shoot. Not some legal wrangling in the fixed courts which would naturally side with the Feds.
A simple answer, everything is already in place to relieve everyone in America of their guns and it would be just as easy as telling you to wear a seat belt, or get a ticket.
First we now have Homeland Security that can make every cop, trooper,deputy or whatever in America a marshall or Federal cop for the government in the name of security.
Hypothetical, but they could tell 10,000 cops from NY, 10,000 form LA, 10,000 from Dallas til they had 60,000 or 1000000 cops meet on the out skirts on Miami or any city, Announce that all guns in the city are to be brought to a certian place and the Fed cops will be comming thru to make sure that no guns are left behind.
After word gets out as to what happened to the people that were found to be hiding weapons, you can believe that the next city, or town will be happy to give up their weapons. I'd be willing to bet that all guns could be confisticated with less than 100 people killed and maybe 50000 hospitalized. Anyone that watches cops should know that there are many that are real humane people just doing their job, but there are also many that are just looking for a reason to use the dog, club, tazor ect.
Anyone thinks that cops from one city that come thru their city will have any mercey on them has a lot of sand between their ears.
Every LEO in America will go along with the program or they would be in the same fix that the public would be in.
All Hypothetical, but it could happen and damn fast.
number one... there are not that many cops in each city and what are you going to do, leave every major city you named void of all police.... get real
number two... the death toll would be well into the thousands on both sides IF the government pursued it and even a fraction of gunowners responded with force... you can't discount all the people with automaic wweapons that do have the ammo to feed them just rolling over for this
number three... there are the "extreme" gun owners that feel that at this point taking the fight to the people that enacted this hypothetical law would be their last act of freedom and believe me, lots of bad politicians would not survive it
No, we must all fight in this situation and make it count. Always think proactive not reactive and prepare for the worst but hope for the best. Fight brothers, fight!!!
I would purely love to see this develop.
We would find out in short order if the lying sleezy snakes in power have bigger balls then decent, honest citizens here in America.
Let me give you a clue. Assume they mustered a million zombies to do their bidding..attempt to overwhelm law-abiding, Second Amendment supporters and confiscate guns.
3% of the population WILL take up arms....9 million people.... That leaves somewhere around 7-8 million gun owners that never had to fire one round....
Pray that the garbage running things actually attempts such an act...because the way they are doing it..an inch at a time... they will absolutely win...
Also i've seen to many times over the past 60 plus yrs where at least 20 people talked a tough game and just two cops that meant business stopped them in their tracks.. there is no doubt in my mind but what the same thing could not happen to any city.
everything is hypothetical of corse, but it could happen.
Indeed.
The end could be just as you surmise...a few thousand killed, guns removed, and the Elites firmly in power.
Better they do it sooner then later..because those of us that recognize the difference between freedom and tyranny are a cancer on their total takeover...and the sooner we are killed off..the better for the bottom dwelling cowards that make up the bulk of the population of America today. Less upsetting,don't you know..pointing out what men USED to do...the founders...
There are nearly 900,000 police officers in the United States, if anyone thinks there would be a problem getting 100,000 of them deputized and off to one city, you're not thinking clearly.
Also i've seen to many times over the past 60 plus yrs where at least 20 people talked a tough game and just two cops that meant business stopped them in their tracks.. there is no doubt in my mind but what the same thing could not happen to any city.
everything is hypothetical of corse, but it could happen.
We didn't even get 100,000 national guard in during Katrina. Shy of authorizing/mobilizing the military you are not getting 100,000 LEO's from all over the nation in one city at one time without enormous media publicity and it being posted all over the net. At that point people are moving or making "special" preparations. I mean really, we can't even get congress to authorize and extra 20,000 troops to Iraq and don't even start on the logistics over getting that many people to a given area.
As to your "two cops" taking on 20 people.... those 20 people were not defending with their lives beliefs they were willing to die for. If they were the cops would have been dead in seconds. Get real, there are enormous flaws with your ideas and the day our leaders organize 50, 100 or even 200 thousand LEO's or military to subdue a portion of the population fighing for the constitution, conducting door to door searches, is going to be the day you see the second revolution because you can sure bet to do this they will be stepping all over other privliges other citizens won't tolerate.[xx(]
http://www.givethemback.com/
Katrina was a suprise and no one was prepared and it really didn't look like they cared, if a real leader had been in charge, food, supplies and busses would have been there within 3 hrs,tops.or heads would roll.
when it's time to relieve Americans of their weapons, it will be a law and the confistication will be well planned,just like Desert Storm... like i said, all HYPOTHETCAL, but it could happen very easy. many will probably bury weapons like people did in Canada. but in the end, the inevitable will happen. Just think about how safe our streets will be with no weapons. there will be no more drunk drivers, no more child molesters, no serial killers, no more rapes, no more drugs, no more domestic violence. no more homeless people, no more high school drop outs, no more jobs leaving the country, gas will be down to a buck a gal, everyone can afford a college ed. all the bad things above caused because some crazy Americans want their 2nd Amendent rights. the right to bear arms, how silly.
how come you people ain;t as smart as our elected people in DC?. help make it a perfect world, distroy your guns.lol
I forgot to mention that even the 13 mil plus illegals would just go back to their home countries and try to come back legal.
Figure it out, all of us are NOT sheeple. We ALL won't bury our guns. Fighting is a last resort but an absolutely necessary one in the above hypothetical situation. I personally fire a 1000+ rounds a week and am intimately familiar with all my weapons, how many LEO/Military/Feds can say the same. I'm nothing compared to allot of people I know. Good luck to you and yours, sounds like you'll need it.
The reason for this is that it will be nearly impossible for the gun owners to take any significent battles to the government. Instead, the government will deliver the significent battles to the gun owners. And the gun owners will ultimately lose.
JMHO
Now, after some have described what they might do in the hot gun confiscation war, what are you doing in the cold gun confiscation war? Anything?
Some are comfortable with the level of tyranny we currently have..content to pretend we live in a free society.
20,000++++ laws already. The advance is inevitable.
The answer is simply put. Too little..too late.
I will continue to do my level best to persuade people to stay OUT of the corruption of slimy politics....and point out that "The Goverment will win" ISN'T cut into stone.
That will be MY contribution to gun freedom/personal freedom/privacy freedom...FREEDOM..in America.
As I have said before, they will simply make a law against it. (as other countries have done) MILLIONS will turn in their firearms. Others will NOT. Except for RARE occasions, there will be NO house to house fighting.
after 45yrs i get a little over 1700. per month and life time med.
wish i had been a polition
I had one polition tell me that my 2nd Amed rights had not been touched as when it was written, there was nothing but muskets and anyone could still have them except people living in certian cities.
.
quote:Now, after some have described what they might do in the hot gun confiscation war, what are you doing in the cold gun confiscation war? Anything?
Some are comfortable with the level of tyranny we currently have..content to pretend we live in a free society.
20,000++++ laws already. The advance is inevitable.
The answer is simply put. Too little..too late.
I will continue to do my level best to persuade people to stay OUT of the corruption of slimy politics....and point out that "The Goverment will win" ISN'T cut into stone.
That will be MY contribution to gun freedom/personal freedom/privacy freedom...FREEDOM..in America.
You are knowledgable, determined and along with that you are very consistent and active about it. In that regard you are living your plan.
Sadly, many other gun owners (reader: do not be quick to assume I am referring to you) do nothing but talk a good fight. They sit on their time, money, gun, gun rights and do nothing but talk a good fight.
Okay....Let's get down to where the short hairs grow.
Simple question: Suppose the Feds decided to go British on us, and said "No more firearms, period. Turn them all in, or we'll confiscate them." Would you turn them in, or, when they came to your door, would you fight? And by "fight" I mean exactly that---gun in hand, willing and ready to shoot. Not some legal wrangling in the fixed courts which would naturally side with the Feds.
I don't want to hear any theoretical or philosophical discussions about "how it couldn't happen" or "the Government could never do that anyway" or "it's a silly question because (whatever)"; I want to get an idea as to what fraction of the gun-owning population would be willing to go all the way if faced with the BATF Brownshirts hammering on their door and saying "Hand it over, peasant." I was inspired to this line of inquiry after hearing that, in a poll of U.S. soldiers, more than 25% said they'd be perfectly willing to shoot American civilians if ordered by their officers to do so....
I would fight, period.
Sadly, many other gun owners (reader: do not be quick to assume I am referring to you) do nothing but talk a good fight. They sit on their time, money, gun, gun rights and do nothing but talk a good fight.
tr fox,
It is sad, but true. MANY do not even TALK a good fight.
I am active in some shooting sports. When talking with fellow shooters, it angers me when I ask them what they have done, to protect our gun rights. I have found that MANY have NEVER written a letter, made a phone call, or even sent an email to their representatives, concerning gun rights. They come back with, "I'm doing my part, I'm a member of the NRA."
(Not going there.....this time [;)])
I try to explain that, to BE their "representative" constituents have to TELL them what they want done. (NOT that the reps will listen, mind you) But without your input, they will do what they THINK is best for us. Which, as we all know, isn't always in our (gun owners) best interest. I feel like I'm beating my head against a wall.
Because they still have access to their AR-15s, their handguns, their shotguns (unlike some other states, cities) they don't see that there is any immediate actions necessary. I tell them to look at the cancerous laws coming from each coast, and how they are spreading. They don't see it. I'm about to give up. [V]
APATHY RUNS RAMPANT!!!
quote:Originally posted by tr fox
Sadly, many other gun owners (reader: do not be quick to assume I am referring to you) do nothing but talk a good fight. They sit on their time, money, gun, gun rights and do nothing but talk a good fight.
tr fox,
It is sad, but true. MANY do not even TALK a good fight.
I am active in some shooting sports. When talking with fellow shooters, it angers me when I ask them what they have done, to protect our gun rights. I have found that MANY have NEVER written a letter, made a phone call, or even sent an email to their representatives, concerning gun rights. They come back with, "I'm doing my part, I'm a member of the NRA."
(Not going there.....this time [;)])
I try to explain that, to BE their "representative" constituents have to TELL them what they want done. (NOT that the reps will listen, mind you) But without your input, they will do what they THINK is best for us. Which, as we all know, isn't always in our (gun owners) best interest. I feel like I'm beating my head against a wall.
Because they still have access to their AR-15s, their handguns, their shotguns (unlike some other states, cities) they don't see that there is any immediate actions necessary. I tell them to look at the cancerous laws coming from each coast, and how they are spreading. They don't see it. I'm about to give up. [V]
APATHY RUNS RAMPANT!!!
Sad to say I despise some of my fellow gun owners in regards to their lack of concern for their gun rights. Many of them greatly enjoy their gun rights and obviously want to keep those rights. Yet the majority of them seem as brain dead as a flat possum in the middle of the road when it comes to spending just a little time, money and effort to do a little fighting for their gun rights. They seem to think that, just as when they go to their kitchen sink faucet and turn the handle, that they will somehow, someway always have their gun rights. Or, if one day they find themselves with no gun rights, then they will get on the phone, just as they would do if their kitchen was suddenly without water, yell at someone and like magic soon their water and their gun rights would be restored.
When we do lose our gunrights, and if gun owners don't start working together we will, at least I can take grim satisfaction knowing that the majority of the gun owners who have lost their gun rights DESERVED IT.
Note to reader: If you don't do something, the very, very least of which would be to join and support one of the few national or even local pro-gun rights organizations, then YOU ARE ONE OF THE ONES I AM REFERRING TO.
The rights that we are given are very slowly being taken away and restricted from us. I believe it is a well thought out plan by you know who to acclimate the population to these freedoms so that most people don't realize it. At some point, once enough of our rights and freedoms have been taken away, the "strong arm" will do exactly that and we the "citizen" won't have any means of fighting back. Just some food for thought.
MM
Wow, maybe we could all get full-autos... and at Third World prices!
Our firearms may well be useless against a tyranny. The U.S. military has designed a radio dish to mount on Humvee's that emits radiation and gives pain to protestors, turn it up and it can cook them. What will a rifle do against that? They can get you silently in your sleep.
I have a M.S. in Electrical Engineering. All one would need to do to defend against such a device would be to place a piece of metal between himself and the device, or else simply dodge the beam, which no doubt is very small in angular size if it's emiitted from a parabolic dish.
quote:They also now have a high power laser capable of shooting down aircraft, missiles, and taking out other targets like humans. Imagine if the FBI got control of a laser in space and could vaporize someone with a 200 mile shot straight down with the click of a mouse?
A laser connected to the power grid, and placed close to the human target, might be able to draw enough power to accomplish this. A solar powered laser in Low Earth Orbit would not be able to do this.
quote:I think our firearms are outdated and getting useless with todays technology.
I disagree. For one thing, modern technology complements firearms (crimson trace lasers, modern optics, radioactive night sights, and a plethora of other examples). Second, a century-old hunting rifle can be deadly to some government thug in kevlar.
People are coming out of their wide awake nightmare, many of them knowing they could have stopped it, had they had the sense to fight, then.
It is an uphill battle, but despite political correctness, despite zero tolerance, despite schools trying to ramrod compliance down our children's throats, it is simply not happening.
What's so disgusting to me is that there is nothing a individual can do, even those that so strongly agree that our rights are slowly being diminished and truthfully, what have we done?
Yell, scream, kick...the Bill of Rights, the Constitution, all documents that are relevant to our way of being in this United States of Oppression are in one way or another twisted and broken. Far, far away are what you may consider your rights. Most would agree that we do not live in the democracy so framed by our forefathers. We live in a twisted version of it, sure. Be real.
Go to some of these states that already have tightened laws on gun control. Go to Washington D.C. (not even a state but somehow or another has borders as if it were such). I'm sure many can and will relate.
Don't go off on some tirade about "love it or leave it" as I have been in the military. I served as did my father.
I'm just saying that we are being beguiled into believing that what is done is best.
My answer to your question is that of many.
I would fight, I just would not do it openly and in someones sights. I learned a long time ago if out- manned or out-gunned, far better to duck and run to return better prepared.
What is really interesting is that your question brings to mind the movie "Red Dawn" except it would be our own government. Hmmm
What is even more interesting is that if that occurred, I think some piss-ant little wanna-be real country would take that golden opportunity to strike. (United we Stand...)
i think you are all missing the basic point. soldiers follow orders, so do police.
happiness is a warm gun, preferably preban
For those that never served one day as a soldier, this might make sense, however; soldiers take an oath, "to uphold and defend the constitution of the U.S. against all enemies foreign and domestic". Soldiers (real soldiers do not follow illegal orders) following the "I was just following orders" we hanged after WWII, did not fly then-does not fly now.
Police are a differnt kind of people. For the most part they are not honest. They believe they are the sole judge of right and wrong, if not they would enforce the laws, as they see the crimes before them. But instead they use excuses,for example, "the judges let them go as soon as we arrest them". Their job is not to be the judge, they are the police, most of them are confused on this issue. Most police deptartments are full of politics, who is related to who, who is kissing whose * etc. Furtheremore, here in Memphis for example, if you stay on the MPD for 20 years, you will be promoted to the Rank of Captain, on your 20th anniversary. This is why Memphis has so many Captains, that are so ignorant it is scary. Anyone that is honest, can read about police corruption all over the U.S., worse in many cases than MEXICO. What is the point to all this, well these guys, will gladly carry out the search, and seizure,and stealing as much as they can for themselves. Drugs and drug crime could not ever have grown like it has without the help of the police. Almost anyone can go to a big city in the US and see drug dealing, without the benefit of SPECIAL TRAINING, you might ask why with special training these cops can't. And if they can why don't they do the job they swore to do. Lazy, or getting a little on the side?
For those that never served one day as a soldier, this might make sense, however; soldiers take an oath, "to uphold and defend the constitution of the U.S. against all enemies foreign and domestic". Soldiers (real soldiers do not follow illegal orders) following the "I was just following orders" we hanged after WWII, did not fly then-does not fly now.
Ah, a soldier wouldn't partake in a gun consifcation?
Please explain the most RECENT mass example that was New Orleans.
WHY, if soldiers wouldn't, DID the NATIONAL GUARD help consifacate firearms?
Yeah. I will trust no one in uniform thank you. SHTF, MY trust goes to those whom I KNOW I can trust. A uniform won't mean MUCH then.
And NO, I am not attacking those that serve. Merely extending that I don't feel comfortable with this guys statement.
[
Ah, a soldier wouldn't partake in a gun consifcation?
Please explain the most RECENT mass example that was New Orleans.
WHY, if soldiers wouldn't, DID the NATIONAL GUARD help consifacate firearms? I believe that the question was regarding 25% of the military would fire upon the public, for no other reason than they were ordered to do so. Not gun confiscation. You have changed the topic, and somehow twisted this into partaking in gun confiscation (not consifcation-if that is what you meant). Martial law would have to be enacted for the regular military to be involved in civilian law enforcement. You have asked for my special knowledge regarding the actions of the national guard in N.O., I do not have an answer, I do not have the answer as to why one third of the police force vanished into thin air, you would need to ask this question to the gov. of LA, the Guard works for the Gov.,the police work for the city, etc. This type of question is a good example of people seeking answers to questions from a higher power, prehaps church may be good for your mind? Also it demonstrates your need to use other crazy arguments, such as, "if air travel is so safe why do planes crash?". Or, "If our food supply is safe, why do people die from eating bad food?" These are simple minded arguments that only make sense to those with a simple mind. These arguments do not focus on the 25% would shoot civilians just because they were ordered to do so [regarding the military].
]
Is this country worth getting killed over? No. No country is.
If things turn like this. I will just... LEAVE. I have a profession in medical field. I know 3 languages. I already have a green card in Canada. If there is a major crackdown here. I will simply move to Canada. Along with my savings. Just move from US banks to Canadian.
I will rent all my 4 properties here and take ALL money to Canada.
Make sure that USA doesn't get a SINGLE CENT from me other then property taxes. After I leave, outside of my 4 properties, the rest can go to hell. As long as I live here, I want this place to have strong economy and strong civil rights and that the constitution is upheld. Thats what I bought into when I came here.
If I am forced to leave. I don't care what happens to this place after I am outta here. I will not risk my life and my skin for guns.
However, I will vote with my feet and whatever money I have.
And y'all have fun and when you will once again whine about how bad things got - look in the mirror: YOU VOTED FOR REAGAN. YOU VOTED FOR BOTH BUSHes. Enjoy, have fun. Hope you have plenty of vaseline.
I am working, paying taxes, already sending some of my money accross the border. Getting ready to run if things get nasty. As far as my guns, I will sink them in Great Lakes, before I give them to the pigs.
ICE T Was right.