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It came back from Cody last week. I was not there. The gun came to me from a friend who was there, Paul. I assume he got it from Russ in a complex 5 gun trade. Paul really just likes 30 WCF and he knows I like 32's. Kyle
Bert, I'm going to look at another 94 that came from Cody. ser#400K has supposed factory engraved and matted barrel 3X wood. Paul said if it was letterable would be 6 fig apparently is that good. I'll let you know
quote:Originally posted by kylew
Bert, I'm going to look at another 94 that came from Cody. ser#400K has supposed factory engraved and matted barrel 3X wood. Paul said if it was letterable would be 6 fig apparently is that good. I'll let you know
Kyle,
I will need to see very clear close-up pictures of it to properly assess it.
quote:Originally posted by 53hawkeye
Hey Bert,
Nothing real pressing tonight so while on a cleaning mission I recorded all info pertinent to your inquiry.
Oldest first.
782769/ .30 W.C.F. / carbine style butt pl / type 4 / not drilled for Peep / 6. none marked
nickel steel / has saddle ring (and leather strap even)
1,633,154 / mod. 94 .30 W.C.F. / not known (customized) / none (customized) / not drilled
6. not mkd / proof steel / no saddle ring / milled bbl band
2,386,436 / mod. 94 30-30 Win. / chkd stl / no tang mkg / drilled for peep / prf stl / no saddle ring
2,474,484 / mod. 94 30-30 Win. / chkd stl / drilled for peep / prf stl / no saddle ring
2,558,376 / mod. 94 30-30 Win. / chkd stl / drilled for peep / prf stl / no saddle ring
Happy Trails
Hello Hawkeye,
Thank you very much for participating in my survey... every single one of them suveyed helps to fill in the giant puzzle.
1. Per the PRSRB, serial 782769 is a June 1915 vintage SRC.
2. Serial 1663154 is an early 1950 vintage standard Carbine. It would be very interesting to know if it has a "49" marked barrel or a "50" marked barrel.
3. Serial 2386436 is a late 1959 production Carbine
4. Serial 2474484 is a mid year 1961 production Carbine.
5. Serial 2558376 is a latter half of the year 1962 production Carbine.
I do not have verifiable records for the later made Model 94s, so the information I have given to you is my best estimate.
Where would I look for the 49 or 50 mark for carbine # 2? Hope it isn't engraved over.
Here are a couple pics of gun in question. My fil did the engraving. It was his personal '94. He was self taught. There wasn't much he didn't do. Engraving, scrimshaw, knifemaking, stockbuilding, ivory carving. He was an amazing person.
Posted - 05/24/2010 : 2:27:59 PM
quote:
Originally posted by kylew
Bert, First- Yes it has a type 7 tang mark. As far as the "War" guns go I have a couple from the WW1 years a couple from Korea and one from Vietnam years. Since WW2 generally is thought to have started on 8 Dec. 41 and ended on 9 Sept 45. I have kinda figured that the range would be from 1,305,000 to 1,345,000. Isn't 40,000 about the right number produced? And wasn't most of these made for the civilian guards- the one who watched our coasts for U boats and Japanese subs? I have read that these civilians were to shoot at any periscope spotted off the coast. I do know that the Japanese had big plans to launch chemical weapons on Washington DC and NYC. They had built several subs that carried 3 planes each the I-400 and I-401 were a couple of these. They were in route to the East coast when we bombed Japan. Kyle
Hello Kyle,
Given the time period you specify, the serial range you want to search for is 1303818 - 1343510 (December 1st, 1942 - September 28th, 1945).
Yes, 40,000 is very close to the number made during WW II, but very few of them were made for, or used by, civilian guard units. The only known WW II Model 94s that were specifically made for such use were the 2,500 that were ordered and delivered to the Pacific Coast Militia Rangers (P.C.M.R.) in the Candian Province of British Columbia. Those guns were all made and delivered in 1942 (serial number range 1317167 - 1342533).
During the WW II years, the bulk of the 40,000 guns were made in 1942 (29,882). That said, 1943 was the only year in which there was a Zero production number. In 1944, just (13) were made, all in November. Regular production resumed in June of 1945 at serial number 1343197, and ended with serial number 1352066 on December 29th, 1945
i was reading this post and i just wanted to know what the serial # would have been for the 13 made in 1944
and is it possible to find 1 of the 13 or are they all own by collectors
p.s
really find all this info very interesting keep it up Bert
thanks
quote:Originally posted by goatman1
i was reading this post and i just wanted to know what the serial # would have been for the 13 made in 1944 and is it possible to find 1 of the 13 or are they all own by collectors
p.s really find all this info very interesting keep it up Bert
thanks
Hello,
The (13) serial numbers that were manufactured in 1944 are 1343184 - 1343196. However, not all of them were Model 94s. In fact, of the (13) serial numbers, I suspect that most of them were Model 64s. The reason for my suspicion is that I have found just one of the (13) 1944 made serial numbers, and it is a Model 64 Deer Rifle. Keep in mind that the Model 64 was serial numbered entirely within the Model 94 sequence.
I have no idea who owns the one I found (it was in an auction listing), and I doubt very much that the other (12) are locked up in collections... more than likely they are simply in someone's gun cabinet.
quote:Originally posted by chipman
I have a model 94 serial # 2596926. What year was this made? Previous owner had installed a side mounted scope would this affect the value much?
Your Model 94 was made in early 1963, just before Winchester retooled and began manufacturing the new (not improved) version.
Yes, most definitely the side mounted scope affects the value... quite negatively. In fact, it permanently destroys any "collector" value, and relegates it to being nothing more than a "shooter" grade gun.
serial # 1017279
32 W.S.
Traditional curved steel butt plate
Type 5 upper tang
Not drilled & tapped
No special markings
Nickel steel barrel
Has sadle ring
I was wondering the DOM of it I'm a 3rd generation owner of it and plan to pass it down to the 4th generation when I go. Thanks
quote:Originally posted by lacr3am
I have a model 94 for you.
serial # 1017279
32 W.S.
Traditional curved steel butt plate
Type 5 upper tang
Not drilled & tapped
No special markings
Nickel steel barrel
Has sadle ring
I was wondering the DOM of it I'm a 3rd generation owner of it and plan to pass it down to the 4th generation when I go. Thanks
Hello and thank you for posting[:)].
Your Model 94 SRC was manufactured on February 24th, 1928, and it is completely standard.
i have one model 94 that fits your criteria, its serial number 1797256 has "MODEL 94 30-30 Win" on the barrel checkered metal buttplate. And if you could help me on these two it would be greatly appreciated. Winchester model 94 .32 W.S. #299476 nickel steel barrel with smokeless rear sight. and the other is a model 94 30-30 #397275 and is a 1/2 oct 1/2 rd bbl. thanks
quote:Originally posted by croweman0829
i have one model 94 that fits your criteria, its serial number 1797256 has "MODEL 94 30-30 Win" on the barrel checkered metal buttplate. And if you could help me on these two it would be greatly appreciated. Winchester model 94 .32 W.S. #299476 nickel steel barrel with smokeless rear sight. and the other is a model 94 30-30 #397275 and is a 1/2 oct 1/2 rd bbl. thanks
Your Model 94 is a 1951 vintage standard Carbine.
Serial 299476 is a February 1906 vintage Model 1894, and serial 397275 is a May 1908 vintage Model 1894 Rifle.
quote:Originally posted by croweman0829
hey bert got another one for you, serial #872751 checkered buttplate and and a 3/4 mag. whats your take on this one?
thanks,
manuel
Not enough information to formulate an accurate assesment. Is it a Rifle or a Carbine? If a Carbine, does it have a saddle ring? Caliber? Barrel length?
sorry i didn't put more info, kinda excited with the find and price! its a 30-30 carbine, no saddle ring oh and i made a mistake its a 2/3 mag. I'm pretty sure its standard carbine barrel length as i had it next to a .32 ws carbine and it was teh same length. Sorry if its kinda vague I'm going off of memory as i have to wait 10 days to pick up.[:(] I will definitely post pics when i have the gun in hand.
quote:Originally posted by croweman0829
sorry i didn't put more info, kinda excited with the find and price! its a 30-30 carbine, no saddle ring oh and i made a mistake its a 2/3 mag. I'm pretty sure its standard carbine barrel length as i had it next to a .32 ws carbine and it was teh same length. Sorry if its kinda vague I'm going off of memory as i have to wait 10 days to pick up.[:(] I will definitely post pics when i have the gun in hand.
Bert,
I found a 1931 Winchester 94 with a gunsight I am not sure is original. It is pictured below. Could you take a look and tell me what you think?
Thanks,
Pat
quote:Originally posted by maltbyp
Bert,
I found a 1931 Winchester 94 with a gunsight I am not sure is original. It is pictured below. Could you take a look and tell me what you think?
Thanks,
Pat
Most definitely not a factory original rear sight. What is the serial number on this Carbine?
What year did they switch from the "checkered" hammer to the serrated(lined)hammer? I saw a flat band 30-30 with the checkered hammer the other day and I was wondering if it was original or not. I didn't get the serial number, I'll have to check it out again.
What year did they switch from the "checkered" hammer to the serrated(lined)hammer? I saw a flat band 30-30 with the checkered hammer the other day and I was wondering if it was original or not. I didn't get the serial number, I'll have to check it out again.
Jon
Hello Jon,
Circa 1946. The early Flat-band carbines may be found with the old style hammer.
Bert,
I have been reading some of these post dating back a few years. If you are still researching, I have a S/N 1336130 handed down to me from my Dad. It is marked Model 94-30 W.C.F.- Serrated butt plate,Tang #7, Milled band,let me know if you want pictures. What year? and why are some people afraid to post S/n?
quote:Originally posted by steamburner
Bert,
I have been reading some of these post dating back a few years. If you are still researching, I have a S/N 1336130 handed down to me from my Dad. It is marked Model 94-30 W.C.F.- Serrated butt plate,Tang #7, Milled band,let me know if you want pictures. What year? and why are some people afraid to post S/n?
Hello,
Yes, I am still researching, and thank you very much for sharing the information on your Model 94 Carbine.
Serial number 1336130 was manufactured on June 3rd, 1942.
Most of the Model 94s that I have surveyed in that serial number range are PCMR (Pacific Coast Militia Ranger) Carbines. By chance does your Carbine have a broad arrow marking on the left front side of the receiver frame?
In regards to your question about why some people are afraid to post a serial number, it is my opinion that they suffer from ignorant paranioa.
steamburner, you can always trust Bert. I knew as soon as I posted I was wrong and 42 was the correct year. Are you looking to sell or just after info. I assume it's a carbine or is it perhaps a rifle?
quote:Originally posted by kylew
steamburner, you can always trust Bert. I knew as soon as I posted I was wrong and 42 was the correct year. Are you looking to sell or just after info. I assume it's a carbine or is it perhaps a rifle?
Good question Kyle, it's a lever action,looks like a rifle, what makes it a carbine? I have to visit the local gun shop first to have the scope removed and hopefully restore the value that Bert indicated the scope removed. Yes I think I will sell it. The wife hates guns in the house and my hunting days are past. Thanks, Ken
Steamburner, I need to read more carefully, You mention that it had milled bands. That makes it a carbine. A rifle would have the mag tube attached by a dovetail on the bottom of the barrel at the end of the tube. A rifle would also most likely have a 26" barrel. The carbine has the band that goes clear around the barrel. If you decide to sell it let me know when it goes up on the GB site. I may be interested depending on the condition etc. Kyle
Bert, Thank you for dating my gun, there is no PCM arrow on the side, does that mean it is not from the Pacific Coast Militia Reserve? Thanks again. Ken
quote:Originally posted by steamburner
Bert, Thank you for dating my gun, there is no PCM arrow on the side, does that mean it is not from the Pacific Coast Militia Reserve? Thanks again. Ken
Ken,
You are quite welcome[:)].
By the year 1938, all Winchester Model 94s were Carbines (the Sporting Rifle was discontinued in December of 1937).
If your Carbine does dot have a broad arrow stamp on the left side of the receiver and butt stock, it is a not a PCMR gun.
Comments
I spoke with Russ, and he confirmed that Paul V. got the rifle for you.
WACA Historian & Life Member
Bert, I'm going to look at another 94 that came from Cody. ser#400K has supposed factory engraved and matted barrel 3X wood. Paul said if it was letterable would be 6 fig apparently is that good. I'll let you know
Kyle,
I will need to see very clear close-up pictures of it to properly assess it.
WACA Historian & Life Member
Nothing real pressing tonight so while on a cleaning mission I recorded all info pertinent to your inquiry.
Oldest first.
782769/ .30 W.C.F. / carbine style butt pl / type 4 / not drilled for Peep / 6. none marked
nickel steel / has saddle ring (and leather strap even)
1,633,154 / mod. 94 .30 W.C.F. / not known (customized) / none (customized) / not drilled
6. not mkd / proof steel / no saddle ring / milled bbl band
2,386,436 / mod. 94 30-30 Win. / chkd stl / no tang mkg / drilled for peep / prf stl / no saddle ring
2,474,484 / mod. 94 30-30 Win. / chkd stl / drilled for peep / prf stl / no saddle ring
2,558,376 / mod. 94 30-30 Win. / chkd stl / drilled for peep / prf stl / no saddle ring
Happy Trails
Hey Bert,
Nothing real pressing tonight so while on a cleaning mission I recorded all info pertinent to your inquiry.
Oldest first.
782769/ .30 W.C.F. / carbine style butt pl / type 4 / not drilled for Peep / 6. none marked
nickel steel / has saddle ring (and leather strap even)
1,633,154 / mod. 94 .30 W.C.F. / not known (customized) / none (customized) / not drilled
6. not mkd / proof steel / no saddle ring / milled bbl band
2,386,436 / mod. 94 30-30 Win. / chkd stl / no tang mkg / drilled for peep / prf stl / no saddle ring
2,474,484 / mod. 94 30-30 Win. / chkd stl / drilled for peep / prf stl / no saddle ring
2,558,376 / mod. 94 30-30 Win. / chkd stl / drilled for peep / prf stl / no saddle ring
Happy Trails
Hello Hawkeye,
Thank you very much for participating in my survey... every single one of them suveyed helps to fill in the giant puzzle.
1. Per the PRSRB, serial 782769 is a June 1915 vintage SRC.
2. Serial 1663154 is an early 1950 vintage standard Carbine. It would be very interesting to know if it has a "49" marked barrel or a "50" marked barrel.
3. Serial 2386436 is a late 1959 production Carbine
4. Serial 2474484 is a mid year 1961 production Carbine.
5. Serial 2558376 is a latter half of the year 1962 production Carbine.
I do not have verifiable records for the later made Model 94s, so the information I have given to you is my best estimate.
WACA Historian & Life Member
Where would I look for the 49 or 50 mark for carbine # 2? Hope it isn't engraved over.
Here are a couple pics of gun in question. My fil did the engraving. It was his personal '94. He was self taught. There wasn't much he didn't do. Engraving, scrimshaw, knifemaking, stockbuilding, ivory carving. He was an amazing person.
It appears that your father in-law was a talented fellow.
The 2-digit date stamp is on the bottom of the barrel (under the forend stock & magazine tube). It looks like this...
WACA Historian & Life Member
quote:
Originally posted by kylew
Bert, First- Yes it has a type 7 tang mark. As far as the "War" guns go I have a couple from the WW1 years a couple from Korea and one from Vietnam years. Since WW2 generally is thought to have started on 8 Dec. 41 and ended on 9 Sept 45. I have kinda figured that the range would be from 1,305,000 to 1,345,000. Isn't 40,000 about the right number produced? And wasn't most of these made for the civilian guards- the one who watched our coasts for U boats and Japanese subs? I have read that these civilians were to shoot at any periscope spotted off the coast. I do know that the Japanese had big plans to launch chemical weapons on Washington DC and NYC. They had built several subs that carried 3 planes each the I-400 and I-401 were a couple of these. They were in route to the East coast when we bombed Japan. Kyle
Hello Kyle,
Given the time period you specify, the serial range you want to search for is 1303818 - 1343510 (December 1st, 1942 - September 28th, 1945).
Yes, 40,000 is very close to the number made during WW II, but very few of them were made for, or used by, civilian guard units. The only known WW II Model 94s that were specifically made for such use were the 2,500 that were ordered and delivered to the Pacific Coast Militia Rangers (P.C.M.R.) in the Candian Province of British Columbia. Those guns were all made and delivered in 1942 (serial number range 1317167 - 1342533).
During the WW II years, the bulk of the 40,000 guns were made in 1942 (29,882). That said, 1943 was the only year in which there was a Zero production number. In 1944, just (13) were made, all in November. Regular production resumed in June of 1945 at serial number 1343197, and ended with serial number 1352066 on December 29th, 1945
i was reading this post and i just wanted to know what the serial # would have been for the 13 made in 1944
and is it possible to find 1 of the 13 or are they all own by collectors
p.s
really find all this info very interesting keep it up Bert
thanks
i was reading this post and i just wanted to know what the serial # would have been for the 13 made in 1944 and is it possible to find 1 of the 13 or are they all own by collectors
p.s really find all this info very interesting keep it up Bert
thanks
Hello,
The (13) serial numbers that were manufactured in 1944 are 1343184 - 1343196. However, not all of them were Model 94s. In fact, of the (13) serial numbers, I suspect that most of them were Model 64s. The reason for my suspicion is that I have found just one of the (13) 1944 made serial numbers, and it is a Model 64 Deer Rifle. Keep in mind that the Model 64 was serial numbered entirely within the Model 94 sequence.
I have no idea who owns the one I found (it was in an auction listing), and I doubt very much that the other (12) are locked up in collections... more than likely they are simply in someone's gun cabinet.
WACA Historian & Life Member
I have a model 94 serial # 2596926. What year was this made? Previous owner had installed a side mounted scope would this affect the value much?
Your Model 94 was made in early 1963, just before Winchester retooled and began manufacturing the new (not improved) version.
Yes, most definitely the side mounted scope affects the value... quite negatively. In fact, it permanently destroys any "collector" value, and relegates it to being nothing more than a "shooter" grade gun.
WACA Historian & Life Member
serial # 1017279
32 W.S.
Traditional curved steel butt plate
Type 5 upper tang
Not drilled & tapped
No special markings
Nickel steel barrel
Has sadle ring
I was wondering the DOM of it I'm a 3rd generation owner of it and plan to pass it down to the 4th generation when I go. Thanks
I have a model 94 for you.
serial # 1017279
32 W.S.
Traditional curved steel butt plate
Type 5 upper tang
Not drilled & tapped
No special markings
Nickel steel barrel
Has sadle ring
I was wondering the DOM of it I'm a 3rd generation owner of it and plan to pass it down to the 4th generation when I go. Thanks
Hello and thank you for posting[:)].
Your Model 94 SRC was manufactured on February 24th, 1928, and it is completely standard.
WACA Historian & Life Member
i have one model 94 that fits your criteria, its serial number 1797256 has "MODEL 94 30-30 Win" on the barrel checkered metal buttplate. And if you could help me on these two it would be greatly appreciated. Winchester model 94 .32 W.S. #299476 nickel steel barrel with smokeless rear sight. and the other is a model 94 30-30 #397275 and is a 1/2 oct 1/2 rd bbl. thanks
Your Model 94 is a 1951 vintage standard Carbine.
Serial 299476 is a February 1906 vintage Model 1894, and serial 397275 is a May 1908 vintage Model 1894 Rifle.
WACA Historian & Life Member
I have a 94 #2307701, checkered butt plate. Can you tell me when it was manufactured?
Also, I wish to purchase a 1931 94 for my father's b-day. Is #1071421 to #1079689 the correct range?
Thanks so much for your help,
Pat
Bert,
I have a 94 #2307701, checkered butt plate. Can you tell me when it was manufactured?
Also, I wish to purchase a 1931 94 for my father's b-day. Is #1071421 to #1079689 the correct range?
Thanks so much for your help,
Pat
Hello Pat,
Serial 2307701 is a 1958 vintage Model 94 (approximately July/August). What caliber is it?
Yes, you have the correct serial number range for the year 1931.
WACA Historian & Life Member
Thanks again for your help,
Pat
Re: Winchester 94 #2307701 - it has 30 -30 WIN and proof steel stamped.
Thanks again for your help,
Pat
Thank you, and you are quite welcome[:)].
WACA Historian & Life Member
thanks,
manuel
hey bert got another one for you, serial #872751 checkered buttplate and and a 3/4 mag. whats your take on this one?
thanks,
manuel
Not enough information to formulate an accurate assesment. Is it a Rifle or a Carbine? If a Carbine, does it have a saddle ring? Caliber? Barrel length?
If you can, please post a few pictures.
WACA Historian & Life Member
sorry i didn't put more info, kinda excited with the find and price! its a 30-30 carbine, no saddle ring oh and i made a mistake its a 2/3 mag. I'm pretty sure its standard carbine barrel length as i had it next to a .32 ws carbine and it was teh same length. Sorry if its kinda vague I'm going off of memory as i have to wait 10 days to pick up.[:(] I will definitely post pics when i have the gun in hand.
I will look forward to seeing the pictures.
WACA Historian & Life Member
I found a 1931 Winchester 94 with a gunsight I am not sure is original. It is pictured below. Could you take a look and tell me what you think?
Thanks,
Pat
Bert,
I found a 1931 Winchester 94 with a gunsight I am not sure is original. It is pictured below. Could you take a look and tell me what you think?
Thanks,
Pat
Most definitely not a factory original rear sight. What is the serial number on this Carbine?
WACA Historian & Life Member
1074530
What year did they switch from the "checkered" hammer to the serrated(lined)hammer? I saw a flat band 30-30 with the checkered hammer the other day and I was wondering if it was original or not. I didn't get the serial number, I'll have to check it out again.
Jon
Bert,
What year did they switch from the "checkered" hammer to the serrated(lined)hammer? I saw a flat band 30-30 with the checkered hammer the other day and I was wondering if it was original or not. I didn't get the serial number, I'll have to check it out again.
Jon
Hello Jon,
Circa 1946. The early Flat-band carbines may be found with the old style hammer.
WACA Historian & Life Member
I have been reading some of these post dating back a few years. If you are still researching, I have a S/N 1336130 handed down to me from my Dad. It is marked Model 94-30 W.C.F.- Serrated butt plate,Tang #7, Milled band,let me know if you want pictures. What year? and why are some people afraid to post S/n?
Bert,
I have been reading some of these post dating back a few years. If you are still researching, I have a S/N 1336130 handed down to me from my Dad. It is marked Model 94-30 W.C.F.- Serrated butt plate,Tang #7, Milled band,let me know if you want pictures. What year? and why are some people afraid to post S/n?
Hello,
Yes, I am still researching, and thank you very much for sharing the information on your Model 94 Carbine.
Serial number 1336130 was manufactured on June 3rd, 1942.
Most of the Model 94s that I have surveyed in that serial number range are PCMR (Pacific Coast Militia Ranger) Carbines. By chance does your Carbine have a broad arrow marking on the left front side of the receiver frame?
In regards to your question about why some people are afraid to post a serial number, it is my opinion that they suffer from ignorant paranioa.
WACA Historian & Life Member
steamburner, you can always trust Bert. I knew as soon as I posted I was wrong and 42 was the correct year. Are you looking to sell or just after info. I assume it's a carbine or is it perhaps a rifle?
Good question Kyle, it's a lever action,looks like a rifle, what makes it a carbine? I have to visit the local gun shop first to have the scope removed and hopefully restore the value that Bert indicated the scope removed. Yes I think I will sell it. The wife hates guns in the house and my hunting days are past. Thanks, Ken
Bert, Thank you for dating my gun, there is no PCM arrow on the side, does that mean it is not from the Pacific Coast Militia Reserve? Thanks again. Ken
Ken,
You are quite welcome[:)].
By the year 1938, all Winchester Model 94s were Carbines (the Sporting Rifle was discontinued in December of 1937).
If your Carbine does dot have a broad arrow stamp on the left side of the receiver and butt stock, it is a not a PCMR gun.
WACA Historian & Life Member
hey there bert i sent you an email to win1885 with those pics of my 94 carbine half mag.
I received them and replied to you.
WACA Historian & Life Member