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It means a terrible war that given another 20 years would not have been fought. I hate that war more than any other war in history. The destruction and ill feelings it created plague the country to this day. While there is no Constitutional mechanism to leave the union, there is also no Constitutional mechanism to enforce participation (except today's federal matching funds). A strong central government is exactly what our forefathers did not want.
how many colleges or major league teams do you know that display all their losses? you know, like a home team game where you look up and see all the winning pennants and trophies behind glass and everyones so proud?
or when a modern major battle is won, how many soldiers do you decorate if they loose the battle? or even worse, the war?
yet, when you go down south, everyone displays the losing flag and remains proud.
its sorta like...why would anyone display a nazi flag and be a proud german?
its sad to think of all the death that occured. america shed its own blood inflicked on itself. if anything, the battle flag should be displayed in museums to remind us never to let it happen again, yet southereners swear it will rise again and boast of its rebel cause. so, displaying it today is done for the wrong reason.
the sotherern battle flag should be outlawed and returned to its rightful place. trampled under the foot of old glory.
its my opinion and im sticking to it.
Retired Naval Aviation
Former Member U.S. Navy Shooting Team
Former NSSA All American
Navy Distinguished Pistol Shot
MO, CT, VA.
A part of history - a terrible time when the USofA fought thmselves - that must be preserved. Those who do not learn from the past are destined to repeat it.... sounds familiar to me....
It will mean different things to different people- including people that have highjacked it to their own purposes. HOWEVER- I would point out that the flag shown is NOT the Confederate Flag- it is the flag of the Confederate ARMY- the Battle Flag. There were at LEAST 4 different flags of the Conderate Govt (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confederate_States_of_America) including the solid blue w/ a white star- the Bonnie Blue Flag. To me, it is a reminder of family heritage. To others, a symbol of racism. Different strokes for different folks.
It has always stood for Southern Pride and our fight for States' Rights.
Agreed.
However, if "they" want it to stand for White Power, etc., that is just fine with me.
This attitude is why so many have a problem with the flag. It has been abused by groups who have distorted it's symbolism.[:(!] It is not about white power, it is not about race, and the Civil War was not about slavery or "white vs. black". Do your research. Many blacks, willingly I might add, fought, and fought bravely, on the side of the Confederacy.
I fly mine every day. I put it out in the morning, and take it in at night. If it makes "them" angry...good!
Do you fly the flag to make "them" angry, or do you fly it for pride? One motive is pure, while the other is not.
Southern born, Southern breed bred, when I'm gone...I'm Southern Dead!
Another thing I see and reaffirmed by some here is Southern bone headed stubbornness.
The south could have easily won this war if there had been a brain anywhere in Virginia.
How? By recognizing the simple fact the physical engagements only bought time for the political outcomes to be played out!
The war was to be won or lost in London and Paris as played by Richmond and Washington DC.
History students know the war was not about slavery.
An economic war in which slavery, based on an unfair labor cost advantage to the north was the imposition of th federal government on State's rights.
Simply put, it was a war of northern aggression.
A war to impose northern terms of commerce on southern states.
Lincoln never intended to free the slaves.
Well, he did but not so they could become fellow citizens.
His and northern intention was to deport them back to Africa.
Why the change of heart?
He was about to lose the war in London and Paris.
When the British and French announced the war was between two independent nations and not an insurrection as the north insisted and they intended to ignore the Union blockade the war was a hair away from ending.
In the most important battle of the war Lincoln dropped an A bomb with the Emancipation Proclamation.
This meant England and France would recognize a slave nation and he knew they could not.
Where Richmond lost the war it could have won was not immediately freeing the slaves (or announcing it was done pending the ending of the war).
This one act would have given England and France the excuse to ignore the blockade (Union ships would not have dared fire on them and draw Britain and France into the war as Confederate allies).
This bone headed refusal to see their opportunity to win the war for the sake of Southern Pride in lifestyle was one of the biggest blunders in American history.
The many fine brave men that had earned the right for the South to be free from Northern imposition and the military leadership that bought the time to achieve the victory that was their's for the taken was thrown away out of stubborn arrogance.
The south proved it would insist upon throwing away certain victory for the defeat it received after it refused the victory it's men had won.
Southern Pride? In what? Throwing away certain victory????
As for the flag that on the field of battle won its acclaim I repeat it has been tainted by narrow minded hateful racist who have hijacked it and tarnished its reputation to further their cause of division and exclusion.
I repeat, blame those lowlife morons preaching their message of hate that disgraced the noble men who actually fought under a worthy banner.
The Yankees did not win that war. The Confederacy had only to take the victory but chose defeat instead.
That is not pride, that is embarrassing.
Wulfmann
"Fools learn from their own mistakes. I learn from the mistakes of others"
Otto von Bismarck
There is no such thing as a "rebel flag." The flag depicted, the Confederate battle flag, is historical flag carried by American troops into battle. It is just as significant as any other historical flag.
i see this come up at least once a year. heres the deal, that flag may have symbolized something different till the south lost the war(yes surrender means lost no matter what you think, shortly thereafter it was coopted by those that used it as a stain on americas honor and continue to use it as such. the fact that you do not see this doesnt mean everyone else is wrong, it means you are blind.
i do not see the battle flag of virginia as being anything other than a racist rag at this point. noone wants to take it back from the haters all i hear is why cant they see what it really means. today it means racism all those guys with the burning crosses and the sheets made sure it would stand for all time alongside the swatstika as a symbol of racism
the swatstika also diddnt start out as a symbol of racism but that what it became after it was coopted by madmen. you need to face up to who turned it into a racist symbol and tell them to give you back a honorable symbol, but i'll bet after 100 years of not facing the truth you wont get them to give it up too easily
Amendment I
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.
It makes me think of the 200,000 dead americans that should have never died. The war was not fought over slaves, it was fought over taxes. Both of those things could have been righted through diplomacy rather then so many wasted lives. And it is just another bloody taint in american history, one amonge thousands great and small used as justifications to kill and slaughter.
we all agree on what it means to us, but unfortunately that does not count in today's p.c. world, blacks have claimed it is racism therefore it is
they have also staked claim to the noose, it doesn't matter that millions of people of various races met their end by hanging, it only pertains to them
no other ethnic race nickname is as racist as the "N" word, every other nickname is acceptable even here
put one up and walk through the hood, i'll pick you up on the other side if you can make it
quote:Originally posted by 1911a1fan
we all agree on what it means to us, but unfortunately that does not count in today's p.c. world, blacks have claimed it is racism therefore it is
they have also staked claim to the noose, it doesn't matter that millions of people of various races met their end by hanging, it only pertains to them
no other ethnic race nickname is as racist as the "N" word, every other nickname is acceptable even here
put one up and walk through the hood, i'll pick you up on the other side if you can make it
Am I allowed to wear SWAT gear and use the SWAT shield? If so, I will, considering you mean Saint Louis.
quote:Originally posted by brickmaster1248
quote:put one up and walk through the hood, i'll pick you up on the other side if you can make it
ill do it as long as i can go through between the hours of 7a.m and noon! because we all know the"hood" dont wake up to early
He lives in STL, or nearby. I hear him talk about the chain of rocks sometimes, so he is up there.
And in STL, they dont care WHEN they are up. They still shootin' ya and getting their money.
my heritage of which i'm proud. my forefathers fought and some died under this flag. the flag beneath the crossed battle flags is the flag of their unit, the First Missouri Infantry C.S.A. all they hoped for was that the constitution as it was written be upheld. now look at us as tyrants have taken over under a disguise, and power has shifted to corporate, banks and wealth controlling the sheeple[V][;)][V]
quote:Originally posted by brickmaster1248
quote:Don't blame black people for seeing what became of that misuse. Blame those that did it.
why are they not smart enough to place blame where it belongs?
They did--white redneck trash.
quote:Originally posted by triple223tap
What it means to me. Well, I've lived in the South since 1958, and to me it means rednecks, pickemups, cheap beer, and BO.
+ 1,000,000
quote:Originally posted by tomahawk
thank you FrancF[;)][:D][:D][:D]
and kimi, that would be another missouri flag
the flg of quantrills missouri irregulars[;)][:D][:D][:D]
It was just our luck, Tomahawk, that we had only one officer that was up to Lincoln's standards. Gotta love those Missouri boys! BTW, the flag frank posted was not lost on me. [;)]
I spent time in Alabama on a baseball scholarship in 1983 . 17 years old out of high school from a small Upstate NY town. Everyone of those guys at that school in Alabama hated me because I was a Yankee from NY. I never could understand after 120 plus years after they got their butts whooped why they still hated me for it. I'll never forget the way I was treated .
quote:Originally posted by HAIRY
quote:Originally posted by jma2006
I had ancestors die under that flag in the 33rd Va Intry and 7th Va Cavalry. They died for what they believed in.
I feel Honor, Respect and Graditude.And a lot of Nazi SS men died believing in what they were fighting for. They were wrong, too.
Fighting for Constitutional States Rights was wrong?
Hmmm. Go figure.
Equating the motivations of many confederates to the Nazi SS is kinda out there, even for you hairy.
quote:Originally posted by lt496
quote:Originally posted by HAIRY
quote:Originally posted by jma2006
I had ancestors die under that flag in the 33rd Va Intry and 7th Va Cavalry. They died for what they believed in.
I feel Honor, Respect and Graditude.And a lot of Nazi SS men died believing in what they were fighting for. They were wrong, too.
Fighting for Constitutional States Rights was wrong?
Hmmm. Go figure.
Equating the motivations of many confederates to the Nazi SS is kinda out there, even for you hairy.
HAiry does not like the Nazi far left that he sees in himself.
quote:Originally posted by kimi
quote:Originally posted by lt496
quote:Originally posted by HAIRY
quote:Originally posted by jma2006
I had ancestors die under that flag in the 33rd Va Intry and 7th Va Cavalry. They died for what they believed in.
I feel Honor, Respect and Graditude.And a lot of Nazi SS men died believing in what they were fighting for. They were wrong, too.
Fighting for Constitutional States Rights was wrong?
Hmmm. Go figure.
Equating the motivations of many confederates to the Nazi SS is kinda out there, even for you hairy.
HAiry does not like the Nazi far left that he sees in himself.
quote:Originally posted by lt496
quote:Originally posted by kimi
quote:Originally posted by lt496
quote:Originally posted by HAIRY
quote:Originally posted by jma2006
I had ancestors die under that flag in the 33rd Va Intry and 7th Va Cavalry. They died for what they believed in.
I feel Honor, Respect and Graditude.And a lot of Nazi SS men died believing in what they were fighting for. They were wrong, too.
Fighting for Constitutional States Rights was wrong?
Hmmm. Go figure.
Equating the motivations of many confederates to the Nazi SS is kinda out there, even for you hairy.
HAiry does not like the Nazi far left that he sees in himself.
Whenever the losers need a symbol to show their frustration, they hoist either the Nazi flag or the Rebel flag (take your choice). It isn't difficult to figure out who supports flying them. Yee Haw!!!
I'm surprised none of you are supporting your wearing of the dunce caps and sheets too. Down here, they do, although their faces are unmasked when they parade. If they had some red, green and black polka dots on the sheets, they'd look like the clowns they are.[;)][;)]
Comments
It means a terrible war that given another 20 years would not have been fought. I hate that war more than any other war in history. The destruction and ill feelings it created plague the country to this day. While there is no Constitutional mechanism to leave the union, there is also no Constitutional mechanism to enforce participation (except today's federal matching funds). A strong central government is exactly what our forefathers did not want.
A very bad episode in American history.
or when a modern major battle is won, how many soldiers do you decorate if they loose the battle? or even worse, the war?
yet, when you go down south, everyone displays the losing flag and remains proud.
its sorta like...why would anyone display a nazi flag and be a proud german?
its sad to think of all the death that occured. america shed its own blood inflicked on itself. if anything, the battle flag should be displayed in museums to remind us never to let it happen again, yet southereners swear it will rise again and boast of its rebel cause. so, displaying it today is done for the wrong reason.
the sotherern battle flag should be outlawed and returned to its rightful place. trampled under the foot of old glory.
its my opinion and im sticking to it.
Former Member U.S. Navy Shooting Team
Former NSSA All American
Navy Distinguished Pistol Shot
MO, CT, VA.
It has always stood for Southern Pride and our fight for States' Rights.
Agreed.
However, if "they" want it to stand for White Power, etc., that is just fine with me.
This attitude is why so many have a problem with the flag. It has been abused by groups who have distorted it's symbolism.[:(!] It is not about white power, it is not about race, and the Civil War was not about slavery or "white vs. black". Do your research. Many blacks, willingly I might add, fought, and fought bravely, on the side of the Confederacy.
I fly mine every day. I put it out in the morning, and take it in at night. If it makes "them" angry...good!
Do you fly the flag to make "them" angry, or do you fly it for pride? One motive is pure, while the other is not.
Southern born, Southern breed bred, when I'm gone...I'm Southern Dead!
The south could have easily won this war if there had been a brain anywhere in Virginia.
How? By recognizing the simple fact the physical engagements only bought time for the political outcomes to be played out!
The war was to be won or lost in London and Paris as played by Richmond and Washington DC.
History students know the war was not about slavery.
An economic war in which slavery, based on an unfair labor cost advantage to the north was the imposition of th federal government on State's rights.
Simply put, it was a war of northern aggression.
A war to impose northern terms of commerce on southern states.
Lincoln never intended to free the slaves.
Well, he did but not so they could become fellow citizens.
His and northern intention was to deport them back to Africa.
Why the change of heart?
He was about to lose the war in London and Paris.
When the British and French announced the war was between two independent nations and not an insurrection as the north insisted and they intended to ignore the Union blockade the war was a hair away from ending.
In the most important battle of the war Lincoln dropped an A bomb with the Emancipation Proclamation.
This meant England and France would recognize a slave nation and he knew they could not.
Where Richmond lost the war it could have won was not immediately freeing the slaves (or announcing it was done pending the ending of the war).
This one act would have given England and France the excuse to ignore the blockade (Union ships would not have dared fire on them and draw Britain and France into the war as Confederate allies).
This bone headed refusal to see their opportunity to win the war for the sake of Southern Pride in lifestyle was one of the biggest blunders in American history.
The many fine brave men that had earned the right for the South to be free from Northern imposition and the military leadership that bought the time to achieve the victory that was their's for the taken was thrown away out of stubborn arrogance.
The south proved it would insist upon throwing away certain victory for the defeat it received after it refused the victory it's men had won.
Southern Pride? In what? Throwing away certain victory????
As for the flag that on the field of battle won its acclaim I repeat it has been tainted by narrow minded hateful racist who have hijacked it and tarnished its reputation to further their cause of division and exclusion.
I repeat, blame those lowlife morons preaching their message of hate that disgraced the noble men who actually fought under a worthy banner.
The Yankees did not win that war. The Confederacy had only to take the victory but chose defeat instead.
That is not pride, that is embarrassing.
Wulfmann
"Fools learn from their own mistakes. I learn from the mistakes of others"
Otto von Bismarck
i do not see the battle flag of virginia as being anything other than a racist rag at this point. noone wants to take it back from the haters all i hear is why cant they see what it really means. today it means racism all those guys with the burning crosses and the sheets made sure it would stand for all time alongside the swatstika as a symbol of racism
the swatstika also diddnt start out as a symbol of racism but that what it became after it was coopted by madmen. you need to face up to who turned it into a racist symbol and tell them to give you back a honorable symbol, but i'll bet after 100 years of not facing the truth you wont get them to give it up too easily
the southern battle flag should be outlawed
How Constitutional.
Amendment I
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.
they have also staked claim to the noose, it doesn't matter that millions of people of various races met their end by hanging, it only pertains to them
no other ethnic race nickname is as racist as the "N" word, every other nickname is acceptable even here
put one up and walk through the hood, i'll pick you up on the other side if you can make it
we all agree on what it means to us, but unfortunately that does not count in today's p.c. world, blacks have claimed it is racism therefore it is
they have also staked claim to the noose, it doesn't matter that millions of people of various races met their end by hanging, it only pertains to them
no other ethnic race nickname is as racist as the "N" word, every other nickname is acceptable even here
put one up and walk through the hood, i'll pick you up on the other side if you can make it
Am I allowed to wear SWAT gear and use the SWAT shield? If so, I will, considering you mean Saint Louis.
Other than that, Heck no. [:D][:D]
ill do it as long as i can go through between the hours of 7a.m and noon! because we all know the"hood" dont wake up to early
quote:put one up and walk through the hood, i'll pick you up on the other side if you can make it
ill do it as long as i can go through between the hours of 7a.m and noon! because we all know the"hood" dont wake up to early
He lives in STL, or nearby. I hear him talk about the chain of rocks sometimes, so he is up there.
And in STL, they dont care WHEN they are up. They still shootin' ya and getting their money.
referring to malcomX of course, if you ever want to pizz one off wearing a malcomX shirt or hat just ask them "who is malcom 10"
I feel Honor, Respect and Graditude.
and kimi, that would be another missouri flag
the flg of quantrills missouri irregulars[;)][:D][:D][:D]
quote:Don't blame black people for seeing what became of that misuse. Blame those that did it.
why are they not smart enough to place blame where it belongs?
They did--white redneck trash.
I had ancestors die under that flag in the 33rd Va Intry and 7th Va Cavalry. They died for what they believed in.
I feel Honor, Respect and Graditude.And a lot of Nazi SS men died believing in what they were fighting for. They were wrong, too.
What it means to me. Well, I've lived in the South since 1958, and to me it means rednecks, pickemups, cheap beer, and BO.
+ 1,000,000
thank you FrancF[;)][:D][:D][:D]
and kimi, that would be another missouri flag
the flg of quantrills missouri irregulars[;)][:D][:D][:D]
It was just our luck, Tomahawk, that we had only one officer that was up to Lincoln's standards. Gotta love those Missouri boys! BTW, the flag frank posted was not lost on me. [;)]
quote:Originally posted by jma2006
I had ancestors die under that flag in the 33rd Va Intry and 7th Va Cavalry. They died for what they believed in.
I feel Honor, Respect and Graditude.And a lot of Nazi SS men died believing in what they were fighting for. They were wrong, too.
Fighting for Constitutional States Rights was wrong?
Hmmm. Go figure.
Equating the motivations of many confederates to the Nazi SS is kinda out there, even for you hairy.
RIGHT ON BOBSKI !!!!!!!!!!!!!
Hmmm. Two members out in the open for a government ban on an expression of constitutional free speech.
Interesting to see where people are coming from......and moderately disturbing.
And we wonder why the government is often out of control.
quote:Originally posted by HAIRY
quote:Originally posted by jma2006
I had ancestors die under that flag in the 33rd Va Intry and 7th Va Cavalry. They died for what they believed in.
I feel Honor, Respect and Graditude.And a lot of Nazi SS men died believing in what they were fighting for. They were wrong, too.
Fighting for Constitutional States Rights was wrong?
Hmmm. Go figure.
Equating the motivations of many confederates to the Nazi SS is kinda out there, even for you hairy.
HAiry does not like the Nazi far left that he sees in himself.
quote:Originally posted by lt496
quote:Originally posted by HAIRY
quote:Originally posted by jma2006
I had ancestors die under that flag in the 33rd Va Intry and 7th Va Cavalry. They died for what they believed in.
I feel Honor, Respect and Graditude.And a lot of Nazi SS men died believing in what they were fighting for. They were wrong, too.
Fighting for Constitutional States Rights was wrong?
Hmmm. Go figure.
Equating the motivations of many confederates to the Nazi SS is kinda out there, even for you hairy.
HAiry does not like the Nazi far left that he sees in himself.
That would certainly explain it.
quote:Originally posted by kimi
quote:Originally posted by lt496
quote:Originally posted by HAIRY
quote:Originally posted by jma2006
I had ancestors die under that flag in the 33rd Va Intry and 7th Va Cavalry. They died for what they believed in.
I feel Honor, Respect and Graditude.And a lot of Nazi SS men died believing in what they were fighting for. They were wrong, too.
Fighting for Constitutional States Rights was wrong?
Hmmm. Go figure.
Equating the motivations of many confederates to the Nazi SS is kinda out there, even for you hairy.
HAiry does not like the Nazi far left that he sees in himself.
That would certainly explain it.
In a nutshell.
No pun intended I'm sure.[:o)][:D]
I'm surprised none of you are supporting your wearing of the dunce caps and sheets too. Down here, they do, although their faces are unmasked when they parade. If they had some red, green and black polka dots on the sheets, they'd look like the clowns they are.[;)][;)]