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2gun: I recognize another valuable addition to this forum.
When guns were invented everything changed. For the first time in the history of the world a frail woman had a chance to sucessfully defend herself and home. My dream is that one of the anti-gun nuts will need a gun for defense and be unable to have one because of their own actions.
And I cannot wait for the next writing gunphreak.....2gun,I understand where you r coming from,and if you are younger...well thats not your fault[:D].Still ,It isn't getting better,we may now have gained right to carry,but are dealing with the so called "Patriot Act".And yes we can know "dissappear "In the night ,thanks to Patriot one.....as we change that one,Patriot 2 is still out there..........
dont get me wrong, i cant see any place where we could be more free and i see the excesses of the patriot act.
now if mr ashcroft would protect our borders by putting up fences and promptly returning any illegals at the expense of their goverment requiring no benefits or subsidies to legal immigrants for 5 years(cant hack it here ,go home)we would rapidly find the situation getting better.if mexicans and chinese can wadce across our border al-qaida can too.
now i have said this before about giving up my guns,i wont, period. i will not shoot it out with the feds if that awful day were to come because i find it a wasteful death. they will not however find my guns at that time when i walk peacefully out, they will be well hidden. i will do a great job being the prisoner of consience and i think it is a far more realistic approach than dying of lead poisoning without hope.
longhunter look up the state of civil liberties during ww1 in this country. we had a sedition act which made the patriot act look easy. you could have been arrested for saying anything that was reported as being against anything to do with u.s and?or the war.
btw i heard on the news this morning that in queens ny some kids found a sam missle and turned it in to the police. turned out the kids down the block were playing with the launcher which the police also confiscated. i think i'm travelling by car for a while.
Fantastic post, I've always wanted to post some of the things you did but I will admit I was afraid folks on here would want me hung by my !@#!. Thanks a bunch for posting that!!! I love it when someone tells the truth and does it in a way that makes sense. I could never do that.
2GUN, I had forgotton the sedition act.Wonder if it's still in effect? NAAAWWW!! They would have to arrest all the media and all the demokrat hopefuls. Just wishful thinking.
if i remember the histoey channel stuff the supreme court ruled it unconstitutional after the war was over same as the did for the civil war act that suspended habeas corpus. i think there was some act also during ww2 that was ruled unconstitutional afterward as well. it seems that because we value our freedoms we have no real plan for how t deal with a crisis and we end up with lawmakers that react to the situation and let the courts sort it out later.
the patriot act may be gutted within a few years by the one group with enough money and lawyers who never can leave well enough alone and in this case politics really does make strange bedfellows. whom i talking about? the ACLU of course. well we will seee where it all goes.
Always when a law or ACT as big as "The Patriot Act" is gutted,little bits are left...small hacks at our rights that will NEVER be returned,they have been adding up for some time now.When will the dam break?
It is now the early 1980's, and we now have enacted many new acts and instituted new bureauRAT offices as a result of the Middle East conflict. Already, we have seen several assassinations, and the Secret Service is created to protect presidents and other "important" figures from assassins. Remember Kent State, any of you? Well, this was the first, what I would call 'major'", infraction of a military force overstepping its bounds to "ensure the peace". That all came to a head when Hinckley attempted to assassinate President Reagan, and Jim Brady, one of those wounded by the gunman, and his wretched wife Sarah, began the first "crusade" (sic) to "make our country gun free and safe". This feral approach led to an Akt that banned the manufacture of select-fire weapons to the public, passed in 1986, surprisingly, by a Republican-led administration, but while led by the acting president, George Bush the Elder. Finally, the true colors of the Republican Party has shown through. This country had also seen the onset of the plague, set upon us in the form of Human Immunodeficiency Virus, a disease that has proven 100% untreatable, and 100% lethal. (It should be no coincidence that its method of transmission is generally by sinful methods, and unfortunately has been spread to many by blood transfusions) By this time, also, we are seeing a rash of illegal aliens invading from the south. In the meantime, a new problem is in its infancy, right under our noses and we can't see it. Our children have been indoctrinated by liberal teachers. This could be the most problematic thing we have to undo, because they have been implanted mediocrity as a norm, and this has proven to be the ripping of the heart from Americans. Now, more than ever, they have been given information on topics that have no relevance, or are censored and taught by socialist teachers, and lowered the standards to make us appear smarter than ever, while those who know can see the deception. The BATFags assume a new role, no longer collectors of taxes (which in all seriousness are ones who should be tarred, feathered and run out on a rail by citizens of the US, even now) have become the Bureau of Jack Booted Thugs.... the Gestapo. Under the first Bush Administration, a ban on certain imported weapons has been passed, thereby verifying the true colors of the Republikans. Now, enter the 1990's, and all hell breaks loose. The gun kontrol lobbyists have managed to sneak several freedom-stealing Akts through (though with a watchful eye, as many Demonkrats learned in November of 1994 as they lost their seats), and NAFTA has made its presence known. WACO and Ruby Ridge occur, making Kent State look like an accidental shooting. Hollywood has turned on the people in general, and we, like the fools that we are, fall for their unchecked lies and misinformation as if it was truth, without even questioning what we see. The President, William the liar, makes a mockery of our country, but never pays for it the way he should, other than being disbarred (as if that was true punishment), and in the meantime, he is ignoring every single terrorist attack made during his Era.
Then, to make a long story short, a wake up call occured. At 0851 EST, 11 SEP 2001, four airliners are highjacked and inevitably crashed into the World Trade Center and the Pentagon, killing over 3000 Americans and leveling symbols of American "Strength" and power. The most bitter irony of this is that this proported "strength" showed just how weak we, as a people, have become. Unfortunately, many people did not learn the right lesson, and have since become even more dependent of the feds to protect their miserable hides from the enemy. But judging by the numbers of gun sales, despite parasitic lawsuits made specifically to liquidate the business, a huge number has seen the light....
Only time will tell if we regain the wisdom left by our Founding Fathers. My grandfather has left me with the means to infinite possibilities of unearthing whatever truth I desire, and I was raised by a mother that taught me, above all else to never quit fighting... and I never will!!! As an American, you have the right to squander your birth rights, but never think for one moment, that everyone will follow suit. Should the sleeping dragon awaken, all the high tech crap in the world will not save them from the dragon's breath, and I only hope it is in my time, so that my daughter may know peace.
Death to Tyrants!!!
Lev 26:14-39
Remember how many seats were lost after AWB passage? Vae victis!
Those who would offer any interpretation that would relegate Amendment II to "relic" status of a bygone era are blatantly stating that the remainder of the Bill of Rights isn't worth a damn, either.
Greetings in the name of The Lord.
Gunphreak, you have a firm grasp of history and the 'Machivellianacians' of this world. Here are some excellent resources for those who have eyes to see and ears to hear: www.radioliberty.com (Dr. Stan Monteith's "Brotherhood of Darkness" covers this all pretty well) www.prisonplanet.com, www.libertygunrights.com, www.iotconline.com . Has anyone researched CONgressman Ron Paul's articles? You'll want to read "Neo-Conned".
There is a deliberate, concerted effort by the globalists (satanists) to enslave the world. When you look on the back of the one dollar bill (designed in 1933), you will see 'The Great Seal'. At the bottom of the pyramid, amidst the 'all-seeing eye of Horus'and other esoteric satanic masonic symbolism, you will find the Roman numerals which translated reads 1776. This does not recognize the year of Our Lord 1776 as the year of Declaration of Independence, but as the year of the founding of The Illuminati in Bavaria! The official Congressional investigation of 1824 confirms that there is a conspiracy to overthrow ALL governemtns of the world. In fact, when the messenger was sent to deliver the Illuminati's plan to other co-conspirators, he was struck dead by lightning. The plan was recovered and read by various governments in Europe, but it was dismissed out of hand as "ridiculous" and "doomed to fail".Don't laugh, I am getting proof. In addition, there was a California Senate investigating committee in the mid-fifties that verifies this as well. The Supreme Court was stacked with Masons for over 40 years, beginning in the 30's. That's when God was taken out of the schools, when the abortion ruling was made, etc. Now you must understand, that it's not the Masons, or the Demokrats, Republikans,Liberals, the Illuminati, Hitler,FDT, Stalin, Margaret *, Clinton, Bushkrieg ad nauseum that we should be aiming at. That's playing into the trap. They were/are seperate entities competing for the same 'prize', namely enslaving the world for satan. This is a Spiritual Battle. Yes, I would like to say I'd go down in the line of duty preserving freedom. But we must fight now, for as Churchill said, (certainly not one of my favorite polytickians); but he did speak the truth when he said, " If you will not fight now against tyranny when there is a glimmer of hope to succeed, then you will fight against it when there is no hope to succeed at all, yet fight you must, for it is better to die a freeman than live as a slave."
By fight, I mean I intend to hold public forums, post flyers, etc. Pray that God will provide a public arena in which to fight. What say ye Pilrim?
Interesting reading folks....but back to the original question. Would you fight on your door steps with gun in hand? As mentioned earlier, you won't see the BATF at your door. Oh no, they will be back at the command post drinking coffee and counting the guns that the local law enforcement officers were ordered to go out and pick up. With that in mind, do you really think you would fight. Are you willing to end the life of that deputy that you may have gone to school with, that small town police officer thats married to your wife's best friend, or that officer that may have helped you out at some time or another. Fact is, you probably can't even honestly answer the question. Most of the population have spent their life keeping the muzzle pointed in a safe direction and punching holes in cardboard and have never put the sights on another human with the intent to follow thru. Do you even have the slightest clue. Have you ever seen the smoke roll from your barrel and heard the empty brass casing bounce across your hardwood floor as you watched an invader drop like a wet dish rag. If you have, then you know what I'm saying. Answering yes to this question is much easier than managing to handle the four pound trigger pull. If I choose to go into a gun fight over my 2nd Ammendment, it won't be on my door steps, maybe theirs.
Since I am a firm believer of "appropriate means of force", this answers why I have so far had the luckiness of not having to point my muzzle at an intruder but one time in my life. He was given a warning, and ran, as most cowards do. He was armed with a crowbar (which I still have), but was scared at the sight of my .45, as most of us here can understand.
Do I have the courage to turn my guns against that deputy who has come to collect my guns, a guy I may have known in high school... well, that's obviously water under the bridge, if he has the courage to come to my door and deny me my rights, even though we knew each other in school. You figure it out....
Death to Tyrants!!!
Lev 26:14-39
Remember how many seats were lost after AWB passage? Vae victis!
Those who would offer any interpretation that would relegate Amendment II to "relic" status of a bygone era are blatantly stating that the remainder of the Bill of Rights isn't worth a damn, either.
Well, it's not for me to figure out....just you. What you do at your own door steps is your business. But if you met that deputy at your door to fight with gun in hand you will lose. Eventually, you will lose. I know the next thought in everyone's head is, "well some things are worth fighting for". I agree with that as long as you are fighting smart. Sending one in the direction of a cop is just suicide on your part. You would have already lost your 2nd Ammendment, now you lose your life and your family loses you. There are other means of keeping your arms, you just have to be a little creative. They will not get all my guns, but I will not shoot down a cop at my door. Our best option is to continue the fight to keep our 2nd Ammendment rights, not fighting the cop after we have already lost them. As for your intruder, lucky guy, he choose his victim well.
quote:Originally posted by 3gunner
Well, it's not for me to figure out....just you. What you do at your own door steps is your business. But if you met that deputy at your door to fight with gun in hand you will lose. Eventually, you will lose. I know the next thought in everyone's head is, "well some things are worth fighting for". I agree with that as long as you are fighting smart. Sending one in the direction of a cop is just suicide on your part. You would have already lost your 2nd Ammendment, now you lose your life and your family loses you. There are other means of keeping your arms, you just have to be a little creative. They will not get all my guns, but I will not shoot down a cop at my door. Our best option is to continue the fight to keep our 2nd Ammendment rights, not fighting the cop after we have already lost them. As for your intruder, lucky guy, he choose his victim well.
And this worked for the founders.........for a while....then it stopped working...and they HAD to fight....I prat it NEVER comes to that....I pray that our counrty never has to depend on folks that seemingly put themselves above everthing.Where would we be if this is how those before us believed?Speaking German.?perhaps Japanese????
3guns thanks for the refocus -
I am prepared to defend my home(such as it is), with my life if necessary, against any and all intruders. I couldn't disagree more with one of the first responders who said that such an act (paraphrasing) 'would be an empty sacrifice on my doorstep, (being a prisoner of conscience)'. All I can say is I'm glad some of our Forefathers weren't 'prisoners of conscience'. They were very clear on the matter of personal liberty. They, and their ancestors suffered personally at the hands of tyranny. Sadly, too many people today "feel" they need to "experience something before they can decide whether it's right for them". Santanaya said "Those that forget history are doomed to repeat it".
I highly recommend to anyone who is the least bit fuzzy about what their DUTY is, not what they feel, should study our Nation's history. Concurrently, they should get a copy of "In the Gravest Extreme" by Massad Ayooob. A caveat is in order here. No amount of reading or thinking will EVER prepare one enough for that awful day, should it occur. I have never shot anyone, but I know that if I had to, I would. There can be no hesitation when circumstances force one to the wall, because hesitation means your death, not theirs. Not only your death my friend, but the loss of freedom and subsequent death of others not as well equipped as yourself. You must think beyond yourself and your circumstances in order to comprehend the bigger pictue. Only then can one begin to understand the place of duty and sacrifice for his fellow man. May God have Mercy on America, for She has turned her back on Him. May we return in humility, and honor Him with our lives.
ru4liberty,
I hear you on that and can understand somewhat. I realize that the thought of our 2nd Ammendment being taken away can set a fire under everyone's emotions, including mine. I cherish my rights as much as anyone. However, enlighten me on how gunning down a police officer at my door in front of my wife and kids is "thinking beyond myself and my circumstances". That police officer probably loves his 2nd Ammendment as much as you and I, and did nothing to erase it. But you say he should pay the price? What about his kids? Will you be the one to sit down with them and explain why you had to kill their Dad. What about your own family? Are you "thinking beyond youself" or just "about yourself"? If your plan is in fact to gun down that officer, what plans do you have for all of the law makers of our country. You know, the ones that really took away your right to own a gun. Will you let them get away scott free. If there is a bigger picture there, I guess I'm not seeing it yet. As for understanding my "place of duty", suppose I and every other pro 2nd Ammendment advocate guns down a officer on their doorsteps. Where does that leave us, what have we accomplished, other than eliminate all of the advocates. Of course, maybe you will be remembered as someone who paid the ultimate sacrifice for something they believed in. You could have a replica of your favorite gun engraved on your headstone with the words, "You didn't get this one". If that is what is important to you, so be it. I am fully aware of my nations history and what our forefathers have given and lost. I also know that the year now is 2003. Things have changed and times are different. We don't fight our battles the way we use to. Our U.S. Military is fully aware of our nations past but is smart enough to change their course of action and tactics to ensure a victory. You can learn from our forefathers but you must be willing to advance. Don't get me wrong here, I'm willing to pay the ultimate price on certain things, you hurt my wife, you hurt my kids, you enter my home with any intent to harm, etc.etc.etc., may God bless your soul. I will fight to keep my guns through support, letters, and in the voting booth. If I still lose, I will continue to fight. I will never give up or give in, but, I will not shoot the first police officer that knocks on my door. Not trying to start an argument with you on this one, just expressing another point of view, you know that other right you and I have.
3gunner- I think we agree on most points.
Let's see, first off, this was a hypothetical question in the first place. IF they kicked your door down, IF someone was pointing a gun in your face.. etc.; I was trying to restrict my thoughts to that specific circumstance. My response to ANYONE forcibly entering my home is responding with due force. WE agree there.
Now there are LOTS of instances of Jackbooted DEA, FBI, (etc.) agents kicking in the doors of innocent people in Amerika! There are several people that I know of who have died at the hands of these thugs. Look what happened at Waco, my God, have you looked at the pictures of the victims? Not one of the perpetrators is in jail. (First Blood). To think that these are "acceptable casualties in the war on (fill in the blank) is outrageous. That is Communist logic plain and simple.
There is a very clear intent by some of those in power to seize America for themselves. They call us "sheeple". They are Satanic. They manipulate "useful idiots" to play figureheads, pawns, talk show hosts, change agents and the like. It's all designed to shape our reality. Truth is truth and the tyranny of 200 years past is the same today; it has perhaps changed in form, but not in substance.
Of course if a "law" is passed that says "We're coming to take your guns away,hee hee ho ho to the funny farm.." I admit that it would be pretty silly of me to say, "Come n' gettum coppers!"
As far as facing a fallen officer's family, I'd most certainly be dead as well. I'm not trying to be flippant, I'm just looking at the reality of SWAT response.
I have to ask, how long can an officer,(or Judge for that matter) sworn to take an oath to uphold and defend the Constitution, look the other way? You know the "I was only following orders" excuse didn't cut it in Nuremburg, and it cannot be tolerated in America. People who take the oath must be held accountable. That's a huge problem in this country, because we're all made to believe we're ignorant victims (but,ignorance is no excuse of the law).
If you're asking me if I would be remorseful, if I was still alive, yes of course I would be. I would weep for the family, and I would weep for the fallen country that God had given us, and we failed to protect.
If you look at my first posting,you'll find that's why I am most fervent about the urgency of fighting NOW! We have to take the bull by the horns and start the process of de-programming as many people as possible. That's why I posted the link to IOTC - The Institute of the Constitution. You can start small groups and learn while teaching. It is working extremely well. The bottom line is virtually everyone is running scared right now. That is to our advantage, because it's a way to open the door to discussion. Again, "My people die for lack of knowledge..." By the way, does anyone see that big grey curtain of semantics covering the frog that is about to boil, and does the frog know that he has been empowered to turn off the heat?
This is no time for any of us to be sitting on the sidelines. If we will honor those that have fallen before us, we will have fufilled our obligation to preserve our freedom and our children's freedom.
"I am most fervent about the urgency of fighting NOW! We have to take the bull by the horns and start the process of de-programming as many people as possible."
I agree with you here. Best case scenerio is that none us ever see that officer at our door. Thanks for the response and good discussion. Now, lets all go get a handfull of horns......
If the officer coming to your door to take your weapons, believed in what this great country was founded on, he WOULD NOT BE at your door. "I was just following orders" does not cut it. There comes a time when orders are so wrong, they need not be followed. Any man with convictions and a backbone, always has the option, of just saying, "NO."
A man has to make a stand at some point. If he has done EVERYTHING that he possibly can do, to prevent this from happening, by writing his representatives, getting his friends involved, voting on EVERY election, donating money, etc. and still he looses the battle? Each man has to decide for himself, when to draw the line in the sand, and what happens if "they" cross the line.
quote:Originally posted by pickenup
If the officer coming to your door to take your weapons, believed in what this great country was founded on, he WOULD NOT BE at your door. "I was just following orders" does not cut it. There comes a time when orders are so wrong, they need not be followed. Any man with convictions and a backbone, always has the option, of just saying, "NO."
A man has to make a stand at some point. If he has done EVERYTHING that he possibly can do, to prevent this from happening, by writing his representatives, getting his friends involved, voting on EVERY election, donating money, etc. and still he looses the battle? Each man has to decide for himself, when to draw the line in the sand, and what happens if "they" cross the line.
If I know I'm going to die, they're coming with me!!!!
Death to Tyrants!!!
Lev 26:14-39
Remember how many seats were lost after AWB passage? Vae victis!
Those who would offer any interpretation that would relegate Amendment II to "relic" status of a bygone era are blatantly stating that the remainder of the Bill of Rights isn't worth a damn, either.
quote:Originally posted by gunphreak
If I know I'm going to die, they're coming with me!!!!
Death to Tyrants!!!
Lev 26:14-39
Remember how many seats were lost after AWB passage? Vae victis!
Those who would offer any interpretation that would relegate Amendment II to "relic" status of a bygone era are blatantly stating that the remainder of the Bill of Rights isn't worth a damn, either.
quote:Originally posted by pickenup
If the officer coming to your door to take your weapons, believed in what this great country was founded on, he WOULD NOT BE at your door. "I was just following orders" does not cut it. There comes a time when orders are so wrong, they need not be followed. Any man with convictions and a backbone, always has the option, of just saying, "NO."
A man has to make a stand at some point. If he has done EVERYTHING that he possibly can do, to prevent this from happening, by writing his representatives, getting his friends involved, voting on EVERY election, donating money, etc. and still he looses the battle? Each man has to decide for himself, when to draw the line in the sand, and what happens if "they" cross the line.
P.S. I still believe it will not come to that.
I'd be suprised if it DOESN'T come to that... Just look at what they did to Judge Moore in Alabama. That was almost exactly the arguement he made, based on the text of the US and Alabama Constitutions, and they found ways to get him out AND make him look bad in the process...
they will not take the guns it would be a waste of time they will shut down the ranges,tax the ammo at 1000%, and ban the transfer of firearms even to your children.this way everyone will get used to the idea and the next generation wiont give them a hard time about it.
why would they do it like that? well lets face it some of us rather than be sensible and fight in the courts and elect politicions who agree with us would rather commit suicide on their doorstep in front of their families against overwhelming firepower and they would want to ban guns in this country of (90million)guns as quietly as possible. as we speak there are those who are banning classes of guns based on looks or insane safety proceedures they are having much more success that way than frontally assaulting all gun ownership. so they will allow you to have 25 rds to hunt if you have a permit for that year and that rifle is registered. if you have supposedly committed a crime then the swat teams will come to your door. i used the word supposedly because our politicions are creating new crimes everyday so the guns can be taken away from felons or additional charges filed if they catch them.
if you fight and commit suicide by cop on your front porch you'll just be another crazed guntoting wacko wasted by the cops to save your neighbors from your deadly plans. thats about all you'll get. you want to fight a war, fight it now while you have a chance with getting the right people elected and into the courts.
judge moore was a sitting judge and just as he expected his orders to be followed when he issued a judgement whether other people agreed or disagreed with it, so too does a judge sitting on a higher court feel. if he wanted to preach to the masses on the basis of moral law he should have become a mininster or a professor. to prove my point if the court of appeals(highest court) of the state of new york suddenly decided abortion wasnt legal(unlikely)you would all be screaming bloody murder if some lower court judge decided he had an obligation to keep abortion clinics running,higher court be damned.
police officers dont get to choose what laws they will enforce or not anymore than the redcoats had a choice when thir officers had them march on lexington. they dont know or care if you are a felon with firearms and if the law to take them is passed and ratified by the courts when they come ,they will be expecting a fight and loaded for bear. this is not a battle you can win with what we are allowed to have legally now this must be fought with brains not balls and backbone. hide the guns you will not win with them, surrender peacefully all 90 million gunowners and go into courts all over the country and plead the fifth to any questions and demand our rights, if not they can give 90 million no longer taxpaying, no longer working individuals free room and board, and a whole lot of free healthcare at the expense of the state.this would make the cost of the war with iraq seem almost miniscule.
I would fight there is no and a repeat no way I would let them take my gus or my rights away from me I would fight them to the very last on!!!!!!!!!!!!!
2gun: you've got it pretty well figured out. If the govt does come for the guns it would be suicide to try and meet frontal force with your own brand of "frontal" force. Kind of like a lone man fighting an army. There are other and better ways that would extend, or maybe save, your life and continue the fight.
When guns were invented everything changed. For the first time in the history of the world a frail woman had a chance to sucessfully defend herself and home. My dream is that one of the anti-gun nuts will need a gun for defense and be unable to have one because of their own actions.
As 2gun mentioned, the government is smart enough not to come to our homes and demand our arms. (1) they don't have the manpower, (2) it would take years upon years upon years to complete and they know the guns they take today will be replaced tomorrow, and (3) why should they do all the leg work when they can manipulate the laws and rape our constitution and make the largest majority of Americans get rid of their own guns. Ownership limits, ammo. possession limits, no transfers, higher taxes, etc. would be a start for them. There goal would not be to take anything away from us. "Us" being those red blooded Americans that have experienced the freedom of owning a firearm. Kind of like trying to take a steak out of the mouth of a pit bull, after he has a taste of it. Instead, they will work to keep the 2nd Ammendment away from our next generation. If they are at all successful, a pro 2nd Ammendment advocate would be hard to find. Once the "pro" numbers have droped low enough, they go to the constitution with that big eraser. By then who would care.
One thing I have noticed at several IDPA, IPSC, and 3 Gun matches around my State is that the majority of shooters are seasoned. By that I mean not very many new shooters are showing up. I was the youngest shooter at my last match and I was born when Lyndon B. Johnson was President. I know we are all doing the right thing in the voting booth, with our support, our letters and so on, but we also need to be conscious of our next generation's 2nd Ammendment awareness and involvement. Just imagine if every shooter out there introduced some type of shooting short to one new shooter. We could double in size over night. It does not have to be a IDPA type organization ( although they are addictive), just take someone to the range for a little target shooting or skeet shooting. Let's make dang sure they know what the government will be trying to take from them. Somebody has got to be here to continue the fight. I don't know the age of everyone on this forum, but, I'm willing to bet none of us will ever see that officer at our door demanding our guns. Probably would not be such a safe bet for our children or grand children though. I am not fighting for my 2nd Ammendment rights today, rather, the 2nd Ammendments rights for my children tomorrow.
I keep a HK 45 to keep'm out of my house, a Colt M4 to keep'm out of my yard, and my scoped rifle keeps'm out of my zip code!
I'll go along with that, 3gunner. I am preparing for the possibility of bad things today (with longevity to reach out well into the future), and returning the rightful inheritance of the American citizen back to who it truly belongs, including my children.
I take some comfort knowing our fight is an uphill battle, but whether we realize it or not, with far more participants than ever before. This was the outcome from September 11th, 2001, with all its unseen consequences, the federal government (and many state governments) had not forseen.
Before anything of great substance occurs, I believe (especially being triangulated between three cities with ill-repute) that if enough things happen (and here in the state of Ohio, a state without a concealed carry statute... yet) those in my area may be subjected to looters before we are subjected to the Bureau of Jack Booted Thugs or local police (many of the residents here seem to believe that, too). The NW Ohio area also seems plagued by job loss, due to excessive taxes sending businesses South of the Border (We've all been watching this sick drama unfold of nearly a decade).
If there be trouble, let it be in my time, that my children may know peace.
Death to Tyrants!!!
Lev 26:14-39
Remember how many seats were lost after AWB passage? Vae victis!
Those who would offer any interpretation that would relegate Amendment II to "relic" status of a bygone era are blatantly stating that the remainder of the Bill of Rights isn't worth a damn, either.
"Instead, they will work to keep the 2nd Ammendment away from our next generation. If they are at all successful, a pro 2nd Ammendment advocate would be hard to find. Once the "pro" numbers have droped low enough, they go to the constitution with that big eraser. By then who would care"
This is what I fear will happen in the furture, specially with the rapid ubanizing of America. I guess we have do our apart by teaching our kids to carry on the flame.
I am happy to see the realistic, thoughtful, insightful and rational thoughts being expressed here. If this type of thinnking is going on in millions more of our fellow American gun owners maybe there is still hope for us all.
In my case, to try and do more than just talk and maintain a member ship (s) in several national gun rights organizations, I have brought up my 21 yearold daughter to be an avid gun owner and 2nd amendment rights person. And I know she will bring up her children the same way. Plus she has challenged a K.c. Star Newspaper anti-gun editor to go to the range with her and she did and had a great time. Hopefully that editor will not be quite so anti-gun in the future. And in addition my daughter and I have introduece several young people to the fun of shootng firearms. So we do what we can and it is not just for guns. It is because we believe the all governments (fed AND state) should follow the constitution (fed AND state) until and if that constituion is changed. Plus we beleive in limited government power because the more power the govt. has means less power for the citizens.
When guns were invented everything changed. For the first time in the history of the world a frail woman had a chance to sucessfully defend herself and home. My dream is that one of the anti-gun nuts will need a gun for defense and be unable to have one because of their own actions.
quote:Originally posted by tr fox
I am happy to see the realistic, thoughtful, insightful and rational thoughts being expressed here. If this type of thinnking is going on in millions more of our fellow American gun owners maybe there is still hope for us all.
In my case, to try and do more than just talk and maintain a member ship (s) in several national gun rights organizations, I have brought up my 21 yearold daughter to be an avid gun owner and 2nd amendment rights person. And I know she will bring up her children the same way. Plus she has challenged a K.c. Star Newspaper anti-gun editor to go to the range with her and she did and had a great time. Hopefully that editor will not be quite so anti-gun in the future. And in addition my daughter and I have introduece several young people to the fun of shootng firearms. So we do what we can and it is not just for guns. It is because we believe the all governments (fed AND state) should follow the constitution (fed AND state) until and if that constituion is changed. Plus we beleive in limited government power because the more power the govt. has means less power for the citizens.
When guns were invented everything changed. For the first time in the history of the world a frail woman had a chance to sucessfully defend herself and home. My dream is that one of the anti-gun nuts will need a gun for defense and be unable to have one because of their own actions.
AS is tylical of us here at GB,we have wandered completly away from the original question.I like the input as well,lot of good ideas put forth....however I assume that IF they came to YOUR door and asked for YOUR ifrearms...The majority would hand them over.Presumably to fight another day.Not a bad thought at all...we do NO ONE anygood dead,except as martyrs,and you know the powers that be will not let that happen anyhow.It seems they woudn't come to our doors anyhow,that kind of confrontation would cost them too much.Fox I admire what you and yours are doing,your right in there doing all that you can...and if ENOUGH of us were it just might work.Unfortunatly I do not believe that is the case.No I do not advocate giving up...just that we need somehow to light the fire under the butts of our fellow constitutionalists across the country...
I think everyone has expressed their opinion well and that most, if not all, support the letter and spirit of the Constitution. I would like to admonish each of us, including myself, to thoroughly verse himself on It's contents.
Without belaboring this topic any further, I motion that we adjurn to another topic, but before I sign off:
2 gun, I don't want to step too hard on your toes, but you are mistaken in your belief that a federal judge has any jurisdiction over an individuals (or State's) rights as outlined in the First Ammendment.
Under Article III of The Constitution, neither the Supreme Court nor the 'inferior courts as the Congress may from time to time establish' has the authority to deny the freedom of expression to anyone, including a judge.
The judges should not be considered 'bosses' over other judges. The federal judge (appointed by Bush) who ruled against Judge Roy Moore is guilty of malfeasence of duty by making a ruling that is in itself un-Constitutional, and he should be impeached. How can a judge deny someone (or State) his/it's First Ammendment right/s?
Free expression of opinion is essential in a free society, but it is likewise IMPERATIVE that we must be of 'learned opinion', less the Foundation of Truth upon which our country has been built, turn to sand and topple our Republic.
We are constantly being deluged by misinformation either through the media or schools (re-education camps), which tends to lead us to base our beliefs on something other than fact, i.e the notion of "seperation of Church and state".
There is no such language in the Constitution. Article 1 (the First Ammendment) states, "CONGRESS shall make no law expressing the establishment of religion, or PROHIBITING THE FREE EXPRESSION THEREOF.." (emphasis added). First, this is addressing Congress specifically, not any other entity, and secondly, it does not deny a person or state that "God given" right, it guarantees it!!!
We need to stand together and 'check and balance' each other with the civil truth as expressed through the Constitution; it stands alone as 'self-evident' and needs no interpretation. I implore you to read what Thomas Jefferson had to say about the Supreme Court, you'll see what I mean. You'll be unbeatable once you get into what our Forefathers wrote. It is empowering beyond description. Your enemies will wither before you,when you can quote the truth from John Adams or George Washington, I guarantee it. I've watched it happen before my very eyes, and as far as adrenaline rushes go, that beats them all!!!
May we serve in true humility, avoiding the pitfalls of pride.
Great reading..."The history of Liberty is a history of Resistance.The history of Liberty is a history of the Limatation of Governmental Power,not the Increase of it."
Woodrow Wilson,1912
Great nations rise and fall.The people go from bondage to spiritual truth,to great courage,from courage to liberty,from liberty to abundance,from abundance to selfishness,from selfishness to complacency,from complacency tp apathy,from apathy to dependence,fron dependence back again to,,,,bondage.
ru4liberty: I don't know who you are but we need more like you.
When guns were invented everything changed. For the first time in the history of the world a frail woman had a chance to sucessfully defend herself and home. My dream is that one of the anti-gun nuts will need a gun for defense and be unable to have one because of their own actions.
im not as informed as some of you are but without a court system laws are useless and unfortunately justices are people too who will put their beliefs into a law as well as what the original intent was. so i have a simple question or 2. first off why does judge moore have athourity under the law and he appelate judge who told him to take the monument out have none according to you? second, are you saying there is no federal athourity to establish courts? youre 200 years late on that as well as myriad federal police organizations.
the reason why we keep losing on gun issues with politicians is because guns are inherrently uncivilized and as you get a coutry to establish a veneer of civilization push the threats to the side people become weak and dont want to have to deal the truth if the veneer is stripped away.we all recognize that the world ,yes even the usa, is a basically uncivilized place with the ability to fall apartwith something so minor as a blackout. we understand that our security and our families protection cannot be gauranteed by some nameless faceless it of a police organization that will tell us what to do in exchange for that security.
nevertheless there is a large majority, especially in the elites with the most to lose that feel that way, but as elites they wold not be ordered around as much as the average folks.however we still live in a representative republic and in spite all the objestion to the constition not giving certain powers if legislators pass it and courts agree its the law like it or not.if you stop paying income taxes you will go to jail build a machinegun without requesting permission first etc... you get my drift and we comply or dont talk about it. as long as the majority feel safer by having IT protect them we can argue all we want and we will get republicans like arnold, pataki, and bush elected simply because they arre the lesser of 2 evils.
if the govt goes british on us we can win this in the courts not dead at our front doors
The Legislative,Execytive and Judicial Branches are supposed to be seperate.PERIOD.The ONLY job of the judiciary is to enforce(or not) existing laws that were drafted and passed by the other....They are supposed to check and balance each other.....The jusdiciary can in a way help when it comes to certain laws by not enforcing them...this was brought out in Jeffersons writings I believe.Gunphreak I am sure can explain much better than I....
Comments
When guns were invented everything changed. For the first time in the history of the world a frail woman had a chance to sucessfully defend herself and home. My dream is that one of the anti-gun nuts will need a gun for defense and be unable to have one because of their own actions.
now if mr ashcroft would protect our borders by putting up fences and promptly returning any illegals at the expense of their goverment requiring no benefits or subsidies to legal immigrants for 5 years(cant hack it here ,go home)we would rapidly find the situation getting better.if mexicans and chinese can wadce across our border al-qaida can too.
now i have said this before about giving up my guns,i wont, period. i will not shoot it out with the feds if that awful day were to come because i find it a wasteful death. they will not however find my guns at that time when i walk peacefully out, they will be well hidden. i will do a great job being the prisoner of consience and i think it is a far more realistic approach than dying of lead poisoning without hope.
longhunter look up the state of civil liberties during ww1 in this country. we had a sedition act which made the patriot act look easy. you could have been arrested for saying anything that was reported as being against anything to do with u.s and?or the war.
btw i heard on the news this morning that in queens ny some kids found a sam missle and turned it in to the police. turned out the kids down the block were playing with the launcher which the police also confiscated. i think i'm travelling by car for a while.
happiness is a warm gun, preferably preban
Fantastic post, I've always wanted to post some of the things you did but I will admit I was afraid folks on here would want me hung by my !@#!. Thanks a bunch for posting that!!! I love it when someone tells the truth and does it in a way that makes sense. I could never do that.
the patriot act may be gutted within a few years by the one group with enough money and lawyers who never can leave well enough alone and in this case politics really does make strange bedfellows. whom i talking about? the ACLU of course. well we will seee where it all goes.
happiness is a warm gun, preferably preban
It is now the early 1980's, and we now have enacted many new acts and instituted new bureauRAT offices as a result of the Middle East conflict. Already, we have seen several assassinations, and the Secret Service is created to protect presidents and other "important" figures from assassins. Remember Kent State, any of you? Well, this was the first, what I would call 'major'", infraction of a military force overstepping its bounds to "ensure the peace". That all came to a head when Hinckley attempted to assassinate President Reagan, and Jim Brady, one of those wounded by the gunman, and his wretched wife Sarah, began the first "crusade" (sic) to "make our country gun free and safe". This feral approach led to an Akt that banned the manufacture of select-fire weapons to the public, passed in 1986, surprisingly, by a Republican-led administration, but while led by the acting president, George Bush the Elder. Finally, the true colors of the Republican Party has shown through. This country had also seen the onset of the plague, set upon us in the form of Human Immunodeficiency Virus, a disease that has proven 100% untreatable, and 100% lethal. (It should be no coincidence that its method of transmission is generally by sinful methods, and unfortunately has been spread to many by blood transfusions) By this time, also, we are seeing a rash of illegal aliens invading from the south. In the meantime, a new problem is in its infancy, right under our noses and we can't see it. Our children have been indoctrinated by liberal teachers. This could be the most problematic thing we have to undo, because they have been implanted mediocrity as a norm, and this has proven to be the ripping of the heart from Americans. Now, more than ever, they have been given information on topics that have no relevance, or are censored and taught by socialist teachers, and lowered the standards to make us appear smarter than ever, while those who know can see the deception. The BATFags assume a new role, no longer collectors of taxes (which in all seriousness are ones who should be tarred, feathered and run out on a rail by citizens of the US, even now) have become the Bureau of Jack Booted Thugs.... the Gestapo. Under the first Bush Administration, a ban on certain imported weapons has been passed, thereby verifying the true colors of the Republikans. Now, enter the 1990's, and all hell breaks loose. The gun kontrol lobbyists have managed to sneak several freedom-stealing Akts through (though with a watchful eye, as many Demonkrats learned in November of 1994 as they lost their seats), and NAFTA has made its presence known. WACO and Ruby Ridge occur, making Kent State look like an accidental shooting. Hollywood has turned on the people in general, and we, like the fools that we are, fall for their unchecked lies and misinformation as if it was truth, without even questioning what we see. The President, William the liar, makes a mockery of our country, but never pays for it the way he should, other than being disbarred (as if that was true punishment), and in the meantime, he is ignoring every single terrorist attack made during his Era.
Then, to make a long story short, a wake up call occured. At 0851 EST, 11 SEP 2001, four airliners are highjacked and inevitably crashed into the World Trade Center and the Pentagon, killing over 3000 Americans and leveling symbols of American "Strength" and power. The most bitter irony of this is that this proported "strength" showed just how weak we, as a people, have become. Unfortunately, many people did not learn the right lesson, and have since become even more dependent of the feds to protect their miserable hides from the enemy. But judging by the numbers of gun sales, despite parasitic lawsuits made specifically to liquidate the business, a huge number has seen the light....
Only time will tell if we regain the wisdom left by our Founding Fathers. My grandfather has left me with the means to infinite possibilities of unearthing whatever truth I desire, and I was raised by a mother that taught me, above all else to never quit fighting... and I never will!!! As an American, you have the right to squander your birth rights, but never think for one moment, that everyone will follow suit. Should the sleeping dragon awaken, all the high tech crap in the world will not save them from the dragon's breath, and I only hope it is in my time, so that my daughter may know peace.
Death to Tyrants!!!
Lev 26:14-39
Remember how many seats were lost after AWB passage? Vae victis!
Those who would offer any interpretation that would relegate Amendment II to "relic" status of a bygone era are blatantly stating that the remainder of the Bill of Rights isn't worth a damn, either.
Luke 22:36.
Gunphreak, you have a firm grasp of history and the 'Machivellianacians' of this world. Here are some excellent resources for those who have eyes to see and ears to hear: www.radioliberty.com (Dr. Stan Monteith's "Brotherhood of Darkness" covers this all pretty well) www.prisonplanet.com, www.libertygunrights.com, www.iotconline.com . Has anyone researched CONgressman Ron Paul's articles? You'll want to read "Neo-Conned".
There is a deliberate, concerted effort by the globalists (satanists) to enslave the world. When you look on the back of the one dollar bill (designed in 1933), you will see 'The Great Seal'. At the bottom of the pyramid, amidst the 'all-seeing eye of Horus'and other esoteric satanic masonic symbolism, you will find the Roman numerals which translated reads 1776. This does not recognize the year of Our Lord 1776 as the year of Declaration of Independence, but as the year of the founding of The Illuminati in Bavaria! The official Congressional investigation of 1824 confirms that there is a conspiracy to overthrow ALL governemtns of the world. In fact, when the messenger was sent to deliver the Illuminati's plan to other co-conspirators, he was struck dead by lightning. The plan was recovered and read by various governments in Europe, but it was dismissed out of hand as "ridiculous" and "doomed to fail".Don't laugh, I am getting proof. In addition, there was a California Senate investigating committee in the mid-fifties that verifies this as well. The Supreme Court was stacked with Masons for over 40 years, beginning in the 30's. That's when God was taken out of the schools, when the abortion ruling was made, etc. Now you must understand, that it's not the Masons, or the Demokrats, Republikans,Liberals, the Illuminati, Hitler,FDT, Stalin, Margaret *, Clinton, Bushkrieg ad nauseum that we should be aiming at. That's playing into the trap. They were/are seperate entities competing for the same 'prize', namely enslaving the world for satan. This is a Spiritual Battle. Yes, I would like to say I'd go down in the line of duty preserving freedom. But we must fight now, for as Churchill said, (certainly not one of my favorite polytickians); but he did speak the truth when he said, " If you will not fight now against tyranny when there is a glimmer of hope to succeed, then you will fight against it when there is no hope to succeed at all, yet fight you must, for it is better to die a freeman than live as a slave."
By fight, I mean I intend to hold public forums, post flyers, etc. Pray that God will provide a public arena in which to fight. What say ye Pilrim?
Do I have the courage to turn my guns against that deputy who has come to collect my guns, a guy I may have known in high school... well, that's obviously water under the bridge, if he has the courage to come to my door and deny me my rights, even though we knew each other in school. You figure it out....
Death to Tyrants!!!
Lev 26:14-39
Remember how many seats were lost after AWB passage? Vae victis!
Those who would offer any interpretation that would relegate Amendment II to "relic" status of a bygone era are blatantly stating that the remainder of the Bill of Rights isn't worth a damn, either.
Luke 22:36.
Well, it's not for me to figure out....just you. What you do at your own door steps is your business. But if you met that deputy at your door to fight with gun in hand you will lose. Eventually, you will lose. I know the next thought in everyone's head is, "well some things are worth fighting for". I agree with that as long as you are fighting smart. Sending one in the direction of a cop is just suicide on your part. You would have already lost your 2nd Ammendment, now you lose your life and your family loses you. There are other means of keeping your arms, you just have to be a little creative. They will not get all my guns, but I will not shoot down a cop at my door. Our best option is to continue the fight to keep our 2nd Ammendment rights, not fighting the cop after we have already lost them. As for your intruder, lucky guy, he choose his victim well.
And this worked for the founders.........for a while....then it stopped working...and they HAD to fight....I prat it NEVER comes to that....I pray that our counrty never has to depend on folks that seemingly put themselves above everthing.Where would we be if this is how those before us believed?Speaking German.?perhaps Japanese????
I am prepared to defend my home(such as it is), with my life if necessary, against any and all intruders. I couldn't disagree more with one of the first responders who said that such an act (paraphrasing) 'would be an empty sacrifice on my doorstep, (being a prisoner of conscience)'. All I can say is I'm glad some of our Forefathers weren't 'prisoners of conscience'. They were very clear on the matter of personal liberty. They, and their ancestors suffered personally at the hands of tyranny. Sadly, too many people today "feel" they need to "experience something before they can decide whether it's right for them". Santanaya said "Those that forget history are doomed to repeat it".
I highly recommend to anyone who is the least bit fuzzy about what their DUTY is, not what they feel, should study our Nation's history. Concurrently, they should get a copy of "In the Gravest Extreme" by Massad Ayooob. A caveat is in order here. No amount of reading or thinking will EVER prepare one enough for that awful day, should it occur. I have never shot anyone, but I know that if I had to, I would. There can be no hesitation when circumstances force one to the wall, because hesitation means your death, not theirs. Not only your death my friend, but the loss of freedom and subsequent death of others not as well equipped as yourself. You must think beyond yourself and your circumstances in order to comprehend the bigger pictue. Only then can one begin to understand the place of duty and sacrifice for his fellow man. May God have Mercy on America, for She has turned her back on Him. May we return in humility, and honor Him with our lives.
happiness is a warm gun, preferably preban
I hear you on that and can understand somewhat. I realize that the thought of our 2nd Ammendment being taken away can set a fire under everyone's emotions, including mine. I cherish my rights as much as anyone. However, enlighten me on how gunning down a police officer at my door in front of my wife and kids is "thinking beyond myself and my circumstances". That police officer probably loves his 2nd Ammendment as much as you and I, and did nothing to erase it. But you say he should pay the price? What about his kids? Will you be the one to sit down with them and explain why you had to kill their Dad. What about your own family? Are you "thinking beyond youself" or just "about yourself"? If your plan is in fact to gun down that officer, what plans do you have for all of the law makers of our country. You know, the ones that really took away your right to own a gun. Will you let them get away scott free. If there is a bigger picture there, I guess I'm not seeing it yet. As for understanding my "place of duty", suppose I and every other pro 2nd Ammendment advocate guns down a officer on their doorsteps. Where does that leave us, what have we accomplished, other than eliminate all of the advocates. Of course, maybe you will be remembered as someone who paid the ultimate sacrifice for something they believed in. You could have a replica of your favorite gun engraved on your headstone with the words, "You didn't get this one". If that is what is important to you, so be it. I am fully aware of my nations history and what our forefathers have given and lost. I also know that the year now is 2003. Things have changed and times are different. We don't fight our battles the way we use to. Our U.S. Military is fully aware of our nations past but is smart enough to change their course of action and tactics to ensure a victory. You can learn from our forefathers but you must be willing to advance. Don't get me wrong here, I'm willing to pay the ultimate price on certain things, you hurt my wife, you hurt my kids, you enter my home with any intent to harm, etc.etc.etc., may God bless your soul. I will fight to keep my guns through support, letters, and in the voting booth. If I still lose, I will continue to fight. I will never give up or give in, but, I will not shoot the first police officer that knocks on my door. Not trying to start an argument with you on this one, just expressing another point of view, you know that other right you and I have.
Let's see, first off, this was a hypothetical question in the first place. IF they kicked your door down, IF someone was pointing a gun in your face.. etc.; I was trying to restrict my thoughts to that specific circumstance. My response to ANYONE forcibly entering my home is responding with due force. WE agree there.
Now there are LOTS of instances of Jackbooted DEA, FBI, (etc.) agents kicking in the doors of innocent people in Amerika! There are several people that I know of who have died at the hands of these thugs. Look what happened at Waco, my God, have you looked at the pictures of the victims? Not one of the perpetrators is in jail. (First Blood). To think that these are "acceptable casualties in the war on (fill in the blank) is outrageous. That is Communist logic plain and simple.
There is a very clear intent by some of those in power to seize America for themselves. They call us "sheeple". They are Satanic. They manipulate "useful idiots" to play figureheads, pawns, talk show hosts, change agents and the like. It's all designed to shape our reality. Truth is truth and the tyranny of 200 years past is the same today; it has perhaps changed in form, but not in substance.
Of course if a "law" is passed that says "We're coming to take your guns away,hee hee ho ho to the funny farm.." I admit that it would be pretty silly of me to say, "Come n' gettum coppers!"
As far as facing a fallen officer's family, I'd most certainly be dead as well. I'm not trying to be flippant, I'm just looking at the reality of SWAT response.
I have to ask, how long can an officer,(or Judge for that matter) sworn to take an oath to uphold and defend the Constitution, look the other way? You know the "I was only following orders" excuse didn't cut it in Nuremburg, and it cannot be tolerated in America. People who take the oath must be held accountable. That's a huge problem in this country, because we're all made to believe we're ignorant victims (but,ignorance is no excuse of the law).
If you're asking me if I would be remorseful, if I was still alive, yes of course I would be. I would weep for the family, and I would weep for the fallen country that God had given us, and we failed to protect.
If you look at my first posting,you'll find that's why I am most fervent about the urgency of fighting NOW! We have to take the bull by the horns and start the process of de-programming as many people as possible. That's why I posted the link to IOTC - The Institute of the Constitution. You can start small groups and learn while teaching. It is working extremely well. The bottom line is virtually everyone is running scared right now. That is to our advantage, because it's a way to open the door to discussion. Again, "My people die for lack of knowledge..." By the way, does anyone see that big grey curtain of semantics covering the frog that is about to boil, and does the frog know that he has been empowered to turn off the heat?
This is no time for any of us to be sitting on the sidelines. If we will honor those that have fallen before us, we will have fufilled our obligation to preserve our freedom and our children's freedom.
"I am most fervent about the urgency of fighting NOW! We have to take the bull by the horns and start the process of de-programming as many people as possible."
I agree with you here. Best case scenerio is that none us ever see that officer at our door. Thanks for the response and good discussion. Now, lets all go get a handfull of horns......
A man has to make a stand at some point. If he has done EVERYTHING that he possibly can do, to prevent this from happening, by writing his representatives, getting his friends involved, voting on EVERY election, donating money, etc. and still he looses the battle? Each man has to decide for himself, when to draw the line in the sand, and what happens if "they" cross the line.
P.S. I still believe it will not come to that.
The gene pool needs chlorine.
If the officer coming to your door to take your weapons, believed in what this great country was founded on, he WOULD NOT BE at your door. "I was just following orders" does not cut it. There comes a time when orders are so wrong, they need not be followed. Any man with convictions and a backbone, always has the option, of just saying, "NO."
A man has to make a stand at some point. If he has done EVERYTHING that he possibly can do, to prevent this from happening, by writing his representatives, getting his friends involved, voting on EVERY election, donating money, etc. and still he looses the battle? Each man has to decide for himself, when to draw the line in the sand, and what happens if "they" cross the line.
P.S. I still believe it will not come to that.
The gene pool needs chlorine.
WELL SAID!!! HERE!HERE!! L.H.
Death to Tyrants!!!
Lev 26:14-39
Remember how many seats were lost after AWB passage? Vae victis!
Those who would offer any interpretation that would relegate Amendment II to "relic" status of a bygone era are blatantly stating that the remainder of the Bill of Rights isn't worth a damn, either.
Luke 22:36.
If I know I'm going to die, they're coming with me!!!!
Death to Tyrants!!!
Lev 26:14-39
Remember how many seats were lost after AWB passage? Vae victis!
Those who would offer any interpretation that would relegate Amendment II to "relic" status of a bygone era are blatantly stating that the remainder of the Bill of Rights isn't worth a damn, either.
Luke 22:36.
HERE HERE!!!!!!!!!!!
If the officer coming to your door to take your weapons, believed in what this great country was founded on, he WOULD NOT BE at your door. "I was just following orders" does not cut it. There comes a time when orders are so wrong, they need not be followed. Any man with convictions and a backbone, always has the option, of just saying, "NO."
A man has to make a stand at some point. If he has done EVERYTHING that he possibly can do, to prevent this from happening, by writing his representatives, getting his friends involved, voting on EVERY election, donating money, etc. and still he looses the battle? Each man has to decide for himself, when to draw the line in the sand, and what happens if "they" cross the line.
P.S. I still believe it will not come to that.
I'd be suprised if it DOESN'T come to that... Just look at what they did to Judge Moore in Alabama. That was almost exactly the arguement he made, based on the text of the US and Alabama Constitutions, and they found ways to get him out AND make him look bad in the process...
Ryan
why would they do it like that? well lets face it some of us rather than be sensible and fight in the courts and elect politicions who agree with us would rather commit suicide on their doorstep in front of their families against overwhelming firepower and they would want to ban guns in this country of (90million)guns as quietly as possible. as we speak there are those who are banning classes of guns based on looks or insane safety proceedures they are having much more success that way than frontally assaulting all gun ownership. so they will allow you to have 25 rds to hunt if you have a permit for that year and that rifle is registered. if you have supposedly committed a crime then the swat teams will come to your door. i used the word supposedly because our politicions are creating new crimes everyday so the guns can be taken away from felons or additional charges filed if they catch them.
if you fight and commit suicide by cop on your front porch you'll just be another crazed guntoting wacko wasted by the cops to save your neighbors from your deadly plans. thats about all you'll get. you want to fight a war, fight it now while you have a chance with getting the right people elected and into the courts.
judge moore was a sitting judge and just as he expected his orders to be followed when he issued a judgement whether other people agreed or disagreed with it, so too does a judge sitting on a higher court feel. if he wanted to preach to the masses on the basis of moral law he should have become a mininster or a professor. to prove my point if the court of appeals(highest court) of the state of new york suddenly decided abortion wasnt legal(unlikely)you would all be screaming bloody murder if some lower court judge decided he had an obligation to keep abortion clinics running,higher court be damned.
police officers dont get to choose what laws they will enforce or not anymore than the redcoats had a choice when thir officers had them march on lexington. they dont know or care if you are a felon with firearms and if the law to take them is passed and ratified by the courts when they come ,they will be expecting a fight and loaded for bear. this is not a battle you can win with what we are allowed to have legally now this must be fought with brains not balls and backbone. hide the guns you will not win with them, surrender peacefully all 90 million gunowners and go into courts all over the country and plead the fifth to any questions and demand our rights, if not they can give 90 million no longer taxpaying, no longer working individuals free room and board, and a whole lot of free healthcare at the expense of the state.this would make the cost of the war with iraq seem almost miniscule.
happiness is a warm gun, preferably preban
shane
When guns were invented everything changed. For the first time in the history of the world a frail woman had a chance to sucessfully defend herself and home. My dream is that one of the anti-gun nuts will need a gun for defense and be unable to have one because of their own actions.
One thing I have noticed at several IDPA, IPSC, and 3 Gun matches around my State is that the majority of shooters are seasoned. By that I mean not very many new shooters are showing up. I was the youngest shooter at my last match and I was born when Lyndon B. Johnson was President. I know we are all doing the right thing in the voting booth, with our support, our letters and so on, but we also need to be conscious of our next generation's 2nd Ammendment awareness and involvement. Just imagine if every shooter out there introduced some type of shooting short to one new shooter. We could double in size over night. It does not have to be a IDPA type organization ( although they are addictive), just take someone to the range for a little target shooting or skeet shooting. Let's make dang sure they know what the government will be trying to take from them. Somebody has got to be here to continue the fight. I don't know the age of everyone on this forum, but, I'm willing to bet none of us will ever see that officer at our door demanding our guns. Probably would not be such a safe bet for our children or grand children though. I am not fighting for my 2nd Ammendment rights today, rather, the 2nd Ammendments rights for my children tomorrow.
I keep a HK 45 to keep'm out of my house, a Colt M4 to keep'm out of my yard, and my scoped rifle keeps'm out of my zip code!
I take some comfort knowing our fight is an uphill battle, but whether we realize it or not, with far more participants than ever before. This was the outcome from September 11th, 2001, with all its unseen consequences, the federal government (and many state governments) had not forseen.
Before anything of great substance occurs, I believe (especially being triangulated between three cities with ill-repute) that if enough things happen (and here in the state of Ohio, a state without a concealed carry statute... yet) those in my area may be subjected to looters before we are subjected to the Bureau of Jack Booted Thugs or local police (many of the residents here seem to believe that, too). The NW Ohio area also seems plagued by job loss, due to excessive taxes sending businesses South of the Border (We've all been watching this sick drama unfold of nearly a decade).
If there be trouble, let it be in my time, that my children may know peace.
Death to Tyrants!!!
Lev 26:14-39
Remember how many seats were lost after AWB passage? Vae victis!
Those who would offer any interpretation that would relegate Amendment II to "relic" status of a bygone era are blatantly stating that the remainder of the Bill of Rights isn't worth a damn, either.
Luke 22:36.
You are absolutely correct:
"Instead, they will work to keep the 2nd Ammendment away from our next generation. If they are at all successful, a pro 2nd Ammendment advocate would be hard to find. Once the "pro" numbers have droped low enough, they go to the constitution with that big eraser. By then who would care"
This is what I fear will happen in the furture, specially with the rapid ubanizing of America. I guess we have do our apart by teaching our kids to carry on the flame.
-dk
In my case, to try and do more than just talk and maintain a member ship (s) in several national gun rights organizations, I have brought up my 21 yearold daughter to be an avid gun owner and 2nd amendment rights person. And I know she will bring up her children the same way. Plus she has challenged a K.c. Star Newspaper anti-gun editor to go to the range with her and she did and had a great time. Hopefully that editor will not be quite so anti-gun in the future. And in addition my daughter and I have introduece several young people to the fun of shootng firearms. So we do what we can and it is not just for guns. It is because we believe the all governments (fed AND state) should follow the constitution (fed AND state) until and if that constituion is changed. Plus we beleive in limited government power because the more power the govt. has means less power for the citizens.
When guns were invented everything changed. For the first time in the history of the world a frail woman had a chance to sucessfully defend herself and home. My dream is that one of the anti-gun nuts will need a gun for defense and be unable to have one because of their own actions.
I am happy to see the realistic, thoughtful, insightful and rational thoughts being expressed here. If this type of thinnking is going on in millions more of our fellow American gun owners maybe there is still hope for us all.
In my case, to try and do more than just talk and maintain a member ship (s) in several national gun rights organizations, I have brought up my 21 yearold daughter to be an avid gun owner and 2nd amendment rights person. And I know she will bring up her children the same way. Plus she has challenged a K.c. Star Newspaper anti-gun editor to go to the range with her and she did and had a great time. Hopefully that editor will not be quite so anti-gun in the future. And in addition my daughter and I have introduece several young people to the fun of shootng firearms. So we do what we can and it is not just for guns. It is because we believe the all governments (fed AND state) should follow the constitution (fed AND state) until and if that constituion is changed. Plus we beleive in limited government power because the more power the govt. has means less power for the citizens.
When guns were invented everything changed. For the first time in the history of the world a frail woman had a chance to sucessfully defend herself and home. My dream is that one of the anti-gun nuts will need a gun for defense and be unable to have one because of their own actions.
AS is tylical of us here at GB,we have wandered completly away from the original question.I like the input as well,lot of good ideas put forth....however I assume that IF they came to YOUR door and asked for YOUR ifrearms...The majority would hand them over.Presumably to fight another day.Not a bad thought at all...we do NO ONE anygood dead,except as martyrs,and you know the powers that be will not let that happen anyhow.It seems they woudn't come to our doors anyhow,that kind of confrontation would cost them too much.Fox I admire what you and yours are doing,your right in there doing all that you can...and if ENOUGH of us were it just might work.Unfortunatly I do not believe that is the case.No I do not advocate giving up...just that we need somehow to light the fire under the butts of our fellow constitutionalists across the country...
Without belaboring this topic any further, I motion that we adjurn to another topic, but before I sign off:
2 gun, I don't want to step too hard on your toes, but you are mistaken in your belief that a federal judge has any jurisdiction over an individuals (or State's) rights as outlined in the First Ammendment.
Under Article III of The Constitution, neither the Supreme Court nor the 'inferior courts as the Congress may from time to time establish' has the authority to deny the freedom of expression to anyone, including a judge.
The judges should not be considered 'bosses' over other judges. The federal judge (appointed by Bush) who ruled against Judge Roy Moore is guilty of malfeasence of duty by making a ruling that is in itself un-Constitutional, and he should be impeached. How can a judge deny someone (or State) his/it's First Ammendment right/s?
Free expression of opinion is essential in a free society, but it is likewise IMPERATIVE that we must be of 'learned opinion', less the Foundation of Truth upon which our country has been built, turn to sand and topple our Republic.
We are constantly being deluged by misinformation either through the media or schools (re-education camps), which tends to lead us to base our beliefs on something other than fact, i.e the notion of "seperation of Church and state".
There is no such language in the Constitution. Article 1 (the First Ammendment) states, "CONGRESS shall make no law expressing the establishment of religion, or PROHIBITING THE FREE EXPRESSION THEREOF.." (emphasis added). First, this is addressing Congress specifically, not any other entity, and secondly, it does not deny a person or state that "God given" right, it guarantees it!!!
We need to stand together and 'check and balance' each other with the civil truth as expressed through the Constitution; it stands alone as 'self-evident' and needs no interpretation. I implore you to read what Thomas Jefferson had to say about the Supreme Court, you'll see what I mean. You'll be unbeatable once you get into what our Forefathers wrote. It is empowering beyond description. Your enemies will wither before you,when you can quote the truth from John Adams or George Washington, I guarantee it. I've watched it happen before my very eyes, and as far as adrenaline rushes go, that beats them all!!!
May we serve in true humility, avoiding the pitfalls of pride.
Woodrow Wilson,1912
Great nations rise and fall.The people go from bondage to spiritual truth,to great courage,from courage to liberty,from liberty to abundance,from abundance to selfishness,from selfishness to complacency,from complacency tp apathy,from apathy to dependence,fron dependence back again to,,,,bondage.
When guns were invented everything changed. For the first time in the history of the world a frail woman had a chance to sucessfully defend herself and home. My dream is that one of the anti-gun nuts will need a gun for defense and be unable to have one because of their own actions.
the reason why we keep losing on gun issues with politicians is because guns are inherrently uncivilized and as you get a coutry to establish a veneer of civilization push the threats to the side people become weak and dont want to have to deal the truth if the veneer is stripped away.we all recognize that the world ,yes even the usa, is a basically uncivilized place with the ability to fall apartwith something so minor as a blackout. we understand that our security and our families protection cannot be gauranteed by some nameless faceless it of a police organization that will tell us what to do in exchange for that security.
nevertheless there is a large majority, especially in the elites with the most to lose that feel that way, but as elites they wold not be ordered around as much as the average folks.however we still live in a representative republic and in spite all the objestion to the constition not giving certain powers if legislators pass it and courts agree its the law like it or not.if you stop paying income taxes you will go to jail build a machinegun without requesting permission first etc... you get my drift and we comply or dont talk about it. as long as the majority feel safer by having IT protect them we can argue all we want and we will get republicans like arnold, pataki, and bush elected simply because they arre the lesser of 2 evils.
if the govt goes british on us we can win this in the courts not dead at our front doors
happiness is a warm gun, preferably preban