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Winchester Model 94, 55, & 64 Survey update

1910111315

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    AirCommandoAirCommando Member Posts: 40 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Bert, here is the info on my 1894 SRC.

    1. 870481
    2. 25-35 W.C.F.
    3. Carbine
    4. MODEL 1894
    -WINCHESTER-
    Trade Mark, (etc) (Can't see your pics of types)
    5. No
    6. No
    7. Nickel Steel
    8. Yes
    9-14 N/A

    Hope this helps, Terry
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    spider65spider65 Member Posts: 40 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I have 2 mdl 94s both are 32win spl #1753958,#2543919
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    Bert H.Bert H. Member Posts: 11,279 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by spider65
    I have 2 mdl 94s both are 32win spl #1753958,#2543919


    Hello Lyle,

    Serial number 1753958 is a late in the year 1950 vintage gun. It was manufactured during the transition from the long forend stock to the short forend stock. Which type does it have?

    Serial 2543919 is a 1962 vintage gun.

    Thank you for participating in my research survey[:)]
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    spider65spider65 Member Posts: 40 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    it has the short one almost identical to the otherquote:Originally posted by Bert H.
    quote:Originally posted by spider65
    I have 2 mdl 94s both are 32win spl #1753958,#2543919


    Hello Lyle,

    Serial number 1753958 is a late in the year 1950 vintage gun. It was manufactured during the transition from the long forend stock to the short forend stock. Which type does it have?

    Serial 2543919 is a 1962 vintage gun.

    Thank you for participating in my research survey[:)]
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    mikey888fmikey888f Member Posts: 26 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    bert, i'm looking for a 1939 year 94. does 1,202,446 fit that year? thanks, mike
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    TRAP55TRAP55 Member Posts: 8,275 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Mike, yes it does, serial numbers for 1939 started at 1,198,406 and ended at 1,216,165.
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    kylewkylew Member Posts: 95 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Bert, Here is one I got from Paul.V today. I've been working on this one for a while and you may have seen it before. I been staring at it for a couple of years.

    Model 1894 rifle
    32 W.S. Ser # 403,358
    26 round matted barrel, matting stops at the rear sight dovetail
    sling swivels, engraved factory for sure as the rec proof mark is down off the side to avoid the engraving. Barrel proof is in a circle in the engraving that goes forward to the rear sight. We think it was matted and engraved at the same time.
    Full length mag tube.
    Straight grip checkered stocks. Type H. 3X wood.
    Nickel or silver plated crescent butt plate
    Front sight. One I have never seen before. It is a blade type with a thin blade with a round rod at the top. Half of this blade is copper/bronze plated to make it appear as a bead sight when looking down the barrel. The address on the sight says W.F. SHEARE TACOMA WASH. on the other side it has a patent date PAT. JUNE 12,1900.
    Rear sight is a ramp type with a thin globe and a very small v notch in the center of the globe. The bottom half of the globe has a plate with the notch in it. Much like a Beech sight. No name or date that i can see. It is 2-3/16" from the center of the dovetail to the back if the globe.

    We think it went to the factory for an R&R It received a new barrel and the matting and engraving then. Finish on all is 90% or so. Very nice gun. The prettiest one I own. The Days have looked it over and they thought it all looked correct. I wonder about the sights though. I just don't know enough.
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    Bert H.Bert H. Member Posts: 11,279 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Kyle,

    I seem to remember the rifle... vaguely.

    The Sheard front sight is correct. Winchester installed them on special order right around the turn of the century. Sheard eventually sold all of his patents to Marbles, and they continued to make the sights. I am not sure what type of rear sight you are describing. Please post a picture of it, or send pictures directly to me (Win1885@msn.com)
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    potreepotree Member Posts: 1 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Hello - I am researching a 1894 Winchester SRC in 30WCF with no visible serial number. The barrel inscriptions are nearly worn off, so while I could believe the serial number was scrubbed off, the receiver contours compare well enough to the pictures in your posting, I believe it could have left the factory without a serial number.
    2. Caliber marked on barrel is 30 W.C.F. The "3" is almost worn off.
    3. The steel buttplate is crescent shaped, no diamond around screw.
    4. The pictures describing tang markings 5,6,7 are no longer available. Between the two tang screws and dashes, all caps is "WINCHESTER" . Under WINCHESTER, all caps is "TRADE MARK REG.IN U.S. PAT. OFF."
    5. Never been drilled or tapped.
    6. No visible martial marks that I'm familiar with, no cartouches in wood.
    7. ? steel. Only letters readable on barrel are "N U.S.A." AND "3 AUGUST 2"
    8. Does have saddle ring.
    12. Solid frame
    13. Uncheckered wood. one sling loop in butt. Wood has varnish on top of dirty, unprepared wood. Milled front barrel band. Bright new front barrel band (non-original). Flaking blue under both bareel bands, magazine tube under forend dull blue. Older style rear sight, numbers and graduations worn off.

    Is there an internal serial number that I can look for or a means of finding the year of production? Thank you
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    Bert H.Bert H. Member Posts: 11,279 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by potree
    Hello - I am researching a 1894 Winchester SRC in 30WCF with no visible serial number. The barrel inscriptions are nearly worn off, so while I could believe the serial number was scrubbed off, the receiver contours compare well enough to the pictures in your posting, I believe it could have left the factory without a serial number.
    2. Caliber marked on barrel is 30 W.C.F. The "3" is almost worn off.
    3. The steel buttplate is crescent shaped, no diamond around screw.
    4. The pictures describing tang markings 5,6,7 are no longer available. Between the two tang screws and dashes, all caps is "WINCHESTER" . Under WINCHESTER, all caps is "TRADE MARK REG.IN U.S. PAT. OFF."
    5. Never been drilled or tapped.
    6. No visible martial marks that I'm familiar with, no cartouches in wood.
    7. ? steel. Only letters readable on barrel are "N U.S.A." AND "3 AUGUST 2"
    8. Does have saddle ring.
    12. Solid frame
    13. Uncheckered wood. one sling loop in butt. Wood has varnish on top of dirty, unprepared wood. Milled front barrel band. Bright new front barrel band (non-original). Flaking blue under both bareel bands, magazine tube under forend dull blue. Older style rear sight, numbers and graduations worn off.

    Is there an internal serial number that I can look for or a means of finding the year of production? Thank you


    Your Model 1894 orignally had a serial number on it (as did all of them that left the factory for commercial sales). From your description, your gun has heavy wear to the metal surfaces, or it has been buffed & polished at some point and refinished.

    The upper tang marking on your gun was in use between serial numbers 450,000 - 750,000 (1910 - 1915).
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    32-20onr32-20onr Member Posts: 7 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I have a Model 1894 winchester 38-55 serial LL47L3, crecent steel buttplate 26" octagon barrel. Trying to find the year it was made. Can not find any info on the serial number at all. Please help. Thanks
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    Bert H.Bert H. Member Posts: 11,279 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by 32-20onr
    I have a Model 1894 winchester 38-55 serial LL47L3, crecent steel buttplate 26" octagon barrel. Trying to find the year it was made. Can not find any info on the serial number at all. Please help. Thanks


    The serial number is actually "114713", and it was manufactured in May of 1901.
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    32-20onr32-20onr Member Posts: 7 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Wow! That is impressive! Thank you. Now my next decision is to decide whether to restore this nice rifle. At some point in time someone tried to remove the bluing. It still looks nice and functions very well with nice rifling. The forword stock is in good condition for the age but the butt stock has been repaired long ago and does not look safe to shoot, though I do not know how much this rifle kicks to make a good judgment on that.
    It was a retirement gift from my grandfather who received it as partial payment on a 1952 International pickup. He never shot it. It has been in a gun cabinet for decades.
    I would love to put down a nice Alabama buck with it in the near future. What a story that would be!
    Thanks again.
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    rwgrwg Member Posts: 14 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Hello Bert,
    I would like to enter my recently aquired Mod 94 into your database so here goes.
    1 1520272
    2 30 WCF
    3 flat checkered steel
    4 blank
    5 drilled & tapped, very neat appearing in proper location with plug
    screws. Not factory?
    6 no
    7 proof steel
    8 no
    9 n/a
    10 n/a
    11 flat band
    12 n/a
    13 n/a
    14 n/a
    Would like to add that the forend on my 94 is of the long style and extends approx. 2" past the center band.
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    Bert H.Bert H. Member Posts: 11,279 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by rwg
    Hello Bert,
    I would like to enter my recently aquired Mod 94 into your database so here goes.
    1 1520272
    2 30 WCF
    3 flat checkered steel
    4 blank
    5 drilled & tapped, very neat appearing in proper location with plug
    screws. Not factory?
    6 no
    7 proof steel
    8 no
    9 n/a
    10 n/a
    11 flat band
    12 n/a
    13 n/a
    14 n/a
    Would like to add that the forend on my 94 is of the long style and extends approx. 2" past the center band.


    The drilled & tapped receiver holes could be original (special order), but I can not say for sure without examining them. Everything else about your 1948 vintage flat-band carbine is normal.

    Thanks[:)]
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    rwgrwg Member Posts: 14 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Bert H.
    quote:Originally posted by rwg
    Hello Bert,
    I would like to enter my recently aquired Mod 94 into your database so here goes.
    1 1520272
    2 30 WCF
    3 flat checkered steel
    4 blank
    5 drilled & tapped, very neat appearing in proper location with plug
    screws. Not factory?
    6 no
    7 proof steel
    8 no
    9 n/a
    10 n/a
    11 flat band
    12 n/a
    13 n/a
    14 n/a
    Would like to add that the forend on my 94 is of the long style and extends approx. 2" past the center band.


    The drilled & tapped receiver holes could be original (special order), but I can not say for sure without examining them. Everything else about your 1948 vintage flat-band carbine is normal.

    Thanks[:)]

    Thanks Bert for your data, much appreciated. Oh, and I need to mention that the carbine and I are the same age! Vintage year no doubt LOL.
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    kylewkylew Member Posts: 95 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Hey Bert, I was in Denver last week and found a carbine you may be interested in.
    Ser # 1342899 30 WCF
    Std eastern carbine, serrated flat butt plate, sling swivels, The front one is missing but it appears that it did not fit the mag tube but was on a second band right behind the forearm barrel band. It does have two Canadian proof marks. It's a "C" with the three lines through the center. The two are different size, one on the bottom front left side of the receiver,(smaller 3/8" dia C). The larger one is on the left side of the butt stock centered 2" from the butt plate.(1/2"dia) Both are oriented (rotated) about 90 deg CCW. I assume from the coast watchers.
    Condition about 60%, missing chips of wood and spotted bluing. Missing hood on the front ramp sight. Replaced rear sight. All screws untouched as best I can tell.

    I now have an honest WW2 carbine. I met a friend of yours says you stop and see him often. BTW Paul V's health is getting worse. I had lunch with him today. Kyle
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    kylewkylew Member Posts: 95 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Oops, I also picked up an 86 straight grip deluxe 3X matted barrel 85% 33wcf with a box of org ammo and a couple of other treasures. K
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    Bert H.Bert H. Member Posts: 11,279 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by kylew
    Hey Bert, I was in Denver last week and found a carbine you may be interested in.
    Ser # 1342899 30 WCF
    Std eastern carbine, serrated flat butt plate, sling swivels, The front one is missing but it appears that it did not fit the mag tube but was on a second band right behind the forearm barrel band. It does have two Canadian proof marks. It's a "C" with the three lines through the center. The two are different size, one on the bottom front left side of the receiver,(smaller 3/8" dia C). The larger one is on the left side of the butt stock centered 2" from the butt plate.(1/2"dia) Both are oriented (rotated) about 90 deg CCW. I assume from the coast watchers.
    Condition about 60%, missing chips of wood and spotted bluing. Missing hood on the front ramp sight. Replaced rear sight. All screws untouched as best I can tell.

    I now have an honest WW2 carbine. I met a friend of yours says you stop and see him often. BTW Paul V's health is getting worse. I had lunch with him today. Kyle


    Hello Kyle,

    What you have is a PCMR (Pacific Coast Militia Rangers) Carbine, and it is now the highest serial number in my survey of PCMR Carbines. Per the PR records, it was serialized July 29th, 1942, less than one month before production of the Model 94 was suspended until November of 1944.

    Can you send me some pictures of it? Does it have a Type-7 upper tang marking and not drilled & tapped for a tang sight? Please send me an email.

    I am sorry to hear the Paul's health is declining so quickly. I just saw and spoke with him in Reno last month.
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    kylewkylew Member Posts: 95 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I will try and get you some photos. I may need to send them directly to you. Paul and Inez were in Sacramento at the antique truck show after Reno and she developed a clot and almost did not make it home. I call her mom. Those two and their boys are some of my very dearest friends. It is very hard to watch their impending exit. Kyle
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    Bert H.Bert H. Member Posts: 11,279 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by kylew
    I will try and get you some photos. I may need to send them directly to you. Paul and Inez were in Sacramento at the antique truck show after Reno and she developed a clot and almost did not make it home. I call her mom. Those two and their boys are some of my very dearest friends. It is very hard to watch their impending exit. Kyle


    Kyle,

    Please do send them directly to me.

    I understand your trepidation... I too have watched too many friends and acquaintances go dowhhill and slip away in the past few years[:(]
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    oakridgeoakridge Member Posts: 87 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Bert, A while back I sent you a list of 94's, 64's and 55's for your survey. I also previously owned a Model 64 rifle, cal. .32WS, ser. no. 1,114,731. It was a standard rifle in all respects. That's all the info I have. And, I'm not sure if I already submitted this to you.
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    oakridgeoakridge Member Posts: 87 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Bert, I think you mentioned surveying Model 65's. I also owned Model 65, cal. .218 Bee, ser. no. 1,004,840. Standard rifle. No other info.
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    Bert H.Bert H. Member Posts: 11,279 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    oakridge,

    Thanks for the update[:)]
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    Canuck56Canuck56 Member Posts: 10 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I have a pre-64 (I believe 1953 manufacture) if you are interested in info on something that new?
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    Bert H.Bert H. Member Posts: 11,279 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Canuck56
    I have a pre-64 (I believe 1953 manufacture) if you are interested in info on something that new?


    Yes, I am interested in all Model 55, 64, and 94s made in the years 1924 - 1963.
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    RRConductorRRConductor Member Posts: 37 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I just got a Winchester 94 with the following characteristics:

    1. S/N 1339517
    2. Cal 30 W.C.F.
    3. Serrated butt plate
    4. WINCHESTER / TRADE MARK / MADE IN U.S.A.
    5. No
    6. Canadian broad arrow (upside down) on receiver, butt, forend
    7. WINCHESTER PROOF STEEL on barrel
    8. No saddle ring
    9. N/A
    10. Yes
    11 - 14. N/A

    Attached to the butt stock is what appears to be the rear sling swivel from a Ross rifle. The forward sling swivel (from a No. 4 Enfield) is attached to the gun by means of a sheet metal band, 1/2 inch wide, held in place with an ordinary 10X24 1/2 inch bolt & nut. The sling is the standard British web Enfield sling with a Canadian maker's mark.

    One interesting feature of this rifle is that the stock has a beautiful fiddle-back grain to it. Not at all like the standard straight-grain walnut that you usually see.
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    Bert H.Bert H. Member Posts: 11,279 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by RRConductor
    I just got a Winchester 94 with the following characteristics:

    1. S/N 1339517
    2. Cal 30 W.C.F.
    3. Serrated butt plate
    4. WINCHESTER / TRADE MARK / MADE IN U.S.A.
    5. No
    6. Canadian broad arrow (upside down) on receiver, butt, forend
    7. WINCHESTER PROOF STEEL on barrel
    8. No saddle ring
    9. N/A
    10. Yes
    11 - 14. N/A

    Attached to the butt stock is what appears to be the rear sling swivel from a Ross rifle. The forward sling swivel (from a No. 4 Enfield) is attached to the gun by means of a sheet metal band, 1/2 inch wide, held in place with an ordinary 10X24 1/2 inch bolt & nut. The sling is the standard British web Enfield sling with a Canadian maker's mark.

    One interesting feature of this rifle is that the stock has a beautiful fiddle-back grain to it. Not at all like the standard straight-grain walnut that you usually see.


    Thank you very much for posting the information on your PCMR Carbine![:)]
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    Canuck56Canuck56 Member Posts: 10 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    What I have is a model 94, 30-30 Winchester
    Barrel stamp says; Made in New Haven Conn. U.S. of America
    Winchester proof steel

    Nothing on the tang and no screw for tang sight, steel cross checkered butt plate, no saddle ring.

    Serial number 1918323
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    Bert H.Bert H. Member Posts: 11,279 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Canuck56
    What I have is a model 94, 30-30 Winchester
    Barrel stamp says; Made in New Haven Conn. U.S. of America
    Winchester proof steel

    Nothing on the tang and no screw for tang sight, steel cross checkered butt plate, no saddle ring.

    Serial number 1918323


    Hello Canuck56,

    Your Model 94 is a 1952 vintage gun. Is it drilled & tapped on the upper left (rear) side of the receiver frame for a peep sight?
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    codenamepaulcodenamepaul Member Posts: 2,931
    edited November -1
    Bert-
    Just purchased a '94 for my son's Christmas present. I remembered your survey and recorded the info if you're still interested. I sent photos to your e-mail. Feel free to post in the interest of the members.

    S/N- 1338601 ('41 or '42) ???
    Serrated shotgun type butt plate

    The rest you can see in the photos. The wood appears to be refinished/urethaned (not original to my belief) The metal has not been refinished, that I can tell anyway. Your opinion is welcome and much appreciated. I paid $300 for it.
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    Bert H.Bert H. Member Posts: 11,279 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by codenamepaul
    Bert-
    Just purchased a '94 for my son's Christmas present. I remembered your survey and recorded the info if you're still interested. I sent photos to your e-mail. Feel free to post in the interest of the members.

    S/N- 1338601 ('41 or '42) ???
    Serrated shotgun type butt plate

    The rest you can see in the photos. The wood appears to be refinished/urethaned (not original to my belief) The metal has not been refinished, that I can tell anyway. Your opinion is welcome and much appreciated. I paid $300 for it.


    Paul,

    I received the pictures, and based on the serial number, it is a June 1942 vintage gun. It should have a "42" marked barrel. It is worth approximately 2X what you paid for it.
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    davehoff226davehoff226 Member Posts: 2 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Hi Bert,
    I came across your survey on Gun Broker when I was looking up information on a model 94 that I have so I decided to add the information from my gun to your list.
    I have serial number 1415725.
    It does have the letter S in front of the trigger on the bottom and some strange looking mark on the bottom tang.
    The underside of the barrel is marked 30WCF and has 47 on it as I guess that is the year of manufacture along with a T and some marks on the receiver.

    Please let me know anything that you find out about it as it is an interesting gun and I look forward to collecting more in the future.
    Thanks
    David



    1. The complete serial number (please, no partial serial numbers). 1415725
    2. The exact caliber stamp marking (see the pictures below for examples). 30WCF
    3. The specific type of butt plate, e.g. Carbine, serrated steel shotgun style, flat checkered steel, hard rubber, or the checkered steel plate with the widows peak and diamond surrounding the lower screw hole (see the pictures below). Shotgun checkered steel
    4. The type (style) of the upper tang marking, e.g. type 5, 6, or 7, or if it is blank (see the pictures below). NONE
    5. Is the receiver factory drilled & tapped for a peep sight? NO
    6. U.S. martial or PCMR marked guns? NO
    7. Nickel Steel or Proof Steel marked barrel? PROOF STEEL
    8. Does it have a saddle ring? NO
    9. If in the 1,200,000 - 1,270,000 serial range, is the bottom of the receiver marked with a "W"? N/A
    10. If in the 1,260,000 - 1,310,000 serial range, does the leading "1" digit look like an "L"? N/A
    11. If in the 1,370,000 - 1,560,000 serial range, does it have a flat-band or a milled front barrel band? FLAT BAND LONG WOOD FOREARM
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    Bert H.Bert H. Member Posts: 11,279 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Hello David,

    It appears that you have a standard Flat-band Carbine, and Yes, it was manufactured in the year 1947.

    The markings you see near the trigger and lower tang are inspections stamps.

    Is the hammer checkered (knurled) or is it serrated?
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    davehoff226davehoff226 Member Posts: 2 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    The hammer is serrated on this one.
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    destindondestindon Member Posts: 29 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Bert....Mkd 94 Carbine STAINLESS 32 W.S. 85% black paint on barrel,,0% on frame,,,shiny bore,,,nice wood,,fine shooting condition..proof marks rec and barrel ...80 yrs and liquidating Considering Julias or RIAC. Idea of range of $$ expected or advice on selling would be appreciated. Thanks...DD
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    Bert H.Bert H. Member Posts: 11,279 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by destindon
    Bert....Mkd 94 Carbine STAINLESS 32 W.S. 85% black paint on barrel,,0% on frame,,,shiny bore,,,nice wood,,fine shooting condition..proof marks rec and barrel ...80 yrs and liquidating Considering Julias or RIAC. Idea of range of $$ expected or advice on selling would be appreciated. Thanks...DD


    What is the serial number? Can you send me pictures of it?
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    yblockheadyblockhead Member Posts: 943 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Bert,
    PM sent. Please let me know if you got it. Thanks!
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    Bert H.Bert H. Member Posts: 11,279 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by yblockhead
    Bert,
    PM sent. Please let me know if you got it. Thanks!



    Yes, I did receive it, and thanks![^]
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    yblockheadyblockhead Member Posts: 943 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Bert, Here is another one for you. 2433176 .32 Win Special. No other details....yet. Thanks!
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